Chit-Chat: The Feels

[lookeyloo]

22 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Prediction: both Alito & Thomas will retire during this term.  

Joke prediction: he'll nominate Stephen Miller & Jared Kushner to replace them.

Jokier prediction: he'll nominate Ivanka Trump & Lara Trump to replace them.

Serious prediction

Matthew J. Kacsmaryk serves as United States District Judge for the Northern District of Texas

Aileen cannon Florida 

 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

12 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Prediction: both Alito & Thomas will retire during this term.  

Joke prediction: he'll nominate Stephen Miller & Jared Kushner to replace them.

Jokier prediction: he'll nominate Ivanka Trump & Lara Trump to replace them.

I agree with your prediction, but I don't think any Trump family member would get approved by Congress. They will still want to maintain some type of decorum and legitimacy with this, and there are too many other lawyers and judges who have paid their dues so to speak. Both the Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation have their lists of people who are way more qualified than any Trump or Trump adjacent person who may have a law degree like Tiffany or Jared. People that have been in the trenches clerking for Alito and Thomas and have some judicial experience so they can actually do the job. The SC can't just find in Trump's favor without there being some kind of precedence however flimsy.

[bluegirl147]

39 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Prediction: both Alito & Thomas will retire during this term.  

I don't think they will but if they do it doesn't change anything. If we lost one of three liberals that would make things worse.

When Scalia died while Obama was in office if he had been allowed to replace him that would have changed the Court dramatically. But the Turtle made sure to let that not  happen. And as much as I loved RBG she should have retired when Obama was still in office.

Trump does owe her for all that she did for him.

15 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Aileen cannon Florida 

Edited Friday at 04:55 PM by bluegirl147

[tearknee]

RBG argued that if we allow latecomers to ratify the ERA we have to allow states to change their minds and withdraw.

[fastiller]

31 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I don't think they will but if they do it doesn't change anything. If we lost one of three liberals that would make things worse.

What it would do is solidify the SCOTUS as Trump's for many decades to come.  It would allow for a much younger cohort of conservative Justices.

Edited Friday at 05:24 PM by fastiller
tone

[mostlylurking]

I was watching Abby Philip on CNN last night (excellent program) and wow, the Democrats have learned NOTHING. Every time someone said anything about them being out of touch and cringey (including Abby at one point) they just laughed condescendingly and said well I wouldn’t take advice from THAT person. Wake up guys!!  It’s this type of elitist attitude and outright refusal to see what’s right in front of them that put them in his massively unpopular situation.

I honestly don’t know what dems can do to win people back, but maybe a little humility and the concession that yes, maybe we do have some things we can work on would be a good start. 

[Absolom]

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Why is it that when I choose to ignore a poster and click all 3 boxes, including "mentions" that I still see them quoted? That's a little frustrating, but I guess the software works that way, differentiating quote from mentions. 🤷‍♀️

You're right the software treats quotes separately.  It has always carried forward the quotes.  I guess that's because the actual post part is by someone else.  You have to do the ignore part "manually" by consciously skipping reading it.  I share your pain on this one.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

I was watching Abby Philip on CNN last night (excellent program) and wow, the Democrats have learned NOTHING. Every time someone said anything about them being out of touch and cringey (including Abby at one point) they just laughed condescendingly and said well I wouldn’t take advice from THAT person. Wake up guys!!  It’s this type of elitist attitude and outright refusal to see what’s right in front of them that put them in his massively unpopular situation.

I honestly don’t know what dems can do to win people back, but maybe a little humility and the concession that yes, maybe we do have some things we can work on would be a good start. 

My problem with the Harris campaign was that they tried to hurt Trump on his terms. He loves ratings and shiny attention and they grabbed at that with huge rallies with lots of A listers and pop princess star power. And yes, that made Donald feel bad but it didn't make voters feel better. I think they should have run more of a ground game, holding town hall in red states like Ohio, Kansas and Missouri. They put their strongest advocate for the middle class, Tim Walz on the back burner when he should have been out front.

[Dimity]

7 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

 It’s this type of elitist attitude and outright refusal to see what’s right in front of them that put them in his massively unpopular situation.

I agree they need to work on themselves going forward but I'm not sure I agree that they are massively unpopular.  Trump isn't doing himself any favours right now with a lot of those who voted for him and he's certainly not winning over the hearts and minds of those who didn't.

Maybe the best move for the Dems right now is to just keep letting Trump hog the stage.  He'll self combust eventually.

[bluegirl147]

7 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

I honestly don’t know what dems can do to win people back, but maybe a little humility and the concession that yes, maybe we do have some things we can work on would be a good start. 

If they continue with this attitude of well let's just wait and see how bad things can get a lot of them are going to get primaried.  And I don't say that lightly. I'm a Democrat and will be till I die but they are not doing enough.  I know they can't stop what's happening on their own but they need to do more than wear pink. We saw Republicans doing town halls in their districts. Were Democrats doing that? They need to reach people so they need to go on podcasts. They need to use social media and not in the cringy way some of them do.  Go on late night talk shows.  Those hosts are Dem friendly.  And for most importantly figure out who is going to lead your party going forward.  Because Schumer and Jefferies do not seem up to the job.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

. I think they should have run more of a ground game, holding town hall in red states like Ohio, Kansas and Missouri.

I keep saying this. They need to compete in red states. Elizabeth Warren when she was running in 2020 came to my very red state. She  had no chance of winning but she at least tried to reach some voters. They can't just write off red states as lost causes. Virginia and Colorado both used to be red states and are now blue.

6 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I agree they need to work on themselves going forward but I'm not sure I agree that they are massively unpopular.  Trump isn't doing himself any favours right now with a lot of those who voted for him and he's certainly not winning over the hearts and minds of those who didn't.

I think Dems in general and probably specifically the Harris campaign overestimated how many voters hated Trump.  I think they thought more people would vote against Trump by voting for Harris.  It worked for Trump in 2016. He won a lot of votes from people who disliked Hillary. But as we have seen time and time again what works for Trump doesn't work for anyone else.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

My problem with the Harris campaign was that they tried to hurt Trump on his terms. He loves ratings and shiny attention and they grabbed at that with huge rallies with lots of A listers and pop princess star power. And yes, that made Donald feel bad but it didn't make voters feel better. I think they should have run more of a ground game, holding town hall in red states like Ohio, Kansas and Missouri. They put their strongest advocate for the middle class, Tim Walz on the back burner when he should have been out front.

They also made a mistake when they reined in Tim after his "weird" comments. That gut under the skin of Trump and Vance, and the Harris campaign should have doubled down on it. But, I don't think the donor class liked that too much, and Walz was sidelined. If the Dems really want to win in 2026 and beyond, then they need to recenter who their audience is and learn how to handle the donors. Right now, the donors are in charge and not the politicians.

[bluegirl147]

Just now, Ohiopirate02 said:

They also made a mistake when they reined in Tim after his "weird" comments. That gut under the skin of Trump and Vance, and the Harris campaign should have doubled down on it. But, I don't think the donor class liked that too much, and Walz was sidelined. If the Dems really want to win in 2026 and beyond, then they need to recenter who their audience is and learn how to handle the donors. Right now, the donors are in charge and not the politicians.

Yes. The Dems listen to their donors more than they listen to their voters.  Citizens United fucked us over and will continue to do so unless they can get money out of politics.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

But as we have seen time and time again what works for Trump doesn't work for anyone else.

This is the hope I cling to actually.  Only Trump gets away with being Trump.  It will be interesting to see if the Republicans actually figure that out for 2028.

[peacheslatour]

Just now, Dimity said:

This is the hope I cling to actually.  Only Trump gets away with being Trump.  It will be interesting to see if the Republicans actually figure that out for 2028.

Yeah, if  Trump croaks or becomes so out of it that they can no longer hide it and cover it up with cries of "fake news", I don't think there is a chance in hell that Vance will ever drum up the same fervor on the right, especially with the really MAGAtty ones that his predecessor has.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't think there is a chance in hell that Vance will ever drum up the same fervor on the right, especially with the really MAGAtty ones that his predecessor has.

I keep reading that he is really disliked in MAGA circles.  No idea how true that is.  But even so, and I hate to use this word about Trump, but Vance doesn't have his charisma (gag). 

[bluegirl147]

11 minutes ago, Dimity said:

This is the hope I cling to actually.  Only Trump gets away with being Trump.  It will be interesting to see if the Republicans actually figure that out for 2028.

It is interesting to me that someone hasn't come out to take over once Trump is gone.  I don't know if they are afraid Trump will feel like he is being pushed out or what. 

9 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, if  Trump croaks or becomes so out of it that they can no longer hide it and cover it up with cries of "fake news", I don't think there is a chance in hell that Vance will ever drum up the same fervor on the right, especially with the really MAGAtty ones that his predecessor has.

 

2 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I keep reading that he is really disliked in MAGA circles.  No idea how true that is.  But even so, and I hate to use this word about Trump, but Vance doesn't have his charisma (gag). 

It's not just Vance lacks a personality MAGA world doesn't trust him.  He originally hated Trump. Called him Hitler.  MAGA doesn't forgive those who have criticized their dear leader. Trump didn't care because he brought the tech bros and their money with him when he added him to the ticket. 

[kittykat]

It's one thing for the Democrats to want to try to win back centrist votes they lost.  Obviously that's a key demographic to win over but they need to do it in a way that doesn't alienate their loyal base ie black voters and LGBTQ+.  The very wrong thing to do is roll back on promises that protect at risk groups.  In order to win back the centrist white voters, if they even can, they need to lead with a strong message that's economy forward with strong yet fair stances on immigration.  They also need to include protections for women and at risk groups but make it the third bullet point instead of the lead off.

If their strategy to win back key demographics is just to be "oh well guess we're gonna have to shift even more right" it will be a disaster.  They should talk about everything Trump has done, who it has screwed over then counteract with a plan that could work.  But I'm no strategist.  I'm worried that they will stay in Wait and See mode.  Last time the opposition decided to wait and see WW2 happened.

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, kittykat said:

f their strategy to win back key demographics is just to be "oh well guess we're gonna have to shift even more right" it will be a disaster.

They have done this so many fucking times.  And it never works.  They are always trying to appeal to Republican voters. Give it up already. To quote SATC they just aren't that into you. 

Progressive policies, especially economic ones, have huge appeal to voters.  Paid family leave. Single payer health insurance. Raising the cap on earnings to make SS solvent.  They need to be more proactive and not just reactive. They need to stop being afraid of the word socialism.  When someone calls them that they need to say if you mean (fill in the blank with one of the progressive policies I just mentioned) then yes I guess I am a socialist.  

[tres bien]

Are there more sane republicans out there? Because I don’t see it.

Nikki Haley? Nope

John Thune? Nope 

Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski? Nope and nope 

I always tried to find a redeeming quality with Marco Rubio but then he’d veer off into MAGA land and he’s probably not full fledged but it’s too late now because it’s the only he can survive this Secretary of State gig

The MAGA’s prove everyday that they can’t ever do anything that isn’t asinine so maybe it’ll lead to their extinction.

The democrats keep moving farther to the left instead the center which is where the vast majority of voters they need are including me 

[peacheslatour]

19 minutes ago, kittykat said:

It's one thing for the Democrats to want to try to win back centrist votes they lost.  Obviously that's a key demographic to win over but they need to do it in a way that doesn't alienate their loyal base ie black voters and LGBTQ+.  The very wrong thing to do is roll back on promises that protect at risk groups.  In order to win back the centrist white voters, if they even can, they need to lead with a strong message that's economy forward with strong yet fair stances on immigration.  They also need to include protections for women and at risk groups but make it the third bullet point instead of the lead off.

If their strategy to win back key demographics is just to be "oh well guess we're gonna have to shift even more right" it will be a disaster.  They should talk about everything Trump has done, who it has screwed over then counteract with a plan that could work.  But I'm no strategist.  I'm worried that they will stay in Wait and See mode.  Last time the opposition decided to wait and see WW2 happened.

I think it's enough to say we're pro inclusion. But harping on it as the centerpiece of your message is not resonating with swing voters. What they need to pound home is the economy. That's what working people care about the most. 

[tres bien]

The democrats were so naive that when Trump pulled his MacDonalds and garbage man stunts they ignored him.

When Walz went to the small town in Nebraska where he grew up and FOX mocked him for ordering the local sandwich specialty the Harris campaign ran instead of doubling down 

And yes stop cozing up to Hollywood. I don’t care who they support they don’t speak to people that lives depend on working for minimum wage and working more than one job. The average person can’t relate to them 

[bluegirl147]

25 minutes ago, tres bien said:

The democrats keep moving farther to the left instead the center which is where the vast majority of voters they need are including me 

The Democratic politicians are definitely not moving to the left. Now if you are talking about certain far left Democratic voters I agree with you.  And as @peacheslatour says

22 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I think it's enough to say we're pro inclusion. But harping on it as the centerpiece of your message is not resonating with swing voters.

It's true.  But it's a fine line to walk.  If certain groups don't feel like you are doing enough for whatever their cause is they take their vote and go home.  Just ask all those pro Gaza voters who didn't vote in 2024. 

7 minutes ago, Dimity said:

If anyone else had failures like that they would never be considered for a government contract but when you are a billionaire they let you do it.  You can keep failing over and over again and you will still be considered a genius.

[mostlylurking]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Maybe the best move for the Dems right now is to just keep letting Trump hog the stage.  He'll self combust eventually.

You know what I’m thinking this might be the only thing they can do.  Like others have said, only Trump can get away with Trump stuff.  And he’s up there in years so he doesn’t have a ton of time left. Dems have dug themselves into such a hole I think probably the best thing they can do is raise as much hell as possible and wait him out.

[suomi]

Inside the Explosive Meeting Where Trump Officials Clashed With Elon Musk

Simmering anger at the billionaire’s unchecked power spilled out in a remarkable Cabinet Room meeting. The president quickly moved to rein in Mr. Musk.

Mr. Rubio had been privately furious with Mr. Musk for weeks, ever since his team effectively shuttered an entire agency that was supposedly under Mr. Rubio’s control: the United States Agency for International Development. But, in the extraordinary cabinet meeting in front of President Trump and around 20 others — details of which have not been reported before — Mr. Rubio got his grievances off his chest.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/us/politics/trump-musk-doge-power.html

 

 

[Notabug]

13 hours ago, ebk57 said:

Why do I keep seeing commercials for 47 and how "great" his stupid "policies" are.  The election is over - I don't know what the hell you're trying to sell me, but I'm sure as hell not buying it.  Talk about a waste of money.

The ad campaign was the orange goblin's idea and it is being paid for with $200 million of your tax dollars.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kristi-noem-says-200-million-dhs-ad-campaign-thanking-trump-was-his-idea/ar-AA1zyyBI?ocid=BingNewsSerp

 

[Makai]

I understand the talk about what Democrats should or shouldn’t do but I honestly don’t think any of it matters. You can’t reach potential voters who aren’t paying attention and it’s impossible to effectively counteract the confirmation bias of those that are listening. We have reached the point that National elections are determined by reactionary voters who see everything they want slipping farther away and are just voting against whoever they currently blame. 

[ebk57]

7 minutes ago, Notabug said:

The ad campaign was the orange goblin's idea and it is being paid for with $200 million of your tax dollars.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kristi-noem-says-200-million-dhs-ad-campaign-thanking-trump-was-his-idea/ar-AA1zyyBI?ocid=BingNewsSerp

 

I did read about those, but those aren't the only ones I've seen.  Here's something from the AP about a couple of Musk funded PACS running ads.  And there were a couple of others - I tried googling the names at the end of the ads (something about energy and one named something with "national interest something"), but of course, nothing comes up because they're all so shadowy in their funding.

https://apnews.com/article/musk-donald-trump-doge-biden-zelenskyy-ukraine-harris-russia-45d6cc8f7d51c57602b66141e870a882

Wherever they're coming from, they're incredibly annoying and totally unnecessary because who is he trying to convince at this point?!  

It's all so discouraging... 

[partofme]

18 minutes ago, Makai said:

I understand the talk about what Democrats should or shouldn’t do but I honestly don’t think any of it matters. You can’t reach potential voters who aren’t paying attention and it’s impossible to effectively counteract the confirmation bias of those that are listening. We have reached the point that National elections are determined by reactionary voters who see everything they want slipping farther away and are just voting against whoever they currently blame. 

Also these voters live in right wing echo chambers so until something happens to prevent the constant lying by Republicans, it doesn’t matter what the Democratic party’s message is, people who are inclined to vote Republican are never going to hear or believe it. 
 

1 hour ago, tres bien said:

Are there more sane republicans out there? Because I don’t see it

No there aren’t.    Republicans don’t stand up to Trump because they all agree with him on the basics.  (Tax cuts for the rich, dismantle the social safety net, cut government spending  and appoint far right wing judges).   They may cringe at some of the thing he does and they may wish he was politer about his racism but none of that matters as long as he’s enacting Republican policy.  Even Liz Cheney voted with Trump 95% of the time last time Trump was in office.   No Republican can be trusted.  I don’t think Vance has charisma, but I also don’t think Trump has any so what do I know.  Vance has billionaire backers behind him and he also has an R after his name and for a lot of brainwashed voters that is all that matters.  

[Spartan Girl]

21 minutes ago, Makai said:

I understand the talk about what Democrats should or shouldn’t do but I honestly don’t think any of it matters. You can’t reach potential voters who aren’t paying attention and it’s impossible to effectively counteract the confirmation bias of those that are listening. We have reached the point that National elections are determined by reactionary voters who see everything they want slipping farther away and are just voting against whoever they currently blame. 

This. I am so over coddling the voters. The ones that voted for Trump don’t care that he’s awful. The third party/independent/protest voters and the ones that stars home knew the stakes and still decided to play stupid games. If I have to hear bullshit like “both sides suck” or “they didn’t earn my vote” one more time, I’ll scream. Start taking some goddamn responsibility instead of sticking to your goldfish memories every four years.

[Notabug]

9 minutes ago, ebk57 said:

I did read about those, but those aren't the only ones I've seen.  Here's something from the AP about a couple of Musk funded PACS running ads.  And there were a couple of others - I tried googling the names at the end of the ads (something about energy and one named something with "national interest something"), but of course, nothing comes up because they're all so shadowy in their funding.

https://apnews.com/article/musk-donald-trump-doge-biden-zelenskyy-ukraine-harris-russia-45d6cc8f7d51c57602b66141e870a882

Wherever they're coming from, they're incredibly annoying and totally unnecessary because who is he trying to convince at this point?!  

It's all so discouraging... 

I don't think Trump cares if anyone is convinced at this point.  It is all about feeding his bloated ego.  He cannot stand any criticism and requires a constant stream of praise and approval.  That's what the ads provide. NewsMax and Fox constantly fawning over every dimwitted move he makes is not enough for an ego the size of Trump's.

It certainly coincides with Trump's overall fiscal policy that government spending must be drastically cut except in areas that benefit him personally; hence the butt-kissing ads and the multiple trips to Mar a Lago since the inauguration.  In fact, he is supposed to be in Mar a Lago this weekend attending a dinner where others are paying $1 million a plate to be in the room and where anyone with $5 million to spare can have a private meeting with him.  The money is going to MAGA, Inc. which undoubtedly will be giving a big chunk of it directly to Trump, as they have in the past.  Taxpayers will, of course, be paying millions for transportation and security for this weekend getaway.

[Lantern7]

9 hours ago, anony.miss said:

Trump's America:

https://www.newsweek.com/military-remove-enola-gay-photos-dei-rules-2041029

In any complex discussion of the dawn of the nuclear era, let it be known that the bomb was dropped by the Enola Totes-Straight.

The United States: you might not be religious, but they’ll make you shout “JESUS CHRIST!!!” every other hour.

3 hours ago, tearknee said:

Or Stan Smith and Dale Gribble.

Debatable. I wasn’t that into KOTH. I can see Dale being MAGA, but we’ll probably never know in the reboot because his voice actor passed away. Meanwhile, American Dad has veered away from politics, so Stan being gung ho right wing isn’t much of a thing these days. Also, the show has gotten good since it moved to TBS.

Edited Friday at 08:05 PM by Lantern7

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

 

If anyone else had failures like that they would never be considered for a government contract but when you are a billionaire they let you do it.  You can keep failing over and over again and you will still be considered a genius.

Or become POTUS.

[bluegirl147]

52 minutes ago, Notabug said:

The ad campaign was the orange goblin's idea and it is being paid for with $200 million of your tax dollars.

So who is getting paid?  The media companies that run these ads.  It's probably Trump's way of paying them back for donating to bribing him.

[Yeah No]

2 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I was watching Abby Philip on CNN last night (excellent program) and wow, the Democrats have learned NOTHING. Every time someone said anything about them being out of touch and cringey (including Abby at one point) they just laughed condescendingly and said well I wouldn’t take advice from THAT person. Wake up guys!!  It’s this type of elitist attitude and outright refusal to see what’s right in front of them that put them in his massively unpopular situation.

I honestly don’t know what dems can do to win people back, but maybe a little humility and the concession that yes, maybe we do have some things we can work on would be a good start. 

Thank you, I was going to reply to @Kemper's similar post on this. I hate to say that the Dems. still haven't learned anything from as far back as Trump's first win in 2016. If they don't want the lower middle and poor whites (and now even some minorities) in the South and Midwest to see them as elitist snobs that don't have their interests at heart they need to ACT like it and not prove them right by acting like your example above. I know many here on the board don't like to see this behavior but what you're describing has not been unusual and is one big reason why so many undecideds were easy targets for Trump and his grievance politics. He fed into their already festering alienation from the Democratic party and its candidates. It's easy to say we don't care about those people anyway and "who needs them?" but without them the Democratic party will never recover from this. We can argue all day long about the anti-intellectualism and how we don't want to be like that, but unless there is a big wakeup and a lot of acting more like "regular people" instead of elitist snobs Dems. will have only themselves to blame for their failure.

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I think it's enough to say we're pro inclusion. But harping on it as the centerpiece of your message is not resonating with swing voters. What they need to pound home is the economy. That's what working people care about the most. 

Exactly, this can't be said enough!

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

My problem with the Harris campaign was that they tried to hurt Trump on his terms. He loves ratings and shiny attention and they grabbed at that with huge rallies with lots of A listers and pop princess star power. And yes, that made Donald feel bad but it didn't make voters feel better. I think they should have run more of a ground game, holding town hall in red states like Ohio, Kansas and Missouri. They put their strongest advocate for the middle class, Tim Walz on the back burner when he should have been out front.

When Harris chose Walz that's what I thought the strategy was, but as usual even that didn't work and I don't know if putting him on the front burner would have worked either. As has been said he didn't win over any undecideds with his "weird" comment and that didn't help. Unfortunately there really is no "regular guy/gal" among the Dems. these days that would appeal to this audience. I can't think of any. Even Pete B. (who I love) is a freaking Rhodes Scholar and although very plain talking is often over the heads of many in the middle politically, and even the others don't have the "regular Joe" and star charisma/likability that are needed to counter the Trump phenomenon. I hate to say it but Biden had more of that than the rest and he wasn't perfect either!

[partofme]

I don’t watch CNN or any cable news so I have no idea what was said there, and I disagree with a lot of what Democrats do, especially Democratic leadership like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer( I apologize for voting for him in the 98 primary, there were 4 candidates running and he advertised that he was the only one who could beat the incumbent Republican senator, because NY actually had one then) but I disagree with the concept in general that Democrats are elitist.  Democrats support policies that help the middle and working class and they shouldn’t need to dumb down their words (even if it would help).  And I’m not convinced that dumbing down their words would help when I believe the issue is the dominance of right wing media like Fox News and others being allowed to lie.  I didn’t really care for Pete Buttigieg when he was running for President, though he was great as Sec of Transportation, but I don’t see why his being a Rhodes scholar should matter when Trump and Vance are both Ivy League graduates.  Dems hardly have a monopoly on elitism.  

[peacheslatour]

34 minutes ago, partofme said:

I don’t watch CNN or any cable news so I have no idea what was said there, and I disagree with a lot of what Democrats do, especially Democratic leadership like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer( I apologize for voting for him in the 98 primary, there were 4 candidates running and he advertised that he was the only one who could beat the incumbent Republican senator, because NY actually had one then) but I disagree with the concept in general that Democrats are elitist.  Democrats support policies that help the middle and working class and they shouldn’t need to dumb down their words (even if it would help).  And I’m not convinced that dumbing down their words would help when I believe the issue is the dominance of right wing media like Fox News and others being allowed to lie.  I didn’t really care for Pete Buttigieg when he was running for President, though he was great as Sec of Transportation, but I don’t see why his being a Rhodes scholar should matter when Trump and Vance are both Ivy League graduates.  Dems hardly have a monopoly on elitism.  

Then why do the people you mentioned act like they're ashamed of their educations? Do they really think so little of the electorate that they pretend to be ignorant to appeal to people they consider the "the little" people?

[kittykat]

Quote

Simmering anger at Elon Musk’s unchecked power spilled out Thursday in a remarkable Cabinet Room meeting — and President Trump quickly moved to rein him in.

I received an email from NYT stating the above.  Looks like we got ourselves a lover's quarrel.

That didn't take long.

[bluegirl147]

25 minutes ago, partofme said:

 And I’m not convinced that dumbing down their words would help when I believe the issue is the dominance of right wing media like Fox News and others being allowed to lie.

Thank you. I don't like the idea that Dems have to dumb themselves down to appeal to more people.  It plays into the right's narrative that Dems are elitists. I've said before Reps tell voters want they want to hear. Doesn't matter that it's lies their voters will blame Dems when they don't get what they were promised.  Republicans started demonizing Democrats the people and not just their policies and it worked.  Republican voters are so conditioned to believe that anything a Democrat says is a lie or something they don't want that they don't even bother to listen to a Democrat candidate.  Meanwhile their dear leader who lies like he breathes they believe every word he says.  I don't hate all Republicans but I hate their policies because they are meant to hurt me. Whether it's taking away my health insurance or rolling back regulations meant to help stop climate change or destroying SS before I have a chance to collect a dime of it.  If they came up a good policy I would support it.  And that is the difference between the parties.  We have already talked about how many Republicans would rather go without the Medicaid expansion because they don't want those they think are undeserving to benefit from it.  

[kittykat]

Exactly I'm so sick of the double standards the parties are held to.  Trump tells lies and everyone believes him.  Oh well!  Republicans gonna Republican.  Democrat accidentally tells a lie of promise they can't keep: SCORCHED EARTH!  And that's not to say we shouldn't hold Democrats accountable when they say something stupid but the reaction of one versus the reaction of another is incredibly disproportionate.

[tres bien]

This is true the democrats are the party of the people. The working people. Unions. The party that cares about people 
It’s been snatched away from them by the MAGA party of grievances. MAGA has convinced voters that that their lives suck because the democrats don’t understand them or their lives 

The democrats can’t sit around and wait and they can’t not take the bait or not pick a fight over everything Trump says and does. They can’t give him an inch

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

Then why do the people you mentioned act like they're ashamed of their educations? Do they really think so little of the electorate that they pretend to be ignorant to appeal to people they consider the "the little" people?

I used to see videos of MAGA rallies and they would interview some of the dumbest people I had ever seen.  And honestly I couldn't tell if they were purposely seeking them out or if all of the rally goers were that dumb. 

I do think being intelligent is looked down on by a lot of people and sadly there are politicians on both sides of the aisle that pander to that.

I love this quote by Isaac Asimov

 

 

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

4 minutes ago, tres bien said:

t’s been snatched away from them by the MAGA party of grievances. MAGA has convinced voters that that their lives suck because the democrats don’t understand them or their lives 

That snatching away was helped by them being convinced their lives sucked because Democrats cared more about all these "other" people.

[Dimity]

To be honest I think the main reason Trump won was apathy.  It's the same here in Canada.  Sure there are people who get passionate about issues and turn out and vote but far too many just don't seem to give a damn.  I have no idea what the solution to this is but as long as we keep having elections decided by less than half the voting age electorate that is a real problem.

[Yeah No]

27 minutes ago, partofme said:

I didn’t really care for Pete Buttigieg when he was running for President, though he was great as Sec of Transportation, but I don’t see why his being a Rhodes scholar should matter when Trump and Vance are both Ivy League graduates.  Dems hardly have a monopoly on elitism.  

No, Dems. don't have a monopoly on elitism, but then again the Republicans have Trump who somehow doesn't come off as elitist despite his education, which is the reason why where he went to school doesn't matter to his base. He comes off like a "regular non-college educated guy" while Pete definitely comes off as college educated.

I don't think you can put Pete and Trump in the same universe intellectually and back when Trump went to UPenn pretty much any affluent white guy with connections could get into an ivy league school. And his first two years were spent at Fordham, which is my alma mater and not an ivy league school. We don't know what his grades were but we know he didn't graduate with any honors either. And no way could anyone put him on the same intellectual level with any Rhodes Scholar let alone Pete. Any elitism Trump benefitted from was due to his gender, race and affluence, not his education, his intellect or his demeanor. Which is why he doesn't come off as an elitist snob at all and why his base loves him.

And the only reason Vance seemed OK to the MAGA crowd is his trying to capitalize on being a poor kid that grew up in and knew all about poverty in Appalachia, which many people from that area complain that he didn't grow up in and doesn't know about. But is he really all that "relatable" to them? Not really, which is why he is basically riding the coattails of Trump's appeal to the "masses". Even among Republicans there is no one that appeals to them like Trump does.

And speaking of why Trump went to Fordham first, I am sure it was because back in 1964 it was easy to get into right before the Baby Boom kids came of college age en masse, and women and minorities started entering college in record numbers. When I went there in the late '70s through today it became much harder to get into. Although I could have gone to a tougher school I chose to go there for several reasons. I can see why he transferred out, though. It was definitely not the place for the likes of him!

[Yeah No]

35 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Thank you. I don't like the idea that Dems have to dumb themselves down to appeal to more people.  It plays into the right's narrative that Dems are elitists. I've said before Reps tell voters want they want to hear. Doesn't matter that it's lies their voters will blame Dems when they don't get what they were promised.  Republicans started demonizing Democrats the people and not just their policies and it worked.  Republican voters are so conditioned to believe that anything a Democrat says is a lie or something they don't want that they don't even bother to listen to a Democrat candidate.  Meanwhile their dear leader who lies like he breathes they believe every word he says. 

I don't think Biden dumbed himself down and remember, he won in 2020. Biden somehow seemed like a "regular guy" and that I think is part of what made the difference. He never seemed elitist. The only reason he wouldn't have won again is because of the issue over his age and his ability to perform. And that was regrettable. And if Kamala wasn't a woman of color and perhaps seemed a little more "down to earth" and clued into what some of the undecideds' needs were about the economy, she might have won. Also if she didn't enter the race so late in the game under those particular circumstances. Even as it is she didn't lose by all that much. So it wouldn't take all that much for a Democrat to win again if even a few more of the factors were facing the right direction. But aye, there's the rub!

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

No, Dems. don't have a monopoly on elitism, but then again the Republicans have Trump who somehow doesn't come off as elitist despite his education, which is the reason why where he went to school doesn't matter to his base. He comes off like a "regular non-college educated guy" while Pete definitely comes off as college educated.

I don't think you can put Pete and Trump in the same universe intellectually and back when Trump went to UPenn pretty much any affluent white guy with connections could get into an ivy league school. And his first two years were spent at Fordham, which is my alma mater and not an ivy league school. We don't know what his grades were but we know he didn't graduate with any honors either. And no way could anyone put him on the same intellectual level with any Rhodes Scholar let alone Pete. Any elitism Trump benefitted from was due to his gender, race and affluence, not his education, his intellect or his demeanor. Which is why he doesn't come off as an elitist snob at all and why his base loves him.

And the only reason Vance seemed OK to the MAGA crowd is his trying to capitalize on being a poor kid that grew up in and knew all about poverty in Appalachia, which many people from that area complain that he didn't grow up in and doesn't know about. But is he really all that "relatable" to them? Not really, which is why he is basically riding the coattails of Trump's appeal to the "masses". Even among Republicans there is no one that appeals to them like Trump does.

And speaking of why Trump went to Fordham first, I am sure it was because back in 1964 it was easy to get into right before the Baby Boom kids came of college age en masse, and women and minorities started entering college in record numbers. When I went there in the late '70s through today it became much harder to get into. Although I could have gone to a tougher school I chose to go there for several reasons. I can see why he transferred out, though. It was definitely not the place for the likes of him!

What baffles me more than Trump's lets face it, scant education, is his father's immense wealth. His "gold" plated palaces and rich playboy lifestyle in NYC, doesn't even faze them. The "he's just like us" delusion is like a kind of blindness.

[Yeah No]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

What baffles me more than Trump's lets face it, scant education, is his father's immense wealth. His "gold" plated palaces and rich playboy lifestyle in NYC, doesn't even faze them. The "he's just like us" delusion is like a kind of blindness.

Yeah, it's all about appearances these days and we've boggled over this many times here. Biden appeared like he wasn't up to handling the presidency and even if he was it wouldn't have mattered so he HAD to step down. It's never about reality or substance anymore, only what things and people seem like on the surface. Unfortunately that's maddening for those of us that see more than 2 layers deep.

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, Yeah No said:

So it wouldn't take all that much for a Democrat to win again if even a few more of the factors were facing the right direction. But aye, there's the rub!

If Trump actually follows through with some of the crap he wants to throw at the middle and working classes and if the Dems can get a viable candidate (I hate to say this but middle aged white guy should do it) then they've got an excellent chance especially since Trump isn't going to give up power one second sooner than he has to and it's hard to believe he would ever see himself stepping down anyway.  The Republicans are on a winning streak right now but I think Trump himself is going to scuttle their ship by 2028.

7 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

The "he's just like us" delusion is like a kind of blindness.

I remember with Bush it was "he seems like the kind of guy you could have a beer with" but with Trump let's face it even they must see that "he's the kind of guy who would expect you to pick up the cheque".

[tearknee]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Then why do the people you mentioned act like they're ashamed of their educations? Do they really think so little of the electorate that they pretend to be ignorant to appeal to people they consider the "the little" people?

Most people hate "professors" or Ivy League/Oxbridge types.

 

 

[peacheslatour]

5 minutes ago, Dimity said:

If Trump actually follows through with some of the crap he wants to throw at the middle and working classes and if the Dems can get a viable candidate (I hate to say this but middle aged white guy should do it) then they've got an excellent chance especially since Trump isn't going to give up power one second sooner than he has to and it's hard to believe he would ever see himself stepping down anyway.  The Republicans are on a winning streak right now but I think Trump himself is going to scuttle their ship by 2028.

I remember with Bush it was "he seems like the kind of guy you could have a beer with" but with Trump let's face it even they must see that "he's the kind of guy who would expect you to pick up the cheque".

That "aw shucks" crap from Bush was such an act. He came from a political dynasty and he was about as Texan as I am. In fact I may be more so because even though I now live in blue Washington and even bluer Seattle, I was at least born in San Antonio.