Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Anela]

10 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

And once again, not one iota of empathy for the victim of migrant crime.

BTW, did anyone see the mother of the latest victim speaking today?  It was heartbreaking to watch, and extremely disheartening the way politics is adding insult to (their) injury. All the left cares about is getting back at DJT. Instead, the migrants get more press and sympathy.

 

The exact same words could be said about Dems. They will never call out a migrant criminal because they don't have the integrity to face the heinous crimes of rape and MURDER!  How on earth could this be when Dems tout themselves as caring and empathetic? I'm weeping for the victims, not the criminals.

We’ve  called out migrant crime, but nobody has done anything about Elon musk. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited April 17 by Anela

[ProudMary]

Beginning May 1, 2025

https://maydaymovementusa.org/

There's more at the website, including a link to get involved. I'm just quoting some snippets here.

We the People are building the Mayday Movement! We are a true grassroots collaborative started by concerned citizens who connected over Reddit, and later joined together with other socially active organizations. 

...

This is a deliberate and careful plan of action in response to a Constitutional crisis.

Our strategy is to establish a 24/7, legal, non-violent demonstration on the National Mall, calling on Congress to take the only logical step in this crisis: impeach, convict and remove Donald Trump.

...

We are also partnering with other organizations (such as 50501 and General Strike) to mobilize and unite large groups and ensure a strong presence at our Mayday site on the National Mall.

...

Our plan includes several daily rallies and a daily midnight vigil to acknowledge the loss of human rights, human lives and a compromised and uncertain future due to Trump’s illegal acts.

[tres bien]

Gramps can’t act presidential ever 

He has to drag everyone into his stupid evil bullshit while entertaining his guests and the press with his mean girl nonsense 

Today while sitting with Italian PM Meloni he can’t show respect for former President Jimmy Carter saying “Jimmy Carter died happy you know why? He wasn’t the worst president. Joe Biden was”

Too bad Gramps won’t be around when the history of him is written and taught to kids about how the most dishonorable person was put into the most honorable job in America and he dishonored it every single day

 

Edited April 17 by tres bien

[PRgal]

With all that's going on in the world, I'm beginning to wonder whether Canada is the only sane country left.  And that's only if the Liberals win on April 28.

[Anela]

1 minute ago, Kemper said:

Oh my God, thank you. If they have been threatened and have proof (letter, recorded phone call, email, etc.) ...why not make it public? Wait. Since that would probably be handled by Trump's Justice Department... that would be a non-starter. So I am gathering that Trump and his toadies are truly above any sort of law in this country? How do you feel about that....all you Rethugs (including you, Sen. M) need to resign. You are finished, done. This is truly terrifying.

They should make it all public. Even if this DOJ is corrupt.  

[tres bien]

More from Mr Warmth during press conference with PM Meloni

Asked by reporters about a shooting at the FSU student union today “things like that take place”

[Anela]

Me, looking for all of the people who bang on about their right to own guns, because of tyrannical governments. 

They’re really fucking quiet.  

[lookeyloo]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

They should make it all public. Even if this DOJ is corrupt.  

I have said this for a long time.  If they muster their resources and there are enough of them, it would be harder to muzzle and threaten them.  They could all also lawyer up and I know that would take $$ and not all of them are rich.  But they did make an oath to uphold the constitution.  

[ProudMary]

1 minute ago, lookeyloo said:

But they did make an oath to uphold the constitution.  

^^^THIS!

Here's what I've been thinking about: Do you remember early in the first Trump administration, there was a young Black soldier who was killed in Niger? After many days had passed, the Commander on Chief finally deigned to make a condolence call to his young widow, who was pregnant with their child at the time of her heroic husband's death. To this grieving woman, Trump said, "Well, I guess he knew what he was getting into."

Every single one of these Republican electeds took an oath to uphold the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic, just as that young man did. So, I say, "I guess you knew what you were getting into."

Be brave and do your sworn duty!

(Here's a 2017 link to the story of Trump's disrespect to the widow of Army Sgt. Johnson.)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-told-la-david-johnson-widow-that-he-knew-what-he-was-getting-into-congresswoman-says/

[Mollywolly555]

What real tesustance looks like:

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/4/17/2316937/-What-Real-Resistance-Looks-

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, Notabug said:

There is also the fact that the portrait of President Obama that Trump had removed was not in the living quarters of the White House, but in the public portion.  It was in the grand foyer of the East wing, where other presidential portraits hang.  If Trump didn't want the portrait hanging in his private rooms at the White House, fine, absolutely his choice.  But to remove a portrait of a former president from the People's House in an area where it is meant to be displayed for the public is quite juvenile and silly.  BTW, it appears that Trump is the first president to ever commission a portrait of himself and hang it in the gallery with the other presidents' portraits. Figures.

That I did not know, but wow, that just makes his actions even more stupid and pathetic. 

Regarding Mr. Garcia, alongside all the other excellent arguments that have been potrayed here, there's also the fact that Trump and his administration are full of criminals, so they are about the LAST people who get o say or do shit about anything relating to crime and law and order, or make any claims about someone's SUPPOSED criminal activity/past. If you Trump supporters out there are happy to keep defending Trump despite his criminal past, I don't want to hear a single peep out of you about Garcia or anyone else, be they an immiigrant or born and raised here. Not a damn word. 

[tres bien]

Senator Chris Van Hollen was denied access to his constituent Mr Garcia by the El Salvador government yesterday but one day earlier 7 GOP reps were allowed in to tour the El Salvadorian concentration camp 🤔

Edited April 18 by tres bien

[fastiller]

1/4

2/4

3/4

4/4

Edited April 18 by fastiller

[Mollywolly555]

2 hours ago, Mollywolly555 said:

tesustance sh be resistance.  Sorry 

 

[Spartan Girl]

Kilmar’s alive

Bless Senator Van Hollen.

[peacheslatour]

Sen. Chris Van Hollen confirmed Thursday night that he met with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a man who the Trump administration said it mistakenly deported to El Salvador in March.

"I said my main goal of this trip was to meet with Kilmar. Tonight I had that chance. I have called his wife, Jennifer, to pass along his message of love. I look forward to providing a full update upon my return," Van Hollen wrote in a post on X.

[ProudMary]

9 minutes ago, Mollywolly555 said:

tesustance sh be resistance.  Sorry

No worries. I think we all understood. 🙂

FYI, for future reference, clicking the three dots in the upper right corner of your post, will pull up an edit button so you can make corrections. 

[Lantern7]

1 hour ago, tres bien said:

Senator Chris Van Hollen was denied access to his constituent Mr Garcia by the El Salvador government yesterday but one day earlier 7 GOP reps were allowed in to tour the El Salvadorian concentration camp 🤔

I have this mental image of the reps getting driven around the facility in a tram. Drinks are involved.

Not-So-Innocent question: how much trouble can you get for lunging at a government official? When I take the express bus, there’s a sign saying it’s a felony to harm the drivers. I’m thinking throwing a punch at someone who might deserve it these days would be a hundred times worse. 

[ProudMary]

Just now, Spartan Girl said:

Kilmar’s alive

I'm overwhelmed. Sitting here crying. I've been thinking the worst for quite some time. Senator Van Hollen is a hero. 

Now let's get him back!

[Eri]

Oh thank goodness! In light of events these past few days, I thought I'd add some more uplifting news.

Free Childcare Made Available in New Mexico

"In one of the poorest states in the nation, where the median household income is half that and childcare costs for two children could take up 80% of a family’s income, the impact was powerful. The state, which had long ranked worst in the nation for child wellbeing, saw its poverty rate begin to fall. New Mexico has long had one of the highest “official poverty rates” in the nation.

But using a metric that accounts for social safety net programs – like universal childcare – that’s slowly shifting. According to “supplemental poverty” data, 17.1% of New Mexicans fell below the federal “supplemental” poverty line from 2013 to 2015 (a metric that takes into account cost of living and social supports) – making it the fifth poorest state in the nation by that measure. But today, that number has fallen to 10.9%, one of the biggest changes in the country, amounting to 120,000 fewer New Mexicans living in poverty."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/11/childcare-new-mexico-poverty

Well done to Lujan Grisham for investing in early childhood education for the state, and to the advocacy groups who pushed for policy changes to support their communities. Taking steps to reduce poverty and promote children's well-being can positively benefit the overall health of society. This also demonstrates that meaningful change is achievable, if we fight for it.

[tearknee]

11 hours ago, Dimity said:

I remember saying this back during the pandemic and it's even more true now - a far too large segment of the population, even as the bombs are falling, would be screaming "you expect ME to close my curtains?  No one tells ME what to do."

I will never support the "peace movement". Diana Gould was no hero. Her demand for peace would have rewarded the junta and aggression and the Belgrano was not a war crime - the reason things like that are not legally crimes is to discourage feints, fake retreats and trojan horse style tactics.

[Anela]

25 minutes ago, tearknee said:

I will never support the "peace movement". Diana Gould was no hero. Her demand for peace would have rewarded the junta and aggression and the Belgrano was not a war crime - the reason things like that are not legally crimes is to discourage feints, fake retreats and trojan horse style tactics.

This was about masking, and keeping six feet apart. To protect ourselves, and each other. 

[tearknee]

You know perfectly well that Dimity was talking with comparison about how WW2 would be treated if it happened today

[Dimity]

19 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

And once again, not one iota of empathy for the victim of migrant crime.

What does this have to do with Mr.  Garcia who is the victim here?  I think more people need to be concerned going forward about becoming victims of an overzealous government who, so far, refuses to heed the rulings of the courts. 

[Mollywolly555]

2 hours ago, ProudMary said:

No worries. I think we all understood. 🙂

FYI, for future reference, clicking the three dots in the upper right corner of your post, will pull up an edit button so you can make corrections. 

Thank you very much!!!! Just what I needed, besides reading my posts more carefully before I post.

[EtheltoTillie]

President of El Salvador is mocking Abrego Garcia on Twitter. OK you saw him now we keep him. Nyah Nyah Nyah. 

[Soapy Goddess]

23 hours ago, Yeah No said:

The truth is that migrant crime doesn't occur at any greater rate than crime committed by anyone else including citizens so making it about them being a migrant is not the issue. I (and I'm sure Dems. in general) have sympathy for any victims of violent crime no matter who committed that crime. But that's not what I see coming from the right. The right only cares about minorities committing crimes, whether they are citizens or not.

Shall white people be against minorities in general based on the rate of their responsibility for violent crime? What about the crime that white immigrants commit? You don't think they commit any? Oh that's right, no one on the right cares about that so you'll never hear about it.

It's just racism, pure and simple. If those migrants were white the right would not care less about any crime they committed. And if the victims were not white they similarly would not care less about them either. So please don't make this about hypocrisy because there's far more coming from the right as far as I can see.

The real issue is that the right just doesn't like migrants if they are minorities. If they were white Trump would be welcoming them with open arms whether they were coming here legally or not.

I agree it's not always a migrant committing crime. What I'm saying is that I never see anyone here (or Dems in general) empathize with ANY victim of migrant crime. When I spoke of Laken Riley a while back, I don't recall one person expressing sympathy for the family. 

The only thing "white people" are against is the criminal migrants (who came here illegally, btw) with proven records to be punished for their crimes, just like any other criminal. So, no, it's not racism. Crime has no color.

 

[suomi]

Palate cleanser. He traveled seven miles! The desert is cold at night, the lows currently are in the 40s (F) in that area. Volunteers encountered two mountain lions/cougars during a 16-hour search.

A true good boy: rancher’s dog leads two-year-old Arizona child to safety

Toddler had wandered from his home in to mountain lion territory when Buford, out on his nightly patrol, found him

Scotty Dunton, a rancher whose property is seven miles away from Allen’s home, said that his dog, Buford, had discovered the wandering boy. The canine had been patrolling the ranch, his regular function, and appeared to have protected and shepherded the missing boy to safety after discovering him. The boy reportedly told the rancher he had slept under a tree.

“When I was driving out the driveway, I noticed my dog was sitting down by the entrance,” Dunton, who owns Dunton Ranch in Kingman, said in a video posted by the sheriff’s office. “I look up and the little kid’s standing there with my dog.”

Dunton told NBC’s News12 of Phoenix that he “had heard about the missing child this morning, so I knew it was him”. He also described Buford, a five-year-old Great Pyrenees-Anatolian mix, as a natural guardian.

“He goes out at night and just kind of patrols. He goes half a mile, a mile from the house and just makes big loops, keeps coyotes out,” Dunton said.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/17/rancher-dog-finds-arizona-toddler

 

Edited April 18 by suomi

[Soapy Goddess]

19 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Mr Garcia has nothing to do with migrant crime.  He was not accused of any crime.  Just because the Trump administration is slandering him doesn't make it true. 

According to his records there were several warrants out for his arrest. He also seriously beat his wife who had two restraining orders against him. And while that might not be your definition of migrant crime, as a member of MS-13, he's not exactly an angel. Plus, he DID enter the U.S. illegally, which is still a crime, last time I checked.

 

19 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I couldn't agree more but it's the Trump administration who is playing politics with people's lives.

The Biden administration allowed this to happen with their open border policy. Same as they did with being soft on crime.

19 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Do you weep for the victims when they are immigrants and the criminals are American citizens?

I weep for ANYONE who is the victim of crime. Contrary to popular belief, I don't discriminate on who I empathize and sympathize with. As the victim of a crime myself (by a white man), my heart goes out to anyone suffering.

19 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And no, it's not an "opinion", it's based on actual factual things that Trump has done and is doing. He has no respect for the place he lives, or the job he holds. My famiy reents our apartment. If we behaved even remotely like him, we'd be out on our ear so fast our heads woudl spin. The same standards should apply to him. Period. End of story. When you try and overthrow a democratic election, you do not get to have a say in anything that happens at the White House anymore. Or you shouldn't, anyway. 

I'm sorry if your family is being harassed for hanging pictures (of your choice) on the walls. That's all I was talking about.

14 hours ago, Anela said:

We’ve  called out migrant crime, but nobody has done anything about Elon musk. 🤷🏻‍♀️

He's too busy knocking up every woman that catches his eye 🙄

[suomi]

Finally, the Trump regime has met its match

I suspect the testosterone-poisoned lackeys around King Trump are urging him to hit back even harder, escalating their confrontations with China, Harvard and the supreme court. 

Think of it – they must be telling themselves and their boss – what prizes! If they defeat China, they have brought the world’s other economic powerhouse to its knees!

If they defeat Harvard University, they have been victorious over the world’s intellectual powerhouse!

If they defeat the supreme court, they have conquered the entire US government!

Win these power battles and no one will ever again doubt the power and resolve of the Trump regime!

Hopefully, Trump is smarter than this. He knows these three institutions will not back down. They are rich and powerful enough to defy Trump’s escalating threats and demands. They cannot and will not cower.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/17/trump-china-harvard-supreme-court

[Spartan Girl]

It was good to hear some actual good news, even if it was small.

Still…

I was listening to “Gethsemane” from Jesus Christ Superstar and “Then I was inspired/Now I’m sad and tired” hit so damn hard because that’s how I truly feel. I’m so angry and disgusted at all the people that turned their noses up at Biden and Harris, ignored our constant pleas and warnings, and threw us back into this cesspool. I can’t get inspired by all the boycotts and protests, it just seems so performative to me now. It’s almost like the terminally online lefter-than-thous wanted it to happen just to fulfill their underdog fantasies, then act offended when I don’t have any energy left to muster up any scrap of pity when the leopards eat their faces.

Look, I don’t want to give up hope and wallow in bitterness, but there really does feel like something is broken inside of me in a way that wasn’t back after 2016. Maybe it was because I thought people learned their lesson, only to be let down again. And I don’t think I’m ever going to be over that, no matter what happens.

[tres bien]

Now would be a good time for Senator Murkowski and her colleagues who are afraid to speak out to speak out

It’s not ok for them to silently sit by while Jr has attacked autistic people this week basically calling them worthless and destroying families 

He knows nothing about science or medicine yet you put him there and he’s made a mess and joke out of HHS

Surely you and you colleagues have constituents that will be affected by his horrible misdirected actions that are only based on wild conspiracy theories 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 18 by tres bien

[tearknee]

37 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

It was good to hear some actual good news, even if it was small.

Still…

I was listening to “Gethsemane” from Jesus Christ Superstar and “Then I was inspired/Now I’m sad and tired” hit so damn hard because that’s how I truly feel. I’m so angry and disgusted at all the people that turned their noses up at Biden and Harris, ignored our constant pleas and warnings, and threw us back into this cesspool. I can’t get inspired by all the boycotts and protests, it just seems so performative to me now. It’s almost like the terminally online lefter-than-thous wanted it to happen just to fulfill their underdog fantasies, then act offended when I don’t have any energy left to muster up any scrap of pity when the leopards eat their faces.

Look, I don’t want to give up hope and wallow in bitterness, but there really does feel like something is broken inside of me in a way that wasn’t back after 2016. Maybe it was because I thought people learned their lesson, only to be let down again. And I don’t think I’m ever going to be over that, no matter what happens.

Here is a conversation I had with a friend, discussing my piece pointing out the I-P reality (with the Peel commission in 1937, the Arabs would have got 80% of the land, under the 1947 Partition Plan they would have got 50% and etc.):

Me: It's striking how much impact one person can have on the debate. My most recent piece has been shared hundreds of times.

Friend: Pity it is just colonial propaganda

Me: Which factual statements made in that piece do you dispute?

Friend: As you know interpretation of history is not just about what facts you include

Me: So, you don't dispute any of the factual statements. That being so, you cannot avoid the conclusion I came to.

Friend: I am not going to engage in a response to any of your piece because I have other more productive obligations

Me: Yes, that is always how these discussions end.

I have had variants of this conversation many times over the years, about various subjects, but most commonly about Israel-Palestine. The conversation usually begins with a rhetorical statement ("Israel is an apartheid state" or "Israel commits genocide"). I respond by setting out the facts of the issue in the most dispassionate way I can. The other person never engages with these facts but responds with more rhetorical statements. When I insist on focusing on the facts, I get accused of being a propagandist or some other ad hominem term. Finally, the other person says, "I'm not going to engage with you on this anymore."

I am told by people who study human behavior that this is a very common pattern of conversation. I don't have any climate denialists among my friends, so I don't often have arguments on that subject, but I'm told such arguments usually follow this pattern. When a climate denialist is presented with facts that prove their arguments to be false, they simply disengage and walk away. They have too much emotional investment in their false beliefs to allow them to be challenged.

All of this makes me quite pessimistic about our future. We are facing several very grave crises, crises entirely of our own making. The solutions to these crises are easy to describe, although certainly not easy to implement. But most people most of the time simply do not want to hear the truth about any of these matters.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I agree it's not always a migrant committing crime. What I'm saying is that I never see anyone here (or Dems in general) empathize with ANY victim of migrant crime. When I spoke of Laken Riley a while back, I don't recall one person expressing sympathy for the family. 

We could say the same about you in reverse. You haven't shown sympathy for anyone but white victims of crime. Most people in this thread are complaining about what Trump and the Republicans are doing wrong, not expressing every emotion they have. Do you really think anyone here would be unsympathetic to any victim of crime whether or not they were white or it was committed by an immigrant? I have not assumed that. But the right wing media seems to want its base to think that. They keep trying to paint the Dems. as only caring about minorities. That's not true AT ALL. The Dems. don't have an us vs. them mentality at all. They want to see social justice done, not see some people win and others fail. But that's exactly what Trump and MAGA are all about. They want white natives to win and minorities, especially minority immigrants to lose.

If Liberals have been somewhat short-sighted about how best to achieve equality between the races, that's one thing, but trying to say that they only care about minorities, women and LGBTQ at the expense of white men is just ludicrous and misinformed. Think about it. Why would I want my white husband to fail so that minorities can succeed? I don't think any Dems. want that.

I do agree that some of the present methods are not working so well and are alienating people. Clearly some changes need to be made, but that's the issue. If some white people are alienated at least address it head on, don't insist that you get it all your way without meeting people in the middle. But MAGA wants poor minorities and immigrants to fail and whites to win. And I would find it hard to believe any argument to refute THAT. It's pretty obvious what they want and Trump is doing everything possible to make it happen. All this BS about wanting opportunities to be equal regardless of race and origin is a lie to fool decent people like you into thinking they want racial equality. These people are racists pure and simple. They are not looking for any kind of equality. They are not cutting programs and stripping away money to make things fairer for everyone. That's just the false pretense they're operating under to make it better for whites at the expense of POC. I just wish more Republicans would realize that, but they have them so wrapped around their fingers they either don't see it or see it and don't care.

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

The only thing "white people" are against is the criminal migrants (who came here illegally, btw) with proven records to be punished for their crimes, just like any other criminal. So, no, it's not racism. Crime has no color.

I say it is motivated by racism. See above.

And guess what? NO Democrats I know support criminal migrants from being allowed to stay here despite what the right wing media wants you to think. What we ARE against are Gestapo like measures being taken to address the issue by Trump. I think most Democrats will admit that some changes need to be made to prevent and correct the situation, but you have to admit that what Trump is making happen is too heavy handed, denying people basic human rights, and including innocent people like Garcia, who they admit was deported by mistake. I don't care what he supposedly did, none of that has been proven, but the fact that Trump admitted that he was deported by mistake is the whole story as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

[Annber03]

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I'm sorry if your family is being harassed for hanging pictures (of your choice) on the walls. That's all I was talking about.

I was referring to the fact they'd kick us out if we allowed people to run rampant through the apartment and destroy the place and threaten the lives of anyone who lived here. 

You know, like Trump and his supporters did on January 6th. with the Capitol building. Aka, the very reason he shouldn't be allowed to be back in the White House, period, and the very reason he shouldn't get to have any say in how the place looks or is decorated or anything of that sort. If he can't respect the office, the White House, or any other related building, he shouldn't get to have a say in anything that goes on there. 

Period. End of story. 

[tearknee]

BG147, the French still deny their complicity in the Holocaust through Vichy and French people themselves. Petain got cheering crowds in a visit to Paris in early 1944. 

 

[Dimity]

The mods have been very forgiving about what is germane to this thread and what is off topic but basically this thread is about our "feelings" about the election and what Trump and his administration is doing. That's why, @Soapy Goddess we aren't talking about the victims of any crime unless it pertains to the victims  of the crimes being committed by your fascist government.   

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

According to his records there were several warrants out for his arrest. He also seriously beat his wife who had two restraining orders against him. And while that might not be your definition of migrant crime, as a member of MS-13, he's not exactly an angel. Plus, he DID enter the U.S. illegally, which is still a crime, last time I checked.

First of all, it may be a crime to come here illegally but it's only a civil offense, not a criminal one and just being here undocumented is not a crime in any sense. Secondly, there is zero evidence anyone can produce to substantiate Garcia as a member of MS-13 and any allegations made toward him are also not proven either. So all that is irrelevant as it stands right now. Of course Trump wants Republicans to think it's OK and perfectly legal and fine to treat undocumenteds like criminals who deserve deportation or incarceration but that's not what the law says.

Again, few Democrats will argue that our immigration system is working right and doesn't need any reform. Most of us agree that it does need to change and that Biden didn't address it well enough. Very few Democrats and Liberals are for "open borders", whatever that means to Republicans. But Trump's "solution" violates basic human rights and due process among other things. We might agree on the problem but not on the solution here. As usual, Trump takes out a chainsaw when a scalpel would be more appropriate. But it's all grandstanding to make his base think he's righting wrongs with grand gestures that needed to be done. But none of what he's doing needed to be done, not in that way. He's just getting back at Liberals as usual and impressing his base with this crap, all while hurting innocent people in the process. And that's what he is doing 24/7 these days. I think Republicans should WAKE UP.

4 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I weep for ANYONE who is the victim of crime. Contrary to popular belief, I don't discriminate on who I empathize and sympathize with. As the victim of a crime myself (by a white man), my heart goes out to anyone suffering.

Well then you should understand how you have not seen the entire story about how Democrats feel about white victims either. And like I've already said, Trump only cares about white victims of crimes when perpetrated by minorities, especially minority immigrants, and hitching your horse to his wagon makes you complicit in that as far as I'm concerned. Again, I think fair minded Republicans need to wake up to this. He is duping you into thinking he's only looking out for the interests of citizens when in fact he's primarily motivated by racism, pure and simple.

[tearknee]

Something like the Trump government is what happens when you fail to keep the Dunning-Kruger effect in check

[Yeah No]

Ugh, yesterday my husband and I met with the contractor that will be doing some work on our house. At some point we started talking about the roller coaster stock market and how our IRAs and 401Ks have seen losses as a result of the tariffs. I figured the contractor might be a Trump supporter so I stayed mum about that. He admitted that so far he's lost $40,000 from his retirement account but said, "I guess we have to give it some time to let Trump's tariffs do their job. I think the markets are going to rebound in a big way". He didn't look too convinced, but was still supporting Trump on the tariffs. My husband and I put on our poker faces and didn't touch that comment. Just ugh.

I realize that most contractors around here are likely Trumpers, but my neighbors on either side are also Trump supporters. Meanwhile I live in a very blue town and state. All of these are lovely, not hateful, racist MAGA people. I just think that like many Republicans they're still drinking the Kool Aid and not waking up to what's really happening. I just don't get such blind loyalty, but I think that's one big reason we are where we are right now. In my experience Democrats are much more likely to stand on principle and not make excuses for other Democrats while Republicans will twist their logic into pretzels and engage in denial to defend whatever other Republicans do no matter how vile or repugnant.

Edited April 18 by Yeah No
Punctuation again.

[bluegirl147]

39 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I just think that like many Republicans they're still drinking the Kool Aid and not waking up to what's really happening. I just don't get such blind loyalty, but I think that's one big reason we are where we are right now.

I think for some of them it's they don't want to admit they were wrong. For others I think they think in for a penny in for a pound. 

39 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

In my experience Democrats are much more likely to stand on principle and not make excuses for other Democrats while Republicans will twist their logic into pretzels and engage in denial to defend whatever other Republicans do no matter how vile or repugnant.

Absolutely. I have a dealbreakers. With Trump supporters I think he was right. He could shoot someone on 5th Ave. and he wouldn't lose a vote.

Edited April 18 by bluegirl147

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

I agree it's not always a migrant committing crime. What I'm saying is that I never see anyone here (or Dems in general) empathize with ANY victim of migrant crime. When I spoke of Laken Riley a while back, I don't recall one person expressing sympathy for the family. 

The only thing "white people" are against is the criminal migrants (who came here illegally, btw) with proven records to be punished for their crimes, just like any other criminal. So, no, it's not racism. Crime has no color.

 

What you are missing is that immigration is what keeps America great. They are an inspiration. They aspire to make the future. And that is the point of this country. 

it seems pretty obvious a lot of the people feel that immigrants are taking things from them or that they don’t want to pay taxes to support them. And it does change our culture. It will change the lives of our children, your children. 

i posted this before:

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime

The American Immigration Council compared crime data to demographic data from 1980 to 2022, the most recent data available. The data showed that as the immigrant share of the population grew, the crime rate declined. In 1980, immigrants made up 6.2 percent of the U.S. population, and the total crime rate was 5,900 crimes per 100,000 people. By 2022, the share of immigrants had more than doubled, to 13.9 percent, while the total crime rate had dropped by 60.4 percent, to 2,335 crimes per 100,000 people. Specifically, the violent crime rate fell by 34.5 percent and the property crime rate fell by 63.3 percent.

your world is safer as the immigrant population has grown in this country. So racism seems like a fair answer  lets get rid of immigrants so we are more white, more crime is not a problem  

 

[Cementhead]

23 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I just think that like many Republicans they're still drinking the Kool Aid and not waking up to what's really happening. I just don't get such blind loyalty,

I am trying to find a quote I heard recently that nails this but in case I can't find it, the gist of it is that Trump supporters would rather go down with the ship than admit that that they were wrong because if they admit that they were wrong, they have to face the fact that they were conned and that they fell for the grift. 

[Cementhead]

From my husband's favourite book.  Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind:

“People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.”

Long story short, this basically:

THIS is what Trump has tapped into.  He is masterful at it.

[Affogato]

9 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

I am trying to find a quote I heard recently that nails this but in case I can't find it, the gist of it is that Trump supporters would rather go down with the ship than admit that that they were wrong because if they admit that they were wrong, they have to face the fact that they were conned and that they fell for the grift. 

Because early religious training taught them that blind faith is a virtue?

[fastiller]

37 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

. I just think that like many Republicans they're still drinking the Kool Aid and not waking up to what's really happening. I just don't get such blind loyalty, but I think that's one big reason we are where we are right now. In my experience Democrats are much more likely to stand on principle and not make excuses for other Democrats while Republicans will twist their logic into pretzels and engage in denial to defend whatever other Republicans do no matter how vile or repugnant.

 

8 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

I am trying to find a quote I heard recently that nails this but in case I can't find it, the gist of it is that Trump supporters would rather go down with the ship than admit that that they were wrong because if they admit that they were wrong, they have to face the fact that they were conned and that they fell for the grift. 

It's the sunk cost fallacy.

 

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Because early religious training taught them that blind faith is a virtue?

I always remember someone asked the guy who built the Noah's Ark theme park what could convince him he was wrong. His answer?  Nothing.  Same question was asked to Bill Nye.  His answer?  Evidence.  Trump's most ardent supporters do seem to see him as some sort of messiah and they will believe whatever he tells them even as they are going broke, losing health care and not knowing a tornado is coming straight towards their house.

 

[JustHereForFood]

23 hours ago, Dimity said:

I remember saying this back during the pandemic and it's even more true now - a far too large segment of the population, even as the bombs are falling, would be screaming "you expect ME to close my curtains?  No one tells ME what to do."

Yes, that is a good point how it resembles the mentality during the height of the pandemic. Some people refused to do the bare minimum to help the whole population achieve collective immunity faster or at least keep the virus under control, because it would mildly inconvenience them. I am a huge supporter of individualism and sticking up for oneself first, but there is a line where we have to come together to defeat a threat because we can't do it on our own as individuals.

Also, some people probably became used to the statistics of how many people died each day during the pandemic, so the death of others who are strangers to them is also something abstract, almost like a movie or something that is not a part of their world.

 

5 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

The Biden administration allowed this to happen with their open border policy. Same as they did with being soft on crime.

Didn't the Biden administration prepare a border bill that would have helped getting illegal immigration under control? Didn't the GOP refuse to vote for it? I'm pretty sure it has been mentioned here several times.

Sounds like they are not really that concerned about illegal immigration unless they want to use it for their campaign. Too bad people still fall for such tactics.

 

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

It was good to hear some actual good news, even if it was small.

Still…

I was listening to “Gethsemane” from Jesus Christ Superstar and “Then I was inspired/Now I’m sad and tired” hit so damn hard because that’s how I truly feel. I’m so angry and disgusted at all the people that turned their noses up at Biden and Harris, ignored our constant pleas and warnings, and threw us back into this cesspool. I can’t get inspired by all the boycotts and protests, it just seems so performative to me now. It’s almost like the terminally online lefter-than-thous wanted it to happen just to fulfill their underdog fantasies, then act offended when I don’t have any energy left to muster up any scrap of pity when the leopards eat their faces.

Look, I don’t want to give up hope and wallow in bitterness, but there really does feel like something is broken inside of me in a way that wasn’t back after 2016. Maybe it was because I thought people learned their lesson, only to be let down again. And I don’t think I’m ever going to be over that, no matter what happens.

I get it. We have a terrible political situation in my country too and what probably angers me the most in not the politicians themselves, but the people who voted for them despite their hateful rhetoric (or probably because of it). I'm sure some of the politicians don't even believe what they say, they just say whatever they think will work for their base. But the people in turn are emboldened by what they hear from their "leaders", so they double down on their hateful ideology. It's a vicious cycle and I don't know anymore how to break it. In my case, going to protests is one of the few things that keeps me sane, because at least there I am surrounded by people who believe the same things I do and who are not resigned or indifferent. 

 

1 hour ago, tearknee said:

I am told by people who study human behavior that this is a very common pattern of conversation. I don't have any climate denialists among my friends, so I don't often have arguments on that subject, but I'm told such arguments usually follow this pattern. When a climate denialist is presented with facts that prove their arguments to be false, they simply disengage and walk away. They have too much emotional investment in their false beliefs to allow them to be challenged.
 

Many people decide based on feelings and not facts. I am not saying we should be the other extreme and only follow facts and rationality and don't trust our feelings at all - I believe like in most cases, there should be a balance between the rational and the emotional. But I wish there was more trust in the facts that there is at the moment.

[tearknee]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I always remember someone asked the guy who built the Noah's Ark theme park what could convince him he was wrong. His answer?  Nothing.  Same question was asked to Bill Nye.  His answer?  Evidence.  Trump's most ardent supporters do seem to see him as some sort of messiah and they will believe whatever he tells them even as they are going broke, losing health care and not knowing a tornado is coming straight towards their house.

 

That applies to the left too - e.g. no one seems willing to point out to Mehreen Faruqi that someone who was born and grew up in the former West Pakistan is the last person to be credible when lecturing people about 'apartheid regimes' and 'oppressing an indigenous majority' (Bengalis).

 

[Yeah No]

32 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I think for some of them it's they don't want to admit they were wrong. For others I think they think in for a penny in for a pound. 

The look on this contractor's faced told me he wasn't quite so sure it was going to work but he was still going to support Trump for now. But what would it take for him to turn around? Unfortunately probably a lot more than losing $40,000....

23 minutes ago, Cementhead said:

I am trying to find a quote I heard recently that nails this but in case I can't find it, the gist of it is that Trump supporters would rather go down with the ship than admit that that they were wrong because if they admit that they were wrong, they have to face the fact that they were conned and that they fell for the grift. 

This sounds a lot like something I've said in this thread, although I'm sure that other great minds have thought alike on this and it's not unique to me!

15 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Because early religious training taught them that blind faith is a virtue?

That's interesting and I've theorized here that the religious right was ripe for being taken in by Trump because of blind faith. 

I was thankfully brought up in a Christian denomination that encouraged me to question my faith, but the Christian right can be rather cultish to begin with so the cult of Trump coming about is no shock or surprise. They act about him the way they act about their corrupt, lying, charlatan preachers, who take their money under false pretenses to help the ministry but instead line their own pockets (sounds familiar, right?). It makes people like me sick to my stomach given that my denomination is very opposed to any of that!