S18.E09: You Into Some Crazy Stuff

[kristen111]

I think Dr. Pia needs a Stylist.  Yikes!  

Why do most of them, especially Madison, laugh so much?  It seems very forced and annoying.  Seems everything annoys most of them about their marriage.  What did they expect when marrying a stranger?  They shouldn’t have applied then.

Michelle telling David’s faults at the bowling Alley was not cool.  That came across as mean.   

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Why do most of them, especially Madison, laugh so much?

Nervous tic?

I cannot stand Ikechi. He is arrogant and smug and just... ick.

I finally have some sympathy for Michelle. She has clearly identified for herself that she and David want different things from life. Neither of them is right or wrong. It's not bad that David wants a more straightforward, simpler lifestyle. It's not bad that he isn't as driven toward material things. It's not bad that Michelle wants nicer, more expensive things. She wants the bigger house and the money to travel or dine out or whatever. I feel like Dr. Pia is judging Michelle as being superficial for wanting what she wants. I don't think she is. Dr. Pia is trying to convince her that David can be "introduced" to a more luxe lifestyle but she is completely overlooking that he doesn't want it. He is happy the way he is and with the lifestyle he leads. David and Michelle just want completely different things materially and that is not wrong. But it does make them fundamentally incompatible. 

[kristen111]

Yep.  Marrying a stranger does not work.  If it does, it’s a fluke.  Michelle does not care for David period.  Why push it? Dr. Pia with her sex.  Most men would NOT go for that.  It would be embarrassing to most of them as many men would not talk freely about their sex life or lack of.

[Elizzikra]

I forgot - I'm happy for Tom and Camille. That massage was genius on his part! My husband took a class in massage and he regularly rubs my back. It is one of the kindest and most generous ways he shows me love.

Well played, Tom!

[kristen111]

12 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I forgot - I'm happy for Tom and Camille. That massage was genius on his part! My husband took a class in massage and he regularly rubs my back. It is one of the kindest and most generous ways he shows me love.

Well played, Tom!

That is wonderful.  Same here.  My husband of many years rubs my back every night also.  I love the way you reason it, as it’s true.  Consider us very lucky.

 

[kristen111]

The experts have it all wrong.   Michelle does not like the way David looks.  That’s all.  It’s not the basement or he doesn’t make enough money.  It’s the way he looks, period.  Why do they keep pushing?  It’s just not there for her period.

[Elizzikra]

26 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

The experts have it all wrong.   Michelle does not like the way David looks.  That’s all.  It’s not the basement or he doesn’t make enough money.  It’s the way he looks, period.  Why do they keep pushing?  It’s just not there for her period.

I don’t know - I think it’s the money. And I don’t like how much she is getting bashed for that. It feels like Pia and then everyone on AfterParty, including Rando Comic Lady, is saying that she can have a nice guy that she truly connects with or she can have a billionaire.

I don’t think that she wants a billionaire. I don’t think that she would say no to one outright, but I think she wants a solid upper end of the middle class lifestyle. She didn’t start with that but she has worked her way to it and she wants to keep moving in that direction. There are nice guys out there who are good husbands and good fathers (I know she doesn’t necessarily want kids) and they earn the sort of salary she is looking for. 

I get it. I like nice things. I could buy them for myself and I wouldn’t have married someone who wasn’t kind, honest, faithful, smart and funny just because he had money. But I don’t think it has to be either/or. I think the lifestyle that Michelle wants costs more than what David makes now and is likely to make in the future. I don’t think that material things are terribly important to him but he’s not a better person than Michelle because of that.

Look at me! Sticking up for Michelle! Who would have thought????

[Racj82]

With Michelle and the money thing, the point the experts and other are trying to make is that she is pushing a narrative onto him based on his current situation. Its being pointed out that it doesn't mean he can't or doesn't want more. He is just saving and chilling. He was single. He doesn't want to be in that basement forever but Michelle is treating him like all he is to her is where he's living right now. She's letting that get in the way of a guy with attributes she asked for.  This is what they are saying. No one has said she is wrong in what she wants in terms of lifestyle. They are just saying that he is more than her view of him is.

Edited December 18 by Racj82

[LennieBriscoe]

9 hours ago, kristen111 said:

The experts have it all wrong.   Michelle does not like the way David looks.  That’s all.  It’s not the basement or he doesn’t make enough money.  It’s the way he looks, period.  Why do they keep pushing?  It’s just not there for her period.

The same with Madison regarding Allen's looks! 

And if I might digress: That was the issue with several husbands about their wives on the latest MAFS: UK. 

These applicants might all talk a good game about "personality" or "character" or "loves their mother," but honesty is proverbially the best policy, and the "experts" need to get real. 

Edited December 18 by LennieBriscoe

[Mr. Miner]

Michelle doesn't like David and I get it. He probably shouldn't have been picked for the show, IMO.

[seacliffsal]

So glad Ikechi keeps getting called out on his passive-agressiveness as well as his attitude.  This week by Dr. Pia, last week on the After Party.  Can't stand him.  And, again, why was he accepted for this season when he was rejected for last season?  What changes did he pretend to make that all of a sudden made him a 'catch' for this season?

Both Michelle and Madison seem to see themselves as more desirable/better than their husbands.  Although Madison claimed she was just in the restroom at the bar when Alan left, I do think she left/separated herself from the bar.  On After Party she claimed that Alan becomes someone completely different when drinking to justify her disappearance.  We shall see.  Michelle needs to just be honest with everyone and state exactly why she is quitting the show (not a spoiler, but she really should just pack up and leave IMO).  Her continuing the 'process' is not helping anyone.  It just makes David feel worse and worse and it's driving her a bit crazy and she is seemingly becoming more anxious.

Juan isn't in to Karla and it's really bothering her as she thinks she is all that.  She just looks mad/angry in every scene now as this is not at all what she thought it would be.  

Dr. Pia appeared to be getting really frustrated in most of her meetings this episode.  I would love to know what she really wanted to say but couldn't because of the cameras.  I wonder if the 'experts' talk about all of these participants off camera and, if so, what they actually say...

[Elizzikra]

8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

With Michelle and the money thing, the point the experts and other are trying to make is that she is pushing a narrative onto him based on his current situation. Its being pointed out that it doesn't mean he can't or doesn't want more. He is just saving and chilling. He was single. He doesn't want to be in that basement forever but Michelle is treating him like all he is to her is where he's living right now. She's letting that get in the way of a guy with attributes she asked for.  This is what they are saying. No one has said she is wrong in what she wants in terms of lifestyle. They are just saying that he is more than her view of him is.

That may be what they are saying to Michelle but I think they are wrong. I think that David is living exactly the life he wants to live. I don’t think that he wants anything different. 
 

Michelle got some of the things she wants in David but not all of them. She herself has been driven to change her lifestyle since she was young. She wanted someone with a similar drive and that doesn’t seem to be David. Moreover, she doesn’t want a partner that has to change to make her happy; she doesn’t want to change and she isn’t asking anyone else to either. 

I do think that people are judging her for wanting more. Pia and the folks on AfterParty have called her “superficial.” The “comic” made a statement about how she should let genuine, good hearted, nice guy David go so she can “marry a rich guy and cheat with the pool boy.” I think all those comments miss the mark.

[Retired at last]

Both Michelle and Madison are not attracted to their spouses. Period. Madison seems to be trying more, but then she does things like hang out with her friends instead of her husband. I don't like either of them, but Michelle bugs me more. She is now having to face the fact that she has issues that need to be resolved. I loved it when Pia played the video of her saying what she wanted. That perked David up a bit, since he was exactly what she said. Now, granted, there were things she didn't say, and probably didn't think she had to specify, but she does need to go home. Now. Let David have some fun with his friends and Madison.

ETA - I do disagree with the experts who consider lifestyle and finances superficial. I would NOT want to be matched with someone I would have to support, so I understand what Michelle is saying. She refuses to accept that, so she shouldn't. However, a reminder to her that she hasn't been successful finding the right combination on her own.  Or, she could travel with Karla since Juan is too busy.

Allen (finally saw the correct spelling) is a good guy and deserves better. She is trying to have it all - her party lifestyle, a husband, and a TV camera. He deserves better and she needs to grow up. I think she is the youngest on the show this season, correct?

Tom and Camille finally seem to be doing well, now that the probable producer-directed culture talk is over. She is sticking to her need for swag, but isn't mean about it. He is a good sport, and those crazy kids just might make it - at least to Decision Day.

Karla is still a whiny, pouty baby, who needs to be told how wonderful she is all the time. Juan is NOT that guy and she doesn't know how to handle that. Again, I am sure they were matched for their looks instead of the producer/experts probing to see what they really want in a partner. Karla wants attention and commitment, Juan wants fun. Interesting that she wouldn't let him meet her father until she was sure it would be real. Smart.

Ikechi and Emem - just WOW. He is such an arrogant ass with the worst passive-aggressive attitude. She needs to get out. She also needs to get rid of those eyelashes. She can't even hold her head up correctly. Why she wants to have sex with him is beyond any reason I can see. Yuck. "I want to get to know you, but don't ask me any questions," is ridiculous. He is controlling and manipulative and should never have been picked - which they knew. Anyone who applies and was not selected and moves to another city and tries again has an ulterior motive. 

Looks like the next show is not for 3 weeks. Happy Holidays, everyone.

Edited December 18 by Retired at last

[Racj82]

A lot of these people just need to date around. If you are this tied to your type and your preferences, don't do this. Like what you want. Live whatever lifestyle you want. If you aren't willing to bend or move a little bit. If you are this rigid, this show isn't for you. The person will never meet all your criteria.

 

[atomic]

Madison expects Allen to call her beautiful all the time when she doesn't even like his looks at all? The ego on this woman is exhausting. You could tell how much she loved that comedian lady on Afterparty validating how gorgeous she is and how she's sooo far out of Allen's league.

Karla is still not my cup of tea, but I feel for her in the sense that she's trying and getting nothing in return. Juan could not have been more aloof when she opened up about her childhood and tried to be vulnerable with him. 

The nerve of Ikechi to initiate things sexually and then act like he was violated by his wife when she tried to advance things in that department. I hate that we have to wait three weeks to see Emem go off on him and call him the CLOWN that he is.

Glad to see Thomas and Camille back on track. Sounds like Thomas proved how much "swag" he has in the bedroom and hopefully she leaves that stupid hangup in high school where it belongs.

[Crashcourse]

16 hours ago, kristen111 said:

 Michelle does not care for David period.

It's just that simple.  She doesn't like what she sees.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

   I'm going to fast forward through Camille and Thomas from now on.  He led his ex-girlfriend on for 9 years, cheated on her, told her he wasn't ready to marry her/anyone and then goes on this show 😒😑.  I have no respect for men who cheat and/or waste a woman's time. 

    He's doing performative romance with the shitty Dollar Tree faux rose petals and having production set up a rented massage bed. I bet he didn't even do any of this for his ex- imagine how she must feel knowing that he's doing this for a complete stranger. I hope his ex has found a great guy!

Edited December 18 by Hip-to-be-Square

[LennieBriscoe]

Juan has dead eyes with Karla. 

[Elizzikra]

3 hours ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

   I'm going to fast forward through Camille and Thomas from now on.  He led his ex-girlfriend on for 9 years, cheated on her, told her he wasn't ready to marry her/anyone and then goes on this show 😒😑.  I have no respect for men who cheat and/or waste a woman's time. 

    He's doing performative romance with the shitty Dollar Tree faux rose petals and having production set up a rented massage bed. I bet he didn't even do any of this for his ex- imagine how she must feel knowing that he's doing this for a complete stranger. I hope his ex has found a great guy!

I hope Tom's ex has found her perfect match too. Apart from that, I don't agree with what you have said.

Tom and his ex-dated for nine years. Long time. He cheated on her. Horrible. 

People make mistakes though. And we don't know how long she expected this relationship to end in marriage, or for sure that she ever did expected or wanted that. She could have left, if she decided she was waiting too long for a proposal. She could have left if she felt she was wasting her time. I have several friends who stayed in romantic relationships longer than they should have because they were hoping to marry their boyfriends. I disliked their boyfriends for continuing relationships that, at least in some cases, I suspected was because they were unable to commit to marriage. But I also thought that my friends were making decisions to continue to stay, despite being clear on what they wanted and knowing clearly, that they weren't getting it in those relationships. Every single one of those women eventually said "now or never" and every single one of them ended those relationships. Every single one of them found a better partner. 

I don't think that the massage thing was an act, beyond sort of the regular producer-driven shenanigans and storylines. I think that Tom came on the show because he wanted a wife and I think he is developing solid feelings for Camille. Of all the couples this season, I think they might be the ones to stay married on Decision Day.

[Crashcourse]

Tom and Camille might say Yes on Decision Day, but I wonder how long his newly-acquired-because-he's-wearing-ear-studs "swag" will last.   And what is Camille showing him?   She's no Cardi B. 😏

[Alexander Pope]

Ikechi really outdid himself this week.  He said that Emem made him feel like a piece of meat, and "violated his consent"? He is saying she assaulted him--that is what that phrase means.  On the after party, he claimed he didn't say that line about consent but on the show, Dr. Pia specifically asked him if that's what he meant, and he said, "that's what I said."  Then on the After Party he said, "I didn't say it, I was only agreeing." WTF???

Did Ikechi ask Emem's consent when he took her hand and put it on his crotch? I think not. He also described her as "grunting and moaning," which is demeaning and dehumanizing.

I have never seen a more passive-aggressive person on this show.  And there is no better way to gaslight a woman than to say that she is treating a man the way a sexist man would treat a woman.  I just can't with him!!

Edited December 19 by Alexander Pope
because I keep thinking of new reasons to hate him

[Retired at last]

I agree, @Alexander Pope. This jerk makes my former choice for worst man ever, that Chris guy, look almost acceptable. He is not going to change, and the longer Emem stays there, the more I lose any respect for her. She has always given him the side eye, like she doesn't believe him (or it could be those awful eyelashes), but she needs to just leave. It looked like from the previews that something happens next time (in 3 weeks) that she calls him out for something/everything, and I hope the producers give her options, as far as living arrangements. At first I thought that David and Michelle wouldn't make it to D-Day, but now I just want Emem to leave.

ETA - so spell check will accept Ikechi, but every time I write Emem, it changes to Emma, Hemet (?), and other words!🤣

[Hip-to-be-Square]

16 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I hope Tom's ex has found her perfect match too. Apart from that, I don't agree with what you have said.

Tom and his ex-dated for nine years. Long time. He cheated on her. Horrible. 

People make mistakes though. And we don't know how long she expected this relationship to end in marriage, or for sure that she ever did expected or wanted that. She could have left, if she decided she was waiting too long for a proposal. She could have left if she felt she was wasting her time. I have several friends who stayed in romantic relationships longer than they should have because they were hoping to marry their boyfriends. I disliked their boyfriends for continuing relationships that, at least in some cases, I suspected was because they were unable to commit to marriage. But I also thought that my friends were making decisions to continue to stay, despite being clear on what they wanted and knowing clearly, that they weren't getting it in those relationships. Every single one of those women eventually said "now or never" and every single one of them ended those relationships. Every single one of them found a better partner. 

  You make great points and I'm very glad that your gal pals got out of those relationships that weren't good for them 🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️⬅❌🧑👨‍🦱👨.  Thomas told Pia that he hasn't been a good partner in previous relationships and that he doesn't feel he deserves this opportunity. Pia never asked him why he was a jerk to multiple exes or if he even feels remorse.

     I don't think that he deserves an instant marriage that the experts chose for him.  I think he wasn't looking for a wife in real life and he was scouted on Linkedin or dating apps to be on this show.  Could he be reformed and less of a jerk now? Maybe, but I really don't like how he treated his ex in the end. 😕

Edited Thursday at 06:01 PM by Hip-to-be-Square

[SummerDreams]

When I was saying in previous episodes that Michelle is superficial and all about money, people were getting defensive. I think her one on one convo with Dr Pia showed exactly that. I don't dismiss her needs and her feelings, but this is what she means when she says ALL THE TIME "I asked for someone who can match my lifestyle".

Dr Pia's breasts are huge and what she was wearing was making them look even huger. When she was sitting down I thought she was holding something on her lap or something. I'm not making fun of her because I have exactly the same breasts but I would feel really uncomfortable with this top. Do guys find this huge breasts attractive? I find them really appaling but I'm a woman so my opinion doesn't count.

[SummerDreams]

On 12/18/2024 at 3:30 PM, Mr. Miner said:

He probably shouldn't have been picked for the show, IMO.

Why is that?

[Retired at last]

I agree that Michelle wants someone more financially stable and who likes to have nice things. That is her lifestyle. And I disagree that wanting that is superficial. David likes his more simple life. He is open to trying new things, which is great, but she shouldn't have to train him. I dated someone once with very limited life experiences, and after teaching all day, the last thing I wanted was to come home and teach him about going to a museum! I figured that, at this point in his life, as an adult, if he wanted to go to one, he would have, despite his meager upbringing. So, while I continue to dislike Michelle and her personality, I am starting to understand her more. She still needs to be honest and say that it is not going to work.

About Pia - yikes! She needs a stylist and fast. She looked horrible and very uncomfortable. 

[After7Only]

On 12/20/2024 at 11:43 AM, Retired at last said:

I agree that Michelle wants someone more financially stable and who likes to have nice things. That is her lifestyle. And I disagree that wanting that is superficial.

I don't fault her for wanting someone more financially stable.   Most people prefer a financially stable partner.   But I do fault for, for going on this show if financial stability was at the top of her priority list for a partner.  And she's made it clear that she values financial stability and lifestyle compatibility over all of other things she said she wanted in a partner.    It was telling that she equates David being a provider in terms of financially providing only.   And couldn't grasp the concept of other ways a husband could provide for a wife.      

This show just doesn't attract the type of man she's looking for.   Most are  middle class guys with stable careers.  If anything it tends to attract higher income women.   

 

Edited Monday at 02:01 AM by After7Only

[SummerDreams]

I'm not body shaming her, but is that sexy?

[atomic]

1 hour ago, SummerDreams said:

Why is that?

Because he lives in a dirty basement and seems to be content with that while he's paying off debts, says he practices darts 3 hours a day, slouches and presents himself sloppily, works a job with unconventional hours which makes it difficult to even see him, curses in front of his new in-laws...the list goes on and on.

He seems like a nice guy who'd be fun to chug beers with, but most women are not going to be attracted to a 36-year-old man who fits that profile.

[Chatty Cake]

I do understand where Michelle is coming from. David seems nice but not marriage material and yes that mop on his head is distracting and unattractive to most. Is he still smoking? A non smoker is not going to want to smell cigarettes on their new partner. Pia seemed more concerned with defending why the two were put together rather than admitting that the two are not a good fit.

It’s hard to watch Ikechi. He is hostile toward Emem and I think Pia should have been more concerned for her.

Juan doesn’t seem to be trying. I get that Karla can be a lot but she does seem interested in getting to know him and he comes off like dead wood.

Fingers crossed for Thomas and Camille.  I don’t think his past relationship should be held against him. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Is he still smoking?

He said he quit as soon as she said it was a deal breaker for her. I think he vapes?

Quote

Pia seemed more concerned with defending why the two were put together rather than admitting that the two are not a good fit.

Agreed. I also though Pia was emphasizing that David could change if Michelle introduced him to the finer things in life, instead of admitting that they are a mismatch and neither one of them should have to change who they are fundamentally. The experts like to throw a lot under the heading of "compromise."

[Jeanne222]

What kind of work does David do?  He's a shift worker so I'm thinking factory work???

My grandma had a lot of old sayings.  One was " Be careful what you wish for.  It might come true"!

[atomic]

3 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

What kind of work does David do?  He's a shift worker so I'm thinking factory work???

He is supposedly a social worker who moonlights as a foreman (or maybe the other way around?)

[Chatty Cake]

On 12/20/2024 at 6:25 PM, Elizzikra said:

He said he quit as soon as she said it was a deal breaker for her. I think he vapes?

Agreed. I also though Pia was emphasizing that David could change if Michelle introduced him to the finer things in life, instead of admitting that they are a mismatch and neither one of them should have to change who they are fundamentally. The experts like to throw a lot under the heading of "compromise."

Yes. If there was some attraction there, introducing him to the finer things might work but I don’t think she wants to spend any time with him. There’s nothing there on her part. 

[princelina]

Around here, Ikechi is what's known as "a lying sack of shit" 😃. If I were Emem and I decided to stick around, he'd have to be on his knees begging before I ever touched him again.  If he came on this show hoping to have ladies after him when it's over he's going about it all wrong!  I guess I'll have to wait for the NY to get my Christmas present of Emem reaming him out like the clown that he is!!

Juan is also an ass, which I suspected when he gave his "complicated culture" as the reason he's still single.  I have suspected the real reason is because he's cheap.  

I like Tom and don't get what his wife is looking for - she really wants him swaggering around in those tacky chains?

Allen and David will be better off when this is over.

As for Pia, it seems to me that she's put on weight since last season, so maybe she's having trouble adjusting her style to her new body.

 

[kristen111]

❄️☃️❄️  Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to everyone !  ❤️

[Elizzikra]

Quote

He is supposedly a social worker who moonlights as a foreman (or maybe the other way around?)

I am a social worker so I am picky about this job title. As I understand it, from another poster who found him on LinkedIn, David has a bachelor's degree in social work. That is great. Yay David. But I don't think he has ever been licensed or done any work in social work. I would say he is not a social worker. More importantly, I think the National Association of Social Workers would say he is not a social worker.

I'm not sure what his actual job is except that he works for the city or the county and he works an evening shift. I don't think it's in anything social work-y.

Quote

❄️☃️❄️  Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to everyone !  ❤️

Back atcha and to everyone here. I think I only keep watching this show that I can chat with y'all here. 

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Elizzikra said:

I am a social worker so I am picky about this job title. As I understand it, from another poster who found him on LinkedIn, David has a bachelor's degree in social work. That is great. Yay David. But I don't think he has ever been licensed or done any work in social work. I would say he is not a social worker. More importantly, I think the National Association of Social Workers would say he is not a social worker.

I'm not sure what his actual job is except that he works for the city or the county and he works an evening shift. I don't think it's in anything social work-y.

That was me who posted it and I am with you lol. I found it fishy from the beginning that he works both of those jobs, and was not surprised to find out that his LinkedIn does not list any job as a social worker.

I think David probably feels insecure about where he's actually at in life at 36 and because of that he overinflates his accomplishments. He says things like he bought and sold a bar when it was actually a family business owned by his parents, he oversold his basement as a fully separate studio apartment, etc. It's another reason why I'm sympathetic towards Michelle. She has probably picked up on the inconsistencies herself, and I don't know how she's supposed to give someone a chance who is not even being fully forthcoming with her.

[Retired at last]

Maybe (?) he is being more honest with her off-camera and because it doesn't meet the producer's narrative, she can't say anything. But, we know she will never ever ever like him, even though she says he is a great guy.

[Jeanne222]

23 hours ago, atomic said:

He is supposedly a social worker who moonlights as a foreman (or maybe the other way around?)

Thank you!  I've been wondering this whole time!

I bet she's not into packing lunches either!

She's an uptown gal married to guy trying to live the American dream of a home and family.

[candall]

On 12/17/2024 at 9:47 PM, kristen111 said:

The experts have it all wrong.   Michelle does not like the way David looks.  That’s all.  It’s not the basement or he doesn’t make enough money.  It’s the way he looks, period.  Why do they keep pushing?  It’s just not there for her period.

100%.  That's exactly what I came here to say. 

David's most notable physical characteristic is the big lopsided poodle pom-pom hanging off the side of his head and it sets Michelle's teeth on edge every time she looks at him.  She even said that she gets up every morning [alone in her own room], determined to be more open, but almost immediately shuts down [boom, there's that stupid pom pom.  Grrrrr.]

 

I think she knows it's not cool to be so superficial and she's doing her best to deflect her criticism onto his living situation and other, more appropriate, "flaws."  Grooming eyebrows that have a full bushel basket of beard below and a giant cluster of hair grapes directly above--kind of like spitting into the sea.  But you'd have to be blind not to catch the subtext of Michelle wanting to tidy up David's, umm, eyebrows.

[candall]

Adding in to what I said above, I think Michelle is embarrassed to be faced with the cold hard fact that she's so (uptight and) conventional.  She probably truly believed she was the unconventional, fun, iconoclast rulebreaker--as she lavishly described herself and the person she was looking for.

So interesting for David to say, "Hey, what she said?  That's EXACTLY how I am!"  Yep.

It's too bad the therapist didn't hold Michelle's feet to the fire, even when she got her alone.  Michelle was super-defensive; she knew she was one step away from being exposed as the very basic superficial person she is.  For her--as for so many--the external matters more than what's inside a person.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

David's most notable physical characteristic is the big lopsided poodle pom-pom hanging off the side of his head and it sets Michelle's teeth on edge every time she looks at him. 

She was fine with a ponytail. Couldn't he just pull it back instead of forward and see what that does?

[JenE4]

Like many of you, I have to agree that the “comedian” on AP and everyone else jumping on Michelle as the biggest gold digger who ever dug gold made me want to defend Michelle. The financial continuum between basement dweller and private jet owner is pretty vast. It sounds like Michelle grew up near poverty level (at least from her perspective), so it’s not unreasonable to want a solid upper middle class life in which you own your own home and can maybe go out to dinner and a once-a-year basic vacation without living paycheck to paycheck. Granted, she hasn’t really described her “lifestyle” goals too clearly, but I get the impression she’s not really asking for much more than that. Karla is the one who keeps talking about traveling the world and being taken care of without wanting a 9-5. Michelle just wants someone to be her financial equal, not support her outright.  Honestly, I think if David had gotten his MSW and was a LCSW rather than second-shift (factory?) foreman and had a more white collar ambition/look/persona, she might be more accepting of him, even though social workers aren’t known for rolling in money. You can tell that his SW education has had some impact, as he’s particularly adept at just listening and being patient and trying to talk through emotions. That being said, I can see why going on words alone, they were matched. He is a very decent dude, and I can see why everyone within this show universe is rooting for him and sees Michelle as the “problem.” I do wonder what else Michelle said was important to her that we didn’t see. Maybe she didn’t bring up financial security specifically, but I wonder whether “ambition” or “intellectual” came up at all. Not that David isn’t smart, per se, but I do think it’s the lack of “wanting more” out of life careerwise or not having intellectual pursuits (aka “simple”) that adds to the “lifestyle” disparity.

Ikechi is an asshole and a half! And, yes, he was very sexually “aggressive” toward Emem for the first couple of weeks himself before he decided to pretend to be all demure and aghast. Buuuut, I do kind of understand where he’s coming from with her “moaning” and whatnot being too much. I know I’ve commented before how strange it is when he starts quoting scripture and she’s all “OoOoh, yees! Mmmmmm!” Like??? There’s a time and a place, Emem, and it sounds like she’s hot to trot at all times and in every place. So, yes, Ikechi is passive aggressive and a jerk. Yet, I’ll at least give him props for not sleeping with her. He obviously was attracted to her at first but that changed, just like Juan to Karla and Madison to Allen. Michelle is the only one who was all “hell no!” from the jump. The other couples had instant attraction until one partner in the mix decided the “chemistry” was no longer there. But maybe there’s still time to come around for some of them, like Camille did with Tom. 

Edited 22 hours ago by JenE4

[princelina]

34 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

 Karla is the one who keeps talking about traveling the world and being taken care of without wanting a 9-5.  

I agree with the rest of your post, but does Karla really do that?  She told his dad she'd like to be able to stay home from work to raise kids if possible, and told Juan she wished he'd want it too, but that's far from being the big freeloader she gets portrayed around here.  Kind of like those women everyone started saying "smelled bad" just because their dickhead husbands liked night showers and they liked morning ones.

[JenE4]

40 minutes ago, princelina said:

I agree with the rest of your post, but does Karla really do that?  She told his dad she'd like to be able to stay home from work to raise kids if possible, and told Juan she wished he'd want it too, but that's far from being the big freeloader she gets portrayed around here.  Kind of like those women everyone started saying "smelled bad" just because their dickhead husbands liked night showers and they liked morning ones.

I’ve heard Karla say several times to Juan that he should want to support her financially. She currently is homeless (not sure where she would be living if the a show didn’t provide her with an apartment) and just wants to work a few hours here and there doing reiki and cutting hair but not a full-time job. She finally says she wants to be an “entrepreneur” and own her own business, but I think that’s to appease Juan, as being an entrepreneur is his big thing that he’s constantly talking about. But I definitely heard her say to him early on that she doesn’t want a 9-5 because she wants to travel the world. And he was all how are you paying to travel? And she was basically like you’re my husband and I expect you to pay for what I want. She even said she’d travel on her own when he said he was too busy establishing his businesses to take time off. I don’t have the exact quotes, so maybe I am reading into it. But I definitely feel like I’ve heard Karla say in so many words that now that she’s married, she expects Juan to financially support her. And not like someday when we have kids, but today. They’ve had several conversations about it in which he’s like all my time and money are going into establishing my businesses, and I expect you to contribute to this partnership. Michelle and Juan are both looking for their partners to be financially independent, but I think Karla is “worse” than David because he’s not looking for a dime of Michelle’s money, he just would be happy living the financial level he’s already at. Karla is looking to be taken care of at a level of which she cannot care for herself. In my mind, she’s looking for more financially than Michelle is, but somehow Michelle is the one branded a gold digger. Just my opinion that Karla is the stealth gold digger and yet is somehow flying under the radar on that while Michelle gets eviscerated just because she’s more “open to the process” than Michelle is.

Edited 21 hours ago by JenE4

[atomic]

I think Karla is accustomed to a pretty lavish lifestyle and I have wondered how she funds it on her hairdresser salary. She's talked about how she's traveled all over the world, buys $13 juices every day, and her place on the Matchmaking Special before she became homeless she looked really nice:

[Crashcourse]

I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't her place, and she asked a friend if she could use theirs. 

Or maybe it was her place, and she got evicted because she couldn't pay rent. 

[Elizzikra]

5 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't her place, and she asked a friend if she could use theirs. 

Or maybe it was her place, and she got evicted because she couldn't pay rent. 

Or she had ten roommates.