Retro B&B: When the Beautiful Were Also Bold

[Hiyo]

Three consecutive episodes from 1996, for those interested:

Edited September 26, 2022 by Hiyo

[TessHarding2]

Can anyone help? I've only watched since 2010. I love watching the old shows on the channel above. Full shows with good quality!

I don't know about all the storylines back then. I watched Sally Spectra and Clark, saw how they were married, saw how was a happy go lucky schemer - and then - Clark mentions "the baby".

The what?  Was Sally pregnant by Clark and she gave birth to the baby? And who's the baby now? Thank you.

[Runningwild]

Am I the only one wondering what happened to TK’s hand? Did I miss something?

[Soapy Goddess]

1 hour ago, Runningwild said:

Am I the only one wondering what happened to TK’s hand? Did I miss something?

He mumbled something about trying to cut something (and obviously missed). 

[Hiyo]

Quote

The what?  Was Sally pregnant by Clark and she gave birth to the baby? And who's the baby now? Thank you.

Yes, Clarke and Sally had a child together, Clarke "C.J." Garrison, Jr. Here are some bios  of him that you can read about. He was mainly on the show from 1991 to 2003 (with some SORASing in the early and mid 90s), and has appeared every once in a while since then.

[SweePea59]

Au revoir Pierre.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/nov/21/robert-clary-obituary

[TessHarding2]

I decided to watch the first season since the full episodes are on YT. I was really interested in seeing Stephanie and Eric's relationship.  I think I started watching in 2010 to see Jack Wagner but I didn't stick with the show. I never loved the shows so I hate watched as a dedicated soap viewer.  BUT - the old shows are quite something.  Just some observations. I'd love to hear yours. Mine include superficial stuff!

The years between 1987 and 2000 really were terrific. I didn't roll my eyes once.  The characters had a lot of development and had a lot to say - sometimes saying the same thing over and over - but still interesting.  The hair, makeup, jewelry and clothes had to be the best in the business.  Glamorama!  The men too.  Brooke's hair blinded me with it's lustre and shine. 

The show had no hero.  They made Ridge and Eric very flawed as leading men. I have no emotional attachment to Brooke or Taylor. Taylor was a true beauty but she was kind of boring and too weepy with Ridge.  Now what did they do to Brooke in the mid 2000's? She went from coiffed queen to a bag of rags. No makeup, always crying, nothing clothing.  What happened to her hair? She lost half of her head of hair and she's very thin and with awful botox brows it seemed.

Those seem to be the years with Nick and when Stephanie is calling her a tramp more than ever.  

I didn't like the James Warwick character. I see that he became involved with Sheila but I haven't seen it yet and probably won't.  I'm a classic GH watcher and at one point it looked like the GH actors took the boat over to B&B.  I liked Jack Hamilton as Taylor's father.  That actor had the two most beautiful daughter's on soap (Genie Francis and Hunter). I laughed when Nick Marone went to visit with the ill Felicia Forrester as he calls out "Felicia"? (as in Frisco & Felicia on GH).

I actually liked the three Thornes (not Ingo, the last one).  I'm usually so picky, but each Thorne had something.  Loved the singing Thorne with Macy.

I still need to wait for uploads to happen because I can't believe that Brooke actually fell hard for men other than Ridge, especially lusty, controlling Nick.  Then they flipped the original Waffle Man and had Ridge pursue Brooke - that was weird.

Hated Connor Davis (cause I hated that douchebag on GH), hated Grant Chambers and not sure why they made Brooke go after Thorne.

I really liked the romance between Brooke's Mom and Eric in the early years.  Stephanie was particularly delicious then.  She is the most compelling actress.

If anyone knows why the show changed so much around 2002 I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[sugarbaker design]

8 hours ago, TessHarding2 said:

The years between 1987 and 2000 really were terrific. I didn't roll my eyes once.  The characters had a lot of development and had a lot to say - sometimes saying the same thing over and over - but still interesting.  The hair, makeup, jewelry and clothes had to be the best in the business.  Glamorama!  The men too.  Brooke's hair blinded me with it's lustre and shine. 

The show had no hero.  They made Ridge and Eric very flawed as leading men. I have no emotional attachment to Brooke or Taylor. Taylor was a true beauty but she was kind of boring and too weepy with Ridge.  Now what did they do to Brooke in the mid 2000's? She went from coiffed queen to a bag of rags. No makeup, always crying, nothing clothing.  What happened to her hair? She lost half of her head of hair and she's very thin and with awful botox brows it seemed.

The show's heyday.  Two families, the Forresters and the Logans.  One rich, one working-class.  Character motivation so clear in every character.  I couldn't get enough.  I loved Brooke and Taylor back then, so it's esp sad to see what Brad Bell have done to those characters.  It's hard being a female on a Bell soap nowadays.

[SweePea59]

13 hours ago, TessHarding2 said:

I didn't like the James Warwick character. I see that he became involved with Sheila but I haven't seen it yet and probably won't.

Oh, I recommend watching. Especially if you don't like James.

[Anna Yolei]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:17 AM, TessHarding2 said:

If anyone knows why the show changed so much around 2002 I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Given William Bell passed away in '05 IIRC, I imagine he had turned over the reigns to Brad around this time. And boy, did it show. '03 gave us the introduction of Nick but other than that than the horrendous Ridge/Bridget monstrosity, that first year he was in charge was a huge nothingburger for story...and I would STILL find that to be an improvement over today's slop. :(

[Anna Yolei]

I'm about halfway through season 5  on the YT playlist and have some thoughts:

-the first 4 seasons were just *chef's kisses. Kinda got bored with Katie and Donna's thing with Rocco but the writing was great otherwise. Although Clarke Garrison is one of the biggest tools of a man ever created for this show, Liam Spencer included, and I am waiting for his comeuppance in season 6.

-Although speaking of Clarke, he had more romantic chemistry with Ridge than any woman they put him together with and Kristen and Margo had more chemistry with each other than Clarke

-i actually like early Bridge! I was surprised by this too! But then,this version of Ridge was able to crack a smile and make jokes. It was by far his best personality trait and I have no idea why they made him so dour after the recast :(

-I used to live Tridge in the 2000s when I first watched the show and didn't have the full backstory. Watching now, I can't say I'm really warming up to them now. I'll reserve judgement until after the St Thomas trip, which seems to be the thing that put the pairing over the top for many folks, but for now...Eh.

-I was not prepared for how little romantic chemistry Brooke and Eric have. It's not like I care about the age gap, although given his history w Beth that didn't help, but....egads. it definitely felt like a rush job of a pairing that they threw together because KKL was pregnant at the time than anything organic.

-God, I miss the Spectras so much :( I certainly feel like CJ at least should have a place on the show. In general, I miss the show not being so Forrester-centric and worshiping them as #FamilyGoals because they absolutely are NOT.

[sugarbaker design]

On 8/6/2023 at 3:30 PM, Anna Yolei said:

-God, I miss the Spectras so much :( I certainly feel like CJ at least should have a place on the show. In general, I miss the show not being so Forrester-centric and worshiping them as #FamilyGoals because they absolutely are NOT.

Ditto!

[Anna Yolei]

And also, I miss side characters not attached to any main family at all! Where are the Julie Delorians of today? Or the Rocco Carters (no relation to Sheila, but who knows maybe he'll end up as a long unknown relative too) or Darla Einsteins?

It's been baffling to me just on a practical level that Bell refuses to introduce any new blood to this show because every child born on the show since Hope is blood related to at least three other kids in their generation and she was born when I was in high school.

[Black Knight]

As much as I love side characters, and agree the canvas would really benefit from them, the absence of them is probably due to budgetary realities. B&B is a half-hour soap and consequently pulls in less ad revenue than the remaining hour-long soaps.

[CountryGirl]

I agree, @Black Knight. Budget is a huge factor and a limited canvas because of it being only 30 minutes. Plus, I think they like to recycle storylines thus the constant fixation on both ToDs because it's just easier - the lines write themselves. 

[backhometome]

Has BB always been a half hour show?

[Black Knight]

Yes, from the start.

[KerleyQ]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:59 AM, CountryGirl said:

the lines write themselves. 

I think Liam has had the same lines for the entirety of 2023, just cycling through Thomas, Finn, and Sheila's names, and swapping Hope/Beth with Steffy/Kelly. 

[Anna Yolei]

Okay, so I'm nearly done with season six and my God, Thorne and Macy are more exhausting and frustrating to watch than Bridge. I think they got married back in season 4 and had maybe three months together before they separated because Macy understandably was frustrated that Thorne would even considered she was in on stealing designs or something. In the interim, she had sex with Jake McClain once(1) time, got back with Thorne but still had some emotional ties. This leads to yet another separation for most of 1992, until she decides to move back just as Thorne invites Caroline's twin Karen to live with him and they have a stupid Three's Company ass living arrangement as Thorne does his best Liam Spencer impression of "Gosh, I can't choose and they decided to move in without we saying anything! ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯"

Speaking of giving Liam Spencer, apparently Thorne was gonna choose Macy but then based off one hug and kiss he saw with her abd Jake, rather than confront them or ask any questions at all, he decides to choose Karen. Even Ridge the waffle King asks him "Uh dude, WTF?" And giving that I'm aware that Macy and Thorne have a vow renewal ceremony in 1995, I assume I'm in for at least another two years of this nonsense, especially as this appears to be the catalyst for Macy's drinking problems and Thorne can't even give the barest ass lip service to being interested in Karen that Ridge gives Taylor.

All 5his shows is Thorne is no less trash than the rest of the men in his idiot family and makes it truly a head scratcher when Macy decides that Brooke was still her enemy long after she and Thorne divorced...although between Karen and her brief triangle with Donna over Thorne and/ Mick Whatshisface played by that guy from Grease, she's never been much of a girl's girl, even by B&B's standards. But I do wish they had just recast either time Bobbie Eakes left the show and continued to let Macy thrive as an owner of Spectra or brought her into the Marone fold after Nick was introduced. 

Other highlights of season 6:

-Taylor's brother Zack, who was never mentioned again after running off with Felicia...if they need to expand the case, maybe bring him back. Maybe he'll have a daughter as Steffy has run out of cousins from the Forrester side to main or kill lo

-SHEILA IS SMART IN THIS! And even knowing how unhinged she is, the way KB plays her in the early days, I can't be fully sure if she's sincere about changing or not. It's a refreshing change from the way they depict her now.

-The ToD 1.0 has started and isn't entirely tiresome yet. Bell was really playing to both fanbases here and I can see why Tridge and Bridge have the dedicated fanbase they did. That said, I'll never stop wishing that either of them had walked away from Ridge much, much sooner.

-Although Sally was a fool for thinking a business agreement if a marriage proposal was ever gonna blossom into true love, it was still satisfying to see her get the drop on him and drum him outta her life. I know he was back at Spectra by the time I started watching in the early 2000s, so I assume his hot shot career never took off like he expected it would and he'll be more humble when he does return.

[Sunrain]

Hi! New to the board. I have been rewatching B&B episodes after Joanna Johnson's return as Karen. What really interested me besides playing a character vastly different her twin sister Caroline was JJ's surprising chemistry with Peter Brown (Blake), despite their huge age gap of 25-6 years. Karen and Blake could have worked as a couple if TPTBs hadn't reduced her to the unrealistically love-struck girl for the Forrester brothers or Blake was able to overcome his own demon - obsession with Taylor. 

Edited March 16 by Sunrain

[Anna Yolei]

Welcome!

I dunno that I was into the Black and Caroline thing, but I do think it sucks that Blake was the first of any characters ruined to prop Ridge up as his insanity for Taylor ramped up.

[Palimelon]

I liked the Macy/Thorne/Karen triangle. The food fight they end up having was just dumb but fun at the same time, which pretty much sums up this show.

[Anna Yolei]

On a related tangent, Macy and Karen are the only two women in all of B&B history to get past a fued for a man to because actual friends. Such a shame they killed Macy off a second time cuz they could've had them become pal pals when Karen came out and actually be believable ;)

[Palimelon]

Killing off Macy a second time - especially so soon after they resurrected her! - was just a dumb idea.

[TessHarding2]

Would anyone mind answering these basic questions?

1. Did something specific set off the hatred between a young Rick Forrester and Ridge?

2. What was the point of Amber? Because my ears can't stop ringing from the sound of her voice.  (I've been watching Season 15) And Stephanie likes her!

3.  Grant Chambers - what was his purpose? Did Brooke care passionately or was he another man to help her forget Ridge? 

4. Nick Marone - I think he was tougher on Brooke than any of her men.  Anyone else?

(I have no attachment to any character but Brooke's the one I've seen the most)

Well, I'd say I care most about Stephanie. Acting chops and timeless beauty!

thanks!

[SweePea59]

8 hours ago, TessHarding2 said:

2. What was the point of Amber?

Her original point was a way to bring back Sheila. She was Sheila's roommate in the desert after Mary was born and Sheila was exiled from LA. Sheila was saving her breastmilk in a mini fridge. Amber was an artist who was always sketching. (Not a clothing designer or even wannabe at this point.) Sheila convinced her to apply for the position of babysitter for Rick and Bridget. And apparently Bell got a big hard-on for Amber and she ate the show for years. I had to tune out because she was so unbearable. Especially when she played her dark haired identical twin. A true low for the show.

8 hours ago, TessHarding2 said:

Well, I'd say I care most about Stephanie. Acting chops and timeless beauty!

When Stephanie's mother, Ann, played by the magnificent Betty White, was on, is when I cared about Stephanie. Ann was the most hateful character. She made me have sympathy for Stephanie. I had no idea that Betty White, with her amazing comedic timing and chops, could play such a hateful villain so believably. 

[Palimelon]

1. I can't remember something specific, but it began in the late 90s, for quite a few reasons...Ridge wasn't a fan of Amber, and also Rick became more involved with FC and Ridge most likely saw him as a threat. But then again in the late 90s and onwards Ridge and Thorne also were suddenly also borderline enemies who hated each other, rather than two loving brothers who would occasionally disagree.

2. Amber did the eat the show from 1998 to around 2000 or 2001. Yeah, it wasn't the best period for me either, even though there was other stuff happening. At some point though in 2000 or 2001 the show (for me anyway) course corrected and it felt less like The Amber Show and more like Bold and the Beautiful.

But the twin thing was kinda dumb.

3. I always felt like Grant was just another factor thrown into the Brooke/Ridge/Taylor triangle. Brooke may have been fond of him, but she never truly loved him, not the way she loved Ridge or Nick or even Thorne. He did have some interesting storylines though, like when Brooke put him in charge of FC and everyone there hated him, and we did get a good "Who shot Grant?" story out of it. He then marries Macy after divorcing Brooke, and the show killed him off. Too bad. Like Connor, he had lots of potential that the show didn't use to it's full extent.

4. Tougher how?

[Anna Yolei]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:03 AM, Palimelon said:

But then again in the late 90s and onwards Ridge and Thorne also were suddenly also borderline enemies who hated each other, rather than two loving brothers who would occasionally disagree.

Yeah, that's something I noticed too. As Winsor Harmon was the only Thorne I knew (I don't claim that other guy who was here for six months in 2019 or whatever), I only ever saw that rivalry 

And while Stephanie absolutely has a soft spot for Ridge, it was pretty obvious that she cared about all her children in her own overbearing way. I mean, Stephanie went as far as confessing to and going to jail to ensure Thorne didn't go to jail for shooting Ridge! And Eric absolutely valued all his kids' contributions and never thought less of Thorne working in logistics until they needed some BS rivalry in 2004.

But hey, it's not the most egregious retcon as of two weeks ago, so... ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[Palimelon]

Quote

But hey, it's not the most egregious retcon as of two weeks ago, so...

I haven't been keeping up with the show lately, so dare I ask? lol

[nkotb]

6 hours ago, Palimelon said:

I haven't been keeping up with the show lately, so dare I ask? lol

Luna, I assume. She went from sticky sweet to baaaaaaad girl in a nanosecond. 

[Palimelon]

An episode circa September, 1995. YT won't let me embed the video, so here is the link to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgY5u4n9jLw&ab_channel=BoldandBeautifulClub

[TessHarding2]

On 9/2/2024 at 10:03 AM, Palimelon said:

1. I can't remember something specific, but it began in the late 90s, for quite a few reasons...Ridge wasn't a fan of Amber, and also Rick became more involved with FC and Ridge most likely saw him as a threat. But then again in the late 90s and onwards Ridge and Thorne also were suddenly also borderline enemies who hated each other, rather than two loving brothers who would occasionally disagree.

2. Amber did the eat the show from 1998 to around 2000 or 2001. Yeah, it wasn't the best period for me either, even though there was other stuff happening. At some point though in 2000 or 2001 the show (for me anyway) course corrected and it felt less like The Amber Show and more like Bold and the Beautiful.

But the twin thing was kinda dumb.

3. I always felt like Grant was just another factor thrown into the Brooke/Ridge/Taylor triangle. Brooke may have been fond of him, but she never truly loved him, not the way she loved Ridge or Nick or even Thorne. He did have some interesting storylines though, like when Brooke put him in charge of FC and everyone there hated him, and we did get a good "Who shot Grant?" story out of it. He then marries Macy after divorcing Brooke, and the show killed him off. Too bad. Like Connor, he had lots of potential that the show didn't use to it's full extent.

4. Tougher how?

Thank you everyone for answering my questions.

I thought Nick was tough on Brooke because he seemed to push hard on things he wanted.  He didn't let her get away with anything from the shows I've seen. 

 

[Anna Yolei]

23 hours ago, TessHarding2 said:

 

I thought Nick was tough on Brooke because he seemed to push hard on things he wanted.  He didn't let her get away with anything from the shows I've seen. 

I wouldn't say "tough" per se, but I do think he challenged Brooke in ways no other man ever truly did.

He's also the only man Brooke ever left Ridge for to go chase after once she had gotten her "destiny so there's that. Nick was perhaps his toughest towards Brooke after marrying Taylor, and even for as little as I cared for Nick's character at the time, he certainly never  attempted to lead Brooke on, unlike Ridge, and called her out for running to him after their even-for-B&B messy divorce.

[Palimelon]

I liked the Brooke/Nick pairing, to be honest.

[TessHarding2]

On 11/1/2024 at 6:55 PM, Palimelon said:

I liked the Brooke/Nick pairing, to be honest.

Me too.  I followed Jack Wagner to B&B a few years after he went on the show.

On 11/1/2024 at 6:36 PM, Anna Yolei said:

I wouldn't say "tough" per se, but I do think he challenged Brooke in ways no other man ever truly did.

He's also the only man Brooke ever left Ridge for to go chase after once she had gotten her "destiny so there's that. Nick was perhaps his toughest towards Brooke after marrying Taylor, and even for as little as I cared for Nick's character at the time, he certainly never  attempted to lead Brooke on, unlike Ridge, and called her out for running to him after their even-for-B&B messy divorce.

You nailed it. I remember Brooke always pawing Nick's face. Both hands on his face with loads of passion. 😆