S02.E08 Thank You, Dr. Crane

[astrohip]

When Frasier returns to Seattle for a KACL anniversary special, he reconnects with a former caller whose life went off the rails.

Another good episode. Not quite as sharp as last week's, but this is two in a row (three?) that have been much better. The writers are hitting their stride.

[Panopticon]

I might give them four in a row. The Bebe episode and Cape Cod were my two favorites, I liked last week’s sister episode a lot, and this week had the Seattle reunion.

[Blakeston]

I really, really liked last week's, but I thought this one was lacking. The stuff with the magician fell flat for me, and I really wanted to see Frasier take a few calls - which we never got to see.

It was great to see Bulldog and Gil again (and Bulldog coming out was the best part of the episode by far), but they really couldn't have paid a few extra bucks to give us Noel or Kenny?

[Badger]

Rory O'Malley, who played Lou, is another of Kelsey's former costars. It was a show called "Partners".

[Bumblebee84047]

Rory O'Malley is a national treasure.

[MaryMitch]

Did anyone else catch that Carol Burnette was the voice of the caller "Jennifer" that Gil talked to and sang the Chinese food song? (About 16:50 into the episode.)

[Sarah 103]

@Blackeston I thought the reason Roz took over was that Kenny was leaving. It wouldn't make sense to have Kenny at KACL because he no longer works there. 

I thought the episode had potential but could have better. I would have liked to see Frasier dealing with the magician during commercial breaks or between promo/station events. 

[SoMuchTV]

43 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

Did anyone else catch that Carol Burnette was the voice of the caller "Jennifer" that Gil talked to and sang the Chinese food song? (About 16:50 into the episode.)

They did have a full screen picture of her in the end credits, but to be fair, most streamers (not positive about this one) make watching to the end of the credits harder than beating the final boss. (At least I assume that’s a relevant video game reference.)

[chessiegal]

Carol Burnett is credited as the voice on the IMDb page for the episode. I usually would go to the IMDb page for an episode because the credits for caller/s goes by so fast.

[Irlandesa]

19 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

They did have a full screen picture of her in the end credits, but to be fair, most streamers (not positive about this one) make watching to the end of the credits harder than beating the final boss. (At least I assume that’s a relevant video game reference.)

Luckily the credits in this one included her for me because I think my mind wandered during the call in. 

Bulldog was the best part of the episode for me. I think they spent too much time on the magician/Lou.  I was impressed they rebuilt a facsimile of the radio station, the coffee shop and the bar. It felt like the places. 

I don't know how I feel about Niles and Daphne in Sedona.  A vineyard makes sense but I feel like a sharper episode would have had Frasier make a comment on the quality of his brother's wine.  There's too much rivalry surrounding that drink for me to believe he let that pass him by.

[Chit Chat]

5 hours ago, astrohip said:

Not quite as sharp as last week's, but this is two in a row (three?) that have been much better. The writers are hitting their stride.

I wish I felt that way.  It's not very funny to us, and the laugh track is terrible.  We're struggling to get through each episode.  I was really hoping for better for this franchise.  

[shapeshifter]

Well. The funniest part for me and the loudest audience laughs was for when the rabbit ran into the cage (after the magician yelled at it). I'm not sure if that's good or terrible for a TV show. 

I did think Jack Cutmore-Scott (Freddy) and Anders Keith (David) gave some excellent facial and gestural expressions.

 

7 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

Did anyone else catch that Carol Burnette was the voice of the caller "Jennifer" that Gil talked to and sang the Chinese food song? (About 16:50 into the episode.)

Thanks. I'll FF to the part to hear. The IMDb credit just said "Voice" when I checked, and even if they add "caller" later, it's helpful to have the time stamp.

Having not watch Frasier in its original run, I never knew that Dan Butler (Bulldog) is gay IRL. That sure puts a whole different twist on his character's Male Chauvinist persona. 

[Annber03]

It was great to see Bulldog and Gil again. I remember they had a bit in an early episode of the original "Frasier" where this young woman Frasier was interested in asked if Bulldog was overcompensating, so that really adds something to the whole reveal of him being gay.

Loved the bit with Freddie and Frasier sharing a beer at the end -  the photos on the mantle of Martin and Angell were a lovely touch. Frasier saying, "This is Dr. Frasier Crane. I'm listening" when he was doing his show was great, too. I agree it would've been nice to see him deal with a few more callers, but it was cool that Carol Burnett got to be a guest caller :D. 

I also liked the way they showed how much Nervosa and McGinty's had changed over the years. Poor Roz, too, trying to still do her job in a dying industry (my dad worked in radio, so I really sympathized with Roz's struggle there as a result). 

I also liked Olivia's Scottish accent to scare Alan into sorting things out with David :p. And good casting for the assistant who replaced him - that moment when he and David first saw each other was good XD. 

[shapeshifter]

15 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

Did anyone else catch that Carol Burnette was the voice of the caller "Jennifer" that Gil talked to and sang the Chinese food song? (About 16:50 into the episode.)

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Thanks. I'll FF to the part to hear. The IMDb credit just said "Voice" when I checked, and even if they add "caller" later, it's helpful to have the time stamp.

I FFed to the bit (thanks again, @MaryMitch) and here's the transcript for Carol Burnett's voice appearance:

• [JENNIFER — OVER PHONE]:
  Hi, Gil. Oh, gosh.
  
  I really want to start a family,
  but my boyfriend isn't ready.
  
  Oh, what do I do?
   
• [GIL]: Well, Jennifer, darling,
  
  I do find that a good meal
  helps me think things through.
  
  And if you enjoy Chinese food...
  
  ♪ There's no dim sum
  like Cho dim sum ♪
  
  ♪ It's oh, so very delish! ♪

I got that this is supposed to be the punchline to the bit earlier in the episode when Roz tells Frasier “we can't afford the music rights” and then Gil starts singing bits of show tunes with similar sounding words substituted (never mind that it's the music rights that they have to pay for, because the different lyrics makes it a parody which legally side-steps copyright issues). 

And I even recognized that the song Gil is singing (with different words) is "There's No Business Like Show Business."

But I still had to do research to get this pretty obscure (to me) joke, which I guess I've figured out?
(Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, including about it being obscure)
So I thought I'd share:

It seems "There's No Business Like Show Business" was sung by Carol-as-char-woman in Season 1 Episode 5 of her show: imdb.com/title/tt0061240/episodes/?season=1

However, on neither the Peacock nor the FreeVee versions does this song appear. So I'm guessing the royalties were too costly?
(Like how the DVDs of the Roswell (1999-2002) TV show substituted music, for those few familiar.)

 

[Magnumfangirl]

The last few episodes were really good, but this one fell flat for me.  I don't really care about what's going in Seattle anymore, but I assume this storyline is a way to add Roz as a regular back in Boston.

[Avabelle]

Was Frasier meant to be a distant dad? I know Freddy didn’t live with him but I thought he was relatively hands on and close to Freddie whenever we saw him in the original run.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

Was Frasier meant to be a distant dad? I know Freddy didn’t live with him but I thought he was relatively hands on and close to Freddie whenever we saw him in the original run.

He always seemed to dote on Freddy whenever he was with him.  He did seem to be apart from him more than he was with him though.  The separation did neither any favors, but Frasier always spoke lovingly of Freddy.  

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Was Frasier meant to be a distant dad? I know Freddy didn’t live with him but I thought he was relatively hands on and close to Freddie whenever we saw him in the original run.

There was a lot of talk about this last season because of how little Frasier seemed to understand Freddie.  I don't think Frasier was distant emotionally but he was very distant physically for most of Freddie's life.  He loved Freddie but he did move across the country when Freddie was very young so he wasn't there for his day-to-day. And his next big move was still pretty far from Freddie.  A lot of communication when it comes to parenting involves observation which he couldn't do if they spent most of their time apart.  

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

@Blackeston I thought the reason Roz took over was that Kenny was leaving. It wouldn't make sense to have Kenny at KACL because he no longer works there. 

I thought the episode had potential but could have better. I would have liked to see Frasier dealing with the magician during commercial breaks or between promo/station events. 

If the writers expect us to believe that Frasier can get a tenure-track position at Harvard by doing a guest lecture, then they can give us a line or two explaining that Kenny came back to the station.

[Sarah 103]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:55 PM, Blakeston said:

If the writers expect us to believe that Frasier can get a tenure-track position at Harvard by doing a guest lecture, then they can give us a line or two explaining that Kenny came back to the station.

That could work. I would accept Kenny coming back to the station for the reunion to see everyone and say hi, or that Roz is running the station but that Kenny works there in a different capacity. 

[baldryanr]

On 11/3/2024 at 2:10 PM, Chit Chat said:

He always seemed to dote on Freddy whenever he was with him.  He did seem to be apart from him more than he was with him though.  The separation did neither any favors, but Frasier always spoke lovingly of Freddy.  

True, but for most of the original run Freddie was a preteen.  According to this episode Freddie was 17 in 2006, so we didn't get to see those teenage years.  Then there was the dropping out of Harvard situation and they were distant for years. 

Of course, the big positive is how close Freddie was to Martin.  I don't think that would have happened if Frasier hadn't moved back to Seattle.

[Chit Chat]

4 hours ago, baldryanr said:

True, but for most of the original run Freddie was a preteen.  According to this episode Freddie was 17 in 2006, so we didn't get to see those teenage years. 

The problem I have with his character is that I saw him in a certain light as a kid on the original show.  This Freddie is nothing like him at all.  People can change, and I get that, but there's such a big difference between the child vs. the adult Freddie, and it's another reason that the show isn't working for me. 

The show is painfully unfunny.  It has a few good moments, but overall, I expected much better than what they've given us.  I don't know if Roz can save this show or not.  Her scenes with Frasier aren't nearly as good as they used to be.   

[Yeah No]

43 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

The problem I have with his character is that I saw him in a certain light as a kid on the original show.  This Freddie is nothing like him at all.  People can change, and I get that, but there's such a big difference between the child vs. the adult Freddie, and it's another reason that the show isn't working for me. 

The show is painfully unfunny.  It has a few good moments, but overall, I expected much better than what they've given us.  I don't know if Roz can save this show or not.  Her scenes with Frasier aren't nearly as good as they used to be.   

I tend to agree. There are positive moments on this show but just as many are cringeworthy and a lot of people online still don't like the casting of older Freddy, me included. He's a little more palatable now that he's found his niche and isn't as surly and unhappy with his father, but his whole story is clunky and the way it's done is not convincing me that the Freddy we knew as a kid would ever be this Freddy. And why they didn't cast the original actor as Freddy is a big trade secret. Some speculate that the actor might have turned it down. I don't know if I believe that. Looking at photos of him now he would have made the perfect older Freddy. He's much better looking as an adult but he's not the handsome fox that Jack Cutmore Scott is. And that takes me totally out of it. It's just not believable.

One thing that made original Frasier great is that even though Niles never existed on Cheers we could totally believe he was Frasier's brother. There is no way I would believe this Freddy is Frasier's son. And much of that is based on having seen him as a child on the original show and already knowing what he was like. His lines and his entire persona just don't follow from what we already know. Another similar example that was well done was the casting on "Young Sheldon" where we see Sheldon's siblings as kids. We already met them a couple of times on "Big Bang Theory" as adults but we could totally believe that the kids they cast were them as kids, not just in appearance but in character too.

[Sarah 103]

20 hours ago, baldryanr said:

True, but for most of the original run Freddie was a preteen.  According to this episode Freddie was 17 in 2006, so we didn't get to see those teenage years.  Then there was the dropping out of Harvard situation and they were distant for years. 

Of course, the big positive is how close Freddie was to Martin.  I don't think that would have happened if Frasier hadn't moved back to Seattle.

While Frasier and Freddie lived on opposite coats, Frasier did see him on a regular basis (at least a few times a year, which isn't the same as being there day to day but he was part of his son's life).

I think it's interesting that this series really highlights the relationship between Freddie and Martin. Clearly spending time with his grandfather in Seattle had a significant impact on him.  

[Lois Sandborne]

On 11/5/2024 at 1:33 PM, baldryanr said:

True, but for most of the original run Freddie was a preteen.  According to this episode Freddie was 17 in 2006, so we didn't get to see those teenage years.  Then there was the dropping out of Harvard situation and they were distant for years.

It's just too hard to swallow this. Frasier doted on Frederick, even from across the country. Freddy loved being around his dad. We saw him visit Seattle and we saw Frasier visit him. We only saw the most superficial disagreements, when Freddy wanted to chase a girl at the campsite, and when he was chasing some other girl by being goth. We have no reason to think Frasier would be more disapproving of Freddy dropping out than Lillith, who didn't want him to play ball with "the slow children" and made a deal to never see Freddy in a school play or even attend his graduation just so he'd get into Marbury Academy. But Freddy adores Lillith. And he adores Martin, who we have no reason to think he ever saw except the same few times he visited Seattle to see his dad.

Sure, anything could've happened to them offscreen over 20 years. But there's no reason to believe it did. These writers are doing a ton of telling us that Freddy and Frasier were estranged, and that it was all Frasier's fault, but they haven't shown me any reason to buy it.

[Sarah 103]

@Lois Sandborne My theory based on pure speculation is that Lilith mellowed a tiny bit as she grew older. She was more willing to accept Freddie dropping out of Harvard. We have no idea when she accepted it (how much time it took), but clearly well before Frasier did.  

[baldryanr]

20 hours ago, Lois Sandborne said:

Sure, anything could've happened to them offscreen over 20 years. But there's no reason to believe it did. These writers are doing a ton of telling us that Freddy and Frasier were estranged, and that it was all Frasier's fault, but they haven't shown me any reason to buy it.

I'm assuming they won't dive too deeply into it moving forward since the two are in a decent place now, but it could have been Freddy growing resentful as he grew older.  Frasier moved across the country because he was in a rut - sure he loved his son, but he also ditched him.  Heck, if the original premiered today a whole lot of people would condemn him as a selfish jackass who didn't deserve to be a father.

[wendyg]

On 11/3/2024 at 5:01 AM, shapeshifter said:

Having not watch Frasier in its original run, I never knew that Dan Butler (Bulldog) is gay IRL. That sure puts a whole different twist on his character's Male Chauvinist persona. 

AIUI all the male regulars on the original show were gay except Grammer and the dog.

[Sarah 103]

20 hours ago, wendyg said:

AIUI all the male regulars on the original show were gay except Grammer and the dog.

I looked into this because I was curious. I would say you are correct and this is mostly true. John Mahoney is a bit of a question mark. He never came out and was an incredibly private person when it came to his personal life. 

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I looked into this because I was curious. I would say you are correct and this is mostly true. John Mahoney is a bit of a question mark. He never came out and was an incredibly private person when it came to his personal life. 

I read that after his death some of his friends revealed that he was indeed gay and very private about it.

[AstridM]

On 11/5/2024 at 4:33 PM, baldryanr said:

True, but for most of the original run Freddie was a preteen.  According to this episode Freddie was 17 in 2006, so we didn't get to see those teenage years.  Then there was the dropping out of Harvard situation and they were distant for years. 

Of course, the big positive is how close Freddie was to Martin.  I don't think that would have happened if Frasier hadn't moved back to Seattle.

My favorite original Frasier episode is “High Holidays,” with goth teenage Freddie! 😁 I’ll never forgive them for replacing the original Freddie 😢

On 11/5/2024 at 9:59 PM, Yeah No said:

I tend to agree. There are positive moments on this show but just as many are cringeworthy and a lot of people online still don't like the casting of older Freddy, me included. He's a little more palatable now that he's found his niche and isn't as surly and unhappy with his father, but his whole story is clunky and the way it's done is not convincing me that the Freddy we knew as a kid would ever be this Freddy. And why they didn't cast the original actor as Freddy is a big trade secret. Some speculate that the actor might have turned it down. I don't know if I believe that. Looking at photos of him now he would have made the perfect older Freddy. He's much better looking as an adult but he's not the handsome fox that Jack Cutmore Scott is. And that takes me totally out of it. It's just not believable.

One thing that made original Frasier great is that even though Niles never existed on Cheers we could totally believe he was Frasier's brother. There is no way I would believe this Freddy is Frasier's son. And much of that is based on having seen him as a child on the original show and already knowing what he was like. His lines and his entire persona just don't follow from what we already know. Another similar example that was well done was the casting on "Young Sheldon" where we see Sheldon's siblings as kids. We already met them a couple of times on "Big Bang Theory" as adults but we could totally believe that the kids they cast were them as kids, not just in appearance but in character too.

Yeah, this new Freddie is growing on me a bit, but I just can’t truly accept him.