S04.E10: Perestroika

[paulvdb]

Quote

Tensions on Earth and Mars come to a head.

Premiere date: January 12, 2024

[tkc]

Some things about this show beggar belief, but I was on the edge of my seat for the whole episode. Knowing that RDM wouldn’t hesitate to let a character death get in the way of a dramatic moment, I really didn’t know who was going to live and who was going to die.

Not sure if the most satisfying scene was the Kuznetsov station reveal, Dani’s grandmother moment, Aleida and Margo’s reconciliation, the Lee reunion, or the unleashing of Chekov’s gun in all of its foreshadowed glory…

…or maybe it was the “Comrade Morozova, please come in” scene.

Yeah, it was that one. 😁

Edited January 12 by tkc

[PurpleTentacle]

This was certainly suspensfull throughout.

I'm glad that Dani didn't die, even though she got the classic "I'm only 7 days away from retirement!" last episode. Guess that was an intentional misdirect.

Ed really should have kicked the bucket in this episode. Oh well.

Glad Margo did what she did. After her outburst at Irina that probably was the smartest move for her anyway.

Speaking of Irina, she's not the sharpest tool in the shed, is she? She should have known that killing Sergei, while Margo was still on US soil, could very well backfire. Margo was liable to do something crazy. At the very least she could have elected to stay in the US and take a reduced sentence in return for sharing secrets about the russian space program. Then, after she lost an asteroid worth a few trillion, Irina actually went back to the soviet union. If I was her I would have asked for asylum right away. Again, not very smart.

Speaking of Sergei, to rule his death a suicide, the police must have been very incompetent. He wouldn't have enough gun powder residue on his hand and sleeve. Though of course the police being very incompetent wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

I really don't understand why this show is acting like putting the asteroid into Mars orbit would be permanent. Something you can put into orbit, you can also pull out of orbit. It still has a big ass rocket strapped to it. You could still send it to earth. I feel like we are missing a step here. We should have been told that/why it wasn't politically possible anymore.

Another thing was pumping the room full of CO2 to torture Miles. Are you telling me they are circulating CO2 throughout the base? That doesn't make any sense. What they could have done was cut off the air supply, which would have made the air in that room CO2-rich, after a while, probably more than an hour though. But what we were shown was the opposite, of them pumping the CO2 in.

Overall I was very, very underwhelmed by this season. If there is another one, let's hope that one is going to be better. Well, at least the final episode was good.

[ofmd]

I was bored throughout a lot of the episode, particularly the drawn-out Miles interrogation. I found myself rooting for Team Torture & Excessive Violence, which was a first for me.

I'd had a bad feeling about Dani for quite a while. She was shown as incompetent for no other reason than to showcase the egotistical a-hole mavericks I'm supposed to root for, she was drawn out of retirement for the job, and she had her return speech in the previous ep. So I'm glad she survived and got her grandma moment.

After a promising start, I found the season disappointing. Not as bad as the Danny debacle, so that's something. They often seem to build such interesting premises, explore compelling, unusual themes, only then to shy away from them and resort to tired old tropes. A fight for workers' rights which could conflict with the mission? Nah, no way to tell that story in acompelling way, you need a black market story and yet another dumbass maverick/ man child and an old space cowboy with his own agenda to make things interesting. Or a Danny, hell-bent on destroying a mission, or whatever. It's very frustrating

On a brighter note, I loved how well and realistically they portrayed the Margo/ Aleida relationship, maybe he most interesting and wholesome one of the show. And they managed to tell it with so few words... due largely to Wren Schmidt's fantastic, restrained acting. The love and respect, the anger, the final hug... Lovely and all very in character. Btw, what did Margo whisper to Aleida during the hug? That she'd be ok? I couldn't understand.

(I'm not impressed with the content of her final voiceover though. Yo, feelings! Shoutout to Ed, Miles, and Dev!)

Margo could have used those Brazil contacts right about now... Oh well. I guess that's it for her. A US prison is still better than a gulag. Which I hope is where Irina will end her days.

Of course, for all I know, Margo could be tried and executed for treason.

Also, Chekov's literal gun was kind of amusing.

All in all, very few people left for me to root for, let alone causes. It's all about greed (on all sides) and purely technological progress. Yawn.

Edited January 12 by ofmd

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, ofmd said:

So I'm glad she survived and got her grandma moment.

I was glad she got a happy ending, as I like the character, but she didn't exactly cover herself in glory this season.   

[paulvdb]

2 hours ago, ofmd said:

Btw, what did Margo whisper to Aleida during the hug? That she'd be ok? I couldn't understand.

"It'll be okay, Aleida."

[marinw]

So where is Ed in 2012?

I don't see how getting Goldie to Earth would end exploration on Mars and elsewhere. All the Iridium would help space travel.

Not the best season, but that was tense, with all the overrides and then overirrding the overrides, Its overrides all the way down. Goldilocks being successfully heisted was the last outcome I expected. Good fake-out with Dani.

Tiny detail: when Matho was doing the Perp Walk out of the Molly Cobb Centre, there was a photo of the Cairina Nebula

[marinw]

A couple of observation:

When Aleida drove into the Motel's parking lot, the sign said "Free WiFi". Also, Aleida's car and the other cars in the parking lot looked a little different and a little smaller than those in our own timeline.

Edited January 13 by marinw

[transitfan]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

AI couple of observation:

When Aleida drove into the Motel's parking lot, the sign said "Free WiFi". Also, Aleida's car and the other cars in the parking lot looked a little different and a little smaller than those in our own timeline.

Either

 

a) WiFi was widely available earlier in the FAM timeline, or

 

b) That sign was there for the motel where they filmed and they forgot to cover it up 😂

[greycoupon]

12 minutes ago, transitfan said:

Either

 

a) WiFi was widely available earlier in the FAM timeline, or

 

b) That sign was there for the motel where they filmed and they forgot to cover it up 😂

In the reddit AMA a month or so ago, someone asked if regular people have access to the internet now and were told no, it's still just gov.  So I think the sign was likely there when they shot it and they oopsied.

[Haleth]

Dammit. I’m pissed off. I feel like the bad guys won. Are we really supposed to be rooting for the hijackers?  I wanted Miles to get shot. I wanted Dani to punch Ed in the face. I wanted Dev’s smug ass to be tossed out an airlock.  It is totally out of character for Aleida to sabotage the asteroid burn. It was her idea to bring it to Earth!

Not sure I’ll be back for another season if there is one. I’ll rewatch The Expanse instead. 

[Cramps]

Wow. That was my least favorite episode of the entire series—for many of the reasons you all mentioned above. 

A few additional thoughts: 

-The Russians insist on bringing Ed’s cosmonaut girlfriend home to be punished, but then wave Margot’s immunity and let the Americans take her to trial instead of punishing her themselves? Didn’t buy that. Glad they finally had Margot realize that her life mimicked that of her Nazi mentor. 

- the episode was confusing 

-I was shocked to realize that in the show creators’ eyes, Ed was obviously still the hero who not only got his way, but who also seemingly lived and also seeningly wasn’t punished for instigating the mutiny and the shooting of his friend, the base commander! (Similarly, was Dev just wandering about freely at the end? )
 

The only storyline that held up this season was Margot and Aida. 

Chekhov’s gun was FINALLY dug up! Pity it was for this. 
 

I can sadly see why Apple didn’t rush in with a pickup yet. So unfortunate. I loved the first season so much! BUT- the further into the future this show gets, the worse it gets.

 

[marinw]

Agree with many of the comments here. I think Mars would have been important wheather they have Goldilocks or not. One of the many lessons of our current fossil fuel dependence in that any society should NEVER base its' entire economy on a single resource. Would he nations of Earth even want the Unobtanaium now? I could see Earth refusing to buy this stuff out of spite.

Jupiter and Saturn have SO MANY MOONS. Most of the Moons. Some have atmospheres! Some might have life! Let's go there. Its' as if the FAMverse got to a certain point, and stagnated there. Just like us. But on Mars in the 00's, not the Moon in the 70's.

Edited January 14 by marinw

[BetyBee]

It appears from looking at various sites, that many people are happy with the finale and eagerly anticipating Season 5. I feel differently.

I really don't like Miles, Sam and the rest of the renegade crew. I was disappointed that Aleida repeated Margo's pattern of disloyalty to authority. I thought it was foolish of her to take part in Margo and Sergei's secret meetings and communications, that it put her and her family at risk from the KGB. I guess the writers found a workaround that Aleida was looking out for NASA and space exploration, but I personally could not have gone the deceptive route to deprive Earth of this valuable asset. I have disliked Ed for quite some time, so I can't see him as a hero. I do understand that our own history and that of most countries, involves exploitation and that workers rights have been hard fought battles for a better life for....well, for all mankind! 

I don't know what to make of Dev's motivations. Surely he is after money and power and will achieve them by whatever means. Because the show chooses to cover years and years, the original attractive, young heroes have become old, grizzled and cantankerous. That's fine, but they failed to flesh out the younger characters. I think that's why Ed, Dani and Margo continue to carry the storylines. By 2012, they will all either be very old or dead. I hope the show can come back with a season 5 of interesting new characters, but I'm not holding my breath. I felt let down by this finale. I understand that many people feel excited and engaged by it. I just feel disappointed. 

[CarpeFelis]

So Sam pulls a panel off and it’s immediately sucked into the engine exhaust and incinerated. As soon as she had to use her tether to hold the handle open I was sure the same thing was going to happen to her. It seems pretty unbelievable that when Palmer sent her flying it didn’t happen, especially after her earlier comment that she felt like she was being pulled off the ship.

And what’s supposed to have happened to Sam in the aftermath? Not to mention Dev, Ed, and company? While we watched this my husband kept saying “they’re all going to prison”… though Dev is definitely not in prison in 2012. (Also, we never got to see what happened when Kelly inevitably found out about Alex’s part in the Great Discriminator Heist.)

How did Ilya know where Miles was being held? Did he follow Bishop there?

Margo was lucky the Soviets withdrew immunity. Any US prison can’t be as bad as whatever Soviet gulag she’d be sent to if she went back to Russia. And her involvement with the asteroid caper seemed almost as much of a screw-you to Irina as an attempt to keep the Mars program going. (I suppose Sergei’s death might explain why it was so easy for Margo to meet up with him. The Soviets probably figured he would try to contact her and followed her so she’d lead them to him.)

Edited January 13 by CarpeFelis

[FishyJoe]

I don't know about this season, but it would make a perfect prequel to the Expanse. The Martians declare independence and become Earth's adversary and the Belters are left to rot mining asteroids. 

[PurpleTentacle]

23 hours ago, greycoupon said:

In the reddit AMA a month or so ago, someone asked if regular people have access to the internet now and were told no, it's still just gov.  So I think the sign was likely there when they shot it and they oopsied.

In 2003? Then the FAM-universe is behind ours? Because I had internet in 2003. Pretty sure that was already DSL 1Mbit/s and I lived in a small town. (In some areas of Germany DSL 3Mbit/s was availible in 2003)

There wasn't wifi everywhere, but wired internet was quite ubiquitous.

Do you have a link to that AMA? I want to see for myself if they really have gotten this out of touch on the world building. I wouldn't be surprised though, considering everything I've seen this and last season.

Edit: Found it. Wow... now I'm not surprised about anything on this show anymore.

22 hours ago, Haleth said:

 It is totally out of character for Aleida to sabotage the asteroid burn. It was her idea to bring it to Earth!

I think it was a "Sergei's last wish" kinda thing. He didn't say it directly, but Margo mentioned this episode how he was saying that if the asteroid came to earth the Mars program would die and that he was right. They were both in a mode of "let's do something for humanity's progress towards the stars and fuck the soviet space agency in particular".

16 hours ago, Cramps said:

-The Russians insist on bringing Ed’s cosmonaut girlfriend home to be punished, but then wave Margot’s immunity and let the Americans take her to trial instead of punishing her themselves? Didn’t buy that. Glad they finally had Margot realize that her life mimicked that of her Nazi mentor. 

Yes, that was also a shower thought of mine. They should have let her go back to russia and stand trial there. That also would have meant they could have saved some face. Because now that she is in the US in court, she doesn't have to keep up the lie, that she defected because the soviet space program is just so much better, but can tell the truth about the KGB choking her friend in front of her and blackmailing her.

Of course, she is still a US citizen. So she could have refused to go. So lifting her immunity might have been the only move left. But, considering what increadibly dumb decisions all these characters make, maybe she wouldn't have refused and gone to russia willingly? We should have had at least a scene where she was ordered back to Moscow and refused.

10 hours ago, marinw said:

Agree with many of the comments here. I think Mars would have been important wheather they have Goldilocks or not.

Here I agree with the show. We haven't been back to the moon in 50 years. Mars missions are an order of magnitude more expensive and what exactly do you want up there?

10 hours ago, marinw said:

Would he nations of Earth even want the Unobtanaium now? I could see Earth refusing to buy this tuff out of spite.

Iridium isn't exactly unobtainium.

Since when has anybody ever let politics or animosities get in the way of money? I don't want to list real world examples, because that might get too political, but there are many.

Edited January 14 by PurpleTentacle

[HDJulie]

Remind me - before the asteroid was discovered, what was the purpose of being on Mars?  What was earth getting out of it. 

[meep.meep]

I was glad we got one final "Hi Bob"

 

[whiporee]

The Soviets made the only decision they could regarding Margo. Once she said she didn't want to return and she was turning herself in, they'd have been over a barrel. She had no ties back in Moscow, no one to be scared for, and was facing execution or imprisonment. So she would not want to return and certainly the US wouldn't let them take her by force. So they did the quickest hand washing they could. She didn't have anything to offer them anymore, anyway. 

I've never thought Dev was about money or power. He just had big dreams and wanted to see them play out. I think there's an inclination to equate money with malice these days, because I don't think there are many readings of the text that suggest he's been motivated by anything other than grandiose dreams at any point in the show. 

I listened to the showrunners today, and I think a lot of what they've said is that their world at this point would have moved beyond astronauts and engineers. The time jumps forced that, but in retrospect maybe they made the jumps too big, the tech advancement too much. For example, I don't think they could have developed Happy Valley to the extent they have in seven years. While I like the jumps, they never really talked about the ships that went to Mars now.

If they get a fifth season, I'd like to see it not about getting to the asteroid belt, but about the first interstellar voyage. Maybe Alex is part of the team that decides to head to Alpha Centauri, and they end the show with them just headed out to space without plans to return. Because as much as I enjoy the show, even I don't need to see another season of space economics and labor struggles. I think they were good themes for this one, but we've got The Expanse if we want to see how all that stuff plays out. 

And as much as I like the show, and I liked this season, and I don't think Ed is an asshole or Dev a meglomaniac or even that they did something wrong in keeping the asteroid for Mars, I watched season one the last few days and it was soooo much better. Every character was deeper, the stakes were higher, the dialogue better and so was the storytelling. So I hope for another season because I enjoy it, but it used to be a lot more than it's turned out to be. 

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Poor Miles. What the CIA and KGB agents were doing to him was worse than waterboarding.

Irina overplayed her hand. She knew about Sergei's murder and assumed Margo wouldn't find out, at least not in time to stop the asteroid mission.

Aleida and Margo had less than 20 minutes to fuck NASA and Roscosmos shit all the way up. Progress is not free but sometimes it better be fast.

Ed for the win with his old school communications knowledge. And Massey was amazingly brave. She risked going George Clooney in Gravity out there.

Aleida's flying fingers of asteroid heisting fate, baby! Only on this show does critical programming code not have to be tested.

Good on Ilya for going in with his buddies to save Miles from the torture.

Phew, the massive fight between the Mars workers and the security people was looking like Snowpiercer for a minute. (The movie, not the TV series.)

Dani got shot with Chekov's gun. Meh. Spumor had it that it would be Ed. Guess he had better plot armor.

Buh bye, Irina. Hope you like Siberia. Or worse.

Lee's wife! Finally! I was grinning like fool for him. And I really thought Margo would be going to Mars too. Maybe Aleida will work some politics to get Margo a pardon in exchange for her knowledge of Roscosmos.

Great season finale. This episode would've made a good show finale too.

[marinw]

43 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Great season finale. This episode would've made a good show finale too.

That’s what I’m afraid of. AFAIK, the show has not been officially renewed yet.

[Black Knight]

On 1/18/2024 at 6:40 PM, whiporee said:

She had no ties back in Moscow, no one to be scared for,

Aleida. But thankfully, apparently Irina never did catch on to that. Going in to this episode, I was expecting Margo to agree to return to Russia in exchange for Aleida being safe. Instead, she confessed to what she did because she saw Aleida was about to be in a whole lot of danger from Irina for sabotaging the asteroid mission.

Of course I loved Aleida just having to run to hug Margo.

I thought it was telling that Ed and Dev were hugging and celebrating with not a word to check in with Sam to see if she was actually okay and not flying off on a one way trip to deep space. They knew she was without her tether, they knew she'd been fighting Palmer, but in the end, neither of them gave a rat's ass about her even though she's the one who accomplished what they were trying to do. I expected Ed to go out in a blaze of glory in this episode, just like he wanted. How ironic that he was instead safely inside while someone else did all the dangerous stuff on the mission.

And please tell me they're not going to keep Ed as a major character in this 2012 time jump. I read an interview with Krys Marshall in which she mentioned that Dani was the youngest of everyone and she's now going to be in her 60s if she's back for S5. So what would that make Ed? 80-something? 

On 1/12/2024 at 4:54 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

I'm glad that Dani didn't die, even though she got the classic "I'm only 7 days away from retirement!" last episode. Guess that was an intentional misdirect.

Krys Marshall said she had told the writers before S4 that Dani should be killed off, for the gut punch of it, and right up to a few days before the finale script came out, that was the plan. They actually wrote her death and then changed their minds. I agree that that was the right choice, especially for this show. Like Marshall said, the show's not euphoric, but nor is it dystopian - it's more optimistic. It's not that Dani can't die, but the way it would've happened here wasn't the way to do it.

[marinw]

5 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Like Marshall said, the show's not euphoric, but nor is it dystopian - it's more optimistic.

I do like the interaction between Ed, Miles, and the Russian crew. Ed went from considering Russians his enemy to his friends, even if the Americans and Russians down on Earth are more like Frenimies in Season 4.

[Phillygurl]

I definitely thought Dani was fish food. They seemed to be going out of their way all season to imply her time was at an end. Let her be a retired grandma. Someone deserves to die of old age if that's what they want. 

I'm a bit bummed we didn't get any Ellen Wilson this season but I guess a former president doesn't really have any place here.

I agree with those who found Ed unlikeable this season. He was full on jerk mode with Dani(especially blaming her for Danny when she seemed to be the only one willing to interact with him), regarding the Helios workers (in the beginning when he was XO not caring if they could speak to their loved ones), and even his grandson. They gave him one touching moment in the end with Kelly but it was far too late for me to be able to empathize with this character.

I also agree they haven't really developed any of the other younger character except for Aleida. And where was Jimmy this season? I needed to see a moment where he took some sort of responsibility for what happened to Karen.

Will was there but seriously a very unnecessary player. Kelly is very boring and the only time I liked her this whole show was when she chose not to abandon her son with his strict, cantankerous grandma who may well have taken him to the Soviet Union (shudder). Who does that really leave?

I did not like Miles. The way he pushed Ilya out of his own business after Ilya gave him part of his profits was quite disgraceful. Didn't mind a bit of torture his way.

I agree no one seemed to care for Sam's safety. She was actually the one taking most of the risk. I didn't care much for her safety either but that's because she was also a pretty unlikeable character. They didn't take much time to develop her motivations. It seemed mostly like of the rebel workers were motivated by self interest rather than some selfless desire to see Mars develop, Sam included.

The mob scene was difficult to watch and I really don't like the idea that any of Ed's group would have gotten away with it. Shouldn't they have been charged with treason?

The only person I truly like was Lee. I'm happy he finally got to see his wife.

Ultimately, I don't see myself watching another season of this. Even watching season 4 was a stretch. Watching the rapid aging of beloved characters isn't exactly fun either.

Season 1 and 2 were the best. RIP Deke, Tracy, Gordo and Molly. 

 

Edited February 9 by Phillygurl

[AnnieBananie]

What an incredibly unsatisfying finale - they had so many threads to tie up and they didn't do a good job with 98% of them. 

I'm going to assume that Dev was left on Mars as punishment for his actions, a la Danny; is that correct? (What about Ed? What about Miles? What about Ilya? What about, you know, everybody??)

Good on Margo! Life in federal prison would probably be luxurious compared to daily life working in Moscow. I hope Irina gets a punishment as terrible as Ed's fake-ass old age makeup. 

(I may edit this post as I think of more stuff that annoyed me!)

[maddie965]

On 1/12/2024 at 11:34 PM, Haleth said:

Dammit. I’m pissed off. I feel like the bad guys won. Are we really supposed to be rooting for the hijackers?  I wanted Miles to get shot. I wanted Dani to punch Ed in the face. I wanted Dev’s smug ass to be tossed out an airlock.  It is totally out of character for Aleida to sabotage the asteroid burn. It was her idea to bring it to Earth!

Not sure I’ll be back for another season if there is one. I’ll rewatch The Expanse instead. 

Yes to all of this. Do the writers really think Dev and Ed were right? Even after they killed a bunch of people and almost sent some fine astronauts to deep space? Just because they wanted to live in Mars forever? Were we supposed to like stupid irresponsible Miles? Really? I hate those characters. Just kill them already. And let Sergei live. I want him and Margo to have drinks at my place in Brazil.