S5.E16: Burn Books, Revisited? SEASON FINALE

[ladle1]

17 hours ago, Steph J said:

I call BS on this whole exercise. Mary has said nastier things to Heather's face than what was in that text.

I agreed with what Mary said in the text (and I say this as someone who has really liked Heather over the years). She made some excellent points about Heather and how she's changed.

That said, it didn't read like a text message at all! It sounded more like a curated statement. 

I'm calling shenanigans.

[ladle1]

17 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Yikes! Wow. I’m actually surprised everyone took it fairly well except for Lisa, of course. The lady doth protest too much. If someone said that about me, I’d be like, what?? That’s crazy! I’d laugh not have a full-on breakdown.

Right?! That's where I am with this! Obviously it's not nice to speculate about someone's marriage, but on the scale of the things written in those text messages this seemed... kind of benign? Whitney even said she didn't believe it! If someone suggested that my husband and I were out there having consensual threeways, I'd probably make a joke and move on. Maybe she was fried from sleep deprivation and the constraints of filming, but Lisa's reaction seemed really over the top.

I'm not Mormon though, so perhaps I'm lacking some cultural context for why this would be so, so offensive. (Perhaps Heather can pop up and educate me!) 

[heatherchandler]

6 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Meredith," I feel like we got the horses that represent our personalities" Horse farts.

That was so perfect!

[heatherchandler]

4 hours ago, dmeets said:

On WWHL Lisa said her text was about Meredith, and that Meredith took it "with stride [sic]" but she didn't detail what it said so I'm presuming it was an extension of the hot mic incident. She said she couldn't remember anything about Meredith's text. I'm annoyed that those two were cut for time, when we could have done without Friend Of's "I'd rather have tea with Bronwyn than Mary." And Friend Of's fifteenth 'storm off and wait for the producers to prod someone to go check on her' scene

 

They showed it on peacock’s “extended and uncensored” edition.  I don’t remember exactly what it was but it was boring.

I also call shenanigans.  They did not seem like real texts.  I’m so sick of this boring crap on these shows.

Heather suuuuuckkks she’s so annoying.  Her stupid speeches!

[Sweet-tea]

I thought Mary's response to Angie was manipulative. They way Angie was falling all over herself to apologize was unsettling and suggested to me that this relationship is not healthy. It appears Mary is in the power seat. Are they 12 years old? Mary is ticked off at Brittani so Angie is not allowed to speak to her?

Mary saying she can't tell Angie she loves her--but Angie tells Mary that--also points to a dynamic of Angie having to earn Mary's affection. And if she does something wrong, Mary will punish her with coldness. I'm sorry Mary has abandonment issues, but that doesn't excuse her icing out Angie over something trivial. 

Speaking of Angie, her text to Bronwyn was particularly nasty. Agree that Whitney wanted that information about Lisa out there and found a sneaky way to do it. But Lisa needs to learn how to control her emotions. She is volatile to the nth degree. 

What a horrible bunch of women all screaming at each other. There is no illusion of this being a friend group anymore. Sheesh. And Meredith still sounds medicated to me, even when she's yelling. 

Edited Thursday at 10:13 PM by Sweet-tea

[StevieRocks]

Well, after hearing Angie's text, I now finally understand why she and the grandpappy humping, thieving, "blaspheming, swindling toad" <thanks, @princelina !> are friends. What a couple of vile crones. 

[StevieRocks]

I do think Heather and Whitney did a good job of not laughing during the fake "exercise." 🙄 I noticed that Heather had to use both hands to cover her mouth, so we couldn't SEE that she was laughing, but overall they did a good job of concealing it. 

[princelina]

11 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

The one thing I believed was that Mary was truly pissed at Angie for chasing Britini. 

Mmm hmm - "sweet friendship" my ass 🙄

8 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Actually, those were her parishioners (church members) some of whom were family.

Yes - sometimes your real family is not enough so you have to create your own family - with the people who will clean your house so you can sit in your closet stroking your ugly designer clothes!

Edited Thursday at 10:59 PM by princelina

[howiveaddict]

The end of show blurbs were on and off so fast that I had to rewind each one a time or two to read the whole thing.  And I'm not a slow reader.

I imagine anything that anyone had texted about Lisa would have offended her.  She cannot take any criticism at all about anything.  That said, I loved that Whitney got her good.

[ladle1]

9 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Some funny parts-"I have to leave the tag on because I'm returning it tomorrow "

"Your gut is leaking, take a probiotic"

Angie trying not to laugh when Britney stormed off. Then, Britney saying, "thank you for coming to talk to me" aka bringing the cameras over. She's Sahara thirsty, that one. 

Meredith," I feel like we got the horses that represent our personalities" Horse farts.

Brownwyn's Technicolor feather coat was ridiculous &  Fabulous. I'd love to wear it. The pineapple bra tho, pass. 

All of this, plus Britani’s text about not having Mary over for tea, plus Mary’s reaction to that, had me wiping tears from my eyes I was laughing so hard. 

[njbchlover]

3 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I thought Mary's response to Angie was manipulative. They way Angie was falling all over herself to apologize was unsettling and suggested to me that this relationship is not healthy. It appears Mary is in the power seat. Are they 12 years old? Mary is ticked off at Brittani so Angie is not allowed to speak to her?

Mary saying she can't tell Angie she loves her--but Angie tells Mary that--also points to a dynamic of Angie having to earn Mary's affection. And if she does something wrong, Mary will punish her with coldness. I'm sorry Mary has abandonment issues, but that doesn't excuse her icing out Angie over something trivial. 

Speaking of Angie, her text to Bronwyn was particularly nasty. Agree that Whitney wanted that information about Lisa out there and found a sneaky way to do it. But Lisa needs to learn how to control her emotions. She is volatile to the nth degree. 

What a horrible bunch of women all screaming at each other. There is no illusion of this being a friend group anymore. Sheesh. And Meredith still sounds medicated to me, even when she's yelling. 

I totally agree with your entire post, and mostly what I've bolded here.  I am totally NOT defending Mary, but I think that what she did with Angie is what she has learned in her life.  After hearing about her parents, it's possible that this is how she was raised, and has yet to figure out that this behavior is not really acceptable or appropriate.  Mary seems to have a lot of personal issues, maybe because of the way she was raised and maybe because she has never really grown up and matured, given that she married her step-grandfather at a seemingly young age, so was probably babied throughout her marriage, as well.

She obviously has been spoiled quite a bit by her grandfather/husband and could be used to using this withdrawal of love/respect/friendship to get what she wants out of a relationship.  It could be because that was how her mother treated her and her siblings, or it could be a learned behavior when being married to such an older man.  Either way, it's not a mature or grown up way to deal with friendship issues.

Mary also seems very used to being the "queen" - whether at home, or at her now defunct church, or anywhere else - she is used to people bowing down to her and doesn't understand or accept when people don't do that.

Mary is complex and a little cuckoo-doodle - she claims to be spiritual and religious, but she doesn't seem to know how to forgive without punishment first.  It was obvious in that exchange with Angie - Angie needed to be punished enough and prove to Mary that she was "worthy" of Mary's friendship.  She also can be downright mean.

Well, that's just my thoughts on that.  

I will say, though, that Mary does seem to love her son unconditionally and seeing what has happened with Robert, Jr. (although I don't think any of that should have been filmed for TV) made me think that she's not a completely selfish, spoiled brat.  

[Chatty Cake]

Whitney was being a jerk. She got to accuse them of having a threesome while saying she didn’t believe it. Lisa in turn decided to yell that Angie’s husband was part of a circle jerk. Why? Marys text about Heather was ridiculous. Nobody sends a text like that. 

I think they wanted to recreate last years finale of Heather yelling receipts, proof, timeline, screenshots. Instead all I could picture was the Mean Girls trust scene and  someone yelling that Britani “doesn’t even go here!”

[FlyingEgret]

How convenient that everyone had a text about a different person. Would have been tragic (?) if all the texts were about Lisa...

[tvfanatic13]

The guy covering his baby’s ears was everything!!

[SemiCharmedLife]

Some of those texts were just horrendous.  I know Angie goes low when she fights, but what she said about Bronwyn was despicable.  Heather minced no words describing her cousin/friend Whitney.  I'm surprised Whitney took it so well.  

I agree about Heather's monologue.  Been there, done that.

[ZettaK]

15 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I thought it was strange that nobody scrolled past the text they read aloud too.

Most of the texts should have started, "Dear Diary."

Lisa's reaction was odd considering the other women didn't scream at anyone or retaliated, I think it hit a chord of truth?

Bronwyn and Whitney didn't react in a similar way, and the texts about them were horrible.

[Ms.Lulu]

It is time to either shake up the cast or cancel the series.

[Crazydoxielady]

This was such an obvious production influenced burn session. I knew the minute that Heather launched into her very rehearsed speech that we were in for some producer laden shenanigans. How convenient that each of them were able to find a little snippet to read and each one had a different lady. Bronwyn’s was really bad and she took it  fairly well. Of course Lisa lost her shit, because no one‘s allowed to say anything about Lisa or her precious family and I am so over it. While I don’t look at John Barlow and think of him as a swinging swinger at all lol, why is it fair to go so low about the others? Why then swing the anvil at Shawn? That was despicable. And how exactly was this supposed to go really? These ladies are going after each other in a guttural way, and of course someone’s going to runoff all offended.

The ongoing Alibaba nonsense…. when we have all seen Whitney‘s jewelry line be in complete alignment with the products Alibaba has including the exact same photos is so stupid. It’s also funny that Heather said something rude about Whit’s skin care. Whitney is not a businesswoman, she needs to stay in her lane as a trophy wife. Between her insistence of being taken serious as a business owner of dime store jewels and pyramid scheme skin care lines….coupled with her baby voice, I truly can’t stand her.

Bronwyn’s over the top fashions are just perplexing to me, that massive feathered coat and parrot necklace and earrings might be a look for some, but certainly did not look good on her. She is the epitome of the clothes wearing her. As Dwight would say… How dreadful! The taste level is just not tasting. Will we ever see her in a neutral taupe or grey? Inquiring minds! 

It’s funny that Monica continues to be brought up. They might as well just bring her back because the trauma that she apparently inflicted on this group burned deep and they can’t keep her name out of their mouth. Monica just showed up on the last episode of House of Villains, she looked great and I for one would be fine with her coming back. At least she was authentic in her inauthenticity.

 I was so happy to see that Angie did not betray Mary’s confidence. While that interaction was uncomfortable to watch, I do identify with what with Mary was saying about being abandoned as a child and how that reverberates into all of your relationships later on. You are going to do the rejecting, not vice versa. Not sure if anybody’s reading the blogs, but Robert Junior has gone off the rails recently since he’s been back from rehab, calling the housewives sluts and angrily lashing out at fans questioning his sobriety. Doesn’t appear that his sobriety stuck. My heart goes out to Mary, but if he is still using, she needs to kick him out. There’s such a thing as support, but at this point, it’s veered to enabling.

Edited Friday at 02:46 PM by Crazydoxielady

[Crazydoxielady]

On 1/15/2025 at 9:15 PM, Straycat80 said:

Meredith was basically zoned out all season

“Meredith was basically benzo’ed out all season”  (fixed that for ya!)

[Pi237]

19 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

It is time to either shake up the cast or cancel the series.

The producers interfere too much. This is a group of highly self-centered loons. It shouldn't be that hard to get good footage by just letting them be themselves. But I think, like all the shows, everyone's become too camera savvy. Especially, Heather. So, nothings authentic. And anything shocking that's aired is very cultivated and based on behind the scenes stuff. We're getting scripted scenes by the ladies and the producers. Its just not as much fun as off-the-cuff behavior.  Still, This is one of the better versions left. Mainly because Lisa, Whitney, and Meredith can’t help but be themselves, despite trying hard not to be.

Edited Yest. at 02:14 AM by Pi237
Fixed some typing

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, Pi237 said:

The producers interfere too much. This is a group of highly self-centered loons. It shouldn't be that hard to get good footage by just letting them be themselves. But I think, like all the shows, everyone's become too camera savvy. Especially, Heather. So, nothings authentic. And anything shocking that's aired is very cultivated and based on behind the scenes stuff. We're getting scripted scenes by the ladies and the producers. Its just not as much fun as off-the-cuff behavior.  Still, This his one of the better versions left. Mainly because Lisa, Whitney, and Meredith. Ant help but be themselves despite trying hard not to be.

Agreed. Salt Lake is way more entertaining than RHONY or last season of RHONJY. 

[ladle1]

10 hours ago, Ms.Lulu said:

It is time to either shake up the cast or cancel the series.

I'd say that about some of the other franchises (NJ, NYC) but I feel like SLC really brings it in a new way each season and has a good mix of women, each of whom plays her own distinct role. Like, every time I start to think Meredith is deadwood, she busts out with "huhuzzbin" or "You. Can. LEAVE." 

There's actually nobody I'd remove at this point (other than Britani, but she doesn't count), and that's rare!

[ichbin]

On 1/16/2025 at 1:54 AM, dmeets said:

Who’d have thought Angie and Mary would end up being the friendship goals of this show?

I don't know about that.  It seems like a lop-sided relationship.  Yeah, yeah, Mary gave her dramatic back story, but today is today and she doesn't seem to have a problem saying what's on her mind, so why not actually confront Angie instead of freezing her out. Instead she waited to first be begged, therefore solidifying Angie's sub-station.  It seemed very manipulative to me.  Like something straight out of a narcissists playbook.

 

4 hours ago, Crazydoxielady said:

Bronwyn’s over the top fashions are just perplexing to me, that massive feathered coat and parrot necklace and earrings might be a look for some, but certainly did not look good on her. She is the epitome of the clothes wearing her. As Dwight would say… How dreadful! The taste level is just not tasting. Will we ever see her in a neutral taupe or grey? Inquiring minds! 

She's got the overall look and body type that would look great in tailored clothing. The type of person who looks stylish and elegant in jeans and a button down blouse with a blazer. Like Ralph Lauren type style.  Instead she goes for costumes. Sure they draw attention, but probably more to impress those in the know due to their price tags. The clothes wear her.

 

18 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

Speaking of Angie, her text to Bronwyn was particularly nasty.

Angie seemed to relish the opportunity to let Bronwyn know exactly what she thinks of her and her marriage.  I saw no hint of regret. If anything it seemed she could barely contain her glee keeping a constant smirk on her face through her portion of the email segment.  

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 04:51 PM by ichbin
delete extra word

[Crazydoxielady]

27 minutes ago, ichbin said:

She's got the overall look and body type that would look great in tailored clothing. The type of person who looks stylish and elegant in jeans and a button down blouse with a blazer. Like Ralph Lauren type style.  Instead she goes for costumes. Sure they draw attention, but probably more to impress those in the know due to their price tags. The clothes wear her

Girl you just talked about my style! I literally buy everything from Ralph Lauren or JCrew. BUT! After the season for the most part, and thereby at a bargain. This season I am rocking a camel suede and sherpa RL coat which was $499 and I got for $149 last July! Otherwise I am in my $24.99 sherpa JCrew off white jacket (originally $299!) I love tailored clothes that last for years and years. Bronwyn would look fantastic in RL's beautiful clothing. Alas, color is her thing (much like the interior of Boz's house lol) and we are apparently just going to have to deal with it! Here is my question for Season 2 Bronny. Will the teeth be new? Will Todd soften his approach? Will the poop be scooped? :)

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, ichbin said:

I don't know about that.  It seems like a lop-sided relationship.  Yeah, yeah, Mary gave her dramatic back story, but today is today and she doesn't seem to have a problem saying what's on her mind, so why not actually confront Angie instead of freezing her out. Instead she waited to first be begged, therefore solidifying Angie's sub-station.  It seemed very manipulative to me.  Like something straight out of a narcissists playbook.

 

She's got the overall look and body type that would look great in tailored clothing. The type of person who looks stylish and elegant in jeans and a button down blouse with a blazer. Like Ralph Lauren type style.  Instead she goes for costumes. Sure they draw attention, but probably more to impress those in the know due to their price tags. The clothes wear her.

 

Angie seemed to relish the opportunity to let Bronwyn know exactly what she thinks of her and her marriage.  I saw no hint of regret. If anything it seemed she could barely contain her glee keeping a constant smirk on her face through her portion of the email segment.  

 

 

 

 

Agree about Bronwyn's style. I thought she looked so pretty when she was dressed as Audrey Hepburn. I'd love to see her channel more Audrey and Jackie Kennedy, but with a modern twist, kind of like Charlotte York. Preppy, classic clothing like Ralph Lauren and J. Crew would look great on her. 

For someone who slut shamed half the cast, down to "high body count hair," Angie sure wears revealing clothes. Her boobs are constantly out, and she literally had to be blurred this episode. Wear what you want, but you are not the one to get on to the other women about looking slutty. 

Edited Friday at 10:09 PM by RealHousewife

[ichbin]

7 hours ago, Crazydoxielady said:

Bronwyn’s over the top fashions are just perplexing to me, that massive feathered coat and parrot necklace and earrings might be a look for some, but certainly did not look good on her.

Okay, I'm just going to go and say it...as bad as I thought it was it was certainly better now, post nose job, than it would have been prior to that when she would have resemembed one of the Kids in the Hall characters.

[Pi237]

I get why they keep all of their texts-evidence is bread and butter on these shows. Although, let’s be real, the evidence they end up showing is always a big Nothing.  But people who save them in real life? I don’t trust those people. The only reason to save someone’s texts is to share something presumed private with someone else or to have ammunition later.  Plus, I don’t like a cluttered phone, I delete everything. 
 

Can’t wait for the reunion—except the screeching over each other and constant interrupting. They really have to get a mute button because that just gives the accused person a chance to drown the accuser out until Andy gives up and says, “let’s move on” Then, you don’t get an answer or resolution. That’s been the norm for these reunions and it’s super aggravating. Andy thinks we want all the yelling more than the actual answers to questions. 

[albarino]

11 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

For someone who slut shamed half the cast, down to "high body count hair," Angie sure wears revealing clothes. Her boobs are constantly out, and she literally had to be blurred this episode. Wear what you want, but you are not the one to get on to the other women about looking slutty. 

Well, she is a Greek hairdresser...

Okay, I'm kidding about that.

I don't watch these programs too seriously/closely  (I'm usually riding my bike on a trainer when I watch so I miss nuance) but what the hell??  

Hey, let's end the season by insulting everyone in some sort of a "Here's what mean things I've texted about you" kinda way?  It will be cleansing?!?  I really don't get how that would end well.  I can't even see the "best case" scenario here.

 

 

 

[Sweet-tea]

20 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Agreed. Salt Lake is way more entertaining than RHONY or last season of RHONJY. 

Agree about NJ. I haven't watched NYC since they turned over the cast. 

[Sweet-tea]

19 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

It seemed very manipulative to me.  Like something straight out of a narcissists playbook.

I grew up experiencing this with my mother. I can't describe how lonely and stressful it was trying to earn her love, earn back her love after I had offended her (many times not knowing what I'd done) and so many other things I won't list here. I'm an older woman now, but this left lasting scars. It also influenced all my other relationships. I feel for Mary over what she went through in her childhood. I hope she can find a way to break the pattern. I don't really like Angie, but I hope she realizes she needs to back away or she will be in a painful codependent relationship with Mary. 

I agree that the text thing was a set up by producers. I don't see the women deciding this themselves. I dislike Heather as the "leader" in all this. She does seem to have gotten a little full of herself the past few seasons. How is it a good idea to read nasty comments you said about someone out loud, especially in front of a group? We know these HWs tend to hold grudges, so the concept of burning it is a joke. 

I think Bronwyn needs a makeunder, at least in terms of clothes. It looks like she's dressing for attention, and it's not working. She doesn't seem at ease with herself. 

If the show returns, I hope they ditch Brittani. 

(small voice) I'll admit I had to look up circle jerk. Yikes. Guess I've led a sheltered life. 

Edited Yest. at 01:12 PM by Sweet-tea

[Ms.Lulu]

This finale disappointed. 

This season, few of the housewives had (interesting) storylines.

Bronwyn and Mary carried the show. I'd say Angie and Whitney were supporting tier. Lisa and Meredith were same old, same old. And Heather was nearly invisible.

I think the show could easily move on with continuity if it cast off Meredith (self -proclaimed smart word-choosing, bat mitzvahed ending slut-shaming Park City part-time resident), Lisa (I make vodka, I'm rich, happily married and fabulous and everything is Whitney's fault), and Heather (I'm a proud glutide-taking former mormon, enjoying fashion, without a storyline). And you could probably add Whitney to the drop list, but it would be fun to see how the OGs reacted to her staying on the reality sites. (I agree with Whiney, they all have relationships with bloggers and gossip sites.)

Much like the season, the producer driven text sharing idea was too heavy-handed.

I do wonder if the end of all real housewives series is here and all series have jumped the shark.

 

[RealHousewife]

Anyone else like Whitney less and less? I think her pretty face and baby voice make her come across as more innocent than she is in actuality. Other than the stuff we already discussed, isn't this the second time she's spreading sexual rumors about Lisa? I think the last time she did that she said Meredith started it, but it was Whitney that I remember blasting it on the show. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been awhile. For any flaws, Lisa is probably the last person on the show that gives slut vibes, yet she's repeatedly slut-shamed. And then even just saying stuff like she could go there about Lisa's looks. Maybe she didn't mean to, but that statement alone implies Lisa is unattractive. It was pretty mean imo. I know Lisa isn't everyone's favorite, but it's disheartening how often a woman as beautiful as her is attacked for not having frozen face.

[Rahul]

This episode really annoyed the shit out of me because the producers are no longer meddling just "producing" but rather scripting entire scenes which is an absolute insult to our intelligence. How naive and stupid do they think their audience is? Many of you have already clocked the multitude and glaringly obvious reasons that final dinner sit down was completely staged.

• Heather's rehearsed and delivered monologue at the onset, going around the table and mentioning each of the women and their perceived slights or issues within the group
• The time it would take to find a suitable text to read aloud
• The fact that each participant had selected a different woman at the table and there was no overlap--clearly these were assignments from production
• The contents of the texts being perfectly curated for this experience in a vacuum. These were not texts to other women in their group or even other people, but rather something written at the behest of producers for this moment
• The appearance of the texts themselves as a screenshot with no dialogue before or after
• Brittani's text which was clearly to her producer mentioning she would rather opt to do her upcoming scene at her home with Bronwyn instead of Mary

It seems like this was an attempt to capture the "magic" of last year's finale with Heather's dramatic reveal and unmasking of Monica. However, unlike some viewers I never likened season 4's finale to Masterpiece Theatre. To me, it read like a farcical piece of community theater trying to mimic Kabuki and this year was even worse.

This was hot garbage, plain and simple.

[ZettaK]

3 hours ago, Rahul said:

This episode really annoyed the shit out of me because the producers are no longer meddling just "producing" but rather scripting entire scenes which is an absolute insult to our intelligence. How naive and stupid do they think their audience is? Many of you have already clocked the multitude and glaringly obvious reasons that final dinner sit down was completely staged.

• Heather's rehearsed and delivered monologue at the onset, going around the table and mentioning each of the women and their perceived slights or issues within the group
• The time it would take to find a suitable text to read aloud
• The fact that each participant had selected a different woman at the table and there was no overlap--clearly these were assignments from production
• The contents of the texts being perfectly curated for this experience in a vacuum. These were not texts to other women in their group or even other people, but rather something written at the behest of producers for this moment
• The appearance of the texts themselves as a screenshot with no dialogue before or after
• Brittani's text which was clearly to her producer mentioning she would rather opt to do her upcoming scene at her home with Bronwyn instead of Mary

It seems like this was an attempt to capture the "magic" of last year's finale with Heather's dramatic reveal and unmasking of Monica. However, unlike some viewers I never likened season 4's finale to Masterpiece Theatre. To me, it read like a farcical piece of community theater trying to mimic Kabuki and this year was even worse.

This was hot garbage, plain and simple.

Bravo will never recapture the "magic" of Monica's season. It was the highest point of the show. The finale was one of the lowest. 

But this show is probably still the most entertaining of the franchise.

[ZettaK]

It's a little strange that Angie was chosen to address Bronwyn (it's obvious the exchange of texts was producer driven) when Lisa had far more serious issues with her. Angie didn't even know Bronwyn before the show, and she is a new cast member, but Lisa and Brownwyn were friends for some years. Lisa said for four years on Watch What Happens Live after the show aired.

Edited 17 hours ago by ZettaK

[ZettaK]

9 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Anyone else like Whitney less and less? I think her pretty face and baby voice make her come across as more innocent than she is in actuality. Other than the stuff we already discussed, isn't this the second time she's spreading sexual rumors about Lisa? I think the last time she did that she said Meredith started it, but it was Whitney that I remember blasting it on the show. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been awhile. For any flaws, Lisa is probably the last person on the show that gives slut vibes, yet she's repeatedly slut-shamed. And then even just saying stuff like she could go there about Lisa's looks. Maybe she didn't mean to, but that statement alone implies Lisa is unattractive. It was pretty mean imo. I know Lisa isn't everyone's favorite, but it's disheartening how often a woman as beautiful as her is attacked for not having frozen face.

Whitney is not too likeable. Heather was right about saying that Whitney changed because of fame- she is as guilty of this as Whitney though. 

Whitney said that Lisa offered favors to guys in exchange for Utah Jazz (basketball) tickets. 

As for Lisa, I think that she was pushed to have at least botox ( it appears to be so at the reunion, and the recent WWHL appearance) because of the comments.

Edited 15 hours ago by ZettaK