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S01.E08: Great Or Little Thing

Snazzy Daisy

By Snazzy Daisy
in The Penguin

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Raachel2008

Raachel2008

That was an excellent first season and Colin Farrell and Cristin Milioti deserve all the awards - the entire cast was spot on.

I knew  Sofia was going back to Arkham the moment she said no no man was going to boss her anymore (or something to that effect).

Ten bucks Selena’s letter had a pic of Sofia’s mom with baby Selena from that first attempt she did to leave Falcone when Sofia and Alberto were little. 
 

Here hoping Sofia comes back next season and becomes a mob boss again.

i didn’t see Victors death coming - that was brutal. Poor kid, you should have left to LA with your girlfriend .

Oswald, Oedipus called and he wants his plot back.

Those last three minutes were fantastic.

Ready for season 2.

 

 

 

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ShellsandCheese

ShellsandCheese

I like how the show ended by reminding us that Oz is a despicable human being who has no shot at redemption because he’s rather be who he is. I was hoping that Victor would make it, but was also like, I wouldn’t be surprised if he dies. I just never guessed it would end like that. 

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SeanC

SeanC

(edited)

Freud feeling very vindicated by that final scene.

Selina reference! I wonder if that means we could see Sofia again.

Oswald looking more like the classic comics Penguin at the end was genuinely unexpected.

Edited by SeanC
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magdalene

magdalene

Whether there is a second season or not I won't be watching more of this. It's just too much a downer for me what with one thing or another in the last week. 

I am proud of myself that I stopped rooting for OZ even in the slightest last episode. 

Him killing Victor was just so awful for me.  I hope the young actor gets more good roles. He is just so talented. He would make an excellent live action Miles Morales.

I will watch the next Batman movie just to see Oz destroyed and for Sofia alive to know it.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

At expected, Oswald overcomes the odds and is now sitting on top of the criminal world.  And all it cost him was almost everyone he cared for and proved what even his own mother knew along: that he is a despicable human being with no redeemable qualities.  And I wouldn't want it any other way!

Show briefly got me with thinking Sofia was done for, but in the end, it went the way I suspected it would: she's now back in Arkham, which is a fate she might even consider worse than death.  Basically, Oz made it look like everything that transpired was actually a turf war between her/the Falcones and the Maronis, and pinned almost all the his acts on her instead.  Granted, she did help things by actually trying to blow him up and leveling the streets in the process.  Whoops!  Admittedly, I'm sure there are holes that can be poked into that story, but knowing how Gotham runs (not to mention they are still dealing with all of the stuff that transpired in The Batman film), I can see it holding with all of the corrupt officials and what not.  But it sounds like Selina Kyle just reached out, so I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the last we see of her in this universe, which is definitely a great thing!

Alas though, this is it for poor Vic.  Had a bad feeling Oswald was not going to let him remain after all of this, and sure enough, he kills him due to Vic knowing all of his plans, seeing him "at his worst", and the belief that "family" will hold him back  Yep, that checks.  Oswald is the type of guy who will kill someone who has been nothing but loyal to him, due to his own ego, paranoia, and belief that everyone else thinks the way he does.  Fare thee well, Vic.  You should have gone with your girlfriend when you could.  Hope Rhenzy Feliz gets some other projects going forward.

Francis actually figured out that Oswald killed his brothers all along and was even close to letting that Rex guy "give him a ride home" at the nightclub years ago.  At least she got to finally chew him out for that (not to mention stab him), but then she collapses and is basically a vegetable now.  But fear not!  Her son is making sure she is taken care of by sticking her in a penthouse and getting to view the city by herself.  All while he romantically slow dances with Eve, as she dresses and acts like his own mother.  Ick!

A little surprised that Dr. Rush seems to be skating by and is basically in the same spot he was initially.  Wonder if he'll be popping back up as well?

All of the gangs are now being controlled by the underlings who had felt disrespected all of this time.  If nothing else, Oz was on point about the aspect of those who feel under-appreciated taking things into their own hands.  Of course, Vic was the one who actually helped kick it all off, so nice way to appreciate him for that, Penguin....

Bat Signal for the win!

Curious to see what is in store for Oswald and the rest of the remaining characters going forward (since it sounds like this was suppose to be just an one and done season), but I enjoyed the ride and it makes me look forward to more installments from the "Reevesverse."  Colin Farrell crushed it and his version of Oswald Cobblepot is on its way to being one of my favorite iterations of the iconic character, and Cristin Milioti fucking stole the entire show as Sofia Falcone.  Hope the two gets some award love down the line. 

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peridot

peridot

I had to pause this episode and spoil myself on what was going to happen, it was very tense. 

It's disgusting that Francis was able to ignore what Oz did to her other sons, just for the chance to live big in a penthouse.  Oz was maybe 13 when he killed his brothers, and I'm guessing he's in his fifties in the end.  I couldn't stomach being in the same vicinity as the man.  Francis' greed gave Oz the opportunity to destroy so many lives.

Even at the end, Oz couldn't admit to what he done and was willing to let Sofia's henchmen cut off her finger.  He's absolute scum.

Poor Victor and Sofia.  I was hoping that Sofia would get away.

That ending was messed up - Eve is now a surrogate for his mother?!

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Snazzy Daisy

Snazzy Daisy

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Victorrrrrrrrrr!!! 😭😭😭

When Colin Farrell said that we will end up hating Oz by the end of The Penguin, he wasn’t joking.

I want you to win but now I f*cking hate you, Oswald "Oz" Cobb‼️🤬

Overwhelming with disgust, the show then makes me think about who the real hero is…

D1B86AA6-419D-4F0B-881B-6C91ED9C5F9F.thumb.jpeg.efc113f61b68cfa63c8fba53238e5214.jpeg
 

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paigow

paigow

(edited)
10 hours ago, peridot said:

That ending was messed up - Eve is now a surrogate for his mother?!

Part of that was likely to offset some of the Penguin Prosthetic budget... The same dress was used for 3 actresses.. $$$ saved.... kudos to wardrobe staff.... 

Edited by paigow
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paigow

paigow

(edited)

Surprising that young Selina actually knows how to use snail mail... Maybe she will call Arkham from a rotary pay phone in the movie....

Edited by paigow
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Snapdragon

Snapdragon

I had one fleeting moment in the middle of the episode where I was thinking, "Wait, is Vic actually going to make it out of this series alive?" But then common sense prevailed and I was all, "No, Oz is going to murder him"  and I was right.  I knew Vic couldn't make it out of the series because they'd need his death to really nail in that the Penguin is a bad guy.  Also, where would the character go from here?  Make a random cameo in The Batman 2?  I didn't expect his death to be so brutal though.  I thought Oz would at least make it quick and shoot him or something.  Especially cruel to have it be a slow death where Vic is fully aware of being betrayed by a man he'd come to view as family.  

I saw the second in command double cross coming as well as Sofia getting put back in Arkham.  Didn't expect Catwoman to write her though, so maybe she'll bust her sister out at some point?  Because I would like to see more of Sofia.  

What did totally catch me by surprise was Eve dressed as Oz's mother.  Good for you show, because that was totes disturbing.  Also, Eve, you're in danger, girl!  Out of all the weird stuff she's probably had to do as a hooker, I'd imagine that's got to rank in her top 5.

I felt that the first four episodes of this show were the strongest but it was still a satisfying viewing experience overall.  Even though I called a lot of the twists in the last episode, that finale is still sticking with me the morning after, so that says something.  Now I just need The Batman 2 to come out, where hopefully we get to see Sofia and Oz again (even if it's just for Sofia to get some revenge on Oz before dying, cuz I mean, she did kill an entire city block's worth of people).

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paigow

paigow

8 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

Also, Eve, you're in danger, girl!  Out of all the weird stuff she's probably had to do as a hooker, I'd imagine that's got to rank in her top 5

Oz likely figured she ratted him out-  this is punishment...

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TiffanyNichelle

TiffanyNichelle

They should have titled this episode "They call me Oedipus" because ew, so much ew. 

It didn't hit me until she dyed her hair and put on Francis's dress how much Eve looked like his mother this whole time. That's why he was with her so much because that resemblance was always there. And the fact that they both never really liked him. He was probably making her do these sorts of things this whole time without it being as obvious.  I'm happy he never got to hear Francis say that she was proud of him. He was robbed of that moment and I hope it eats at him forever no matter how many times he makes Eve roleplay as his mother.

As soon as they made a big deal about the second in commands, the always over looked people, rising up and taking over for the big bosses, I knew Victor was definitely dead. Not just because he saw Oz at his lowest and knew all the secrets, he just couldn't take the chance of Victor doing the same to him one day.

Sofia ending up back in Arkham with the doctor once again broke my heart. Like Victor should have gotten on the bus with his girlfriend, she should have taken the trip to Italy earlier in the season.

 

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Ottis

Ottis

2 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

It didn't hit me until she dyed her hair and put on Francis's dress how much Eve looked like his mother this whole time.

The first or second time we met Eve, I thought she *was* Oz's mother ... I think maybe the second time her hair was darker? Anyway, that ending made perfect sense to me.

3 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

I felt that the first four episodes of this show were the strongest but it was still a satisfying viewing experience overall.

I agree. The first few eps, I thought this was a defining depiction of a villain I didn't know well. It bordered on Ledger's Joker, whose main difference was that Joker had a consistent philosophy regarding chaos.

But this Oz never got there. When it took a turn toward his relationship with his mom, I started to lose interest. And in the end, they spent A LOT of time with his mom to basically tell us

Spoiler

Oz killed his bros and his mom actually knew about it and tried to use it for her own benefit.

When the alternative is killing your last remaining son, it's not really a hard decision for her. It feels like the show wanted us to feel a lot of angst about something that seemed pretty straightforward to me.

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Oswald is the type of guy who will kill someone who has been nothing but loyal to him, due to his own ego, paranoia, and belief that everyone else thinks the way he does.

Huh. Wonder who that sounds like?

15 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

A little surprised that Dr. Rush seems to be skating by and is basically in the same spot he was initially.  Wonder if he'll be popping back up as well?

I didn't get this, either. Did no one notice what he had been doing with Sofia? I guess Gotham is just that corrupt.

 

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Snapdragon

Snapdragon

13 minutes ago, Ottis said:

 

I didn't get this, either. Did no one notice what he had been doing with Sofia? I guess Gotham is just that corrupt.

 

The entire show only takes place over a few months, right?  So it's possible that no one really knew that Dr. Rush was hanging out with Sofia since she was probably paying him off the books and basically everyone who knew he was working with her is dead.  So if he still had contacts at Arkham, then it wouldn't be that hard to get his old job back (I assume that Arkham has staffing issues, given the awful working environment).  

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smartyshorts

smartyshorts

Although I knew Victor was a goner, the way Oz did it, up close and personal right after Victor declared he felt like Oz was family...that hit me so hard.  Probably harder than it should have. And to toss his ID, so no one would even know who he was...ugh, that was more villain than I could stomach.  I started ugly sobbing.  It took  me back to "The Wire" days.

I too was overjoyed that Francis got to tell Oz that she knew he was the absolute devil and he NEVER got to hear her say she was "proud".

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Snapdragon

Snapdragon

Forgot to add, about Oz killing Vic after poor Vic says they're like family, if you look at all the other mob bosses, it's basically because of family that they get taken out.  Sal's family is his weak spot and his trying to avenge their deaths leads to his heart attack.  Sofia gets betrayed by her family, then sticks around to avenge the death of her brother, which ultimately leads to her downfall.  So while Oz may be a psychopath, it's interesting that the theme if "family's a liability if you're in the mob" is quietly running in the background throughout the show.

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paigow

paigow

1 hour ago, Snapdragon said:

So while Oz may be a psychopath, it's interesting that the theme if "family's a liability if you're in the mob" 

in any profession...  Treadstone,  Harry Potter & The Durnsleys

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millennium

millennium

Less than impressed by this series.   I simply couldn't suspend disbelief to accept that a) Batman wouldn't have gotten involved at some point, or b) that Penguin expressed not even the teensiest concern about the Bat vigilante emerging from the shadows at any one of numerous points in these episodes -- especially given the very dramatic encounter he had with Batman not so long ago.  Not even a passing reference to Batman.   Not by Penguin and not by any of the forty or so other mobsters we saw despite that Batman had already established a significant reputation among the Gotham criminal element.     To the annoyance of my watching partner, I kept yelling at the TV "Where's Batman in all of this?"

So all that, and the feeling at times that I was watching an off-brand Sopranos.  

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TV Anonymous

TV Anonymous

One thing that I like about this show is that even though it is set in Batman - and therefore DC superheroes - universe, the fantasy element is minimum. With the exception of the mushroom, everything in the show could happen IRL. Even the Penguin does not have superhuman ability, unlike Danny de Vito who could summon actual penguins.

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paigow

paigow

23 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I'm happy he never got to hear Francis say that she was proud of him. He was robbed of that moment and I hope it eats at him forever no matter how many times he makes Eve roleplay as his mother.

every time he sees that stab scar 

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CynVicious

CynVicious

Wow, Oz is a real piece of crap. I was a bit surprised that he didn't throw his "lady friend" out the window at the end.

Really enjoyed this , reminded me of how I felt about Walter White.

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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

On 11/12/2024 at 2:56 AM, millennium said:

Less than impressed by this series.   I simply couldn't suspend disbelief to accept that a) Batman wouldn't have gotten involved at some point, or b) that Penguin expressed not even the teensiest concern about the Bat vigilante emerging from the shadows at any one of numerous points in these episodes -- especially given the very dramatic encounter he had with Batman not so long ago.  Not even a passing reference to Batman.   Not by Penguin and not by any of the forty or so other mobsters we saw despite that Batman had already established a significant reputation among the Gotham criminal element.     To the annoyance of my watching partner, I kept yelling at the TV "Where's Batman in all of this?"

So all that, and the feeling at times that I was watching an off-brand Sopranos.  

But even Batman can't be everywhere at once. Even though this played out over 8 weeks for the episodes, the time frame from episode 1-8 in in-universe time is probably a couple weeks at most. 

And who's to say that he isn't investigating some aspect of this, but just hasn't gotten to the big players yet? 

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

On 11/11/2024 at 4:31 AM, paigow said:

Unless Selina - or Batman - can coerce a confession from dirty councilman.... Sofia is not getting out of Arkham anytime soon...

Who knows. I mean she presumably still has money somewhere and there is clearly a ton of corruption in that place. And there is no one left like her dad basically making sure she stays there. Hope she gets out of there is another season because she was the best part of the show. And her crazy red burning down the house outfit was awesome.

On 11/11/2024 at 12:32 PM, TiffanyNichelle said:

It didn't hit me until she dyed her hair and put on Francis's dress how much Eve looked like his mother this whole time. That's why he was with her so much because that resemblance was always there. And the fact that they both never really liked him. He was probably making her do these sorts of things this whole time without it being as obvious.  I'm happy he never got to hear Francis say that she was proud of him. He was robbed of that moment and I hope it eats at him forever no matter how many times he makes Eve roleplay as his mother.

When Sofia met Eve didn't Eve have some comments about her special relationship with Oz and her different looks. Wonder if she had been doing the motherly thing for a long time. I mean his mother's approval and affection is important to him and she has had dementia for awhile I think. And even before that if she knew about her other son's she probably wasn't doing the best job hiding how much she hated Oz.

On 11/11/2024 at 2:59 PM, Ottis said:

 I didn't get this, either. Did no one notice what he had been doing with Sofia? I guess Gotham is just that corrupt.

 

Who's left to notice. We mostly only ever saw Sofia and the doctor in her house and it seems like everyone else who set foot in that house is dead.

13 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But even Batman can't be everywhere at once. Even though this played out over 8 weeks for the episodes, the time frame from episode 1-8 in in-universe time is probably a couple weeks at most. 

And who's to say that he isn't investigating some aspect of this, but just hasn't gotten to the big players yet? 

Yea I don't mind the no Batman. I mean with all the actual crime in Gotham I can see why he might focus on protecting law abiding people, like by stopping assaults, robberies, kidnappings and murders, so that gangsters killing each other might be low priority. Plus this episode happened like the day after that giant sinkhole opened up, so probably not a lot of time for him to respond.

And in this world Batman has only been around for like 2 years. He might not yet have built up the underworld contacts to know what is happening with the Falcone and the Moroni families. Plus this Batman is supposed to be more grounded in reality than even the Nolan Batman I think. So going out every night to fight crime probably isn't realistic 

A couple of other small things I liked. That version of Where Did you sleep Last Night that was used while the house burned was awesome. And I loved the shot of the dirty cop getting the bullet through his eye from the back.

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

(edited)
31 minutes ago, paigow said:

Sofia is in Arkham as a justly convicted felon - blowing up Crown Point- with issues. Harvey Dent - or current D.A.- controls her future.

Do we know she was convicted of anything? I could just as easily see that a respected psychiatrist (like Dr. Rush) told a judge that she was too crazy to stand trial so she was just remanded to Arkham. So her being able to use the corruption of Arkham and Gotham in general to eventually get out.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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millennium

millennium

(edited)
On 11/15/2024 at 10:03 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

But even Batman can't be everywhere at once. Even though this played out over 8 weeks for the episodes, the time frame from episode 1-8 in in-universe time is probably a couple weeks at most. 

And who's to say that he isn't investigating some aspect of this, but just hasn't gotten to the big players yet? 

Batman can't be everywhere at once -- he says as much in the first minutes of The Batman.  However, he also says the criminal element of Gotham City is on edge because they never know where he'll turn up.   So even if (unbelievably) Batman was able to overlook a giant explosion in Crown Point, or the gassing of the Falcone clan, it absolutely beggars belief that the Penguin, his cronies and every other criminal in the show would never worry about him or even mention him. 

Edited by millennium
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