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S04.E14: Alexander Hamilton and the Ruffle Kerfuffle

Neptune

By Neptune
in Ghosts (US)

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Neptune

Neptune

“Alexander Hamilton and the Ruffle Kerfuffle” – When Jay becomes obsessed with the success of a fellow chef, Isaac serves up a cautionary tale about his own rivalry with Alexander Hamilton (Nat Faxon). Also, Elias Woodstone (Matt Walsh) returns from hell with a limited-time offer for the ghosts  Feb 27

WRITTEN BY: John Blickstead and Trey Kolmer

DIRECTED BY: Richie Keen
 

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  • Like 2
shura

shura

(edited)

Ah, now we know who came up with pursuit of happiness…. They should have left it without Pete pointing it out though.

Loved seeing Sam Adams suggesting that beer should be an inalienable right.  See, this is how you do a joke.  You have a Founding Father mention beer, then someone calls him Sam, and that’s it, perfection achieved.  Spelling anything out just ruins it.

Edited by shura
  • Like 16
Annber03

Annber03

..ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, shit, that ending! The gasp I let out, Isaac would've been proud. Oh, dear. Oh, dear, dear, dear. This...promises to get VERY interesting. 

I loved everyone being all protective of Thor when Elias was trying to lure him to hell, and bringing up all the moments when Thor helped them and others out. Hetty referencing her particular history with him was an especially sweet touch. 

As for the main story, oh, my god, Isaac with the original draft of the Declaration XD. I can't. Of cousre he would get fixated on the whole ruffles thing, to absurd levels. 

But awwwwww, John Jay just throwing him under the bus to save face with the others :(. I actually said, "...oh..." at that. And then the fact that Hamilton did actually steal his ruffles on top of it all. Poor Isaac. 

I absolutely love that he finally took the right lesson from his long-running feud with him, though - his message to Jay was genuinely sweet and lovely and spoke volumes about his vow to back off and not get so controlling about the restaurant. I loved seeing him so supportive of Jay. 

And then the "pursuit of happiness" bit! That was a sweet touch as well, and it seems fitting it was Pete who was able to inform him of that detail.

Also, we got to see Beatrice again! Briefly, but still, always nice to see her show up and being supportive of Isaac. Loved this episode, this was so fun. I got a really good laugh out of Samuel Adams suggesting adding beer to the Declaration, as well as Isaac's comment after Sam was like, "And everything worked out well":

"Yes, Samantha, I'm telling you this story because everything worked out." 

 

  • Like 12
phalange

phalange

Isaac’s longstanding hatred of Hamilton makes sense, even if Isaac did bring a lot of it on himself. Like dude, you could’ve waited to find out until after the Declaration was signed. But it was nice Isaac shared the story to convince Jay not to let his obsession get in the way of making a name for himself and in a way, Isaac did contribute to the Declaration even if most people won’t ever know.

I knew Elias just left too easily. Is he supposed to be appearing as he looked when he was alive? If so, he should look familiar to Jay, because Jay has seen a painting of him. 

  • Like 13
PaulE

PaulE

(edited)

This episode was a bit of an emotional roller coaster for me.  At first I felt quite sorry for Isaac--poor guy, he had no luck at all.  Then I was annoyed at his fixation on the ruffle because, you know, that's far more important than contributing to a document that will help decide the fate of the thirteen colonies--once again, Isaac's narcissism wins out.  But then he redeemed himself by realizing he'd fixated over something that, at the end of the day, wasn't important.  I think that's another example of his attempt to improve himself.  And it was nice that he was unselfishly trying to help Jay.

Stealing Isaac's ruffle was a crappy thing to do and I doubt the real Hamilton would've concerned himself with something so petty, but from what I've read he did rub a lot of people the wrong way (Jefferson hated him, and then of course there was Aaron Burr . . .).

So this week it was Thor's turn for a pep talk--seems to be an overarching theme this season, and I like it.  More and more we're seeing the affection they all have for one another.  But what a twist ending with Jay almost signing his soul away!  If there's anyone on the show who doesn't deserve to go to hell, it's sweet, forgiving Jay. 

Edited by PaulE
  • Like 11
Chit Chat

Chit Chat

1 hour ago, shura said:

Loved seeing Sam Adams suggesting that beer should be an inalienable right.  See, this is how you do a joke.  You have a Founding Father mention beer, then someone calls him Sam, and that’s it, perfection achieved.  Spelling anything out just ruins it.

Actually, I didn't get the connection until reading your post!  I don't drink beer and had completely forgotten that Samuel Adams is a beer.  I don't usually see commercials for that beer either.  Duh to me!!  😁

On the one hand, I'm glad that Isaac is now aware of his contribution, but on the other hand, he will probably be an insufferable boor about it!  

  • Like 7
ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse

(edited)
15 hours ago, PaulE said:

So this week it was Thor's turn for a pep talk--seems to be an overarching theme this season, and I like it. 

I was surprised that no one suggested that if Thor committed to eventual Hell, he'd likely be separated from Flower in the after-afterlife.  (She did rob a bank, but is probably not condemned to an eternity of torment.)

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
  • Like 11
shura

shura

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

So Isaac hates Hamilton because he stole his ruffle, but Hamilton seemed like a pretty big jerk even before Isaac discovered that.

Oh, they were all assholes, weren’t they?  Franklin was mean to Isaac for no reason before, even while wanting to use Isaac’s carriage to move furniture, John Jay outfitted Isaac with that swan of a ruffle and then pretended that he had nothing to do with inviting him, Hamilton was all “oh, I thought it was an exclusive party…”  WTF, people?

33 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Then I was annoyed at his fixation on the ruffle because, you know, that's far more important than contributing to a document that will help decide the fate of the thirteen colonies--once again, Isaac's narcissism wins out.  But then he redeemed himself by realizing he'd fixated over something that, at the end of the day, wasn't important.

I don’t know about that.  Being disrespected is not unimportant.

  • Like 5
kathyk2

kathyk2

I liked half of this episode. Isaac is my least favorite character because he is so self absorbed. He never learned the lesson Pete was trying to teach him. I noticed that Isaac wasn't attracted to any of the men in the room I think Nigel was his first crush.  I loved the Thorfinn subplot especially Hetty's kind words. I agree with Trevor that the ghosts are there to improve themselves.

  • Like 4
Annber03

Annber03

36 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

I noticed that Isaac wasn't attracted to any of the men in the room I think Nigel was his first crush. 

He did mention that firend of his, Edward, back in season one - he was talking about how he would've understood if Beatrice had wound up with him after Isaac's death and was like, "Who could blame her - them  - for finding comfort in each other?" 

  • Like 6
Bastet

Bastet

The backstory is so very Isaac.  "We're trying to form a country here" and he's fixated on a ruffle.  I knew he was going to somehow be the source of "pursuit of happiness" and like that he gets that win but is going to be even more insufferable because of it.

I enjoyed the Hamilton references.  And "Yeah, Samantha, I'm telling you the story because everything works out" and, especially, "Did you just gasp at your own reveal?"  But my favorite was Sam Adams suggesting beer as the third unalienable right.

On the Elias front, I loved Trevor's reaction to his description of demonic existence:  "This sounds a lot like my time at Lehman Brothers."

  • Like 15
Snow Apple

Snow Apple

(edited)
8 hours ago, possibilities said:

Fashions sure have changed.

It will come back. Remember all the ruffles of the 80's for both men and women? Especially in glam rock. We are due for another resurgence 🤩

Funny how Hetty calls Sam "Samantha" but she goes by a nickname herself instead of Henrietta. Unless she hates the name because that's what Elias called her.

Speaking of Elias, RUN JAY RUN! Did Elias take over someone's body and that's why Jay didn't recognize him? We see his real face but maybe Jay is seeing some stranger's?

Edited by Snow Apple
spelling
  • Like 7
Annber03

Annber03

1 hour ago, Snow Apple said:

Funny how Hetty calls Sam "Samantha" but she goes by a nickname herself instead of Henrietta. Unless she hates the name because that's what Elias called her.

Both Hetty and Isaac tend to refer to Sam by her full name. I think in their case it's just a general formality thing on their end. Isaac called Hetty "Henrietta" once, and he's probably her closest friend of all the ghosts, so it might be a thing where she's fine with certian people referring to her by her full name, but most people just feel more comfortable calling her "Hetty". 

  • Like 2
chaifan

chaifan

I was not expecting Elias to pop up!  But that was a very fun B plot, and a good use of everyone in one episode.  I loved how everyone demands Jay to "pay attention" to something he can't see or hear.  

At a certain point it seemed like Isaac was dancing around Hamilton (the musical) lines, and I was just waiting for him to say something about "not throwing away my shot", but they never quite got there.  Any other hidden Hamilton (the musical) references in there?

13 hours ago, shura said:

Ah, now we know who came up with pursuit of happiness…. They should have left it without Pete pointing it out though.

I'll disagree with your take on this.  The "joke" was for us when Isaac said it.  We all knew it was coming when Franklin said earlier "life, liberty... I think there needs to be something else."  (paraphrasing here)  The whole point was that Isaac never knew he actually contributed, and I thought the scene with Pete was sweet.  

Maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see, but did anyone else think Sam Adams - you know, the guy who likes beer - looked a little like a certain Supreme Court Justice that also (allegedly) likes beer?  Snarky casting, or just coincidence?  hmmmm....

Interesting to know that Elias can appear anywhere now, and he's not confined to the manor.  And that he can appear in non-ghost form with a different outfit.  That opens up soooooo many more questions...

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Thank goodness Isaac didn't die in that ruffle!  Or with that hair!

Oh, those curls!  Maybe it was a particularly humid day.  Isaac didn't have that curly of hair when he let it all down earlier this season.

Weird observation...  the outside of the barn looks horrible!  I think that's the only outside shot we've had since construction finished.  I know they're going for rustic, but still, I'd be having second thoughts driving up to that place.  

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Chit Chat

Chit Chat

53 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Any other hidden Hamilton (the musical) references in there?

I haven't seen Hamilton, so any references to it went right over my head!! I really need to get out more!  😉

54 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Interesting to know that Elias can appear anywhere now, and he's not confined to the manor.  And that he can appear in non-ghost form with a different outfit.

He is in management now!  He has perks.  😁

55 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Weird observation...  the outside of the barn looks horrible! 

It does!  I noticed it last week when they did a quick shot of it.  Some of the best BBQ places in my area would be considered a 'dive', but hell, they still look a lot better than that!!  Jay's going to have to at least paint it and make it look inviting. 

 

  • Like 4
PaulE

PaulE

12 hours ago, shura said:

I don’t know about that.  Being disrespected is not unimportant.

I agree with you, but I was referring to that particular moment.  I just think that if you've been included in a group of important leaders who are drafting the Declaration of Independence, you ought to focus on that rather than on the ruffle kerfuffle, especially in Isaac's case because he's so desperate to be taken seriously.  When he was called out for his side conversation with Hamilton, I thought of a teacher reprimanding a student for whispering to their neighbor: "Isaac, do you have something you want to say to the class?"

13 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Is it just me or did Isaac's story have a lot of modern slang in it..?

It certainly did, which for me added to the comedy.  There's a Netflix series "The Norsemen," which is about Norwegian Vikings in 790 A.D. (are you listening, Thor?).  Although the actors are Norwegian, it's filmed in English, and they all use modern idioms and refer to modern concepts.  It wouldn't be half as funny as it is if it weren't so anachronistic.

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Funny how Hetty calls Sam "Samantha" but she goes by a nickname herself instead of Henrietta.

It's interesting that Hetty, who's so snobbish and insistent on propriety, wouldn't prefer to be called by her full name, which is more formal.  Of course, upper-class people back then often did have nicknames that would be used only by family and close friends, so if Hetty thinks of the mansion inhabitants as her family now, it makes sense that she'd allow her nickname.  In the opposite direction, I've noticed that while the formal and proper Nigel also uses her nickname, he always calls Pete "Peter," even though no one else does that.

4 hours ago, Snow Apple said:
11 hours ago, possibilities said:

Fashions sure have changed.

It will come back. Remember all the ruffles of the 80's for both men and women?

Not just the 80's.  When I attended my high school senior prom in the 70's, my tuxedo shirt sported a ruffled front and ruffled sleeves.  No young person would have worn today's plain or pleated fronts.  And I blush to admit that, at the time, I thought I looked damn fine.  I think it was the first time since the eighteenth century that men's fashions were as diverse and colorful as women's--bizarre, but colorful.  I don't think I want that fashion era ever to come back!

  • Like 4
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proserpina65

proserpina65

Honestly, I expected more from this episode.  Not that I thought Isaac's feud with Hamilton would be any less petty and unimportant, but that it would be much funnier.  It was amusing at best.

The story with Elias was better and I'd rather have seen more of Hell's MLM/pyramid schemes.

14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

So Isaac hates Hamilton because he stole his ruffle, but Hamilton seemed like a pretty big jerk even before Isaac discovered that.

Is it just me or did Isaac's story have a lot of modern slang in it..?

Maybe.  To me, it had a lot of not funny in it.

13 hours ago, PaulE said:

But what a twist ending with Jay almost signing his soul away!  If there's anyone on the show who doesn't deserve to go to hell, it's sweet, forgiving Jay. 

I actually yelled "Don't do it, Jay!" and was so glad he didn't in the end.

12 hours ago, shura said:

Oh, they were all assholes, weren’t they?  Franklin was mean to Isaac for no reason before, even while wanting to use Isaac’s carriage to move furniture, John Jay outfitted Isaac with that swan of a ruffle and then pretended that he had nothing to do with inviting him, Hamilton was all “oh, I thought it was an exclusive party…”  WTF, people?

I didn't mind that they were assholes.  After all the founding fathers were human, not the idealized gods we heard about in history class.  I just wish I'd found it funnier.

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

On the Elias front, I loved Trevor's reaction to his description of demonic existence:  "This sounds a lot like my time at Lehman Brothers."

That made me laugh out loud.  That, and Trevor's vociferous defense of Tub Thumping.

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Interesting to know that Elias can appear anywhere now, and he's not confined to the manor.  And that he can appear in non-ghost form with a different outfit.  That opens up soooooo many more questions...

It seems to require working in Hell's MLM scheme, though, so . . . 

39 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

I haven't seen Hamilton, so any references to it went right over my head!!

Me neither, and I have no intention of ever doing so.

40 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

Some of the best BBQ places in my area would be considered a 'dive',

According to an article in Southern Living years ago, that's a requirement for the best BBQ places.  That and signs with anthropomorphized pigs.

 

  • Like 6
chaifan

chaifan

12 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Of course, upper-class people back then often did have nicknames that would be used only by family and close friends, so if Hetty thinks of the mansion inhabitants as her family now, it makes sense that she'd allow her nickname.

Any of the ghosts there before Hetty would have picked up on the nickname from hearing her family call her Hetty.  So it makes sense for them to use it.  And then the other ghosts would have picked it up from them.  Or maybe she just really doesn't like "Henrietta".  Who could blame her?

  • Like 7
iMonrey

iMonrey

26 minutes ago, PaulE said:
14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Is it just me or did Isaac's story have a lot of modern slang in it..?

Yes but this was Isaac today, telling the story. So he's telling it using the modern language he uses now.

OMG that spare ruffle John Jay loaned him was a sight to behold. In no universe was he not better off without one. 

Part of me wonders whether all of Isaac's contemporaries suspected his "secret" which is why he was so alienated and disrespected. I mean, even then, it was fairly obvious.

The tag with Jay and Elias was great. I wonder if there will be any followup to it or if it was just a one-time gag.

"I get knocked down" was stuck in my head for a full half hour after this.

  • Like 11
  • LOL 1
ams1001

ams1001

32 minutes ago, PaulE said:

It certainly did, which for me added to the comedy.  There's a Netflix series "The Norsemen," which is about Norwegian Vikings in 790 A.D. (are you listening, Thor?).  Although the actors are Norwegian, it's filmed in English, and they all use modern idioms and refer to modern concepts.  It wouldn't be half as funny as it is if it weren't so anachronistic.

I'll have to check that out; thanks. :)

23 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Honestly, I expected more from this episode.  Not that I thought Isaac's feud with Hamilton would be any less petty and unimportant, but that it would be much funnier.  It was amusing at best.

I was actually just annoyed when Isaac was trying to talk to John Jay while Jefferson was speaking during the meeting. He was acting like a child trying to get mom's attention while she's on the phone.

23 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Me neither, and I have no intention of ever doing so.

I only saw Hamilton because my parents got free Disney+ for a while in 2020 and they asked if I wanted to watch it with them; there wasn't anything else to do to get out of the house, so I went over and we watched while sitting as far apart from each other as possible in the living room. I enjoyed it but I don't have any desire to pay Broadway prices to see it live.

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PaulE

PaulE

37 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Part of me wonders whether all of Isaac's contemporaries suspected his "secret" which is why he was so alienated and disrespected. I mean, even then, it was fairly obvious.

I've always suspected that was the case.  He was a little too flamboyant, even in those days when the standards for masculinity would probably have been less severe than they became.  I think he'd have always had problems with other (straight) men, and unfortunately his personality made things worse.  That's why, although I criticize him a lot, my heart sometimes bleeds for him.

  • Like 5
Jodithgrace

Jodithgrace

It seems odd to me that even in Isaac’s flawed memory, he would have Alexander Hamilton and John  Jay at the signing of the Declaration of Independence when they weren’t involved at all, as far as  I know. I can only assume that they weren’t invited to the actual signing the following week because of their bad behavior. And where was John Hancock? 1776…even though it was a musical, really captures the situation of the signing, and it was not this. A little research wouldn’t hurt, writers. 

I also missed the scene with Elias and Jay. Either my DVR failed to record it or I thought the episode was over when it wasn’t, and deleted it. 

  • Like 3
possibilities

possibilities

30 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

also missed the scene with Elias and Jay. Either my DVR failed to record it or I thought the episode was over when it wasn’t, and deleted it. 

It comes after a commercial break. Jay is sitting at a table in a cafe or diner or something, with Elias, who is claiming to be a publicist. Jay is about to sign a contract for Elias to be his publicist, but of course we all realize that he's also signing away his soul. But then Jay hesitates and says he's really not sure he wants a publicist, so he'll have to think about it.

I don't know if this will be an on-going thing where Elias tries to get Jay's soul, or if it was a one-off to show Jay is pure of soul enough to just have a bad feeling about Elias, if it's a joke in general about publicists being evill, a combination, or someting else. But it did give me chills. Elias was acting a little creepy, but not enough that you'd be certain Jay wouldn't sign.

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

I loved getting to see the start of Isaacs feud with Alexander Hamilton, or at least Isaac's one sided hatred as I am sure that Hamilton never thought much about him, even after he stole his ruffle. The Hamilton and founding fathers jokes were pretty hilarious, especially Sam Addams wanting to add beer to the Declaration of Independence. It was rough to watch him blowing his chance to be a part of history and be made fun of by the rest of the founding fathers, but he got the last laugh, inspiring one of its most famous lines! It was nice of Pete to give him that, although we all know that he'll be insufferable about it. Its also nice that Isaac's grown enough as a person to find the lesson in the story and give Jay some advice on not obsessing over a rival to the point that you miss out on what you do have. 

Poor Penny...

"I cant condone the pettiness but I love the pun."

I didn't expect to see Elias show up, although I totally buy him being on Hell's management track, he continues to be just the worst. It was really sweet seeing everyone looking out for Thor when it seemed like he would possibly sign with Elias, he has done a lot of good things in his afterlife. It was especially sweet when Hetty brought up him being her imaginary friend as a child, the ghosts can certainly get on each others nerves, being stuck together for eternity, but you can see how much they care about each other. 

Jay, do not sign anything that someone who cackles asks you to sign! 

Edited by tennisgurl
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ItCouldBeWorse

ItCouldBeWorse

(edited)
On 2/28/2025 at 11:39 AM, PaulE said:

I've noticed that while the formal and proper Nigel also uses her nickname, he always calls Pete "Peter," even though no one else does that.

Hetty does it too.

On 2/28/2025 at 1:14 PM, Jodithgrace said:

1776…even though it was a musical, really captures the situation of the signing, and it was not this. A little research wouldn’t hurt, writers. 

"Sit Down, John/Open up the Window"

1776 is possibly my favorite movie musical, and it doesn't matter if you're interested in American history.  There are so many memorable songs and wonderful performances. Long-time television fans will recognize many of the actors (William Daniels as John Adams; Ken Howard as Thomas Jefferson; John Cullum as Edward Rutledge; Blythe Danner as Abigail Adams Martha Jefferson), some of whom also starred in the Broadway musical. Howard da Silva is an excellent Franklin, and Ron Holgate is a wonderful Richard Henry Lee (he sings one of my favorite songs.)

You can watch it for free (in the US) here:

https://tubitv.com/movies/691740/1776?start=true&tracking=google-feed&utm_source=google-feed

 

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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