S04.E03: Halloween 4:The Witch

[Neptune]

“Halloween 4: The Witch” – The ghosts, seeking some excitement during a low-key Halloween, join Patience (Mary Holland) in putting Sam on a witch trial.  October 31

WRITTEN BY: Joe Port and Joe Wiseman

DIRECTED BY: Katie Locke O’Brien

[Neptune]

https://www.tvinsider.com/gallery/ghosts-season-4-halloween-episode-photos/#2

[Neptune]

 

[Neptune]

 

[Neptune]

https://bleedingcool.com/tv/ghosts-season-4-cbs-drops-5-new-halloween-4-the-witch-sneak-peeks/

[ams1001]

I guess it hasn't occurred to them that some of the stuff in this house might be worth a lot of money and maybe they should get it appraised before selling it at a yard sale...?

"Is this made for penguins or out of penguins."
"Both."

...the others?

Edited November 1 by ams1001

[phalange]

I have so many questions about Hetty’s penguin leashes made out of penguins. And it doesn’t surprise me at all that Stone Sam ended up being a statue Hetty bought frivolously then forgot about.

Patience is returning to the dirt…to be with the others? Uh, that sounds ominous. Other Puritans? Other random ghosts who were also lost in the dirt?

[DanaK]

Enjoyable episode and I liked they went a different way with a Halloween episode

Pete’s deadpan “Because I can” retort as he was leaving with Jay was hilarious in the moment

There are others in the dirt with Patience? Are they friend or dangerous? Or strictly her imagination?

I figured Patience would leave eventually but that was sooner than I expected 

Edited November 1 by DanaK

[Annber03]

...okay, Patiene's parting words at the end there...that sounds...ominous...

Dear god, this episode was insane in the best way. I'm going to need to watch it again, 'cause I know there were some jokes and moments that I totally missed. I don't know what made me laugh more, Patience danding to that Ozempic commercial music and Isaac threatening to tell the others about it, Jay being like, "OH MY GOD I SOLD MY WIFE!", Mrs. Farnsby making her intentions with the table VERY clear, or each new piece of information we learned about Hetty and all the treasures in her house and whatnot. 

And the guy who wanted to blow up the statue. He needs to hang out with Picke Guy, LOL. 

I also loved all the ghosts' various reasons for why they did/did not think Sam was a witch. And Isaac just stirring the pot because he doesn't want to get on Patience's bad side, which, considering she held him captive in the dirt, is understandable :p. Though it was a kick to see him and Patience genuinely bond...over reality TV. 

I do love how Trevor and Isaac both kind of wound up helping to resolve everything, though - Trevor helping to narrow down where the statue was so Jay (and Pete!) could go find it and bring it hime, and Isaac getting Patience to cool her heels with the mention of the commercial XD (that flashback). 

And the ending was nice, too, with the little moment between Sam and Jay :). Even when they try to have a low key Halloween it still winds up being bonkers :p. I'm glad they still got to have some chaotic fun - I love how this show does their Halloween episodes, they're always so entertaining. 

Now to see what exactly Patience meant with that "others" comment...

[ams1001]

42 minutes ago, DanaK said:

I figured Patience would leave eventually but that was sooner than I expected 

With the reference to "the others" I suspect we haven't seen the last of her.

 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Was Román Zaragoza (Sas) off filming something else?  I feel like he would have known that the statue wasn't really Sam.  Did Patience herself actually believe that she had this previously unknown power?

Sam really did look lovely in that dress.  Empire waist dresses are also a great way to camouflage a very newly post-partum body, and I'm betting that's why it was chosen.  The Regency period, from which that dress dates, was more than 70 years before Hetty's time, so unless Hetty also wore it to a costume party, it wasn't from her wardrobe.

Edited November 1 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Chit Chat]

53 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I do love how Trevor and Isaac both kind of wound up helping to resolve everything, though - Trevor helping to narrow down where the statue was so Jay (and Pete!)

Seems like Trevor is getting faster at using the keyboard, which in this case was a good thing! 

Knowing that Patience had company in the "ditch" creeps me out, but I'm also glad that she wasn't alone that whole time.  

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

I guess it hasn't occurred to them that some of the stuff in this house might be worth a lot of money and maybe they should get it appraised before selling it at a yard sale...?

Exactly!  You'd think that Hetty would've been up in Sam's face over this yard sale, so that didn't make much sense that she didn't seem to know much about it until it was happening.  Overall, it was a fun episode.  

[Kip Hackman]

All of Thorfinn's lines were gold. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, DanaK said:

I figured Patience would leave eventually but that was sooner than I expected 

46 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

With the reference to "the others" I suspect we haven't seen the last of her.

Excellent Patience plot resolution by the writers!!

 

 

37 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did Prudence herself actually believe that she had this previously unknown power?

I'm pretty sure Patience kept turning it around by saying that it was the ghosts who turned Sam to stone with their verdict of witchcraft.

 

 

38 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Sam really did look lovely in that dress.  Empire waist dresses are also a great way to camouflage a very newly post-partum body

Yes. And Sam looks 10 years younger since she came back from maternity leave.

 

32 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

Seems like Trevor is getting faster at using the keyboard, which in this case was a good thing! 

It makes sense and is necessary to give the show room to breath with regards to Jay's interactions with the ghosts.

[PaulE]

I had a feeling Sam hadn't really been turned to stone--that would have been too easy!  I, too, wondered why Hetty would have bought the dress Sam was wearing because it would have been completely out of fashion when Hetty was alive.  Though I could understand why Hetty might have been attracted to it, since she'd have been tightly laced in her own dress while Empire dresses didn't, I believe, require corsets, so it was one of the few periods in history when women were able to move and breathe properly.

Although blood dripping from the walls is undoubtedly an unpleasant power, I'm not sure why the other ghosts were so afraid to cross Patience even before they thought she could turn livings to stone (unless it was because she gives off vibes of being a full-on borderline psycho).  I'm glad she wasn't able to do that--it would have made her too powerful, and Jay and Sam would have had to go around living in constant fear.  I suspect she's not gone forever but will show up every few episodes the way Nigel and Nancy do.  I've been wondering whether she'd have known the pervy Puritan ghost at the Farnsby house.  He changed his outlook on things when he didn't go directly to heaven; too bad that didn't happen to Patience, though her dancing makes me think she'll continue to loosen up a bit as she continues to interact with the others.

Edited November 4 by PaulE

[shura]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I guess it hasn't occurred to them that some of the stuff in this house might be worth a lot of money and maybe they should get it appraised before selling it at a yard sale...?

Par for the course for these two business owners with zero business sense.  You’d think they would learn from giving away that valuable Prohibition whiskey, but no.  Can’t wait to see them run the restaurant.

4 minutes ago, PaulE said:

I, too, wondered why Hetty would have bought the dress Sam was wearing because it would have been completely out of fashion when Hetty was alive. 

She liked waving the wooden paddle.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I guess it hasn't occurred to them that some of the stuff in this house might be worth a lot of money and maybe they should get it appraised before selling it at a yard sale...?

They have a pretty consistent history of stupid financial decisions, so it tracks.

I enjoyed this episode so much more than last week's, despite it being yet another Patience episode.  I'm glad she has been dispatched with; I get that she'll be back from time to time (with others), and I'm fine with that as it's how it should be.  Three episodes in a row with her playing a major role is not; the actor just does not have it.

I even liked it better than the first episode.  I liked that one, but it was more season three quality than seasons one and two, while this felt old school, chock full of great moments:

Jay re. Patience and Halloween:  "She is going to lose her Satan-hating mind"

Hetty after asking what $6 is in today's dollars:  "That is a genuine question; as a woman I wasn't allowed to study math"

The return of "Founding Farter"

It's the same cops from the first Halloween when Thor set the gazebo on fire.

"Oh my god, I sold my wife!"

Thor's casual reaction to everything, like wishing Statue Sam luck in her new home and encouraging Trevor to click on more videos after they figure out the buyer is going to "kaboom" the statue

The Vietnam vet:  "I fought for this man's right to marry a statue."

Isaac blackmailing Patience (and, OMG, her dancing to diabetes med commercial)

Hetty and Elias buying random stuff at auction just because they liked waving the paddle

Alberta still having no time for Pete flirting with her (when he said he liked her humming power)

Even simple things like Hetty's "I have never seen this thing in my life, or since".  It's comfortable, familiar, and funny.

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, Bastet said:

It's the same cops from the first Halloween when Thor set the gazebo on fire.

I loved that callback. I said this elsewhere, but you think they and the coroner ever get together and talk about that weird couple who lives in the mansion :p? 

[kathyk2]

This episode was hilarious! If I were Sam I would be mad at Isaac for agreeing with Patience and getting most of the ghosts to agree with them. Sass would have been the voice of reason so that's why he wasn't there. Flower was so funny thinking that they were selling the yard. I'm sure Patience will be back. I wondered where Sam's Dad was I thought he was staying for a while.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Patience (and, OMG, her dancing to diabetes med commercial)

I am now imagining that her longing to dance again to the Ozempic commercial is what will bring Patience back at some point. 

[Annber03]

12 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Sass would have been the voice of reason so that's why he wasn't there.

On the one hand I agree with this, on the other hand, he does have a penchant for mischief and does love him some drama, so...:p. 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, kathyk2 said:

I wondered where Sam's Dad was I thought he was staying for a while.

I don't remember any indication of that, although I disliked last week's episode so did not re-watch.  I thought they just committed to rebuilding a relationship, not that he was going to extend his stay in that particular moment.

[HelloooKitty]

Hetty was pretty handsy (for her) with Trevor!

[Katy M]

I never once thought that statue was Sam,but did wonder where she had disappeared to for so long.

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Did Patience herself actually believe that she had this previously unknown power?

She didn't seem to think she had much to do with it.  Said it was the verdict and the wrath of God.

[Harvey]

Oh my god, this episode was like crazy good!? Like above average.

I like that the actor playing Jay got the opportunity to do a more dramatic moment when he thought he killed Sam, that was a good scene. And Patience was so fun! Too bad she leaves, I will miss her.

Everyone ragging on Alberta about how lame her power is is really fun too.  "go hum about it".. HAHAHA 🤣

[shura]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I am now imagining that her longing to dance again to the Ozempic commercial is what will bring Patience back at some point. 

I am imagining Isaac seeing that Corona commercial and losing it.  Wonder if he will miss the mustache.

 

[proserpina65]

Sam looked lovely in her costume.  I don't buy that it was Hetty's gown, though.  It was from too early a period for Hetty.  (Unless I misunderstood what she said, which is completely possible.)

14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

"Is this made for penguins or out of penguins."
"Both."

That was my favorite line from an episode full of good lines.  I enjoyed this episode much more than the previous two.  Although I did miss Sass.  Imagine the snark he could've brought to the yard sale.

13 hours ago, ams1001 said:

With the reference to "the others" I suspect we haven't seen the last of her.

 

I'm thinking she might be a recurring character who turns up now and then - presumably with the others - but isn't around all the time.

13 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Empire waist dresses are also a great way to camouflage a very newly post-partum body, and I'm betting that's why it was chosen. 

They're also good for those of us who do not have small waists but do have large busts.

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

Isaac blackmailing Patience (and, OMG, her dancing to diabetes med commercial)

At least it wasn't the Jardiance one, lol.

 

[iMonrey]

I thought Sam was playing a Halloween trick on all of them, except it would have meant Patience was in on it and maybe that was the twist. So the actual resolution was a bit of a letdown for me. Overall though it was a pretty good episode.

6 hours ago, Harvey said:

Everyone ragging on Alberta about how lame her power is is really fun too.  "go hum about it".. HAHAHA 🤣

There was one instance where she could have put it to good use though, when they were trying to stop Jay from selling the statue. Her humming could have alerted him to the fact that something was wrong, maybe just long enough to give him pause so Trevor could text him.

11 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

Sass would have been the voice of reason so that's why he wasn't there.

Actually I'm pretty sure Sass wasn't there for budgetary reasons, which is why I hope we're through with Patience for awhile. Three Patience-centric episodes in a row is two too many IMO.

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

It's the same cops from the first Halloween when Thor set the gazebo on fire.

They were also in "Viking Funeral" when they set the rowboat on fire.

[HelloooKitty]

I also thought Sam had somehow gotten Patience to go with her on a prank. 

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Harvey said:

Everyone ragging on Alberta about how lame her power is is really fun too.  "go hum about it".. HAHAHA 🤣

42 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There was one instance where she could have put it to good use though, when they were trying to stop Jay from selling the statue. Her humming could have alerted him to the fact that something was wrong, maybe just long enough to give him pause so Trevor could text him.

That's been bugging me. It seems Alberta and her humming have been sidelined. I hope they resolve that this season. Maybe there will be a call back to this episode in which Sam, Jay, and Alberta come up with some humming code. It could be a hoot in many ways.

 

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

ctually I'm pretty sure Sass wasn't there for budgetary reasons, which is why I hope we're through with Patience for awhile. Three Patience-centric episodes in a row is two too many IMO.

Three too many.  I'm glad she's gone and I hope she stays gone.

[Bastet]

I loved all the commentary about going along with a witch trial you know is factually bullshit for entertainment and political alliance, and then freaking out when that has consequences.

Also Pete reading the sticker on the truck as "kaboom period com", Trevor explaining it's .com, meaning the internet, and Alberta reacting with her usual excitement because internet = cat videos.

[iMonrey]

I just think it's too much of a coincidence that there happened to be a statue nobody had ever seen before that looked exactly like Sam in that period dress. That's why I figured it had to be a prank.

Also, there's a ballroom at Woodstone? Which we have never seen, obviously. I'm not sure exactly where it would be, given the layout of the house.

[Chit Chat]

58 minutes ago, Bastet said:

and Alberta reacting with her usual excitement because internet = cat videos.

I rewatched the episode because I always miss something the first go around! 

When Jay was figuring out who the Kaboom man was, he was zooming in and out on his phone, and Alberta ran towards him excitedly yelling "he's doing the finger pinch thing!"  I think that's when Pete made the comment of "kaboom period com!" 

Alberta needs to come up with a good prank to get even with Thor for his constant 'ugly tiny hat' comment to her!

 

 

[shura]

17 hours ago, Bastet said:

Hetty after asking what $6 is in today's dollars:  "That is a genuine question; as a woman I wasn't allowed to study math"

Fun fact (possibly not for people who wear small ugly hats) courtesy of in2013dollars period com - in today’s dollars that would be 185 bucks and change.  That’s probably reasonable for a professionally stuffed raven.  At least some Woodstones had business sense.  On the other hand, she did get swindled with that last Chinese river dolphin that they… ate?!  Who eats a dolphin?  She was probably wearing that zipper dress at that dinner, too.

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

She didn't seem to think she had much to do with it.  Said it was the verdict and the wrath of God.

Curiously, she jumped right in and sentenced Sam to petrification without any apparent divine input.

So, in Patience’s Puritan legal framework, it is a crime to talk to ghosts, but being a ghost (instead of, I don’t know, going straight to heaven) is okay?  Huh.

28 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

When Jay was figuring out who the Kaboom man was, he was zooming in and out on his phone, and Alberta ran towards him excitedly yelling "he's doing the finger pinch thing!"  I think that's when Pete made the comment of "kaboom period com!" 

Oh, it was better than that.  Pete’s reaction was “that’s for zoom in. Dot com.” 😁

[docmatt]

1 hour ago, Chit Chat said:

 

Alberta needs to come up with a good prank to get even with Thor for his constant 'ugly tiny hat' comment to her!

 

 

In all fairness, the hat is tiny and ugly

[SoMuchTV]

^^^ I think you’re both right. I had to go back and look. Pete chased the car and reported the “kaboom period com” bumper sticker, then after Trevor found it and sent the link to Jay, that’s when Pete gave the “zoom in dot com” explanation. 

[Chit Chat]

3 minutes ago, docmatt said:

In all fairness, the hat is tiny and ugly

Aw, I like it!!  At least it's not a stinky pelt!  😅

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I loved all the commentary about going along with a witch trial you know is factually bullshit for entertainment and political alliance, and then freaking out when that has consequences.

I also liked how quickly everyone, save for Pete and Alberta, got on board with voting that Sam was a witch - a good way to highight how easily and how quiclkly it was for people to get on board with that kind of mentality and those rumors back when the witch trials were happening, and how flimsy their reasons for accusing people were besides. 

I also liked how easy it was, as a viewer, to get swept up in Jay's panic over getting the statue back and fearing he'd lost Sam for real. My mom actually went, "Oh, no!" when the statue broke and the head fell off.

Another moment that made me laugh - Sam talking to Jay at the yard sale, and going on about how they weren't going to bring anyone back from the dead this year...right as a woman walked by :p. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Also, there's a ballroom at Woodstone? Which we have never seen, obviously. I'm not sure exactly where it would be, given the layout of the house.

Yeah, that was an interesting reveal. Could've been a good place for them to have their ghost prom back in the first season. 

7 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I'm thinking she might be a recurring character who turns up now and then - presumably with the others - but isn't around all the time.

Yes, this. She wasn't going to be a series regular, she's just here to shake things up a bit for the ghosts in various ways - she was instrumental in kickstarting Isaac's "be a better person" thing that he's working on (or trying to work on, at least :p) right now. It does seem there are plans for her to return and shake things up somehow again in the future, if that ending is any indication, but what exactly will happen if and when she does...I guess we'll find out if and when the time comes. 

Also, given her connection to Isaac, Thor, and Sasappis, her appearance may prove instrumental somehow in revealing some other things about them and their pasts, both individually and as a trio. 

[possibilities]

Albeta can also talk to Alexa, right?

[SoMuchTV]

29 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Albeta can also talk to Alexa, right?

Yeah, that seemed like a major thing, communication-wise. Did they walk that back? Because it seems like it would be such an obvious solution that it would spoil the whole premise of the show. “Alexis, text Jay: there’s this major thing you need to know!”

[Harvey]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

Albeta can also talk to Alexa, right?

 

6 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Yeah, that seemed like a major thing, communication-wise. Did they walk that back? Because it seems like it would be such an obvious solution that it would spoil the whole premise of the show. “Alexis, text Jay: there’s this major thing you need to know!”

That was product placement. They will bring it back when amazon pays again.

[Skooma]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Albeta can also talk to Alexa, right?

 

9 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Yeah, that seemed like a major thing, communication-wise. Did they walk that back? Because it seems like it would be such an obvious solution that it would spoil the whole premise of the show. “Alexis, text Jay: there’s this major thing you need to know!”

Yeah that was a wrong turn in the writing and went way too far and tipped the balance of the show totally out of whack.  You can't have it too easy to communicate with Jay or there would never be any drama like in this episode.  Glad they haven't gone back to that overpowered power.

I will miss Patience and hope for her return sooner than later.  Same with Nigel.  Some recurring ghosts work well and some don't.  Nancy has been a big plus as a recurring one too. 

But Carol hasn't and Crash was a basic fail and made into a very seldom recurring one quickly as was the annoying teenage ghost in the attic.  Go with what is working and fade that which isn't shows good show running.

I wonder if the actor playing Sass had another gig he was doing or something personal came up for this episode.  They said in the past that they wouldn't ever rotate the regulars out like in early season 1 in episodes so it certainly wouldn't have anything to do with economics or anything like that.

[margol29]

I'm glad Patience is gone for now. She is good in small doses only.

[iMonrey]

18 hours ago, shura said:

So, in Patience’s Puritan legal framework, it is a crime to talk to ghosts, but being a ghost (instead of, I don’t know, going straight to heaven) is okay?  Huh.

It would be interesting to know how she rationalizes that. The Puritan next door seemed to throw all his convictions right out the window after becoming a ghost. I don't know what the typical Puritan belief was about ghosts. If they believed in purgatory maybe that's where she thinks she is.

3 hours ago, Skooma said:

Yeah that was a wrong turn in the writing and went way too far and tipped the balance of the show totally out of whack.  You can't have it too easy to communicate with Jay or there would never be any drama like in this episode.  Glad they haven't gone back to that overpowered power.

We haven't had any mention of Alexa since that one episode. I agree it's possible the writers realized it was a mistake. It's also possible Jay and Sam realized it gave the ghosts too much control over the house so they tossed the damn thing.

[shapeshifter]

22 hours ago, shura said:

So, in Patience’s Puritan legal framework, it is a crime to talk to ghosts, but being a ghost (instead of, I don’t know, going straight to heaven) is okay?  Huh.

Ooo. I hope this👆 becomes a line in a future episode, and you get credit for it, @shura❣️

[PaulE]

On 11/2/2024 at 12:27 PM, iMonrey said:

I don't know what the typical Puritan belief was about ghosts. If they believed in purgatory maybe that's where she thinks she is.

They definitely wouldn't have believed in Purgatory--that's strictly a Roman Catholic doctrine which they'd firmly have rejected.  You either went straight to heaven or straight to hell.  But obviously anyone who has religious beliefs accepts the idea of the supernatural, so they probably were open to the possibilities of spirits coexisting with livings on earth.  Why the ghosts would be there rather than in heaven or hell might have been an issue they were never able to resolve, though I imagine they might be inclined to consider them demons more than anything else.  We've already seen that anything Patience doesn't understand or hasn't seen before is immediately considered to have come from the devil

But you raise an interesting question about how Patience is reconciling her beliefs with her current state of reality.  You'd think she'd have gone the way of the Farnsby ghost--and she's had all those years to think about it--but that doesn't seem to be the case.  If it were me, I think I'd be pretty conflicted by this point.

 

On 11/2/2024 at 8:36 AM, Skooma said:

You can't have it too easy to communicate with Jay or there would never be any drama like in this episode. 

I agree, though as someone suggested earlier, they could devise a sort of code with Alberta's humming for things like simple yes or no questions.  That's what I find odd about the canonical ghost lore in this series: they really can't interact with the material world.  Most of the time, when we think of ghosts, we imagine them being able to rap on tables, move objects around, etc.  That's usually how someone knows a house is haunted.  I remember an Abbott and Costello movie called "The Time of Their Lives" in which two Revolutionary War ghosts did just those things at a seance with livings who were trying to find out who they were and what they wanted.  But I guess if our ghosts had those abilities it would destroy a lot of the show's comedy, not to mention the plot lines.

Spoiler

We've been teased that Jay will be able to see the ghosts at some point, but I imagine it will be only temporary--enough so that they become real to him in a way they hadn't before, but not enough to remove the humor of his not being able to interact with them.

 

[Skooma]

35 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I don't recall that. I hope it's just my aging memory and not a spoiler.

It was a spoiler and shouldn't have been in the episode threads since I try to avoid spoilers for this show.  So I so was bummed out that a spoiler got into at least two episode threads so far. 

It would have been so much more fun for me NOT to know this and have been surprised.  I mean every time I see a TV ad for "Ghosts" I immediately mute or change channels to avoid any spoiler for the upcoming episode.  But I guess no mods around here, no protection from spoilers these days alas.

And it had better be a one episode thing or the show will be ruined totally and on it's way to cancellation.

Edited November 2 by Skooma

[ams1001]

34 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

It's been in the media for a while now, but I can understand how someone might've missed it!   I'm usually so far behind on stuff like this, but I heard it discussed with some of the interviews with the cast.  

I usually find out stuff like that from reading here. I don't really follow media unless I happen to come across it by accident.

[SoMuchTV]

Taking my comment on the above conversation to the Spoilers & Speculation thread (which is maybe where this whole conversation should go?)

Edited November 2 by SoMuchTV