S01.E08: Part Eight - The Jedi, The Witch, and The Warlord

[Sakura12]

As a Rebels watcher even I feel like they regressed Sabine's character. They should've show her other interests, she's an artist who was constantly painting her Mandalorian armor and ships. She also built weapons for the Empire before she joined the rebellion. One of which kills Mandalorians. Making her character only obsessed with finding Ezra kind of ruined her. She's more than that. They showed Anakin was more and let Sabine flounder. 

 

[sandrajane]

Felt like a series finale than a season ending one, if it comes to that.

I watched the Genndy Tartakovsky Clone Wars.  Haven't watched any other animated series since.  Those were always to kiddish for me.  But, I've watched enough Star Wars movies, read a book or two, and all the Disney+ shows to get a good gist of the characters and storylines.

I would give the series a B-.  My biggest problem is that there wasn't enough background about the big baddie.  They could have put in a throwback scene or two on why him being alive and coming back must be stopped at all costs.

Another issue I had was Sabine.  I think it was the actress.  She was just not good, and delivered some clunkers.  

I was more interested in Thrawn in relation to Morgan, Ashoka and Baylon than Sabine/Ezra.  Their scenes together were the worst.

I hope they just recast for Baylon.  I need to know what he's up to.  Whoever they cast has some big shoes to fill.  Ray was great.

 

[RobertDeSneero]

On 10/4/2023 at 4:38 AM, Anduin said:

A three-year cliffhanger. Wonderful. But it's not your fault, unless you're actually Filoni. Thanks.

I think this is just the new reality of streaming.  Shows don't have to force themselves to put episodes out every year.  A Star Wars TV show can do longer form than a Star Wars movie, but spaced out between seasons the same way a Star Wars movie trilogy is.

 

15 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

This show was not for the casual Star Wars viewer. I consider myself somewhere above the average viewer, but I don't see how anyone that hasn't seen either Clone Wars or Rebels would understand or be able to fully appreciate this show without having to go online to get the backstories, and to me, that is poor story-telling.

I don't think there is a problem with only people fully appreciating the show if they watched Clone Wars and Rebels, so long as there is enough there to satisfy viewers enough.  There was nothing wrong with A Game of Thrones simplifying things so that only someone who read the books would have the fullest appreciation of the story.  Did you need the backstory on why Leia would seek out Obi-Wan to enjoy A New Hope?

The non-Clone Wars viewer goes, "What do these statues mean?"  The Clone Wars viewer goes, "What do these statues of the Mortis gods mean?"  It's totally fair that the cartoon viewer gets a fuller appreciation of that moment.  You didn't need to have seen the Rebels episodes featuring the World Between Worlds to get enough of a sense to follow what was going on there.

This is all fine, so long as they explain enough of it in the future.  Not all of it, because there's no time for that, unless you want some extra where Ahsoka goes into exposition for thirty minutes to Sabine while sitting around a campfire or in the cockpit of a ship passing time.

I don't think advancing the plot was as important as making Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra, and Hera likeable characters who fans want to see more of.  I get that some people aren't going to immediately cotton to bratty characters like Sabine, but overall, I think the show succeeded.  I see people saying they wanted more out of this season, but not a lot of sentiment that they're not going to bother watching a second season, unless it's some incel who thought the show had too much girl power.  I think the show had the right pacing of not having the characters just be along for the ride because everything has to be written to advance a central plot.

I think the show did enough to advance Ahsoka and Sabine so that they are in different places, both physically and emotionally, than where they started the season.

As for the specifics of this episode, I wonder if Peridea is a special place in the Force and Sabine is only able to use telekinesis due to being there and that ability will disappear upon return to her own galaxy.  Does a stronger connection to the Force here give Ahsoka the sense that they were meant to be on this planet instead of going back with Ezra?

[tv-talk]

2 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

I don't think advancing the plot was as important as making Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra, and Hera likeable characters who fans want to see more of.

Considering the many comments here saying that Ahsoka herself was a dud and people wished Sabine would be killed, one could make the argument that more backstory is exactly what was needed to make the characters more likable. 

[norcalgal]

5 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

Shows don't have to force themselves to put episodes out every year.  A Star Wars TV show can do longer form than a Star Wars movie, but spaced out between seasons the same way a Star Wars movie trilogy is.

Dunno about that...I regularly watch the John Campea show on YouTube and according to him, the Favreauloni-verse in Disney+ keeps getting lower and lower ratings. I think Campea said Andor and Obi-Wan were the exceptions, but progressive seasons of Mando, the Book of Boba Fett and now Ahsoka aren't ratings hits. Not sure if streee--thchi--ing out a relatively low rated series is the way to go if you want to stay on the air. If people are tapping out after 2, 3 episodes, how many will return for S2 1-3 years from now?

5 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

I wonder if Peridea is a special place in the Force and Sabine is only able to use telekinesis due to being there and that ability will disappear upon return to her own galaxy.

This is the best reasonable explanation I can think of for the sudden turnaround in Sabine's Force abilities. How do you go from Huyang stating Sabine is one of the worst Jedi candidates with barely any Force ability he's ever known, to the Force skills she displayed in the season finale - especially her ability to Force push Ezra onto the star destroyer?!?!  

[Ilovepie]

6 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

I don't think advancing the plot was as important as making Ahsoka, Sabine, Ezra, and Hera likeable characters who fans want to see more of.

100% on this, and I don't think they succeeded. For me who has watched Clone Wars, I absolutely loathe how Rosario Dawson played Ahsoka. I have seen everyone saying she's older, she's been through too much, etc. I don't buy it. She's beyond stoic.

As far as Sabine, her actions went beyond bratty. I cannot fathom how Ahsoka just blithely dismissed it all, which was also almost emotionless.

And I think this is my problem with this show. I realize I am in the minority, but it's been a disappointment.

On the plus side, Baylon and Shin were great, as well as the witches who I always thought were cool characters on Clone Wars. I think Ezra was great casting. I like the the wolf things they are riding. The episode with Anakin was a highlight.

[isalicat]

I have only seen Obi-Wan and Andor (the latter of which was the best TV I've seen in many years) of the Star Wars TV series previously - none of the animated shows, and I enjoyed this but felt it was just an eight episode set up for something...

I have no quarrels with anything specific, just the extremely slow pace. Sat through the first two episodes of The Mandalorian before bailing because I felt like I was watching paint dry, frankly. Only Andor had enough plot for a full eight episode run, in my opinion. Maybe a two hour movie will be a better vehicle.

[Anduin]

4 hours ago, norcalgal said:

This is the best reasonable explanation I can think of for the sudden turnaround in Sabine's Force abilities. How do you go from Huyang stating Sabine is one of the worst Jedi candidates with barely any Force ability he's ever known, to the Force skills she displayed in the season finale - especially her ability to Force push Ezra onto the star destroyer?!?!  

The Force seems based on belief. If you believe you can lift an X-Wing out of a swamp, you can. Sabine believed she could telekinetically throw Ezra across the gap, so she could.

[tv-talk]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

The Force seems based on belief. If you believe you can lift an X-Wing out of a swamp, you can. Sabine believed she could telekinetically throw Ezra across the gap, so she could.

Isnt it based on the amount of whatever in your blood? I would think once you see yourself move anything with your mind, that would engender the belief you could do all of it. The difference between say Grogu and Sabine is that the former has extreme levels of that force stuff in his blood whereas Sabine (apparently) has relatively little.

[Anduin]

14 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Isnt it based on the amount of whatever in your blood? I would think once you see yourself move anything with your mind, that would engender the belief you could do all of it. The difference between say Grogu and Sabine is that the former has extreme levels of that force stuff in his blood whereas Sabine (apparently) has relatively little.

If you want to reduce it to mere biology, sure. I prefer to see it as something mystical, the way it was in ESB. Either way, Sabine believed and made it work.

[rtms77]

On 10/4/2023 at 6:29 AM, Uncle JUICE said:

THis show doesn't do lightsaber fights well, either. Rosario Dawson, whose performance really grew on me, might be getting done dirty here by production, but the saber fighting looks slow and stodgy with her. THe woman who played Morgan is a martial artist and her action showed it. Rosario Dawson is tentative and stiff looking by comparison. Her fight with Baylan was far better because he too was slow and brutish. 

It’s the one big  complaint I’ve had all season. Dawson especially, Stevenson (rip)slightly better, with Morgan, Sabine and the best Shin. Ahsoka should be jumping and leaping around, quick actions, but Dawson looked like a stiff board, like someone trying to remember dance step, or rub her tummy and tap her head at the same time. The fight choreography was terrible. And age has nothing to do with it. Dooku, Yoda etc were old in the prequels yet were very agile. Ahsoka should be on the same level. 

Shin , why would she stay other than to get back with her master? I mean why not go back with Thrawn? At least she would know that galaxy. Who is she going to raid, especially with both Ahsoka and Sabine there? I still think she will be a neutral or good guy eventually. 

[tv-talk]

14 hours ago, Anduin said:

If you want to reduce it to mere biology, sure. I prefer to see it as something mystical, the way it was in ESB. Either way, Sabine believed and made it work.

In the originals it was definitely very mystical but George Lucas chose to make it biological and I was just looking at how that aspect fits in. Grogu could use the force as a toddler with zero training and probably no understanding of what the Force even was. Meanwhile Sabine had trained for years but was the worst student DrWho had seen in 400yrs and couldnt even move a coffee mug.

At any rate for me it was a little too cute, Sabine unable to do anything with her life and Ahsoka's on the line, then suddenly she throws Ezra across that gap. 

[rtms77]

The problem lately is that the writers keep taking away from the main lead and give the growth or main story over to a secondary character. With Ahsoka I didn’t mind too much because , having watched Rebels I liked Sabines character enough to be interested in the show, even when Ahsoka was acting all depressed. Still it was a struggle, with bad direction and dialogue. Someone having never watched anything about CW or Rebels or the books though would have struggled to stay interested especially after the third or fourth episode. Not to mention that Baylans story was sooo mysterious it just looked wasted in the end. 
 

If they had just stuck to Ahsoka backstory involving Mortis and had flashbacks, then both Ahsoka and Baylan would have come off way better. It would have made more sense than randomly going after Thrawn just to find Ezra.

[Kel Varnsen]

I imagine there was a point in this episode where Sabine wished she has sprung for the upgraded Mandalorian armour, with the jet pack. Especially considering that nearly every other Mandalorian I have seen has one.

Also come on Republic fleet, if you just let any random ship dock inside your main ship with a general on it without even identifying themselves you deserve to lose to the First Order.

[absnow54]

On 10/6/2023 at 9:45 AM, tv-talk said:

Considering the many comments here saying that Ahsoka herself was a dud and people wished Sabine would be killed, one could make the argument that more backstory is exactly what was needed to make the characters more likable. 

I agree. I think it's fine to drop into the middle of a story and get to know the characters as you go along, but I felt this show depended too heavily on already watching Rebels. They tried to properly introduce Sabine with her motorcycle chase on Lothal, but the only character beats they seemed to cover with her was a brat who doesn't respond the authority. Her backstory was that her entire family was killed in the purge, but that was always mentioned as secondary to Sabine disobeying orders again. On paper: Sabine desperately wants to rescue Ezra because she couldn't save her family seems like pretty good character motivation, but in execution, came off really blasé.

On 10/7/2023 at 2:09 AM, rtms77 said:

It’s the one big  complaint I’ve had all season. Dawson especially, Stevenson (rip)slightly better, with Morgan, Sabine and the best Shin. Ahsoka should be jumping and leaping around, quick actions, but Dawson looked like a stiff board, like someone trying to remember dance step, or rub her tummy and tap her head at the same time. The fight choreography was terrible. And age has nothing to do with it. Dooku, Yoda etc were old in the prequels yet were very agile. Ahsoka should be on the same level. 

This was my primary thought through the finale. I was trying to think how many lightsaber battles there have been in the Star Wars television series. The Mandalorian has had a handful, but Kenobi is the only that's had several duels, and in those cases, the choreography was secondary to the emotional punch of the acting. The fight choreography in Ahsoka was abysmal. Rosario Dawson always looked like she was marking a rehearsal. There was an elaborate fight sequence in every episode, but they were performed so clunkily, I wish they'd only focus on a few. For example, the fight between young Ahsoka and Anakin was incredible, and I think it was partly due to it being their one great scene. Meanwhile, Rosario Dawson had to train for like 16 different fight sequences, and it showed.

 

[Tuggy]

On 10/6/2023 at 7:28 PM, Ilovepie said:

100% on this, and I don't think they succeeded. For me who has watched Clone Wars, I absolutely loathe how Rosario Dawson played Ahsoka. I have seen everyone saying she's older, she's been through too much, etc. I don't buy it. She's beyond stoic.

As far as Sabine, her actions went beyond bratty. I cannot fathom how Ahsoka just blithely dismissed it all, which was also almost emotionless.

And I think this is my problem with this show. I realize I am in the minority, but it's been a disappointment.

I'll join you in the minority and based on the comments here, we seem to be many...

[Ilovepie]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:18 AM, rtms77 said:

The problem lately is that the writers keep taking away from the main lead and give the growth or main story over to a secondary character.

Omg yes! This is the third show that they have done this to - BOBF was taken over by Mando (the only thing that saved that show, but still), Bo-Katan took over as the main character on Mandalorian, and now Sabine over Ahsoka. It's gotten ridiculous. I feel they are on the verge of over saturation with Star Wars much like Marvel. Maybe they need to take a break and work on the story a little more. I have less faith in Dave Filoni telling a good story than I had a few series ago......

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, featuring Bo-Katan was by design iirc. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

BOBF was taken over by Mando (the only thing that saved that show, but still), Bo-Katan took over as the main character on Mandalorian, and now Sabine over Ahsoka.

I didn't feel like Ahsoka was The Sabine Show. That being said, I feel like Ahsoka is just the new season of Rebels/TCW...which I whole heartedly support.  😃

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

To be fair, featuring Bo-Katan was by design iirc. 

I know it was, but it still felt like a bait and switch, and I say that as someone who likes Bo-Katan.

I do think Sabine's story was given almost as much weight as Ahsoka's, but maybe that's for the best? I don't know how boring it would be to watch Ahsoka scowling and gazing with her arms crossed over her middle any more than we had to.....

[Uncle JUICE]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:44 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

 

Also come on Republic fleet, if you just let any random ship dock inside your main ship with a general on it without even identifying themselves you deserve to lose to the First Order.

For.

Fucking.

REAL. Particularly after Elsbeth was freed, I mean you think you'd look at some of your practices and make some modifications. "Guys, why is (a) a General leading a welcome party for an unknown ship of Imperial origin with an apparently malfunctioning transponder, and (b) our standard procedure "report to the ship with guns drawn," I mean there has to be a better way to do this!"

 

[tv-talk]

14 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I do think Sabine's story was given almost as much weight as Ahsoka's, but maybe that's for the best? I don't know how boring it would be to watch Ahsoka scowling and gazing with her arms crossed over her middle any more than we had to.....

The problem is they didnt really do Sabine's story either. If you've not seen rebels then Sabine came off as almost traitorous when she made deal with Baylin. And at the least just awful for putting her desire to possibly see Ezra again (he may have been dead for all she knew) ahead of...the entire galaxy.

The show did young Ahsoka...should have done young Sabine as well to fill out the character so viewers could relate with her actions.

[Uncle JUICE]

On 10/6/2023 at 7:04 PM, Anduin said:

If you want to reduce it to mere biology, sure. I prefer to see it as something mystical, the way it was in ESB. Either way, Sabine believed and made it work.

Major issue here for me, maybe this board can help. If the Force is essentially a biological component, and anyone who believes hard enough, regardless of actual biological force sensitivity, can USE the force as we say here...then what's the point of going to the Jedi academy, exactly? What do they do that's special, besides apparently swear off relationships and act like know-it-alls even though they got absolutely PLAYED by Palpatine for like two decades. It seems like only the haughtiest assholes would succeed at the Jedi Academy. 

4 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

The problem is they didnt really do Sabine's story either. If you've not seen rebels then Sabine came off as almost traitorous when she made deal with Baylin. And at the least just awful for putting her desire to possibly see Ezra again (he may have been dead for all she knew) ahead of...the entire galaxy.

The show did young Ahsoka...should have done young Sabine as well to fill out the character so viewers could relate with her actions.

Hey, at least she and Ezra had that poignant conversation about this decision, about its ramifications on the sacrifice Ezra made, on the implications now that Thrawn has escaped exile which he couldn't have done without Sabine, how Ezra's pretty pissed, etc...

Oh wait, sorry, that didn't happen in the show. Sorry! :)

[tv-talk]

6 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

If the Force is essentially a biological component, and anyone who believes hard enough, regardless of actual biological force sensitivity, can USE the force as we say here...then what's the point of going to the Jedi academy, exactly? What do they do that's special, besides apparently swear off relationships and act like know-it-alls even though they got absolutely PLAYED by Palpatine for like two decades.

I think the idea is that majority of people have too little or none of the biological component in their blood. So for most, you could train for years not be able to do anything with the Force. Meanwhile if you have a lot of it in you, you could go your whole life without ever harnessing it other than wondering why you're so good at trick shots and exceedingly lucky. Then you have the Yoda/Grogu types who have so much of the stuff in their blood they dont even need training to move things with their minds. At any rate, the Jedi academy teaches people with enough stuff in their blood how to channel it into Force use. Given the droid said that Sabine was the worst student he'd seen in 400yrs, one would assume she barely has enough juice in her blood to qualify for Jedi training- but enough to come through at the last minute apparently. 

The Palpatine charade as well as Order66 has always been so absurd as to require total suspension of disbelief...

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

then what's the point of going to the Jedi academy, exactly?

That's the whole point of Ahsoka walking away from the order. I would say becoming adept at the sabre would require training from someone who knows what they're doing. My guess is that you're naturally better at it if you're strong in the force simply because you can anticipate the opponent more. Which makes the total beat down Kenobi gives Vader even more impactful. This is more of a ronin point of view, which was quite pleasing for me to see Baylan use that word.

In the Clone Wars, I'd say a lot of those who escaped Order 66 did precisely because of their 'war training' for lack of a better term. Especially Ahsoka. 

This is really the question of the whole post ROTJ galaxy. 

[tv-talk]

38 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Which makes the total beat down Kenobi gives Vader even more impactful.

That never made all that much sense to me. Dooku handled Kenobi a few times pretty easily but then Anakin was able to kill him without being pressed too hard. Plus according to Clone Wars apparently Anakin might be the most powerful Force user....ever, basically.  He bested the brother and sister at the same time, I dont think there has been any example of a stronger use of the Force than that at any point during the movies or series (that I have seen anyway).

[DoctorAtomic]

By the time Anakin killed him that was nearly their 4th or 5th rematch if you're counting the Clone Wars. Dooku handled both of them 2 on 1 a couple of times. You get better and more skilled. Dooku maybe got arrogant. 

[tv-talk]

Sure but in each encounter including the last one, Dooku was able to brush Kenobi off like he was nothing iirc. Basically I dont see a reason that Kenobi should have always been able to defeat Anakin/Darth in battle.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Major issue here for me, maybe this board can help. If the Force is essentially a biological component, and anyone who believes hard enough, regardless of actual biological force sensitivity, can USE the force as we say here...then what's the point of going to the Jedi academy, exactly? What do they do that's special, besides apparently swear off relationships and act like know-it-alls even though they got absolutely PLAYED by Palpatine for like two decades. It seems like only the haughtiest assholes would succeed at the Jedi Academy. 

I wish some kind of main Star Wars project (like a movie or live action D+ show) would explore how much the Jedi order sucked. Because from their point of view you if you were skilled in the force you had to train as Jedi and have no close personal connections, because otherwise you would fall for the temptation of the dark side and turn evil. But their super rigid ways led to the downfall of the galaxy. But then in the original movies Yoda wants to train Luke as a Jedi and in the new movies he opens his own Jedi academy. And even here Ahsoka is training Sabine using the Jedi manual and calling her a Padawan and all of that. My dream is for Mandalorian season 4 if Din just says to Grogu that he is going to teach him what he knows and help him figure out his powers, and they go from there and Grogu gets stronger without turning evil. Because otherwise the idea that only Jedi can be good force people is really stupid.

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, tv-talk said:

The problem is they didnt really do Sabine's story either. If you've not seen rebels then Sabine came off as almost traitorous when she made deal with Baylin. And at the least just awful for putting her desire to possibly see Ezra again (he may have been dead for all she knew) ahead of...the entire galaxy.

The show did young Ahsoka...should have done young Sabine as well to fill out the character so viewers could relate with her actions.

Almost traitorous???? Absolutely traitorous! I feel like this was her story because she went from betraying Ahsoka to helping her at the end and the show focused almost as much on her as on Ahsoka.

[tv-talk]

3 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

Almost traitorous???? Absolutely traitorous! I feel like this was her story because she went from betraying Ahsoka to helping her at the end and the show focused almost as much on her as on Ahsoka.

I thought it was kinda chincy that she and Ahsoka were so contented with each other and the situation at the end, would have preferred something more like "Sabine I should cut you in half for what you've done, so how the hell are you going to fix it?"

Because the way they left it, as far as Ahsoka and Sabine know, Thrawn is at least halfway to winning while they are stranded with hermit crab creatures on far side of the galaxy. There really was no reason for their chumminess at the end.

[Ilovepie]

5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I wish some kind of main Star Wars project (like a movie or live action D+ show) would explore how much the Jedi order sucked.

I kind of feel like this show was doing that with Baylon and Shin, both force users that are not Jedi, and Baylon because of his disillusionment with the Jedi.

I think it's crazy that Ahsoka would want to train Sabine as a padawan, which made no sense to me given how the Jedi treated her. But maybe she's just doing that because that was how she was trained? I still think Sabine makes a better Mandalorian than Jedi.

I read an article last night that said it was lazy, predictable and boring that Sabine was suddenly able to tap into the Force just when she needed it. It would have been more interesting seeing her trained as a Jedi without strong Force powers. Is that even possible? I guess we won't see it here........

[Kel Varnsen]

4 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Because the way they left it, as far as Ahsoka and Sabine know, Thrawn is at least halfway to winning while they are stranded with hermit crab creatures on far side of the galaxy. There really was no reason for their chumminess at the end.

Is Thrawn close to winning? Like he has one Star Destroyer and a bunch of busted up Storm Troopers. Instead of flying all the way to the fleet is there a reason Ezra couldn't have called Hera, said Thrawn and his one Star Destroyer are here, you should bring the fleet over and blow his ass up.

[tv-talk]

Just now, Kel Varnsen said:

Is Thrawn close to winning? Like he has one Star Destroyer and a bunch of busted up Storm Troopers. Instead of flying all the way to the fleet is there a reason Ezra couldn't have called Hera, said Thrawn and his one Star Destroyer are here, you should bring the fleet over and blow his ass up.

Well, it's going to turn out that whatever that cargo is will play a pivotal role in the balance of power. 

4 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

It would have been more interesting seeing her trained as a Jedi without strong Force powers. Is that even possible?

Considering she was the worst Jedi student in 400yrs and wasnt able to move a coffee cup with the Force in prior episodes- I think a Jedi without strong force powers is exactly what she's supposed to be. Or a Mando with strong force powers relative to having none like rest of Mandos.

[DoctorAtomic]

28 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I wish some kind of main Star Wars project (like a movie or live action D+ show) would explore how much the Jedi order sucked. Because from their point of view you if you were skilled in the force you had to train as Jedi and have no close personal connections, because otherwise you would fall for the temptation of the dark side and turn evil. But their super rigid ways led to the downfall of the galaxy.

That's why I wish the whole jedi concept just was left as ronin and not all this huge thing. 

14 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Instead of flying all the way to the fleet is there a reason Ezra couldn't have called Hera, said Thrawn and his one Star Destroyer are here, you should bring the fleet over and blow his ass up.

That could be his intent. Maybe he didn't want to call them up because he doesn't have the right radio codes anymore.

Ahsoka could have decided to train Sabine as a way for Sabine to deal with losing Ezra too. 

[Kel Varnsen]

31 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Or a Mando with strong force powers relative to having none like rest of Mandos.

Well there is one Mando with very strong force powers too. He is pretty popular too. Maybe he can meet Sabine if she ever makes it back to the main galaxy.

17 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

That's why I wish the whole jedi concept just was left as ronin and not all this huge thing. 

That was definitely one big thing the prequels screwed up, especially Yoda. The whole hermit martial arts master who lives in some hard to reach place is a classic movie trope that is kind of awesome. But then the prequels changed it to Yoda being the leader of a huge, centralized organization who is in hiding mainly because of the huge mistakes he made.

[DoctorAtomic]

Paramilitary organization at that. It's not like they were training to be diplomats or strictly used for peacekeeping missions. They're not supposed to be Generals. Anakin was a security guard at one point. 

Kenobi was the hermit type largely because he was tasked with watching over Luke, but you have ronin like Ahsoka who just travel to spread their philosophy or train someone like Sabine who was very depressed and needed some focus. 

[absnow54]

3 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I wish some kind of main Star Wars project (like a movie or live action D+ show) would explore how much the Jedi order sucked. Because from their point of view you if you were skilled in the force you had to train as Jedi and have no close personal connections, because otherwise you would fall for the temptation of the dark side and turn evil. But their super rigid ways led to the downfall of the galaxy

Yes! I keep waiting for this. Acknowledging that Ahsoka was a child soldier was the closest I’ve seen to pointing out the Jedi Order’s flaws. The Jedi are recruited as infants with no agency and isolated from their family so that the Order is all they have. That’s pretty messed up. 

4 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Sure but in each encounter including the last one, Dooku was able to brush Kenobi off like he was nothing iirc. Basically I dont see a reason that Kenobi should have always been able to defeat Anakin/Darth in battle.

Obi Wan trained Anakin, and knows his fighting style better than anyone. Anakin was the greatest warrior of his time, but he was also an emotional fighter, which made him sloppy. Obi Wan only ever bested Anakin by anticipating his mistakes. 

[norcalgal]

4 hours ago, tv-talk said:

That never made all that much sense to me. Dooku handled Kenobi a few times pretty easily but then Anakin was able to kill him without being pressed too hard. Plus according to Clone Wars apparently Anakin might be the most powerful Force user....ever, basically.  He bested the brother and sister at the same time, I dont think there has been any example of a stronger use of the Force than that at any point during the movies or series (that I have seen anyway).

 

3 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I read an article last night that said it was lazy, predictable and boring that Sabine was suddenly able to tap into the Force just when she needed it. It would have been more interesting seeing her trained as a Jedi without strong Force powers. Is that even possible? I guess we won't see it here........

I've watched soap operas for years. Even though I'm (kinda) inured to it, the lazy, easy, obvious answer is writers change what has been presented before to fit their particular story at any time.  I do what I want (within reason) and if it doesn't fit with what's presented before, too bad! Things change, ya know.  😒

[DoctorAtomic]

Maybe being on the planet allowed her to tap into the Force.

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Yes! I keep waiting for this. Acknowledging that Ahsoka was a child soldier was the closest I’ve seen to pointing out the Jedi Order’s flaws. The Jedi are recruited as infants with no agency and isolated from their family so that the Order is all they have. That’s pretty messed up. 

I feel like they were kind of going there with The Last Jedi, what with the title and the whole scene with Luke and Yoda and burning down the little temple. If they had kept that plot it would have been a massively satisfying conclusion to the 9 movie series (Luke realizing the Jedi order is stupid and Rey going to find her own path). But then in the next movie she is back doing Jedi training.

For the D+ shows I feel like they could have possibly dug into that theme, with Grogu walking away from Luke and here Ahsoka finding a different way to teach Sabine. But I get a sense from watching the behind the scenes stuff on the D+ shows that Filoni is a freaking George Lucas super fan who loves him and everything that he has done. So he probably won't be doing anything that goes against Lucas's vision for the series.

[baldryanr]

17 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I read an article last night that said it was lazy, predictable and boring that Sabine was suddenly able to tap into the Force just when she needed it. It would have been more interesting seeing her trained as a Jedi without strong Force powers. Is that even possible? I guess we won't see it here........

I mean, someone without strong Force powers would need to take a lot of precautions in combat (i.e. a full Beskar suit of armor and a blaster) because they wouldn't be able to block incoming blaster shots nor duel a stronger Force user.  So what Sabine has already been doing.  That being said, a powerhouse like Anakin could have just done a Force-grab and slammed her into the ground, or choked her, etc.

The weaker Jedi are more suited for non-combat roles.

[tv-talk]

15 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Obi Wan only ever bested Anakin by anticipating his mistakes. 

What mistake did he make in Ben Kenobi? Iirc correctly Obi Wan just got so angry as to overwhelm Vader, which is very Anakin. Also note how Dooku was so powerful as to ragdoll Obi-Wan with ease. That is the type of force Anakin has 10x over according to Clone Wars. Basically I'm just pointing out the inconsistency with how they portrayed Anakin in CW vs live action. And I was thinking about that because they're on the planet where it was discovered Anakin was the strongest force user ever- and Ahsoka died.

[Orbert]

Just chiming in to say that as someone who didn't watch any of the animated content, I found this whole series a bit boring.  Lots of references to things that many viewers knew but most didn't, Ahsoka being serene and stoic (and boring) most of the time, lots of characters with agendas we don't understand and honestly were never really explained.  It was okay, and from what I understand, it's a worthy follow-up to Rebels and The Clone Wars, but that was all lost on me.  And as many predicted, nothing was really wrapped up, either.

The title of this episode got a chuckle out of me, though.  Well, the kind of chuckle that's also a half-groan.

[norcalgal]

51 minutes ago, Orbert said:

The title of this episode got a chuckle out of me, though. 

I couldn't help thinking of the old joke:  a priest, an iman and a rabbi (or some other trio) walk into a bar...  [which is the prologue for many jokes].

So why did they title this season finale this way? Do they subconsciously think this episode (or even the whole series) is a joke?  😮

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Orbert said:

And as many predicted, nothing was really wrapped up, either.

That is sort of the other problem I have had with all these sort of Mandalorian spin off shows. They have sort of fallen into that Marvel trap where they all have to lead to the next thing. And since we already know these shows are going to lead to a movie they can't really finish off much here. It is all about getting the pieces in place so that when Grogu and Mando and Boba Fett and No Katan and Ahsoka fight Thrawn they are all where they need to be.

 

By comparison we already know how Cassian Andor's story ends, so his show can pretty much do whatever it wants to fill in the blanks and tell stories about what happened before Rogue One. And it was awesome.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, norcalgal said:

why did they title this season finale this way? Do they subconsciously think this episode (or even the whole series) is a joke?

I thought it was a play on the The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe. 

[Orbert]

It was definitely a play on The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe.  It seemed a bit odd to name an episode of a Star Wars series after that, but it did fit perfectly, which is why I chuckled.

[Fool to cry]

I've heard irate fans say the show didn't make them want to watch Clone Wars and Rebels but they're going to have to whether they want to or not. I feel Filoni was using this show as a way of saying those shows the snobby older fans ignored for being animated and only being for kids FUCKING mattered and are now important to future live action Star Wars so you better be caught up or end up lost! 

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Fool to cry said:

I've heard irate fans say the show didn't make them want to watch Clone Wars and Rebels but they're going to have to whether they want to or not. I feel Filoni was using this show as a way of saying those shows the snobby older fans ignored for being animated and only being for kids FUCKING mattered and are now important to future live action Star Wars so you better be caught up or end up lost! 

To be fair, it might not just be because they were animated, but for Rebels at least it originally came out on the Disney XD channel. And even Disney's own marketing says that is a channel for 6-11 year olds.