S04.E06: Yellow Fever

[DittyDotDot]

Sam and Dean have 48 hours to stop a supernatural affliction from killing Dean with fear.

 

This is a very conflicting episode for me, as are most Lofflin/Dabb episodes. Their episodes always make me wonder if their working relationship was one person write the case of the week stuff and one person write the character and "funny" stuff? Generally the character stuff works for me, but almost always the case of the week is just wrong. And, I mean wrong in the sense that it not only makes doesn't make a lot of sense, but just rubs me the wrong way.

 

So, I appreciate what Jensen does here and feel like Dean's story was fairly well written and executed and it has a nice balance with the humor and the heavy. But, I really dislike how Sam and Bobby seem to have no concern for the time table and sit around talking in Japanese and lackadaisically discuss what a buruburu is. ::Sorry, I need a little aside here...who the hell was doing the monster researching in S4, anyway...rugaru, buruburu...they sound like Raffi songs, to me! ::  and Sam seems far more annoyed by Dean's fear than surprised by it--which, I think, is what they were going for since Dean is never scared of anything. I'm also not fond of the way they road hauled that ghost and it feels like they did it just because it sounded like it would be cool. Sorry, I usually don't get too wrapped up in the way they kill monsters--because, they're monsters--but, I just couldn't understand why it was necessary to further victimize a guy who spent his whole life being victimized and wasn't killing people himself either. Plus, that iron chain should have dispersed the spirit and it shouldn't have even worked, but that's just plot wonkiness and I can wave that away if the character stuff makes sense, which it didn't to me. I sometimes think maybe they were trying to balance the dickishness out by giving the disease to Dean because of what he did in Hell and have Bobby and Sam act like dicks to save him, but then I worry that I'm giving the story far more complexity than it deserves.  

 

Anyway, I usually watch this one passively and tune into only the bits that interest me: the delightful reptile man is always funny to me; Dean's fears, both the funny and the serious, are well done and superbly acted by Jensen; little Lilith continues to be the creepiest thing they've done in a long time (baboom, baboom, baboom ::shivers::); I've been known to use "but I don't wanna be a clue" when I don't want to do something and of course most people look at me like I'm crazy (Hee!); and there's a very cute moment when Sam uses his ridiculously long legs to lovingly kick Dean and tell him to stop scratching his road rash...nice bro moment there. And, of course Eye Of The Tiger!

[GirlyGeek]

This one confuses me. On the one hand, I love all the stuff with Dean. Jensen does well with both the comedic timing and then physical comedy, and his scream at the cat and his face/delivery of "that was scary" will never not make me laugh out loud. He is pure comedy gold the whole way through (and my kids spent the next year making videos trying to emulate his Eye of the Tiger video at the end, so that is awesome... They were 5,7, and 9, lol)

I realize I tend to watch an episode, and not dig too deep into the first time I see it. So I spent the first time just LOLing. It was the 2nd time that I started to get annoyed with Sam and Bobby.

Why in the world is Sam not more worried? His brother just died a few months before and went to hell and he just got him back, and now he's got literally hours before his heart is gonna explode and all Sam can do is be annoyed and gang up on making fun of him with Bobby? I don't get it. Was this an actor or director choice?

And then to imply that Dean is a dick (and Sam isn't- even though he behaves like one the whole episode)?? Smh

All that aside, I find myself liking the episode because of Dean/Jensen, and Lilith is always creepy. So, this ep gives me whiplash, but at the end of the day, it goes in the like column, even if I don't like the message it's giving me.

And the thing at the end? With Sam's eyes? Yeesh, it gives me shivers

[supposebly]

I absolutely hate this one. Tonally, playing Dean's fear of hell for laughs bugs me. Sam and Bobby seemingly taking this in a rather relaxed way, Bobby showing off his Japanese is also tonally completely inappropriate. And I think Jensen completely overdid it. *ducks

 

I don't like the final scene. It doesn't feel like something Bobby or Sam would say.

 

The switch between Dean's fear being played for laughs to when it gets serious is way too harsh and I hate how they got rid of the poor ghost.

 

I like it when it gets serious, when Dean hallucinates Lilith and Sam with the yellow eyes. That's the only part I liked. And Sam hitting Dean's foot when he tells him to stop scratching. That was one of the real brother moments.

 

I think most of this one is down to direction and some of it the writing. Too broad and too slapsticky considering what we are dealing with here.

[pixelcat]

On 2/23/2015 at 6:16 PM, GirlyGeek said:

And then to imply that Dean is a dick (and Sam isn't- even though he behaves like one the whole episode)?? Smh

I think it was referenced by Lilith's hallucination, it was

Spoiler

because of what Dean did in Hell

that caused him to get infected.  At least in Dean's mind anyway.

 

On 2/23/2015 at 6:16 PM, GirlyGeek said:

And the thing at the end? With Sam's eyes? Yeesh, it gives me shivers

I've watched this episode a bunch, and I feel really stupid that today was the FIRST TIME I noticed that.  Dean looks ready to confess to Sam what he really saw, then Sam's eyes flash, and he changes his mind.  Creepy indeed!

[catrox14]

I really like this episode. And I think it's because Jensen does EVERYTHING in this episode. He is doing the comedy but IMO the only place he over does it is in the scream with the cat but that is on the director IMO. And when he encounters the dog at that opening.

But the rest of the time IMO it's a brilliant nuanced performance wherein Jensen really finds the balance of playing a character who is debilitated by fear and doesn't send it into camp.  I think it could have become a really ugly read on people suffering crippling anxiety but IMO there is a lot of sensitivity in Jensen's work.

[GirlyGeek]

So, if you scroll up 3 comments... I still feel like that.  Exactly.  I came on here to post and realized I had nothing new to report or any new episode insights, lol.

But, maybe it was just the slight inebriation while watching episodes last night, but I felt like Jensens comedy was inauthentic this time around...?  Hmm, it's hard for me to put into words but in comparing to the last few years, I feel like Jensen is making different acting choices when it comes to comedy.  i don't know if it's because he's changed as an actor or just that perhaps Jensen himself has 'loosened up'.  Or maybe it's that this seems like one of the last times we get boyish comedy like this from Jensen/Dean when in later seasons the comedy seems more bitter/sarcastic and dark.

not sure I'm conveying my thoughts properly, but it all somehow felt off.

and I'm still mad that Sam and Bobby acted like it was no big deal that Dean was freaking out.  Pretty lame.

[MysteryGuest]

I just watched this episode again, and I don't think it holds up all that well.  The concept was interesting, but some of the comedy bits were over-the-top.  It might have been funny the first time around, but not so much on repeated viewings.  

And I absolutely agree that the behavior of both Sam and Bobby was totally off, considering Dean had literally an hour to live.  Sam didn't seem at all concerned throughout the entire episode, really.  It was really off-putting this time around.

[FlickChick]

20 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I just watched this episode again, and I don't think it holds up all that well.  The concept was interesting, but some of the comedy bits were over-the-top.  It might have been funny the first time around, but not so much on repeated viewings.  

And I absolutely agree that the behavior of both Sam and Bobby was totally off, considering Dean had literally an hour to live.  Sam didn't seem at all concerned throughout the entire episode, really.  It was really off-putting this time around.

I felt like that the first time I watched it. Actually, I shouldn't even say "first" since I've never re-watched it. I felt like ALL the characters were "off", and I hated how Sam and Bobby stood around and discussed what they should do as if they had all the time in the world to save Dean. As it is, they barely made it. :( Bad writing, bad characterizations, bad directing. The only good thing is the impromptu "Eye of the Tiger".

[MysteryGuest]

The first time I watched it, I liked it because I thought it mixed the comedy and drama together pretty well.  But last night it just didn't work for me.  There were still some good scenes, but just absolutely no sense of urgency on the part of Sam or Bobby.  And Sam actually seemed a little annoyed with Dean's behavior, which considering he knew he was infected, didn't make much sense to me.  

[catrox14]

I've come to wondering if this episode was intended to be more about how Sam responds to Dean's plight more than Dean himself. 

Totally agree that Sam was pretty callous, and at times mocking of Dean's terror which was funny at first because Dean was a scaredy cat, but as the seriousness wore on I kept expecting Sam's attitude to change. There was a strange lackadaisical attitude from Sam and Bobby.

My headcanon is that Sam's attitude has to do with his overall downward spiral but it was just strange.

The only reason this episode works for me on any level how Jensen played Dean's slow descent in to a state of complete fear. I liked how Jensen played those quiet subtle things like not stepping on a crack or sidestepping when someone comes down the hall and kind of hiding behind Sam etc.

[DittyDotDot]

On 12/20/2016 at 8:24 PM, MysteryGuest said:

I just watched this episode again, and I don't think it holds up all that well.  The concept was interesting, but some of the comedy bits were over-the-top.  It might have been funny the first time around, but not so much on repeated viewings.  

And I absolutely agree that the behavior of both Sam and Bobby was totally off, considering Dean had literally an hour to live.  Sam didn't seem at all concerned throughout the entire episode, really.  It was really off-putting this time around.

I actually still mostly enjoy the episode because I think Dean's side is well done. I think they managed to walk the line between humor and horror pretty well in this one--it being funny at first, but as Dean's real fears start to come out, it's not funny anymore--and, Sam being somewhat bewildered and amused by it at first works for me too. I mean, I reacted similarly when my older brother ran screaming from the bathroom at the sight of a bee that I had to go take care of for him about a year ago.

It's only as the time table becomes clear and Sam is still so nonchalant about it that I get thrown for a loop. But if you do as I do and remind yourself that Sam isn't supposed to make a lot of sense throughout S4, Sam's side is less of a problem. I actually have more of an issue with the solution to the ghost problem than I do with Sam part of this one anymore.

[Katy M]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 10:22 AM, DittyDotDot said:

It's only as the time table becomes clear and Sam is still so nonchalant about it that I get thrown for a loop. But if you do as I do and remind yourself that Sam isn't supposed to make a lot of sense throughout S4, Sam's side is less of a problem. I actually have more of an issue with the solution to the ghost problem than I do with Sam part of this one anymore.

I figured it was just because one of them needed to stay calm.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I figured it was just because one of them needed to stay calm.

I thought that at first. Like Sam didn't really ping that something was really off with Dean right away. But it was more that Sam was kind of cold and mocking of Dean even as Dean got worse. Taking great joy in reminding Dean he was a dick.  (And really Kripke. Did you really think fans wouldn't think you were saying Dean is a dick in this episode.  W/E, Kripke).

Once Sam was with Bobby and trying to figure out it I expected him to be a little more upset and worried visibly to Bobby. It seemed like the only time Sam really was compassionate with Dean was at the hotel right before Dean hallucinated he had Yellow Eyes., but then at the end it was right back to mocking/teasing Dean.  And I wasn't a big fan of Bobby's to begin with and he did himself no favors with mocking Dean here. Yeah, yeah, I know. People tease each other when they are uncomfortable but Dean nearly died of heart failure and I dunno I would like Dean to have gotten a little more sympathy from the people that love him the most. 

[bettername2come]

I'd forgotten the gross scene of Sam getting hit with blood during the autopsy. The ghost sickness concept was interesting. Sam using his mom voice and telling Dean to stop scratching makes me wonder just how many times this conversation went the other way in childhood. Dean's rant is very entertaining. I like that even while terrified of a Yorkie, Dean is trying to save people. The hallucination of Sam as a yellow eyed demon is predictable, but still disturbing. Lilith is creepy. The way they kill the ghost is awful, but really clever. I'd forgotten this is the one where Bobby speaks Japanese.

"Dean, all we do is scare people." "Then you're a dick too." "Apparently, I'm not." Or it's the demon blood making him immune. 

"You're dying. Again. Loser." - I will always read this one in Regina George's voice. 

The best thing about this one will always be Jensen's thigh guitar solo.

[Iju]

i liked the subtle-not-so-subtle switching of sam being the big brother in this one. the more scared dean became, the more sam asked "Are you okay?" "What's wrong"? "How are you feeling?" which are usually what dean says and are the most typed lines for the show's scripts for sure. 

lots of bro moments here, but as i said it was switched with sam being dean and vice versa so that was interesting. me, my mother and my sister fell out dying at dean's scream. my sister immediately went back to the scene. it's top no 1 dean funny moment, next to when he was having a legit panic attack when bella stole the impala.
and if anyone tells me when sam and dean were walking in the hallway and dean was scared of the person walking by and grasped sam's arm like a little child wasn't adorable, i'll show you a serial killer.

"I don't want to be a clue." why does jensen deliver lines like these so perfectly?

the whole rant thing was funny but doubly funny because i noticed whenever jensen and jared have emotional scenes their accent really slips and you can hear a lot of their "drawls" lmao. 

i don't care much for the word "Dick", because i grew up most of my life never hearing the name or insult, but i understand that's it's a harsh coarse word nonetheless, so what i am wondering how SPN can get away with saying it and saying it often on TV, because i mean the count is probably nearing 12 if it hasn't reached that already.

dean doesn't seem like he remembers anything from hell, but it really terrifies him. heck that's what stopped his heart and almost killed him. i mean yes who wouldn't be terrified of hell but that's not what i meant. he doesn't have any memories, just past feelings. it's not even 10 eps so it's not like we need to delve in that just yet. poor dean is all alone in this.

okay but sam's eyes REALLY freaked me out. if those eyes are real, does that mean that azazel wanted to put demon blood in kids who had powers, so he could be reborn as them with superpowers?!? maybe sam's powers are bad after all, and he shouldn't use them because they activate the demon's blood for azazel's awakening? his death was so sudden and left loads of mystery, so i hope they uncover everything in this season.

oh and when dean said "I don't like the looks of those teenagers look down there" it went past me and my sister's head by 30 miles but my mother and father were cracking up. apparently it's from a classic simpsons scene. go figure.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Iju

[catrox14]

On 3/14/2018 at 4:40 PM, Iju said:

i liked the subtle-not-so-subtle switching of sam being the big brother in this one. the more scared dean became, the more sam asked "Are you okay?" "What's wrong"? "How are you feeling?" which are usually what dean says and are the most typed lines for the show's scripts for sure. 

Sam really bothered me in this episode. He was so dismissive of Dean's fears early on. I really don't remember Sam asking if Dean was okay until Dean flipped out and took off and ran back to the motel. I mean not in a super caring way that is. Sam seemed far more annoyed that Dean was being weird and he rolled his eyes at him most of the time,

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Sam seemed far more annoyed that Dean was being weird and he rolled his eyes at him most of the time,

Which was annoying because he knew why Dean was acting that way and was aware that he could die from it. 

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Which was annoying because he knew why Dean was acting that way and was aware that he could die from it. 

That's right! I forgot that part Ironically, Sam was kind of being a dick to Dean for much of the episode. 

spoilers for the rest of s4

Spoiler

You know I wonder if we were supposed to be side eying Sam's attitude towards Dean. Taht maybe it was a sign that his powers and hanging with Ruby was making him insensitive to Dean's plight?

Could the powers and demon blood have been making him immune the ghost sickness, rather than him not being a dick, which he was during the episode...ironically.

Hmm that might be my new headcanon as to why Sam didn't get the ghost sickness.

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That's right! I forgot that part Ironically, Sam was kind of being a dick to Dean for much of the episode. 

spoilers for the rest of s4

  Reveal hidden contents

You know I wonder if we were supposed to be side eying Sam's attitude towards Dean. Taht maybe it was a sign that his powers and hanging with Ruby was making him insensitive to Dean's plight?

Could the powers and demon blood have been making him immune the ghost sickness, rather than him not being a dick, which he was during the episode...ironically.

Hmm that might be my new headcanon as to why Sam didn't get the ghost sickness.

Your theory makes sense. He was immune to the Croatoan virus for the same reason so it's reasonable that it could have factored in here also.

Edited March 17, 2018 by DeeDee79

[catrox14]

36 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Your theory makes sense. He was immune to the Croatoan virus for the same reason so it's reasonable that it could have factored in here also.

Hmm you know maybe Sam having ever been exposed to demon blood at all made him immune to the ghost sickness. That makes more sense to me than Dean only being the one that scared people.  Obviously Dabb went sideways on the script if Kripke had to tell fans he didn't think Dean was a dick despite the script. LOL

[Iju]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Sam really bothered me in this episode. He was so dismissive of Dean's fears early on. I really don't remember Sam asking if Dean was okay until Dean flipped out and took off and ran back to the motel. I mean not in a super caring way that is. Sam seemed far more annoyed that Dean was being weird and he rolled his eyes at him most of the time,

i think sam still cared about him in this episode, even if he did come off as a jerk. he switched the floors of their room when dean was afraid, he asked if dean was okay right when they showed him in the room with the broken clock then asked again in the same minute, and he tried calming him down when he panicked about the badges. oh yeah and when he was arriving to tell dean about the sickness after he talked about it with bobby, he apparently stopped by and thought to give dean some donuts to make him feel better (i don't think dean told him to get them). all of this was before dean flipped out, so yeah, maybe sam looked like the bad guy here, but i'd say his actions were more loud than his exasperated expressions.

maybe if sam was scared dean would act differently for him for sure, and sam could have done a bit better than the show showed him as, but i'm not all that annoyed by it.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Iju said:

but i'd say his actions were more loud than his exasperated expressions.

Sam changed the rooms because it was only practical. Dean wasn't going to go up to the higher floors. Sam would be a monster to not change the rooms, so to me that wasn't anything particularly special on Sam's part. Anyone would have done the same if possible. 

4 minutes ago, Iju said:

, he apparently stopped by and thought to give dean some donuts to make him feel better (i don't think dean told him to get them). a

I think Dean had asked him to get the donuts but I could be wrong. But yes that was a nice thing. It didn't really do much for me though to forgive Sam being mocking of Dean's plight. That's what grates on me with the episode.

 Bobby pissed me off at the end of the episode too, for mocking Dean.. I would be more inclined to give Sam and Bobby passes for mocking Dean especially since Dean nearly DIED, like literally a heart beat from death and his mental suffering throughout.  I love the episode for Jensen's performance but the plot is annoying.

It's also really cruel IMO, what they did to the ghost again. That poor guy suffered twice for things he didn't even do. :(

I can understand Sam's confusion at first but to me once he knew that it could kill Dean and really saw how afflicted he was, .he should have shown more empathy and compassion for Dean. 

[DeeDee79]

15 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It's also really cruel IMO, what they did to the ghost again. That poor guy suffered twice for things he didn't even do. :(

Yes, that was awful! Especially since he wasn't a bad guy in life and was murdered in the worst way possible.

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I can understand Sam's confusion at first but to me once he knew that it could kill Dean and really saw how afflicted he was, .he should have shown more empathy and compassion for Dean. 

True indeed.

[Iju]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Sam changed the rooms because it was only practical. Dean wasn't going to go up to the higher floors. Sam would be a monster to not change the rooms, so to me that wasn't anything particularly special on Sam's part. Anyone would have done the same if possible. 

I think Dean had asked him to get the donuts but I could be wrong. But yes that was a nice thing. It didn't really do much for me though to forgive Sam being mocking of Dean's plight. That's what grates on me with the episode.

 Bobby pissed me off at the end of the episode too, for mocking Dean.. I would be more inclined to give Sam and Bobby passes for mocking Dean especially since Dean nearly DIED, like literally a heart beat from death and his mental suffering throughout.  I love the episode for Jensen's performance but the plot is annoying.

It's also really cruel IMO, what they did to the ghost again. That poor guy suffered twice for things he didn't even do. :(

I can understand Sam's confusion at first but to me once he knew that it could kill Dean and really saw how afflicted he was, .he should have shown more empathy and compassion for Dean. 

he did change room for practicality but when dean said thank you he replied "Sure", giving a sign that it wasn't a big deal for him. 

i don't know, i went to the scripts and checked twice, and went to the episode itself, it didn't seem like dean had asked for the donuts. i think the biggest tell tale sign would be when he threw them in the car and sam work say something like "um but you asked for those dean" or something like that. but hey i'm not denying it, your guessing could be as good as mine off screen. maybe dean asked for them and maybe he didn't. skipping the food and room change aside, he still kept asking if dean was okay emotionally.

dean DID die in the end (or more correctly, his heart stopped) didn't he :( but i don't think he told them that, all he did was talk about the cop. i think if he said that, sam would probably show the appropriate worry that he should have.

that doesn't go to say i don't understand how you feeling about sam in this episode. even with all the asking, the room change, the donuts, he did seem a bit unconcerned throughout. it probably would have made sense for bobby to tease dean since he didn't even see him and what he was like, but sam should have been the one to say "Okay that's enough, you didn't see how scared he was, Bobby." and i was genuinely confusing when sam just let dean run off after his rant, like he should have been tailing right after him in case dean's fear rose even higher. so for that i understand. as i said before if sam even sneezes wrong dean is all over him, sam definitely could have showed some more sympathy in addition to the things he did in the episode, especially in comparing in the last few episode of S3 when he was so desperately to save dean. but he  doesn't show much care with the disease? it's the small things that show you care, not the big ones sam. tsk tsk.

[FierceCritter]

Wow. Ok, so just now re-watching this on my own personal all-seasons re-watch. But it's an episode I  re-watch often because it's one of my favorites.

As I re-watch episodes, the next day while in slow periods at work, I read these forums to see what everyone thought or had to say about each episode. Considering how much I love this episode, I was super-surprised to see how much people dislike it. I really expected a totally different discussion.

I read these forums because I find the analysis fascinating. And I've had to go back and re-watch some episodes or scenes just based on someone having seen something I didn't even notice or fully appreciate (the end of "Nightshifter." The fight at the beginning of "Metamorphosis," etc). I'm admittedly a very casual viewer as far as what I glean from TV and movies. My basic rule is - if I'm entertained, I'm good. I've mentioned before I almost never analyze anything a character does because while I'm great at suspending disbelief almost entirely (science/reality/physics be damned), I never look at a character's motivation being anything other than "it's in the script."

So while on re-watch before reading this thread, the only thing that bothered me was for the first time, it dawned on me how awful it was to have the ghost "die" the same way he originally did. I'd like to say that I think it's ok because he'll finally be free to move on, and maybe even finally "get the girl" he loved so much from afar. But I  honestly don't, because that didn't happen in a script anywhere. So really, the only thing I feel is too bad they couldn't come up with another way, but they did what had to be done.

I love this episode because the way they chose to show just how abnormal Dean's fears are are so freaking funny. The cute little dog, the doughnuts, and especially the cat in the locker. OMG - I laughed until hoarse when I saw that scene, and sometimes even just bring up a youtube clip of it when I need a laugh. (Note: notice the cat was also a grey tabby like the kitten the poor dead guy cuddled earlier? hm? ) And of course, Eye of the Tiger is uh-MAZE-ingly funny. Ever wonder if Jensen thought maybe they'd actually use some of it in the episode? What makes me think so is he throws in the arm scratching. That's IN-character, the rest was not, really. Hah - that's about as analytical as I got about the episode for the most part up 'til now.

An observation following some of the thought about Sam here. It HAS always bothered me that Sam got the blood actually on his FACE and on his LIPS - but didn't catch the sickness? That never made sense to me and I didn't buy the "Sam's not as big a dick as Dean" explain-away. Only from reading these threads and everyone's insight did it dawn on me, this was probably a too deeply buried hint that the demon blood was at work here. 

Edited to add a point I totally left out: I have never analyzed Sam the way people did in this thread. I mention it because it was the most repeated issue people had with the episode - Sam's uncaring/nonchalant/etc attitude. It'd take the kind of analysis I have never gotten into. But for the most part, I just took his attitude to be such that he is not used to Dean not being large and in charge. So his exasperated responses strike me as being pretty understandable considering Dean's usual bravado. Adult or not, he's the little brother and as the youngest of 6 myself, I know you can get pretty lazy about taking the helm in situations, and feel a bit put-out and put on the spot when big brother doesn't carry the majority of the weight for a change. I did take the offer of donuts as a nice gesture, it didn't go over my head even before reading comments here. 

Anyway, as I said, I've re-watched some things based on things people say here, so all the commentary and insight really does help me appreciate some of the dialogue/action/scenery/etc more.  But I find it interesting that while I wouldn't call myself a "dumb watcher," I think my more casual approach allows me to enjoy episodes like this a lot more than some who analyze every single twitch of a lip, etc. 

And I'm not saying everyone who has a bone to pick with episodes like this over-analyzes, either. My brother in law is an actor/writer and is hyper-critical and analytical about just about everything he watches ("Nice set dressing." "His inflection could have been more questioning there." etc - it can drive you mad trying to enjoy a movie in his presence). But this is the episode that convinced him to start watching the show after years of my sister trying to get him to watch it with her. 

Anyway, I just felt like un-lurking and dropping a post here. I'm a few episodes behind and work is sloooooow today so I have some forum catching-up to do. :)


 

Edited September 22, 2018 by FierceCritter
Cat conspiracy

[Katy M]

@FierceCritter  I liked the episode, too.  I have a theory about why the ghost sickness struck Dean and not Sam, but I'm half afraid express it, lest I annoy someone.  But, here goes.  Frank's friend had said he was a bully in school, but had gotten better.  We didnt' really see any bullying on the sheriff's part either.  So, maybe kind of like a future episode, it's not that you ARE a bully (or a dick), it's that you think you are, and/or feel guilty about it.  And, of course, this was supposed to be a hint of what's to come in 4 episodes.

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, Katy M said:

@FierceCritter  I liked the episode, too.  I have a theory about why the ghost sickness struck Dean and not Sam, but I'm half afraid express it, lest I annoy someone.  But, here goes.  Frank's friend had said he was a bully in school, but had gotten better.  We didnt' really see any bullying on the sheriff's part either.  So, maybe kind of like a future episode, it's not that you ARE a bully (or a dick), it's that you think you are, and/or feel guilty about it.  And, of course, this was supposed to be a hint of what's to come in 4 episodes.

I actually agree with this in that it is how Dean sees himself. I think the issue, or at least my issue is that nobody fought him on it. In fact Sam reinforced it. It's been awhile since I watched the episode and it's one I've only seen once but I feel like Bobby contributed there too. It's one thing to have Dean see himself that way, it's another to have outside people see it and or say it.

[FlickChick]

IIRC, Kripke had to tweet out the reason for Dean being called a "dick" and that Sam obviously was not because that reason didn't apply to him. Since we - the audience - hadn't seen the reason yet, the whole thing fell flat, and in fact, created a very negative reaction from Dean fans. Not mentioning the reason here because it would be considered a spoiler at this juncture.

[The Companion]

I agree with everything here. The writers swung and missed a bit. I think part of it is messing with the chemistry of the characters and part of it was trying to make this funny. I suspect Sam was exasperated in part because taking it seriously would change the tone of the episode. It ignores his character in favor of plot. I do think there were some parts that read Sam (assuring him they had a good plan, for example, to keep Dean calm), but there was no urgency and that just didn't work. 

There were some good parts and some funny parts. Plus Eye of the Tiger, which is already my hype song (listened to it to get myself ready for the bar lol).

Maybe I missed something, but what was the deal with the brother talking about fear spreading? Was that supposed to be coincidence? A red herring? The line floated like an anvil. 

[bakerbabe]

I swear I’ve rewatched every episode at least 20 times 🤷🏻‍♀️ I literally just noticed that at the end of the episode when the boys are talking with Bobby, Dean thinks he sees Sams eyes flash yellow 🤯 it’s like a blink and you miss it kind of moment. 

[Nick24]

After this episode I should have immediately realized, what a disaster Dabb would be as a showrunner. Calling Dean a dick and mocking him because of his Hell trauma was just beyond my understanding.

Another round of "I hoped, but the writers won''

Edited May 22, 2022 by Nick24

[DeeDee79]

12 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

After this episode I should have immediately realized, what a disaster Dabb would be as a showrunner. Calling Dean a dick and mocking him because of his Hell trauma was just beyond my understanding.

Another round of "I hoped, but the writers won''

If it's any consolation there was apparently a backlash (I wasn't watching live at the time) against Kripke and Co. for calling Dean a dick and he had to clarify that it was just foreshadowing to his confessions of torturing in hell, not that they felt that he was a dick. Total BS in my opinion, it seemed like damage control to me.

[Nick24]

4 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

If it's any consolation there was apparently a backlash (I wasn't watching live at the time) against Kripke and Co. for calling Dean a dick and he had to clarify that it was just foreshadowing to his confessions of torturing in hell, not that they felt that he was a dick. Total BS in my opinion, it seemed like damage control to me.

Am I right, that this was the same Mr Kripke, who after this ep greenlighted another Dabb/Loflin disaster of an ep named ''After School Special'' with more than horrible writing for young!Dean? Either Eric actually agreed with all of this writing or he was so busy and had no time to control his writers.

Interesting, that the 3rd Dabb/Loflin ep Jump the Shark had very good writing for Dean and it felt like another person wrote it.

As for Yellow Fever, I find the concept of ghost sickness really interesting and under better writer (let's say, Edlund or Carver) it could have been really good episode. 

 

[Aithne]

I was around at the time, so maybe I can speak to how I perceived Kripke at the time through interviews and whatnot. I think Sam was Kripke's protag, but I don't think he disliked Dean (like Dabb) or had any serious favoritism toward Sam (like Gamble). I think he liked Dean and recognized how important he was to making this show work, and he clearly was and is close to JA. 

Kripke just isn't a super sensitive and thoughtful fella, and I think he just thought it was funny. He has a lot of strengths, but I think he has some blind spots, and he didn't quite realize how seriously the audience took Dean's trip to Hell. For him, I think it was a plot point to kick off the apocalypse, not a big character thing to dig into (note the difference in how Gamble approached Sam's trip to Hell in S6/7). 

So yeah. I think Kripke took it as a gag and was a little taken aback and concerned by the audience's rejection of it. But I don't think there was ill intent. 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Aithne

[tessathereaper]

Yeh

12 hours ago, Aithne said:

I was around at the time, so maybe I can speak to how I perceived Kripke at the time through interviews and whatnot. I think Sam was Kripke's protag, but I don't think he disliked Dean (like Dabb) or had any serious favoritism toward Sam (like Gamble). I think he liked Dean and recognized how important he was to making this show work, and he clearly was and is close to JA. 

Kripke just isn't a super sensitive and thoughtful fella, and I think he just thought it was funny. He has a lot of strengths, but I think he has some blind spots, and he didn't quite realize how seriously the audience took Dean's trip to Hell. For him, I think it was a plot point to kick off the apocalypse, not a big character thing to dig into (note the difference in how Gamble approached Sam's trip to Hell in S6/7). 

So yeah. I think Kripke took it as a gag and was a little taken aback and concerned by the audience's rejection of it. But I don't think there was ill intent. 

Yeah same.  I was around then too and Kripke always respected what Jensen and Dean brought to the show, it was just a case of not really thinking from a character perspective what this meant.  

[ahrtee]

39 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Yeh

Yeah same.  I was around then too and Kripke always respected what Jensen and Dean brought to the show, it was just a case of not really thinking from a character perspective what this meant.  

IIRC, Kripke also wanted AU Dean in WIAWSNB be a real low-life loser.  I don't remember who talked him out of it, but I'm glad they did.  

I think Kripke liked playing with his characters, and, as @Aithne said above, didn't always think through what that meant to the "real" characters (and the audience.)

ETA:  For those of us oldtimers, does anyone remember the mantra "In Kripke We Trust" that some used to use anytime something really OOC or off the wall happened?  We knew that he'd eventually explain things to make sense.

Edited May 23, 2022 by ahrtee

[tessathereaper]

LOL yes I do sort of vaguely remember it, I was always skeptical myself. :)  That said I always liked the guy, even when he was annoying me which is very different than how I felt about someone like Dabb for example.

[Nick24]

@DeeDee79, @Aithne, @tessathereaper, @ahrtee Thank you very much for your observations about Mr Kripke. Maybe I shouldn't have been so harsh on him. I just have a hard time to forgive him throwing Dean out of his mitharc in S5 and destroying 2-years-setup with his S5 finale.

Personally, I got the feeling, that Jeremy Carver was a little better for Dean/JA than Kripke (here you're apparently starting throwing things at me), because at least Mr Carver managed to keep Dean in his mytharc for 1.5 season and didn't transfer it to someone else.

[tessathereaper]

I didn't mind Carver, I consider him the second best showrunner.

[ahrtee]

11 minutes ago, Nick24 said:

@DeeDee79, @Aithne, @tessathereaper, @ahrtee Thank you very much for your observations about Mr Kripke. Maybe I shouldn't have been so harsh on him. I just have a hard time to forgive him throwing Dean out of his mitharc in S5 and destroying 2-years-setup with his S5 finale.

Personally, I got the feeling, that Jeremy Carver was a little better for Dean/JA than Kripke (here you're apparently starting throwing things at me), because at least Mr Carver managed to keep Dean in his mytharc for 1.5 season and didn't transfer it to someone else.

You're allowed to be as harsh as you want! 😀  You have a different perspective than those of us who watched it slowly, one week at a time.  (And I do appreciate that you have pretty much the same opinions as I do!)

IIRC (again), Kripke had kind of checked out by mid-season 5, once the show was renewed and he couldn't end it the way he wanted, so Gamble took over much of his work.  I know Kripke wrote the script for the finale, but it was someone else's story.  I think he was already on to Octocobra or whatever by then.  

I didn't mind Carver at all.  ((I think some of the Sam fans were the most against him.) 

I wouldn't have minded Gamble except for her drooling over Sam, but that was more visual than storylines (or at least Soulless Sam gave her an excuse.)  😊 The only showrunner I truly hated was Dabb, and that was not only for what he did to Dean but the show as a whole.  

[Aithne]

Oh no worries, haha. We were super hard on Kripke back in the day because of the mytharc situation too - I think he sounded stressed half the time he talked about the fans. And yeah, the WIAWSNB thing - so glad Tucker wrote that ep. She did an amazing job. That said, I can see where it could've worked, with Dean being a loser - it was a djinn dream, meant to keep him there. Nothing would've gotten him as fired up and absorbed in the false reality as failing his family and trying to make it up to them. (Again, though, I don't think that would've been Kripke's point - I think it just would've been something he found fun, since Dean is so successful and heroic in what he does in the real world.)

[Nick24]

23 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I didn't mind Carver at all.  ((I think some of the Sam fans were the most against him.) 

Personally, I don't think, that Carver caused any damage to Sam. IMO unlike the other showrunners Carver wasn't whitewashing him. Of course, there was the Purge speech, which raised inside me a desire to grab that Dean's beautiful toothy blade and put it through Sam's heart myself, but I don't find it OOC.

Also, I mostly liked Carver's sense of humor. Kevin's ''Eat me!'' in 8.01 and Crowley's '' Your brother and I were beginning to wonder if you'd hit another dog'' in 10.01 were stellar 😊

[Nick24]

54 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

 The only showrunner I truly hated was Dabb, and that was not only for what he did to Dean but the show as a whole.  

The only EP I probably hate more than Dabb is Robert Singer. From all I've read, it seems like he was responsible for most of the worst decisions on the show like dropping Dean's SL (Purgatory, Demon!Dean), making Cas beat Dean to death in 5.18, etc. I wouldn't be surprised, if that crap in 15.20 is his idea.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Nick24

[tessathereaper]

18 hours ago, Nick24 said:

The only EP I probably hate more than Dabb is Robert Singer. From all I've read, it seems like he was responsible for most of the worst decisions on the show like dropping Dean's SL (Purgatory, Demon!Dean), making Cas beat Dean to death in 5.18, etc. I wouldn't be surprised, if that crap in 15.20 is his idea.

Going to Bitterness thread

[supposebly]

Yup. Still hate this one.