Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Makai]

2 hours ago, kittykat said:

Kamala had to make a calculated guess on who to court.  She had two paths, court the far left Bernie holdouts at the risk of alienating center right convert voters, or court the centrists and alienate the far left because she was never going to win both.  She chose the latter, and unfortunately it was the wrong choice.  I wish she had gone with reaching out to the younger left voters.  Nothing radical in wanting universal healthcare and affordable education.

I’m curious where the majority of posters get their political coverage because reading the last few pages makes me feel like I watched a completely different campaign. Kamala courted the crap out of younger left voters. I am on liberal TikTok and she went hard after that demo. Her social media team was amazing. The problem is that you can’t reach out to someone who doesn’t want to be reached. The majority of potential young voters operate in highly curated social media circles. 

[partofme]

54 minutes ago, Dimity said:

So once again one rule for the dems and another for the republicans.  And I don't know if that will ever change

No this will never change.  The saying is “IOKIYAR”(It’s okay if you’re a Republican)

 

54 minutes ago, Dimity said:

So once again one rule for the dems and another for the republicans.  And I don't know if that will ever change

No this will never change.  The saying is “IOKIYAR”(It’s okay if you’re a Republican)

 

[PRgal]

Question for those who have family members who speak an language other than English:  How well did non-English language media do its job to combat mis/disinformation about respective parties/platforms?  How were each candidate presented?  This is especially the case for those who have family living in more isolated/segregated areas where the can spend weeks not having to speak ANY English.  

[JustHereForFood]

2 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I disagree with you here. 

First he never should have run in the primaries.  It was obvious he could not do another 4 years. 

Second when he did step aside harris was a bad choice.  Even as vp she had many gaffer and mis steps before she was nominated. Plus she made an easy target for criticism of the current economy and as a 'California liberal'   back before the was chosen shen Biden ended his campaign I never thought she'd win

 

I voted for her without hesitation. But she was a poor choice and they botched the whole process

Yes she was 'next in line' as VP. That was the same logic for Hillary in 2016.  It failed too. 

You pick the best candidate. Not just someone who 'deserves' it based on positioning.  

What I don't understand is why did they wait for the last possible moment before deciding he's not going to run and why did they not have a plan B. Everybody knew how old he is and how it would be used against him during the campaign. Why not plan for somebody to run instead since the beginning?

[Enigma X]

I really hope Democrats right now are thinking seriously about their strategy for Nov. 3, 2026. They should not be waiting for tomorrow to do this.

[heatherchandler]

5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Like I said before, why is it always on the Democrats to learn how to reach across the aisle and be inclusive, to mind their language lest they alienate potential voters? Why doesn't the right ever get that lecture? 

I don’t agree.  I never see Republicans hating democrats, but I see a lot of anger toward Trump voters.  People saying that if family or friends voted for him, that they no longer want to associate with them.  

[nokat]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Question for those who have family members who speak an language other than English:  How well did non-English language media do its job to combat mis/disinformation about respective parties/platforms?  How were each candidate presented?  This is especially the case for those who have family living in more isolated/segregated areas where the can spend weeks not having to speak ANY English.  

I feel like the anti-immigrant  stuff went past people, like we aren't immigrants. Like we don't want anyone else coming in.

3 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t agree.  I never see Republicans hating democrats, but I see a lot of anger toward Trump voters.  People saying that if family or friends voted for him, that they no longer want to associate with them.  

Are you serious now? The hatred that is alive and well is heading our way.

[Blergh]

I'm trying my best to stay strong and positive against the odds for the sake of future generations  (and to keep Mama in as good a state as can be) but I know that things are  going to be challenging in ways we can't anticipate.

 

 BTW,where I can apply for a transfer to 1979?

[Dimity]

25 minutes ago, Makai said:

I’m curious where the majority of posters get their political coverage because reading the last few pages makes me feel like I watched a completely different campaign. Kamala courted the crap out of younger left voters. I am on liberal TikTok and she went hard after that demo. Her social media team was amazing. The problem is that you can’t reach out to someone who doesn’t want to be reached. The majority of potential young voters operate in highly curated social media circles. 

I was wondering this as well.  Several posts have touched on the idea that the Harris campaign didn't focus on the economy but I am still wading through shows on my PVR that predate the election and most of the commercials I am seeing are talking about the economy, grocery prices, no tax cuts for billionaires kind of thing.  So, yes, they were talking economy - the problem is not enough people were listening.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, remember how people were thinking, after January 6th, "Well, surely the GOP is going to have to pivot from Trump now, he's radioactive waste."

And yet they didn't. And nobody ever bothered to ask them why they didn't want to go with someone else, why they kept insisting on hitching their wagon to a guy who, back in 2018 and 2020, was costing their party votes, and who, again, tried to violently overthrow a democratic election. 

Nope, instead the media just acted like it was totally normal that this guy who attempted a coup could run again, and obsessed over Biden's age and gaffes while shrugging off Trump's 'cause, "That's just Trump for ya!" 

No scrutiny for the Republicans and their choices. None. Not even when they do lose, like they did in 2020. But boy, people will happily go on at length with all the "coulda, shoulda, woulda"s for the Democrats. 

There is always in-fighting with the Democrats, and the republicans just get behind their candidate. I hate the in-fighting. 

[nokat]

She put out policies.  He had the vague "make America great again." You mean stop women from voting, and having decisions over their own bodies.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, remember how people were thinking, after January 6th, "Well, surely the GOP is going to have to pivot from Trump now, he's radioactive waste."

And yet they didn't. And nobody ever bothered to ask them why they didn't want to go with someone else, why they kept insisting on hitching their wagon to a guy who, back in 2018 and 2020, was costing their party votes, and who, again, tried to violently overthrow a democratic election. 

Nope, instead the media just acted like it was totally normal that this guy who attempted a coup could run again, and obsessed over Biden's age and gaffes while shrugging off Trump's 'cause, "That's just Trump for ya!" 

No scrutiny for the Republicans and their choices. None. Not even when they do lose, like they did in 2020. But boy, people will happily go on at length with all the "coulda, shoulda, woulda"s for the Democrats. 

The media just sanewashed everything about him.

45 minutes ago, Makai said:

I’m curious where the majority of posters get their political coverage because reading the last few pages makes me feel like I watched a completely different campaign. Kamala courted the crap out of younger left voters. I am on liberal TikTok and she went hard after that demo. Her social media team was amazing. The problem is that you can’t reach out to someone who doesn’t want to be reached. The majority of potential young voters operate in highly curated social media circles. 

I'm not on tiktok. I didn't say that she was terrible, but for a while there, I felt like I was being asked to vote for a sane Republican. I'm not blaming her. I know she was expected to unify (unlike him). 

27 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t agree.  I never see Republicans hating democrats, but I see a lot of anger toward Trump voters.  People saying that if family or friends voted for him, that they no longer want to associate with them.  

You haven't??

[Is Everyone Gone]

47 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t agree.  I never see Republicans hating democrats, but I see a lot of anger toward Trump voters.  People saying that if family or friends voted for him, that they no longer want to associate with them.  

Hard disagree here. I got into a huge online fight with someone who said "Tom Hanks is a known pedophile." When I said "before you accuse someone of being a pedophile, you need receipts" the person responded "Democrat. Hollywood. Need I say more?"

[peacheslatour]

17 minutes ago, nokat said:

She put out policies.  He had the vague "make America great again." You mean stop women from voting, and having decisions over their own bodies.

His policies will be on our doorsteps on day one.

 

[Anela]

I also remember "fuck your feelings" after he won, eight years ago.

But I've received a lot of hate from republicans, and seen a lot, too.

[bluegirl147]

43 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t agree.  I never see Republicans hating democrats, but I see a lot of anger toward Trump voters.  People saying that if family or friends voted for him, that they no longer want to associate with them.  

Trump demonized Democrats.  Constantly.  We heard sheriffs and other elected officials say they knew where Democrats lived.  Pretty much threatening them not to vote for Kamala.  

2 minutes ago, Anela said:

I also remember "fuck your feelings" after he won, eight years ago.

But I've received a lot of hate from republicans, and seen a lot, too.

Also hearing people call me a libtard and that liberalism is a mental illness.

[Anela]

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

Trump demonized Democrats.  Constantly.  We heard sheriffs and other elected officials say they knew where Democrats lived.  Pretty much threatening them not to vote for Kamala.  

He called us "the enemy within" just a couple of weeks ago. He said that he might have a little fun with Michelle Obama. 

[Bastet]

24 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

His policies will be on our doorsteps on day one.

You gotta love how visits to the Wikipedia page on Project 2025 went through the roof yesterday.  Yeah, nothing like waiting to look up what something is until after you've voted to implement it.

Edited November 8 by Bastet

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

I don’t agree.  I never see Republicans hating democrats, but I see a lot of anger toward Trump voters.  People saying that if family or friends voted for him, that they no longer want to associate with them.  

I have to assume you’re not on social media a lot or paid attention to 45’s entire campaign. Like others mentioned, some of them call the left Libtards. We’ve been called fascists, communists, evil, etc. His entire campaign was one long grievance. He called anyone who disagreed with him an enemy that he wanted to sic the military on. 

[Anela]

None of it should have been normalized, but it was. He shouldn't have been allowed to run again, after January 6th, either. 

I said before: she outshone him in every way. She should have won, easily.

I don't know if I can talk about this anymore. There were people googling, wondering if and when Joe Biden dropped out of the race. They were that checked out of it all.

Today, I've seen reports of Nick Fuentes telling a woman, "Your body, my choice." (wait, telling *all* of us: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/trump-misogyny-tiktok-reproductive-rights-us-election-b2643207.html )

Other men, and boys, have followed suit. Saying that women won't get to just say no (there has been talk of women just not having sex). they are assuming that consent will not be required, in two months.

Yesterday, they admitted what was always obvious: that Project 2025, is their playbook. they panicked when information about it was finally flooding the internet, during the Summer, and tried to distance themselves from it, but now, they can laugh at us, and admit that's exactly what they plan for the country. 

I'm not getting involved in talk of "why she lost" because it was against *him*. 

Edited November 8 by Anela

[Makai]

56 minutes ago, Bastet said:

You gotta love how visits to the Wikipedia page on Project 2025 went through the roof yesterday.  Yeah, nothing like waiting to look up what something is until after you've voted to implement it.

 

22 minutes ago, Anela said:

Today, I've seen reports of Nick Fuentes telling a woman, "Your body, my choice." (wait, telling *all* of us: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/trump-misogyny-tiktok-reproductive-rights-us-election-b2643207.html )

Other men, and boys, have followed suit. Saying that women won't get to just say no (there has been talk of women just not having sex). they are assuming that consent will not be required, in two months.

 

[heatherchandler]

1 hour ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Hard disagree here. I got into a huge online fight with someone who said "Tom Hanks is a known pedophile." When I said "before you accuse someone of being a pedophile, you need receipts" the person responded "Democrat. Hollywood. Need I say more?"

Yes people call names and some say crazy things like that, usually about celebrities.  But I’m talking about real life families being torn apart because of Trump, and saying that if someone votes for him they are evil.  
 

1 hour ago, Anela said:

The media just sanewashed everything about him.

I'm not on tiktok. I didn't say that she was terrible, but for a while there, I felt like I was being asked to vote for a sane Republican. I'm not blaming her. I know she was expected to unify (unlike him). 

You haven't??

No, I’m not talking about online name calling nonsense.  Or even podcasters.  I’m talking about real life brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, friend, neighbors, etc saying that if so and so votes for Trump they will no longer consider them family or friend.  Not showing up to Thanksgiving.  Because they are evil and horrible.  
 

But I never saw republicans say the same thing, like if someone votes for Harris, they may get called libtard or socialist but no one says, I’m cutting them out of my life.  

Some democrats feel that republicans are evil fascists.  But most republicans I know are just people who are doing their best.

I’m not  officially dem or repub so I’ve seen it all and heard it all.  And I actually see both sides, which I think is rare.  I watch cnn, msnbc and Fox.  

 

56 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I have to assume you’re not on social media a lot or paid attention to 45’s entire campaign. Like others mentioned, some of them call the left Libtards. We’ve been called fascists, communists, evil, etc. His entire campaign was one long grievance. He called anyone who disagreed with him an enemy that he wanted to sic the military on. 

Social media is a cesspool of constant name calling.  I think it’s mostly bots, and they are trolling to get engagement- people fighting and clicking.  I don’t consider social media real life.  
 

Trump said he would sic the military on democrats?  I can’t imagine that’s true.

Also, as someone that watches all news, please stop spreading the project 2025 nonsense as fact.  Trump didn’t even know what it was.  It’s not legitimate.  The only people talking about it are democrats, as a scare tactic.

Social media and legitimate media (news) is tearing the country apart.  

Edited November 8 by heatherchandler

[Anela]

8 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Yes people call names and some say crazy things like that, usually about celebrities.  But I’m talking about real life families being torn apart because of Trump, and saying that if someone votes for him they are evil.  
 

No, I’m not talking about online name calling nonsense.  Or even podcasters.  I’m talking about real life brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, friend, neighbors, etc saying that if so and so votes for Trump they will no longer consider them family or friend.  Not showing up to Thanksgiving.  Because they are evil and horrible.  
 

But I never saw republicans say the same thing, like if someone votes for Harris, they may get called libtard or socialist but no one says, I’m cutting them out of my life.  

Some democrats feel that republicans are evil fascists.  But most republicans I know are just people who are doing their best.

I’m not  officially dem or repub so I’ve seen it all and heard it all.  And I actually see both sides, which I think is rare.  I watch cnn, msnbc and Fox.  

 

Social media is a cesspool of constant name calling.  I think it’s mostly bots, and they are trolling to get engagement- people fighting and clicking.  I don’t consider social media real life.  
 

Trump said he would sic the military on democrats?  I can’t imagine that’s true.

Also, as someone that watches all news, please stop spreading the project 2025 nonsense as fact.  Trump didn’t even know what it was.  It’s not legitimate.  The only people talking about it are democrats, as a scare tactic.

Social media and legitimate media (news) is tearing the country apart.  

 

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-enemies-from-within-5c4a34776469a55e71d3ba4d4e68cf62

Quote

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) — Donald Trump’s allies have tried in vain to persuade him to stop venting his rage against “enemies from within” in the campaign’s waning days. But he keeps going.

In his rallies and interviews, the former president is increasingly fixated on the Americans he believes have wronged or betrayed him. They are worse, he says, than foreign adversaries of the United States. And he’s made plain his desire to use the power of the federal government, including the military, to go after them.

“The crazy lunatics that we have — the fascists, the Marxists, the communists, the people that we have that are actually running the country,” Trump said this month at a rally in Wisconsin. “Those people are more dangerous — the enemy from within — than Russia and China and other people.”

When given the opportunity to hedge, he’s doubled down.

Howard Kurtz of Fox News told Trump in an interview last weekend that “enemies from within” is “a pretty ominous phrase, if you’re talking about other Americans.”

“I think it’s accurate,” Trump responded.

The threat to settle personal grievances from the Oval Office has so alarmed some of Trump’s former senior aides that they’ve labeled him a fascist. Vice President Kamala Harris, Trump’s Democratic rival, agreed that authoritarian, ultranationalist ideology describes Trump.

“It’s either Donald Trump in there stewing over his enemies list, or me, working for you, checking off my to-do list,” Harris said Thursday in Georgia.

Trump’s critics warn that the guardrails that kept him in check — aides and government officials who ignored potentially illegal orders or steered him away from problematic ideas — won’t be there in a second term.

Some of Trump’s supporters says his talk of vengeance is either justified or hyperbole.

“We already know what kind of president he will be because he already served,” 57-year-old Jennifer Warnke of St. Johns, Arizona, said Thursday before a Trump rally in the Phoenix area. Trump’s quip that he would be a dictator only “for day one” was a joke meant to emphasize his commitment to border security, she said.

Trump generally defines his enemies nebulously: The radical left, communists, the deep state or simply “they.” But sometimes he names them directly. Here’s a look at some of the Americans Trump has gone after in recent weeks:

You can visit the link, if you want to see who he's named directly. 

[Annber03]

45 minutes ago, Anela said:

Today, I've seen reports of Nick Fuentes telling a woman, "Your body, my choice." (wait, telling *all* of us: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/trump-misogyny-tiktok-reproductive-rights-us-election-b2643207.html )

Other men, and boys, have followed suit. Saying that women won't get to just say no (there has been talk of women just not having sex). they are assuming that consent will not be required, in two months.

Well. That's....horrifying. 

I hope every one of those assholes gets kicked in the nuts by every woman they ever meet. Hard. 

[heatherchandler]

40 minutes ago, Anela said:

Today, I've seen reports of Nick Fuentes telling a woman, "Your body, my choice."

Nick Fuentes is a psychopath nazi.  He hates Trump.  He does not represent republicans.

Thats like saying Valerie Solanas represents feminists.

[Anela]

3 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Nick Fuentes is a psychopath nazi.  He hates Trump.  He does not represent republicans.

Thats like saying Valerie Solanas represents feminists.

Trump had dinner with him, two years ago.

[Makai]

19 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Trump said he would sic the military on democrats?  I can’t imagine that’s true.

 

[heatherchandler]

8 minutes ago, Anela said:

Trump had dinner with him, two years ago.

Kanye brought him, unbeknownst to Trump.  Trump has distanced himself from him.

I do not like Trump, I don’t want to defend him!  But he’s not buddies with Nick Fuentes.  
 

This is the problem with the media.  Why do you think they are reporting what Nick Fuentes says?  He’s a lunatic, no one should care what he says or tweets.  But the media reports it as if it is news, and it gets people stirred up.  Don’t fall for their obvious bait-click.

[Yeah No]

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

But this is what I meant with my earlier post. Does the Democrats' messaging even matter at this point when shit like this is what wins elections? They could run on making voters "feel good" all they want and they could still lose to someone who says vile things about women and minorities, because that candidate is just "telling it like it is" and they're "relatable". 

I think part of what Trumpians hate are politicians in general. Trump isn't a politician. OK he's technically one now but he never served in government and doesn't act anything like a typical politician. Trump's base thinks politicians are liars and BS artists only looking to serve a select few whom they somehow think will bring them more votes and more power. They don't think the politicians, especially Democratic ones are looking out for them. So they find it refreshing that he cuts through the BS, insults them, says horrible things about the people they think the Dem. politicians put above them, and even better, gets away with it. They're getting their "justice" vicariously through him being the "bad boy" brat in the White House. 

7 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Like I said before, why is it always on the Democrats to learn how to reach across the aisle and be inclusive, to mind their language lest they alienate potential voters? Why doesn't the right ever get that lecture? 

Because today's Trumpian Republicans don't profess to act ethically, with decency and respect for everyone, even their political opposition. It is part of The Democrats' way of being, but Republicans (at least today's Trumpian Republicans) are only supportive of their own and for the most part (unless there's some ulterior motive) won't work for the common good by reaching across the aisle. 

The Democrats' ethical standards put them at a disadvantage because doing the right thing is often not what will win you the devotion of the people or give you the most advantage toward winning elections. Against the now non-ethical Republicans, the Dems. don't stand a chance. And this election was a prime example of that playing out. Unfortunately defeating someone like Trump might require bending those ethical standards, but I understand why the Dems. resist it. Unfortunately we have too many people now that admire the bad boy without ethical standards. They kind of see him like a Robin Hood in a way. He steals from the "elites" and he has them hoodwinked into thinking he's going to give all their "riches" to THEM. So they think it's justified and that's how they rationalize that it's "ethical". But they're just a bunch of suckers if they believe a charlatan like that is doing any of this for anyone but himself. 

Edited November 8 by Yeah No

[heatherchandler]

8 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Because today's Trumpian Republicans don't profess to act ethically, with decency and respect for everyone, even their political opposition. It is part of The Democrats' way of being, but Republicans (at least today's Trumpian Republicans) are only supportive of their own and for the most part (unless there's some ulterior motive) won't work for the common good by reaching across the aisle. 

I respectfully disagree.  Saying all Trump supporters are unethical is unkind.  But also not true.  I spent the day working with the local Infant Welfare Society committee and the entire group I was working with voted for Trump.  I don’t know if they actually like him or if they are just lifelong republicans who don’t deviate from the party.  These are good people who work tirelessly to ensure healthcare for the babies and mothers in the underserved community.   
 

Sidenote- the Democrat in me would argue that universal healthcare would be better than having to have groups raise money for the medical care.  
But until that happens, I’m grateful that there are groups to help.

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

That's because Trump has never been a part of the NYC elite. He's too vulgar to have ever been invited into that group. The man's taste has always been suspect and rather emblematic of what the lower classes think of as rich and also what they would deploy if they suddenly got millions. All the gold, just all the gold. I remember walking by Trump Tower when I was in New York and just marveling at how ugly the building is.

I'm a 66 year old native New Yorker that lived half my life in the Bronx in NYC. I still live close enough to drive there for day trips and my husband is there for work at least twice a week. So I have known of Trump longer than most people and never liked him. He never acted like a rich guy. He acted more like a typical working class borough guy. I saw it when I was young - He talked just like the working class guys that hung out at the bars when I was in my 20s. You know, the cops, the fireman, the construction workers, etc. He spews the same stuff they spewed about minorities, immigrants, welfare, you name it. It's like he's parroting back all their views back to them to get them to support him. I know some of his views come from his bigoted father too but it amazes me how he has these people's values and outlook down to perfection. He must have been studying them for decades. I think he's a chameleon in some ways. For example, I don't for one minute believe he cares one bit about abortion, he just became anti-abortion to court the religious right. 

And that in a nutshell is why they love him so much - He speaks their language. When I was young I dated a guy that sounded just like Trump. Let's just say that relationship didn't last long. So I've been around this mentality for a very long time. And like a lot of native New Yorkers, I'm beyond sick and tired of him. He's like the zombie that keeps coming back. I left NYC but I still can't get rid of him.

[Yeah No]

15 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I respectfully disagree.  Saying all Trump supporters are unethical is unkind.  But also not true.  I spent the day working with the local Infant Welfare Society committee and the entire group I was working with voted for Trump.  I don’t know if they actually like him or if they are just lifelong republicans who don’t deviate from the party.  These are good people who work tirelessly to ensure healthcare for the babies and mothers in the underserved community.   

I'm not talking about how ethical people are with each other as people. I'm only talking about the way politicians deal with each other when working in the political arena. It is well known that today's Republicans in the Senate don't tend to want to reach "across the aisle" to get laws passed. In fact they often do everything to prevent that from happening if they don't get everything exactly their way. I was not talking about how they are in any other context. And that in my opinion is not the way Republicans used to be, nor is it ethical. Many of them probably still want to cooperate with Democrats but are under intense pressure not to break ranks even if they would really rather come to consensus with Democrats. Only a few do it but many others are afraid to because heaven forbid what might happen to them if they displease Trump. It's a sad situation, in my opinion.

Edited November 8 by Yeah No

[Ancaster]

14 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thank you for that, I was watching that show last night but fell asleep before that interview. A direct link to the YouTube of this interview can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nno64FGj8d0

 

 

Thanks for this - very interesting and perceptive.

Watching TV tonight I was reminded of her explanation of people hearing only the good and ignoring the bad.  It's just like all the pharmaceutical commercials on TV  - people hear that it may cure whatever ailment they have and ignore all the horrific potential side effects, including death.  Just as these commercials should be banned in the US as they are in every other Western country except New Zealand, so should the felonious Trump be banned from public office.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I know Pelosi, freaking Clooney, and the news media were salivating at the idea of a brokered convention, but history shows that that is not necessarily the way to pick a winning campaign. And, like I said, if you think Black women (who are the backbone of the Democratic Party) were to just going to stand aside and watch the qualified Black woman who was second in line get pushed aside, I don’t know what to tell you. With the time that was left, the best choice possible was made. We can Monday morning quarterback it for years, but no one really knows the answers. 

I agree with you. It makes no sense to talk about what would have been ideal because there just wasn't time for a convention and then a campaign. I think they were between a rock and a hard place given the timing of when Biden backed out and the circumstances. People are now blaming Biden for that but he only backed out under pressure from his own party. If your own party is starting to turn on you what choice do you have? So now they're saying he should have backed out earlier - but he didn't think he needed to back out, and I'm not going to question that, that was his opinion of his ability. And the only reason he was convinced to back out is not because they convinced him he was unable to do the job but because of the fact that the perception was gaining in his own party that he was mentally compromised and unable to do the job. Once that happened he really had no choice even if he was completely capable. The public would take the fact that his own party wanted him to drop out as a sign that he was not capable even if he was and he would automatically have zero chances of winning.

So if you want my opinion, the blame for this falls directly on the Democratic party itself. Where were they in January to tell him to back down? Why so late in the game? Just because he bungled the debate and they freaked out and thought that he just lost the election for them? The whole thing just snowballed but it gained momentum because of the Democrats making it more of a thing. I hate it that Democrats shoot themselves in the foot all the time. They can be their own worst enemies sometimes. Republicans never do that, especially not for Trump. Trump guy gets away with saying crazy things and he's never told he's too old or demented by his own party and should step down. Oh no, it's the Emperor's New Clothes with Trump!

The sad truth is that Biden couldn't get away with what Trump gets away with and the Dems. knew it so they knew it was bad if the public perceived him as senile. The standard for Democrats is higher, and I hate that but that's the sad reality.

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

So if you want my opinion, the blame for this falls directly on the Democratic party itself. Where were they in January to tell him to back down? Why so late in the game? Just because he bungled the debate and they freaked out and thought that he just lost the election for them? The whole thing just snowballed but it gained momentum because of the Democrats making it more of a thing. I hate it that Democrats shoot themselves in the foot all the time. They can be their own worst enemies sometimes. Republicans never do that, especially not for Trump. Trump guy gets away with saying crazy things and he's never told he's too old or demented by his own party and should step down. Oh no, it's the Emperor's New Clothes with Trump!

I blame the media, too. The double standards in how they treated Biden and how they treated that orange crayon were rage-inducing. They were merciless after the debate. They basically spread a rumor Biden had Parkinson’s based on barely anything at all. And notice how after Biden dropped out, there was barely a peep about age even though the racist-in-chief is also older than the hills. I will never go as far as that subhuman troll or his base and say the media is the enemy of the people, but my trust in many in the media plummeted after the debate.

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Social media is a cesspool of constant name calling.  I think it’s mostly bots, and they are trolling to get engagement- people fighting and clicking.  I don’t consider social media real life.  
 

Trump said he would sic the military on democrats?  I can’t imagine that’s true.

Also, as someone that watches all news, please stop spreading the project 2025 nonsense as fact.  Trump didn’t even know what it was.  It’s not legitimate.  The only people talking about it are democrats, as a scare tactic.

Social media and legitimate media (news) is tearing the country apart.  

I agree a lot of social media is toxic, but I won’t outright dismiss what happens there. Yes, there are a lot of trolls (the new owner of Twitter being chief among them) but there are still real people there, expressing real views. 
 

People have already provided the proof that, yes, the R-i-C really did say that about using the military on his detractors.

The Project 25 stuff is not nonsense or a scare tactic. It is deadly serious. 45 is a freaking pathological liar. The only reason he denied knowing about it is because of how unpopular it is. He and Vance not only espouse many of the same beliefs in it, they also champion many of the people behind it. The wannabe dictator has said he wants to put many of them in key positions in his administration.

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Hi everyone, 

as most of you only know notes from moderators when the team concludes a little nudge in a different direction is warranted, I wanted to leave this note to simply thank you for discussing a complex topic at a difficult time with respect and consideration. 

[Soapy Goddess]

11 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

We did have a primary and Biden was chosen. I will always believe he never should have stepped aside in the first place. But when he did he was wise to make sure that Harris was going to be the candidate. When people voted for Biden they were voting for her, too. She’s his VP. If he steps down, she’s the logical choice. And having some ridiculously short, contentious primary two months before early voting would have been madness. 

Agree he was forced to step aside, which happened after a poor performance onstage (debate). The beloved George Clooney was coaxed by Pelosi & Obama to write the op ed pleading with him to step aside. So who's fault is that?

[Soapy Goddess]

8 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

You pick the best candidate. Not just someone who 'deserves' it based on positioning.  

Bravo!!

[Soapy Goddess]

4 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Social media is a cesspool of constant name calling.  I think it’s mostly bots, and they are trolling to get engagement- people fighting and clicking.  I don’t consider social media real life.  
 

Trump said he would sic the military on democrats?  I can’t imagine that’s true.

Also, as someone that watches all news, please stop spreading the project 2025 nonsense as fact.  Trump didn’t even know what it was.  It’s not legitimate.  The only people talking about it are democrats, as a scare tactic.

Social media and legitimate media (news) is tearing the country apart.

Thank you, heatherchandler. it's really a shame how social media has ruined this country. Before SM, no one knew where people stood politically. Nor did we care to know. That was private in the same way we protect our income and/or religion.

As a result of SM, we are a divided country with no way back in sight. To think that people actually hate one another over their political preference is unfathomable. 

This divide has also caused undue stress among us all. We are afraid to speak our minds because we might lose friends, and yes, family members too. So sad, and yet so true.

We are ALL Americans. No one party is better than the other. We only had two choices. And while they may not have been the best, that's all we had. As GF once said, can't we all just get along (without the anger over party)?

Instead let's ask questions and listen to the answers. We might also learn something looking for possible solutions. We have to talk to one another in order to seek those solutions. It's never easy, but what's the alternative?

Edited November 8 by Soapy Goddess

[Ceindreadh]

16 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Thank you, heatherchandler. it's really a shame how social media has ruined this country. Before SM, no one knew where people stood politically. Nor did we care to know. That was private in the same way we protect our income and/or religion.

As a result of SM, we are a divided country with no way back in sight. To think that people actually hate one another over their political preference is unfathomable. 

This divide has also caused undue stress among us all. We are afraid to speak out minds because we might lose friends, and yes, family members too. So sad, and yet so true.

We are ALL Americans. No one party is better than the other. We only had two choices. And while they may not have been the best, that's all we had. As GF once said, can't we all just get along?

Personally I think it’s nice to know someone’s political affiliations. 
it’s especially nice to know if you’re dealing with someone who sees nothing wrong with voting for a convicted felon and a sexual abuser.  It’s nice to know if you’re dealing with somebody who doesn’t believe that you deserve bodily autonomy. 
 

I am looking forward to seeing the leopards eating a lot of faces in the next four years. 

Edited November 8 by Ceindreadh
Damn autocorrect

[Soapy Goddess]

7 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

Personally I think it’s nice to know someone’s political affiliations. 
it’s especially nice to know if you’re dealing with someone who sees nothing wrong with voting for a convicted felon and a sexual abuser.  It’s nice to know if you’re dealing with somebody who doesn’t believe that you deserve bodily autonomy. 
 

I am looking forward to seeing the leopards eating a lot of faces in the next four years. 

I'm sorry that you didn't understand my message 😒

[andromeda331]

I just don't get why so many people are willing to let Trump get away with all of his crimes. What has he done to deserve such loyalty? Nothing. What goes around comes around when is it going to come for Trump? Never? 

My axiety is getting worse every time I try to relax I think of another thing he's in control of or can do. Deport millions. Ukrane's going to have hope Europe's up to the task of helping them. Putin's very happy, of course he is. The Supreme Court. All his criminal cases gone. He'll never be held responsible for January 6.  Or anything he does in the coming four years.

It's so exhausting and it hasn't even started yet.

[tearknee]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Like I said before, why is it always on the Democrats to learn how to reach across the aisle and be inclusive, to mind their language lest they alienate potential voters? Why doesn't the right ever get that lecture? 

More of the non-university-educated elite that comprise the voting majority (the monied elite is not the only elite) fear, however baselessly, the left and far left more than the right and far right.

7 hours ago, Blergh said:

I'm trying my best to stay strong and positive against the odds for the sake of future generations  (and to keep Mama in as good a state as can be) but I know that things are  going to be challenging in ways we can't anticipate.

 

 BTW,where I can apply for a transfer to 1979?

Do I have to be two again if it comes through for me?

[Palimelon]

Quote

I never see Republicans hating democrats, but I see a lot of anger toward Trump voters

You mean when they call dems woke and baby killers and people who support groomers, it's said with affection and love?

Quote

There is always in-fighting with the Democrats, and the republicans just get behind their candidate. I hate the in-fighting. 

The Republicans tried for 5 minutes with DeSantis (who is just as bad as Trump), but once they saw that wasn't working, they just said "eff it, back to Trump".

[Palimelon]

Quote

I'm not getting involved in talk of "why she lost" because it was against *him*. 

Desi Lydic from the Daily Show said it best, "I really don't care why she lost, I care why he won".

[PRgal]

4 hours ago, Ancaster said:

Thanks for this - very interesting and perceptive.

Watching TV tonight I was reminded of her explanation of people hearing only the good and ignoring the bad.  It's just like all the pharmaceutical commercials on TV  - people hear that it may cure whatever ailment they have and ignore all the horrific potential side effects, including death.  Just as these commercials should be banned in the US as they are in every other Western country except New Zealand, so should the felonious Trump be banned from public office.

You do see pharma commercials in Canada but they can’t mention what they do.  So you can always tell whether an Ozempic ad is Canadian or American because ours just say “ask your doctor” at the end. 

[Palimelon]

Quote

 I’m talking about real life brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, friend, neighbors, etc saying that if so and so votes for Trump they will no longer consider them family or friend.  Not showing up to Thanksgiving.  Because they are evil and horrible.  

You're voting for someone who is going to be changing the way of life for many people, in a negative way, not based on policies to improve the country, but one that will impact people's lives in how they live and in many cases relegating them to being second class citizens.

It's not like the debate is about whether supply side economics will be better for the economy than demand side economics, this is a platform which includes hate for many marginalized communities, and nothing more than empty slogans about doing things like improving the economy (and the concrete stuff that was offered, like starting tariff wars with foreign countries, isn't reassuring).

Quote

So they find it refreshing that he cuts through the BS, insults them, says horrible things about the people they think the Dem. politicians put above them, and even better, gets away with it. They're getting their "justice" vicariously through him being the "bad boy" brat in the White House. 

Yeah, for a good chunk of Trump's support base, he is sticking it to the people they don't like and/or feel unjustly threatened by. And he allows them to say out loud what they really feel.

I mean, from the beginning, this guy was saying its cool to grab a woman by the Hello Kitty because she wants it or whatever? And this is who your moral barometer is ok with?

Quote

So if you want my opinion, the blame for this falls directly on the Democratic party itself. Where were they in January to tell him to back down? Why so late in the game? Just because he bungled the debate and they freaked out and thought that he just lost the election for them? The whole thing just snowballed but it gained momentum because of the Democrats making it more of a thing. I hate it that Democrats shoot themselves in the foot all the time. They can be their own worst enemies sometimes. Republicans never do that, especially not for Trump. Trump guy gets away with saying crazy things and he's never told he's too old or demented by his own party and should step down. Oh no, it's the Emperor's New Clothes with Trump!

The sad truth is that Biden couldn't get away with what Trump gets away with and the Dems. knew it so they knew it was bad if the public perceived him as senile. The standard for Democrats is higher, and I hate that but that's the sad reality.

This. But also

Quote

I blame the media, too. The double standards in how they treated Biden and how they treated that orange crayon were rage-inducing. They were merciless after the debate. They basically spread a rumor Biden had Parkinson’s based on barely anything at all. And notice how after Biden dropped out, there was barely a peep about age even though the racist-in-chief is also older than the hills. I will never go as far as that subhuman troll or his base and say the media is the enemy of the people, but my trust in many in the media plummeted after the debate.

This. I expect it from a country like the UK (no offense to anyone from the UK, but let's be honest, the media there overall, not completely, but more often than not, tends to fall more on the conservative side than unbiased) whereas the media in the US is supposed to be unbiased but lately seems to moving right of center.

And there is the opinion that this has been a strategy of Trump's...keep throwing out insane nasty stuff as much as possible to the point where for many people it's become normalized so that people just tend to shrug their shoulders at it rather than be mad about it.

[Spartan Girl]

I’m really done with all the bad takes about what Biden and Harris and everyone that campaigned for them did wrong, they tried, people didn’t listen. The media sanewashed Trump, and people just fixated on the issues that they cared about. Those voters and non voters can try to justify their choices all they want, but evil triumphs when good people do nothing.

[Enigma X]

47 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m really done with all the bad takes about what Biden and Harris and everyone that campaigned for them did wrong, they tried, people didn’t listen. The media sanewashed Trump, and people just fixated on the issues that they cared about. Those voters and non voters can try to justify their choices all they want, but evil triumphs when good people do nothing.

I agree that many good people tried. It was not mainly good people who did nothing in this case. Many bad people did a lot in the other direction.

Edited November 8 by Enigma X

[SeanBug]

20 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Thank you for that, I was watching that show last night but fell asleep before that interview. A direct link to the YouTube of this interview can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nno64FGj8d0

I think Tressie was spot-on and I've been thinking and saying similar in that Trump appeals to people's emotions and not any rational focus on the issues. It's how he makes people feel about themselves and whatever idealized nostalgic fantasy they want to go back to of "the good old days", which in this case can even be as recent as pre-pandemic, and unfortunately, lucky bastard that he is, he was president at a time that is largely romanticized in people's memories as a better one than the post-pandemic era. And she's right that their misperception is that it was better was because of him, not for other reasons. Or the misperception that it was better at all. Some of that feeling was a romanticized view of "the good old days". I remember that with Sept. 11. People saw the times before that as more happy and innocent. Everything seemed to go downhill after that in our memories. And the same is true for the pandemic. And again, the lucky bastard gets credited with that! Unfortunately Kamala was identified in people's minds with everything that went wrong after the pandemic. Biden suffered from that perception as well and that's why he was so maligned and blamed for stuff he was not to blame for but was actually dealing with very well.

Now we're back to 2016 in that the Democrats are going to have to go back and figure out what they did wrong - In my opinion they did the same thing wrong this time that they did last time. In order to beat a guy like Trump you have to put someone up that can connect with people on an emotional level. The Dems. need to find someone that doesn't come off as being above the people and who knows what they want and need even if they don't - someone who seems like just a regular unprivileged person, not one of the elite. Unfortunately Kamala's education and profession make her already seem like one of the elite in spite of being a woman and a minority. No offense to her but she was unable to successfully project the image of a regular person who can understand the average person from the inside out. She tried to push that angle but in my opinion it didn't come across that well, not even to me and I'm a woman with a Master's degree and wanted to see her that way! Again, nothing wrong with her, but a lot of people today need to be reached in their feelings and not just women and minorities, but everyone including white men. Not doing that only makes white men feel like they don't care about them and I think that's a mistake that needs to be corrected if the Dems. want to win the White House again. They have to prove that everyone's rights and concerns are their concerns.

The Dems. need to find someone that makes the average person feel good about themselves and like they can give them the future they so long for. Tressie was right that the Dems. have only targeted women and minorities this way and they need to broaden it to everyone else. I was originally not on board with replacing Biden with her because I didn't think she seemed as regular and relatable as he was to the broader American public including the working class. I think THAT's what got Joe the presidency in 2020 - that he seemed like the level headed regular, straight talking roll up your shirtsleeves regular guy type that could stop the insanity and wouldn't take no BS from Trump. Next to Trump he seemed like the medium happy that more people might have confidence in to help them out. I think Harris's choice of Tim Walz was an effort to try to bolster that image for her but I don't think it was enough.

I also don't think the Dems. attacked head-on the disinformation being spread about them and what they as a party and their candidates stand for. They often take the high road and Kamala did that a lot but the truth is the public didn't really know her as well as it knew Joe Biden. He was in very visible politics for decades so we knew where he was coming from and could have some confidence in him not to go too far in any extreme direction based on that. Unfortunately that was not the case for Kamala and she really needed to push back on all the lies being spread about her. I don't think she did enough of that, at least not convincingly. No, she was not left of Lenin, she was not part of the "squad", she was not for letting scores of people over the border unchecked, etc. This is the kind of misinformation that was getting to the average person about her and they were believing it because it fed into fears they already had about her. And any of her protests against it were not believed because people didn't know her well enough to trust her on that. But I don't even have the sense that she or the Dems. realized just how vitally important it was to counter that misinformation head-on. She tried to show that she was for fracking and other things not as left-leaning as the general perception of her but it didn't feel convincing. And that was a problem.

Tressie did a little IG chat to sum up the election and announce she was taking a break for some r&r.  She expanded on the comments about identity politics. Dems have forgotten that white middle class is also an identity.  It's not that white middle class doesn't care about others, but when all they hear is women and minorities, it makes them "feel" like they're left out.  Even if they really aren't. 

I was rather surprised that Harris didn't use Buttigieg as a surrogate during the campaign. Not that he doesn't have a ft job as TransSec, but he's the guy you go to when you want to reach the Fox demographic. 

I really hope he considers a run for office again.  I would love to see him come in and run for Governor of Indiana, but I would also like him to take another stab at POTUS.  People know him now, they see he has federal gov't experience and he ticks a lot of boxes. IMO he's Obama 2.0.