S01.E05: The Founders' Society

[Athena]

Quote

Frasier joins Alan and Olivia as they seek membership in the university's prestigious “Founders’ Society.” Meanwhile, David digs into Freddy's personal life for a surprising reason.

 

[Athena]

Getting better for me. I was engaged in the Frasier A plot because both Alan and Olivia get one over him. Frasier is best when he is challenged by others. I like the actors. I think the chemistry is starting to develop really well between all of three of them. I enjoy Olivia and Alan's friendship too; it's very cute how she wants them to go ice skating. It was cheap but I actually laughed at Frasier pimping Freddy out.

The plot B was okay. I still need more from the younger cast. I like that Freddy reads and he does seem like a good friend. David is still fairly one note and will take even longer to develop at this rate. Also are they trying to make Freddy/Eve the end pairing? Not really seeing that yet.

[paigow]

David picked up his own multiverse variant in the bar... TV needs more Lincoln jokes..

[AnnaCody]

Boston (and Cambridge too I suspect) has amazing penthouses.  I know Frasier's apartment in Seattle was not the penthouse but it was truly stunning.  Now that he can buy buildings, why isn't he in the Penthouse? 

His current apartment doesn't even have a view.  Why?  I was really looking forward to another amazing apartment. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by AnnaCody

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Athena said:

Getting better for me.

Yes. I thought with this episode it finally hit its stride.

The camera angle on Freddy and David when they were seated alone on the couch really made them look like they could be brothers, or at least cousins.

[paigow]

Maybe the building is in Dorchester... Then the only view would be Casa Wahlberg

[Twilight Man]

The first part of the main plot reminded me of the original episode where 

Frasier and Niles discover that there is only one spot available in an 

exclusive club in Seattle, and they both spend the night sabotaging each other. 

Fortunately, the second part was different and I enjoyed this resolution actually better.

10 hours ago, Athena said:

Frasier is best when he is challenged by others.

Frasier constantly being "befuddled" by Woody's "approach" at life was

always some of my favorite moments on "Cheers".

Edited November 2, 2023 by Twilight Man

[Guest]

That was much better across the board. I hated Olivia in previous episodes but she was great here. 

I think I’m always going to have a problem with David but he’s bothering me less. 

It really feels like they have no clue what to do with David, Eve and Freddy other than sticking Freddy and Eve in a relationship. 

5 hours ago, AnnaCody said:

Now that he can buy buildings, why isn't he in the Penthouse?

Because the penthouse isn’t across the hall from where Freddy was living. 

[Magnumfangirl]

I liked the David/Freddy/Eve story.  It was silly, but it made me laugh.  I'm liking the younger cast more than the older one; except for Kelsey, of course.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Magnumfangirl

[opus]

8 hours ago, paigow said:

TV needs more Lincoln jokes..

Nah. Too soon.

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Yes. I thought with this episode it finally hit its stride.

The camera angle on Freddy and David when they were seated alone on the couch really made them look like they could be brothers, or at least cousins.

They really did! It was nice to see them interact more this episode, I was hoping we'd get some good cousin bonding at some point. I'm glad this one gave us that. And yay, David, heading out with that woman he met at the bar! I also liked Freddie quoting Little Women. The whole thing with Freddie blowing the whistle on every line David tried was funny, too.

I also enjoyed the main plot, it felt very "Frasier"-esque (and I too thought of the "The Club" episode from the original series :D.) I liked Alan walking around with that thing on his hand all night, and the "Nobody knew your name?" line was good. 

Also loved Olivia's whole look this episode, she looked so pretty!

Yeah. This was good :). 

[Irlandesa]

This was pretty good but I think I liked last week a bit more. 

They are going to have to keep doing stories like this where David interacts with his family more to help establish who he is and that's why I think I preferred the story of the younger set since the Frasier plot, while funny, felt a bit "been there, done that" with him. 

The only thing I didn't love is some of the inelegance of getting into the "teach David how to talk to girls" story.  They didn't need to have him start by asking out Eve.  And they really really didn't need to try to hammer home the idea that Eve and Freddy are eventually going to be love interests with David asking if they're a thing and believing that they had something for each other in their fake scene where they flirted.  Growing a ship isn't telling.  It's showing. Putting two characters together in well-written scenes shows off chemistry more than "I see your chemistry" ever will.

The thing I loved the most about the second story is that they chose not to end it by humiliating David but by having him run into someone he has a lot in common with and a connection coming naturally.  All in all the subplot was a kind one.  It was kind to the characters and the characters were overall kind to one another.  It was a nice relief from the backstabbing A plot.

The A plot probably had more laughs but that's because few of the actors have the knowledge and command of their character as much as Kelsey does.  Frasier deriding the idea of an exclusive club only to look rapturous upon the invite getting slipped into his office was vintage. 

 

[Sarah 103]

I liked this episode. Toning down David was a huge step in the right direction. I can believe Niles telling him stories (lies) about what a ladies' man he was, but I'm not sure I believe that Daphne wouldn't find out and set her son straight telling him the truth in a kind way.

Frasier's plot was great. I loved Alan wearing the gauntlet and coming up with different uses for it over the night.  

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I loved Alan wearing the gauntlet and coming up with different uses for it over the night.  

The use of the gauntlet in this episode seems award worthy.
At least for a PrimeTimer Award for Best Inanimate Object.

Edited November 3, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Chit Chat]

Mr. Chat & I didn't care for this episode.  It was boring.  I hated that Frasier whined to his friend about how important it was that he get invited to the Society instead of him.  As if it wasn't important to his friend.

Ugh to the storyline of whether Freddy & Eve will get together.  

Sorry, just not feeling this episode. 

[Yeah No]

The Frasier club plot was too similar to the one already mentioned from the original "Frasier", and it worked better there.  Here it just felt too copy cat to love.  It had its moments, though.   Some of the lines and situations were good comedy but they suffered from the timing and delivery of the actors other than Frasier, and even his timing was a little off in parts.  I kept imagining Niles in the role of Alan and the old magic would have been back.  In fact I even wondered if that part of the episode was written with Niles in mind.  And DHP paired with Kelsey were comedic genius.  Kelsey paired with the actor playing Alan are not.  He's a fine actor, but somehow his chemistry with Kelsey pales by comparison and their interactions always feel a bit forced to me.

On 11/2/2023 at 3:46 PM, AnnaCody said:

Boston (and Cambridge too I suspect) has amazing penthouses.  I know Frasier's apartment in Seattle was not the penthouse but it was truly stunning.  Now that he can buy buildings, why isn't he in the Penthouse? 

His current apartment doesn't even have a view.  Why?  I was really looking forward to another amazing apartment. 

I think they were going for the typical look of an older building in Cambridge, MA near Harvard, but I completely agree that they should have done something in a more expansive space with a view.  It wouldn't have had to be a penthouse either if they wanted Freddy to live next door.  There's no reason Freddy had to live on the ground floor or whatever floor that is.  I feel like the sets on this show are too cramped, claustrophobic and dark.  I know why they're doing it but they still could have made them look a little bigger and brighter.

And speaking of Harvard, my husband started his own drinking game with every time they mentioned Harvard.  In the first 2 minutes it was already up to 4 times!

 

[Camera One]

This episode was better and had some amusing moments.  Still, both subplots felt a bit rote.  The actors are certainly competent, so at least the show has that.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I feel like the sets on this show are too cramped, claustrophobic and dark.  I know why they're doing it…

Do tell?

[baldryanr]

Membership in the club really should have gone two ways.  Either he'd get an automatic invite because he's Frasier Crane, famous celebrity, or he'd be automatically disqualified for being Frasier Crane, the guy who sold out and spent two decades playing a glorified clown.  It seems like his colleagues in the psychology department are leaning towards the latter. 

[Bumblebee84047]

It may be just me, but I want the story behind why David's two favorite words are conquistidor and lemon.

[Yeah No]

18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Do tell?

Because they're trying to imitate the style of older, not so expensive buildings in that area which supposedly would have smaller rooms, no view and no open floor plans.   This is where Freddy was living after all, and Frasier ended up there to be as close as possible to him.  It looks like they were trying to make it look old fashioned, traditional and not renovated.  But even a lot of the older buildings have been renovated to create more open floor plans and a lighter, brighter look, but I guess at Freddy and his woman friend's price point that's not so easily found.  And there are tons of more modern buildings with larger rooms, open floor plans and expansive views there where Frasier could have found an apartment similar to the one he had in Seattle.   But then he wouldn't be next door to his son so he's willing to work with it.  I think the show wants us to appreciate all that, but It's just not getting me to care that much one way or the other, I'm sorry to say. 

Of course, Frasier could have decorated it in a lighter, more modern style but it looks like with his return to Harvard they're making him return to a more stuffy, traditional style with darker colors, etc.  Maybe because they think this is what he would want - to return to a style more similar to when he lived there decades ago.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Yeah No

[shapeshifter]

On 11/4/2023 at 10:40 PM, Yeah No said:

Of course, Frasier could have decorated it in a lighter, more modern style but it looks like with his return to Harvard they're making him return to a more stuffy, traditional style with darker colors, etc.  Maybe because they think this is what he would want - to return to a style more similar to when he lived there decades ago.

Or maybe Frasier is [was] thinking this is a temporary residence? 
That he will flip it as soon as Freddy is ready to move out of, and to move up in life??
(Meaning to “move up in life” in Frasier’s world view)

Even if the writers did tell the set designers to make room for these👆possibilities, they might go in a different direction.

Edited November 6, 2023 by shapeshifter
Clarity

[AstridM]

Move up in life how? He seems happy as and where he is. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, AstridM said:

Move up in life how? He seems happy as and where he is. 

Yes. And in this last episode, I think Frasier realizes that Freddy is satisfied with his status. 
I just re-edited my above post in hopes of clarifying what I was thinking:

Quote

maybe Frasier is [was] thinking this is a temporary residence? 
That he will flip it as soon as Freddy is ready to move out of, and to move up in life??
(Meaning to “move up in life” in Frasier’s world view)

I was just trying to come up with a possible explanation as to why Frasier would buy a building to live in an apartment without a view.

Now I’m thinking that by moving into an apartment (without any view) in Freddy’s building, Frasier was performatively demonstrating his acceptance of Freddy’s life choices
— which really is a pretty grand gesture, albeit not so very grand if Frasier is, say, a billionaire, or even a quarter-billionaire
— which would make Frasier’s buying the building and moving into the dark apartment on par with renting the Winnebago and going on a road trip with Martin in the late season 1 episode of OG Frasier that I re-watched yesterday.

So:
Is Frasier in the windowless apartment for the long haul? Or is it more like he’s just camping out?

Edited November 6, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Now I’m thinking that by moving into an apartment (without any view) in Freddy’s building, Frasier was performatively demonstrating his acceptance of Freddy’s life choices

I think it demonstrates his need for control. He sees just how bad his relationship with Freddy is and rather than taking normal steps to repair the relationship he takes over. Frasier can’t just let a situation be. Frasier will do absurd things to control a situation when he is unhappy with it. Just look at the lengths he went to when he was unhappy with a caricature of himself. Or how he acted when he worked on the Habitat for Humanity house. 

[baldryanr]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

So:
Is Frasier in the windowless apartment for the long haul? Or is it more like he’s just camping out?

It seems like his plan is to live there until he and Freddy are as close as he and Martin became.  Once that's done and one of them has a reason to move out then it's over.  Back in the original series there were a couple of episodes where Frasier expressed jealousy of Niles living in a posher community than him.  Now he has the money and prestige to land a place in the Boston area equivalent - perhaps the Back Bay area has a nice penthouse with a view.

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, baldryanr said:

It seems like his plan is to live there until he and Freddy are as close as he and Martin became.  Once that's done and one of them has a reason to move out then it's over.  Back in the original series there were a couple of episodes where Frasier expressed jealousy of Niles living in a posher community than him.  Now he has the money and prestige to land a place in the Boston area equivalent - perhaps the Back Bay area has a nice penthouse with a view.

Or maybe — especially if there's a season 2 — Frasier will move to the top floor of the building and renovate it into A Room With A View. 

About Freddy and Eve — 
Watching season 1 of OG Frasier, Niles' infatuation with Daphne was wonderfully depicted, with Frasier recognizing it early and Daphne seemingly oblivious, but with a shadow of doubt about her real understanding of Niles' feelings for her.
This provided fodder for endless physical and verbal comedy that worked.

Here, "Freddy and Eve" is still open to debate and rather unimaginitive, IMO.

I wish "Freddy and Eve" was either more like "Niles and Daphne,"
or more obviously not going to be a OTP,
or uniquely engaging somehow.
I loathe seeing the word "chemistry" bandied about the message boards as if the actors either have it or they don't when what we should see being depicted is what is written in the script.
But the chemistry between Freddy and Eve just seems vague.

[TheOtherOne]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:34 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I liked this episode. Toning down David was a huge step in the right direction. I can believe Niles telling him stories (lies) about what a ladies' man he was, but I'm not sure I believe that Daphne wouldn't find out and set her son straight telling him the truth in a kind way.

The fact that Niles got three different women to marry him might be enough to give his son the impression he was a ladies' man, without Niles having to say anything.

[baldryanr]

4 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

The fact that Niles got three different women to marry him might be enough to give his son the impression he was a ladies' man, without Niles having to say anything.

I mean, even if he did say something then it's fair to say both Crane brothers were reasonably popular with the ladies.  Niles just sucked at keeping relationships going because of his Niles-ness and his feeling for Daphne.  Occasional dry spells aside, Frasier was quite prolific on the dating scene, but screwed things up all of his budding relationships pretty quickly.

[SmithW6079]

So David is straight? Thirty years after gay coding Niles and Frasier, they couldn't create a out gay main character?

[Sarah 103]

5 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

So David is straight? Thirty years after gay coding Niles and Frasier, they couldn't create a out gay main character?

Focusing on the original series, I thought part of the point was that it was deconstructing the stereotypes. Straight men can like fancy foods, wine, opera, classical music, and musicals. It isn't always as easy to tell who is straight and who is gay based on superficial things like interests and other elements of personality. 

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

So David is straight? Thirty years after gay coding Niles and Frasier, they couldn't create a out gay main character?

I’m not taking David’s plot in this episode to confirm anything about his sexuality. He’s only 18 and very inexperienced. He didn’t seem to have any romantic interest in the woman he “picked up”. 

52 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Focusing on the original series, I thought part of the point was that it was deconstructing the stereotypes. Straight men can like fancy foods, wine, opera, classical music, and musicals. It isn't always as easy to tell who is straight and who is gay based on superficial things like interests and other elements of personality. 

 

David Hyde Pierce has said the same thing. 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Dani said:

I’m not taking David’s plot in this episode to confirm anything about his sexuality. He’s only 18 and very inexperienced. He didn’t seem to have any romantic interest in the woman he “picked up”. 

5 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Focusing on the original series, I thought part of the point was that it was deconstructing the stereotypes. Straight men can like fancy foods, wine, opera, classical music, and musicals. It isn't always as easy to tell who is straight and who is gay based on superficial things like interests and other elements of personality. 

 

David Hyde Pierce has said the same thing. 

Excellent, perceptive post👆

I was just thinking David could also be Bi. 

[paigow]

Martin was forced to pretend he was gay because Frasier had spun a web of lies to impress someone... At least one gay guy [whose gaydar should be accurate] hit on Frasier... and the Crane boys did not look out of place at Bad Billys

 

ETA: Did the male Ski Instructor fall in love with Niles?

Edited November 8, 2023 by paigow

[John M]

To explain the apartment situation and I partially covered this in an earlier post...

Many historic grand mansions in places like Boston were carved up into apartments buildings as they became more costly to maintain and there wasn't as much if any live in household staff. Sometimes the owners would carve out a much larger apartment for themselves to live in.

With these mansions the first floor would be the most desirable floor as it was designed for receiving guests, upper floors would be used for housing staff because home elevators were not a thing and the owners did not want to go up and down stairs all the time. Accordingly, much less attention to detail was paid to the "penthouse" because it was just used to house the household staff.

This also explains why Frasier was able to move in so quickly, the previous owner vacated their apartment with the sale.

[AstridM]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:25 AM, Sarah 103 said:

Focusing on the original series, I thought part of the point was that it was deconstructing the stereotypes. Straight men can like fancy foods, wine, opera, classical music, and musicals. It isn't always as easy to tell who is straight and who is gay based on superficial things like interests and other elements of personality. 

 

Exactly this!

[Sarah 103]

On 11/7/2023 at 3:48 PM, paigow said:

ETA: Did the male Ski Instructor fall in love with Niles?

While the make ski instructor fell in love with Niles, Niles did not feel the same way about the ski instructor.  

[Irlandesa]

On 11/7/2023 at 2:48 PM, paigow said:

ETA: Did the male Ski Instructor fall in love with Niles?

Yes, leading to one of my favorite lines "I'm not gay, Guy."

And the "both wanted me line" in this episode was definitely evocative of the

Let me see if I've got this straight. All the lust coursing through this lodge tonight, all the hormones virtually ricocheting off the walls, and no one...was chasing me?

line.  Also a brilliant one.

Guy wanted Niles, Niles wanted Daphne, Daphne wanted Guy and Daphne's friend wanted Niles.  Frasier wanted Daphne's friend.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Irlandesa