Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Avaleigh]

On 11/8/2024 at 4:13 PM, Suzn said:

Pretty much in the same way that I couldn't be friends with a serial killer.

 

These are the hardest sorts of comments to read.

People I love voted for Trump including my mom and stepdad. My mom raised me to treat others the way I would want to be treated. My mom struggled for years as a single mother in a job that was considered to be a "man's job". It was also a job where she encountered racism and sexism on a regular basis.

My mother didn't vote Republican until Trump. It was honestly like watching a family member get sucked into a cult. You don't know it until you're living it. My mother is a kind person, who loves gardening, cooking, and caring for animals including her pets. It's upsetting to know that people think all sorts of horrible and negative things about people like her because she happened to vote for Trump. I feel like a lot of the sympathy and understanding that is supposed to come with being a supporter of the more compassionate party just goes out of the window when it comes to regular, working class people who don't view the situation the same way as they do. 

I feel defensive on behalf of some of these people. No, I obviously don't  mean the openly hostile, sexist, racist, homophobic assholes who were MAGA before it was even being called that. I know that my mom isn't a racist and that isn't the reason she's voting for Trump. I also understand that she is consuming lies and party propaganda. She genuinely believes that she is a patriot and that Trump will help get the country on what she thinks is the right track. It also seems to mean nothing to her that she has nothing in common with Trump. I actually think he has contempt for the things that are important to her, but somehow she doesn't see it that way. I get prickly when people paint all Trump supporters with the same brush because they aren't a monolith. I also don't want to cut off the people that I love because I disagree with them about politics. It wouldn't help anything, it would just make me feel sad. 

I voted for Kamala Harris. I would never vote for Trump and agree with most of what has been said in this thread. I'm not as shocked as others by what happened based on what I was hearing from people outside of my everyday bubble. There were two eye opening moments to me, in the last 4-5 weeks before the election that told me something was in the air.

One was when I was at the hair salon. I go to a Black hair salon in LA. It's a great opportunity to get a sampling of what Black people, mostly women, of different ages and backgrounds are thinking in terms of pop culture and current events. Kamala didn't have anything close to the support that I thought she would have and this is in LA! More surprising, were two older ladies who made it plain that they were voting for Trump. Like, lowkey had no effs to give about who knew. I didn't get the impression that they were informed by the same news sources that I or most of the people here consume. They seemed to mainly be motivated by faith and culture war stuff. Obviously, it's a joke that Trump is thought of as the person who will best protect their Christian values, but that's simply the way they see it. I can't make sense of why Trump is seen as a protector of Christianity in America, I can only guess that they see Kamala as less likely to agree with them on matters of faith and culture. 

The other eye opening moment was at a baby shower. The party was wrapping at this point when the subject of homelessness came up. This led to a flurry of criticism of the people in charge and the feeling of the uptick of crime in general in LA. What was eye opening to me, was the realization that several of these people were getting their "news" from TikTok. I didn't really think that any people I knew were primarily getting their news from social media. I sort of naively thought that this was something that other people did, not people I actually know. I can't help but think that people not taking the time to do real research is a part of how we got here. 

This has all been disheartening and I'm genuinely worried that we aren't necessarily going to walk away from this having learned the right lessons.

Edited November 10 by Avaleigh

[Blergh]

It's going to be a challenge but we each must hold onto what has been positive about our nation, its heritage and its ideals to pass that on to the next generations- regardless of how others may attempt to bastardize all the above for their own purposes!

 

[bluegirl147]

I really do think people getting "news" from social media is a big reason why Trump continues to be a force.  That "news" isn't fact checked.  It isn't from reputable sources.  And when you see people you know sharing it and liking it you are probably going to think well then it must be true.

I don't hate all Trump voters.  My son voted for him this time.   He was a Bernie supporter in 2016 and never got over how he perceived Bernie being mistreated.   So he doesn't trust Democrats.  He also thinks the economy was better under Trump and will be again.  He doesn't think Trump is affiliated with Project 2025.  He doesn't think the ACA will repealed and he won't lose his Medicaid.  He gave me permission to tell him I fucking told you so if he is wrong.  Not that I will get any pleasure put of that because that would mean things have gotten dark for all of us.

 

But for all those Trump voters who calling people libtards and telling us to drown in our liberal tears and sending those texts to African Americans including children telling them to report to a plantation they can go fuck themselves.

Edited November 9 by bluegirl147

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I don't hate all Trump voters.  My son voted for him this time.   He was a Bernie supporter in 2016 and never got over how he perceived Bernie being mistreated.   So he doesn't trust Democrats.  He also thinks the economy was better under Trump and will be again.  He doesn't think Trump is affiliated with Project 2025.  He doesn't think the ACA will repealed and he won't lose his Medicaid.  He gave me permission to tell him I fucking told you so if he is wrong.  Not that I will get any pleasure put of that because that would mean things have gotten dark for all of us.

I have a special disdain for the Bernie Sanders and his Bernie Bros. Bernie wasn't mistreated by the Democrats back in 2016, he's the one who chooses to be an independent giving little time and money to the Democratic party but expecting them to welcome him with open arms once he decided to run for president as a democrat. 

I hold a similar disdain for Jill Stein who pops up once every 4 years to run for president before skulking back into the ether once the election is over. If you truly want to overhaul the 2 party system and open the playing field to viable 3rd party candidates or shift to a slate of political parties similar to what's done in other countries, then you need to put in the work all the time not just every 4 years.

Edited November 9 by Ohiopirate02

[peacheslatour]

9 minutes ago, Blergh said:

It's going to be a challenge but we each must hold onto what has been positive about our nation, its heritage and its ideals to pass that on to the next generations- regardless of how others may attempt to bastardize all the above for their own purposes!

 

I just want to thank everyone in this topic for being here, being kind and being strong for each other. It means so much in times like this to be able to have somewhere to go and friends to vent to. I didn't expect Primetimer to be one of the best places to go this past week, well knowing their policy of "no politics" and I applaud the site for having the courage, sensitivity and wisdom to give us this space.

[27bored]

15 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The "villain edit"? How did they give him the "villain edit"? By reporting on the abhorrent things that he did? The media already does enough sanewashing of 45. Were they supposed to completely ignore his serial crime spree? Were they supposed to ignore him being held liable for sexual assault? Should they have completely ignored him being cool, with a bunch of his supporters wanting to murder his vice president? 

 

This is part of the problem. After awhile, it just starts to less like you're holding him accountable and more like bitterness and resentment. I'll use an example: Kim Kardashian. In 2009, saying she's just popular because she has a fat ass and a sex tape would be a damning indictment. Now, a billion dollars later, saying that's how she got famous would make you sound like a hater. Yes, even if it's still technically true.

And this also comes often results in the whole speck of dust versus a stake dynamic that some people don't want to talk about. I know several women who were all game to hear from Stormy Daniels and any other woman who wanted to accuse Trump of sexual assault who don't even who Tara Reade is. 

15 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I guess it's only up to the Democrats to do this. When the Republicans lose, it's okay for them to foment an insurrection. Then they get rewarded by being elected again. No introspection for them. 

45 lost in 2020. I don't buy some "Oh, people really like him and think he's a martyr, and the mean Dems were just too mean to him" rationale. The biggest difference between then and now is economic concerns. Unfortunately, an uninformed public decided to romanticize 45's time in office. They chose to ignore the fact that a big reason we have these economic issues is because of how badly that psychotic mishandled the COVID pandemic.

Not to defend Jan 6, but I think Democrats leaning into this was one of the major mistakes they made as far as messaging is concerned.

Full disclosure: I'm a Democrat. I voted for Hillary, Joe, and Kamala. But, I'm also an adult who follows politics and have for a long time. 

In my opinion Trump's supporters had a right to feel a bit...cheated. His whole first term for them was basically two years of Russiagate, six months of an impeachment, and then COVID.

The people who believe the 2020 election was stolen (and I'm not espousing that idea, I'm just saying they exist) didn't get two years of a Special Counsel investigation and see people get subpoenaed and questioned and determine if they lied and all that. They got a press release that said "we looked and we didn't see any significant voter fraud that would've changed the election. Beat it." 

I think part of understanding politics is being able to accept and acknowledge that people's beliefs are real to them even if you don't agree with or take them seriously. And I think there's ample evidence to conclude that while Democrats feel the the party and media have been building this iron-clad case against Trump, to millions of voters all they were doing is eroding whatever credibility they have and wearing on their patience. Every dumb joke or comment Trump says or tweets does not warrant 72-96 hours of TV programming. It just doesn't. 

But the media was determined not to learn that so now we're in for another four years of it. Yay for us (said mirthlessly).

16 hours ago, Dimity said:

16 hours ago, Enigma X said:

People can analyze this to death if they must. I am going to stick with most of his voters simply weren't going to vote for a half Black/half Southeast Asian woman. 

 

This isn't fair and more importantly, this is how Democrats wind up actually insulting the people they should want to win over. To be clear, Kamala polled at an asterisk four years ago when she was running. She didn't win a single Primary state. In the very crowded 2020 Democratic Primary, most Democrats put all their eggs in Joe's basket and left them there while he did minimal campaigning and put forth minimal effort to get it. 

In fact, the three frontrunners were Biden, Bernie, and Buttigieg. Three white men, two old as dirt. 

Kamala was knee-capped by only having three months to run and having to basically present her vision while defending the last four years in which Joe Biden was President. So I have a good amount of sympathy for her. But her loss isn't a referendum on race or even sex. Because it's clear when Democrats have the opportunity they're just as quick to run into the arms of whichever rich, old white man the party puts up as the most electable. 

If we really want to have a conversation, how Democrats treated Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020 was way worse than how Kamala has been treated.

[peacheslatour]

She didn't win a single Primary state. In the very crowded 2020 Democratic Primary, most Democrats put all their eggs in Joe's basket and left them there while he did minimal campaigning and put forth minimal effort to get it. 

Joe did minimal campaigning because there was a planet wide outbreak of a disease that was killing people by the hundreds of thousands all over the world. I hope you weren't attributed it to any laziness or lack of will on his part. I do agree she wasn't my first choice. I would have preferred Warren, Buttigieg or Raskin. I do however think she would have been a good president. We desperately need new blood in the party.

[Enigma X]

Let me be clear! I am not trying to win anyone over. I am trying to make sure I, along with my family and friends are not harmed because we are racial minorities, part of the LGBTQIA+ population, immigrants, etc., etc., etc.. When a candidate openly says he will place people who are part of those communities in camps, I am not trying to break bread with the people who said yes that is fine with their vote. Absolutely miss me with every bit of that. Some other anti-trump supporters are more than willing to sit at that table.

[DrSpaceman73]

2 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

it's also weird that the people in the NFL who actually took a stand against Trump weren't actually the people you'd expect.

Tom Brady and the Pats declined an invite to the Trump WH, and later on lifelong Republican Bill Belichick also declined an award from Trump.

That may have been a pr move. I'm almost positive brady is a known trump supporter. 

[Dimity]

My problem with the MAGA republicans is that they all must attend the Church of Perpetual Grievance.   They're angry people who have convinced themselves that  "life was better when..." and no matter what you say they will never believe this isn't true.  That so many of them are falling for conspiracy theories and turning their backs on proven science is just an extra layer of awful.

[DrSpaceman73]

I can't find the quote I was trying to respond to, but the problem isn't just Trump.  It's that he has rebuilt the whole party in his image and personality.  Literally.  If you disagree or cross hom you're branded disloyal and thrown out.  The result is this is the republican brand for the next generation.  Even if he lost this was going to be true.  Multiple articles literally so he stacking every government position with loyalists to him as just about the only criteria. 

He has taken over the party and rebranded it. It's not going anywhere fir decades. 

[kittykat]

I'm getting tired of people demonizing Kamala Harris post election.  I'm seeing threads of threads of NOBODY WANTED HER! And it's so damn disheartening.  If anyone is to blame for the Democrats campaign snafu it's President Biden and the DNC who should have made this announcement in 2023 where there was proper time to vet people or get Harris into the public eye better.

But still they had 100 days to regroup and throw a campaign together, which was done.  Why are people now complaining that Harris was forced on them as a choice?  There was no forcing, Biden chose to step aside and she was put up not by force but because SHE IS THE VICE PRESIDENT!  When the president doesn't feel up to the job anymore who gets the call, THE VICE PRESIDENT!  

You want primaries 100 days before the election?  That would have been a shit storm.  You want someone like Buttigieg or even Bernie put up in her place.  Sure, yeah, let's do that because there's definitely not going to be a backlash over a black woman, who is again the VICE PRESIDENT, being passed over for a man.  The DNC made the most logical path forward that they could.  And again this whole thing was majorly fumbled by Biden's obstinence.

No one is more critical of the Democratic Party than other Democrats and the Republicans are loving every minute of it. Don't blame Kamala's likability. Likability is only a factor in political campaigns when you're female.  Blame the disinformation cycle perpetuated by social media, blame ingrained racism, sexism and bigotry.  I'm not saying the DNC is completely blameless, they have their work cut out for them.

I can listen to Trump voters tell me not to take it personally.  That they truly were thinking about the economy and their families.  And I can even empathize with that.  I don't want Trump voters lurking and posting here feeling like they're not welcome.  We appreciate your insight your reasoning, but in return, we reserve the right to tell you why our side feels betrayed, angry and honestly fucking hopeless.

I've heard plenty of Trump voters say they're not racist, they care for women.  But it also falls into the whole "bad apples spoiling the bunch.". When I see Trump voters on my television, I see swarthes of people cheering on a man who has no qualms telling his followers that women, minorities and LGBTQIA+ are less than them.  Trump voters may not openly hate like that but why align with such people that embrace that hate?  I'm aware that some people just want to get by and that they came to the conclusion that Trump's policies align with their view more than Harris' did.  But is signing away the potential future of women, immigrants and other threatened groups worth the potential lowering of gas prices? 

I'm still grappling with all of this.  I've seen multiple conservative threads calling out Liberals to come over and talk to them, listen to where they come from and why they voted for Trump.  They do and in return, the liberal person defends or rebuts and it takes no more than 5 or 6 responses before the thread devolves into name calling.  From my personal experience, our side has tried for over eight years to engage in a conversation with Trumpers; bring up legitimate issues, combat what disinformation might be circulating and understand one another.  For the last eight years we have been stonewalled with "BENGHAZI, EMAILS, pizza gate, Epstein , Hunter Biden, FAKE NEWS! Antifa!". We tried and the majority of Trump supporters refused to listen.  So if Trump supporters feel like Democrats aren't reaching out and attempting to understand this election cycle, that's because we're tired and WE ARE DONE!

Maybe the economy and immigration were bigger issues to these voters but I'm sorry but Trump voters truly need to understand how much this result is a slap in the face to women, even if some women don't yet realize it.

Edited November 9 by kittykat

[Makai]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

 

I really do think people getting "news" from social media is a big reason why Trump continues to be a force. 

 

I know it will appall some people but I do get my news from TikTok. By that I mean that I get my news from every major news channel and every major newspaper in the country in addition to political experts, economic experts and any other kind of expert you could imagine and they bring receipts. 

Social media definitely has its problems and can be a toxic cesspool, but it’s a byproduct of people’s tendencies outside of social media. The apathetic citizen who completely ignores the news isn’t going to tune in if social media didn’t exist. Someone who is hardcore MAGA isn’t going to listen to an opposing viewpoint if they’re not on TikTok. 

If we are going to point a finger at anything, I would point it at our education system (NOT the individual teachers that have to work within the system) that is more focused on teaching kids to memorize facts than think critically, instilling intellectual curiosity or giving them even the most basic understanding of how the world actually works. There is a reason the education divide is as stark as it has ever been and Trump says he loves the poorly educated. 

Edited November 9 by Makai

[Is Everyone Gone]

41 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

That may have been a pr move. I'm almost positive brady is a known trump supporter. 

According to Trump, he isn't anymore. Trump said that he distanced himself almost immediately and Trump was hurt.

Antonio Brown is the big Buccaneers MAGA. He actually campaigned with Trump.

Edited November 9 by Is Everyone Gone

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Makai said:

I know it will appall some people but I do get my news from TikTok. By that I mean that I get my news from every major news channel and every major newspaper in the country in addition to political experts, economic experts and any other kind of expert you could imagine and they bring receipts. 

Social media definitely has its problems and can be a toxic cesspool, but it’s a byproduct of people’s tendencies outside of social media. The apathetic citizens who completely ignores the news isn’t going to tune in if social media didn’t exist. Someone who is hardcore MAGA isn’t going to listen to an opposing viewpoint if they’re not on TikTok. 

If we are going to point a finger at anything, I would point it at our education system (NOT the individual teachers that have to work within the system) that is more focused on teaching kids to memorize facts than think critically, instilling intellectual curiosity or giving them even the most basic understanding of how the world actually works. There is a reason the education divide is as stark as it has ever been and Trump says he loves the poorly educated. 

Undermining our education system has been a goal of the right for decades.  An uneducated populace is easier to control and deceive.  Hence Trump saying he loves the uneducated.

[Dimity]

8 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Maybe the economy and immigration were bigger issues to these voters but I'm sorry but Trump voters truly need to understand how much this result is a slap in the face to women, even if some women don't yet realize it.

Never has that expression about leopards eating faces been more relevant.  If things go forward as many are anticipating there are going to be a lot of people going "why me" in a few years.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, Makai said:

I know it will appall some people but I do get my news from TikTok. By that I mean that I get my news from every major news channel and every major newspaper in the country in addition to political experts, economic experts and any other kind of expert you could imagine and they bring receipts. 

Social media definitely has its problems and can be a toxic cesspool, but it’s a byproduct of people’s tendencies outside of social media. The apathetic citizens who completely ignores the news isn’t going to tune in if social media didn’t exist. Someone who is hardcore MAGA isn’t going to listen to an opposing viewpoint if they’re not on TikTok. 

If we are going to point a finger at anything, I would point it at our education system (NOT the individual teachers that have to work within the system) that is more focused on teaching kids to memorize facts than think critically, instilling intellectual curiosity or giving them even the most basic understanding of how the world actually works. There is a reason the education divide is as stark as it has ever been and Trump says he loves the poorly educated. 

I also get a lot of news from Tik-Tok because it is one of the few platforms where the algorithm has not yet been corrupted. I know we've been told it's a Chinese company who will sell our data and whatnot to the Chinese government and needs to be banned. But, the actual truth is Bytedance is not Meta nor X and does not have the same agreements in place as those two companies and the US government. 

3 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Undermining our education system has been a goal of the right for decades.  An uneducated populace is easier to control and deceive.  Hence Trump saying he loves the uneducated.

The No Child Left Behind Act really fucked up American education and I don't know if it will ever recover. 

[Avaleigh]

50 minutes ago, 27bored said:

This isn't fair and more importantly, this is how Democrats wind up actually insulting the people they should want to win over.

My question is, how does the Democratic party win over the people they've lost? How do they get back some of the people who have lost faith that they are the best party for the working class? 

If people aren't interested in winning over anyone who voted for Trump this time around, how do we bridge the gap so that this doesn't happen when Vance or Trump Jr. decides he wants to run in four years?

I can understand people feeling frustrated that the Democrats are often the ones who are expected to compromise or reach across the aisle, I just don't know how else we're supposed to bring people back to the party if there isn't some sort of way to focus on the areas where there is common ground. We've suffered a huge loss here, so clearly something needs to change if we don't want this to happen again.

At the end of the day, most people want the same things. They want to feed and protect their families. They want jobs, they want basic items to not cost so much, they don't want to feel persecuted, etc. How can we build on that in a way that translates into more votes?

[DrSpaceman73]

17 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

According to Trump, he isn't anymore. Trump said that he distanced himself almost immediately and Trump was hurt.

Antonio Brown is the big Buccaneers MAGA. He actually campaigned with Trump.

Did he just distance himself publicly though?  Or actually stop supporting him?  

He never came out for the opposition either. 

Still skeptical. 

[Is Everyone Gone]

Maureen Dowd has a good column on this. (Gifted article)

 

 

9 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Did he just distance himself publicly though?  Or actually stop supporting him?  

He never came out for the opposition either. 

Still skeptical. 

Meh. For a public figure, I feel like distancing yourself publicly is good enough. No one knows how much these people vote at the ballot box (or if they vote at all). 

[Palimelon]

Quote

But is signing away the potential future of women, immigrants and other threatened groups worth the potential lowering of gas prices? 

And lower eggs prices too! Don't forget lower egg prices.

[DrSpaceman73]

17 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also get a lot of news from Tik-Tok because it is one of the few platforms where the algorithm has not yet been corrupted. I know we've been told it's a Chinese company who will sell our data and whatnot to the Chinese government and needs to be banned. But, the actual truth is Bytedance is not Meta nor X and does not have the same agreements in place as those two companies and the US government. 

The No Child Left Behind Act really fucked up American education and I don't know if it will ever recover. 

There is a big difference between trying to reform public education for the better, no matter how ill conceived,  and telling people to pull their kids out of school, that teachers are sexual groomers and the whole point of school is to indoctrinate your kids with communist and so called 'woke' ideas. 

Edited November 9 by DrSpaceman73

[kittykat]

11 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

And lower eggs prices too! Don't forget lower egg prices.

"But, my eggs!"   Should be the new "But her emails!" Over the next four years when Trump supporters don't approve of something he does.

[Dimity]

26 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Maureen Dowd has a good column on this. (Gifted article)

She  makes some good points but one thing she talks about I will never understand.  She says the Dems made a mistake in embracing endorsements from people like Beyonce because most voters can't even afford a ticket to one of her concerts.   Ok.  But how does that explain the support born with a silver spoon in his mouth Trump has received?  It's not like Trump has ever pretended he's not a rich man who has always moved in rich man circles.  Does he have the common touch because Kid Rock endorsed him?

[Palimelon]

Or the fact that a man even richer than Trump -why, the richest man in the world - endorsed him.

 

Edited November 9 by Palimelon

[Palimelon]

I mean, how many voters can afford a Tesla?

 

[Dimity]

1 minute ago, Palimelon said:

I mean, how many voters can afford a Tesla?

Exactly!  Her criticism reminded of the critics back in the day who insisted Al Gore wasn't allowed to talk about environmental issues because he lived in a big house.  If all Democrats are going to be held to the standard that those aspiring to leadership are not allowed to be any better off than the people they are trying to represent but this is never an issue for republicans  - then that's just ludicrous.

[Palimelon]

Given that Trump is (probably) offering cabinet positions to Musk and RFK Jr, maybe Harris should have done the same to Beyonce and Taylor Swift?

"Ok, Beyonce, you can be secretary of education, Swift, you're in transport."

[27bored]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Joe did minimal campaigning because there was a planet wide outbreak of a disease that was killing people by the hundreds of thousands all over the world. I hope you weren't attributed it to any laziness or lack of will on his part. I do agree she wasn't my first choice. I would have preferred Warren, Buttigieg or Raskin. I do however think she would have been a good president. We desperately need new blood in the party.

Well, he was hindered in some ways by the pandemic, but also because Joe is an elderly man who wasn't up for the rigors of running for office. I wouldn't call it laziness, but he wasn't up for it, either. My main point with that was to say Joe got a lot of support by dint of being associated with the Obama years and being a known commodity, so he didn't have to do much to sell himself to the base because of it.

I'm saying Democrats can't have it both ways: you can't play it safe when you want the base to coalesce around someone, but then accuse the country of being backwards or Not Ready For a certain type of candidate when they underperform in the General election. It would be like if Mayor Pete was running, whom I like. I don't know if he would win the Democrat Primary if he were to run in 2028. But it would be bogus and gaslighting nonsense to argue that if strings were pulled to basically give him the nomination (the way they were to help Hillary and Biden) and he proceeded to lose handily in the General Election, it's because the country Isn't Ready For a gay man to be President. 

27 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

My question is, how does the Democratic party win over the people they've lost? How do they get back some of the people who have lost faith that they are the best party for the working class? 

If people aren't interested in winning over anyone who voted for Trump this time around, how do we bridge the gap so that this doesn't happen when Vance or Trump Jr. decides he wants to run in four years?

I can understand people feeling frustrated that the Democrats are often the ones who are expected to compromise or reach across the aisle, I just don't know how else we're supposed to bring people back to the party if there isn't some sort of way to focus on the areas where there is common ground. We've suffered a huge loss here, so clearly something needs to change if we don't want this to happen again.

At the end of the day, most people want the same things. They want to feed and protect their families. They want jobs, they want basic items to not cost so much, they don't want to feel persecuted, etc. How can we build on that in a way that translates into more votes?

IMHO, there are three-ish things Democrats can address to win back some of the support they lost:

1. Embrace DEI as an identity, not a political strategy: Democrats should not be ashamed of being the big tent party that wants to represent different types of people. But giving a face and a voice to certain demographics should not mean giving a platform for people to air out their grievances with white people and men. I'm not saying don't talk about racism, sexism, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, or any other form of bigotry, but they need to be more tactile and only talk about it when that's what we're talking about, if that makes any sense. It's clear from this election that people care about illegal immigration. The hue and cry from the left should not be to call millions of voters xenophobes for caring about illegal immigration. Democrats shouldn't waste their ammo on the non-bigots because they'll have none left when the actual bigots show up. Ahem.

2. Acknowledge the complicated relationship between governance and morality: Political issues typically are more complex than we give them credit for, in my humble opinion. The causes and solutions to problems can be multi-faceted. Just because Democrats have ideas that could help certain minorities doesn't speak the other sides motivations for their ideas or disagreement with ours. Every socio-economic issue should not boil down to "do you like Black people? Y/N?" or "do you want to support women? Y/N?" Those of us old enough to remember the 2000s remember the "Support Invading Middle Eastern Countries = Patriotism" math many on right did, so we shouldn't follow suit when it comes to other issues. 

3. Develop a respect for whataboutism: I guess I have a cynical outlook on politics in part because I see how quickly forgive and forget when it's their turn in the hot seat. Like the saying goes "it's no fun when the rabbit's got the gun". I would just say nobody likes an immoral person, but everybody hates a hypocrite. 

[Dimity]

I guess the big reveal for me with this election was realizing not everyone is as exhausted by Donald Trump as I am. I was so ready to never have to hear that voice again.  I genuinely thought he'd lose because the last 8 years have been stressful and people were ready to turn to the last chapter of the World Revolves Around Donald Trump book and get on with things.  Boy was I wrong.

Edited November 9 by Dimity

[partofme]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I have a special disdain for the Bernie Sanders and his Bernie Bros. Bernie wasn't mistreated by the Democrats back in 2016, he's the one who chooses to be an independent giving little time and money to the Democratic party but expecting them to welcome him with open arms

I like Bernie a lot and agree with him on almost everything, but I didn’t vote for him in the 2016 primary, don’t think he was mistreated at all, and I wasn’t planning on voting for him in 2020 either, I wanted Elizabeth Warren, but NY scheduled their primary so late in the year that by the time it was time to vote Biden was the only one left.  I wasn’t happy at all about Biden being the choice but he’s been a lot better than I ever expected and a lot of that is because he was open to advice from Sanders.  

I’m also tired about arguments about what the Democrats did wrong.   Kamala may have made mistakes and I didn’t agree with her on everything, but I don’t think her mistakes were that bad, the problem is Fox News and the right wing media being allowed to lie without any repercussions, so people believe the lies.  We need a Fairness Doctrine like there was before Reagan got rid of it, otherwise nothing is ever going to really improve.

[Is Everyone Gone]

While I have my issues with Bernie, I think 2016 was an example of what's wrong with the Democratic selection process. It was just Hillary's "turn," so they went full steam ahead with Hillary, even though behind the scenes there were a lot of complaints about what a poor orator Hillary was, her somewhat lazy campaigning, and her chaotic management style which led to open infighting in her staff. The emails issue was also something everyone knew about.

I like Hillary a lot, but every time I see her interviewed I think how remarkable it is that someone who is so obviously intelligent, funny and discerning can also come across so robotically when actually campaigning.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Antonio Brown is the big Buccaneers MAGA. He actually campaigned with Trump.

Makes sense - they're both quite fond of sexual assault and harassment. 

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Palimelon said:

I mean, how many voters can afford a Tesla?

 

Many Tesla owners now have decals/bumper stickers that say "we bought this before he went weird" or something to that extent.

I think many Dems (and Liberals up here in Canada, to be honest) need to better understand certain groups, especially immigrant communities and even the first generation born on this side of the planet.  I don't feel like they do, and yes, I've come across more than my share of "guilty White liberals" who go out of their way to be PC around me and that's really annoying (actually, it's not just White people.  I see it from A LOT of people whose families have been in these parts for generations).  And sometimes what they do is pretty offensive because they don't REALLY know me or my culture.  Benevolent racism is a thing.  And yes, many people in the Democratic party (from what I've seen) and to an extent, Liberals and NDP up here, give off that kind of vibe.  Somehow, we tend to be more chill.  I guess that's how we are.  And I think that's what's driving, say, Latino communities away.  The left seems to be too focused on fighting discrimination itself, forgetting about other systemic issues like language and deeply rooted cultural social customs that might affect access to certain services.  These deeply rooted cultural customs aren't necessarily the result of colonialism.  In many East Asian cultures, it comes from Confucianism, which I've talked about a few times here already.  The practice is thousands of years old.  Hierarchy is big.  The belief of harmony is huge as well.  You know why access to mental healthcare is such an issue in these cultures?  Because just admitting that you're anxious or depressed shows that you are weak (I don't get it. If you're weak, shouldn't you try to be stronger?  Like, if you want more muscles, you can't just get more muscles, you need to train and eat more protein).  There's also the ancestral factor that I don't fully understand (you have mental health problems because someone back a few generations did some sort of misdeed/you were cursed by that person.  I suppose that it's sort of "correct" since depression and anxiety can be genetic.  But wouldn't call that a curse!).  There's also the traditionalist belief that your issues are due to the lack of harmony in your body.  Well, no harmony?  Make it harmonious then!!!  Think about baking.  Is the batter too wet?  Add more dry ingredients.  All of this has even deterred potential professionals into the field.  Because it's shameful to be a therapist or psychiatrist (yes, the MD factor doesn't always help).  I just thought I'd bring up my perspective.  The benevolent left are always surprised when I tell them this!!!!!  

Reference material on Asian mental health

Edited November 9 by PRgal

[Annber03]

 

14 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Ok, I'll try something different. DISCLAIMER: I did NOT compose this list. It's making the rounds on FB...and does not necessarily reflect my views. 

Although I didn't vote for Obama, I only hoped the best for him. I never said "he’s not my President" because he certainly was the President of the United States.

Here is my issue with the whole non-acceptance of 47:

For the last 4+ years, Dems have gone scorched earth. You have salted the fields and now you want to grow crops. But 72+ million Americans have memories longer than a boll weevil.

We remember the 4 years of attacks and impeachments.

We remember the constant “he's not our president” and the “Resistance…”

We remember hundreds of Trump supporters physically attacked.

We remember Trump supporters getting doxed, and fired from jobs.

We remember riots and looting.

We remember “a comedian” holding up the President’s severed head.

We remember a play in Central Park paid with public funding, showing the killing of President Trump.

We remember Robert de Niro yelling “F" Trump” at the Tony awards and getting a standing ovation.

We remember Nancy Pelosi tearing up the State of the Union Address.

We remember the non-stop and live fact checking on our President and his supporters.

We remember non-stop in your face lies and open cover-ups from the media.

We remember the President and his staff being spied on.

We remember five Senators shot on a ballfield.

We remember every so-called comedy show turn into nothing but a Trump hate fest.

We remember 95% negative coverage in the news.

We remember the state governors asking and getting everything they ask for and then blaming Trump for their problems.

We remember a Trump top aid verbally assaulted in two DC restaurants.

We remember that supporters were called every name in the book for supporting President Trump.

We remember that Hollywood said they would leave after Trump was elected but they stayed.

This list is endless, but you get the idea.

This meme is all very interesting. You know what I remember? 

I remember Trump spending the entirety of Obama's term questioning whether he was really born here. I remember peoiple insisting Obama was some kind of secret Muslim who was going to implement Sharia law - McCain, of all people, had to actively make a point of telling a woman at one of his rallies that no, Obama was not a Muslim when she brought it up as a reason she was concerned about Obama as president. 

As noted elsewhere, I also remember all the "Obamas are chimps" stuff, and the watermelon memes. I also remember a lot of them saying "not my president" about him, because they were so sure he wasn't even legally born here. 

 I remember a shitton of Republican investigations into Hiliary, investigations that took years and tons of taxpayer money, with absolutely nothing to show for it, because the GOP had zero evidence for their claims against her. Unlike the investigations into Trump, which we actually DID have evidence for, since, y'know, we all literally watched January 6th play out on our television screens, and we all heard the audio of the phone call to Georgia where Trump was begging to find more votes to prove he totally won in 2020. 

When a president tries to violently overturn a democratic election because they can't deal with the fact they lost it, I think that's worthy of an investigation and an impeachment. Also should be worthy of barring them from ever being able to run for any kind of political office again. If Hilary or Obama had pulled that, their careers would be over, and rightly so. Why does Trump get a pass? 

I have not heard of a single instance of Trump supporters being doxxed and losing their jobs. If any of them did lose their jobs, it was probably due to them being stupid enough to say something racist on social media and not realiing that social media posts have consequences for your job. That's on them for posting something stupid. 

So DeNiro said "Fuck Trump" at an awards show. You know what? Trump held a rally here in my town back in January of this year, where he said that we just needed to "get over" school shootings in this country. And he said this just a few short weeks after a deadly school shooting that happened here in my state. 

So yeah. Anyone who has the nerve to be that callous about people being shot and killed at school? Fuck them. Trump supporters don't get to be offended over people saying "Fuck Trump" when they're the ones who went around gleefully saying, "Fuck your feelings" after Hilary lost, and were out there happily saying the most racist and misogynistic and xenophobic things to people. Treat others like you want to be treated, and all that. 

I do remember the Senators who were shot on a ballfield. And you know what else I remember? How everyone in the Democratic Party immediately came out and condemened that shooting, and made it clear they did not support that kind of violence. 

Meanwhile, people have gone on shooting sprees on behalf of Trump (remember the mass shooting in El Paso a number of years ago?), and have, once again, actively tried to violently overturn a democratic election on his behalf, and from Trump and the GOP as a whole we've gotten...crickets. Maybe one or two members of Congress give a muted, pathetic, "Hey...stop that..." response. That's it. 

Not sure what riots that meme is talking about, but if they're referring to the stuff that happened after George Floyd, black people had every right to get out there and protest, and the vast majority of those protests were very peaceful. Any riots that happened largely were because some people who didn't care about the protests just wanted to take advantage and stir shit up, and there was also evidence that there were people actively trying to instigate violence and make it seem like it was Black Lives Matter protestsers who were responsible. 

(I also remember peaceful protesters being rounded up and taken away in vans because Trump encouraged people to round them up, which totally doesn't scream "fascist leader behavior" at all, nope.)

The idea that anyone could be offended at the media for daring to fact-check a president and his supporters is just...hilariously sad. Yes, how dare we demand our president actually say things that make sense, instead of babbling on about how, say, injecting bleach will stop you from getitng COVID. How dare we call out his supporters for spreading anti-vaccine misinformation in the midst of a deadly pandemic. The horror. 

If Trump got a lot of negative press, he brought it on himself with his vile rhetoric and behavior. Full stop, Nobody should have to present a nice edit of a guy who went around bragging about grabbing women by the pussy, or encouraging his supporters to, yet again, violently try and overturn an election, or threatening the lives of journalists on national television, or things of that sort. 

The rest of that list is just full of complete nonsense and lies, and I'd be here all day if I were to correct every last bit of it. This meme does nothing to allow sympathy for Trump or his supporters, it just sounds like sour grapes from people. 

The bottom line is this - people are about to lose very important, basic civil and human rights, if they haven't lost them already. I do not have the right anymore to decide what I want to do with my reproductive decisions. Neither do other women. We've already had stories of pregnant women dying because doctors weren't able to do anything to help them, lest they get persecuted under an abortion ban.

LGTBTQ+ people are going to lose their rights, up to and including the ability to get married, if the Supreme Court overturns gay marriage (which is significantly likely now). We'll go back to a world where pre-existing conditions aren't covered, which is going to totally fuck over people like my sister in terms of getting any sort of decent healthcare. Medicare and Social Security will be gutted, which will screw over people like my mom, who rely on that to survive. Immigrants will be deported, and this administration will not give a shit about their legal status in doing so, or attempting to do so. Mass shootings will continue to be a thing because we'll have a party in power that will refuse to do anything about gun violence. Guns have more rights than people now.

And so on. People are scared because they know people are going to suffer and die under this guy, just like they did the first time around. So no, compared to all of the above, I really do not care about Trump supporters being mad that people were being mean to him and giving him negative press, or calling them out for spreading misinformation, or haivng numerous investigations into him (for things he absolutely needed to be investigated for), or Nancy Pelosi ripping up a piece of paper when he spoke, or DeNiro yelling, "Fuck Trump!" at an awards show. Trump supporters' hurt feelings over being called out on their lies and misinformation and awful behavior and rhetoric does not even begin to compare to the suffering others experienced under Trump, and will experience again. The two things are not the same. Not by a long shot. For anyone to try and imply otherwise is laughable, to say the least. 

People don't get to support someone who wants to take away people's civil and human rights and then act shocked when nobody wants to associate with them anymore. 

Edited November 9 by Annber03

[Ceindreadh]

12 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

It was in response to Ceindreadh who didn't understand a previous message.

In the interest of transparency, I didn't compose the list. It is making the rounds on FB. It's simply a general list made up by a Trump supporter. Thought it would suffice because apparently a heartfelt message isn't appreciated or understood.

The 'previous message' was in response to your post where you said things along the lines about how social media was terrible because

Before SM, no one knew where people stood politically. Nor did we care to know.

And I pointed out that it was actually good to know who was happy to vote for a racist felon sexual abuser (I may not have used those specific terms)

I'm not sure why you think a list of the trump fans imagined slights is any sort of explanation as to why it's good to not know if a person you're interacting with is an apologist for racism, sexual abuse etc - if I'm being generous, I'll just chalk it up to weaponised naivety.

Personally though, if somebody is gleefully supporting trump, it tells me everything I need to know about them and given the chance I will certainly restrict my real world dealings with them.  

 

[bluegirl147]

If Bernie had ever been the nominee I would have voted for him but I never thought he would have won in 2016 or 2020.  I liked some of his policies but thought he was the wrong messenger. 

I was an Elizabeth Warren fan.  I still am. 

I like Hillary but she just does not have that charisma her husband and Obama have.  And though I am loathe to say it the charisma some people see in Trump.  I've heard she is much better one on one.

Repealing the Fairness Doctrine was a huge mistake and it clearly helped Republicans.   Things really took a turn when Rush Limbaugh went national and Fox News premiered.  How do you counter that?

[Is Everyone Gone]

10 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I like Hillary but she just does not have that charisma her husband and Obama have.  And though I am loathe to say it the charisma some people see in Trump.  I've heard she is much better one on one.

Hillary is fun, funny and engaging ... when she's not running for office. when she is running for office, she seems to memorize a few talking points and she repeats them endlessly. She comes across as frosty and robotic.

Then the MINUTE she's not running anymore (like literally you can see the transformation even in the concession speeches), she's chill and funny again.

I've never seen anything like it.

[Soapy Goddess]

4 hours ago, Makai said:

I am going to try and word this very carefully because I truly do not want this to come off like an attack. Personally, my issue with conversations with Trump supporters (universally, I’m not referring to any single person) is that I never see them address the specific horrible things he has said and done. When people bring up how a second Trump term is likely to negatively impact queer individuals/women/the economy or the racist/sexist/violent things he has done it is either ignored, minimized or denied. 

It’s hard to have a conversation right now when people are terrified for themselves and the next generation. The simple reality is that Trump’s policies are divisive so this vote was also divisive. Trump’s policies are not for everyone. They are deliberately designed to leave out or actively punish certain groups. That’s not a divide that will not be easily (or ever) healed and it is far too raw for it to happen in the near future. 

I logged out right after I posted so I am only just seeing this. It’s probably too late to do anything but didn’t want to just ignore you. Most of my post works without the list since I didn’t address any specific points on the list. I have no issue with editing out the mentions of the list you posted. 

Thanks, Makai. I think you're right. It's too soon to have a discussion on this subject, trying to reach a middle ground of understanding without the hate speech. I don't think attacking an opposing view is necessary, but that's just my opinion.

People don't want to hear why many voters were torn by the choices, which is why many didn't even bother going to the polls. They don't want to hear about open borders and how the immigrants who came here legally feel about that. 

I thought we might be able discuss why those people went to the other side, but I see that's not possible. Appreciate your post.

[Dimity]

44 minutes ago, partofme said:

the problem is Fox News and the right wing media being allowed to lie without any repercussions

Part of the problem is that so many of the major news sources are now owned by billionaire right wingers.  Murdoch is the best known but there are others.  When the Washington Post - the paper associated with Watergate and bringing down a corrupt president - was told by their owner that they could not endorse Kamala Harris I was shocked.  It's not just Fox anymore.

[Anela]

6 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

Also, if all the undocumented workers are deported, this country will lose a lot of vegetable and fruit crops because they are the majority of field workers.  But hey, as long as billionaires get their tax cuts, we can deal with "hardships."  /s/

I know.  If people voted for him, because of food prices, etc, did they not know that Elon said the rest of us would have to deal with hardship for at last a year, if he was in charge? The billionaire telling those who are already experiencing hardship, that welp, we’d just have to keep dealing.  No help was coming soon. 

5 hours ago, partofme said:

It feels worse to me this time because last time as bad as it was, it felt like we could fight back a little.  This time he controls both houses of Congress and the Supreme Court, and this court has already been open about how corrupt they are, so there are no checks and balances.  Plus there’s Project 2025 which will easily pass since the Republicans control the whole government, there’s him saying he wants to be a dictator, saying he wants to go after all his enemies within, I worry about the safety of the Democrats in Congress and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and people like Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Kimmel.  I even worry about my own safety, as a white female and a nobody I’m probably low on the enemies list but I don’t dare say anything against him online in my own name, I’m not really on social media except for LinkedIn because I need a job but I‘ve been afraid to even like any post that speaks out against him. 

Last night, I just kept thinking that he promised he would let the police have a purge.  He would give them a whole day, or maybe “just” an hour, so that they could do whatever they wanted, to those they say are criminals.  

2 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Let me be clear! I am not trying to win anyone over. I am trying to make sure I, along with my family and friends are not harmed because we are racial minorities, part of the LGBTQIA+ population, immigrants, etc., etc., etc.. When a candidate openly says he will place people who are part of those communities in camps, I am not trying to break bread with the people who said yes that is fine with their vote. Absolutely miss me with every bit of that. Some other anti-trump supporters are more than willing to sit at that table.

Same. 

2 hours ago, kittykat said:

I'm getting tired of people demonizing Kamala Harris post election.  I'm seeing threads of threads of NOBODY WANTED HER! And it's so damn disheartening.  If anyone is to blame for the Democrats campaign snafu it's President Biden and the DNC who should have made this announcement in 2023 where there was proper time to vet people or get Harris into the public eye better.

But still they had 100 days to regroup and throw a campaign together, which was done.  Why are people now complaining that Harris was forced on them as a choice?  There was no forcing, Biden chose to step aside and she was put up not by force but because SHE IS THE VICE PRESIDENT!  When the president doesn't feel up to the job anymore who gets the call, THE VICE PRESIDENT!  

You want primaries 100 days before the election?  That would have been a shit storm.  You want someone like Buttigieg or even Bernie put up in her place.  Sure, yeah, let's do that because there's definitely not going to be a backlash over a black woman, who is again the VICE PRESIDENT, being passed over for a man.  The DNC made the most logical path forward that they could.  And again this whole thing was majorly fumbled by Biden's obstinence.

No one is more critical of the Democratic Party than other Democrats and the Republicans are loving every minute of it. Don't blame Kamala's likability. Likability is only a factor in political campaigns when you're female.  Blame the disinformation cycle perpetuated by social media, blame ingrained racism, sexism and bigotry.  I'm not saying the DNC is completely blameless, they have their work cut out for them.

I can listen to Trump voters tell me not to take it personally.  That they truly were thinking about the economy and their families.  And I can even empathize with that.  I don't want Trump voters lurking and posting here feeling like they're not welcome.  We appreciate your insight your reasoning, but in return, we reserve the right to tell you why our side feels betrayed, angry and honestly fucking hopeless.

I've heard plenty of Trump voters say they're not racist, they care for women.  But it also falls into the whole "bad apples spoiling the bunch.". When I see Trump voters on my television, I see swarthes of people cheering on a man who has no qualms telling his followers that women, minorities and LGBTQIA+ are less than them.  Trump voters may not openly hate like that but why align with such people that embrace that hate?  I'm aware that some people just want to get by and that they came to the conclusion that Trump's policies align with their view more than Harris' did.  But is signing away the potential future of women, immigrants and other threatened groups worth the potential lowering of gas prices? 

I'm still grappling with all of this.  I've seen multiple conservative threads calling out Liberals to come over and talk to them, listen to where they come from and why they voted for Trump.  They do and in return, the liberal person defends or rebuts and it takes no more than 5 or 6 responses before the thread devolves into name calling.  From my personal experience, our side has tried for over eight years to engage in a conversation with Trumpers; bring up legitimate issues, combat what disinformation might be circulating and understand one another.  For the last eight years we have been stonewalled with "BENGHAZI, EMAILS, pizza gate, Epstein , Hunter Biden, FAKE NEWS! Antifa!". We tried and the majority of Trump supporters refused to listen.  So if Trump supporters feel like Democrats aren't reaching out and attempting to understand this election cycle, that's because we're tired and WE ARE DONE!

Maybe the economy and immigration were bigger issues to these voters but I'm sorry but Trump voters truly need to understand how much this result is a slap in the face to women, even if some women don't yet realize it.

And how they weren’t paying real attention to what he was promising, before they voted.  He has thrown so much out there, to deliberately confuse people, too. The terrible things he and Vance were saying, Pete said it took the attention off Kamala and walz. 
 

the MAGA man I know and loathe, used to praise him for being able to hijack the news cycle, every time.  

2 hours ago, Makai said:

I know it will appall some people but I do get my news from TikTok. By that I mean that I get my news from every major news channel and every major newspaper in the country in addition to political experts, economic experts and any other kind of expert you could imagine and they bring receipts. 

Social media definitely has its problems and can be a toxic cesspool, but it’s a byproduct of people’s tendencies outside of social media. The apathetic citizen who completely ignores the news isn’t going to tune in if social media didn’t exist. Someone who is hardcore MAGA isn’t going to listen to an opposing viewpoint if they’re not on TikTok. 

If we are going to point a finger at anything, I would point it at our education system (NOT the individual teachers that have to work within the system) that is more focused on teaching kids to memorize facts than think critically, instilling intellectual curiosity or giving them even the most basic understanding of how the world actually works. There is a reason the education divide is as stark as it has ever been and Trump says he loves the poorly educated. 

I have no issues with TikTok.  I follow people from there, on instagram and threads.  I had it, and was addicted for a month, but I wasn’t posting anything, and only had a handful of friends there.

59 minutes ago, partofme said:

I like Bernie a lot and agree with him on almost everything, but I didn’t vote for him in the 2016 primary, don’t think he was mistreated at all, and I wasn’t planning on voting for him in 2020 either, I wanted Elizabeth Warren, but NY scheduled their primary so late in the year that by the time it was time to vote Biden was the only one left.  I wasn’t happy at all about Biden being the choice but he’s been a lot better than I ever expected and a lot of that is because he was open to advice from Sanders.  

I’m also tired about arguments about what the Democrats did wrong.   Kamala may have made mistakes and I didn’t agree with her on everything, but I don’t think her mistakes were that bad, the problem is Fox News and the right wing media being allowed to lie without any repercussions, so people believe the lies.  We need a Fairness Doctrine like there was before Reagan got rid of it, otherwise nothing is ever going to really improve.

I voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary, and Hillary in the general in 2016. I liked all of the women in 2020, and Elizabeth Warren was my favourite.  She had plans for everything, too. But one guy felt like he was being scolded by his mother.  🙄 someone who was interviewed. 

Edited November 9 by Anela

[Fable]

31 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Medicare and Social Security will be gutted, which will screw over people like my mom, who reliy on that to survive.

As well as the rest of people who are, at some point, going to have to rely on it too, including those who supported the new king.  

[peacheslatour]

Seeing Trump lately, I wonder if he's ever going to make it to January. Then we'll have to contend with President Vance. He's awful but the thing he has going for him is he's as charismatic as an overflowing ashtray.

[Fable]

41 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I thought we might be able discuss why those people went to the other side, but I see that's not possible. Appreciate your post.

Maybe it will be one day, but a lot of people feel angry and betrayed.  I know I do and haven't been in touch with them for the last few days.  I will have to buck up and get over it.  However, I have had these discussions with my family especially for the last 8 years or so, and I cannot bring myself to understand the appeal of man who lies so easily about so much, changes his mind every day or so depending on how the wind blows, enjoys mocking and dehumanizing people. I care about my family and friends, and I don't plan on disowning any of them (unless they start spewing out his disturbing rhetoric.)  However, not going to lie, I'm giving them the side-eye.  

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Seeing Trump lately, I wonder if he's ever going to make it to January. Then we'll have to contend with President Vance. He's awful but the thing he has going for him is he's as charismatic as an overflowing ashtray.

Sometimes I wonder if he fakes things in a “fake it ‘til you make it” sort of way!  I read his book and was empathetic and his “rise” to success sounded a bit like my dad’s (though my dad’s childhood was nowhere NEAR as destitute. He had two parents who were invested in his education and that of his siblings.  However, the family was not middle class.  In order to make ends meet, they had to sublet rooms in their apartment).  Emigrating to and working in Canada was also a culture shock for my dad (and mom).  Unlike other immigrants, my parents didn’t stay isolated in their cultural community outside of work and found balance between the two.  That’s probably why I don’t quite understand code switching since I see tradition as kind of fluid, if at all there.  It’s not one or the other.  Anyway…..

[Palimelon]

Quote

injecting bleach will stop you from getitng COVID

Trump was an idiot.

Everyone knows you have to make a bleach-Dettol-Mr. Clean cocktail to stop you from getting COVID.

Quote

President Vance. He's awful but the thing he has going for him is he's as charismatic as an overflowing ashtray.

C'mon now, that is a rude thing to say.

To overflowing ashtrays.

[ebk57]

46 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Part of the problem is that so many of the major news sources are now owned by billionaire right wingers.  Murdoch is the best known but there are others.  When the Washington Post - the paper associated with Watergate and bringing down a corrupt president - was told by their owner that they could not endorse Kamala Harris I was shocked.  It's not just Fox anymore.

This, and the Fairness Doctrine.  But I believe a huge (if not THE biggest) thing to change everything to the worse is Citizens United.  When the big, unchecked money started flowing into politics, it was over.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Sometimes I wonder if he fakes things in a “fake it ‘til you make it” sort of way!  I read his book and was empathetic and his “rise” to success sounded a bit like my dad’s (though my dad’s childhood was nowhere NEAR as destitute. He had two parents who were invested in his education and that of his siblings.  However, the family was not middle class.  In order to make ends meet, they had to sublet rooms in their apartment).  Emigrating to and working in Canada was also a culture shock for my dad (and mom).  Unlike other immigrants, my parents didn’t stay isolated in their cultural community outside of work and found balance between the two.  That’s probably why I don’t quite understand code switching since I see tradition as kind of fluid, if at all there.  It’s not one or the other.  Anyway…..

 

He’s not even from the Appalachian Region. He grew up in wealthy suburbs of Ohio. He used to visit his grandmother in KY during the summers and that experience was apparently so terrifying and horrendous to him that…

He wrote an entire book about the Appalachian region that stereotyped us all as lazy, helpless, drug addicted and violent people. He didn’t write a memoir about his experience visiting his grandmother, he wrote a book that reflected on the Appalachian experience as a whole. Academics and the media have ran with this farce as the true Appalachian experience. Real Appalachians wouldn’t write this kind of book about their own people. It’s an outsider’s stereotypical perspective on a complex region with diverse people and experiences.

He called Trump “America’s Hitler” and then decides to be Trump’s running mate the next election cycle. I guess Hitler’s ok when you’re his right hand man?

Edited November 9 by peacheslatour

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, Makai said:

I know it will appall some people but I do get my news from TikTok. By that I mean that I get my news from every major news channel and every major newspaper in the country in addition to political experts, economic experts and any other kind of expert you could imagine and they bring receipts. 

Just to be clear, I understand that legitimate news can be gained from TikTok. What I was referencing was specifically about these people looking at, for example, migrant caravan scare tactic videos and thinking this qualifies as news or some sort of hard hitting exposé. I did not get the impression that these people watched these vids and then did their own research regarding facts on immigration. 

[Spartan Girl]

15 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Seeing Trump lately, I wonder if he's ever going to make it to January.

I’ve been wondering the same thing. A lot can happen in two months.