S01.E06: Sixteen Steps

[Boofish]

On 11/15/2024 at 12:21 AM, Bastet said:

I enjoyed this look back, although blech to divorce sex and potential reconciliation at the end; it's so much more interesting for a couple to navigate an amicable divorce. 

The presentation of Olympia was a bit broad in the first few episodes, but she has pointed out white privilege from jump, and that has been increasingly developed, so I have long been all in with her -- in this episode it manifests with her talking to Julian about putting their Black kids in a rich white kids school and then ignoring what she explains about the higher standards to which they'll be held.

I also liked the continuity of Olympia referring to Sarah and Billy by their names instead of "you two".  It's like Olympia and Julian agreeing in episode two to divorce better, and indeed doing so going forward; so many shows will give characters a breakthrough moment of growth that never actually goes anywhere.

Interesting timeline info in this, that it was two years ago Alfie saw the Reddit post and Matty hatched her plan; I figured it was fairly recent, and that's a good span of time to make the details of her plan believable.

I loved the connection between Olympia and Matty as moms.  When Matty's deception is revealed, the complexity of Olympia's reaction is going to be fascinating.

I cannot with people opposed to prenups, but TV loves to parade a string of characters, including lawyers, with that view, so I was annoyed by that sub-plot.  I'm going to laugh really hard if when he brings it up to Claudia, her reaction is, "Of course we're doing a pre-nup; I'm not getting married without one."

I'm also rolling my eyes at EMTs making the call it's all good, rather than transporting to the ER and letting the doctors make that evaluation after a battery of tests.

Just dropped in to confess to being one of those people. 

[seacliffsal]

Okay, I know it's just me, but 16 steps from one side of the baby's room to the other side means that it was a large room.  Which means it was unusually large for NYC.  So, the couple may have some money which leads me to doubt this was a pro-bono case.  Did I miss sonething about the status of Olympia's work?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

Okay, I know it's just me, but 16 steps from one side of the baby's room to the other side means that it was a large room.

That’s a huge baby’s room for anywhere except the Goodnight Moon illustration.

[possibilities]

It makes me happy that I'm not the only person who thinks pre-nups are AWESOME. I think they work like vows, actually. You can write them as a loving thing, that clarifies what you really mean by your commitment, and it doesn't have to kill the loving marriage vibe. 

 

6 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Okay, I know it's just me, but 16 steps from one side of the baby's room to the other side means that it was a large room.  Which means it was unusually large for NYC.  So, the couple may have some money which leads me to doubt this was a pro-bono case.  Did I miss sonething about the status of Olympia's work?

They were also shopping for a law firm and Olympia was trying to convince them to choose her, so that also works against it being a pro bono case.

 

 

 

Edited November 18 by possibilities

[waaay2muchTV]

On 11/15/2024 at 2:40 PM, shapeshifter said:

I must've missed something. 
Twice they showed the flashback of Mattie spilling coffee on Olivia's white suit.
When was that? 

I took it to be when she relocated to NY to start the plan that she was scoping out the firm's location.

[BitterApple]

I think one thing that annoys me about the revenge plot is Matty's inability to see Ellie as anything other than a perfect angel who deserves to have the world burned to the ground in the name of justice. I understand addiction is hard, I also understand a parent's always going to protect their kid, but still. Ellie had all the financial resources to get clean and have a great life and she chose not to. She had a kid to live for and prioritize, and she chose not to. If the law firm did something illegal, then sure they should be held accountable, but Ellie should be too. 

It's also a tad ironic that Matty is crossing so many legal, moral and ethical lines, which is basically what she's accusing the firm of doing. I think the case in this episode showed how, even when you win, you still sometimes lose. It'll be interesting to see how she proceeds when she finds out who hid the documents, especially if it turns out to be Olympia or Julian. 

[Nashville]

At this point it wouldn’t half surprise me if Maddie’s Big Reveal turns out to be:

1. Maddie identifies the “Somebody from Jacobson Moore”who did bury the documents in question - BUT…
2. The J&M employee did so in accordance with a specific set of circumstances whereby not only was the “coverup” NOT illegal - the firm was in fact legally obligated to do so, to honor its attorney/client confidentiality relationship.

[Zaffy]

It takes me less than 16 steps to cross our whole apartment and its a 2 bedrooms quite comfy one (and yes I did try and counted how many steps needed - 15 😁). Where did this couple live? in a castle? And why sleep in the same room as your baby only to  be like 10m away from him?

The flashbacks editing was SO bad that they had to keep having subtitles "the first trial".

It wasn't nice what Maddie did to her old friend, but it wasn't nice either that he surprised  her and insisted to meet her. Still, she could have handled much better and I guess this will somehow bite her in the bum sooner or later.

I think the writing is sloppy, the story is weak and everything relies on Bates' amazing acting skills. 
Cause so far the show  hasn't made me care for most of its main characters. Olympia annoys me, her ex annoys me even more. Olympia's 2 aids are indifferent, only Maddie's hubby seems nice..
Plus, let's be serious here, which firm will hire a 75 years old lady and have her constantly running (literally) after the younger lawyers (that really annoys me, not a single person in this firm seems to care  to walk slower when Maddie has to walk with them).  As a consultant I guess it could be possible, but as a full time lawyer?

It seems Maddie is super rich, I wonder if they gonna tells us how. Did she owned her own firm? If I heard well, they moved to the city, so if they are not locals that explains that she is not in big danger of being recognized (since she is rich and apparently quite successful in the law area). 

The bad writing and the lack of realism have started to weaken my interest in  keep watching this. I will still give it a chance to see where it heading..

[cameron]

On 11/15/2024 at 4:38 PM, AnimeMania said:

The person I feel the worst for is the Baby Formula worker who was trying to be a hero and save the company by holding up the pipe. The Jacobson Moore lawyers put all the blame for the contamination on him, even though there really wasn't any proof that he was to blame. He really wanted to get some justice for the couple and came away thinking that he is the reason that their child is dead. And nobody, the Baby Formula company, the couple, or the Jacobson Moore lawyers are going to think twice about what this has done to him.

Selfish Mattie had no problem blaming this on him and in turn making the guy carry this burden for the rest of his life.  Always ready to place the blame on everyone else.  She needs to look at her own daughter's choices.  Each episode I like Mattie less and less.

 

[peachmangosteen]

26 minutes ago, cameron said:

Selfish Mattie had no problem blaming this on him and in turn making the guy carry this burden for the rest of his life.  Always ready to place the blame on everyone else. 

I mean, she's a lawyer. That's what they do lol.

Matty is never going to 'blame' her daughter for her daughter dying. That's ridiculous. The daughter had a disease.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Zaffy said:

It takes me less than 16 steps to cross our whole apartment and its a 2 bedrooms quite comfy one (and yes I did try and counted how many steps needed - 15 😁). Where did this couple live? in a castle? And why sleep in the same room as your baby only to  be like 10m away from him?

I complained about this too, and it's still bugging me. 
Was it originally "6 steps" and someone said "that sounds too piddly; make it 16"??
Was it originally 8 or 10 steps, and they wanted an alliteration? 
Was it a loft with no rooms? Then say so. 

My 2 grandbabies are now 2¾ years old and ¾ year old, so I remember walking them as infants in the nursery. Even around the room it wasn't 16 steps to make a loop.

 

[schnauzergirl]

I assumed they meant 16 baby/toddler steps.  Yes, mom then "walked" them, but that's grief and emotion talking.  

 

[cameron]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I mean, she's a lawyer. That's what they do lol.

Matty is never going to 'blame' her daughter for her daughter dying. That's ridiculous. The daughter had a disease.

She was taking this personally, not professionally.  The daughter became addicted to drugs because she was using, not like Mattie was a addict and passed it off when we was carrying the baby.

[peachmangosteen]

Addiction is a disease. It feels like there's a bit of a lack of empathy to me and it's driving a lot of hate towards Matty (this is the spelling the show is using).

[peachmangosteen]

The show itself is actually doing a good job with Matty imo. They don't want her to be unlikable and she isn't. Her motivations make sense. But at the same time obviously what she does isn't always right or good. She's human, basically.

[Percysowner]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Addiction is a disease. It feels like there's a bit of a lack of empathy to me and it's driving a lot of hate towards Matty (this is the spelling the show is using).

They are also ignoring that IRL over 300,000 people have died due to fentanyl addiction since the drug was introduced. Even it it can be argued that they were all weak addicts who brought it on themselves, the truth is that the manufacturers and the drug stores that sold it are paying BILLIONS of dollars because THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG. They did things that made the opioid crisis. The manufacturers told doctors they had created a pain killer that worked better than what was out there, which was true, and that it wasn't THAT addictive so it could be prescribed liberally, which was a lie. The producers marketed the drug as useful for many conditions that are painful, instead of limiting it to conditions where is is necessary to relieve pain. They said it was safe, long term, effective. They recommended giving doses that they knew caused dependency. When a panel testified to the FDA about changing the standards for prescribing the opioids to prohibit the use of opioids for chronic, common conditions, somehow 8 of the 10 "independent experts" had ties to the pharmaceutical industry and the panel said, nope all is good.

As of now in the story we don't know HOW Elie became addicted. It is quite likely, given the history of the opioid epidemic that she was prescribed the pills by her doctor for an actual physical injury or pain situation and then, using the guidelines put out by the manufacturers, the doctors started upping the doses and eventually she became fully addicted, just the way the manufacturers KNEW would happen. 

We look down on addicts, but addiction is a disease. In the case of opioids, the opioid fairy didn't drop pills on random people and they got addicted, instead the manufacturers made the pills, set the dosing at addiction levels and made a ton of money. Now, people are dying and, in the worst ramification, doctors are so leery of prescribing opioids that the people they could actually help, people in short term or even long term agony who can not be helped by any other means are being denied proper care.

Matty is doing a lot of suspect things, but labeling her as simply seeing her daughter as perfect, and only being selfish isn't the whole story. She is also looking at making people who she thinks helped implement a long term plan to hurt and kill people for money. Matty has targeted 3 people, 2 of whom may be guilty of nothing. She is pursuing a good cause using bad methods and, at the same time, finding out that the people who did this are, people, with hopes, dreams, flaws, good points and she is going to have to face what SHE is doing to good people, who MIGHT have done bad actions, or who might be innocent. That is the reprehensible side of her crusade.

[Ellee]

In addition to all of the above, I think that Matty is also trying to reconcile not only her daughter’s death but also Matty’s role in ‘not protecting her baby’.   It’s a journey no parent wants to or should have to travel. It doesn’t matter what age his/her child is. 
 

[MissLucas]

I agree that we don't know enough about Ellie to make any judgement about her or Matty and her husband.

In my opinion Matty's worst 'sin' is that she robs her grandson of his childhood. And I'm not just talking about using him as tech support but the way she's feeding his obsession to get revenge for his Mom's death. No matter how justified that may be, it's not healthy for a kid of his age to peruse Reddit *shudders*, help putting up evidence boards, and talk everyday about the 'case'. Even when Alfie is not directly involved his mother's death is always a topic. It's clear that this has become his coping mechanism and it's not a healthy one.

Did Alfie research Reddit on his own or was he inspired to do so by something he overheard? Regardless, his grandparents should have found better ways for him to find closure. 

Still wondering about Alfie's Dad.

[Bastet]

On 11/19/2024 at 4:17 PM, Percysowner said:

She is pursuing a good cause using bad methods and, at the same time, finding out that the people who did this are, people, with hopes, dreams, flaws, good points and she is going to have to face what SHE is doing to good people, who MIGHT have done bad actions, or who might be innocent.

I may be giving the show too much credit, but I think that is going to turn out to be the point.  I don't anticipate Matty uncovering what happened to those documents to be some straightforward thing where someone at the firm did something evil, and Matty is nothing but a hero for having uncovered it.  I think there's going to be nuance to what the attorney did, and I think there's also going to be many, many sides - good and bad - to all Matty winds up doing along the way of this quest of hers, so there will be fallout.

Kathy Bates was ready to quit the industry altogether before this project came along, and she could not resist (and now has no plans to retire).  That gives me hope there are planned layers to this story.

Edited Thursday at 03:09 AM by Bastet

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

I may be giving the show too much credit, but I think that is going to turn out to be the point.  I don't anticipate Matty uncovering what happened to those documents to be some straightforward thing where someone at the firm did something evil, and Matty is nothing but a hero for having uncovered it.  I think there's going to be nuance to what the attorney did, and I think there's also going to be many, many sides - good and bad - to all Matty winds up doing along the way of this quest of hers, so there will be fallout.

Kathy Bates was ready to quit the industry altogether before this project came along, and she could not resist (and now has no plans to retire).  That gives me hope there are planned layers to this story.

That's pretty much been my take on where this is headed. In the end there will be no clear villain or hero in this and many shades of gray.

Also maybe I missed something but just how credible is this Reddit lead anyway? Could it have been made by someone with a grudge against the firm for some reason and the accusation isn't true? 

I don't know how anyone could be so convinced of the accuracy of some anonymous accusation on the internet to go through all of this, but that's me. 

[Bastet]

27 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Also maybe I missed something but just how credible is this Reddit lead anyway? Could it have been made by someone with a grudge against the firm for some reason and the accusation isn't true?

Anything is possible, as you didn't miss anything -- we've been given no additional information on the Reddit post that set this all in motion.  And all we've heard about the hidden documents is that they proved opioids are addictive, and "could have" resulted in the drugs being taken off the market "ten years earlier".  The details of the Reddit post, the documents, and what "ten years earlier" refers to all remain to be revealed.  

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Bastet said:

Anything is possible, as you didn't miss anything -- we've been given no additional information on the Reddit post that set this all in motion.  And all we've heard about the hidden documents is that they proved opioids are addictive, and "could have" resulted in the drugs being taken off the market "ten years earlier".  The details of the Reddit post, the documents, and what "ten years earlier" refers to all remain to be revealed.  

Thanks. As I'm sure you know, "could have" is open to interpretation. Maybe they turned out not to be helpful and that's why they were withheld, but the Reddit person didn't know that. Anyway, there are many ways the basis behind Matty's whole crusade could fall apart on closer inspection.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thanks. As I'm sure you know, "could have" is open to interpretation. Maybe they turned out not to be helpful and that's why they were withheld, but the Reddit person didn't know that. Anyway, there are many ways the basis behind Matty's whole crusade could fall apart on closer inspection.

Exactly, which also gives the writers lots of wiggle room.

[Irlandesa]

On 11/20/2024 at 4:07 PM, Bastet said:

I may be giving the show too much credit, but I think that is going to turn out to be the point.  I don't anticipate Matty uncovering what happened to those documents to be some straightforward thing where someone at the firm did something evil, and Matty is nothing but a hero for having uncovered it.  I think there's going to be nuance to what the attorney did, and I think there's also going to be many, many sides - good and bad - to all Matty winds up doing along the way of this quest of hers, so there will be fallout.

I don't want to place too much hope onto a network show, but this was the first episode where I felt like maybe the writers do see things like this thread has seen things in that what Matty is seeking isn't going to be as straightforward as she thinks.  It's not like she thinks someone pushed her daughter down the stairs and there's an easy villain.  One missing document can't explain the prevalence of opioids and addiction and the show will become convoluted if it tries to make it that simple.

I liked that they showed that her quest is having negative consequences on her health and her grandson.  I didn't expect that.

 

Edited 12 minutes ago by Irlandesa

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I liked that they showed that her quest is having negative consequences on her health and her grandson.  I didn't expect that.

I wasn't either.