S04.E07: The Insider

[paulvdb]

Quote

Hey kids! Did you know your neighbor, uncle, or even Mom and Dad might be trying to destroy America? Find out how to stop them on the Avenue V Christmas Special! If you see something, say something!

Premiere date: July 11, 2024

[AnimeMania]

[Affogato]

11 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Oh no! Run! Those puppets are never a good sign. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I know that dark is The Boys' thing, but Hughie was the victim of sexual assault last week when he was forced into sexual acts by Ashley and Tek-Knight (his childhood hero) and it was pretty much glossed over. And now this week he was sexually assaulted again when he had sex with the shapeshifter under false pretenses. I don't know how I feel over the show's handling of Hughie being a rape survivor.

It seems absurd that Shapeshifter could drug Starlight in a public place, drag her away and swap places with her without anyone noticing. It also seems absurd that given how long Hughie and Annie have been together that he has not slept with her in costume, which is what I think we are supposed to take away from the "always fantasized about this" thing -- that wouldn't make sense if they had ever done it while she was in costume. It also doesn't make sense that Shapeshifter would know about the costume having just been meant to have been thrown away or guessed that they hadn't done it with her in costume. 

The show continues to underwrite Sage. I think we are supposed to take things at face value that she always knew that A-Train was the leak and that she was using him to feed Butcher misinformation.  But this doesn't make any sense because a) there was no misinformation that as far as we the audience know A-Train fed the Boys. In fact, it's through A-Train that the Boys knew about most of what the  Supes are up to. If all we have seen the Supes be up to is a fakeout, then it seems like not a great plan. It would be far easier and better to keep them and the CIA in the dark about what they might be doing.  Also, why would it make sense for Sage to withhold the knowledge of A-Train being the leak from Homelander?

It makes more sense for her to have been caught off-guard by A-Train being the leak and trying to pull the wool over Hoelander's eyes by claiming she knew all along and it was all part of the plan. But if she had actually been fooled, then it doesn't make a great case for her being the world's smartest person.

We finally have Homelander make a move on Butcher and the Boys, but why would he go soft to the hoop by delegating it to Deep and Noir when he could kill them all in seconds himself? The real reason is "because the Boys wouldn't stand a chance against him, and we need the show to continue."  I don't think there is any in-universe reason that would make sense. 

[Affogato]

56 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

The show continues to underwrite Sage. I think we are supposed to take things at face value that she always knew that A-Train was the leak and that she was using him to feed Butcher misinformation.  But this doesn't make any sense because a) there was no misinformation that as far as we the audience know A-Train fed the Boys. In fact, it's through A-Train that the Boys knew about most of what the  Supes are up to. If all we have seen the Supes be up to is a fakeout, then it seems like not a great plan. It would be far easier and better to keep them and the CIA in the dark about what they might be doing.  Also, why would it make sense for Sage to withhold the knowledge of A-Train being the leak from Homelander?

It makes more sense for her to have been caught off-guard by A-Train being the leak and trying to pull the wool over Hoelander's eyes by claiming she knew all along and it was all part of the plan. But if she had actually been fooled, then it doesn't make a great case for her being the world's smartest 

If a really smart person knows someone is a mole and giving their opponents information, that person would feed said mole some correct information. The other side would grow to trust the mole. Then feed them, when necessary, some really destructive false intel. 
 

it is too much rape, loses impact. I thought last week was fine, btw. Horrible, but fit with the plot. This was too much, imo. 

i guess Homelander is at least smart/aware enough to not want to kill butcher and  his group and alienate Ryan. Ryan has affection for them. HL has minions. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

If a really smart person knows someone is a mole and giving their opponents information, that person would feed said mole some correct information. The other side would grow to trust the mole. Then feed them, when necessary, some really destructive false intel. 
 

it is too much rape, loses impact. I thought last week was fine, btw. Horrible, but fit with the plot. This was too much, imo. 

i guess Homelander is at least smart/aware enough to not want to kill butcher and  his group and alienate Ryan. Ryan has affection for them. HL has minions. 

I get the theory behind using A-Train for disinformation purposes. But from what we've seen, none of the information A-Train has provided to the Boys has been false or misleading. Indeed, through A-Train's work, the Boys now know that there is a plot to kill Singer using a shapeshifting Supe. Now it could turn out that is not the actual plot. If that's the case, it seems stupid to attempt to play that 4-D chess. If the actual plot is to have the shapeshifting Supe kill Singer in Starlight's form, they obviously should have tried to execute it without tipping their hand. Also, A-Train is a particularly dangerous person to use for disinformation purposes. His powers allow him to potentially act independently of Sage et al, and to get information that the Sage et al would probably not want out (even if they are also ultimately feeding him more disinformation ultimately).

It would be way easier and better to just have a normie fake being a whistleblower, and since that person would be way easier to control. 

But we are given the impression that Deep and Noir are trying their level best to kill Butcher and everyone. So it's not like Homelander was trying to spare Ryan's feelings. And it doesn't make sense given who Homelander is that he would deny himself the pleasure of killing or even taunting Butcher one last time.

Edited July 11 by Chicago Redshirt

[FishyJoe]

Maybe I missed an episode, but where did this shapeshifter come from? The only shapeshifter I knew was the one Homelander killed after he shapeshifted himself to look like Homelander. 

 

[Wizardpatch]

The Deep would be so easy to emotionally manipulate that I was surprised Starlight didn't trash talk him during the fight.

[Castiels Cat]

10 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I know that dark is The Boys' thing, but Hughie was the victim of sexual assault last week when he was forced into sexual acts by Ashley and Tek-Knight (his childhood hero) and it was pretty much glossed over. And now this week he was sexually assaulted again when he had sex with the shapeshifter under false pretenses. I don't know how I feel over the show's handling of Hughie being a rape survivor.

It seems absurd that Shapeshifter could drug Starlight in a public place, drag her away and swap places with her without anyone noticing. It also seems absurd that given how long Hughie and Annie have been together that he has not slept with her in costume, which is what I think we are supposed to take away from the "always fantasized about this" thing -- that wouldn't make sense if they had ever done it while she was in costume. It also doesn't make sense that Shapeshifter would know about the costume having just been meant to have been thrown away or guessed that they hadn't done it with her in costume. 

The show continues to underwrite Sage. I think we are supposed to take things at face value that she always knew that A-Train was the leak and that she was using him to feed Butcher misinformation.  But this doesn't make any sense because a) there was no misinformation that as far as we the audience know A-Train fed the Boys. In fact, it's through A-Train that the Boys knew about most of what the  Supes are up to. If all we have seen the Supes be up to is a fakeout, then it seems like not a great plan. It would be far easier and better to keep them and the CIA in the dark about what they might be doing.  Also, why would it make sense for Sage to withhold the knowledge of A-Train being the leak from Homelander?

It makes more sense for her to have been caught off-guard by A-Train being the leak and trying to pull the wool over Hoelander's eyes by claiming she knew all along and it was all part of the plan. But if she had actually been fooled, then it doesn't make a great case for her being the world's smartest person.

We finally have Homelander make a move on Butcher and the Boys, but why would he go soft to the hoop by delegating it to Deep and Noir when he could kill them all in seconds himself? The real reason is "because the Boys wouldn't stand a chance against him, and we need the show to continue."  I don't think there is any in-universe reason that would make sense. 

The other possibility is that she was playing Homelander.  She really hates his Maggatty ideas and was working to take him down from the inside. What she didn't see was being taken out by the most stupid one of them all. She probably shoukd have put a bag over Deep's head inside of bullet into hers.

This is good news for the Boys and especially Annie because she will March on over there and pretend that she wasn't willing to sacrifice Starlight for her own objectives.

I guess Neo Noir will stay since the Deep let him fly.

Edited July 11 by Castiels Cat

[bettername2come]

If we could go one week without sexually violating Hughie that would be great. I was expecting him to be the one the shapeshifter turned into and that his hand not being cut would be the reveal. Even when they started having sex I was wondering which one was gonna be the shapeshifter. 

Kripke really loves his skin peeling shapeshifters, doesn't he? It's also occurring to me that the other shapeshifter didn't have to do that so I appreciate the variety among similar powers. 

I'm glad that Ryan stood up for himself and that he mentioned how his mom loved Billy. I wanted him to mention his mom loving the Spice Girls. I love how proud of him Billy was.

Jessie T. Usher has really been doing fantastic work this season as a reforming A-Train. I really hope he doesn't die. Loved the save with MM. 

[PurpleTentacle]

They really want to sell me on the boys not being able to take Deep out permanently? We have never heard that he has any super resistance/healing/etc. above your normal supe. The boys have to have something around to take a supe like him out.

Hell in season 1 they had a guy, member of the 7 when that still meant something, with impenetrable skin and took him out by shoving a stick of dynamite up his ass. Now every garden-variety supe-asshole seems to be invulnerable. For example Neuman, once a great threat due to being a remote-head-popper and politically well connected, now also unkillable. Yawn. It is getting really annoying. Also makes Homelander seem less intimidating. When everybody is invulnerable and an existential threat, nobody is.

The writing has really gone down hill on this stuff. I get that writers and showrunners grow close to the actors over time, but to be great, they really have to put that aside sometimes. How much cooler and more fitting would it have been if Deep would have been killed this episode, because he got cocky and underestimated the boys?

And also, I love her, but maybe let Kimiko die of the virus. Let her whole thing with Frenchie be unresolved. We need something to up the stakes in here, show that this is real and not a sitcom, where everything turns out okay at the end. Or is raping Hughie every episode now what counts for tension in this show? I'm not entertained by it, that's for sure.

[Castiels Cat]

19 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

They really want to sell me on the boys not being able to take Deep out permanently? We have never heard that he has any super resistance/healing/etc. above your normal supe. The boys have to have something around to take a supe like him out.

Hell in season 1 they had a guy, member of the 7 when that still meant something, with impenetrable skin and took him out by shoving a stick of dynamite up his ass. Now every garden-variety supe-asshole seems to be invulnerable. For example Neuman, once a great threat due to being a remote-head-popper and politically well connected, now also unkillable. Yawn. It is getting really annoying. Also makes Homelander seem less intimidating. When everybody is invulnerable and an existential threat, nobody is.

The writing has really gone down hill on this stuff. I get that writers and showrunners grow close to the actors over time, but to be great, they really have to put that aside sometimes. How much cooler and more fitting would it have been if Deep would have been killed this episode, because he got cocky and underestimated the boys?

And also, I love her, but maybe let Kimiko die of the virus. Let her whole thing with Frenchie be unresolved. We need something to up the stakes in here, show that this is real and not a sitcom, where everything turns out okay at the end. Or is raping Hughie every episode now what counts for tension in this show? I'm not entertained by it, that's for sure.

 

19 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

They really want to sell me on the boys not being able to take Deep out permanently? We have never heard that he has any super resistance/healing/etc. above your normal supe. The boys have to have something around to take a supe like him out.

Hell in season 1 they had a guy, member of the 7 when that still meant something, with impenetrable skin and took him out by shoving a stick of dynamite up his ass. Now every garden-variety supe-asshole seems to be invulnerable. For example Neuman, once a great threat due to being a remote-head-popper and politically well connected, now also unkillable. Yawn. It is getting really annoying. Also makes Homelander seem less intimidating. When everybody is invulnerable and an existential threat, nobody is.

The writing has really gone down hill on this stuff. I get that writers and showrunners grow close to the actors over time, but to be great, they really have to put that aside sometimes. How much cooler and more fitting would it have been if Deep would have been killed this episode, because he got cocky and underestimated the boys?

And also, I love her, but maybe let Kimiko die of the virus. Let her whole thing with Frenchie be unresolved. We need something to up the stakes in here, show that this is real and not a sitcom, where everything turns out okay at the end. Or is raping Hughie every episode now what counts for tension in this show? I'm not entertained by it, that's for sure.

I used to like the Deep. He was deeply flawed and also a victim. The actor really excelled. Not this season. He is soulless and a sell out without redemption. The octopus scene was horrible. Trash talking to Annie's face... total Homelander assimilation. Timothy would be so disappointed in him.

Annie should have been able to kill him. They are in NYC. She can draw upon all of that electricity. I guess lady powers are emotionally dependent or somesuch.

Yes. They should be weapons ready because it's code red.

Also they should have tried to take out neo Noir. Surely Intel has told them this is not old Noir and not the same threat. He's some dude bro wearing the suit  he might be killable.

Edited July 13 by Castiels Cat

[Michichick]

I interpreted it that they could have killed Deep, but they chose not to. 

[baldryanr]

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

I guess lady powers are emotionally dependent or somesuch.

They certainly were for Tobey Maguire's Spider-man.  Fortunately he didn't eject webbing whenever he got nervous.

35 minutes ago, Michichick said:

I interpreted it that they could have killed Deep, but they chose not to.

More like they weren't willing to take the time to experiment because they were worried about New Noir returning. But seriously, next time try jamming a knife in his eye or a crowbar into his gills.

[iMonrey]

On 7/11/2024 at 7:08 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

We finally have Homelander make a move on Butcher and the Boys, but why would he go soft to the hoop by delegating it to Deep and Noir when he could kill them all in seconds himself? The real reason is "because the Boys wouldn't stand a chance against him, and we need the show to continue."  I don't think there is any in-universe reason that would make sense. 

And . . . that's basically the problem with this show in a nutshell. It's been going in circles because they can't seem to move past The Boys v. Homelander. I think there's other stories they could explore with Vaught and other supes but the show doesn't think anyone would be interested in anyone else but Homelander. 

I can't imagine what they are going to do with one more season of this. It should have ended last season, and I think this season just reinforces my belief in that.

[Affogato]

This season the characters sre undegoing a lot of change in preparation for the final season. While remaining a sociopath , Homelander has put to bed some of his past and shifted his priorities. At the beginning of the season it still seemed like Butcher was going to lead the Boys from the outside, but now we know he is barely holding on to some shreds of sanity and having a moral crisis. A-Train is deciding who he wants to be, as a black man and after the rejection of his family. Hughie and Annie are struggling. 

lots if movement and change as we shift towards the final confrontations. 

Edited July 12 by Affogato

[PurpleTentacle]

5 hours ago, baldryanr said:

More like they weren't willing to take the time to experiment because they were worried about New Noir returning. But seriously, next time try jamming a knife in his eye or a crowbar into his gills.

I mean, they are literally a supe-fighting-team, sponsored by the US government. In their headquarters they don't have anything lying around that could kill your run of the mill supe (I'd classify Deep as such in terms of resistance to damage and regeneration ability)? Like not even a chainsaw or a machete to chop off his head? How long can that take? 30 seconds?

My suspension of disbelieve has officially snapped.

[Castiels Cat]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And . . . that's basically the problem with this show in a nutshell. It's been going in circles because they can't seem to move past The Boys v. Homelander. I think there's other stories they could explore with Vaught and other supes but the show doesn't think anyone would be interested in anyone else but Homelander. 

I can't imagine what they are going to do with one more season of this. It should have ended last season, and I think this season just reinforces my belief in that.

Homelander cannot kill Butcher or be associated with that act because of Ryan. Even before Ryan essentially declared hat Butcher was family on national television Homelander understood this. 

The epic battle is not just between two primal opposing forces and the soul of the nation; it is for Ryan's love. Surprisingly Ryan's soul is not at risk because Becca raised him.

[Castiels Cat]

11 hours ago, Michichick said:

I interpreted it that they could have killed Deep, but they chose not to. 

Why. His callous and violent treatment of Annie deserved a serious response. I am upset about his behavior towards Ambrosious.

Edited July 13 by Castiels Cat

[AntFTW]

This was my favorite episode of the season thus far.

Hughie is now a victim of rape-by-deception.

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I mean, they are literally a supe-fighting-team, sponsored by the US government. In their headquarters they don't have anything lying around that could kill your run of the mill supe (I'd classify Deep as such in terms of resistance to damage and regeneration ability)? Like not even a chainsaw or a machete to chop off his head? How long can that take? 30 seconds?

My suspension of disbelieve has officially snapped.

I think it is likely the Deep is better than just an ordinary person in terms of resistance to damage. He has claimed that he was able to swim to the bottom of the Marianas Trench, which if true, would speak to a tremendous amount of resistance to pressure. This doesn't mean that the Boys should not have had a plan in mind to kill him, mind you, or that they should not have made greater attempts to on the fly.

The introduction in Gen V to the notion that Supes all can be hurt by hypersonic doodads is something, for instance, is something the Boys should know and should have been able to exploit. It would be suspension-of-disbelief breaking that sort of info has been kept controlled by Vought, and that the CIA hasn't figured it out, especially when the Boys had tracked down at least one top Vought scientist and flipped him before he got headpopped. They know that there's the gas that was used to knock out Soldier Boy and keep him sedated. They don't have stocks of that around?

Of course, the real-world answer is that the Deep (or any of them) are just as deadly or weak or smart or stupid as the story needs them to be. There's no reason to do a frontal assault on the Boys while in their headquarters when Noir could just not wear his suit and just kill them anywhere he wants, when they are utterly unprepared and have no reason to have their guard up.  

On 7/11/2024 at 5:43 PM, FishyJoe said:

Maybe I missed an episode, but where did this shapeshifter come from? The only shapeshifter I knew was the one Homelander killed after he shapeshifted himself to look like Homelander. 

 

This is the first we are seeing of this particular shifter. Like in the comics that inspire the Boys, there are often people with similar powers that work slightly differently. This one apparently needs to molt skin to change shape/looks, while the one Homelander killed could just instantaneously do it IIRC.

On 7/11/2024 at 6:04 PM, Castiels Cat said:

The other possibility is that she was playing Homelander.  She really hates his Maggatty ideas and was working to take him down from the inside. What she didn't see was being taken out by the most stupid one of them all. She probably shoukd have put a bag over Deep's head inside of bullet into hers.

This is good news for the Boys and especially Annie because she will March on over there and pretend that she wasn't willing to sacrifice Starlight for her own objectives.

The thing is that they haven't given the slightest indication that Sage has some more sophisticated agenda or plan than what has been presented: get Newman to stage a coup/assassinate Singer once he has become president, then reveal herself as a Supe and usher in an era of Supe Supremacy....profit. 

If she were trying to undermine Homelander, one would think the smartest person in the world would have a contingency plan for if Homelander fired her. 

Then again, it doesn't seem consistent with Homelander's character for that firing to not involve a firing of lasers. 

8 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Homelander cannot kill Butcher or be associated with that act because of Ryan. Even before Ryan essentially declared hat Butcher was family on national television Homelander understood this. 

The epic battle is not just between two primal opposing forces and the soul of the nation; it is for Ryan's love. Surprisingly Ryan's soul is not at risk because Becca raised him.

But as we see in this very episode, Homelander sent two minions to kill Butcher and the Boys. So either he doesn't have a fear of Butcher's death tanking his relationship with Ryan, or he thought sending two of his top minions in full costume to kill Butcher et al was somehow not going to get back to Ryan. 

Anyway, I am not as optimistic as you that the temptations of basically being the second most powerful person on the planet (and possibly in time the first) could not corrupt someone. Especially when that someone is a teenager. Just ordinary fame could lead a teen to become any of the things we've seen in real-life teen celebrities -- cruel, misogynistic, self-absorbed, etc. Imagine having a whole different level of power that made you literally unaccountable with a megacorporation there to buy out, cover up or kill to deal with any of your misdeeds.

[shrewd.buddha]

On 7/11/2024 at 8:08 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

The show continues to underwrite Sage.

The world's "smartest person"? Has she done anything demonstrably smart ?   
There was some lame media manipulation.. Was it smart to let the wrong guy be killed for being a mole? 
Even if Sage has been working a long con against Vought/Homelander, I can't recall any actual moments of genius.

On 7/12/2024 at 12:41 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

The writing has really gone down hill on this stuff.

^.. The actual source of the problems.. 

The show is stuck with these characters, stuck in one area of the US, existing in a world where apparently there are no natural disasters or actual criminal activities that the Vought super-people can provide help with.  The Deep doesn't even live near water.  And apparently it's too much trouble to have Homelander and Ryan fly around anymore.  

[Affogato]

It is well to remember that Sage’s manipulation, as she says, her goal, is to see society crash and burn. As they all deserve. 

Edited July 13 by Affogato

[AnimeMania]

It seems the "first?", "second?" thing that the shape-shifting person did was steal Hughie's laptop with the evidence on Victoria Neuman on it. This might suggest that they are working "for" or "against" Victoria, depending on what they do with the evidence. That suggests that they have a larger agenda than just the assassination attempt.

I seems that the shape-shifting person's powers allows them to know everything about a people with just one touch (incredibly useful skill), since they held a conversation with Starlight's mother and knew the combination to the safe.

[Mabinogia]

On 7/12/2024 at 11:19 AM, iMonrey said:

And . . . that's basically the problem with this show in a nutshell. It's been going in circles because they can't seem to move past The Boys v. Homelander. I think there's other stories they could explore with Vaught and other supes but the show doesn't think anyone would be interested in anyone else but Homelander. 

I wish they had killed Homelander at the end of last season, that Hughie and Butcher taking the Temp V made them strong enough, alongside the others, to finally take him down. Yay! They saved the world! Only to realize Homelander wasn't the true enemy, or not the only one, because now another Supe has risen into his place. This is where it could get interesting. 

They could go with:

A) Sage, smartest person. Which would cause them to have to confront a new and more insidious form of evil. Where HL was controlling everyone with fear and strength, Sage is getting into people's heads, controlling them with manipulation and tapping into universal fears. 

B) Ryan. While Becca's nurturing kept him "good" for a while, HL's influence, and sycophants like Ashley whispering in his young and impressionable ear that he is now the most powerful person in the world and it is his job to uphold his father's legacy, blah blah. Now this one would put Butcher in a hell of a position. His whole thing was taking down HL but now the one person he's been trying to save has basically become HL. DRAMA!!!!

And because Anthony Starr is so amazing has HL, instead of having Butcher hallucinating his old partner? is that who JDM is supposed to be? I don't pay much attention when he's on so I'm not sure who the character is. They could have Butcher haunted (and taunted) by Homelander. Imaging having the person you hate most in the universe now living in your head 24/7. 

I get that the show doesn't want to lose HL but this would be a way to keep him around while also changing the show up dramatically but also kind of keeping it status quo.

Alas, we're still just circling the same old "Boys want to take down HL but can't because he's too powerful, but someone not powerful enough to get rid of them because then the show would be over." I'm basically watching more because I enjoy some of the characters than because I'm even remotely interested in the story anymore. 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 hours ago, Affogato said:

It is well to remember that Sage’s manipulation, as she says, her goal, is to see society crash and burn. As they all deserve. 

Again, one doesn't have to be particularly smart to make society crash and burn, especially if you think that it is a hair's breadth from doing it crashing and burning  on its own anyway and when you are gifted the resources of the world's most powerful corporation AND people with superpowers AND no morals.

Let's review what Sage has done so far:

1. Sage has recruited some Homelander fans, had the Seven murder them, plant their bodies at a protest over Homelander's acquittal, then framed Starlight  fans whose innocence could be objectively proven.

2. Sage recruited a racist she found distasteful because she hates Starlight and raised her to the prominence of the Seven so she could try to drag Starlight's name through the mud. Sage dredged up Starlight having an abortion so that Firecracker would publicize it and anger Starlight into beating Firecracker publicly.

3. Sage met with Homelander and Neuman personally to agree to a coup.

4. Sage also met with conservative politicians to get their support for a coup.

5.  Sage enlisted Tek Knight and arranged for his private prisons to be used to detain enemies of the coup.

6. Sage is arranging for a shapeshifting assassin to kill President-elect Singer, which would put Neuman in charge as president. 

Which begs the question of "Why do it in the way Sage is doing it?" Isn't it entirely too slow and roundabout, when you could fake (or actually cause) any number of crises to let people think even more highly of Vought than they do? 

There is not an in-universe reason I can think of why Sage is doing things this way. The real reasons include "because the show has to give the Boys a fighting chance to stop Sage's plans, because the show wants to riff off real-world conservatives, because the writers aren't smart enough or willing enough to actually treat Sage as the smartest person alive."

I mean, even within the show, who seems smarter: Sage or Stan Edgar? Sage or Butcher? Sage or Neuman? 

 

[shrewd.buddha]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

because the writers aren't smart enough or willing enough to actually treat Sage as the smartest person alive.

Bingo.  The only way the writers know to telegraph smartness is to have Sage surrounded by stacks of books.

Also - why does it feel so random that it is suddenly Christmas? The show has not bothered to show any type of progression towards the end of the year.
This means the super important election we have been building towards is still almost a year away.

[Chicago Redshirt]

30 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Bingo.  The only way the writers know to telegraph smartness is to have Sage surrounded by stacks of books.

Also - why does it feel so random that it is suddenly Christmas? The show has not bothered to show any type of progression towards the end of the year.
This means the super important election we have been building towards is still almost a year away.

The writers have another trick or two, such as Sage being able to say things like as a kid she came up with a cure for a relative's fatal illness over a couple nights, and her being able to read MM and Homelander. Being able to gather information and analyze it to draw conclusions is at least a sign of intelligence. Arguably, though, she did it wrong in MM's case. Anyone who had a basic understanding about MM's background and psychology would know that it's a terrible idea to highlight the fact that you're keeping tabs on his daughter and a worse one to basically taunt him that she's turning out like him. I'd say as much as anything that is what got her shot.

The notion of her deductive abilities reminds me: Tek Knight is another character who I would say comes off as smarter than her  in this series and Gen V.

Anyway, those writers' tricks are nothing when compared to the number of blatantly dumb or at least overwrought moves she seems to be making. To paraphrase Tywin Lannister, "Anyone needing to proclaim themselves the smartest person in the world is no smart person at all."

In fairness to the show, I think any confusion about when we are is on you. We have been somewhere between November and December the entire season. The first scene of the season was Neuman addressing supporters on election night saying that Colorado and Nevada went for their ticket and that she thought that they were going to be back soon with some good news. American national elections happen by law on the first Tuesday after the first Monday of November, or from November 2 to November 8. The winner typically gets sworn in January 20 or thereabouts.

So Singer-Neuman won the election, and are the president-elect and vice president-elect. The Vought on Ice event was a holiday special thing. The Sage-Homelander plan is tied to January 6, which again can't be for organic, in-universe reasons but because of real-world January 6, 2021 and the insurrection at the Capitol. On the day that Congress certifies the election as valid, it apparently cements that if anything happens to Singer then Neuman takes over. But Sage/Neuman/Homelander can kill or sideline Robert Singer any time from then on and achieve their aims. Hell, arguably they could kill him from the moment they won the election and probably press a claim that Neuman be considered the president-elect at that point.

The only possible ticking clock is that Singer knows Neuman is a Supe and is actively trying to kill or get rid of her, so there could be some concern that he might succeed.

Which of course brings up a bunch of questions such as: How exactly does Singer know that Neuman is a  "head-popping bitch"? Are we to think that the Boys told him? When did he find out? Why is he not doing something with this info, like, I don't know...having her arrested as a serial killer or at a minimum outed as a supe? Do Homelander/Neuman/Sage know that Singer knows?

[shrewd.buddha]

55 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So Singer-Neuman won the election, and are the president-elect and vice president-elect.

I must have glazed over the election night events. 

[silverstream]

There's also the possiblity that Sage is doing what she's doing for no other reason than to mess with everyone for her personal amusement/satisfaction/revenge on society, no end goal required. After all, despite Homelander thinking she's with him because he's offering her a sweet deal with Vaught/the Seven, if she's even half as smart as she's said she could have plenty of power and money any time she wanted to. She'd just need to find herself an investor and a project manager, hand them the cure for cancer/global warming/what-have-you, and she can have whatever luxury and influence she wants.

The shapeshifter getting away from the Boys the first time was ridiculous. You can clearly see she's still very bloody when she leaves the building, but when the boys exit what can only be seconds later, there's loads of people walking around completely unconcerned, as if somebody looking like an extra from a horror movie hadn't just pelted out of there. At least have the street be empty!

[Castiels Cat]

On 7/13/2024 at 8:15 AM, Affogato said:

It is well to remember that Sage’s manipulation, as she says, her goal, is to see society crash and burn. As they all deserve. 

I think she desires to see Vought crash and burn. She desires tp see the Seven crash and burn. I think she was working on the inside to destroy them because of the way she has been underestimated by them. She was on a teenage show and tossed away. They underestimated her worth previously, HER superiority to other supes and because Homelander is not her equal. She really hated him at first sight.

I believe that she knew about A-train and it was part of her plan. That is why it was step this, step That. She is leaving them cookie crumbs. Why Starlight has to be treated like this... she's the fall guy to make it seem real. She betrayed the Seven. 

She was unprepared for stupid besting her,  however that doesn't mean she ddn't prepare plan B. A go bag to take to the Boys. It should include a cure for Butcher, a level up for the Team, and the play to free Starlight. 

I have been thinking about why the Boys failed to take out the bro squad: "A Fish Rots from the Head Down". A failure of leadership has crippled the team and no one was in a position to step up or step in. M.M.had his family drama. Annie was being bullied while simultaneously dealing with her past as a teenage bully. Hughie was engulfed in grief. Frenchie was immersed in guilt and drugs and love.  Kimoko was dealing with multiple emotions from being alone and remembering her past. They all were dealing with personal demons and buried in their heads.

Butcher is a literal head case fighting brain cancer and seeing a personified angel and demon fighting over his soul. It's unclear what's going on with the V in his body. 

I had speculated Sage might present a convenient Vouggt cure. However tge final solution that Butcher has been working on is also a cure. Diseases are often used to cyre something worse and I have a feeling that Butcher's test protocol will not proceed according to plan.

Edited July 17 by Castiels Cat

[tennisgurl]

Awww way to go Ryan! Despite all of Homelanders attempts at molding him into his imagine, it can never stick because he's fundamentally a good kid. I love how proud Butcher was of him, I hope that they can have more time together before Butcher dies and the show ends. 

It really doesn't make a ton of sense that Homelander would have just kept letting The Boys hang out at their office this long and when he finally decides to get rid of them he doesn't do it himself, but the writers were stuck between a rock and a hard place. They didn't want to lose Homelander, who's an amazing villain, but if he really went against The Boys and tried to kill him than he would need to be killed, the heroes would need to be killed, or they would have had to break up the status quo, which the show doesn't really want to do.

I see the Supernatural shapeshifters have made an appearance! that's still super gross, good to know. 

Could we go just one episode without poor Hughie being sexually assaulted please? They didn't even mention what happened in the last episode, and I am guessing they will gloss over the rape by deception when everyone finds out the truth.

I am really glad that it seems like A Train has finally make his choice after so many years going back and fourth on being a decent person or being a selfish dick. I am even feeling sympathy for Ashley, who has done a lot of crappy stuff but is at least capable of feeling bad about it.

[Dobian]

On 7/11/2024 at 5:08 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

I know that dark is The Boys' thing, but Hughie was the victim of sexual assault last week when he was forced into sexual acts by Ashley and Tek-Knight (his childhood hero) and it was pretty much glossed over. And now this week he was sexually assaulted again when he had sex with the shapeshifter under false pretenses. I don't know how I feel over the show's handling of Hughie being a rape survivor.

I think Kripke just has a fetish for raping men for whatever weird reason.  Webweaver and Ashley's sub have been similarly sexually degraded.  It's gross.