Artistic Gymnastics

[Conotocarious]

8 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Thank you! That pirouette is not good. 

Maybe I just see that now that I’ve been exposed to so much more quality dance. I remember loving that routine back in the day.

Also, doesn’t everyone periodically fall down the rabbit hole of watching old routines?….

Maybe here we all do! Everyone else in my life is like what on earth are you watching…

[CeeBeeGee]

38 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Its funny you bring up Lillia, I was watching her floor routine on YouTube months ago (as you do if you’re….well, me) 

 

27 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Also, doesn’t everyone periodically fall down the rabbit hole of watching old routines?….

Hell, I watch old meets. That is a perfectly acceptable way for me to spend a Friday evening, digging up, say, 2003 Worlds or anything 2013-2015 (*sigh,* I miss peak Kyla Ross and her whip whip music).

[Conotocarious]

On 8/8/2024 at 6:02 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

Her confidence was gone the moment she fell from the beam. It was heartbreaking watching her unable to rally herself.

Not to get too into the weeds but she absolutely did rally herself. She came back in that compulsories meet to make the all-around and edge out Kerri Strug. Her dead-eyed floor was part of the rally, believe it or not. Many people forget Kim’s fall off beam in compulsories was not what killed her medal chances.

Then in the all-around she shot herself in the foot by flying out of bounds on one of her passes…maybe the last one. Another exciting double back. Then she started making mistake after mistake especially on beam and was never in contention.

[CeeBeeGee]

WTH does this mean? They're taking away Jordan's bronze because it wasn't filed quickly enough? And giving it to Ana? Am I interpreting this correctly?

What a cock up. Now, no one is happy--except maybe Ana. Way to ruin the Games, Nadia.

[Souris]

That is messed up. 🤬

[Sarahsmile416]

6 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

WTH does this mean? They're taking away Jordan's bronze because it wasn't filed quickly enough? And giving it to Ana? Am I interpreting this correctly?

What a cock up. Now, no one is happy--except maybe Ana. Way to ruin the Games, Nadia.

That's what I understood- seriously wtf?? This is the most fucked up way to fix a situation that didn't need fixing to begin with...I can understand looking at the routine that came in 4th and revisiting that, but this?? Really?

[Chaser]

Romanian Federation pulled some petty bullshit.

[MaryMitch]

This article says there is a 1 minute window. I can't imagine being able to put together an inquiry in that amount of time. But if that's the rules...

https://apnews.com/article/2024-olympics-paris-gymnastics-4004ae4869ac2eafbb89b68ee5966110

[Chaser]

1 minute from what? The scoring posting? The routine completed? We watched everything in real-time. How can it get faster?
 

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, Chaser said:

1 minute from what? The scoring posting? The routine completed? We watched everything in real-time. How can it get faster?
 

i tried researching but i just keep getting what happened last week, and what is happening now. my best guess is 1 minute from when the score is posted. {because how can you appeal your score if you don't know what your score is right?} 

here is my two cents. 
Jordan Chiles's coach has every right to file the appeal to see if Jordan's score was undervalued. (and the judges thought it was). my question is [even taking in human error] - how do you make that mistake? we've had several of those errors during these games and I am like if an athlete filed their programme, you know what the start value is, and you lower it if they miss connections or something egregious. so if you're changing it. what was wrong? (I think this being explained - would make a lot of sense and a bit more transparency). Like I want to know where the 0.1 was missed the first time that made them think they needed to add it in. that's where i would be more upset at - and again this has happened a LOT at this Olympics. 

I'd also argue. you need a bit more time than 1 minute to figure out if this is a path you need to take because not only do you have to be right your actions are impacting other athletes placements. because of this mistake - 1 girl thought she won  - and then she lost. then another girl thought she hadn't - and then she won - and now it's being reversed again. that's on the judging. [and again. that's still accounting for human error etc]. 

However - I feel that Romania obviously felt this was in violation of something [apparently the time limit] and they have the right to file an appeal. I don't think it's petty or bs to fight for a medal you think you've won. they advocated for themselves as they should and the CAS obviously thought there was something to it because they changed it. 

I just feel bad for both the girls who had to go through this rigamarole. 

 

[yowsah1]

I was watching Rhythmic Gymnastics last night and it seemed like every other routine got appealed.  Apparently this bullshit has already had a knock-on effect.

[MaryMitch]

The whole bronze medal controversy is a circus. If they are saying the inquiry wasn't submitted in time, why didn't they deny it right then? Doesn't anybody know the rules?

[surfgirl]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

WTH does this mean? They're taking away Jordan's bronze because it wasn't filed quickly enough? And giving it to Ana? Am I interpreting this correctly?

What a cock up. Now, no one is happy--except maybe Ana. Way to ruin the Games, Nadia.

I read it as the other two ladurs get ti share bronze too, ot am I misteading this legalese?

[Garden Wafers]

18 minutes ago, surfgirl said:

I read it as the other two ladurs get ti share bronze too, ot am I misteading this legalese?

Sounds like they're saying the final rankings should be based on Chiles's initial posted score and are ignoring the suggestion that everyone should be awarded a joint bronze. 

[Conotocarious]

Being able to go back and do this shit after the event has ended is complete and total trash. THAT’s what makes the sport a joke in some people’s mind….not subjective scoring. Lots of referee calls in sports can be subjective. But if there’s an error and it skates through….well, with humans in charge that happens.

This mess has utterly enraged me. Poor Jordan is taking a social media break and she is obviously devastated. Way to ruin the Olympic experience of someone who is always so positive and supportive. This is on top of the abuse she has received online.

Romanian can take that bronze medal and cram it straight up their ass. Ana isn’t even the problem….she was extremely gracious. But many others tossed gasoline on this fire and can rot for all I care.

[Chaser]

I read that it was found to be 4 seconds late. 

[Makai]

Four second late. How fucking absurd. 

The whole process needs to be reformed. A one minute deadline for the last athlete is unreasonable given how gymnastic scores are posted. 

2 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

WTH does this mean? They're taking away Jordan's bronze because it wasn't filed quickly enough? And giving it to Ana? Am I interpreting this correctly?

They didn’t make any recommendations for how the medals should be adjusted. That will be left up to the IOC. 

I hope the US can appeal because four seconds could easily be within the margin of error. 

Edited August 10 by Makai

[Daisy]

16 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Being able to go back and do this shit after the event has ended is complete and total trash. THAT’s what makes the sport a joke in some people’s mind….not subjective scoring. Lots of referee calls in sports can be subjective. But if there’s an error and it skates through….well, with humans in charge that happens.

but unless i am missing something else. Romania did not petition the error that Ana was dinged for.  (using your referee analogy). which you would be right to get upset about (as would i). because like i said. missed calls happen all the time and you shoulda been on it if you thought you had something. 

They petitioned through CAS about Jordan's inquiry. that's not subjective and from what i've read that's not something you can do on the floor - you have to go through CAS).  And the reason why it was tossed out was because Jordan's coach was too late in filing in her inquiry. 

so my thing here is - why was it accepted in the first place. 

Jordan's coach wasn't wrong in doing it [in several articles i've read she said it was a hail mary]. 

Romania isn't wrong in being mad and protesting the change and they did what they had the right to do. 

What went wrong was the judging. How do you eff up 0.1 in either direction - how do you not know the inquiry was late and why did you accept that. That's where my anger would be directed that.  it's on them to get it right - and it's on them to speak out and say how they screwed up. I know they stopped doing ties in gymnastics - but like in this case the best course of action is to give Jordan and Ana bronzes because both federations did what they did - the girls did what they did. and the judges royally pooped the bed here. that's on them. 

if i am wrong  and Romania also petitioned Ana's deduction I will stand corrected and be a bit more upset about Romania's actions here but if this is just about Jordan inquiry then Romania is in the right

7 minutes ago, Makai said:

Four second late. How fucking absurd. 

holy moses. that's.. wow. this is just getting more and more bonkers. 
 

8 minutes ago, Makai said:

The whole process needs to be reformed. 

this right here. and a lot more transparency when they eff it up. 

[Chaser]

CAS dismissed Sabrina’s petition. 

[kittykat]

Good effin' lord!  I'm so confused and enraged because first Romania is in uproar because of Sabrina and now somehow Ana is getting the bronze again after Jordan has the medal.  This is an absolute mess and will likely now lead to yet ANOTHER dumb overhaul of scoring.

No one is on the same page and someone is going to get screwed.  The only way out of this would appear to dual/triple bronzes but I'm guessing they're trying not to set that precedent so everyone and their mother doesn't start filing appeals.

Either way it's on the judging and appeals system.  At this point both US and Romanian delegations have reasons to be royally pissed at how this has all played out.

Edited August 10 by kittykat

[Makai]

1 minute ago, Daisy said:

but unless i am missing something else. Romania did not petition the error that Ana was dinged for.

Ana wasn’t dinged for anything. Romania did petition over Sabrina’s out of bounds inquiry but that was denied. 

[Daisy]

1 minute ago, Makai said:

Ana wasn’t dinged for anything. Romania did petition over Sabrina’s out of bounds inquiry but that was denied. 

ah my mistake - mixing the two together. thanks for the correction!! :)

2 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Either way it's on the judging and appeals system.  At this point both US and Romanian delegations have reasons to be royally pissed at how this has all played out.

yeah in one of the articles I read - USA Gymnastics is not happy in their official statement [which i do not blame them]. Romania wasn't happy which - I don't blame them. people are human and everything but i just... i don't understand how you let this happen - and honestly i agree with you. while the answer would be "More medals." that could pretty much open a door they don't wanna open. 

unlike diving (which is live/in the moment judging) doesn't gymnastics have access to instant replay? legit do not understand how they seriously messed this up so badly.

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

CAS dismissed Sabrina’s petition. 

as they should. that was a mistake. - but that happens in sports. 

[Chaser]

The petition requested 3 Bronze medals be awarded, which the ruling did not decide.

I know it’s a popular idea, but I’m not a fan of awarding medals to smooth things over. The idea of pushing someone down to fifth place and then handing them a bronze sounds so insulting. If I was Jordan, it would be tainted. 

[scarynikki12]

The four seconds thing is even more absurd when you realize the gymnasts ahead of Jordan in the final had 4 minutes to submit any inquiries while Jordan, being the last athlete, only had 1. Yes, that's the rule and her coach was 4 seconds late, hence the ruling, but it shouldn't have been that way in the first place. Either every gymnast has 1 minute to submit or they all have 4. Why set up the final gymnast for failure like that?

Also, a judging error (I think accepting an inquiry 4 seconds late counts) should not result in punishment for the athlete. Jordan was punished in the same way as Andrea Raducan and the 2000 Chinese women's team but these situations aren't the same! Andrea lost her gold because she failed a drug test and the Chinese team lost their bronze because they were caught with underage gymnast(s). Jordan was of age, not on any substances, and her coach filed an inquiry that was accepted yet she's now equated with actual cheaters*.

This should have resulted in an additional bronze awarded to Ana rather than punishing Jordan as if she'd been using unauthorized performance enhancers.

*For the record I blame the Romanian doctor and Chinese coaches for those medal strippings and Jordan's coach submitting an inquiry she had no way of knowing would even work is not remotely the same thing.

Edited August 10 by scarynikki12

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, MaryMitch said:

The whole bronze medal controversy is a circus. If they are saying the inquiry wasn't submitted in time, why didn't they deny it right then? Doesn't anybody know the rules?

And, if Chile's inquiry had to be submitted within 1 minute, why did Barbosu's inquiry not have the same requirement?  If she and her coaches had more than a minute to ask for an appeal after the score was changed, why did they?

[Conotocarious]

FOUR seconds late. Yes, Romania is being petty. Can you imagine the backlash on Simone if the US were in the position of quibbling over four seconds?

Romania can go screw.

[Dr.OO7]

This is absurd and abhorrent.

[Conotocarious]

Now everyone in the gymternet is in full meltdown. 

 

And to think we all thought beam was the biggest mess of an event final. This floor final is going down in infamy.

[Dr.OO7]

6 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Now everyone in the gymternet is in full meltdown. 

 

And to think we all thought beam was the biggest mess of an event final. This floor final is going down in infamy.

Maybe they should chuck all the results and redo everything. 🙄

[WhitneyWhit]

From what I read, Romania did not want Jordan to lose her medal and both federations agreed to share the bronze, but the FIG and IOC rejected this and have asked Jordan to return the medal. 

[Chaser]

They sending her a return shipping label too? 🙄

[Dr.OO7]

4 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

From what I read, Romania did not want Jordan to lose her medal and both federations agreed to share the bronze, but the FIG and IOC rejected this and have asked Jordan to return the medal. 

Now, I'm getting even angrier.  If even Romanian is willing to share the medal as long as their athlete is recognized, there's no reason for FIG/IOC to demand that Jordan return hers.

[CeeBeeGee]

Eff that. Jordan, don't give it back. They can't make you. FIG can try to bully you but it didn't work in 2004 with the men's AA. Don't give it back.

Jesus, what a shit show.

[NUguy514]

3 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

From what I read, Romania did not want Jordan to lose her medal and both federations agreed to share the bronze, but the FIG and IOC rejected this and have asked Jordan to return the medal. 

If I were Jordan, my response would be🖕🏻.

The reason Cécile had to file that appeal for Jordan within a minute is because Jordan was the final gymnast in the rotation, and it's completely unrealistic and unfair that she only had one minute to do so.  It's completely skewed that the first gymnast to perform has so much time to submit an appeal and the final gymnast has zero time.  Now, I am SURE she had the paperwork filled out and ready to go because she knew the time limit, but one minute from the score posting is still a ridiculous ask if, for example, the walk to submit the paperwork is more than a minute with coaches, gymnasts, a million camera people, etc. in the way.

Moreover, the judges fucked up, like, a thousand times, but where Jordan is concerned, they just assumed her start value would be the same as it had always been and didn't correctly evaluate the jump turn (I think) she did that gave her that extra tenth in start value.

Also, the judges should never have accepted Jordan's appeal to begin with if it was truly outside the time limit; however, I don't know how anyone, including and especially Romania and those crooks at the CAS, could possibly judge Cécile to have been four fucking seconds too late.

I'd be fine with Ana and Jordan sharing the bronze, but fuck Romania and fuck Nadia, especially.

12 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

Now, I'm getting even angrier.  If even Romanian is willing to share the medal as long as their athlete is recognized, there's no reason for FIG/IOC to demand that Jordan return hers.

The IOC very much hates ties now and has made it virtually impossible for there to be ties.  Witness a few of the track events: Noah Lyles was judged the winner in the men's 100m by .005 seconds when he and Kishane Thompson tied to the hundredth of a second, which had always been the smallest increment of time used...until it wasn't.  Swimming still seems to allow dead heats, but I wonder if that's just the technology used.  For whatever reason, the IOC has decided to make ties impossible unless every single possible tiebreaker is used.  I blame that corrupt sack of shit Thomas Bach, and if he's still the President of the IOC when the Olympics are here in LA in four years, I'm going to track him down and go all Mola Ram on him.

[kittykat]

Sadly the only way we end up with a dual medal situation is if a full blown scandal and proof of collusion erupts a la 2002.

26 minutes ago, WhitneyWhit said:

From what I read, Romania did not want Jordan to lose her medal and both federations agreed to share the bronze, but the FIG and IOC rejected this and have asked Jordan to return the medal. 

They can fuck all the way off.  They bullied Paul Hamm in 2004 to do the same.  Like quit pointing the finger in the WRONG direction.

[Salacious Kitty]

7 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

If I were Jordan, my response would be🖕🏻.

The reason Cécile had to file that appeal for Jordan within a minute is because Jordan was the final gymnast in the rotation, and it's completely unrealistic and unfair that she only had one minute to do so.  It's completely skewed that the first gymnast to perform has so much time to submit an appeal and the final gymnast has zero time.  Now, I am SURE she had the paperwork filled out and ready to go because she knew the time limit, but one minute from the score posting is still a ridiculous ask if, for example, the walk to submit the paperwork is more than a minute with coaches, gymnasts, a million camera people, etc. in the way.

Moreover, the judges fucked up, like, a thousand times, but where Jordan is concerned, they just assumed her start value would be the same as it had always been and didn't correctly evaluate the jump turn (I think) she did that gave her that extra tenth in start value.

Also, the judges should never have accepted Jordan's appeal to begin with if it was truly outside the time limit; however, I don't know how anyone, including and especially Romania and those crooks at the CAS, could possibly judge Cécile to have been four fucking seconds too late.

I'd be fine with Ana and Jordan sharing the bronze, but fuck Romania and fuck Nadia, especially.

The IOC very much hates ties now and has made it virtually impossible for there to be ties.  Witness a few of the track events: Noah Lyles was judged the winner in the men's 100m by .005 seconds when he and Kishane Thompson tied to the hundredth of a second, which had always been the smallest increment of time used...until it wasn't.  Swimming still seems to allow dead heats, but I wonder if that's just the technology used.  For whatever reason, the IOC has decided to make ties impossible unless every single possible tiebreaker is used.  I blame that corrupt sack of shit Thomas Bach, and if he's still the President of the IOC when the Olympics are here in LA in four years, I'm going to track him down and go all Mola Ram on him.

Just announced today that Bach is stepping down next year. 

[CeeBeeGee]

I really hope both FIG and the IOC regret this. I think they've  underestimated the lengths to which Jordan's best friend will go to defend her teammates. Simone has piles of time on her hands right now and a huge platform. 

And yes (and I never thought I'd say this) fuck Nadia.

[Daisy]

7 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Just announced today that Bach is stepping down next year. 

about time. he sucks

[NUguy514]

12 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Just announced today that Bach is stepping down next year. 

Very interesting...the only possible conclusion to be drawn is that he's stepping down because he's afraid of my wrath.  Well, I've got bad news for you, Thomas: Switzerland is stunning in the summer, and I could use a vacation.

*looks into hotels in Lausanne

You will never escape my wrath.

[WhitneyWhit]

It’s amazing how the only times the FIG strips medals Is when people of color are involved. The Chinese in 2000 that, while yes it was deserved, the Soviets, East Germans, and Romanians blatantly lied about ages, hell Romania was lying about ages as recently as 1996 and who can forget the time they tried to pass off Lavinia Agache as Ekaterina Szabo. 
 

Gymnastics has gained so many fans thanks to seeing so many women of color succeeding, this is gonna be such a huge step back for that  

 

[shoregirl]

Jordan should "lose" the medal in the mail. IOC should fuck right off with their bullshit. If the inquiry was too late why was it accepted at all. Also how is it fair the last athlete gets one minute when everyone else gets 4. This has been handled horribly from the start and none of its the athletes faults . If the judges fucked up that's on them. Give them both the bronze and move on.

 

[Conotocarious]

It’s nice to see the other girls on the team on social media calling out the judges and supporting Jordan. Times sure have changed and so much for the better.

I

[WhitneyWhit]

And hell no Jordan shouldn’t send it back. I’d wear that medal everywhere I went: class, grocery store, post office, competitions, the shower, the gym, and every December I would send the FIG and IOC a Christmas card and the card would be a picture of me wearing it  

 

[emma675]

This is all such bullshit. Poor Jordan, she should not be bullied or stuck in the middle of this storm, she should be enjoying her Olympic success. The judges, FIG, and CAS can all go screw themselves. 

[roamyn]

I'm sorry, but I'm on Romania's side here.  I thought it was utter BS they did that to Ana in the first place. 

If inquiries are allowed, them why can't Romania put an inquiry into an inquiry.  4 seconds is 4 seconds.  That's more than the difference between Gold and off te podium in a bunch of Track & Field events.

I do think the IOC can bend the rules and allow both to keep their medals, but it still strips Ana of that moment to shine.

[surfgirl]

1 hour ago, NUguy514 said:

Very interesting...the only possible conclusion to be drawn is that he's stepping down because he's afraid of my wrath.  Well, I've got bad news for you, Thomas: Switzerland is stunning in the summer, and I could use a vacation.

*looks into hotels in Lausanne

You will never escape my wrath.

Here ye here ye all incensed gymnastic fans! Gather thy pitchforks and torches! We meet in Lausanne next week! Bach's ass is ours!

[Daisy]

i honestly wasn't sure if i wanted to add my two cents to this [again]  - but  here we are. as upsetting as this is, - for me - it's the rules.  my thing would be is that these rules should be changed so everyone has the equal amount of time to file an inquiry. But my issue is  - is the amount of inquiries in regards to start value was made during these Olympics. I honestly don't remember that many in Tokyo or in Rio. Why were so many made? The judges in gymnastics have access to instant replay, i'm assuming they are looking at it before they make their decisions so how do  you constantly mess up the start value. This needs to be corrected before the next worlds, and def. before LA 28.  The crux of this was - if the time had elapsed - the the petition should not have been accepted in the first place.  That at the end of the day is where it is at. 

But from the rules -you have X minutes. At the end of the day that elapsed. and yes it was 4 seconds past. but it was 4 seconds. and considering that medals are are being decided by 1.100th of a point, and 1.100th of a second - to say that 4 seconds in an inquiry to determine a medal is petty doesn't make sense to me. [MY question is - how did people know it was elapsed. like there is a lot being not said here, and it leads to more questions.]

However - if I am an athlete. (and I was one). I would want my federation to advocate for me to the best of its ability. That's what Romania did. [i'm not condoning the bullying and the drama about boycotting whatever that's just being baby and being a bully]. but the actual act of petitioning to ensure that everything was followed to the letter of the law to ensure that the right person won the Medal - i honestly do not see a problem here. [again. the actual advocating].  I'm really not understanding the pure vitriol in that regard - because I do believe if this was reverse, USAG would fully do the same thing to ensure Jordan was entitled to a medal that she earned [within the rules of that night]. Again the judges screwed up. and that's where my ire would be. 

I'm really sorry that Jordan and Ana got caught up in this it sucks total monkey. but I honestly don't think Romania is wrong here, whatsoever in regards to this. [again in regards to advocating for Ana. not for any of the drama-y bits]. 

20 minutes ago, roamyn said:

I'm sorry, but I'm on Romania's side here.  I thought it was utter BS they did that to Ana in the first place. 

If inquiries are allowed, them why can't Romania put an inquiry into an inquiry.  4 seconds is 4 seconds.  That's more than the difference between Gold and off te podium in a bunch of Track & Field events.

I do think the IOC can bend the rules and allow both to keep their medals, but it still strips Ana of that moment to shine.

in total agreement here. I think at this juncture - FIG screwed up. and the best course of action is bronze to both Ana and Jordan. again. I sort of see why they won't because it could open a big ole door of worms down the road but put procedures in place from now that it doesn't happen again - by ensuring you get it right after this. but this mistake cost Ana her moment - and soured Jordan's memories of a moment she thought she earned. the least you could do is give both of them something. 
 

[Conotocarious]

I certainly hope that everyone enjoys the litigious future of gymnastics especially as the scores are often decided by tenths and in a post-Simone world especially. Lawyers all around the world will certainly enjoy being thrust into the Olympic spotlight for the future.

[Maelstrom]

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

unlike diving (which is live/in the moment judging) doesn't gymnastics have access to instant replay?

If they don't already, they should have 360° cameras like taekwondo, so any inquiries can be examined at any and all angles, frame by frame.

What a fucking mess, one that didn't need to happen in the first place. Poor Jordan and poor Ana.

[Chaser]

I think pursuing an appeal not due to cheating or doping or corrupt judges but because another gymnast had her scores correctly adjusted by an inquiry that took an extra 4 seconds to file is petty. 

It’s in the rules I get it, but it’s a very bad look.