S05.E02: Under the Twin Moons

[paulvdb]

Quote

On the heels of their startling discovery, Captain Burnham and the crew investigate a seemingly abandoned planet in their continued quest to solve the galaxy’s greatest mystery. Meanwhile, Saru helps Burnham make an important decision.

Premiere date: April 4, 2024

[AnimeMania]

[NeenerNeener]

They keep reminding us that this is Saru's last day. If this were a cop show he'd be about to retire and then he'd die.

[Affogato]

3 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

They keep reminding us that this is Saru's last day. If this were a cop show he'd be about to retire and then he'd die.

Or end up joining the Academy as a teacher.

[PurpleTentacle]

If you know that your enemies have to come back to the planet to get the next clue, first you do destroy that stupid stone. It's something a romulan scratched into a stone, not some priceless artifact. And second, you set a trap to catch them there. Instead they just leave and let those guys find the next clue? How are these characters this insanely stupid?

Overall this was back to being boring and overly speechy. So after the promising first episode, back to its old form...

[MissLucas]

Prime Cat's Log, 7th life, day 2257

• First underling brought me back to former mate's shiny abode. I thought we were done with this.
• Former mate immediately insults my intelligence with stupid toy. One day she will pay for her insolence.
• First underling and 'former' mate start tiring, mopey mating ritual. There goes my hope of her remaining former mate.
• Where is favorite underling of the yellow pride?
• Nothing has changed here - underlings still way too busy talking about 'feelings' and tending to poisonous plants.
• Now first underling is getting even more mopey about long lost kitten from his prior pride.
• Kitten seems to be doing fine - not sure what the fuss is about.
• Underlings brooding over something looking like a cookie-cutter.
• Why are there no cookies on this ship?
• Apparently we're now on a quest to fetch missing cookie cutter pieces.
• New underling of red pride has arrived - delightedly grumpy, first good thing to happen since arrival.

Edited April 5 by MissLucas

[thuganomics85]

Ah, the return of Discovery's true greatest crew member of all time: Grudge!  Time for the queen to lay down the law!

With all of the talk about this being Saru's last mission, they certainly wanted to give off the idea that this could be the end for him.  Definitely tempted fate there, since that's how it normally goes on shows.  Thankfully, that is not the case and he is now off to begin his journey as a diplomat!  Imagine though that we will still be checking in on him since he's going to be still on the main base.  I'm guessing that's the case for Tilly as well since she's only temporary helping Discovery.

Since Moll and L'ak are bound to go back to the planet since they don't have all of the information, why isn't Discovery (or another ship) hanging back so that they can ambush them?  Wouldn't that make sense?  Have no idea why they aren't.  Anyway though, it now also sounds like Moll might be related to Booker's mentor, so I'm sure that's going to be a thing as well.

Rayner initially gets forced into early retirement due to his actions last episode, but after his assist here and how he does seem to be sincere about doing what is best for Starfleet (for better or worse), Michael instead asks him to be her number first officer.  Which he accepts after making sure she knows he isn't just a "yes man."  I guess we'll see how this effects the dynamics with the rest of the Discovery crew.

[Affogato]

Leoben creeps me out. I struggle with it.

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 4/4/2024 at 11:49 AM, NeenerNeener said:

They keep reminding us that this is Saru's last day. If this were a cop show he'd be about to retire and then he'd die.

Yeah, it did seem like that. But we are going to get to the wedding that was teased during the end of the first episode, so nothing better happen to Saru or T'Rina...

I loved the interaction between Michael and Saru. They have truly come a long way since they first met. His lines, in particular, gave me weepies; especially the one about Michael not needing another "him" but another Number One. 

How long are minutes in the 32nd Century? They surely seemed to be taking their time recording the Romulan message at the stone. Me and Tilly were yelling for them to hurry up almost simultaneously!

14 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

If you know that your enemies have to come back to the planet to get the next clue, first you do destroy that stupid stone. It's something a romulan scratched into a stone, not some priceless artifact. And second, you set a trap to catch them there. Instead they just leave and let those guys find the next clue? How are these characters this insanely stupid?

Overall this was back to being boring and overly speechy. So after the promising first episode, back to its old form...

Were you expecting them to be geniuses? Moll and L'ak don't know what they have; they just know that Starfleet and other folk really wanted that diary. Of course they are going to go to Betazed not knowing that they are missing vital information, like a piece of a map. I don't think that they will go back to the necropolis unless someone else tips them off about the map pieces. You can't really call Michael a Mary Sue for knowing about Romulan texts when she was raised adjacent to Vulcans and Romulans.

I found it quite strange that the Federation Council (?) bumped Rayner off of his ship because of what happened on Q'Mau. Yes, he sorta kinda placed an encampment in peril, but he ultimately helped saved them in the end.  Did Rayner expect Michael to throw him under the bus openly at the hearing? I am fascinated and interested to see how he and Michael will interact on Discovery now. At least he will get to see the mission through to the end.

[PurpleTentacle]

3 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Were you expecting them to be geniuses? Moll and L'ak don't know what they have; they just know that Starfleet and other folk really wanted that diary. Of course they are going to go to Betazed not knowing that they are missing vital information, like a piece of a map. I don't think that they will go back to the necropolis unless someone else tips them off about the map pieces. You can't really call Michael a Mary Sue for knowing about Romulan texts when she was raised adjacent to Vulcans and Romulans.

Micheal and Saru specifically said that they'd have to come back, yes would come back. That is also why they covered up the rock again, despite having very little time to do so. So don't argue, with me, argue with the show. In their internal logic it makes no sense to leave the rock intact and not to set a trap at the necropolis planet.

How much do you wanna bet, that next episode they'll show up at Trill, a bit later than discovery, because they went back to the Necropolis and got the clue from there?

Also what are you on about that Mary Sue stuff? I said nothing of the sort.

 

[marinw]

18 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I am fascinated and interested to see how he and Michael will interact on Discovery now. At least he will get to see the mission through to the end.

I predict conflict! Roddenberry would not approve.

 

18 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Yes, he sorta kinda placed an encampment in peril, but he ultimately helped saved them in the end.

Every other captain ever has done something like that.

[MissLucas]

Rayner is here to be the (idiot) foil for Burnham. He will sooner or later die a heroic death, so that Saru can return.

[txhorns79]

On 4/5/2024 at 12:39 PM, Stardancer Supreme said:

Did Rayner expect Michael to throw him under the bus openly at the hearing? I am fascinated and interested to see how he and Michael will interact on Discovery now. At least he will get to see the mission through to the end.

Realistically, it should be a nightmare.  We've seen Rayner doesn't particularly respect authority, and now he's accepted a demotion to work under Michael.  When Michael said she didn't want a "yes" man, I wondered why she didn't consider the smarter question, i.e. "if it came down to it, and Rayner didn't agree with her decision, would he still support her?"

Edited April 7 by txhorns79

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Realistically, it should be a nightmare.  We've seen Rayner doesn't particularly respect authority, and now he's accepted a demotion to work under Michael.  When Michael said she didn't want a "yes" man, I wondered why she didn't consider the smarter question, i.e. "if it came down to it, and Rayner didn't agree with her decision, would he still support her?"

In a very real sense this show is about second chances. Her talk with Vance would have shown her that his heart is in the right place. But it is a risk, Michael is a risk taker.

[Stardancer Supreme]

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Realistically, it should be a nightmare.  We've seen Rayner doesn't particularly respect authority, and now he's accepted a demotion to work under Michael.  When Michael said she didn't want a "yes" man, I wondered why she didn't consider the smarter question, i.e. "if it came down to it, and Rayner didn't agree with her decision, would he still support her?"

 

 

I don't think that Rayner was demoted. Saru is a Captain who agreed to be Michael's Number One on Discovery. Rayner is coming out of his very short retirement to work on Discovery. 

ETA: I don't think not having Rayner's support will hurt Michael. She is Discovery's Captain and is beloved among the crew. Rayner is the outsider here and the question will be how will he fit in with the Discovery crew to get things done.

Edited April 7 by Stardancer Supreme

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I don't think that Rayner was demoted. Saru is a Captain who agreed to be Michael's Number One on Discovery. Rayner is coming out of his very short retirement to work on Discovery. 

He was retired from being a Captain (presumably without a choice), and is now coming back as second in command.  I presume they aren't both going to be the rank of Captain, as that would make for a strange chain of command.   

[Chyromaniac]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I presume they aren't both going to be the rank of Captain, as that would make for a strange chain of command.  

Burnham and Saru were both Captains last season, as were Kirk and Spock for Star Trek 5 and 6.  Rank doesn’t necessarily have to be an issue.  Sure, we’ll see how it works with Rayner.  Yet even on Q’Mau (when they actually were still both on equal footing), he could have put his drive to complete the mission ahead of her plan to save the outpost- but he still did the right thing in the end.  He also could have just sat by here- but he stepped up to help Tilly and Adira solve the problem.  I think he’s going to push Burnham and crew - but unless this is some weird long con on his part, I don’t think he’s going to betray her, or try and take matters into his own hands.

Otherwise, I loved seeing Burnham and Saru on one more mission together.  I fully expect him to be back with Discovery by the end of the season - but if those two characters don’t get a chance to team up again, this was a good mission to go out on.  Regardless, I’m looking forward to seeing what the rest of the season brings for him.  Hopefully it’s worth him not being with the rest of the crew- but it’s good that Doug is getting a chance to continue to evolve Saru.  His character journey has been one of the best things to come from this series.

Edited April 8 by Chyromaniac

[Chit Chat]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:15 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

Overall this was back to being boring and overly speechy. So after the promising first episode, back to its old form...

I'm glad that I'm not the only one feeling this way.  I find myself watching the show and yelling at them to Get. To. The. Damn. Point!!   Let's move the storyline along at a snail's pace!  Argh!!

[marinw]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:22 PM, MissLucas said:

Rayner is here to be the (idiot) foil for Burnham. He will sooner or later die a heroic death, so that Saru can return.

He reminds me of Shaw in Season Three of Picard. He is sure to suffer a similar fate, but not before we learn about his traumatic backstory🙄.

[tennisgurl]

They really wanted us to be worried about Saru, going on about this being his last mission, giving him all of these touching talks with Michael about their history, putting him literally in the line of fire, they knew exactly what we were all thinking. Even Michael seemed to be extra worried, like she's seen movies and knowns what happens to someone right before retirement! Luckily Saru made it out alive, thank God. I hope that he isn't gone gone and we will see him sometimes in his new position and planning his wedding, even if this is his last time on a mission. I'm glad that he got one last chance to be Action Saru and he and Michael got to spend the episode together, I have always loved their relationship since way back when the show started. 

You would think that they would want to lure the couriers with the diary out and wait instead of chasing them around, especially as they don't even fully understand what they have, but then we would have less traveling around the galaxy! 

The most important character in the show finally returns, the queen herself! Grudge for Captain!

It must be weird for Michael to be sitting in on a disciplinary meeting with command and she's not actually the one in trouble. Looks like Rayner is going to be sticking around, now as Michael's number 1, which she probably sees as paying forward the chance she got back when the show first started, even if that was under very different circumstances.

[aemom]

Who was the in-memoriam at the end of the episode directed to?

[CarpeFelis]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:49 AM, NeenerNeener said:

They keep reminding us that this is Saru's last day. If this were a cop show he'd be about to retire and then he'd die.

Or just keep saying “I’m getting too old for this shit”…

GRUDGE!!! I was afraid we’d never see Her Majesty again!

On 4/4/2024 at 6:26 PM, MissLucas said:

Prime Cat's Log, 7th life, day 2257

• First underling brought me back to former mate's shiny abode. I thought we were done with this.
• Former mate immediately insults my intelligence with stupid toy. One day she will pay for her insolence.
• First underling and 'former' mate start tiring, mopey mating ritual. There goes my hope of her remaining former mate.
• Where is favorite underling of the yellow pride?
• Nothing has changed here - underlings still way too busy talking about 'feelings' and tending to poisonous plants.
• Now first underling is getting even more mopey about long lost kitten from his prior pride.
• Kitten seems to be doing fine - not sure what the fuss is about.
• Underlings brooding over something looking like a cookie-cutter.
• Why are there no cookies on this ship?
• Apparently we're now on a quest to fetch missing cookie cutter pieces.
• New underling of red pride has arrived - delightedly grumpy, first good thing to happen since arrival.

Love this! But my cats tell me the correct word is minions, not underlings.

[millennium]

On 4/8/2024 at 9:20 PM, Chit Chat said:

I find myself watching the show and yelling at them to Get. To. The. Damn. Point!!   Let's move the storyline along at a snail's pace!  Argh!!

If they did that, the characters would have no time to emote, empower, empathize, lift up, speak their truths or otherwise perform verbal tongue-baths upon the people they have lived with day in and day out for the past five seasons. 

 

On 4/11/2024 at 5:43 PM, tennisgurl said:

They really wanted us to be worried about Saru, going on about this being his last mission, giving him all of these touching talks with Michael about their history, putting him literally in the line of fire, they knew exactly what we were all thinking.

I would pay a premium for the season if it meant I could watch Saru blown into a million kelpy bits by a Klingon disruptor.  Maybe call the episode "Kobayashi Saru."   I HATE Saru.  He's such a vanilla nothing.   Chat GP has more personality than Saru.    Even Adira has more personality than Saru (and that's really saying something).   Saru seems to exist for no reason than to always be on hand to remind Michael Burnham how special she is.

Speaking of the whole Michael Burnham-ness of our existence, I would not at all be surprised to discover that Michael Burnham is the answer to the question she herself posed at the outset of this episode:

For millenia, philosophers and scientists have wrestled with the same big questions.  What is our purpose?  Why are we here?

It's you, Michael.  You are why the Progenitors first created humanoids all those millennia ago, so that one day in the distant future the precise combination of genetics, temporal mechanics, retconning and bad casting would align to produce you, the most special and perfect Mary Sue ever.  At the end of this series, we will undoubtedly learn that YOU are the most powerful force the universe has ever known. 

Let us fly.  Amen.

Edited April 20 by millennium

[Joimiaroxeu]

I just noticed Rayner's ears. Is he Romulan or Vulcan or something?

Apparently Burnham and Book are going to be just coworkers and not lovers. Sure. Even Burnham doesn't have that kind of willpower.

Those weren't very good drones if two-legged beings could outrun them.

Book was using the 32nd century's version of Tor, ha ha. There's always going to be a "dark web" it seems.

Oh no, Moll is Book's kinfolk? That's going to be messy.

Rayner as #1 for Burnham. This should be interesting since they're both so headstrong. Burnham doesn't want a "yes man" until she realizes her ego does.

[MaryMitch]

13 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I just noticed Rayner's ears. Is he Romulan or Vulcan or something?

He's a Kellerun:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kellerun