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Josh and Anna

Dr Spengler

By Dr Spengler
in Counting On

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libgirl2

libgirl2

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The damage was already done, the molestations were twice confirmed and Josh had CSA on his computer. JB played along until Josh was found guilty. After that, IMO he was done.

IMO, there's no reason to believe Josh an Anna didn't make some good money off the show and in real estate. Certainly no where near what JB made, but a decade+ to make good money.

When the judge said "no hardship" it was known the breadwinner of a large family was going to prison for 10 years. J&A had and have plenty of money.

Perhaps but I still would like to think that JB lost a lot of money in all of this. 

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Zella
Zella

I just saw a news notification that the Supreme Court denied Josh's request to hear his appeal.

Zella
Zella

Yes I actually do have sympathies for families who find themselves in this situation. It would be heartbreaking as a parent to discover one of your kids is preying on your other children (I say that n

Notabug
Notabug

The thing is, when he was out on bail, the judge did allow his children to visit when accompanied by Anna.  Even though he lived elsewhere, there was no mention of anyone else being present to monitor

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CalicoKitty

CalicoKitty

22 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Staying quiet is really their only hope.  Every Duggar news story includes at least one paragraph about Josh.

Josh has really hurt his family.  Josh and his deeds will be mentioned in every wedding, birth and death notice of every family member forever.  They will never escape his infamy.  The internet is forever.

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libgirl2

libgirl2

6 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Josh has really hurt his family.  Josh and his deeds will be mentioned in every wedding, birth and death notice of every family member forever.  They will never escape his infamy.  The internet is forever.

I think it won't make too much of a difference within the family. I can see a few wanting to keep their distance and kids away from him, but overall, things will go on as they did. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

19 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Perhaps, but that money came from JB. He probably set up some kind of an allowance for them and continues to do so with Anna. 

3 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Perhaps but I still would like to think that JB lost a lot of money in all of this. 

I wouldn't be surprised if JB is managing J&A's money and has her on an allowance, but like Michelle said when they moved. "leave and cleave, baby".

I think JB lost something worse than money (or a very close second) for him. He lost his fame. He also lost his influence, power and respect from a lot of his Fundy crowd and naïve fans.

 

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AstridM

AstridM

12 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Josh has really hurt his family.  Josh and his deeds will be mentioned in every wedding, birth and death notice of every family member forever.  They will never escape his infamy.  The internet is forever.

They wouldn’t be if they didn’t insist on announcing private family events to millions of complete strangers, imho 🤷‍♀️

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libgirl2

libgirl2

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

  I think JB lost something worse than money (or a very close second) for him. He lost his fame. He also lost his influence, power and respect from a lot of his Fundy crowd and naïve fans.

 

very good point, they initially lost the show but with Counting On, started to slowly creep back. And then, it was all over. 

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I wouldn't be surprised if JB is managing J&A's money and has her on an allowance, but like Michelle said when they moved. "leave and cleave, baby".

 

 

I think they say that in theory but think of how many of the kids live on that compound. 

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Zella

Zella

4 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I think they say that in theory but think of how many of the kids live on that compound. 

I think, as with many things with the Duggars, this is applied very selectively. Basically, Jim Bob says it is "leave and cleave" until it is not in his interest to do so. I don't think the family would be so enmeshed financially and employment wise if he truly believed that.

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crazy8s

crazy8s

3 minutes ago, AstridM said:

IKR? Didn’t Jeremiah even move Jessa’s old mold house to the TTH property? WHYYYYYY?

Because it's free and makes Pops happy and if he's happy you can have 6 llcs and a sketchy flight school like Jer.

Joe, Jer and possibly Jana have some type of home on the TTH property. Jason was in the treehome and James in the armed fortress that seemed to be a shed.

No idea about Jackson, but after Tyler moved out I doubt Jackson continued in the boys dorm with Michael, Marcus and Mason.

Jed! and John have lived in housing owned by JB since they married.

Only Josiah, Justin and the married girls left JB owned property.

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AstridM

AstridM

10 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Because it's free and makes Pops happy and if he's happy you can have 6 llcs and a sketchy flight school like Jer.

Joe, Jer and possibly Jana have some type of home on the TTH property. Jason was in the treehome and James in the armed fortress that seemed to be a shed.

No idea about Jackson, but after Tyler moved out I doubt Jackson continued in the boys dorm with Michael, Marcus and Mason.

Jed! and John have lived in housing owned by JB since they married.

Only Josiah, Justin and the married girls left JB owned property.

Why should Anna’s boys be sleeping in the TTH?

crazy8s

crazy8s

6 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Why should Anna’s boys be sleeping in the TTH?

It seemed speculation on this started about the time Josh went to prison. All of a sudden Jason, James and Elijah posted about new living arrangements. I always thought the m kids had moved in and these grown ass adults shouldn't be sharing a room with minors or just didn't want to share a room with children

About the same time Joe's Duggar Realty started showing the warehome address as their location of Good Neighbor Realty and Jana or whoever posted that video of what seemed to be a single wide mobile home that Jana maybe lived in.

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quarks

quarks

2 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

And where did they get that money? JB probably. I doubt Josh made $$$ at the used car lot. JB has been supporting them for awhile. And we know it certainly isn't coming from the Kellers. 

My impression, which may very well be wrong, is that Josh and Anna used the money that they earned from the show to make a number of real estate investments, some, most or all of which were cashed in to pay for Josh's legal defense and later appeals.

I do think that Jim Bob helped them in various ways after the arrest - he seems to have been the person who found the Rebers, for instance, and he may have also asked the neighbors to write those letters to the judge on Josh's behalf. But I also can't help but think that otherwise, Jim Bob more or less stepped away from the entire thing. I think if he had paid for the legal bills, he would have shown up in court on a regular basis, if only to see what he paid for. And he didn't.

But as said, I could be completely wrong here. 

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Zella

Zella

I think one reason Jim Bob made himself scarce in court is his ego took a beating when the judge acted like a judge and put him in his place during his farce of a testimony in that pretrial hearing, with select gems like "If there is an objection to be made, someone will make it but it won't be you" and "This is not a debate" and declaring him not credible. 

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Notabug

Notabug

58 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Is Anna allowed to live alone with the kids? 

After Josh' arrest, before the trial; there was a lot of scuttlebutt that Anna and the kids, for whatever reason, were moved into the TTH from the warehouse.  Speculation was that it was because 1.  Anna was without her headship, so JB temporarily became her headship, 2. their cult requires that women be under the 'umbrella' of their headship at all times so they had to move in where JB could manage their lives properly in Josh' absence and 3.  JB was probably just a little bit concerned that Anna was going to cut and run once the perv went to the pokey and he needed her close by so she couldn't sneak off in the middle of the night.

Anyway, if she wasn't permitted to live on her own before the trial, I think it's pretty likely that she isn't permitted now, either.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I think, as with many things with the Duggars, this is applied very selectively. Basically, Jim Bob says it is "leave and cleave" until it is not in his interest to do so. I don't think the family would be so enmeshed financially and employment wise if he truly believed that.

Yup. And Josh was his first born, first to be married and first male to be married. JB&M needed to pivot a bit when Jill and Jessa married. Then the shit started hitting the fan which kept both JB&M and TLC on their toes, pivoting and pivoting some more. With each pivot came a different set of expectations and rules for the kids.

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crazy8s

crazy8s

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2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think one reason Jim Bob made himself scarce in court is his ego took a beating when the judge acted like a judge and put him in his place during his farce of a testimony in that pretrial hearing, with select gems like "If there is an objection to be made, someone will make it but it won't be you" and "This is not a debate" and declaring him not credible. 

I found myself wondering if JB was "going to allow it" when the Supreme Court declined. 😂

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AstridM

AstridM

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7 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think one reason Jim Bob made himself scarce in court is his ego took a beating when the judge acted like a judge and put him in his place during his farce of a testimony in that pretrial hearing, with select gems like "If there is an objection to be made, someone will make it but it won't be you" and "This is not a debate" and declaring him not credible. 

One of the greatest moments in legal history, imho 😆

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merylinkid

merylinkid

4 hours ago, Minivanessa said:

I wonder if Anna, Michelle, and/or JB are at all prepared to face reality now. Josh isn't going to be released pending a new trial. He's going to be in prison until he's served his sentence. 

No, no they won't.   At least not Anna.  She will hold on to "there is more to the story" until the day he is released from prison.   She will believe that Dog will find new evidence or have the "true" guilty party come forward to clear her husband.

If you think this is a special delusion based on Anna's upbringing, sadly it is not.   A lot of criminals' families believe that new evidence will show up to exonderate their lovved one even after appeals are exhauted.

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quarks

quarks

45 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think one reason Jim Bob made himself scarce in court is his ego took a beating when the judge acted like a judge and put him in his place during his farce of a testimony in that pretrial hearing, with select gems like "If there is an objection to be made, someone will make it but it won't be you" and "This is not a debate" and declaring him not credible. 

That could well have been part of it, but even before the pretrial hearing, Jim Bob was not exactly running around the country openly trying to defend Josh.

And he could have. He and Michelle previously went on national TV to defend themselves and Josh. Mostly themselves, granted, but also Josh. 

This time he stayed silent, and barely attended the trial.

59 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

If you think this is a special delusion based on Anna's upbringing, sadly it is not.   A lot of criminals' families believe that new evidence will show up to exonderate their lovved one even after appeals are exhauted.

Well, to be completely fair to these other criminals, there have been cases where convictions were overturned after new evidence was found or someone else confessed or whatever.  So I can understand why other families would hold out hope. 

I just don't think that Josh will be one of those cases. 

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jschoolgirl

jschoolgirl

(edited)
4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I think it won't make too much of a difference within the family. I can see a few wanting to keep their distance and kids away from him, but overall, things will go on as they did. 

I would think the younger siblings barely know him. And the same for his brothers and sisters in law.

I noticed how Jinger did not use his name in that interview linked a few posts back.

Edited by jschoolgirl
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crazy8s

crazy8s

1 hour ago, quarks said:

That could well have been part of it, but even before the pretrial hearing, Jim Bob was not exactly running around the country openly trying to defend Josh.

Hahaha no he wasn't. Instead good ol JB decided running for public office was the thing to do.

I don't remember the timeline there but damn that was a crazy choice.

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satrunrose

satrunrose

1 hour ago, quarks said:

That could well have been part of it, but even before the pretrial hearing, Jim Bob was not exactly running around the country openly trying to defend Josh.

And he could have. He and Michelle previously went on national TV to defend themselves and Josh. Mostly themselves, granted, but also Josh. 

This time he stayed silent, and barely attended the trial.

I think that Jim Bob's defence, or lack there of, had more to do with damage control to the Jim Bob empire than how much he supported Josh. For the interview, I think they (he?) thought that if they could downplay what happened into a silly childish misadventure, they could still keep not only the show but also the ministry (I've always thought that their religious job was more to keep the wavering fundies in line - see how well god provides for us?, rather than recruiting new folks). 

By the trial, we were at round 3, and I think even JB realized that there was no coming back from this, and if there was the slimmest chance for him and the family, it was to lie low and distance themselves as much as possible. 

As for the finances, I don't know. We know that most of the kids got conned out of their individual share when they hit 18 (per Jill's book). We don't know whether our favourite felon got the same deal, or pay in his own name either because he was the first to get married or because he was the crown prince of Duggardom. I do hesitate to buy into the idea that Anna can raise a large number of kids and fund pricy legal defences and visit Texas and pay the fines without any earnings for the foreseeable future. I mean, they would have had to earn a mint from real estate, the felon's DC job, the car lot and their appearances on the show to just cover twelve years of living expenses for all of those kids if Anna won't work. That's why I think JB has to be helping to some extent. I also think that helping with legal fees does make sense, despite his cheapness, because if jr's exonerated, I can easily see JB thinking that the show, money and fame will come crawling back 5 seconds later. 

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

(edited)

I think that JB - even if keeping quiet in public - continued privately to not only push the idea that Josh was being unfairly persecuted, he privately leaned like crazy on his kidults to support Josh during the trial. I agree that JB's own ego was deeply involved in all that. 

I also think that not all the kidults hopped on board the "support for Josh" train, but a few did. We saw that Justin showed up at the trial with his MIL Hilary Spivey, and was famously photographed leaving the courthouse making a happy face with a big thumbs up sign. IIRC David Waller was also part of Josh's courtroom posse. But I don't recall there was a big turnout of Josh's sibs in general.

We know that Austin attended at least part of the trial, as did Derick (and Jill after she was released as a potential witness). But they were of course NOT there to cheer on Josh.

One of the bits of trivia I remember about JB from years ago, was that he went to federal prison to drive Kent Hovind home when Hovind had served his tax evasion conviction sentence and was released. https://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/jim-bob-duggar-welcomes-home-notorious-tax-dodging-creationist-kent-hovind-from-prison/ 

I see JB as believing that he and his fundie cohorts are actually above the secular law, especially the hated federal government. I think JB has convinced himself that Precious Prince Josh will be a star servant of the Lord, bringing souls to Jesus while in prison. Like one of the disciples in the Bible. (Ya know, the one who got busted with a cellphone? Oh, wait . . . )

I think that's nuts. But I think JB may be thinking along those lines. I mean, tax dodging (what Hovind went to prison for) and possessing CSAM are very different crimes. I just don't think there's room for that fact in JB's head.

EDITED to add: I'm sure that having your adult child convicted of a crime like Josh committed, is a living nightmare for any parent. Perhaps by now JB has made peace with it in a less crazy way than I've outlined in this post. I actually hope so. But I've seen enough of JB's behavior to doubt he's come to terms with it in a sane way. And as @merylinkid posted above, it's not unusual for the families of persons convicted of crimes to live in a state of denial, regardless of their religious beliefs/affiliations. 

Edited by Minivanessa
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merylinkid

merylinkid

15 hours ago, quarks said:

That could well have been part of it, but even before the pretrial hearing, Jim Bob was not exactly running around the country openly trying to defend Josh.

And he could have. He and Michelle previously went on national TV to defend themselves and Josh. Mostly themselves, granted, but also Josh. 

This time he stayed silent, and barely attended the trial.

Well, to be completely fair to these other criminals, there have been cases where convictions were overturned after new evidence was found or someone else confessed or whatever.  So I can understand why other families would hold out hope. 

I just don't think that Josh will be one of those cases. 

Oh definitely he won't be.   But in some families, even with evidence like Josh's they think those prison doors will open any day and their loved one walk out a free man.   

Anna especially has to be living in denial.    We talked about it on here before.   What accepting that he is this way would do to her whole core belief system.   Better to live in denial than have your whole world view including your own identity destroyed.

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Jynnan tonnix

Jynnan tonnix

On 6/21/2024 at 2:10 PM, CalicoKitty said:

I had never heard of Crockett Doodles, so I looked up their web site.  It sounds fishy to me.  It's like going to a furniture store to buy a couch.  You order a dog by breed, size, color, and coat.  They are "family" raised which doesn't mean much to me.  That can mean it is raised by a nice family, a wild family, or left in a cage.  The site was not really very forthcoming on pricing, but I was amazed at how many doodle "breeds" they sell.  I got "puppy mill" vibes, but their site is very extensive.  They must have hundreds of "families" raising dogs for them.  Both my brother and SIL are into buying dogs from breeders.  I prefer to go to the local shelter and see who I fall in love with.  I wonder if Anna is going to be a "family" that raises dogs for a company like this.

How do you buy a pet without meeting it first?  I guess if you tell them what you want they just send it to you.  Like ordering a couch.  They ship country wide.

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