S17.E08: Divorce, Prayers and Spider Scares

[Crashcourse]

Back on topic, I agree with @Starlight925 that Brennan simply isn't physically attracted to Emily.  Sometimes, it just is what it is, without any psychological evaluation needed.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Crashcourse

[Elizzikra]

7 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

Back on topic, I agree with @Starlight925 that Brennan simply isn't physically attracted to Emily.  Sometimes, it just is what it is, without any psychological evaluation needed.

I agree with this but in the last episode, he seemed downright angry with her. I think at some point he crossed from a more benign “not that into her” into an active dislike of her. For now, I’m sticking by my hypothesis that he was really turned off by her behavior at the drinks party with the group at the end of the honeymoon (not televised but mentioned by Emily on after party).

[Hip-to-be-Square]

      I thought that Emily getting hammered with the shots and the grapefruit slices on her honeymoon was a bad look- and Brennan seemed reluctant to want to drink anymore and Emily kept pressuring him to finish the shots with her.  Emily is not going to age well if she keeps boozing it up. They're incompatible based on drinking and the lack of attraction to Emily is the final straw for Brennan.

     Lastly, I hate how these experts encourage and guilt trip contestants into "letting attraction grow"- if it isn't there, it isn't there.  Men are ruthless on dating apps- they don't think, "Well, I'm not attracted to her at all- but what if she has a great personality?", they swipe left if there's even a shadow of a doubt and I think women should do the same and if the looks and chemistry aren't there, don't waste her time or his time.  The problem with this show is, most of these couples would ghost each other after a first date, but since they're on MAFS, they have to go through with the contract and the process.  Can these couples legally get an annulment since filming is so short and some haven't even consummated the marriage? 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Hip-to-be-Square

[princelina]

35 minutes ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

 Lastly, I hate how these experts encourage and guilt trip contestants into "letting attraction grow"- if it isn't there, it isn't there.  

I'll just keep beating this dead horse - - - when the show started the premise was that they had "done everything" to find love, so they were supposed to be open to being matched by "experts" and giving the relationship a chance rather than bailing like they typically would.  So saying "I'm not attracted" at the beginning of the "process" shouldn't be an option.

[Jodyj]

Orion and Lauren. They never spoke to each other like normal people. It was like they instantly started tiptoeing around each other and how to talk because they were the "bi racial couple" 

There was never a normal happy conversation. Everything was about grace and it just sounded like the conversations were hard and jerky. 

Orion had stated that strong woman make him nervous and he didn't want that yet he got a uber strong woman. 

I think they could have made it if they both had just acted like their real selves. Because lets be honest those two people were exhausting to listen to. I think they both did themselves a disservice. 

[JenE4]

54 minutes ago, Jodyj said:

Orion and Lauren. They never spoke to each other like normal people. It was like they instantly started tiptoeing around each other and how to talk because they were the "bi racial couple" 

There was never a normal happy conversation. Everything was about grace and it just sounded like the conversations were hard and jerky. 

Orion had stated that strong woman make him nervous and he didn't want that yet he got a uber strong woman. 

I think they could have made it if they both had just acted like their real selves. Because let’s be honest those two people were exhausting to listen to. I think they both did themselves a disservice. 

Yes! Every conversation (that we saw) was like a corporate DEI seminar hosted by HR.

[Empress1]

16 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I agree with this but in the last episode, he seemed downright angry with her. I think at some point he crossed from a more benign “not that into her” into an active dislike of her. For now, I’m sticking by my hypothesis that he was really turned off by her behavior at the drinks party with the group at the end of the honeymoon (not televised but mentioned by Emily on after party).

Yeah, it’s more than a lack of physical attraction. He doesn’t like her as a person. He said he felt “drained” after being with her on the honeymoon. The vibe isn’t “I think she’s nice but I’m not really feeling it” (that’s Austin’s vibe toward Becca), it’s “I can’t stand her and don’t want to be around her at all.”

12 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Yes! Every conversation (that we saw) was like a corporate DEI seminar hosted by HR.

And those SUCK.

[StatisticalOutlier]

20 hours ago, Hip-to-be-Square said:

Lastly, I hate how these experts encourage and guilt trip contestants into "letting attraction grow"- if it isn't there, it isn't there.  Men are ruthless on dating apps- they don't think, "Well, I'm not attracted to her at all- but what if she has a great personality?", they swipe left if there's even a shadow of a doubt and I think women should do the same and if the looks and chemistry aren't there, don't waste her time or his time. 

While I, too, hate how Pastor Cal in particular tells people to let attraction grow, or fake it until you make it, or whatever, I have to acknowledge that I once worked in a cubicle where the opening was across from the opening to this guy's cubicle, and we became friends.  Suddenly two years later I saw him with different, and very unexpected, eyes.  I summoned up the courage to tell him, and we were together for like five years.

So I know for a fact that attraction can grow, and appear out of nowhere, but I still don't like Pastor Cal's exhortations.

Quote

Can these couples legally get an annulment since filming is so short and some haven't even consummated the marriage? 

This comes up pretty much every season.  State laws vary on the requirements for an annulment, but they're generally based on the existence of deceit or fraud perpetrated by one party on the other, and lack of consummation has nothing to do with it, even though you hear that all the time.

(What is it about marriage?  You also hear that people are declared common law married if they live together for X years even though that's never the case.)

[Chatty Cake]

I was so put off by Orion. A man that ugly needs to have a nice and fun personality and he has neither! Despite this Lauren still gave him a chance and was nice to him. He definitely gaslit her and all around sucked. I want to demand a nice guy on her behalf immediately. 
Brennan seemed nice on the honeymoon but didn’t get exactly what he wanted physically so now he wants to bolt. I think it’s terrible that she asked him what it is about her that is a turn off and he says he can’t say because it will hurt her. Fool! You don’t think that in itself is hurtful? Now she’s imagining that she’s a little too thick or not quite pretty enough while he holds the cards in whatever is left to the relationship. 
The quirky guy is checking out too although a little slower. 
The Australian guy seems to be in it but I doubt that will last. Another doomed season in my opinion.

[Elizzikra]

31 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

While I, too, hate how Pastor Cal in particular tells people to let attraction grow, or fake it until you make it, or whatever, I have to acknowledge that I once worked in a cubicle where the opening was across from the opening to this guy's cubicle, and we became friends.  Suddenly two years later I saw him with different, and very unexpected, eyes.  I summoned up the courage to tell him, and we were together for like five years.

So I know for a fact that attraction can grow, and appear out of nowhere, but I still don't like Pastor Cal's exhortations.

This comes up pretty much every season.  State laws vary on the requirements for an annulment, but they're generally based on the existence of deceit or fraud perpetrated by one party on the other, and lack of consummation has nothing to do with it, even though you hear that all the time.

(What is it about marriage?  You also hear that people are declared common law married if they live together for X years even though that's never the case.)

I’m pretty sure at least one couple had their marriage annulled - Meka and Michael, maybe? I don’t remember much about her but he lied about literally everything - he was a teacher; a yoga instructor; he got a new job; etc. etc.

[StatisticalOutlier]

4 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I’m pretty sure at least one couple had their marriage annulled - Meka and Michael, maybe? I don’t remember much about her but he lied about literally everything - he was a teacher; a yoga instructor; he got a new job; etc. etc.

Two couples from the same season have had their marriages annulled, and my recollection is that it was the same judge in both cases.  There was no opinion issued but one of the women did a verbal account of the hearing and it seemed to be a case of the judge saying, "Eh, nobody's harmed if I grant this annulment so I'll do it" even though it didn't actually meet the requirements of the statute.  I don't remember which woman it was, but even she seemed pretty confused about the whole thing, and was concerned only about the result.

Annulment is a strange situation in the MAFS scenario because annulment is a remedy for being induced into marriage by fraud, in which case the marriage is considered never to have existed.  But with MAFS, the participants aren't tricked into marrying someone--they agree to marry the stranger without knowing anything about them. 

A MAFS marriage is completely outside the typical marriage situation, where two people who know each other agree to marry each other; in that case, if one of them has been lying about things that would have caused the other party to refuse to marry them, then there might be grounds for an annulment. 

And generally, things that happen after the marriage (e.g. adultery or lying about losing your job) aren't grounds for annulment because annulment goes to the validity of the marriage when the marriage was entered into.  What happens afterward doesn't matter; that's what divorce is for.

[Lindz]

This experiment isn't for superficial quitters. It shouldn't be. Surely the show tried to exclude those types. Surely. 🤣 Orion sure talked a good game, but meant none of it. Seems like Brennan did the same. I just don't understand how being MAFS is supposed to stop them from doing what they normally do, run away. A piece of paper is supposed to stop that, huh? Yeah right. Again. These types should be excluded. People who actually see things through and can look past looks are who should be in this experiment.

[Shrek]

12 hours ago, Lindz said:

This experiment isn't for superficial quitters. It shouldn't be. Surely the show tried to exclude those types. Surely. 🤣 Orion sure talked a good game, but meant none of it. Seems like Brennan did the same. I just don't understand how being MAFS is supposed to stop them from doing what they normally do, run away. A piece of paper is supposed to stop that, huh? Yeah right. Again. These types should be excluded. People who actually see things through and can look past looks are who should be in this experiment.

It's exactly for this reason I think they need to go to the Australian way where the couples can't legally get married anyway. The UK version is the same.

[cinsays]

On 12/7/2023 at 12:17 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

I'm pulling this out of your post to emphasize it.  It surprised me that they can decline, but the host said they'd asked Brennan to be on multiple times and he refused.

Which made me appreciate Orion a little bit, because the host is downright mean to him, and yet he keeps coming back even though he's not contractually required to.  Then again, maybe as others have said he just wants to be on teevee and is willing to take it in order to achieve that goal.

but why would he want to be on tv?  surely he must know that he comes across as strange, unattractive and kind of mean to Lauren

[psychoticstate]

Ugh.  This show.

I really wish the "experts" would step in and expert themselves before everything snowballs - although I don't recall so many clusterf*cks before the couples even move in together.  

While I think Lauren and Orion were a poor match from the start, they are a clear example of why, during the honeymoon, the couples should act as if they are on first dates and not have these in-depth serious convos that can and should be saved until later.  You're on your honeymoon!  Just have fun and get to know each other on a more surface-level basis.   I mean, you met this person less than a week ago; you don't have to be talking about religion and politics, etc.  

I honestly don't know the truth about Orion but it seems pretty clear that the racial thing was nothing but a Hail Mary.  I'm pretty pissed that no one has confronted him about the fact that he said the "n" word, which is just as egregious as Lauren questioning redskin.  Actually, it may be worse because while some people may not know the history of redskin, almost everyone knows about the "n" word.  In any event, Lauren should consider herself lucky that she only had to spend seven days with Orion and write it off as a lesson learned.  

I think that Pastor Cal was wrong to ask Brennan in front of Emily what he did not like about her.  Dude, seriously.  Have this convo in another room with just Brennan and then feel free to ask.  I'm not sure I believe that Brennan was never attracted to Emily; if that's true, he's a fairly decent actor.  I'm wondering if, after spending seven days with her, he saw how much she drank.  She did seem to be drinking quite a bit.  I also wonder if she fell and hurt her hand because she was drunk.  Personally, that would turn me off someone -- especially someone who is pushing 30.  Bad enough when you're 21 but if you're still doing this at 30, it's a lifestyle choice for you.  Brennan also mentioned that his parents fought quite a bit and his dad was a vodka drinker (if I'm remembering correctly).  Makes me wonder if alcohol played a part in his family dynamics.  If so, then I could understand why he'd be hesitant to have a party girl for a wife - and especially if he was looking for someone more serious.   And I can also understand why he didn't want to get into the things he doesn't like about Emily if they had anything to do with her drinking.  

That said, I think Emily seems like a nice girl -- and I say this as someone who did not like her at all in the first episode.  She really needs to find herself a good therapist and realize that maybe she's been ghosted so many times because she's being a party girl when the men she's with don't want that.  (And she also needs some new friends who are more friends than frenemies.)    

I had hope for Becca and Austin but that's faded after Austin making comments about not moving in together after Decision Day.  That never bodes well.   No idea if he's just really thinking about things after seven days, or if Becca is tiring after seven days, or if their serious discussions (here we go again) played into it.  But once again, maybe save the serious talks about religion and kids and health until after the first month passes or something.   In the real world, I would say these discussion might scare someone off but these are folks on MAFS, so they've skipped the whole dating thing.  

I think Cameron and Clare could potentially make it, if Clare would loosen up a little bit and just relax and try to get to know Cameron and enjoy her time with him.  Didn't she say she was a therapist or a counselor?  Seems ironic, given that she has such a difficult time communicating with him.  He seems like a nice, fun guy to me who is honestly giving this "experiment" a shot.  Maybe he'll take Clare out to get a bike with a frame that actually fits her and she'll see what he's very passionate about and they can get on some common ground.  At this point, they are the only couple that may have a chance.   

[cinsays]

On 12/8/2023 at 9:04 AM, Shauna said:

I think they should be required to be on the After Party and required to move in together straight after the honeymoon--no taking 3 or 4 days to go back to your house to do I-don't-know-what. 

I agree with you on Cam and Clare.  I really like him and his sense of humor.  And yes, Clare think she's better than him.  He seems like a really nice guy.  I hate Clare's lips.  They're stupid. 

I think Austin is slowly getting over Becca and really isn't into her like she is into him.  He's the one with the heavy beard and 189 baseball caps. 

I didn't like Emily at first, but she's grown on me.  Brennan (I honestly didn't know this was a man's name) is an asshole. 

totally agree that they should have to go on the after party and have to move into the apartment together.  if they won't, they're kicked off the show

i really like becca, but just hate that this guy has to wear the dumb baseball caps all the time. don't men outgrow that stage?

clare's lips?

[Hip-to-be-Square]

6 minutes ago, cinsays said:

i really like becca, but just hate that this guy has to wear the dumb baseball caps all the time. don't men outgrow that stage?

clare's lips?

Yeah, the backwards baseball caps are not a good look and its rude for men to wear hats indoors. Clare's lips are a little ducky 🦆 looking and the lip filler migration into her philtrum is pretty noticeable when I see her side profile, hopefully she can have the filler dissolved. 

[Lindz]

Emily kind of proved Brennan right. He refused to say what he thought would hurt her & no answer meant no. She said he couldn't hurt her feelings by being honest, then went & cried to the camera about him not being attracted to her. 🤷‍♀️ Hold it together girl! 🤦‍♂️

[Lindz]

I don't understand saving serious topics for later. People should be able to discuss serious topics at any point. I don't think Orion would've handled that stuff any better. He looks to be offended and have issues. A runner's gunna find reasons to run. A stayer's gunna stay. Abuse, for example, I think would probably be tolerated by a stayer at any point, no matter how easy or difficult it is to leave. That's why people need a healthy balance. Serious dealbreakers vs workable things. Maybe it's types of people: superficial vs deep. Is it, "I like you enough to keep going (after potentially learning something I dislike)" &/or "we have good communication, let's tackle a serious topic"? I get familiarity, comfortability, & building like & that's needed to discuss certain topics involving both people. What's the tactic in delaying conversations? Hope they're invested enough to stay? 🤔🤨🧐 Could just be delaying the inevitable. 🤷‍♀️

[Shauna]

20 hours ago, cinsays said:

totally agree that they should have to go on the after party and have to move into the apartment together.  if they won't, they're kicked off the show

i really like becca, but just hate that this guy has to wear the dumb baseball caps all the time. don't men outgrow that stage?

clare's lips?

Clare has fillers or whatever they're called.   They look unnatural.  Good on a duck, but not on a person. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

On 12/13/2023 at 12:48 PM, psychoticstate said:

Brennan also mentioned that his parents fought quite a bit and his dad was a vodka drinker (if I'm remembering correctly). 

What I remember is that he said his dad doesn't drink water--he drinks vodka.