S01.E07: The Pit and the Pendulum

[Guest]

Quote

A furious Frederick sets out to handle unfinished business. Madeline receives an ominous message at an old haunt. Dupin grows wary of Roderick's motives.

Dropping on October 12, 2023

[Anela]

Oohhhh, what a dick. Trashing the case against his boss. And what he said to Juno? No.  
bye bye Freddy.  Fuck you for abusing your wife.  
wow, Madeleine even sacrificed her own brother. 

[Snazzy Daisy]

I have the same question as Dupin. This storytelling with Roderick, where this mind game is leading up to? Roderick tells him he will give him murder, more than one. Dupin isn’t buying it and starts to leave but suddenly the clock starts ticking. This is the first time he sees what Roderick has been seeing all night - messages from his dead children. This time it’s from Freddie. Roderick explains that their conversation tonight has been micromanaged by his children to ensure he gives all the right details.

Jump scare #7 - Roderick embraces a young Freddie, happily picks him up then the little boy’s body being split into half. His lower part of the body slides off his dad’s legs. Terrifying.

A flashback to 1979 takes us to a deposition where Roderick has betrayed and humiliated Dupin after all those preps. He’s always going to side with Fortunato and has accused Dupin of harassing him and his family. Their master plan is to make Roderick indispensable to Fortunato. Now we understand why Dupin thinks Annabel is the only good Usher.

Juno is on 2000mg of Ligodone/day, the highest dose. She wants to get off the drug and Roderick’s doctor advises her to do it slowly. Roderick threatens her about all the side effects and says that it will take her 3 agonizing years to do so. My earlier guess is correct, he sees her as his special project. Juno says she’s willing to take 3 years in hell (withdrawal) than a lifetime with him. You go, girl!

Madeline finally meets Verna at her childhood home. She’s shocked that Verna hasn’t aged. She asks to renegotiate the terms of their deal. Apparently, the Ushers did make a deal with the devil back in the day.

Verna tells Madeline that she’s her favorite and she describes her to a T:

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“You’re a collection of impeccable, elaborate masks in orbit of a stunted heart.”

They talk about pain and Verna wants to offer Madeline clarity with no strings attached. Verna recites a poem by Edgar Allan Poe (The City in the Sea) as she describes a realm or location that she has found. This could foreshadow to what we will see in the finale. Verna tells Madeline that she will soon understand this moment of clarity.

Lenore breaks into the room where her mom is being kept and finds out what her dad has been doing to her. She calls the authorities for help.

How does Verna orchestrate Freddie’s death? She possesses him and puts deadly nightshade into his drug after seeing him pulling his wife’s teeth out, cruelly. It’s the same paralytic drug that he has been giving Morella. Freddie lying down in the abandoned factory, unable to move, staring at a larger pendulum that’s slicing him in half, one stroke at a time. This is a great call back to the cat clock in the beginning of this episode and the clock Dupin heard earlier while trying to leave.

Verna tells Freddie that his death isn’t meant to be this cruel but after what he did to his wife, this is meant to be. It’s very disturbing to watch Freddie slowly gets cut in half but it’s also very satisfying.

Madeline updates Roderick about Freddie’s death. She also reminds him about the terms of the deal with Verna. Roderick needs to kill himself to stop all the nonsense. He takes the Ligodone pills, then passes out. Madeline leaves him to die. Heartless.

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“You’re a legend. You’re a king. You’re saving us all.”

F*ck you, Madeline!

Verna appears out of nowhere saying she won’t let Roderick gets off so easily. 😱

 

QUESTIONS: 🤔

• What is that metal clinking sound? Is someone being chained inside that wall of the office basement?
• Verna says Roderick has been bringing boxes into the basement of their childhood home. What’s in them?
• The noise in the basement that Dupin keeps hearing, could it be Madeline being chained down there after what she did to Roderick? Roderick might be telling the truth all along.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[Anela]

I thought I was posting in this thread, when I answered a question. Sorry. 🤐

I liked Lenore holding her ground, and not going along with what she was told to do.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Anela

[Bastet]

Damn, this one was good.  Madeline is stone cold, yet I believe her when she says she loves Roderick.  I wonder if he's going to kill her, and that's one of the murders he assures Dupin he'll have him on -- whatever they did back in '79 (did they kill the asshole CEO and wall him up behind those bricks?) and now Madeline? 

I want so badly to find out, yet part of me doesn't want it to be over.  I will so completely give into temptation as soon as I get in bed tonight, I know.

The scene between Madeline and Verna is one of my favorite of the series, but I am with Ms. Maddie -- if you want to give me clarity, do not recite me a damn poem.

Freddie's death was fantastically brutal; I love that Verna had enough sympathy for him always just wanting his father's love and approval that she might have just given him a coke-induced heart attack, but after he decided to bring his wife home in order to torture her, she changed plans.

I love that we never see Madeline act anything like a typical aunt with Freddie and Tammy in the flashbacks, even though she's at the apartment a lot; at the deposition, she takes Freddie from Roderick's arms, but it's just to get Roderick moving, and she sets him right back down on a chair.  She's not into kids, at all, which I dig, but I also find it interesting because in that scene early in the series when Lenore comes to her office, she's different with her -- lighter, laughs several times, seems to genuinely enjoy her (beyond what she contributes to Madeline's research).  With Lenore as the only good Usher (with Anabelle - who Madeline didn't like - long gone), that both Roderick and Madeline are different with her than they are with the rest of the family is very interesting to me.

Lenore is interesting to me, period; she's normal and compassionate in this sea of outlandish, ruthless people.  Is that just her age, and if things had continued as they'd been rather than this destruction of the family/empire, she'd have succumbed?  Or is she the second coming of Anabelle?

Edited October 16, 2023 by Bastet

[Schweedie]

Up until now I've felt *some* sympathy for every kid as they got theirs, but man, Freddie? That was plain poetic justice, honestly. What a sadistic psychopath he turned out to be.

Lenore is awesome. She's got heart and she's got courage.

[Paloma]

On 10/14/2023 at 7:43 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

On 10/15/2023 at 11:09 PM, Bastet said:

The scene between Madeline and Verna is one of my favorite of the series, but I am with Ms. Maddie -- if you want to give me clarity, do not recite me a damn poem.

They talk about pain and Verna wants to offer Madeline clarity with no strings attached. Verna recites a poem by Edgar Allan Poe (The City in the Sea) as she describes a realm or location that she has found. This could foreshadow to what we will see in the finale. Verna tells Madeline that she will soon understand this moment of clarity.

Seriously, I still don't have any clarity from that poem. Does anyone her get it?

Otherwise an excellent episode.

[TeslaNewton]

Juno is Rappaccini's Daughter.

[DearEvette]

Fuck you, Freddie!  While I was curious to see how all the kids would die I didn't have any personal animus against any of them, but Freddie changed all that.  I wanted him so dead.  So very dead.  And was happy to see he sufferred!

So  like Tammy he was sliced to death with debris falling from above. With her was just a mirror, but his was a whole damned building.  Ha! couldn't happen to a worse person.

Truthfully they took the gloves off on showing how really awful the  remaining Ushers (minus Lenore) really are.  Roderick was  just really horrible  to both Dupin (in the past) and Juno in present day.  And Madeline with Annabel.  She always knows she 's the smartest person in the room, so I was so glad to see Verna knock her down a peg. 

And the dialogue in their scene was crackling and quick:
 

Quote

 

"I knew you'd be here."

"Well, I left you the address, don't pat yourself too hard on the back."

 

and
 

Quote

 

"I want to renegotiate"

"You can't"

"Why not?"

"The Ink is dry"

"For him or for me?"

"Madeleine..."

"Words got us into this, words can get us out."

"You blaming Roderick or rhetoric."

 

Heh.  I loved it.

But yeah that poem offered no clarity.  LOL.

I am trying to figure out what Madeleine was thinking when she gave Roderick the pills to kill him.  If the deal was "into the world together, out of the world together" then how could killing Roderick void the deal?  This is Verna we are talking about, a woman who talks in riddles and poems.  And deals with a devil aren't that easy to wiggle out of.  it was obviously not Verna's intent (as we see with her resurrecting him).  The "out of the world together" sounds to me like the twins are a package deal.  In order for the deal to void, they have to both die together  just as they were born together.

Now I am curious to see how the whole deal came about and what happened to Gris. I have a feeling I know where he is.

 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

That poem may have offered zero clarity, but I do love Verna whipping out some verse to a person like Madeline.  Madeline, the over analytical one, the one who can creates algorithms after algorithms, the one trying to stop death through said algorithms. And Verna gives her poetry, the exact opposite of Madeline's analytics.  

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

I am trying to figure out what Madeleine was thinking when she gave Roderick the pills to kill him.  If the deal was "into the world together, out of the world together" then how could killing Roderick void the deal?

Oops, I think we don't find some of that out until the next one, so never mind.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Bastet

[HelloooKitty]

So, just tossing out an idea I’m mulling over- something I find interesting. 
Before pope Gregory revised the list, there were more deadly sins. He combined some he felt were similar or were aspects of the same thing.
one of those “historical sins” was called Acedia. 
Acedia was a form of sloth, but not so much laziness, but more apathy and lack of caring  

“Acēdia is the negative form of the Greek term κηδεία (Kēdeia), which has a more restricted usage. 'Kēdeia' refers specifically to spousal love and respect for the dead.”

That seems especially fitting. An apathy in spousal love? A lack of caring and respect for the dead (or nearly dead)?

Maybe we should pull from an older list. There’s enough sins to go around….

[shrewd.buddha]

To paraphrase Verna: "I usually don't get this hands-on Fredrick, but damn, you just need to die already."
Freddy's middle-aged man-bun was the cherry on top of his cake of douche-y-ness. 

Respect to the actor playing Fredrick: I'm seeing the character and not the actor. When I detest a character and not the actor playing them, that's an accomplishment -- such as, when I see Madeline, I just see Mary McDonald in a wig.
.. and I think it is the kid who was in E.T. ..

Edited October 19, 2023 by shrewd.buddha
grammar

[Lady Calypso]

Henry Thomas has been in so many of Mike Flanagan's series by now. This is SUCH a different role for him, and I've been enjoying every minute of it. Frederick is such a pathetic human being, also incredibly stupid, and it's clear why he was never fully trusted within the family. But he is dangerous and abusive to his wife and daughter. It is a wonder that people listen to Frederick at all but it goes to show that his name is the only reason why people listen to him now. From him talking about people not taking him seriously before to his pathetic attempts at threats in his phone calls this episode, at least he got what was coming to him.

It was good to see the foreshadowing to Frederick's death early on. The pendulum swinging in the house when Roderick and Dupin are talking, the hallucination of young Frederick, the paralytic, etc. At least he had to see his impending doom in a way the others didn't. But I almost wish it was more violent; after the terrible shit he was doing, his death felt a bit quick. I think Perry and Camille's death were more violent than Frederick's.

I'm glad Lenore finally decided to stop listening to Frederick. She knows he's not well and, let's face it, she would need to see her mother eventually. How long could Frederick get away with his actions with his daughter in the house?

What an interesting turn of events in the flashbacks, but I like it. There always had to be an angle there, with how much Dupin hates the Ushers, and betraying him and I believe getting him fired from his job would be it. Young Madeline is so captivating; her curious response to Annabel's heartbreak was interesting. 

As for present day Madeline, I like that she went to the house to meet with Verna. I do like that we're getting closer to confirmation on the entire story. Roderick and Madeline made a deal that put his kids on the line, and clearly that deal is up.

Good on Juno for standing up to Roderick, as well. Lots of outsider of the family calling the Ushers out. And it was fascinating to watch Roderick's walls crack bit by bit over the series.

Lots of captivating stuff leading into the finale.

[KarenX]

I am hoping I don’t have to worry about Lenore; I am hoping we will learn that Morella was unfaithful to Freddy and that Lenore is not an Usher by blood and I hope that would protect her.

I am hoping Juno is not pregnant and can truly escape. And I am hoping that she is in the will even though Roderick didn’t say so when pressed by his progeny a few episodes back.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 hours ago, KarenX said:

 

I am hoping Juno is not pregnant and can truly escape. And I am hoping that she is in the will even though Roderick didn’t say so when pressed by his progeny a few episodes back.

Juno is Roderick's special project to show the world his highly addictive opiate is safe to take in large doses for an extended period of time.  He is not going to risk that by getting her pregnant.  

[TeslaNewton]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

But I almost wish it was more violent; after the terrible shit he was doing, his death felt a bit quick.

Oh, I think Frederick's death while not overly violent, was not quick and was beyond torturous. He had to lay there seeing the pendulum swing back and forth and lower for who knows how long. I felt his death was satisfying. He was aware and could do nothing.

[Chaos Theory]

Freddie was a sadistic psychopath.   His name and being the eldest son is the only reason he was given any respect at all both inside and outside the family.  But he is also dangerous, abusive and has no idea what he is doing  .     There was always a little bit of irony to all the deaths.  Freddie tortured so he was tortured. 

Of course there was an angle in the flashback.   The scene between young Madeline and Annabelle said everything you needed to know about the two and ultimately why it didn't work between Roderick and Annabelle.  

The scenes between Madeline and Verna was some of the best acting of the series.   Really well done.  

I like the idea that all of his kids are like Roderick but Lenore is like Annabelle and the one with the good pure heart.  

I know this show is taking alot of Edgar Allen Poe but it also has hints of other things as well and the story of Frankenstein's monster fits in with Juno and Roderick.    He managed to build the perfect example of someone who can exist entirely on his drug with little to no side effects.    

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[libgirl2]

25 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Freddie was a sadistic psychopath.   His name and being the eldest son is the only reason he was given any respect at all both inside and outside the family.  But he is also dangerous, abusive and has no idea what he is doing  .     There was always a little bit of irony to all the deaths.  Freddie tortured so he was tortured. 

Of course there was an angle in the flashback.   The scene between young Madeline and Annabelle said everything you needed to know about the two and ultimately why it didn't work between Roderick and Annabelle.  

The scenes between Madeline and Verna was some of the best acting of the series.   Really well done.  

I like the idea that all of his kids are like Roderick but Lenore is the like Annabelle and the one with the good pure heart.  

I know this show is taking alot of Edgar Allen Poe but it also has hints of other things as well and the story of Frankenstein's monster fits in with Juno and Roderick.    He managed to build the perfect example of someone who can exist entirely on his drug with little to no side effects.    

 

 

 

 

Initially, I felt bad for him with his wife going off to a f-fest. I figured he was just some bumbling fool. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by libgirl2

[Peanut6711]

I'm left with the burning question of... why does Madeline wear those fake bangs???

Also when it comes to Freddie, Team Vera all the way. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Peanut6711

[tennisgurl]

Freddie has the most "'I'm the oldest boy" energy ever, mixing that with coke and his families empire crumbling was a recipe for disaster, poor Morella. With the deaths of the other Usher kids I was always able to at least feel some sympathy, given how awful their deaths were and that I'm pretty sure their father and aunt set them up to die for their own gain decades ago, but for Freddie it felt like just desserts. For me, this was one of the nastiest ones, getting slowly cut in half, watching it happen and being unable to do anything, sounds just awful. 

I knew it was coming, but watching young Roderick betray Auggie like that was so hard to watch, he and Madeline really are cold as ice. Madeline especially just seems to have no idea that people really can just be good people, it seemed to practically make her internal system do a reboot. Annabel did at least get one good one on her, you can tell that the "your so small" comment really got to her. 

Madeline trying to get Roderick to kill himself to save her was such a Madeline mood. So cold, but I do think that she does love him as much as its possible for her to love anyone, their relationship is just so interesting. Especially as she kept telling him that he would "save us all" as if everyone wasn't dead except for her. And maybe Lenore? I really hope that whatever this is just skips her over or we find out that Freddie isn't really her biological father, I really like her and would hate to see her go like her dad and aunts/uncles. 

Lots of really interesting stuff is being set up as we head into the finale, I really hope that this show can stick the landing.

Edited October 30, 2023 by tennisgurl

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

I'm left with the burning question of... why does Madeline wear those fake bangs???

I take the wig as part of Madeline's armor (some would say costume) that she dons when being Madeline Usher, businesswoman.  Clothing, hair, makeup, and accessories like glasses are tools people use to project an image in business at this scale.  I can't say why Madeline and her algorithms decided that wig was the best embodiment of whatever it is she wanted to project, but I know she did the work.  It could be worse, she could have done an Elizabeth Holmes and modified her voice.

[Bastet]

I've seen some interesting speculation online that the specific style chosen ties into her obsession with all things ancient Egypt -- the Cleopatra bangs, wearing a wig over her hair (meaning, her hair down, not pulled up under a wig cap).

[Bastet]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Madeline trying to get Roderick to kill himself to save her was such a Madeline mood. So cold, but I do think that she does love him as much as its possible for her to love anyone, their relationship is just so interesting.

Fascinating, on every level, including that they truly do love each other despite acts like that.

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Especially as she kept telling him that he would "save us all" as if everyone wasn't dead except for her. And maybe Lenore?

I think she was partially referring to Lenore and whomever she might go on to produce, and they to produce, but that "us all" mostly referred to giving her more time to perfect her immortality through artificial consciousness project.

[Bastet]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:21 AM, tennisgurl said:

Madeline especially just seems to have no idea that people really can just be good people, it seemed to practically make her internal system do a reboot.

(One of these days I'll manage to respond to everything in one post, but today is not that day.)

I thought it was a great performance from the actor playing the younger Madeline when she realized Annabel hadn't just found her angle, how to survive as a woman in a patriarchal society, she really was happy in her little life with Roderick and devastated he was willing to do that to Auggie -- she completely sold Madeline being utterly baffled that Annabel was genuine; like you said, it just did not compute to her.

[Black Knight]

If Madeline finds it so hard to believe there are genuinely good people, does that say something about her mother? Roderick said something in the first episode about how their mother influenced them completely. Okay, we know she had an affair with a married man that produced two children, we know she thought modern medicine was basically the Devil's work (ironic given which company she worked for), and we know she killed their father. I suppose that's enough.

Come to think of it, her mother's abhorrence of modern medicine does put an interesting light on Madeline's comments to Pym in this episode about moving the company away from "pills and poison" to tech. Maybe she's always had an abhorrence of Ligodone even as she got rich off it?

I'm very interested to hear what the exact terms of the deal between Roderick, Madeline, and Verna are. If Roderick's children were promised as part of the deal, could that have something to do with why Roderick sired a bunch of them? He obviously knows how to wrap it up, as he's not gotten his current wife pregnant (as noted by a smart poster upthread, he'd never risk the consequences of his special project getting pregnant). They died in the reverse order of their birth, so did he hope that by putting as many kids as possible in the path between Verna and his two children by Annabel Lee, he could save his "true" children, or at least for longer? (He wouldn't necessarily envision Verna taking out his kids in such quick succession.) And then a couple of decades ago he convinced himself that the whole thing with Verna was nonsense to begin with and so he didn't need to keep fathering kids - which would explain why there were no children after Perry.

As Verna noted, Freddie's behavior cannot be excused. He's responsible for his choices. That said, it's interesting to contemplate how things might have gone differently had Morrie heeded Verna's warning to leave the party. If she had left, there would not have been the situation where Freddie took her teeth out with pliers, which was what so disgusted Verna and set her on intervening directly to make sure Freddie had an awful death.

[Milburn Stone]

On 10/15/2023 at 10:09 PM, Bastet said:

The scene between Madeline and Verna is one of my favorite of the series, but I am with Ms. Maddie -- if you want to give me clarity, do not recite me a damn poem.

Phew. I thought it was just me.