S04.E03: Two for the Road

[Snapdragon]

3 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Kumail's abs will forever remind me of Hasan Minaj's rant about said abs:

NSFW language warning:

 

I have such a love/hate relationship with Hasan Minaj.  I find his comedy funny (and was disappointed that he didn't get the hosting gig on The Daily Show) but he seems like he'd be such a jerk in real life (along with his wife).

I also heavily dislike Zach Galifinakis and this role isn't helping matters.  (Not that any of this has much to do with the show, but my husband and I made it our goal to be more positive this month, so my celebrity hate has to go somewhere.  😂)

[Calvada]

I'm wondering how it can be that the FBI has taken over the investigation.  Where is the federal crime?  Homicide can be a federal crime if it takes place on federal land (such as a national forest, federal prison, etc.), if the person killed is a federal official or a employee, if it occurs during the course of a federal crime such as bank robbery or kidnapping, or if someone crosses state lines with the intent to commit murder.  That last option would only come into play if they know who the killer is and that they traveled to New York specifically to kill Charles or Sazz.  

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Calvada said:

I'm wondering how it can be that the FBI has taken over the investigation.  Where is the federal crime?  Homicide can be a federal crime if it takes place on federal land (such as a national forest, federal prison, etc.), if the person killed is a federal official or a employee, if it occurs during the course of a federal crime such as bank robbery or kidnapping, or if someone crosses state lines with the intent to commit murder.  That last option would only come into play if they know who the killer is and that they traveled to New York specifically to kill Charles or Sazz.  

The FBI got involved because Jan broke out of prison and killed a guard.

[shapeshifter]

43 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The FBI got involved because Jan broke out of prison and killed a guard.

So if/when the the Fibbies learn that Jan could not be the killer (maybe timing), does the case go back to Detective Williams?

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

So if/when the the Fibbies learn that Jan could not be the killer (maybe timing), does the case go back to Detective Williams?

I think that is what will happen, but it's a TV show. 

[Calvada]

By my reckoning, Jan can't be the killer, since Sazz was dead before Jan broke out.  Or do we think the police waited a few days before going to the home of the guy who was integral in sending Jan to prison?  

Escape from prison is a federal crime if the person is being held in a federal facility, or in a state facility pursuant to a federal order.  I don't see how Jan fits either of those.  There might be a federal UFAP warrant, but the investigation of Sazz's murder and the prison break would still be a local/state issue.  If there was evidence to show that Jan used interstate communications to hire someone to commit the murder, that would be a federal crime.  But then all that info would be provided to local law enforcement as part of a BOLO or APB and there would be a federal arrest warrant issued for her.

I realize this is done just so Det. Williams has a reason to give them information (to screw over the feds), but it's aggravating when they show the FBI take over a state investigation.

[chaifan]

I hope Loretta is not involved in the murder.  First, as someone pointed out above, that would make 2 girlfriends part of murders.  Second, last season was really about Loretta's backstory, there was nothing there to indicate a connection with the Westies or Sazz, so it would be weird to shoehorn this in.  I think the braids are a red herring.  I could see that being Sazz (or her identical cousin Helga).  Didn't the home movies of Sazz shown last episode have her with long blondish hair as a child?  But again, how/why would Sazz be living in NYC without Charles knowing?  But then, the recap had a snippet of Sazz saying something to Charles about her ham radio.  Was there one in her apartment in LA? 

I don't have a clue as to anything right now.  And I'm completely enjoying it that way! 

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Mabèl’s stylish pants… 😆

AREA — Cutout houndstooth wool-blend tweed wide-leg pants

 

Edited September 12 by Snazzy Daisy

[Yeah No]

On 9/10/2024 at 2:01 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Not sure how accurate the Squatter's Rights idea is, but Mabel putting herself in position to flush out the mysterious neighbor certainly shows how far she will go to protect Charles (and probably would do the same for Oliver.)  The scene with the three in that apartment was a nice moment.

Unfortunately it is a thing and if someone occupies a residence for 30 days even without the owner's knowledge or consent it can be very difficult to get them removed. I was once in this position with my father's apartment in NYC when he let a friend move in with him without my knowledge or consent and I owned the apartment by that time because he signed it over to me 15 years before that. It was just "luck" that the friend died before he did or I might have had a hell of a time getting them out. On top of everything they were also disabled. I am reading now that they are trying to pass bills to put limits on squatter's rights in NYC but nothing has been passed just yet.

It looks like Mabel intends to occupy the apartment long enough to claim squatter's rights and also flush out the occupant. But I thought those Westie apartments were rentals so if she squats it's not the occupant that would have to get her out but the owner of the apartment.

[Yeah No]

I suppose it's no coincidence that my father was in the Signal Corps in the Army and taught it in the Army Reserve School, plus that many former soldiers in the signal corps. later became ham radio operators. My father didn't consider himself a ham nut but he did have a ham radio license and knew a lot about it. I'm sure he knew about the tap thing as opposed to Morse code. Too bad he's not alive anymore or I'd pick his brain about all the clues this season regarding that stuff.  

Just some thoughts:

I do wonder how that pig was just living in that apartment alone. Was no one taking care of it? Did I miss something? Were the weird neighbors sitting the pig?

I still can't get over how in 2 episodes now someone asks the trio if they realize that Charles might have been the intended target and they all look shocked like deer in the headlights and you can hear crickets.

Also, I don't get making Eva Longoria's character (which is supposed to be herself) such an asshole. I don't love her but she's not THAT bad in real life!

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

So even though it seemed obvious that Eva was giving Mabel's name a more flattering twist with an acute accent over the (é), every time "Ma Bell" displayed in the captions, it was like Eva's character was being appropriately mocked.

I saw the é too but if that's there it would be pronounced with a long "a" sound or like "ay". So that would be weird.

Edited September 12 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

I think Bev Melon should be a suspect. And I'm side-eyeing the sudden visit from the cast members of the movie. Something about that feels like sending them there was timed to be a diversion to distract our trio away from figuring out who the murderer is. Not that they have anything to do with it or know that's what was being done. I don't think they do. And I'm beginning to think that Sazz was indeed the intended target.

Edited September 12 by Yeah No

[Affogato]

As far as the squatters rights go, someone is using the radio and feeding the pig. It is possible they are squatting too. 

[JenE4]

I am 90% certain that is Jane Lynch in the photo. The height, lankiness, and even skinny arms with stooped shoulders matches up. If you zoom in on the crossed out face, you can even see some of the features through the marker, such as the smile and glasses, which seem to be a different style than she wears when looking like Charles. The Perfect Strangers montage is a clue that this is Sazz’s cousin from “the old country.” Sazz also had a ham radio in her apartment because this is probably how they communicated with each other; likewise, cousin Helga is communicating with her family (in Germany? I don’t remember how we know it’s Germany unless we made the assumption of seeing the name Helga) whom we heard on the ham radio this episode back home. Like Balki Barktakumous (spelling?!?!) in Perfect Strangers was a sheep farmer back home, Sazz’s cousin was a pig farmer. This might also explain why Sazz was so often suddenly in the neighborhood visiting Charles, even though she lived across the country. She didn’t want to give up her cousin squatting there, and risk her getting kicked out, so she didn’t mention her. Heck, Dudenoff might even be another stunt double filming in Portugal, and that’s how Sazz knew his apartment would be free. Yet, back to the photo. I absolutely do NOT think the person in the photo is the killer because it’s way too early and obvious to show us a photo of the killer, but I do think we’ll soon be seeing Jane Lynch, playing her “Perfect Stranger” Sazz’s cousin, who will “Tap In” to help the gang solve her cousin’s murder.

Edited September 12 by JenE4

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I do wonder how that pig was just living in that apartment alone. Was no one taking care of it? Did I miss something? Were the weird neighbors sitting the pig?

45 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Heck, Dudenoff might even be another stunt double filming in Portugal, and that’s how Sazz knew his apartment would be free.

So, sort of a de facto timeshare apartment squat?
And if all of the squators are stunt doubles, maybe Hammy Faye Bakker is an animal actor?
Perhaps one or more of the Westies is getting paid to look after Hammy? 
Ooo. The name "Hammy" is even an adjective for an actor.
But it seems too weird if they're getting paid in tasty imported gourmet ham.

 

 

 

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, chaifan said:

Didn't the home movies of Sazz shown last episode have her with long blondish hair as a child?  But again, how/why would Sazz be living in NYC without Charles knowing?  But then, the recap had a snippet of Sazz saying something to Charles about her ham radio.

I was just thinking about that home movie and wanting to rewatch it.

When did Sazz mention a ham radio to Charles? (I forget a lot of things.)

10 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Mabèl’s stylish pants… 😆

AREA — Cutout houndstooth wool-blend tweed wide-leg pants

Sometimes I don't get fashion.

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think Bev Melon should be a suspect. And I'm side-eyeing the sudden visit from the cast members of the movie.

I don't think the appearance of Zach, Eugene, and Eva are significant re the murder, but I suspected Bev Melon from the start, mainly because her name is weird. Doesn't mean she's the killer, but I'm sure we'll discover something questionable about her.

[chaifan]

25 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

When did Sazz mention a ham radio to Charles? (I forget a lot of things.)

It was in the recap before this episode.  And I should clarify - it was imaginary friend dead Sazz, not alive Sazz. 

Are we going to find out that "tap in" has a different meaning, that Sazz's message is about ham radios, not doubling for Charles?

 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

As far as the squatters rights go, someone is using the radio and feeding the pig. It is possible they are squatting too. 

Great idea. It's interesting that the apartment is so unrenovated and empty. I wonder what the back story is there. Like how is that still in such a condition and if more than one person is squatting there how are they living if there's no evidence of them other than the pig and a radio? I'm thinking that apartment was used for a specific reason. Like the people may not even be real squatters who live there all the time but only at certain times and come with their own suitcase to live out of. Maybe they both were laying low after the murder and avoiding the place and left the Westie people to feed and clean up after the pig.

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

I am 90% certain that is Jane Lynch in the photo. The height, lankiness, and even skinny arms with stooped shoulders matches up. If you zoom in on the crossed out face, you can even see some of the features through the marker, such as the smile and glasses, which seem to be a different style than she wears when looking like Charles. The Perfect Strangers montage is a clue that this is Sazz’s cousin from “the old country.” Sazz also had a ham radio in her apartment because this is probably how they communicated with each other; likewise, cousin Helga is communicating with her family (in Germany? I don’t remember how we know it’s Germany unless we made the assumption of seeing the name Helga) whom we heard on the ham radio this episode back home. Like Balki Barktakumous (spelling?!?!) in Perfect Strangers was a sheep farmer back home, Sazz’s cousin was a pig farmer. This might also explain why Sazz was so often suddenly in the neighborhood visiting Charles, even though she lived across the country. She didn’t want to give up her cousin squatting there, and risk her getting kicked out, so she didn’t mention her. Heck, Dudenoff might even be another stunt double filming in Portugal, and that’s how Sazz knew his apartment would be free. Yet, back to the photo. I absolutely do NOT think the person in the photo is the killer because it’s way too early and obvious to show us a photo of the killer, but I do think we’ll soon be seeing Jane Lynch, playing her “Perfect Stranger” Sazz’s cousin, who will “Tap In” to help the gang solve her cousin’s murder.

I'm with you on it being Jane Lynch in the photo. I'm thinking the pigtails were a red herring to make us think it was Meryl S.'s character. And I also agree that even if it's not Jane, it's not the murderer. But I'm thinking it's Jane and maybe all the Ham radio people had a falling out with her and that's why her face is blacked out in the photo.

I also love your theory here about the apartment in general and have to think about that for a while.

Also, do we really know that Dudenoff is a man? I somehow don't remember if anyone mentioned it on the show.

[Yeah No]

8 minutes ago, chaifan said:

It was in the recap before this episode.  And I should clarify - it was imaginary friend dead Sazz, not alive Sazz. 

Are we going to find out that "tap in" has a different meaning, that Sazz's message is about ham radios, not doubling for Charles?

Yes, I've been thinking that the tap-in thing is about the tap code and ham radios. One reason people use them is to have private communications that can't be intercepted unless someone gets the frequency number they use to communicate. The fact that now the trio has "outed" themselves as having the frequency makes me wonder if they've blown their cover now and the hammy group will start communicating on a different frequency.

My mind is wondering how imaginary Sazz would be able to give Charles that info. about the ham radio unless he somehow knew it already. Unless she's really a ghost!

[Chit Chat]

52 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Sometimes I don't get fashion.

Me either!  Certain trends are lost on me.  😜

[cardigirl]

Interesting thoughts on here about Sazz's identical cousin, but I have blanked on when, if ever, Sazz mentioned an identical cousin. Or any relatives at all. I'm sure someone can refresh my memory.

I've been wondering about Sazz's phone. When the trio is trying to decide to head to LA, and Charles is hesitant because of Sazz, he suddenly gets a text from Sazz's phone saying she is back in LA to work with Bakula. It came as such an opportune time, I suspect that someone is listening in, like there may be a bug in the apartment. Clearly, someone was trying to drive them to go to LA. (To get them out of the way?) Someone also sent Lester a note about fixing the window in Charles' apartment, hoping to get rid of the bullet hole before the trio discovered it. There may be more than one person involved here. 

Just stray thoughts of mine.

 

[Affogato]

It is possible there are two Sazz and the not our Sazz was the one killed. Lots of herring. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

Great idea. It's interesting that the apartment is so unrenovated and empty.

The "so unrenovated and empty" apartment does seem to imply that a Westie (or Westie visitor) is being paid to look after Hammy and maybe even get or send ham radio messages (rather than there being a squatter).

Any chance that the ham radio will tie into a (or "the") podcast?

[Yeah No]

56 minutes ago, Affogato said:

It is possible there are two Sazz and the not our Sazz was the one killed. Lots of herring. 

I really like how you think!!!

Sazz may have had her own stunt double!

Edited September 12 by Yeah No

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

It is possible there are two Sazz and the not our Sazz was the one killed.

One thing that was mentioned in the last episode when Charles was 'seeing' Sazz was how she was a product of his subconscious.   It was mentioned several times.  I'm taking that as a sliver of hope that the Sazz he's seeing isn't a ghost and she's still alive.  

[paigow]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

Are we going to find out that "tap in" has a different meaning, that Sazz's message is about ham radios, not doubling for Charles?

That only makes sense if she wanted somebody OTHER than Charles to see the message...

[peeayebee]

 

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Interesting thoughts on here about Sazz's identical cousin, but I have blanked on when, if ever, Sazz mentioned an identical cousin. Or any relatives at all. I'm sure someone can refresh my memory.

Yeah, I'm getting confused now as to what was actually in the show and what has just been speculated here. 

As for the photo, I'm going to say the mystery person is Helga, whoever that is. Stereotypically, a Helga (German?) would have pigtails.

I'm also going to guess that the little pig is a red herring -- or a pink pig -- Helga's pet, and at least one of the Westies is taking care of it while she's gone. She could be Helga Dudenoff.

37 minutes ago, paigow said:

That only makes sense if she wanted somebody OTHER than Charles to see the message...

That's what I was just going to say. "Tap in" means something specific to Charles. As she lay dying, she's not going to write a message that's in a code he's unfamiliar with.

[Yeah No]

7 minutes ago, paigow said:

That only makes sense if she wanted somebody OTHER than Charles to see the message...

Yes or maybe she was sure that Charles would figure it out, OR it wasn't her that wrote the message and it was for someone else to see.

46 minutes ago, Chit Chat said:

One thing that was mentioned in the last episode when Charles was 'seeing' Sazz was how she was a product of his subconscious.   It was mentioned several times.  I'm taking that as a sliver of hope that the Sazz he's seeing isn't a ghost and she's still alive.  

Me too. I am not giving up hope that she's still alive. I'm hoping the Sazz twin/stunt double theory plays into this.

[JenE4]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Interesting thoughts on here about Sazz's identical cousin, but I have blanked on when, if ever, Sazz mentioned an identical cousin. Or any relatives at all. I'm sure someone can refresh my memory.

I've been wondering about Sazz's phone. When the trio is trying to decide to head to LA, and Charles is hesitant because of Sazz, he suddenly gets a text from Sazz's phone saying she is back in LA to work with Bakula. It came as such an opportune time, I suspect that someone is listening in, like there may be a bug in the apartment. Clearly, someone was trying to drive them to go to LA. (To get them out of the way?) Someone also sent Lester a note about fixing the window in Charles' apartment, hoping to get rid of the bullet hole before the trio discovered it. There may be more than one person involved here. 

Just stray thoughts of mine.

 

No, Sazz has not mentioned a cousin directly. I (and others) were speculating about “cousin Helga” based solely on the “Perfect Strangers” references this episode. For those unfamiliar with the program, it was a show from the 80s in which two long-lost cousins become roommates; the one cousin, Balki, was supposedly from a small fictional European village. We’re speculating that the “Perfect Stranger” cousin that will show up will be Sazz’s because that appears to be Jane Lynch in the crossed out photo, but rather than Jane being Sazz, she might come back playing her own cousin. And the name “Helga” was written on an airline ticket (LA to JFK) on Sazz’s desk episode 1, so more speculation that the person in the photo might be a cousin named Helga. Or not!! I don’t think I’ve ever been right about anything in the past 3 seasons, so I doubt I’ve cracked the case now, lol. Though, I don’t think we’re anywhere close to the murderer or motivation for murder yet, etc, so I think there’s at least a chance we’re on to something here, though pure speculation at this time.

[Snapdragon]

5 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Interesting thoughts on here about Sazz's identical cousin, but I have blanked on when, if ever, Sazz mentioned an identical cousin. Or any relatives at all. I'm sure someone can refresh my memory.

I've been wondering about Sazz's phone. When the trio is trying to decide to head to LA, and Charles is hesitant because of Sazz, he suddenly gets a text from Sazz's phone saying she is back in LA to work with Bakula. It came as such an opportune time, I suspect that someone is listening in, like there may be a bug in the apartment. Clearly, someone was trying to drive them to go to LA. (To get them out of the way?) Someone also sent Lester a note about fixing the window in Charles' apartment, hoping to get rid of the bullet hole before the trio discovered it. There may be more than one person involved here. 

Just stray thoughts of mine.

 

There's part of me that thinks we might be dealing with a team of murderers, instead of just one person.  Like one person shot Sazz, one removed her body, someone else used her phone.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Snapdragon said:

There's part of me that thinks we might be dealing with a team of murderers, instead of just one person.  Like one person shot Sazz, one removed her body, someone else used her phone.  

The Westies!
Or, given Sazz's Hollywood connections: The actors!

[LakeGal]

I just don't like Zach G.  I would be happy if he would just disappear.  

[roseha]

A lot to take in here!  You all are much better than I am at speculating at possibilities in this case.  I find the idea that Bev Melon is somehow involved intriguing.  I have to say that on the face of it right now I really don’t like the whole involvement of the doppelgänger actors, i think it’s really slowing down the story—-however it’s possible that this is fitting in with the whole theme of Sazz being Charles’ double and now the possibility that Sazz herself has a double?

Of the guest actors I only enjoyed Eugene Levy and agree that the scene with Richard Kind was hilarious.  Both Eva and Zach totally annoyed me even though they obviously were playing satiric versions of themselves.  I did love The Perfect Strangers theme sequence though and loved it being topped off by Una.

 Probably this will all come together later on but I hope we get back to the real trio next time.

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, roseha said:

A lot to take in here!  You all are much better than I am at speculating at possibilities in this case.  I find the idea that Bev Melon is somehow involved intriguing.

This show has had some wackadoodle murderers and motives but I'm wondering if Bev Melon staged a murder in the building because she wanted her actors to see our trio in action solving a "murder" as part of their prep. for the movie. The timing of the murder and sudden movie deal were a little close. The fake murder could have been carried out by a group or a single operator which could have included any or all of our current suspects/suspicious people. OR Bev could have had some beef with Sazz and actually had her murdered. Of course I like the former idea better.

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The Westies!
Or, given Sazz's Hollywood connections: The actors!

Could be!

All of Sazz's notes could be part of a grand scheme to drop "clues" for our trio to follow up on leading them to the people that helped stage the fake murder. Or she was suspicious about the Westies, etc. already for her own reasons hence all the notes. She might have suspected that something was going to happen. The notes may not even have been written by her, they could have been put there by other accomplices to the ruse to engage our trio. Maybe Sazz  isn't part of it but is being held hostage somewhere so she does appear to be dead. I don't know that I want to think that Sazz would be part of any ruse involving her fake death.

BUT as we all know is this really turns out to be a fake death, there will have to be a real murder somewhere in the building. If this were a fake murder it would be the biggest red herring ever created by the show.

Edited September 13 by Yeah No

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This show has had some wackadoodle murderers and motives but I'm wondering if Bev Melon staged a murder in the building because she wanted her actors to see our trio in action solving a "murder" as part of their prep. for the movie. The timing of the murder and sudden movie deal were a little close. The fake murder could have been carried out by a group or a single operator which could have included any or all of our current suspects/suspicious people. OR Bev could have had some beef with Sazz and actually had her murdered. Of course I like the former idea better.

Could be!

All of Sazz's notes could be part of a grand scheme to drop "clues" for our trio to follow up on leading them to the people that helped stage the fake murder. Or she was suspicious about the Westies, etc. already for her own reasons hence all the notes. She might have suspected that something was going to happen. The notes may not even have been written by her, they could have been put there by other accomplices to the ruse to engage our trio. Maybe Sazz  isn't part of it but is being held hostage somewhere so she does appear to be dead. I don't know that I want to think that Sazz would be part of any ruse involving her fake death.

BUT as we all know is this really turns out to be a fake death, there will have to be a real murder somewhere in the building. If this were a fake murder it would be the biggest red herring ever created by the show.

Maybe the murder hasn’t happened yet. 

[ofmd]

I'm all for Sazz having a relative looking exactly like her, if only because it might mean Jane could remain on the show in a not-dead, not-fidget-of-someone's-imagination way.

The Hollywood doubles don't work for me, even though I love Eugene Levy.

Kunal was really great in this.

ETA: A "cousin from the old country" could be from Bulgaria, where Sazz regularly went, allegedly to get implants or surgery or something...

The real Sazz having survived is a nice idea, but wouldn't they have done DNA testing on the remains? Would have to be a very identical twin...

Edited September 13 by ofmd

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This show has had some wackadoodle murderers and motives but I'm wondering if Bev Melon staged a murder in the building because she wanted her actors to see our trio in action solving a "murder" as part of their prep.

I like this theory, but like you, I don't like the idea of Sazz being a part of it.  It would be cruel of her to put Charles through the emotional wringer of thinking not only she's dead, but she was murdered and maybe he was the intended target. 

If the murder were of a new tenant who just moved in, and whom no one had an emotional attachment to, that would make sense.  Maybe they hold this idea for season 4...

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, ofmd said:

Kunal was really great in this.

I saw Kumail Nanjiani in a late-night interview last week. 
Combined with this episode, I surmise that he's always great.

I think I'd be okay with Sazz staying as a figment of Charles' imagination throughout the series. They established in the earlier seasons that he does have a habit of spending time in nostalgic reverie.

Apropos to nothing related to the plot (I don't think?) —
I was checking IMDb for cast name spellings and saw under "Additional Crew" that Jane Lynch has a stand-in.

 

3 minutes ago, chaifan said:

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This show has had some wackadoodle murderers and motives but I'm wondering if Bev Melon staged a murder in the building because she wanted her actors to see our trio in action solving a "murder" as part of their prep.

I like this theory, but like you, I don't like the idea of Sazz being a part of it.  It would be cruel of her to put Charles through the emotional wringer of thinking not only she's dead, but she was murdered and maybe he was the intended target. 

I agree with both of these 👆comments.
If true, maybe Sazz was actually kidnapped? Like maybe Bev Melon (Liz Lemon?) thought one of her flunkies was going to pay Sazz to go along with the hoax, but Sazz said nope because it would hurt Charles, so they wound up kidnapping her? Maybe the bullet was some sort of tranquilizer dart? 
Obviously I'm spitballing here.

[ofmd]

Hmmm... thinking again of DNA testing... If that was not possible with the ashes, Sazz could have dropped in that implant to get them on the wrong track. Maybe she is secretly working for the FBI, which would explain why they are involved (although I honestly think tptb just don't gif a fig about real life procedures with LE).

Cruel?

Sazz was dating Charles' murderous ex-girlfriend.

When Charles was apparently dying in a particularly slow, gruesome way, Mabel and Oliver found 20 more things they had to do before getting him into hospital.

M & O just recently left C alone in the apartment where they believed someone had tried to kill him.

(Hmmm... starting so see a pattern with M/O vs C!)

Just saying, irl these people would be awful friends!

The explanation for Sazz'... er, stunt could be that she was in danger and had to disappear, and only our trio of class-A detectives (cough) could figure it out.

Edited September 13 by ofmd

[Chit Chat]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This show has had some wackadoodle murderers and motives but I'm wondering if Bev Melon staged a murder in the building because she wanted her actors to see our trio in action solving a "murder" as part of their prep. for the movie.

I like all of the different theories floating around!  Thing is, if it turns out that Sazz really is dead, I'm going to be very sad and disappointed.  😭 I wouldn't put it past Bev to have done something so dastardly though!

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

Maybe the murder hasn’t happened yet. 

Exactly. Maybe Howard's cadaver dog will be murdered. Or Hammy the pig! 🐖🐷

Speaking of Howard's dog, the appearance of a cadaver dog at just the right time for them to use one is also suspicious in my opinion. Either Howard's in on it (which I doubt) or someone made sure he got that specific dog.

[Yeah No]

25 minutes ago, ofmd said:

Hmmm... thinking again of DNA testing... If that was not possible with the ashes, Sazz could have dropped in that implant to get them on the wrong track. Maybe she is secretly working for the FBI, which would explain why they are involved (although I honestly think tptb just don't gif a fig about real life procedures with LE).

Yup I floated that theory a week or more ago myself. The implant in the incinerator was a way to get them to believe they were Sazz's ashes and not attempt testing the DNA. But some objected to that idea because how would Sazz just happen to have a duplicate of that implant with her in NYC? To that I'd say if this were a planned thing she would have been able to get one in advance and have it with her for the ruse. Or if she wasn't part of a ruse the organizer of the ruse would have made sure to get one of those in advance.

I like the theory that maybe Sazz's working with or for the FBI and that she may have been in danger and had to disappear. That is an alternate idea that Bev Melon would probably not have organized, but maybe others helped her.

Edited September 13 by Yeah No

[txhorns79]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This show has had some wackadoodle murderers and motives but I'm wondering if Bev Melon staged a murder in the building because she wanted her actors to see our trio in action solving a "murder" as part of their prep. for the movie. The timing of the murder and sudden movie deal were a little close.

That's an interesting idea.  The only thing that would give me pause is that I don't know if Sazz would agree to something that cruel unless she was forced to do so. 

[shapeshifter]

18 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Speaking of Howard's dog, the appearance of a cadaver dog at just the right time for them to use one is also suspicious in my opinion. Either Howard's in on it (which I doubt) or someone made sure he got that specific dog.

I assumed that was just plot contrivance, but maybe it is something more…

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

That's an interesting idea.  The only thing that would give me pause is that I don't know if Sazz would agree to something that cruel unless she was forced to do so. 

Yeah I don't like thinking she'd be a part of the ruse. I also don't like thinking that she's really dead, so I'm leaning toward her being deliberately spared and kidnapped.

But, here's a big consideration - If she had to disappear because she was in danger I could forgive that. She also may have other reasons to do it that we don't know yet. She may have done it to protect our trio's safety as well.

[chaifan]

Well, like I said above, I (sort of) like the theory of a murder in the building being a ruse for movie making purposes, but I really don't think it's going to go that way.  I think Sazz is truly dead.  Otherwise, the whole scene of her being shot, bleeding, etc., wouldn't make sense.  If it were a ruse, they would have started with finding a hole in the window, blood spatter on the stove, Gravey sniffing around, etc. 

 

[Yeah No]

13 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Well, like I said above, I (sort of) like the theory of a murder in the building being a ruse for movie making purposes, but I really don't think it's going to go that way.  I think Sazz is truly dead.  Otherwise, the whole scene of her being shot, bleeding, etc., wouldn't make sense.  If it were a ruse, they would have started with finding a hole in the window, blood spatter on the stove, Gravey sniffing around, etc. 

I hear you but I think it can make sense when you look at in the context of being an elaborate, realistic stunt from start to finish. The blood could have been hers in one of those packets that bursts like they use in movies and TV shows. And because there's no body there is no real evidence of where she actually was and if and where the bullet actually hit her. A lot of that could have been made to look like it happened a certain way when it didn't really happen that way. These would be people in the profession of TV/theatrical illusion so they would know how to do that.

[chaifan]

8 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I hear you but I think it can make sense when you look at in the context of being an elaborate, realistic stunt from start to finish.

For whose benefit, though?  She was in the room alone.  Unless Charles will suddenly remember later on that he has a hidden camera set up in the kitchen, which the "murderer" knew about all along...  and, yeah, that's a stretch even for me. 

 

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

For whose benefit, though?  She was in the room alone.  Unless Charles will suddenly remember later on that he has a hidden camera set up in the kitchen, which the "murderer" knew about all along...  and, yeah, that's a stretch even for me. 

Did you read my post where I theorized Bev Melon's possible motives for staging a fake murder? That's why - for them to find the "evidence" and think it was a real murder and investigate it so her actors could see them in action "solving" what they think is a murder. It's wacko but we've had even more wacko motives on this show so it's not that much of a stretch for me. 

Indoor security cameras are common these days. Even I have one so anyone going to those lengths would know where to find one and how to disable it. But I wonder if Charles would have such a camera. There's a good chance he wouldn't.

Edited September 13 by Yeah No

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I hear you but I think it can make sense when you look at in the context of being an elaborate, realistic stunt from start to finish. The blood could have been hers in one of those packets that bursts like they use in movies and TV shows. And because there's no body there is no real evidence of where she actually was and if and where the bullet actually hit her. A lot of that could have been made to look like it happened a certain way when it didn't really happen that way. These would be people in the profession of TV/theatrical illusion so they would know how to do that.

I can almost wave away the cadaver dog, because they made a point of saying he was fired. But we saw them use luminal, so there was actual blood there—and a lot of it. Even if it was pig’s blood or something (since the show’s emphasis on pigs), the fact that the FBI is on the case, they’d very quickly rule out if it wasn’t human blood or Sazz’s for that matter, if they had some other DNA cross-reference for her. It’s a fun idea, though, since they already had this whole movie planned and casted even before talking to the Arcadia trio.

[chaifan]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Did you read my post where I theorized Bev Melon's possible motives for staging a fake murder?

Yes, and I also said I liked that theory, but it doesn't fit with what we've already seen this season.  I could see Bev Melon staging a fake murder so the actors can follow along and see MC&O in action.  But the viewers seeing Sazz get shot doesn't make sense.

My comment about "whose benefit" goes to the scenes of Sazz being shot, laying in a pool of blood.  It makes no sense to stage that as part of a "fake murder mystery", because no one saw it.  If you're going to set up a fake murder scene, you'd simply leave behind the evidence of the murder, and go from there. 

But hey, I could be wrong.