Chit-Chat: The Feels

[FilmTVGeek80]

2 hours ago, Quickbeam said:

I am a transplant to the Midwest but grew up in north Jersey. All my family has been hammering me for updates from my battleground state. IMO from where I sit you could see this coming miles away. My family is horrified. I’m not. I think there are large swaths of the Democratic Party which insulate themselves from the day to day of the flyover zone. It feels like coastal elitism. I think a stronger candidate would have beaten Trump. But here we are. 

I'm not trying to attack you, but what does this mean? Insulate themselves from the flyover zone? How? And so Mr. I have a golden toilet in every room of my hotel is somehow a man of the people?

You've said twice that a stronger candidate would have beaten him? Stronger how? Navel lint is more qualified than him. He had "concepts of a plan," and she had plans. She worked in all three branches of government and was vice president. Despite the utter lie that she didn't have detailed policy proposals, she did. She articulated them well. Unlike the orange cone who shouted out sentence fragments about tariffs, evil immigrants, and Hannibal Lector. 

[Soapy Goddess]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And the fact people have the nerve to say that while shrugging off Trump's numerous sexual assault accusations and his affair with a porn star just...really says it all. 

People have been talking about presidential sexual activity since John Kennedy. The only difference now is social media. 

[Annber03]

Not the point I was making. 

27 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I'm not trying to attack you, but what does this mean? Insulate themselves from the flyover zone? How? And so Mr. I have a golden toilet in every room of my hotel is somehow a man of the people?

You've said twice that a stronger candidate would have beaten him? Stronger how? Navel lint is more qualified than him. He had "concepts of a plan," and she had plans. She worked in all three branches of government and was vice president. Despite the utter lie that she didn't have detailed policy proposals, she did. She articulated them well. Unlike the orange cone who shouted out sentence fragments about tariffs, evil immigrants, and Hannibal Lector. 

Speaking as someone who lives in flyover country, this is the part that frustrates me the most. What exactly can the Democrats do at this point. People are mad at them on the one hand for not being progressive enough. 

But then if they do try to be more progressive, they're told they can't go "too far left", whatever the fuck that even means anymore, 'cause they'll alienate voters. Poeple complain about the cost of healthcare all the time, but refuse to support universal healthcare, and if the Democrats propose it, that'll turn voters away. People complain about government aid while they're clutching thier Medicare and Social Security, and while farmers are taking payouts from Trump because his tarriffs fucked them over. 

Voters keep voting agaisnt their self-interests lal the goddamn time and yet they can't figure out why the Democrats arne't reaching out to them anymore, or why they feel they aren't reaching out to them anymore. Instead they whine about "wokeness" and complain the Democrats are too far to the left because they think transgender people deserve rights or women should have access to reproductive rights or same sex marriage should be a thing (remember how that meant someone was 'far left back in the day? Remember all the GOP people who kept saying that those who supported same sex marriage couldn't possibly connect with us in flyover country 'cause those are "New York values", not "real America" values?). 

Clearly the Democrats have a messaging problem, that is for sure, but is it that they don't know how to deliver their message or is it that voters just can't seem to figure out what the hell they want and all the stuff they complain about, stuff that would easily be fixed by so many Democratic policies, is stuff that they refuse to vote for because "SOCIALISM/MARXISM/COMMUNISIM!"* and "Wokeness!". 

They sure as hell can't even run on basic facts, either, because simply stating that climate change is a thing, or that immigrants are not stealing people's jobs or driving up the crime rate, is controversial to some people. 

*We're not even going to get into people's incredibly misguided view of what actual socialism/communism/Marsixm is and looks like. 

Like, for real, what the hell are they supposed to do at this point? Do the voters ever have to take responsibility for their constant insistence on voting against their self-interests over and over again? 

Edited November 7 by Annber03

[JustHereForFood]

11 hours ago, kittykat said:

On a not so lighter note, what do we all think the LWT crew is planning?  Pretty sure next episode is the season finale and I'm certain John Oliver is blowing up 2024 with a musical number that will need to surpass "Eat shit Bob!"

I know people here love him, but I wonder how much he and others who complained so much about Biden helped this situation. Leftists want perfection from their politicians, the other side apparently doesn't have such problem to get behind their candidate.

 

9 hours ago, tearknee said:

About Gaza -- as with their grandparents (my parents) generation and North Vietnam, *all* of the Palestinian people will NOT be "liberated" by any of the Palestinian groups with any effective power. Not caring who they are siding with is why i despise these "Free, Free Palestine" lot.

Honestly, people who shout terrorist slogans and complain about genocide while calling for the end of Israel using genocidal rhetoric can miss me. Not talking about anybody here, but there is a huge issue with terrorist stans on the leftist side of the internet and it is frightening. I am far from an expert on the topic, but I doubt that many of those people are either, or truly care about people who live there.

 

8 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Can confirm this. I work with kids who are almost all immigrants and POC. Andrew Tate and Joe Rogan are hugely popular. Many girls want to be trad wife influencers. Its shocking.

Social media is destroying this world.

[Soapy Goddess]

7 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Social media is destroying this world

I couldn't agree more!

[Anela]

36 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

People have been talking about presidential sexual activity since John Kennedy. The only difference now is social media. 

She was talking about sexual assault, not a private sex life.

[FilmTVGeek80]

13 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

People have been talking about presidential sexual activity since John Kennedy. The only difference now is social media. 

There's a pretty big difference between talking about politicians and their affairs and talking about sexual assault. Plus, that wasn't the point. It was about the astounding hypocrisy of some people judging Harris for what they assumed was her sleeping her way to the top versus shrugging off a disgusting pervert accused multiple times of sexual assault (including being found liable for it in court.)

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Clearly the Democrats have a messaging problem, that is for sure, but is it that they don't know how to deliver their message or is it that voters just can't seem to figure out what the hell they want and all the stuff they complain about, stuff that would easily be fixed by so many Democratic policies, is stuff that they refuse to vote for because "SOCIALISM/MARXISM/COMMUNISIM!"* and "Wokeness!"

I honestly think it's the latter. I've heard a lot about the Democrats' messaging issue, but I thought they were far more aggressive during this campaign. Yet I constantly heard about how no one knew what Kamala's policies were. It felt like some people were either being purposely obtuse or just refusing to hear what she was offering.

4 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I know people here love him, but I wonder how much he and others who complained so much about Biden helped this situation. Leftists want perfection from their politicians, the other side apparently doesn't have such problem to get behind their candidate.

I always hated this. I get that comedians always take shots at politicians and that no one should be off-limits, but I felt like most late-night comics never really gave Biden credit for everything he did.

[tearknee]

It's not the "great unwashed" refusing to listen -- see also many (though not all) left-leaning feminist activists refusing to admit that about the average boy and man, as well -- but the reality that, broadly it is leftist tactics and approach that have been wrong and they have yet to drop them after decades and look for something that will work -- Wile E. Coyte and the Roadrunner. Again, and again and again...

[andromeda331]

Even though I tried to be optimistic about so many people including Republicans saying they were voting for Harris. I couldn't. I knew Trump would win. I'm still horrified that so many people would vote for him. When he won in 2016 I was sickened and horrified. I knew he would be a horrible president and I was still shocked by how terrible he is. He's a racist, he admires dictators, cares about no one but himself, he didn't care how many people died during the pandemic while he did nothing, he's a convicted felon, he instigated a coup because he lost. He wants to deport immigrents, punish women for having abortions, put a conspiracy nut in charge of the countries health care. The list goes on and on. And millions of people just voted him back in. 

[Palimelon]

Quote

Honestly, people who shout terrorist slogans and complain about genocide while calling for the end of Israel using genocidal rhetoric can miss me. Not talking about anybody here, but there is a huge issue with terrorist stans on the leftist side of the internet and it is frightening. I am far from an expert on the topic, but I doubt that many of those people are either, or truly care about people who live there.

Being pro-Palestinian or sympathetic to people living under a brutal system of apartheid and occupation even before the genocide began doesn't make one a terrorist stan.

The majority of people are saying "Free Palestine" and "End the genocide", neither of which are genocidal rhetoric.

And saying people aren't educated about the subject or that they truly care about the people there is BS.

[Palimelon]

Quote

But then if they do try to be more progressive, they're told they can't go "too far left", whatever the fuck that even means anymore, 'cause they'll alienate voters. Poeple complain about the cost of healthcare all the time, but refuse to support universal healthcare, and if the Democrats propose it, that'll turn voters away. People complain about government aid while they're clutching thier Medicare and Social Security, and while farmers are taking payouts from Trump because his tarriffs fucked them over. 

To many people, what was once the left is now the center, what was the center is now the right, and what was the right is now fascist.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the long game of the Republicans, which in some ways has led to the center and mainstream shifting more and more to the right, with the left and the Democrats shifting more and more to the right over time.

Not just a US problem. In France Macron spoke of working with the right wing parties instead of the left wing parties after their election, which wasn't appreciated by many people.

Quote

Like, for real, what the hell are they supposed to do at this point? Do the voters ever have to take responsibility for their constant insistence on voting against their self-interests over and over again? 

Until the voters realize that most of the culture wars and talk of immigrants and woke is just a distraction from allowing corporations and billionaires to keep making more and more money (with the media overall complicit in this), people are going to keep going after the scapegoats. And unfortunately, the Democrats and left can only do so much, as they too are beholden to some of their corporate sponsors who don't have the people's best interests at heart.

[nokat]

23 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

P2025 has been thrown around so much, I don't think anyone really knows what it is or what it entails.

Oh, we know what it entails. 

[Soapy Goddess]

59 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

some people judging Harris for what they assumed was her sleeping her way to the top

Didn't she thought? She was the first candidate to drop out of the 2020 presidential race. And when Biden decided not to run, he handed her the nomination. She didn't have to do anything to earn that nomination.  

[Anela]

4 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Didn't she thought? She was the first candidate to drop out of the 2020 presidential race. And when Biden decided not to run, he handed her the nomination. She didn't have to do anything to earn that nomination.  

She has been the vice president for almost four years.  Are you implying that she slept with him, to get the job?

I’m going to try to sleep! Finally. 

Edited November 7 by Anela

[Palimelon]

But why automatically assume she was chosen by Biden because she had sex with the right people?

[Soapy Goddess]

1 minute ago, Anela said:

She has been the vice president for almost four years.  Are you implying that she slept with him, to get the job?

I’m going to try to sleep! Finally. 

No. I thought you meant the word "sleeping" as a metaphor.

[nokat]

1 minute ago, Palimelon said:

But why automatically assume she was chosen by Biden because she had sex with the right people?

That was so evil, I can't reply directly. Oh, the only way smart women can advance is by sex. So horribly sexist.

[Soapy Goddess]

2 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

But why automatically assume she was chosen by Biden because she had sex with the right people?

Not at all. She was chosen to further his presidency. 

[Palimelon]

But that isn't what you implied.

Someone made a comment about how people were assuming Harris slept her way to the top.

Then you replied:

Quote

Didn't she thought? She was the first candidate to drop out of the 2020 presidential race. And when Biden decided not to run, he handed her the nomination. She didn't have to do anything to earn that nomination.  

So again, why assume she had to make the beast with two backs to get any job or nomination at all?

 

[nokat]

4 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

But that isn't what you implied.

Someone made a comment about how people were assuming Harris slept her way to the top.

Then you replied:

So again, why assume she had to make the beast with two backs to get any job or nomination at all?

 

Oh, she didn't do anything? Like get a law degree? Go ahead, pass the bar exam.

 

That was meant for who you replied to.

Edited November 7 by nokat

[nokat]

1 minute ago, Palimelon said:

Oh, I'm sure people will say it was all a DEI thing if they don't go the "slept her way to the top" angle.

I've heard/read that too.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, marina to said:

This drove me freaking insane. Screw this bullshit about her being a weak candidate. If it were a man with her resume and oratory skills no one would be saying it. I'm tired of being nice about it. I entered the workforce in the 80s and I can't believe we're still dealing with this bs. It's sexism, pure and simple.

It is sexism. But unfortunately to win in spite of being on the receiving end of both racism and sexism she would have to be 10 times more effective at oratory skills and connecting with the voters than she should have to be. It's not a strike against her, she is worthy and qualified, it's that she already has a disadvantage and to overcome that she has to be 10 times better at everything, including connecting with and convincing voters who might have prejudices against her. In our culture there is a higher expectation on women to be "warm" and "likeable" than men and that worked against her. Women have been complaining for generations that they have to be 10 times better and more driven than a man at everything to move up into to higher positions, but it's not just that. They also have to be "congenial" in a non-threatening way too. It's a no-win situation.

Also sexism makes people less inclined to pay attention to a woman (especially an older one) no matter how qualified or good she is and I think that contributed to why Kamala was unable to grab the spotlight from Trump. That's an even taller order with Trump unfortunately because he is that charismatic that he grabs people's attention and gets their support in spite of just about anything. Kamala would have had to be much more forceful to counteract that, but then that would not be seen as attractive from a woman. I wonder how Obama would have fared running against Trump in this election.  I'm thinking he would have fared better.

ETA: I actually think the sexism might be worse now than it was in 2016. People were willing to "hold their nose" and vote for Hillary even if they didn't like her but now with the toxic manosphere making men, especially young men more sexist they might be more likely not to vote for a woman in general and more attracted to Trump's misogynistic messages, not to mention his lies about Kamala making them afraid to vote for her.

Edited November 7 by Yeah No

[FilmTVGeek80]

53 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Didn't she thought? She was the first candidate to drop out of the 2020 presidential race. And when Biden decided not to run, he handed her the nomination. She didn't have to do anything to earn that nomination.  

I'm trying not to be mean, but it feels like you're deliberately missing the point. First of all, her sleeping her way into any position is a rumor. And, let's say she did sleep her way into some of her jobs; if people are seriously more disgusted with that than with someone being a RAPIST, then that is pathetic and sad. 

Also, you seem to be connecting things that have no connection. What does her being the first one to drop out of the 2020 race have to do with her alleged sexual past? Unless you're alleging she and Biden were having sex, what does that have to do with being handed the nomination - which she wasn't?

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

The list goes on and on. And millions of people just voted him back in. 

And millions of people didn’t care enough to vote to stop it from happening, and honestly I don’t know which group I hate more.

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I honestly think it's the latter. I've heard a lot about the Democrats' messaging issue, but I thought they were far more aggressive during this campaign. Yet I constantly heard about how no one knew what Kamala's policies were. It felt like some people were either being purposely obtuse or just refusing to hear what she was offering.

Amazing, isn't it, how the "Do my own research!" crowd never, ever seems to use that ability to research stuff like this? No, they only ever seem to do that when it comes to looking up stuff that backs up whatever batshit stupid conspiracy theory nonsense they want to believe. 

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

To many people, what was once the left is now the center, what was the center is now the right, and what was the right is now fascist.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the long game of the Republicans, which in some ways has led to the center and mainstream shifting more and more to the right, with the left and the Democrats shifting more and more to the right over time.

Not just a US problem. In France Macron spoke of working with the right wing parties instead of the left wing parties after their election, which wasn't appreciated by many people.

Pretty much sums it up. I mean, I don't know how a party that got endorsements from the freaking CHENEYS and many from Trump's adminstration who joined in actively warning people about him can possibly stil be seen as "radical leftists", but okay. Evidently terms and their definitions don't mean anything to some people anymore. 

To say nothing of how a big reason so many people refuse to vote for good policies is because they're just so terrified that "those other people" (read women and minorities) might also get something that they think they alone are entiteld to. Some people really never learned how to share their toys in kindergarten, evidently. 

2 hours ago, Palimelon said:

Oh, I'm sure people will say it was all a DEI thing if they don't go the "slept her way to the top" angle.

Yep. Women and minorities apparently never just earned their jobs or worked hard for them. No, in some people's eyes they were clearly nothing more than diversity hires or used other methods to get to where they are. When people say, "Just let the best person who can do the job get the job", they only mean white men, as that group are apparently the only ones who ever get thier jobs fair and square and never ever have had thier race or gender be a factor in why they got a position. 

Thanks to those who understood the point I was making regarding Harris versus Trump, too.

[Blergh]

I don't claim to know what the future will be but of one thing I am certain: as long as I have the ability to legally vote in any future election where there is more than one choice, I WILL be voting and I refuse to waste that right that so many folks fought for . ..and literally died for!

Yes, I am aware that it's possible that my vote may be tossed in the scrapheap but I'm not about give up my right to state my POV at the polling place as long as I have that right!

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Hi everyone, 

kindly note that Soapy Goddess assumed that "sleeping" was meant as a metaphor.
There's no issue in discussing the bigger picture of the stereotype that successful women are often assumed to "move up the ladder" by sleeping with someone, however, as Soapy Goddess explained the misundestanding, please consider not replying to Soapy Goddess directly anymore. 

As far as the discussion about transgender athletes is concerned, there's little data but generally, studies have found that trans individuals become more similar to their gender identity following gender affirming hormone therapy. NIH research also notes that developmental gender differences become more apparant during and after puperty. Here are a couple of links NIH research and a summary of an IOC study

With that said, thank you for a (largely) respectful discussion yesterday. Let's keep it up today! 

[DrSpaceman73]

I feel like we are in the lion King at the part of the movie where scar takes over

 

Except everyone knows he killed Mufasa and doesn't care because he promised them free unlimited dear meat, or whatever African lions eat. 

[Palimelon]

The problem is, who would be Simba? Slim pickings at this point, if there are any.

[SeanBug]

I just watched The Daily Show from last night. The guest was Tressie MacMillan Cottom, a professor at UNC and a columnist for NYT. 

Her explanation as to what happened was the best take I've seen so far. She explained as best she could how Trump pulled this off, and what the Democrats did wrong.  It was calming and enlightening to just hear someone not call people names, but explain how a lot of Americans feel about the country. 

https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1854356455580651851?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

I don't know if this link will work for everyone, but if you'd like to see a thoughtful discussion of the results of the election, check it out here or on another platform.

[DrSpaceman73]

23 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

The problem is, who would be Simba? Slim pickings at this point, if there are any.

That is the Democrats problem right now. They don't have one. But they better find them quick and plan for 3vyears from now when the process starts again. 

[Browncoat]

13 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

they immigrated "the right way" and were "escaping communism."

We had a candidate in Virginia who used exactly that argument.  I thought it was terribly ironic (and hypocritical) for an immigrant to run on an anti-immigration platform.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

The problem is, who would be Simba? Slim pickings at this point, if there are any.

What scares me is in response to this far right shift is the next Democratic candidate will be a Trump wannabe with a D beside their name.

 

[PRgal]

59 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

What scares me is in response to this far right shift is the next Democratic candidate will be a Trump wannabe with a D beside their name.

 

Singing Hakuna Matata with Pumba and Timon.  
 

What’s interesting was that many minorities (including Latinos) DID vote red:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna178951

 

 

[Palimelon]

Yeah, a lot of non-white people seemed to focus on Trump's promise of lower prices, being tougher on immigration, lower taxes, etc. And more of them aligning to the same family values as the right is also worrying.

'It's simple, really' - why Latinos flocked to Trump's working-class coalition.

Some quotes from the article:

Quote

"Out here, you pay $5 for a dozen eggs. It used to be $1, or even 99 cents," Mr Negron added. "A lot of us have woken up, in my opinion, from Democratic lies that things have been better. We realised things were better then."

Daniel Campo, a Venezuelan-American, said that Trump's claims of creeping "socialism" reminded him of the situation he left in his home country. "I understand what [migrants] are leaving. But you have to do it the right way. I came the right way," he said. "Things have to be done legally. Many of us were worried that the borders were just open" under the Biden-Harris administration, he said.

“We saw a huge difference when Trump was president,” Dietzler said, adding that he was drawn to Trump’s embrace of former Democrats like Robert F Kennedy Jr and Tulsi Gabbard, both of whom appear set to have roles in the Trump administration.

“Inflation is a big deal, and I don’t think Harris quite gets it,” he said. “I think we’ll all just be better off with Trump back.”

One of them, Nahim Uddin, a delivery driver and former Ford car-worker, cast his ballot for Trump because he said the former president would drive down prices.

“I went to go purchase a car - the interest rates had skyrocketed,” the 34-year-old said. “That’s the whole reason I voted for him.”

The same was true for Yian Yian Shein, a small business owner in the city Warren, who said Trump would lower income taxes and help people like her.

I do appreciate all these people fleeing socialism don't seem to mind potentially living under fascism.

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Yeah, a lot of non-white people seemed to focus on Trump's promise of lower prices, being tougher on immigration, lower taxes, etc. And more of them aligning to the same family values as the right is also worrying.

'It's simple, really' - why Latinos flocked to Trump's working-class coalition.

Some quotes from the article:

I do appreciate all these people fleeing socialism don't seem to mind potentially living under fascism.

I will say that Trump's decision to run on the idea of "were you better off 5 years ago?" was a smart one. And one that Harris never really countered. Yes, many Americans were better off in 2019 before there was a worldwide pandemic that caused massive disruptions of the supply chain before corporations decided to use that as an excuse to raise prices across the board. People were very quick to forget who was president in 2020 when all of these things happened and chose to blame the next president. 

Now we will see if these corporations will continue to walk back their price increases in the coming months or if they will stay the same because lowering prices lowers their profit margins which can tank stock prices. 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, SeanBug said:

I just watched The Daily Show from last night. The guest was Tressie MacMillan Cottom, a professor at UNC and a columnist for NYT. 

Her explanation as to what happened was the best take I've seen so far. She explained as best she could how Trump pulled this off, and what the Democrats did wrong.  It was calming and enlightening to just hear someone not call people names, but explain how a lot of Americans feel about the country. 

https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1854356455580651851?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

I don't know if this link will work for everyone, but if you'd like to see a thoughtful discussion of the results of the election, check it out here or on another platform.

Thank you for that, I was watching that show last night but fell asleep before that interview. A direct link to the YouTube of this interview can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nno64FGj8d0

I think Tressie was spot-on and I've been thinking and saying similar in that Trump appeals to people's emotions and not any rational focus on the issues. It's how he makes people feel about themselves and whatever idealized nostalgic fantasy they want to go back to of "the good old days", which in this case can even be as recent as pre-pandemic, and unfortunately, lucky bastard that he is, he was president at a time that is largely romanticized in people's memories as a better one than the post-pandemic era. And she's right that their misperception is that it was better was because of him, not for other reasons. Or the misperception that it was better at all. Some of that feeling was a romanticized view of "the good old days". I remember that with Sept. 11. People saw the times before that as more happy and innocent. Everything seemed to go downhill after that in our memories. And the same is true for the pandemic. And again, the lucky bastard gets credited with that! Unfortunately Kamala was identified in people's minds with everything that went wrong after the pandemic. Biden suffered from that perception as well and that's why he was so maligned and blamed for stuff he was not to blame for but was actually dealing with very well.

Now we're back to 2016 in that the Democrats are going to have to go back and figure out what they did wrong - In my opinion they did the same thing wrong this time that they did last time. In order to beat a guy like Trump you have to put someone up that can connect with people on an emotional level. The Dems. need to find someone that doesn't come off as being above the people and who knows what they want and need even if they don't - someone who seems like just a regular unprivileged person, not one of the elite. Unfortunately Kamala's education and profession make her already seem like one of the elite in spite of being a woman and a minority. No offense to her but she was unable to successfully project the image of a regular person who can understand the average person from the inside out. She tried to push that angle but in my opinion it didn't come across that well, not even to me and I'm a woman with a Master's degree and wanted to see her that way! Again, nothing wrong with her, but a lot of people today need to be reached in their feelings and not just women and minorities, but everyone including white men. Not doing that only makes white men feel like they don't care about them and I think that's a mistake that needs to be corrected if the Dems. want to win the White House again. They have to prove that everyone's rights and concerns are their concerns.

The Dems. need to find someone that makes the average person feel good about themselves and like they can give them the future they so long for. Tressie was right that the Dems. have only targeted women and minorities this way and they need to broaden it to everyone else. I was originally not on board with replacing Biden with her because I didn't think she seemed as regular and relatable as he was to the broader American public including the working class. I think THAT's what got Joe the presidency in 2020 - that he seemed like the level headed regular, straight talking roll up your shirtsleeves regular guy type that could stop the insanity and wouldn't take no BS from Trump. Next to Trump he seemed like the medium happy that more people might have confidence in to help them out. I think Harris's choice of Tim Walz was an effort to try to bolster that image for her but I don't think it was enough.

I also don't think the Dems. attacked head-on the disinformation being spread about them and what they as a party and their candidates stand for. They often take the high road and Kamala did that a lot but the truth is the public didn't really know her as well as it knew Joe Biden. He was in very visible politics for decades so we knew where he was coming from and could have some confidence in him not to go too far in any extreme direction based on that. Unfortunately that was not the case for Kamala and she really needed to push back on all the lies being spread about her. I don't think she did enough of that, at least not convincingly. No, she was not left of Lenin, she was not part of the "squad", she was not for letting scores of people over the border unchecked, etc. This is the kind of misinformation that was getting to the average person about her and they were believing it because it fed into fears they already had about her. And any of her protests against it were not believed because people didn't know her well enough to trust her on that. But I don't even have the sense that she or the Dems. realized just how vitally important it was to counter that misinformation head-on. She tried to show that she was for fracking and other things not as left-leaning as the general perception of her but it didn't feel convincing. And that was a problem.

[PRgal]

I completely understand why some would be voting red rather than blue.  Polls don't typically include Asians (though they really should, and broken down into South and East as well), but China (for example) faced the Cultural Revolution in the 60s and into the 70s.  Leading up to that came suppression of the freedom of expression for years (including the forced destruction of traditional culture and artifacts.  In other words, one of the biggest cancel culture campaigns (if not THE biggest) in modern history). There was also a human-created famine during that time.  I don't know how East Asians/Chinese Americans with recent ties to mainland voted, but many don't want to see this/see the suppression of expression/defending the right NOT to destroy historical artifacts that may be tied to enslavement or colonialism.  Many are of the school where you should LEARN from history without DESTROYING/HIDING rather than just ignoring/perceived/marketed as ignoring.  I don't have direct ties to those who experienced the Cultural Revolution - both sets of grandparents were safely in Hong Kong and raising kids (i.e. my parents, uncles and aunts) by the time the Cultural Revolution began, but I do have extended family who did.  On my dad's side, my very educated great aunt (this woman had a master's degree in economics!!!  She was born in the 1920s!!!!!) lived in hiding for years because they were after people who were educated (and since I found out her grandfather (my great-great grandfather, in other words) owned a small newspaper, I wonder if being a descendant of someone who worked in MEDIA had anything to do with it as well).  In other words, she was seen by Mao and his people as "elite."  Why didn't she go to Hong Kong or Macao?  Not everyone was ABLE to escape.  

 

[nokat]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Singing Hakuna Matata with Pumba and Timon.  
 

What’s interesting was that many minorities (including Latinos) DID vote red:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna178951

 

 

I watched Latinos being disgusted by how they were portrayed, and they still voted for him.

[bluegirl147]

41 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Now we will see if these corporations will continue to walk back their price increases in the coming months or if they will stay the same because lowering prices lowers their profit margins which can tank stock prices. 

I will be shocked if prices come down.  If he gets to implement his tariffs our prices will go up.  But there will people who believe that isn't his fault.   That is one thing that has always bothered. No matter what the man does he doesn't take the blame and his voters don't blame him.   Should I be surprised though?  There are people who believe President Obama was to blame for the slow federal response to Hurricane Katrina.  You know that hurricane that hit New Orleans before Obama ran for office.

38 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

The Dems. need to find someone that makes the average person feel good about themselves and like they can give them the future they so long for.

I can remember when people voted for the candidate who's policies aligned with theirs.  But then GWB came on the scene and it became about who you would want to have a beer with.   A big criticism of Hillary in 2016 was she wasn't likable enough.  Meanwhile you had Trump making fun of a disabled reporter.  Trashing a Gold Star family.  Bragging about sexual assaulting women and the list goes on and on and voters were like "I like him. He is a real guy". 

For as long as I live I will never fully comprehend why this has happened.

Edited November 7 by bluegirl147

[Is Everyone Gone]

You know what is angering me?

I like to respect opposite opinions. I can accept that people can have opposing opinions on taxes, abortion, immigration, capital punishment, healthcare and government subsidies.

But right now, the MAGAs on my FB feed have:

1. Said they found Kamala wearing pantsuits to be "not classy" and that "real women" wear skirts

2. Claimed that Kamala and Biden manipulated the hurricanes to hit only white people in NC and Florida

3. Called Kamala a "filthy N"

4. Said that since black people only make up 13% of the population, the government shouldn't worry about them

In other words, this isn't conscientious disagreement. This is racism and complete disconnect from reality.

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

In other words, this isn't conscientious disagreement. This is racism and complete disconnect from reality.

The disconnect from reality has been around for awhile. Back in 2020 I saw people 100% believe Biden was a hologram.  The reason for the hologram was because the real Biden was imprisoned at Gitmo.  They could never explain who put him there and why they wanted people to continue to believe he was running the country.  There were also people who thought Trump was going to be reinstated and he would take the oath of office at Mar a Lago.

[Is Everyone Gone]

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

The disconnect from reality has been around for awhile. Back in 2020 I saw people 100% believe Biden was a hologram.  The reason for the hologram was because the real Biden was imprisoned at Gitmo.  They could never explain who put him there and why they wanted people to continue to believe he was running the country.  There were also people who thought Trump was going to be reinstated and he would take the oath of office at Mar a Lago.

There was also this theory going around in Q anon circles that Biden has a submarine where he hides children and eats them.

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

There was also this theory going around in Q anon circles that Biden has a submarine where he hides children and eats them.

Did he buy it from Hillary?

I've reached the part where I can laugh.  If only so I won't cry.

[Enigma X]

10 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

You know what is angering me?

I like to respect opposite opinions. I can accept that people can have opposing opinions on taxes, abortion, immigration, capital punishment, healthcare and government subsidies.

But right now, the MAGAs on my FB feed have:

1. Said they found Kamala wearing pantsuits to be "not classy" and that "real women" wear skirts

2. Claimed that Kamala and Biden manipulated the hurricanes to hit only white people in NC and Florida

3. Called Kamala a "filthy N"

4. Said that since black people only make up 13% of the population, the government shouldn't worry about them

In other words, this isn't conscientious disagreement. This is racism and complete disconnect from reality.

Agreed, and I simply block anybody on all platforms (I don't have FB or Twitter) who wants to soothe themselves into believing they are good people who say otherwise.

[Is Everyone Gone]

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

Did he buy it from Hillary?

I've reached the part where I can laugh.  If only so I won't cry.

I was once trying to explain Q anon to my mom. And my mom was like "Wait a minute, who are the vampires?"

[Anela]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

I completely understand why some would be voting red rather than blue.  Polls don't typically include Asians (though they really should, and broken down into South and East as well), but China (for example) faced the Cultural Revolution in the 60s and into the 70s.  Leading up to that came suppression of the freedom of expression for years (including the forced destruction of traditional culture and artifacts.  In other words, one of the biggest cancel culture campaigns (if not THE biggest) in modern history). There was also a human-created famine during that time.  I don't know how East Asians/Chinese Americans with recent ties to mainland voted, but many don't want to see this/see the suppression of expression/defending the right NOT to destroy historical artifacts that may be tied to enslavement or colonialism.  Many are of the school where you should LEARN from history without DESTROYING/HIDING rather than just ignoring/perceived/marketed as ignoring.  I don't have direct ties to those who experienced the Cultural Revolution - both sets of grandparents were safely in Hong Kong and raising kids (i.e. my parents, uncles and aunts) by the time the Cultural Revolution began, but I do have extended family who did.  On my dad's side, my very educated great aunt (this woman had a master's degree in economics!!!  She was born in the 1920s!!!!!) lived in hiding for years because they were after people who were educated (and since I found out her grandfather (my great-great grandfather, in other words) owned a small newspaper, I wonder if being a descendant of someone who worked in MEDIA had anything to do with it as well).  In other words, she was seen by Mao and his people as "elite."  Why didn't she go to Hong Kong or Macao?  Not everyone was ABLE to escape.  

 

but the GOP here, have raged about “cancel culture” as they’ve been erasing things like slavery from history books. They freaked out about CRT being taught to their children, and in places like Florida, shut down college courses that DeSantis didn’t want to be taught.  They have been banning books, and erasing the teaching of real history. Apparently.  
 

more recently, when the petition to get abortion on the ballots had been signed, he sent police to someone’s home, to ensure that his signature was real. This was for a petition that had no issues.  
 

35 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

There was also this theory going around in Q anon circles that Biden has a submarine where he hides children and eats them.

I had someone imply that I ate babies, because I was a liberal, in 2020. I don’t know how they’re supposed to counter the conspiracy theories with facts, when those of us who have tried to do this with people we know, have been told not to bother with facts, because it won’t work. They ramped up the conspiracy theories about FEMA, and I tried with several people on Facebook (who were not affected at all, by the hurricanes), but I finally decided that they chose to believe the lies.  They wanted to believe it, and I didn’t know them well enough to find another way to get through to them. People have cut themselves off from parents, or have been cut off, because they went down these rabbit holes when Covid started.
 

I just woke up (really fucking anxious for not just my own life stuff, but the entire country, so yay). 

Edited November 7 by Anela

[bluegirl147]

7 minutes ago, Anela said:

People have cut themselves off from parents, or have been cut off, because they went down these rabbit holes when Covid started 

A few years when ago when that Savethechildren # was going around my daughter in law got really mad at me when I told her that what she saying wasn't true.  She said I can't believe you don't care about children. There was simply no having a rational conversation with her about this.  Of course eventually she moved on to something else and never mentioned it again.

[khyber]

What a stunning interview 

 

[Is Everyone Gone]

So I was watching Kamala Harris's concession speech, and then I watched Romney's and McCain's and George HW Bush's and George McGovern's. YT algorithm then sent me to Mehmet's Oz's concession speech and Kelly Loeffler's.

This is a huge range of ideologies. Except every single one of these people showed exceptional grace and graciousness when conceding.   

It is such a difference with Trump. I think that's my other issue. Trump just shows a cruelty and vileness that is not present in other politicians I disagree with.