S01.E06: In the Bleak Midwinter

[Snazzy Daisy]

Quote

Armed with evidence and bent on vengeance, Helen goes searching for the Clarks. As the conspiracy starts to unravel, she has a deadly decision to make.

Air Date: Dec 05, 2024

 

 

Edited December 6, 2024 by Snazzy Daisy

[Snazzy Daisy]

Sam returns his favor to Helen by killing Alex Clark and Trent Clark for being responsible for Jason’s death. He makes himself a target for Clark family to get revenge on because he swears to protect her. This comes at the cost of his own happiness.

 

OVERALL:

I have been waiting for Black Doves because I love Joe Barton’s previous series — Giri/Haji.

After 6 episodes, am disappointed TBH. The main problem with this show is that it doesn’t really know what it wants to be — a spy thriller, a murder mystery or a love story.

Tonally, it has a weird mix of genres. At times, it feels like this show wants to imitate the playfulness of Guy Ritchie’s The Gentlemen.

As the narrative unfolds, it’s hard to ignore the accumulated plot holes and why some characters do things that don’t make sense.   
 

[dancingdreamer]

I actually  loved this, even  though  it was trying  to be everything  to everyone. DH had trouble  following  it all, I never did.

Sarah Lancashire as Reed, with her pperfectly calm voice and presence,  tied this together  in a big bow at the end.

[LisaM]

I absolutely loved this entire series. I watched specifically because of Sarah Lancashire, who I have adored in many other shows. I loved the whole thing - especially Williams, her partner, and Kai-Ming...Michael/Sam....Helen fighting with Wallace's assistant at the jewelry store....and everything Reed. 

So looking forward to the next season. 

[shrewd.buddha]

On 12/9/2024 at 12:04 AM, dancingdreamer said:

I actually  loved this, even  though  it was trying  to be everything  to everyone.

Ditto. It was also nice to have a Christmas theme at this time of year.

The plot and tone got more unhinged and chaotic as the story progressed.  The acting, staging and cinematography managed to keep things from tipping into utter ridiculousness: untraceable cell phones? leaving fingerprints everywhere? Husband never ever questioning why stay-at-home wife is AWOL for huge amounts of time?

One minor gripe was the introduction of new characters near the end. The drug dealer had been mentioned - but we were losing track of names at one point.
Was Tracey Ullman supposed to be a surprise cameo?

Edited December 10, 2024 by shrewd.buddha

[LisaM]

6 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Husband never ever questioning why stay-at-home wife is AWOL for huge amounts of time?

 

THIS was my big question and laugh. Helen literally kept leaving the house - at all hours of the night - just up and left. 

[cardigirl]

I enjoyed this, I thought the black humor was great. Was kind of hoping for a reveal of the husband being involved somehow. 

I love Ben Whishaw, and enjoyed his performance. Kiera was good too, but she has an awful lot of teeth.  😜

Are we hoping for a second season?

[MissLucas]

I agree this was all over the place and only the acting and the settings were holding it together. I liked the narrative at the core: Sam and Helen's relationship and how it unfolded but even that was at times in danger to get sucked into the many, many gaping plot holes.

[abbyzenn]

It was worth it to watch just to see London at Christmas time.

I've learned with these type of shows you just have to accept plot holes and things that don't really make a lot of sense.   As someone said above Helen disappearing from home at all hours of day and night.  Or that the affair with Jason was only 3 months.

I did like the last scene with Sam coming to Helen's house for Christmas dinner.

[SeanBug]

I finished last night and enjoyed it.  

I did wonder how Helen kept going out for hours and never having to explain it. Until the other Black Dove (which was so obvious) told Wallace Helen had been cheating on him.  

I read online that this story is based on real events.  Not exactly but the idea came from this: 

https://ew.com/black-doves-netflix-true-story-8759440#:~:text=Is Black Doves based on,Ben Whishaw.&text=Barton told Radio Times that,Doves — and he's absolutely right.

I got "The Gentlemen" vibe as well. Especially from Williams and Eleanor.  Enjoyed them partying with Kai-Ming at the end. 

Ben Whishaw is just the best.  I have enjoyed him since I first saw him in "Skyfall".  

[ruby24]

The part where Keira fought that girl who was going to replace her, and she said "before we do this I just want to tell you I'm a huge fan," felt like a meta moment to me.

[Cementhead]

Do we know who that young woman was who was sitting on Reed's couch at the end?  I suppose she is Reed's new back-up replacement for Helen if need be?

I loved this.  Always been a Keira fan and have looked for all things Sarah since Happy Valley but Ben Whishaw was a revelation for me.  I adored this guy!  What an absolute charmer. 

Edited December 14, 2024 by Cementhead

[violet and green]

13 hours ago, Cementhead said:

Do we know who that young woman was who was sitting on Reed's couch at the end? 

That was Keira Knightley's character Helen's nanny, I think.

[Cementhead]

32 minutes ago, violet and green said:

That was Keira Knightley's character Helen's nanny, I think.

Oh, wow.  Thank you.  So the plot thickens..

[rtms77]

 

   17 hours ago,  violet and green said: 

That was Keira Knightley's character Helen's nanny, I think.

Oh, wow.  Thank you.  So the plot thickens..
 

Yeah most likely either she’s already a spy backup, or Reed has something on her and she’s now being “recruited “. 
 

I really hope if they have another season it won’t be Sam having to take out Helen. .

 

[Hanahope]

I think Helen told Wallace that she had been out with Sam (who is gay) and he is an old friend having boyfriend or partner problems as an excuse for being out a lot. 

Glad they had Reed explain everything at the end, kind of needed it.  I guess Jason didn’t blow Helen’s cover.  
 

and Sam looks to be staying and working for Hector.  

Edited December 16, 2024 by Hanahope

[fastiller]

On 12/10/2024 at 9:12 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

Was Tracey Ullman supposed to be a surprise cameo?

Tracey Ullman was credited at the end of Ep5 (at the very end of the actors' credits), for the very brief & only in the shadows appearance.  So, if she was meant to be a surprised cameo, that was blown; though I suppose the expectation may've been that most people don't stick around for end-of-ep credits long enough to have seen it.

Was anyone expecting Sam to say to Lennie/y as he walked away from their last meeting something like "see you around, Mum"?  Just me?

 

[snarts]

I enjoyed this but might need a re-watch. So many characters/names/storylines and binging six episodes over two days wasn't enough to understand all of them.

Sure didn't help that I thought Mom Clark & Lenny were the same person for nearly an entire episode...

[MissLucas]

On 12/14/2024 at 12:42 AM, Cementhead said:

Ben Whishaw was a revelation for me

I've been a fan since 'The Hour' which was an absolutely fantastic show with a brilliant cast (Whishaw, Peter Capaldi, Dominic West, Romola Garai, Anna Chancellor). There was a brief scene with Capaldi that still haunts me. I'm still miffed at the BBC for cancelling the show after only two seasons. It takes place during the Cold War - so lots of espionage going on. Spies and Paddington are the constants in Whishaw's resume.

[Hanahope]

after some reflection, i thought the story was pretty good.  taking it from Helen's POV for the most part (with a bit of Sam's at times), it did a pretty good job of laying it all out. so of course we needed Reed's explanation of the whole story at the end to fill in the bits neither Helen nor Sam saw.  

One could see where Reed was a bit worried about Helen's loyalties to the Doves' when she started seeing Jason and it sounds like Reed didn't know Jason was MI5 until she got the whole story at the end.  Who did she get that bit of info from?  But Reed was worried about losing her spy that was getting close to #10.  Still, i think she played her cards too soon with Dani.  Once Jason was dead, sure Helen wanted vengeance, but that didn't mean she was now going to leave Wallace.  and how long as the nanny been a Dove?

I do wonder how Helen can explain all her late night outings to Wallace on ...what helping Sam with...something?  I guess Helen must have done all her christmas shopping done early since she clearly wasn't doing shopping during these outings.  

And really, the dead Chinese ambassador's daughter isn't immediately flown back to China when she's found, but can spend christmas with two assassins?  sure.  or is she still "in hiding?"  i guess that wasn't really explained. 

wasn't that a nice bit of coincidence that the only survivor of that big shoot out was Cole Atwood.  You really think he's not going to want to use his bit of knowledge about Helen in the future sometime?  

and even if Jason reported to MI5 that Helen wasn't a spy, shouldn't MI5 still be worried that the wife of the defense secretary and now eventual PM is at risk for having affairs?  

 

[meep.meep]

I just finished this - great Christmas spy drama.  I'm developing a love for Kathryn Hunter who played Lenny - she's one of those actors (like Whishaw) who never goes wrong.  She played Karn's mother in Andor and the brothel keeper in Poor Things.

Appreciated that the American spy went into battle in a baseball cap, hoodie, and long woolen coat.  And wasn't Kiera Knightly's big yellow scarf just screaming "look at me!" in every scene?

 

[chaifan]

Overall, I think this was a good show.  As others have said, the acting was brilliant, it really was a great cast.  Kiera Knightly surprisingly worked as a bad ass shooting fighting spy.  Sort of gave me some Mrs. Smith Angelina Jolie vibes in the fight scenes.  I loved Sarah Lancaster in this, she played Reed beautifully.  I loved her flat, too.  

I don't like that they had to have that big exposition heavy scene with Helen and Reed just so the viewers could understand what this was all about.  I can't imagine anyone figuring this out on their own, or even randomly guessing the connection between the three people killed in Ep 1, but that's what shows like this should allow for.  I had a feeling early on Jason also wasn't who he said he was, but I was figuring he was with one of the mob groups.  Him being Mi5 was a nice twist.  Also, having a private super secret spy discussion in the balcony of a cathedral is incredibly stupid.  Cathedrals are known for their acoustics - a whispered conversation in a far corner can be heard by everyone.  It was pretty, but that bothered me. 

On 12/7/2024 at 2:27 AM, Snazzy Daisy said:

As the narrative unfolds, it’s hard to ignore the accumulated plot holes and why some characters do things that don’t make sense.  

My beef with this show from the beginning is that it relies on supposedly smart people doing stupid things.  Especially as we find out in the end that Jason was MI5, so he should have known better than to be so public with his affair with Helen and meeting Maggie and whats his name in public to discuss the videotape.  And to be walking the city at night after 2 friends get killed.  That's high level stupid for MI5.  

On 12/13/2024 at 9:16 AM, SeanBug said:

I got "The Gentlemen" vibe as well. Especially from Williams and Eleanor.  Enjoyed them partying with Kai-Ming at the end. 

Ditto.  I expected one of them to end up dead at the end, and I'm glad they both survived.

I will admit, I'm confused about the Kai-Ming part of this story.  Yes, I get that she's the ambassador's daughter.  But I don't get why she was so important to everyone.  She didn't witness the killing, or know anything about it.  She was passed out on heroin the whole time, and ended up crashing at a club owned by one of the many mob bosses London seems to have.  I get from a diplomatic PR standpoint the gov't would be looking for her, but even if she was kidnapped or whatever, does the heroin addict daughter of a dead Ambassador have much value?  I guess she was just a plot device to bring CIA guy into the fold, but I don't think he was even necessary in the end.

On 12/14/2024 at 7:51 AM, violet and green said:

That was Keira Knightley's character Helen's nanny, I think.

Thank you!  I didn't catch that at all.  I just assumed it was a random next Black Dove to set up next season.  

On 12/16/2024 at 5:57 PM, snarts said:

Sure didn't help that I thought Mom Clark & Lenny were the same person for nearly an entire episode...

I was actually expecting "Mrs. Clark" to be Reed.  

I think this show's biggest problem was too many characters.  They could have saved the whole Sam/William plot for Season 2, and I don't think CIA guy was even necessary.  Throw in the Clarks at the end, and it was getting pretty confusing.  As I said above, without Reed's explanation, we'd have no idea how this tied all together. 

All that said, if there's a Season 2, I'll watch it.  

 

[Roaster]

I wonder about the motivations of the characters. A couple months ago I binged The Americans, which shares some elements with Black Doves, especially the main character: a nice-looking white woman, late 30s, two kids, impressive fighting skills. Elizabeth on The Americans was motivated by ideology. She wasn’t doing it for money.

The Black Doves organization – who knows how big it is – is a private spy service, gathering intelligence and selling it. Reed was making money. Presumably her operatives like Helen were paid big bucks. Are we supposed to believe Helen was squirreling away her Black Dove income and hiding it from her husband? Helen and Sam were both pretty sentimental and not obviously doing it for the money. And while the KGB is big and resourceful enough to train super-skilled spies, it seems less likely the Black Doves could do that. Plus they recruited Helen at a later age – late 20s I guess – and ten years later she’s married to a senior government minister and has evaded anyone looking into what she was doing in her young adult years. I know these shows are not realistic – the body counts in both! - but those questions were running through my mind while watching the final few episodes.

If we get a second season, I hope we see more of the Black Doves organization and more detail about how Reed seems to know everything. And while the comedic trappings of Williams and Eleanor might seem out of place in a show like this, I actually liked them. So I hope the show keeps them around in Season 2.

 

[chaifan]

@Roaster, I agree with your whole post.  I also wondered how the wife of the Minister of Defense (and possible future PM) had cleared any security screenings.  I will just have to assume for the sake of the story that the Black Doves have the ability to re-create backgrounds, possibly have someone on the inside of whatever gov't department would be doing these screenings.  

And great point on the motivation/money.  I really hadn't thought about that.  It makes sense that Daisy/Helen was motivated by money in the beginning, but once you're married to a high level politician, what's the motivation?  Especially since Black Doves will work for anyone.  They gave us nothing about Daisy/Helen to show that she'd be willing to sell out her country for money, which she very well may have done, whether she knew it or not.  But I can see her squirreling that money away, though, as it was clear at certain points she had no intention of staying married.  Sam I can buy just being a paid assassin, and not really caring who the target its, what the reason is, as long as he gets paid.

One thing I wasn't clear on - did Helen marry as part of her job as a spy, or did she actually fall in love with Wallace?  

Oh, and the more I think about this, the more I think all of this is Jason's fault.  As a trained MI5 spy or whatever, he did an awful job at everything.  If he kept the affair more discrete (not meeting in public), or if he didn't meet with the other 2 about the video tape in public, none of this would have ever occurred.  Pretty much the only dead person would have been the Chinese Ambassador.  Every death after that was the result (directly or indirectly) of Jason doing stupid things.

Edited Sunday at 05:53 PM by chaifan

[Desperado]

58 minutes ago, chaifan said:

One thing I wasn't clear on - did Helen marry as part of her job as a spy, or did she actually fall in love with Wallace?  

I saw it as part of her job and although she could’ve developed feelings along the way (he’s a decent bloke to me), her affair and the fact that he told her he loved her and their life repeatedly to her face and she said nothing and left, leads me to be she couldn’t care less about him.