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Chit-Chat: The Feels

CM-BlueButterfly

By CM-BlueButterfly
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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

(edited)
13 minutes ago, ebk57 said:

This hits very, very close to home... This will not make the "stars" who won't be in the same place as him be in the same place as him. He can't make them like him.

And it will only hurt those who want to see theater, hear music, or earn a living doing those things - which I'm sure doesn't bother him at all.  I'm glad there's nothing coming up this season that I was planning on going to see.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-takes-over-kennedy-center-200205406.html

He's such a spoiled child.

 

The old money New York society saw him for exactly what he was. A new money parvenue. Crass, uncultured and dishonest. They would have nothing to do with him and I'm sure he's had a vendetta against them for decades.

 

Edited by peacheslatour
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Annber03
Annber03

And yet the same people who are awed by his celebrity are also the ones talkng about how celebritees need to stay out of politics. You'll pardon me if I can't take their critiques all that seriously. 

Annber03
Annber03

For as long as I live, I will never understand the hold this guy has over people. 

Annber03
Annber03

Everything I want to say would be a string of curse words at this point.  Hope you're happy, people who decided to be all precious with your votes or who felt this guy deserved another chance aft

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isalicat

isalicat

30 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I’ve only come across a handful of places where all gender bathrooms had multiple stalls.  Every other one was single use.  As in a toilet and a sink with a door. 

I failed to communicate clearly! Yes, single use all gender bathrooms should be the norm, thus ensuring privacy and safety for everyone (particularly parents needing to take their kids in or allowing their kids to go in on their own).

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Dimity

Dimity

(edited)
37 minutes ago, isalicat said:

I don't want anyone I don't know with a penis in my bathroom or dressing/changing room so if that makes someone uncomfortable, I am sorry about that but my safety/privacy is important to me.

No one is arguing that women should feel comfortable having men in their bathroom or changing room, what people are pointing out is simply how would you know?  Are bearded ladies making the news as they go into the ladies room?  No.  And any   man who gets his jollies dressing as a woman so he can listen to women pee or passes as a woman to get into their changing room because he wants to assault a woman isn't going to be deterred by Trump announcing there are officially two genders.

Edited by Dimity
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ebk57

ebk57

2 minutes ago, isalicat said:

I failed to communicate clearly! Yes, single use all gender bathrooms should be the norm, thus ensuring privacy and safety for everyone (particularly parents needing to take their kids in or allowing their kids to go in on their own).

Single use, as in one room with a door and lock on it?  Didn't you say in your previous post that this would eliminate lines?  I think this would have the complete opposite outcome and the lines would wrap around the block. 

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isalicat

isalicat

1 minute ago, Dimity said:

No one is arguing that women should feel comfortable having men in their bathroom or changing room, what people are pointing out is simply how would you know?  Are bearded ladies making the news as they go into the ladies room?  No.  And any any man who gets his jollies dressing as a woman so he can listen to women pee or because he wants to assault a woman isn't going to be deterred by Trump announcing there are officially two genders.

I can find endless recent news articles about men claiming to be women (this week) who have been in public gym or swimming pool changing rooms and bathrooms so apparently its pretty easy "to know". And a teenager boy dressed as a girl sexually assaulted not one but *two* different girls in the girl's bathroom in a Virginia public school (this was national news in the U.S.). No one criminally inclined will be deterred, you are entirely correct there, but its a start.

1 minute ago, ebk57 said:

Single use, as in one room with a door and lock on it?  Didn't you say in your previous post that this would eliminate lines?  I think this would have the complete opposite outcome and the lines would wrap around the block. 

Not true anywhere outside a crowded stadium or concert venue. And in those, at least the lines would be equal opportunity! (Most of the outdoor concerts I have been to have porta-potties, which in effect is the same thing...so lines for everyone!).

ebk57

ebk57

(edited)
13 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Not true anywhere outside a crowded stadium or concert venue. And in those, at least the lines would be equal opportunity! (Most of the outdoor concerts I have been to have porta-potties, which in effect is the same thing...so lines for everyone!).

Where else besides crowded stadiums and concert venues and theaters do you find lines to the bathrooms?  They can't retrofit these places to install enough single-use bathrooms to make this work.  They can't even retrofit existing venues to expand the the bathrooms they already have to make it work now.  

Edited by ebk57
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isalicat

isalicat

1 minute ago, ebk57 said:

Where else besides crowded stadiums and concert venues and theaters do you find lines to the bathrooms?  They can't retrofit these places to install enough single-use bathrooms to make this work.  They can't even retrofit existing venues to expand the the bathrooms they already have to make it work now.  

Actually yes, they can. All the restrooms in stadia and concert venues etc. could be easily repurposed. I go to a big hospital and some medical clinics locally and they have retrofitted all their restrooms in this way. Or, again, you use the "porta-potty" model and simply put in stalls in both men's and women's restrooms and open them up to both genders: voila!

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tearknee

tearknee

1 hour ago, isalicat said:

I'm pretty sure no one is being *forced* to play on any team...and the solution to the bathroom problem is one that is being implemented everywhere I go these days: unisex bathrooms (which is more fair to women anyway as it eliminates those endless lines we used to stand in). I don't want anyone I don't know with a penis in my bathroom or dressing/changing room so if that makes someone uncomfortable, I am sorry about that but my safety/privacy is important to me.

And the gender-reversed scenario of little girls catching a little boy changing? would you respond to them laughing, teasing or touching/tickling in the same way?

Boys are falsely seen as less vulnerable by anglo society

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fairffaxx

fairffaxx

35 minutes ago, tres bien said:

I saw that he’s banning paper straws.

He's my age & I remember when plastic FlexStraws were introduced during my childhood in the 1950s -- prior to that, we used paper straws.  Plastic didn't become widely used for household goods until after WWII.  According to Wikipedia, paper straws were first patented in 1888 (though the Sumerians probably invented the device made from different materials c. 3000 BC).  Trump says that paper straws "don't work" but legions of teenagers sharing milkshakes with 2 paper straws in a single glass would disagree.

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Dimity

Dimity

1 hour ago, ebk57 said:

This hits very, very close to home... This will not make the "stars" who won't be in the same place as him be in the same place as him. He can't make them like him.

And it will only hurt those who want to see theater, hear music, or earn a living doing those things - which I'm sure doesn't bother him at all.  I'm glad there's nothing coming up this season that I was planning on going to see.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-takes-over-kennedy-center-200205406.html

He's such a spoiled child.

 

It looks like this is a developing story with not much info about plans going forward but does anyone else have a premonition as to who will be on stage at the next Kennedy Centre Honours Ceremony?  Kid Rock, Hulk Hogan and Cha Chi come to mind.

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Annber03

Annber03

3 hours ago, Dimity said:

Not just sports.  The obsession with the idea that men are putting on a dress in order to attack women in washrooms is just bizarre.  First and most obviously you don't have to be trans to put on a dress and go into a woman's washroom.  You don't even have to put on the dress.  As I said, bizarre.

Seriously, this. Like, do people really think some guy who actually wants to assault a woman is going to stand at the door to their restroom and be like, "Well, damn, I was gonna go in there and attack that woman, but since they'll only let certain women in there I guess I can't." 

If a guy wants to assault a woman, he's going to do it dress or no dress, restrictions or no restrictions. Criminals don't care about rules and laws - after all, isn't that the same argument the right keeps bringing up when trying to explain why we can't possbly enact any sort of gun control? 

Bottom line, this kind of scenario just...does not happen. And is exceedingly unlikely to ever happen. And if it does happen? It's still not any sort of justification for banning transgender people from using the same restroom as those who aren't transgender. 

Again I say, the people who obsess over the genitals of complete strangers in the stall next to them are the ones being really freaking weird and creepy here. Why the fuck is this stuff even any of your (general "your") business in the first place? 

Regarding the whole thing of transgender people in sports, repeating myself once more here, too, but it's just the whole, "But what if I get beat by a girl?!?!" reaction with a fresh coat of paint on it. It's just a bunch of insecure manbabies who can't deal with the fact that simply being cisgender men doesn't magically make them brilliant at every single thing they do, or try to do. 

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I am late to reply here, but I want to remind everyone that it wasn't DJT who said "best sex I ever had," it was supposedly Marla Maples saying it about him!

See cover of New York Post in this wikipedia link. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Sex_I've_Ever_Had

This is another reason I can't forgive Trump supporters for inflicting this guy on us. At one time, his sex scandals were relegated to the tabloids, where I could happily ignore them and go about my day. 

Now they're part of the government record and in the actual news and I have images in my head that no amount of brain bleach will ever be able to scrub away. *Rubs temples* 

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annzeepark914

annzeepark914

8 hours ago, tres bien said:

He still “insults” President Obama by him using his middle name because he felt mocked at the WH Correspondents dinner in 2012

His crazy MAGAs in house want to change the constitution so he can for a third term. Well so can President Obama but President Obama isn’t a megalomaniac 

I'd love to see Obama run against Trump. Talk about donnie's bigliest humiliation --followed by a humongous inauguration turnout for the new President Obama 😁

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suomi

suomi

15 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I don't view DJT as evil because he's piggish in his relationships. <snip> Did you see all those adorable young women who applauded the fact that they can now compete fair and square in their chosen sport? 

 

He brags openly about being a pageant predator.

He creeped on adorable young girls and young women for many years. During his pageant era (1996-2015 when he was 50-69 years old) he co-owned the Miss Universe Organization which included the Miss USA and Miss Teen USA pageants. Miss USA contestant minimum age is 18, average age of winners is 20.4 years.

Did you hear him bragging about strolling into Miss Teen USA dressing rooms while those adorable young women were naked? The age range for that pageant is 14-19 years. He also joked about his obligation to sleep with the contestants. 

JFK was a tom cat but he dallied with adults. Biden never joked about having old man sex with teenagers. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/12/donald-trump-miss-usa-dressing-room-2001-rehearsal

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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)
2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Bottom line, this kind of scenario just...does not happen. And is exceedingly unlikely to ever happen. And if it does happen? It's still not any sort of justification for banning transgender people from using the same restroom as those who aren't transgender.

Indeed; in all the school districts, cities, and states that protect (or protected <sigh>) the right of transgender people to use the restroom that matches their gender identity, and of nonbinary people to use the one best matching their gender identity, none saw a rise in attacks in restrooms, or in people pretending to be transgender in order to get into one.

The only harassment or assault that happens in any notable numbers in public restrooms is that against transgender and nonbinary people, not by them.

Edited by Bastet
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FilmTVGeek80

FilmTVGeek80

6 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Seriously, this. Like, do people really think some guy who actually wants to assault a woman is going to stand at the door to their restroom and be like, "Well, damn, I was gonna go in there and attack that woman, but since they'll only let certain women in there I guess I can't." 

If a guy wants to assault a woman, he's going to do it dress or no dress, restrictions or no restrictions. Criminals don't care about rules and laws - after all, isn't that the same argument the right keeps bringing up when trying to explain why we can't possbly enact any sort of gun control? 

Bottom line, this kind of scenario just...does not happen. And is exceedingly unlikely to ever happen. And if it does happen? It's still not any sort of justification for banning transgender people from using the same restroom as those who aren't transgender. 

Again I say, the people who obsess over the genitals of complete strangers in the stall next to them are the ones being really freaking weird and creepy here. Why the fuck is this stuff even any of your (general "your") business in the first place? 

Regarding the whole thing of transgender people in sports, repeating myself once more here, too, but it's just the whole, "But what if I get beat by a girl?!?!" reaction with a fresh coat of paint on it. It's just a bunch of insecure manbabies who can't deal with the fact that simply being cisgender men doesn't magically make them brilliant at every single thing they do, or try to do. 

👏🏾

I've had so many debates on Twitter with idiotic people - men and women - who come up with so many excuses as to why they are so obsessed with transwomen in particular. It's not that I want to see transmen picked on any more than they already are, but I've talked to so many people who whine about how this is all about feminism and men are trying to make females disappear, and when I ask about transmen and if they're trying to make men disappear they either ignore it or come up with some lame reason why transwomen are somehow more dangerous. When it comes to "saving women's sports," I think it's mostly White Karens who wanted to use any excuse for why they didn't make it farther in their sport or men who are creepily obsessed with it - which is why it's fully up the FIC's alley. Neither transmen (who do participate in sports, too) nor transwomen are taking over sports, especially the more popular sports.

Like you, I find the idea of being so preoccupied about this when going to the bathroom incredibly weird. The only reason I would be afraid of someone when I'm in a public restroom is if they gave me a reason to. I'm not spending my time wondering if the person next to me has a penis or not. I do my business and leave.

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Dimity

Dimity

1 minute ago, Bastet said:

The only harassment or assault that happens in any notable numbers in public restrooms is that of transgender or nonbinary people, not by them.

I raised a son and a daughter.  I never once worried when my daughter went into a women's washroom or changing room without me.  On the other hand I was the Mom standing right outside the men's room door whenever my son was in there without his dad.  I was not worried about a transgender person assaulting him.  Never even crossed my mind.

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Eri

Eri

  • Popular Post
(edited)
3 hours ago, Dimity said:

I raised a son and a daughter.  I never once worried when my daughter went into a women's washroom or changing room without me.  On the other hand I was the Mom standing right outside the men's room door whenever my son was in there without his dad.  I was not worried about a transgender person assaulting him.  Never even crossed my mind.

You just reminded me of a throwback from last year😉

image.png

Shout out to the tampon survivors! We appreciate your service.

Edited by Eri
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suomi

suomi

4 hours ago, Dimity said:

Not just sports.  The obsession with the idea that men are putting on a dress in order to attack women in washrooms is just bizarre.  First and most obviously you don't have to be trans to put on a dress and go into a woman's washroom.  You don't even have to put on the dress.  As I said, bizarre.

This is true. Men all over this planet have the freedumb to attack women, girls, toddlers and infants anywhere, for any reason or no reason, without a dress code.

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Annber03

Annber03

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

👏🏾

I've had so many debates on Twitter with idiotic people - men and women - who come up with so many excuses as to why they are so obsessed with transwomen in particular. It's not that I want to see transmen picked on any more than they already are, but I've talked to so many people who whine about how this is all about feminism and men are trying to make females disappear, and when I ask about transmen and if they're trying to make men disappear they either ignore it or come up with some lame reason why transwomen are somehow more dangerous. When it comes to "saving women's sports," I think it's mostly White Karens who wanted to use any excuse for why they didn't make it farther in their sport or men who are creepily obsessed with it - which is why it's fully up the FIC's alley. Neither transmen (who do participate in sports, too) nor transwomen are taking over sports, especially the more popular sports.

The "saving women's sports" one is especially hilarious considering those same people never seem to make a peep about actual issues affecting women's sports. Like, say, fair and equal pay, equal respect and treatment in terms of deals and media coverage and so on, the issue of women being sexually harassed and assaulted by men (like, say, the big abuse scandal that hit gymnastics a few years ago). 

Nope. Only when transgender women want to enter the sport do they suddenly care about "saving women's sports". 

I also love the people who talk about having transgender women in sports causes an "unfair playing field" and how they should have their own special events and so on. I just keep thinking, "Oh, now you want things to be fair (or at least, their definition of "fair", which basically means anything that coddles non-transgender people's feelings of discomfort)? Gosh, how very 'participation trophy' of you." 

(We won't even get into the fact that so many of the same people who rail against transgender people in sports will bend over backwards to make excuses for athletes who took steroids and whose records might be tainted because of that, or teams that were caught cheating to win games, or things of that sort. But sure, people, tell me more about how you just want things to be "fair".)

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Avaleigh

Avaleigh

7 hours ago, Lugal said:

  But I think there's an underlying sexism in the idea that a man will always beat a woman in any given sport.  While I have seen studies that show that transwomen can retain a higher level of strength, for the first 3 years after transitioning at least, strength is not the sole determining factor in most sports (not even in boxing, really).  If I were to fight Ronda Rousey, I wouldn't stand a chance despite being a man with a good six inches and probably sixty pounds on her.

Agreed that men aren't necessarily going to beat women in every sport or in every match up. It depends on a variety of factors. There are records in skiing, gymnastics, and in swimming, just to name a few examples, where women have outperformed men. 

That being said, at the end of the day, there's a reason why men and women compete separately in sports. It gives more opportunities for women to succeed, and this is, of course, important for women and girls for a variety of reasons. If you look at something like the LA or NYC Marathons, there has yet to be a woman who has beaten the men's record. Even when it comes to something like the "gender challenge" in the marathon, the women are given a head start in order to make it fair. For sports like the long jump or the high jump, the world records have been set by men. 

In figure skating, there are dozens of men who can do quadruple jumps. It's become common for men to perform multiple quads in a program. There's even a man who is consistently doing a quad axel. Meanwhile, it's still relatively uncommon to see a woman do a triple axel. Currently, there are only three women this season who can do it and only one who's nailing it consistently. (I'm excluding the Russians who aren't competing this season. Also, the Russians may or may not be guilty of using PEDs. Kamila Valieva is likely just one example.)

I don't think it's sexist to say that men sometimes/often have an advantage over women when it comes to a variety of sports. 

Regarding high school sports, I think it's important for there to be separate categories for men and women because of the scholarship opportunities that are offered. I wouldn't want to see sports become unisex because I think this would lead to fewer opportunities for women. 

As for trans athletes, I haven't seen any evidence that allowing trans athletes to compete will necessarily lead to unfairness for female athletes. 

Regarding the Olympics, I don't understand why there's resistance to having a trans division. I actually think it would go a long way to bringing positive exposure for trans athletes and the trans community in general. There would be more medal opportunities, and it would give the world a chance to get to know and root for various trans athletes. There would also be the added benefit of not having transphobic people attempting to tarnish an athlete's win with accusations of unfairness. 

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anony.miss

anony.miss

(edited)
9 hours ago, Dimity said:

 The obsession with the idea that men are putting on a dress in order to attack women in washrooms is just bizarre.

Beyond bizarre.

Once Trump voters decided to support a man found liable for raping E. Jean Carroll,  they lost any standing to discuss the dangers of sexual predators, imo. You can't elevate a proven rapist to the highest office in the land while also criticizing trans people for (supposedly) committing sexual assault in public bathrooms.

Edited by anony.miss
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Soapy Goddess

Soapy Goddess

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I don't think the price of eggs was the reason she lost.

Nor do I. I was simply replying to someone else who posted that thought.

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

the fact that you keep harping on about her laugh while shrugging off Trump's insane ramblings just speaks volumes about how insane this whole situation is. People's cividl and human ights are under attack, we've lost the respect of our allies,

No, we haven't lost the respect of our allies. In fact, we've gained the respect of potential adversaries. In 3 weeks times, Trump has met with just about every leader in these countries. He's making deals to help keep peace in our country and avoid WW3.

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

...and you're bugged about Kamala's laugh? Really? That's more of a concern to you than all of the above?

And yoyu wonder why people can't take those defending Trump seriously or get upset with them? 

Let's just say that I'm bugged about her stupid laugh in the same way that libs are bugged about Trump's sex life. Nothing ANY of us can do to change that.

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Soapy Goddess

Soapy Goddess

18 hours ago, Yeah No said:

He's always working off this massive grudge against Democrats

I don't blame him one iota. They went after him with a vengeance, including multiple impeachments, lawsuits, trials, etc. If he hadn't announced early that he was going to run for a 2nd term, half of that shit would never have come to fruition. I mean seriously...because he put Stormy's fee in the wrong column? 

18 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Do they tell their kids not to be like him but he's still doing right for the country anyway?

Nowadays I don't think they're telling their kids anything! Kids from 5 and up all have world news in their hot little hands. And they pretty much have come to their own conclusion. The age of innocence that we once knew is sadly gone.

18 hours ago, Yeah No said:

And don't tell me that Biden, Harris and all the other Democrats are just as bad because they are not anywhere near as corrupt

Agree to disagree. They're spending was out of control. Billions of dollars wasted on ridiculous programs...all sparking rumors of kickbacks. I mean come on...did we really need to fund Iraqi Sesame Street?

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Soapy Goddess

Soapy Goddess

14 hours ago, Anela said:

He won't do right by all of us. He doesn't care about any of us. 

I don't think anyone believed he was elected because of the price of eggs. 

He cared enough about the young girls to stop boys from entering their sports activities. This is just one example. Given time, I'm sure they'll be more.

I don't believe he was elected on the price of eggs either! I addressed this up thread, but apparently, people didn't read/see the quote to which I was replying. 

14 hours ago, Lugal said:

But I think there's an underlying sexism in the idea that a man will always beat a woman in any given sport.  While I have seen studies that show that transwomen can retain a higher level of strength, for the first 3 years after transitioning at least, strength is not the sole determining factor in most sports (not even in boxing, really).  If I were to fight Ronda Rousey, I wouldn't stand a chance despite being a man with a good six inches and probably sixty pounds on her.

Sorry, but biological factors are not sexist. It's more about our hormones. A man will always beat a woman. If not in boxing, how about swimming? Lung capacity? People need to go beyond the scope of sexism and empathize with the women who are/were facing this issue in their chosen sport field.

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Soapy Goddess

Soapy Goddess

10 hours ago, Dimity said:

And any   man who gets his jollies dressing as a woman so he can listen to women pee or passes as a woman to get into their changing room because he wants to assault a woman isn't going to be deterred by Trump announcing there are officially two genders.

No, but they could be arrested. Whereas a trans with male parts sanctioned to play in women's sports cannot.

9 hours ago, suomi said:

Not a threesome. Intimate time with both brothers but the encounters were separated by weeks or months. 

That's not what I heard. Maybe it was at the orgy. Regardless, in the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?

Soapy Goddess

Soapy Goddess

4 hours ago, anony.miss said:

Once Trump voters decided to support a man found liable for raping E. Jean Carroll,  they lost any standing to discuss the dangers of sexual predators, imo.

Speaking of EJC, does anyone find it interesting that she decided to file a lawsuit after 20+ years? And coincidentally when DJT announces he's running again? Things that make you go hmmmm....

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tearknee

tearknee

(edited)

E. Jean Carroll was undoubtedly *used* by the left but that does NOT mean that she was not telling the truth. The fact that she has largely been abandoned by them, now that she is no longer useful, confirms my assessment.

Your suffering being used as a political tool to hurt an enemy isn't confined to the far right using a Schiavo and etc.

Edited by tearknee
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Annber03

Annber03

2 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

No, we haven't lost the respect of our allies. In fact, we've gained the respect of potential adversaries. In 3 weeks times, Trump has met with just about every leader in these countries. He's making deals to help keep peace in our country and avoid WW3.

There is just absolutely zero truth to any of this. The rest of the world that isn't being run by insane dictators is looking at our country in horror and wondering what the hell we're doing. 

He's gained the "respect" of dictators because they know he'll do their awful bidding and he will sell out our country to them for his own financial gain. Period. End of story. 

Quote

Let's just say that I'm bugged about her stupid laugh in the same way that libs are bugged about Trump's sex life. Nothing ANY of us can do to change that.

Except Kamala's laugh doesn't harm anyone, whereas Trump has numerous sexual assault allegations against him.

But sure, yeah, the two things are totally the same. Mmhm. 

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Anela

Anela

(edited)
2 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Speaking of EJC, does anyone find it interesting that she decided to file a lawsuit after 20+ years? And coincidentally when DJT announces he's running again? Things that make you go hmmmm....

No, I don't. Women are shamed out of coming forward. I do find it strange that people would vote for a man that a judge decided had sexually assaulted her. 

Edited by Anela
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tearknee

tearknee

27 minutes ago, Anela said:

[..] I do find it strange that people would vote for a man that a judge decided had sexually assaulted her. 

people who are dedicated to causes and ideologies [like social justice] are not most people/voters.

most people decide by emotion. If the BTK killer was a candidate but was making *most voters* feel happy... yes :'(

1 hour ago, tres bien said:

There’s a fine line between being delusional and being ignorant 

Just wondering... me? Or voters?

 

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Anela

Anela

(edited)
23 minutes ago, tearknee said:

people who are dedicated to causes and ideologies [like social justice] are not most people/voters.

most people decide by emotion. If the BTK killer was a candidate but was making *most voters* feel happy... yes :'(

Just wondering... me? Or voters?

 

There's so much concern about trans-women being in bathrooms, though. You would think they wouldn't be voting for someone who was accused of rape, by more than one woman. 

I also don't see that she's been abandoned by anyone. 

Edited by Anela
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