S04.E06: The Primary Source

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, shura said:

The “THNTC8R” putting on a dirty coat, backwards, for no apparent reason,

I think we were supposed to assume it was protective clothing to prevent damage to the delicate source material.  Which, irl, would probably look much different, but then Sam wouldn't have thought he was a basement ghost, so . . .

16 hours ago, ams1001 said:

(Though...if the publisher really only does supernatural YA fiction, why were they going to publish a nonfiction book about some unknown Revolutionary War soldier in the first place?)

Maybe they were trying to improve their image by publishing a "prestige" title?

Seriously, though, Isaac Higgintooth, Revolutionary War vampire is so much better.

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I was watching on a large screen TV and got to see Escarghost’s antennae curl down when Trevor told the snail he was “a good boy” right before Escarghost was sucked up.

AWWWWWW.  Wish I'd noticed that.

3 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

Nice callback for Hetty to washing machines, ever since Flower showed her the way back in S2 lol. 

And yes, I think one could easily find a publisher for erotica about household appliances.  There's probably a whole subgenre of it out there somewhere.

 

[PaulE]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It's almost entirely Isaac's work. It's his autobiography, as dictated by him to Sam. She wrote it down, but she just basically typed whatever he said. She may have done some editing here and there but yeah, it wouldn't exist without Isaac.

But was it supposed to be an autobiography?  If so, then of course I agree with you--I often don't remember everything from previous episodes--but I was always under the impression that it was a biography, written in the third person by Sam about Isaac, not an autobiography written in the first person by Isaac.  As the biographer, Sam would have had to do quite a bit of work to craft Isaac's information into a cohesive narrative.  I mean, he supplied the ingredients but she was the one who had to combine them and bake the cake.  If I'm wrong and at some point it was mentioned that it was to be by Isaac, how would they explain an autobiography written by someone who's been dead for 250 years, unless they made up some story about finding a long-lost manuscript?  I just never had the impression that Sam was merely Isaac's (wait for it!) ghost-writer.

[Skooma]

4 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Trevor said something about being the last dead and first to go, but they were pointing out that Trevor is not actually the most recently dead.

I wonder if at some point one of them does get sucked off for real (maybe someone leaves the show for some reason) will we see what's on the other side..?

I doubt it.  It would ruin the show at that point.  And when in the UK version a ghost regular left (actor chose to leave for another opportunity that came up) there was no showing anything "beyond."  Instead the episode was perhaps the most the Brits in the show ever did to show some deep heart and feelings finally as the rest of the ghosts struggle with their loss.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I found that line confusing as well. They probably only meant that Carol, and not Trevor, was officially the "last in" (most recent ghost) but the framing of it did suggest maybe Carol got sucked off, which would explain why we've not seen nor heard about her all season....

I'm uncomfortable thinking about what might have happened to Trevor's dog. We don't know how long it took for someone to notice he was missing, since his co-workers wouldn't have reported it, in all probability. I kind of wish Trevor had clarified he left the dog with his parents or someone during that weekend.

We clearly saw Carol and that Brit soldier are an item and she is off with him.  No other updates means they are still an item off screen basically getting rid of two extra ghosts most viewers don't care about as in out of site, out of mind.

And do not fret about Bucky.  The dog, like everyone else on the show, is fiction and never existed to start with.  🐕

Edited December 6 by Skooma

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Trevor said something about being the last dead and first to go, but they were pointing out that Trevor is not actually the most recently dead.

I loved Thor's meta response to the reminder Carol is actually the most recent ghost addition:  "I think he was just referring to the core eight."

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, Skooma said:

And do not fret about Bucky.  The dog, like everyone else on the show, is fiction and never existed to start with.  🐕

Oh, that's a relief.

[ams1001]

3 hours ago, Skooma said:

I doubt it.  It would ruin the show at that point.  

True...maybe in the series finale..?

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I loved Thor's meta response to the reminder Carol is actually the most recent ghost addition:  "I think he was just referring to the core eight."

Thanks; I knew one of them said something about the eight but couldn't remember the line or who said it.

[Chit Chat]

In regard to Bucky, since Trevor's parents stayed at the mansion after learning of his death there, maybe Sam could come up with some excuse to call one of them and ask about the dog.  She could say she's doing some kind of small tribute to him as part of the hotel's history and then ask about the dog in the obituary photo.  If it's news that would upset Trevor, she wouldn't have to tell him, but if it's something that would give him closure, that would be nice.  

[Katy M]

22 hours ago, ams1001 said:

(Though...if the publisher really only does supernatural YA fiction, why were they going to publish a nonfiction book about some unknown Revolutionary War soldier in the first place?)

Because it was just that good.

[Annber03]

9 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

Alberta was really funny again with her observations. When Thor was talking about not eating/eating the snail, her follow-ups to his 'assurances' were hysterical. 

I loved when she said something to the effect of, "...how many of his animal friends has he eaten?" 

Quote

Nice callback for Hetty to washing machines, ever since Flower showed her the way back in S2 lol. 

"The Maytag Chronicles" XD. I'd read it. 

Also loved her reaction upon hearing about that one romance series that was being published. "I'm listening.."

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Pete's obnoxious turn seems to be something the writers want us to notice, so…

I too think there will be some denouement regarding Pete's personality change, currently demonstrated by his bitterness etc.

Yep. Between this and Isaac's whole "be a better person!" vow he made at the beginning of this season, that seems to me to be the theme of sorts for this season. Pete's still riding high on the cool and exciting nature of his power, Isaac's still wresting with some personal stuff, both in relation to Nigel and his past in general, and so on. Hence a lot of why they're acting as they are now. I don't know how much this theme will play out for the other ghosts as well, but yeah, I think that's where they're going this season, and as time goes on we'll get to see them learn a few things and change accordingly. 

I didn't mind Pete's whole running joke with the wresting thing, myself, just 'cause it was so random and the stuff he was yelling out was hilarious. But Sasappis' constant annoyance over it was equally as funny :p. 

7 hours ago, PaulE said:

For me, there was a poignancy about this whole diary thing because it showed once again how Isaac lives in his own fictional universe.  Think about it:  he's in the middle of combat surrounded by great men such as Washington, but all he writes about is sandwiches.  He can't even keep a worthwhile diary!  Yet he actually believed it (like himself) was more substantial and important than it was.  It must have been awfully embarrassing for that to be revealed to everyone (at least, it would be if it were me).  It makes you wonder how much of the war experiences he related to Sam are actually true.  The poor guy, annoying though he can be, never gets a break, does he?  I'm beginning to believe that the only substantial thing he ever truly did was crap himself to death, and even in that he was only one of thousands who died the same way.

I genuinely thought we'd either find out the diary wasn't there, but some other item was, something either from that time period or which belonged to him spsecifically and which brought back some sort of significant/poignant memory for him. Either that, or the diary would reveal something of that sort, some other secret or long forgotten entry that he'd kept to himself all this time for some reason or another. Honestly, that's the only thing I wish had been different about the episode, 'cause it would've been a good opportunity to get a little more of that kind of backstory. 

But yeah, I really like your point about how his whole life is a fictional universe, because he's spent so long constructing this whole facade of the kind of man he wanted to be and felt others wanted him to be. It is very sad when you think about it like that, and yet it also explains so much about why he's been struggling as he has lately, be it in his relationship with Nigel or with trying to come to terms iwth his legacy or his long-running jealousy of Hamilton or so on. It's a really interesting element of his character for me, and I'll be curious to see how they continue this thread/storyline for him as the season goes on. 

And yeah, I too wonder how much of what he told Sam for his autobiography was true and how much wasn't. Shame we didn't get more scenes of them having those little meetings when she was working on the book, would've been interesting to see what all was discussed during them and how many questions Sam asked him about the stories he shared with her and so on. Maybe they'll touch on that more whenever the book comes up again. 

(I also hope we get to actually see this book now, if only because I would love to see what a YA book about vampire Isaac would look like :p.)

[iMonrey]

5 hours ago, PaulE said:

As the biographer, Sam would have had to do quite a bit of work to craft Isaac's information into a cohesive narrative.  I mean, he supplied the ingredients but she was the one who had to combine them and bake the cake.

Sam is pretending it's a biography she researched and wrote herself, but in truth it was all dictated to her by Isaac. We don't really know how much editing she did on her own. My point is, it's certainly just as much Isaac's as it is Sam's, if not more so.

4 hours ago, Skooma said:

We clearly saw Carol and that Brit soldier are an item and she is off with him.  No other updates means they are still an item off screen basically getting rid of two extra ghosts most viewers don't care about as in out of site, out of mind.

Carol went off with Baxter at the end of last season. But this season, we have already been to the shed once, and while Baxter was there, Carol was not. (It was when Isaac volunteered to live in the shed so Nigel could stay in the house.) I'm relatively sure the show will circle back to this eventually, but the fact is we haven't seen Carol at all this season, whereas we have seen Baxter in the shed. That's why I wondered if maybe she got sucked off.

[Lugal]

This one was fun, even if they went a little hard on some of the bits.  It would be interesting to see Sam side with Jay over the Ghosts for once.  I'm not sure where they're going with Pete, and I understand it, he has a new power and thinks he's all that, but he is more annoying than he's been. I do wonder if they're setting up for a dramatic bit later.

The escarghost was a beautifully done story. Kudos to Asher Grodman, I never thought that Trevor would be one of my favorite ghosts.  As for Bucky, I assume that when Trevor went missing, one of the first places people would check would be his apartment and find Bucky.  I love the escarghost getting sucked off at a snail's pace.

I get for Sam it can be confusing but does she bother? Like Pete said with the reenactor, the Nike's were a dead giveaway (But what kind of reenactor wears Nikes?) And I'll assume all the real ghosts at Ft. Ticonderoga have learned to avoid the tourists.

If the show was smart we would have a tie in novel: Isaac Higgentooth: Revolutionary War Vampire.

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Realistically (I know, I know) I'm not sure how much Isaac would really know about vampires. While the lore did exist during his time it was not popularized until Bram Stoker published Dracula in 1897. 

Actually Varney the Vampire was popular in penny dreadfuls in the 1840s and John Polidori's "The Vampyre" was the first English vampire story in 1819 (which came from the same circumstances that produced Mary Shelley's Frankenstein).  Still after Isaac's time though.  I assume that he heard about vampires in the time since he died (although he didn't know about dinosaurs).

Edited December 7 by Lugal

[Chit Chat]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm uncomfortable thinking about what might have happened to Trevor's dog.

I'm confident that whoever had Bucky while Trevor was away before he died would've have taken care of him.  Odds are that a friend or family took the dog in once they knew he was gone.  Unlike cats, whom you can usually leave at home with a self-feeder for a few days, dogs have to either be with someone, or if left in a safe, fenced-in backyard, would need a daily check by someone.  I don't think that Trevor had that kind of setup, so I'm sure the dog was left with someone he trusted. 

I'm loving Alberta's running commentary on each situation, much like I enjoy listening to Sass's snark. 

Edited December 7 by Chit Chat
added thoughts!

[kathyk2]

Sam should start writing fiction based on the ghost's deaths. Murder on New Year's Eve or Murder at the Prom would be best sellers. Can a ghost lose their power? I'd love for that to happen to Pete. I wonder which version is closer to him while he was alive. I wish Carol could tell us.

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Can a ghost lose their power? I'd love for that to happen to Pete

Hmmm. Maybe they will go there. 

 

1 hour ago, Lugal said:

It would be interesting to see Sam side with Jay over the Ghosts for once. 

Those moments remind me that ghosts have a long tradition of haunting the living. If Sam doesn't want the ghosts making her life a living hell, she needs to placate them — although in this show it's more like she's managing toddlers having tantrums.

I hope we get a moment with Jay and Sam talking outside the grounds about how they let the ghosts think Jay doesn't know he's getting Sonic food, and Sam tells Jay how sweet it is of him to share his Sonic food aromas with the ghosts and give them something to gossip about at the same time. 

[iMonrey]

When Hetty told Trevor it wasn't his fault he died, it struck me that it was, in fact, kind of his fault. He played drug roulette with his "bros" and his heart exploded. 

In fact a case could be made that most of the ghosts are at fault for their own deaths. Certainly Hetty was, as was Flower and Pete. Less so perhaps for Thor, although he should have known better than to walk through a lightning storm wearing a metal hat. 

I suppose it wasn't Isaac's fault since they didn't really know about germs in his time, and we still don't know how Sass died, strangely. 

At any rate, I just thought it was interesting they would try to tell Trevor it wasn't his fault that he died.

[kathyk2]

34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

When Hetty told Trevor it wasn't his fault he died, it struck me that it was, in fact, kind of his fault. He played drug roulette with his "bros" and his heart exploded. 

In fact a case could be made that most of the ghosts are at fault for their own deaths. Certainly Hetty was, as was Flower and Pete. Less so perhaps for Thor, although he should have known better than to walk through a lightning storm wearing a metal hat. 

I suppose it wasn't Isaac's fault since they didn't really know about germs in his time, and we still don't know how Sass died, strangely. 

At any rate, I just thought it was interesting they would try to tell Trevor it wasn't his fault that he died.

Trevor's "friends" threw his body in the lake instead of calling an ambulance. Hetty was very sweet in that moment.

[Starchild]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Thor...should have known better than to walk through a lightning storm wearing a metal hat.

Should he? Did the Vikings know the science behind lightning rods in the 800s?

[shura]

11 hours ago, Lugal said:

And I'll assume all the real ghosts at Ft. Ticonderoga have learned to avoid the tourists.

Why do you think the ghosts would want to avoid the tourists?  Sure, sometimes the ghosts would want their peace and quiet, but at other times aren’t tourists entertainment?

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

In fact a case could be made that most of the ghosts are at fault for their own deaths.

Not Alberta, of course.  We all know whose son’s fault that was.

[Lugal]

3 hours ago, shura said:

Why do you think the ghosts would want to avoid the tourists?  Sure, sometimes the ghosts would want their peace and quiet, but at other times aren’t tourists entertainment?

Because the livings want to avoid the tourists?  In all seriousness, I suspect that a lot of tourists would mean they are more likely to get walked through. We saw what the ghosts imaged the Woodstone would be like as a hotel with crowds everywhere.  A touristy location would be even worse.

[iMonrey]

13 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Trevor's "friends" threw his body in the lake instead of calling an ambulance. Hetty was very sweet in that moment.

Agreed, Hetty was being very sensitive. But whether medics could have arrived in time to save Trevor is something we'll never know. My point remains, he died as a direct result of something he did to himself. I get that they'd played this "game" before but geez, what a dangerous thing to do, not even knowing what kind of pills they were taking.

4 hours ago, shura said:

Not Alberta, of course.  We all know whose son’s fault that was.

I guess you could make a case that drinking from a bottle of booze left at her door without knowing who left it there was kind of a dumb move on her part. 

I'm just trying to piece together whether the reason they remained earthbound is because they were somehow responsible for their own deaths. 

[Skooma]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I'm just trying to piece together whether the reason they remained earthbound is because they were somehow responsible for their own deaths. 

Nope.  Not at all.  There is no great "reason" in this show or the original UK version other then the writers of both wanted to create interesting and fun characters.

The UK regular ghost that left cause the actor got another job opportunity they wanted to take had no reason whatsoever for that ghost leaving in the episode. 

Spoiler

She was an innocent peasant woman falsely accused of being a witch and burned at the stake.  She gave no indication to anyone that she could possibly be into witchcraft.  A couple of men for their own reasons decided to accuse her and got her arrested.

And that ghost didn't do anything to themselves in any way whatsoever to bring about their death to start with as explained in the spoiler above.  There was no big redemptive arc.  There was just a quick like maybe 15 seconds at most "something is happening" moment out of the clear blue with no lead up to it at all and the ghost got sucked off.  Period.

It's just a comedy show.  A light, popular TV entertainment.  Not a theological or philosophical seminar we are watching. 

Edited December 8 by Skooma

[RedHawk]

On 12/6/2024 at 1:12 AM, Bastet said:

Pete is frequently unbearable this season.  I really don't know what they're doing with him.

I found myself liking Bitter Pete better than Pollyanna Pete. I like that he's annoying, especially to Sass. If nothing else, the character being so positive and upbeat all the time would get old so seeing this side of him is fun. 

[Bastet]

Just now, RedHawk said:

If nothing else, the character being so positive and upbeat all the time would get old so seeing this side of him is fun. 

Oh, it got old in a hurry for me; I can't stand being around people like that for any length of time.  But the others' reactions to him made it worthwhile and then some.  In this new dynamic, though, the reactions are no longer saving it for me. 

[Annber03]

19 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

I'm loving Alberta's running commentary on each situation, much like I enjoy listening to Sass's snark. 

Isaac talking about his surrender at Fort Ticonderoga, and Sasappis being like, "This guy was unrivaled in running away!" XD. 

(And then Isaac just completely missing the burn and being like, "Oh, thank you, Sass!" Oh, Isaac :p.)

8 hours ago, shura said:

Not Alberta, of course.  We all know whose son’s fault that was.

"And don't bring up the 'my son killed you' thing again, that's getting played out." 

2 hours ago, Skooma said:

Nope.  Not at all.  There is no great "reason" in this show or the original UK version other then the writers of both wanted to created interesting and fun characters.

The UK regular ghost that left cause the actor got another job opportunity they wanted to take had no reason whatsoever for that ghost leaving in the episode. 

  Hide contents

She was an innocent peasant woman falsely accused of being a witch and burned at the stake.  She gave no indication to anyone that she could possibly be into witchcraft.  A couple of men for their own reasons decided to accuse her and got her arrested.

And that ghost didn't do anything to themselves in any way whatsoever to bring about their death to start with as explained in the spoiler above.  There was no big redemptive arc.  There was just a quick like maybe 15 seconds at most "something is happening" moment out of the clear blue with no lead up to it at all and the ghost got sucked off.  Period.

It's just a comedy show.  A light, popular TV entertainment.  Not a theological or philosophical seminar we are watching. 

Yep. The ghosts may have their own theories as to why they're still here and why some ghosts get sucked off, but if there are any bigger reasons why they're still here and why some ghosts are able to move on, it's not just one reason. It's probably a mix of a bunch of reasons, and even among the ghosts themselves their reasons for still being here may vary. 

(I also still believe, in these particular ghosts' case, now they've got Sam and Jay here and their afterlives actually get to be exciting and fun again, they actually don't want to leave, despite their occasional claims to the contrary :).)

But yeah, regarding the whole "it's not your fault" thing with Trevor, I kind of feel like that's just the attitude they've developed in general regarding their deaths - it happened, it can't be undone, they've already beat themselves up enough over the years/decades/centuries over what they could've and should've done differently the day they each died, and so on, and Trevor was already feeling guilty enough about his dog. So those words were mainly more to just try and ease his guilt than anything.

(That, and it was a good save given Hetty was sticking her foot in her mouth with the reminder that Trevor's dog would be long gone by now :p.)

[ams1001]

14 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

(That, and it was a good save given Hetty was sticking her foot in her mouth with the reminder that Trevor's dog would be long gone by now :p.)

I totally accept that Trevor's dog is still a 35-year-old puppy.

If he does get sucked off some day, I hope Bucky is waiting for him.

[Bastet]

Just now, Annber03 said:

(I also still believe, in these particular ghosts' case, now they've got Sam and Jay here and their afterlives actually get to be exciting and fun again, they actually don't want to leave, despite their occasional claims to the contrary :).)

Trevor was pretty damn excited in the moment he thought it was happening, not just talking about it speculatively, so I don't think that's true.  They're enjoying their afterlives far more than they used to, but eternity is still an unbearably long time (even for the one - of the core eight - who has been doing it for the shortest time). 

Edited December 7 by Bastet

[Annber03]

True, but then there was their reactions when they'd learned someone had been sucked off last season, too, and they were all concerned about it being someone in their little group. Sure, in that case it was more the idea that they were losing one of thier own, but the fact that it was happening again to somebody did seem to rattle them a little. I think they tend to swing back and forth with those kinds of feelings - one minute they'll be eager to leave, for the reasons you note, and then the next they'll have a thought of, "But maybe I'm not ready to go/don't want to go just yet...". 

[shura]

5 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I think they tend to swing back and forth with those kinds of feelings - one minute they'll be eager to leave, for the reasons you note, and then the next they'll have a thought of, "But maybe I'm not ready to go/don't want to go just yet...". 

That is probably true.  Yes, this is eternity, but it’s a known and reasonably enjoyable one.  Being sucked off may very well mean transitioning to another eternity, one that they don’t actually know anything about.  Who is to say that it’s not going to be all emails and Zooms that should have been emails, too?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I totally accept that Trevor's dog is still a 35-year-old puppy.

Hey. Maybe the writers were hinting at Trevor reuniting with his ghost dog?
Maybe ghost animals can travel more than ghost people?

[ams1001]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Hey. Maybe the writers were hinting at Trevor reuniting with his ghost dog?
Maybe ghost animals can travel more than ghost people?

I wonder if ghost animals know they're ghosts...or are they just confused that they can no longer touch things and most people don't see them...

[shapeshifter]

20 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I wonder if ghost animals know they're ghosts...or are they just confused that they can no longer touch things and most people don't see them...

A confused ghost dog seems sad to me. 
Since:

On 12/6/2024 at 2:57 AM, shapeshifter said:

watching on a large screen TV and got to see Escarghost’s antennae curl down when Trevor told the snail he was “a good boy” right before Escarghost was sucked up.

I'm going to assume they adapt.

[ams1001]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

A confused ghost dog seems sad to me. 

Yeah..😞

I need to see if I can find that scene...I missed the antennae.

(Edit: couldn't find anything on youtube; might just have to rewatch.)

Edited December 7 by ams1001

[Bastet]

Just now, ams1001 said:

I wonder if ghost animals know they're ghosts...or are they just confused that they can no longer touch things and most people don't see them...

Think of how WTF? we've seen people be when they become ghosts, but at least they have other human ghosts to explain it to them.  An animal wouldn't have anyone to explain it to them in a way they'd explicitly understand, but at least they might feel love from a person in the afterlife the same way they do in life if they run into at least one animal-friendly human ghost like escarghost did.  They'd probably always be confused by being ignored by livings, though.  Thankfully, they established animal ghosts are rare.

44 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

True, but then there was their reactions when they'd learned someone had been sucked off last season, too, and they were all concerned about it being someone in their little group. Sure, in that case it was more the idea that they were losing one of thier own,

Right, just because they want to get sucked off themselves that doesn't mean they're not a little sad and jealous - while still being happy for them - when someone else gets sucked off because now they're left in this after-life existence with one less friend.  Like how they reacted when they thought Flower had been.  On the flip side, having multiple emotions when it happens to someone else doesn't mean they're conflicted about it happening to them. 

I don't see that at all; they've been consistent about getting sucked off as something to hope for (other than Thor saying something schmoopy about spending eternity with Flower), although some seem to want it more than others (poor Hetty really wants it to be her turn).  While they might have multiple emotions about it happening to them (although Trevor just seemed excited, I think if it took as long for people as it did a snail he'd have had more to say to them), just as they do when it happens to someone else, I don't think there's any indication other than the primary emotion is a happy one -- excitement, relief, peace, what have you. 

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Think of how WTF? we've seen people be when they become ghosts, but at least they have other human ghosts to explain it to them.  An animal wouldn't have anyone to explain it to them in a way they'd explicitly understand, but at least they might feel love from a person in the afterlife the same way they do in life if they run into at least one animal-friendly human ghost like escarghost did.  They'd probably always be confused by being ignored by livings, though.  Thankfully, they established animal ghosts are rare.

Right, just because they want to get sucked off themselves that doesn't mean they're not a little sad and jealous - while still being happy for them - when someone else gets sucked off because now they're left in this after-life existence with one less friend.  Like how they reacted when they thought Flower had been.  On the flip side, having multiple emotions when it happens to someone else doesn't mean they're conflicted about it happening to them. 

I don't see that at all; they've been consistent about getting sucked off as something to hope for (other than Thor saying something schmoopy about spending eternity with Flower), although some seem to want it more than others (poor Hetty really wants it to be her turn).  While they might have multiple emotions about it happening to them (although Trevor just seemed excited, I think if it took as long for people as it did a snail he'd have had more to say to them), just as they do when it happens to someone else, I don't think there's any indication other than the primary emotion is a happy one -- excitement, relief, peace, what have you. 

I agree with all of the above. 
But the writers could decide — maybe in the final season — to have the ghosts realize that getting "sucked off" probably, well, sucks, and that they are as close to "heaven" as there likely is. 
While it's true that they seem to miss food A. Lot., they aren't hungry and can enjoy the aromas. 
I don't know. 
But I do appreciate how this show brings up metaphysical, sociological, psychological, and other thought-provoking concepts while still maintaining the basic comedic format.

[Chit Chat]

7 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But the writers could decide — maybe in the final season — to have the ghosts realize that getting "sucked off" probably, well, sucks, and that they are as close to "heaven" as there likely is. 

I would hate to be doomed to years and years of aimlessly wandering around in a limited area, not being able to do anything.  The boredom alone would drive me nuts!  

23 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Think of how WTF? we've seen people be when they become ghosts, but at least they have other human ghosts to explain it to them.  An animal wouldn't have anyone to explain it to them in a way they'd explicitly understand, but at least they might feel love from a person in the afterlife the same way they do in life if they run into at least one animal-friendly human ghost like escarghost did. 

I'm hopeful that when an animal crosses the rainbow bridge, either deceased family and/or other pets are there to meet them.  There is a belief that animals are part of a "collective" in heaven, so maybe they're greeted by a group of animals - a 'heaven's welcome wagon' kind of thing!  🥰

[ItCouldBeWorse]

31 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Right, just because they want to get sucked off themselves that doesn't mean they're not a little sad and jealous - while still being happy for them - when someone else gets sucked off because now they're left in this after-life existence with one less friend.  Like how they reacted when they thought Flower had been.  On the flip side, having multiple emotions when it happens to someone else doesn't mean they're conflicted about it happening to them. 

I don't see that at all; they've been consistent about getting sucked off as something to hope for (other than Thor saying something schmoopy about spending eternity with Flower), although some seem to want it more than others (poor Hetty really wants it to be her turn).  While they might have multiple emotions about it happening to them (although Trevor just seemed excited, I think if it took as long for people as it did a snail he'd have had more to say to them), just as they do when it happens to someone else, I don't think there's any indication other than the primary emotion is a happy one -- excitement, relief, peace, what have you. 

Pants.

(Although I don't think the lack of bothers Trevor very much, because based on the evidence we've seen, he could take off his jacket and wrap it around his waist if he wanted to.)

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Isaac talking about his surrender at Fort Ticonderoga, and Sasappis being like, "This guy was unrivaled in running away!" XD. 

(And then Isaac just completely missing the burn and being like, "Oh, thank you, Sass!" Oh, Isaac :p.)

Isaac is blissfully unaware of his cowardice!  I love his character though!  Think of the snark that Sass could bring if he could use a computer.  Social media platforms would be on fire with his sassy personality!!

[kathyk2]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I found myself liking Bitter Pete better than Pollyanna Pete. I like that he's annoying, especially to Sass. If nothing else, the character being so positive and upbeat all the time would get old so seeing this side of him is fun. 

I think there should be a balance between being a pushover and being obnoxious. Hetty feels ashamed of Thomas's crimes so Alberta shouldn't keep bringing it up. 

[For Cereals]

I hate snails, slugs, worms.  I don’t want to see them.  Could’ve done without that part.

[Paloma]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:36 AM, iMonrey said:

I'm uncomfortable thinking about what might have happened to Trevor's dog. We don't know how long it took for someone to notice he was missing, since his co-workers wouldn't have reported it, in all probability. I kind of wish Trevor had clarified he left the dog with his parents or someone during that weekend.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was uncomfortable about that. Otherwise the episode was quite funny and made Trevor more endearing, but it left me worried that the dog may have died due to lack of water and food. We haven't had a dog for a couple of years, but when we had dogs I always worried that something would happen to us when we were both out and nobody would check on the dogs. (Of course, we boarded them when we went away overnight or longer.)

[Bastet]

Trevor - the one who knows how long he thought he'd be at Woodstone and thus what arrangements he'd made for his dog and (from being able to read his obituary since Sam came along) when he was reported missing - was not worried his dog may have physically suffered or even died before Trevor's family found out he was missing.  His only worry, after all this time to think about it, was that the dog was emotionally harmed when Trevor didn't come home, so I'm not worried about Bucky's long-term health or happiness -- they were a close family, so I'm sure the parents/brother took him home and loved him for himself and for being the last living link to Trevor.

Edited December 8 by Bastet

[Neptune]

https://collider.com/ghosts-season-4-episode-6-ghost-snail/

[Paloma]

On 12/6/2024 at 8:00 PM, Lugal said:

The escarghost was a beautifully done story. Kudos to Asher Grodman, I never thought that Trevor would be one of my favorite ghosts.  As for Bucky, I assume that when Trevor went missing, one of the first places people would check would be his apartment and find Bucky.  I love the escarghost getting sucked off at a snail's pace.

I agree with the escarghost (love that name!) story and Trevor becoming one of my favorite ghosts. I really was worried about Bucky, so thanks for the reassurance that people would probably check Trevor's apartment soon after he went missing.

[North of Eden]

I grew up less than 30 minutes from Fort Ticonderoga one of our areas biggest tourist attractions so I was very excited when they said they were going there.

I was was interested in seeing their version of the fort. I didn't of course resemble the real fort but was an adequate stand in but I was at least expecting some aerial stock footage of the real fort before cutting to the ground. They did nail  the re-enactors roaming the fort though (except for modern foot wear LOL). 

One would think Jay and Sam would replace the stone as to not alert officials at the fort there was a robbery possibly taking place at worst and vandalism at best.

I kid you not but in Lake Champlain (just off the fort and not shown in the episode) if a diver takes a centuries old cannonball that has been lying on the bottom  unseen for centuries they will be charged with a crime. That's how serious they take it.

I love the show but the one thing I wish theyh would do that old shows like NEWHART did was have the seasons appear in the episode as it should be winter outside the B & B but then I guess you couldn't have done the whole Fort Ti thing.

As for the rest of the episode I was wondering if the authenticator with all his gear would have detected the modern ink but we never even got that far. That was brilliant making him look like a basement ghost.

Not really feeling the whole snail subplot as we've had episodes before that show Trevor really was a sweet guy underneath his whole Wolf of Wall street persona.

Is Pete's ex-wife still on the grounds? I don't understand introducing her and then she's nowhere to be seen for months.

 

 

[NoReally]

On 12/6/2024 at 10:12 AM, appositival said:

Did Escarghost have something to repent or does snail heaven just run very slowly?

I assumed this was the case. He got sucked off after Trevor called him a "good boy," so maybe he (or the powers that be) needed to hear that.

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, Skooma said:

Nope.  Not at all.  There is no great "reason" in this show or the original UK version other then the writers of both wanted to create interesting and fun characters.

22 hours ago, Skooma said:

It's just a comedy show.  A light, popular TV entertainment.  Not a theological or philosophical seminar we are watching. 

See, there's this thing called "willing suspension of disbelief." A well-written show has its own logic, even in a sci-fi or fantasy show. It's how an audience buys into the show and grows to care about the characters. 

Saying "it's just a show, it just happened because the writers want it to" divorces you from that willing suspension of disbelief. 

This is a particularly well-written show, for a network sitcom. It does, in fact, have its own internal logic and continuity. There's a reason why ghosts get sucked off. We saw it happen with Sam's mom, after she was able to mend fences with her daughter. Even if the ghosts themselves don't know exactly what that reason is, or why they remain earthbound, there is some reason for it. 

If you just want to hand-wave all logic as a writer's prerogative to do whatever the hell they want, I don't really understand why you would even want to watch the show or care about it. I, for one, think the writers have done a very good job of making us care. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, North of Eden said:

One would think Jay and Sam would replace the stone as to not alert officials at the fort there was a robbery possibly taking place at worst and vandalism at best.

Yes, that just seemed lazy.

 

[possibilities]

I was shocked that they didn't put the stone back, but maybe they are setting it up for a "theft discovery" plot later? I don't quite know how they'd be discovered-- maybe the place has security cameras? It just seemed like (1) gratuitously sloppy, and (2) notably camera-highlighted. 

[ams1001]

2 hours ago, North of Eden said:

I kid you not but in Lake Champlain (just off the fort and not shown in the episode) if a diver takes a centuries old cannonball that has been lying on the bottom  unseen for centuries they will be charged with a crime. That's how serious they take it.

I live near where the Battle of Monmouth took place, and at the park you are reminded that if you find artifacts (like musket balls) you are not allowed to keep them.

Also, there is a lecture next month about the life of Alexander Hamilton. I wonder if Isaac would like to go..

https://visitnj.org/nj-events/monmouth-battlefield-second-sunday-lecture-series

 

[Skooma]

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

See, there's this thing called "willing suspension of disbelief." A well-written show has its own logic, even in a sci-fi or fantasy show. It's how an audience buys into the show and grows to care about the characters. 

Saying "it's just a show, it just happened because the writers want it to" divorces you from that willing suspension of disbelief. 

...

If you just want to hand-wave all logic as a writer's prerogative to do whatever the hell they want, I don't really understand why you would even want to watch the show or care about it. I, for one, think the writers have done a very good job of making us care. 

Well I guess to each their own is all then.  I can't suspend belief that some comedy I see on TV is actually real.  And why would I even want to.  Especially if the show is full of entertaining ghosts.

I appreciate the job the writers do because I DON'T suspend belief.  How else would I even know there were writers and this was just a show.  Same way I appreciate how an actor may "read" a particular line or even how the editing choices of some scene is done.  It's a TV work of art.  Not reality to me. 🤷‍♂️

Edited December 9 by Skooma