S02.E06: Eyes Without Pity

[AnimeMania]

Rand makes a risky alliance and Egwene gathers her strength to confront the horror of her circumstances.

Premiere Date: September 22, 2023    Prime Video   

[quarks]

I did like the way that every single Evil with a capital E person in this episode was all like, "I'm just trying to help," whether this was Ishy trying to get Min not to tell Mat about her visions, or Lanfear telling Rand that she's on his side and has been protecting him, or Lanfear chatting with Liandrin, in a scene so well done that Lanfear almost convinced me that she was doing the right thing even while she was just casually murdering someone. Yikes.

And then Renna, assuring Egwene that the entire point of this is to ensure that Egwene reaches her full potential.  I did like Renna pointing out that the White Tower was forcing Egwene to do chores instead of teaching her to use the One Power - something that Maigan probably overheard, not that Maigan's in a position to do much about White Tower training. But, uh, Renna, if I may, I kinda prefer the White Tower version of making novices mop floor to your torture training. Again, yikes.

And then all the other small/big things in the episode: Mat/Rand reunion! Almost immediately crushed by Min! Min, realizing that she's stuck with the visions now, but still trying to do the right thing! Elayne, making a second friend! Moraine, finally letting the audience know that she's been stilled, not shielded. Loial showing us that when he sings, trees grow!  (Good thing given that the Seanchan training just destroyed a tree.) Moraine, maybe perhaps belatedly realizing that all of this keeping secrets and pushing people away is kinda encouraging them to listen to Lanfear! And that it's ok to enjoy a sandwich!

But obviously this was mostly Egwene's episode. Absolutely brutal to watch.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by quarks

[Danny Franks]

I knew this was going to be a rough episode to watch. Egwene's ordeal in the books was tough to read, and seeing it on screen was just as bad.

Renna treating her like a frightened animal was perfectly on point. The Seanchan simply don't see women who can channel as humans. The casual, impersonal kindness and the equally casual cruelty. The detail of the a'dam collar cutting into her neck was an effective touch.

I liked the pitcher as the emblem of Egwene's resistance. Though I'd prefer the show had made the passage of time clearer to show that she was being broken down over a longer period.

It was nice to see Loial's Treesinging ability, even if it came from the Seanchan being, 'oh, look at this freakish thing. Isn't it entertaining?' They just fucking suck.

Nynaeve and Elayne bickering. So good. I love seeing Elayne already losing her patience with Nynaeve's sheer, stubborn disagreeableness. Elayne tinkering with things again, trying to figure out the ter'angreal.

I stan Lanfear. She's so fucking crazy, but it's all hidden under a thin veneer. You just see glimpses of it, from time to time. She's so good at putting doubts in Rand's head, but so susceptible to him putting doubts in hers. You can see her yearning for him to love her (which just makes her scarier).

And then she was so different in her scene with Liandrin. No attempts to charm her at all, just unnerving and unpredictable. That was fucking dark. She just kills Liandrin's son in front of her, and there's not a thing Liandrin can do. She's spent all these years, even sworn to the Shadow, to keep her son alive and along comes a Forsaken to just make it all worthless.

I really like seeing more of Moiraine's flaws, and her singular drive that comes off as so incredibly selfish and cold. And it is, because you feel like there has to be a way for her to combine her mission to win the Last Battle with being a decent person.

Love Rand and Mat's reunion. Their sheer joy at seeing each other again, Mat immediately asking after the others. Mat hears Rand's story and learns that Ishamael has Egwene held captive. His response? "So... we'll go." Min should have kept her mouth shut. Mat's self-loathing clearly overrides everything else, when given the slightest pretext.

Lan's story is still just a bit of a headshake. Alanna and her guys really thought he was a darkfriend? Really? The show needs to cast some more Aes Sedai, so it's not just the same five or six, shown over and over again.

[quarks]

4 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Lan's story is still just a bit of a headshake. Alanna and her guys really thought he was a darkfriend? Really? The show needs to cast some more Aes Sedai, so it's not just the same five or six, shown over and over again.

And, forgive me if I missed something, but Alanna now holds Lan's bond, right? So she presumably should be able to get some sort of additional reading/vibe from him that would give her a better grasp on his intentions. And, also, if they were so concerned about Lan wandering around with a Lanfear poem, why not confront him sooner? I mean I know the answer is "TO INCREASE THE DRAMA" but...it wasn't the episode's strongest moment.

I agree that this could have worked better had one of the other Aes Sedai - someone who isn't holding Lan's bond and whose Warders aren't long term friends with Lan - made this accusation. Granted, we haven't seen all that many Aes Sedai on the show and at least a couple of them are now broken prisoners, but...Liane, Sheriam, the person who IMDB identifies as Joiya, the Brown Ajah folks....there do seem to be one or two alternatives here.

[MissLucas]

I fast forwarded through Egwene's scenes - that stuff was hard enough to deal with in the books.

Lanfear's domina get-up was a tad too much for me. But her scene with Liandrin was fantastic. And we got some backstory on Liandrin as well. This show is really good at making me care for the bad/evil characters. Well, with the exception of the Seanchan they can go f*** themselves - preferably with their long nails.

Rand and Mat was heartbreaking. There are supposedly good reasons to stay away from each other for both of them but it's Mat who manages to do it - for all the wrong reasons but it's still an interesting dynamic played out.

I was surprised at Moraine playing the heir card.  It's nice that she apologized to her nephew but the one who really deserves an apology is her sister. Though I guess she had her revenge with that line about their mother - it certainly hit a nerve.

Lan's plot did really not make much sense. They needed all the major players in Cairhien and that's how they managed that but it was a bit clumsily done.

[thuganomics85]

It's safe to say that no one here has had it easy to put it mildly, but between this and the torturing the White Cloaks gave her last season, Egwene really has been put through the ringer on this show.  All of her scenes were brutal to watch and it all ending with her broken (for now, hopefully) was a harsh ending.  The actress playing Renna was great as well.  Really sold her as someone who truly thought she was in the right and "helping" Egwene in her own way, but she clearly doesn't consider her even close to an equal.  It really felt like a owner/pet relationship and Egwene was being "broken in."  Yikes!  Hope Egwene gets her revenge someday.

The Aes Sedai who pretty much sacrificed herself to protect Elayne and Nynaeve can at least can hold her head up high for taking a few of the Seanchan out with her, but not only does she lose her Warder, but is captured instead of killed, so now she's basically a slave as well.  Damn!  Elayne continues to be the voice of calmness in all of this, and is able to make the tough choices like preventing Nynaeve from interfering.  Elayne really is one of the best cases of a newly introduced character truly shining on a show.

At least we get a temporary (?) reunion with Rand and Mat.  Credit to both actors because despite the Mat recast, they really do sell the reunion and made it feel like two long lost friends reuniting.  But now Mat finds out the truth from Min about her visions and seems to be staying away.  Oh, and Rand is greeted by Lan and Alanna (and her Warders), and it doesn't seem like it's going to be a friendly conversation.

Siuan!  Great to see her again.  Always down for more Sophie Okonedo awesomeness!

Liandrin continues to realize just what she has gotten herself into and how littler her power compares to the likes of The Dark One and now Lanfear.

Moiraine was definitely on her worst behavior here, but at least she made things right with Barthanes at the end.  Loved that Anvaere continues to unflinching call her big sister out.  Lindsay Duncan rules!

Natasha O'Keeffe and Fares Fares continues to own every scene they are in.  Really digging both of them as the main advisories.

Again, I actually enjoyed the first season quite a bit but it's been kind of crazy how much this season has improved upon that in most every aspect.  Hopefully others give it a try because I think this show has potential to be something special.

Edited September 22, 2023 by thuganomics85

[tennisgurl]

So, everyone who wants to see the Seanchan all die in a thousand fires, please raise their hands. *raises hand* Poor Egwene, that was really hard to watch but Madeleine Madden and the actress playing Renna were both excellent. Renna has this really creepy way of talking, like she's talking to a wild animal she's trying to tame, which is really how she sees this horror show because she doesn't see Egwene as a person. She sounds so calm and reassuring even as she's doing horrible things, its so much more creepy than her being a cackling sadist. It seems like Egwene has hit her breaking point but hopefully its just for a short amount of time. 

Elayne has really become this seasons MVP, she's a real ride or die kind of friend. She's sweet but can really dig her heels in when she needs to, which is necessary when dealing with Nynaeve, getting her to stop and think things through when it comes to her friends is no easy feat. It seems like Nynaeve can respect that, looks like Elayne might have a grand total of two friends now! Hopefully when they save Egwene they can save the woman who sacrificed herself for them. 

 Loial's tree growing song sounded really cool and being able to grow plants is a pretty awesome power, but of course the Seachan just want to point and laugh at the freak. They're really just the fucking worst. 

Lanfear's wicked witch getup in the dreamscape was something else, I am coming to quickly love her so much. She's so charismatic that its hard to tell how deranged she is until she starts casually tearing peoples faces off, but much like Renna, she has this way of making the things she says sound totally reasonable and even caring even as she's doing horrible things. I do actually buy that she has some affection for Rand, but she could just be so convincing that she's messing with me to. 

Awww Matt and Rand's reunion was really sweet, kudos to the actors for really selling it even with the change of actors. Sadly it looks like its going to be a short lived reunion thanks to Min's prophesy, but hopefully everyone will come back together soon. Nobody's having a good time on their own!

Moiraine really is a terrible houseguest, she has a lot of nerve trying to pull the heir card after she treated her sister and nephew so coldly while they let her crash at their house even after she ghosted her family for decades. She couldn't even make it back to be with her dying father? At least she apologized to her adorable nephew, maybe her sister will be next, depending on how this next mess goes. 

I really have liked this season a lot, its a big improvement on the first season, but oh my god TURN ON A LIGHT! Did someone on this show make a bet that they could shoot the most scenes in the dark of any show this season?

[paigow]

Episode title could have been easily changed to give this guy a cameo...

[AnimeMania]

18 minutes ago, paigow said:

Episode title could have been easily changed to give this guy a cameo...

Eyes Without a Face 

Dancing with Myself

Rebel Yell (this one might work)

All seem like they would have worked better for the previous episode.

[DoctorAtomic]

Rand did a good job not being too freaked out by Lanfear in the first dreamworld scene, and Moiraine did a good job not trying to strangle him. I liked that she was all "duh" about Logain, "who else is going to teach you?" This isn't anything book related, but I'm leaning in to Rand playing a long game here and maybe sending away Moiraine was his idea and he's trying a double con. He calmed down way fast when he said "I'll do anything" to Lanfear. 

I can't believe someone as calculating as Moiraine wouldn't entertain that Rand was running a con. 

It's "da-co-val-lay?" I was saying "day-co-val".  

The scene where Lanfear kills Liandrin's son was absolutely chilling. I can't say I feel for her that much. It's like taking a loan from the mafia. 

If the adam gives back on the damane (da-mane), then Egwene must be able to throw one hell of a punch. 

Ishamael - I have altered the terms of the deal. Pray I do not alter them further. 

I liked Alanna's line about "what you're willing changes when what you're faced with". It's the "So is it you can't take off your helmet or don't show your face?"

Lanfear called Ishamael "Ishy". Those two are just killing it. 

Why was Egwene's slaveholder's face all scarred? Was it from having to wear the mask all the time, or ritualistic? Were her teeth real? She's got some choppers. 

For a Yellow, that lady wrecked shop. 

20 hours ago, quarks said:

Moraine, finally letting the audience know that she's been stilled, not shielded.

I thought she was only shielded. When she fled Verin's languid estate and was attacked by the Fade, and Lan jumped in to fight, she channeled a trickle, but couldn't do anything. They showed the sparkly around her hand. If you're stilled, I don't think you could do even that. I think she thinks she's stilled.

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

And it is, because you feel like there has to be a way for her to combine her mission to win the Last Battle with being a decent person.

She's way older though. What's an arranged marriage and status in your little nation when the literal dark is loose on the world, bent on obliterating literally everything? I certainly can appreciate Moiraine is so over everything at this point. I barely have time for nonsense at my own work. Plus, she was repudiated by Rand, whom she just was able to start a good relationship with. I did like how she pulled rank *hard*. This is my house, Lindsay Duncan. 

11 hours ago, quarks said:

And, forgive me if I missed something, but Alanna now holds Lan's bond, right?

I didn't get that she has Lan's bond, because, clearly, they would know that he isn't a Darkfriend. I think the show would have made a clear point that Lan consented to be bonded, and no way he's consenting. Credit to Alanna though, when Lan told her what was up, they immediately went to Siuan. 

[SueB]

I could watch Natasha O'Keeffe chew scenery all day.  She’s such a master manipulator.  
 

Smart of Rand to check on Egwene.  Of course it has to be a trap.  That’s why Liandrin took Egwene there.  
 

I loved seeing the Mat/Rand greeting.  Io need them to team up.  
 

I like the tension between Ishy and Lanfear. 
 

Surouth is wretched.  
 

Elayne and Nynaeve are a terrific team-up.  And the yellow who helped?  Awesome.  That battle against the Seanchan was brutal.  
 

Finally, Egwene versus Renna - WOW.  Brutal and effective scene.  The actress playing Renna was spectacular, as was Madeleine Madden.  So well done. 

[Blue Plastic]

Egwene's eyes looked worse and worse throughout the "breaking in" scenes. That made all the beatings she was getting seem more real. I'm assuming some kind of contact lenses were used.

I interpreted that scene to mean that Suroth was concerned that the other Seanchan were becoming impressed with Loisal's tree singing and might develop respect for him, so she laughed and clapped and successfully made it seem like a cheap party trick.

I'm really liking the Elayne character.

I hate the Seanchan so much.

[Tachi Rocinante]

Absolutely loving this season.

Quick question for book readers - is this season all Book 2?  Or are they compressing the books to keep things moving?

I want to start reading, but for every friend who loved the series, I have two who either quit around Book 7 or "slogged through just to see the end".

[Avaleigh]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:49 PM, tennisgurl said:

So, everyone who wants to see the Seanchan all die in a thousand fires, please raise their hands. *raises hand* Poor Egwene, that was really hard to watch but Madeleine Madden and the actress playing Renna were both excellent. Renna has this really creepy way of talking, like she's talking to a wild animal she's trying to tame, which is really how she sees this horror show because she doesn't see Egwene as a person. She sounds so calm and reassuring even as she's doing horrible things, its so much more creepy than her being a cackling sadist. It seems like Egwene has hit her breaking point but hopefully its just for a short amount of time. 

Yes. I hate the Seanchan. The whitecloaks and the Seanchan are the absolute worst groups in this series along with the Forsaken. With the whitecloaks in particular there's a lot of misogyny layered into the torture that makes them extra vile to me. The Seanchan are sadistic, powerhungry assholes who have taken slavery to horrific new lows. 

Egwene's scenes were indeed hard to watch, but I think her story was the most compelling of the episode. If ever there is a character I'm rooting for on this show it's her. I am very okay with Renna getting a painful comeuppance. I want Egwene to give her the beating she's had coming to her for years. Clearly this isn't Renna's first time doing this to somebody. What I'm hoping for is some sort of moment where all of the collars are broken at the same time and all the girls and women who are collared turn their rage on their former "masters". That would be a real dracarys moment for me with this show. 

2 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Quick question for book readers - is this season all Book 2?  Or are they compressing the books to keep things moving?

I want to start reading, but for every friend who loved the series, I have two who either quit around Book 7 or "slogged through just to see the end".

I'm only on book 6 but so far the show is blending and compressing to keep things moving as you say. There seems to be some amalgamation with certain characters too.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Avaleigh

[Danny Franks]

10 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Absolutely loving this season.

Quick question for book readers - is this season all Book 2?  Or are they compressing the books to keep things moving?

I want to start reading, but for every friend who loved the series, I have two who either quit around Book 7 or "slogged through just to see the end".

This season has book two's overall plot, but there are elements of both books one and three, in different storylines.

Perrin meets Elyas in book one, for example. And Rand is off on his own in book three, but the Selene stuff is in book two. Meanwhile, we don't meet Aviendha until book three. The girls are all firmly in book two.

I think most of book three will be glossed over without losing too much that's important. But there will be some elements of it folded into season three.

 

[HappyHanna]

Can aes sedai not commit suicide? I have only read book one,  so maybe this is a book question (and yes,  this is nobooktalk, but there isn't a booktalk for this episode). Just wondering why Ryma didn't try to do so once her warder was killed.  She should have had time,  versus a final attack.  

[quarks]

11 hours ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

Absolutely loving this season.

Quick question for book readers - is this season all Book 2?  Or are they compressing the books to keep things moving?

I want to start reading, but for every friend who loved the series, I have two who either quit around Book 7 or "slogged through just to see the end".

Mostly book 2, but as others have said, Aviendha doesn't show up until book 3, and although Perrin meets Elyas in book 1, he is otherwise more or less following his book 3 plot.

The series consists of 14 books. Supposedly the plan is for the show to go on for eight seasons - I'm not confident that will happen, mind you, but that's supposedly the plan - so I'm expecting later seasons to cut quite a bit from the books.

2 minutes ago, HappyHanna said:

Can aes sedai not commit suicide? I have only read book one,  so maybe this is a book question (and yes,  this is nobooktalk, but there isn't a booktalk for this episode). Just wondering why Ryma didn't try to do so once her warder was killed.  She should have had time,  versus a final attack.  

Mostly a book question, since the show hasn't gone into the Three Oaths all that much. 

But since they have come up, the Three Oaths are:

1. Speak no word that isn't true (we can see Moraine struggling with this one)

2. Not use the One Power as a weapon except in the final defense of her life or the life of her Warder

3. Not use the One Power to make weapons

From what I could see, Ryma didn't have a normal, non magical weapon like a dagger or a sword on her. So to commit suicide, she would have needed to use the One Power - and she can't use the One Power as a weapon unless she's using it in self-defense. I don't think the Three Oaths would count suicide as self-defense. Add in her shock and grief when her Warder died and....yeah, I don't think she was able to commit suicide at that point. And once she had the collar on, she really couldn't commit suicide.

[DoctorAtomic]

We've already seen on the show that use can draw on too much power and burn yourself out. She already had the collar on though. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[Noneofyourbusiness]

12 hours ago, quarks said:

Supposedly the plan is for the show to go on for eight seasons

That's funny, that was also the plan for Infinity Train, another show with an infinity motif, in that case, at least, intentionally because the infinity symbol resembles an eight.

[Ottis]

On 9/25/2023 at 9:48 AM, Tachi Rocinante said:

I want to start reading, but for every friend who loved the series, I have two who either quit around Book 7 or "slogged through just to see the end".

I read the books so long ago, I lost track of when I stopped. I need to check that. I'm guessing there were at least a few more books after I stopped. I remember stopping because the book I had just read was one, long treatise on ... something, with very little actually happening.

The best bad guys are bad guys who may have a point. The Seanchan believing that women who can draw on the One Power are dangerous aren't wrong. Their solution is drastic, but if it evolved from paying a societal price to Aes Sedea, I can buy that. If the show then makes the Seanchan moustache-twirling bad, I'll be disappointed. 

On 9/22/2023 at 3:49 PM, tennisgurl said:

I really have liked this season a lot, its a big improvement on the first season, but oh my god TURN ON A LIGHT!

Hahahahaha. I'm with you. 

[Absurda]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:38 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Elayne continues to be the voice of calmness in all of this, and is able to make the tough choices like preventing Nynaeve from interfering.  Elayne really is one of the best cases of a newly introduced character truly shining on a show.

I'm really getting the vibe that when Elayne becomes queen she's been VERY well prepared and she's going to be f-ing awesome! 

On 9/22/2023 at 9:50 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

This isn't anything book related, but I'm leaning in to Rand playing a long game here and maybe sending away Moiraine was his idea and he's trying a double con. He calmed down way fast when he said "I'll do anything" to Lanfear. 

I just don't by Rand as smart enough to think of something like that let alone pull it off against Moiraine.  Book Rand may be different, but show Rand is the character I like least.  I don't hate him, but I think he and his story (along with Mat's) are the weakest, least interesting parts of the show.

[DoctorAtomic]

At the least, I think he was freaked out at everything happening so fast and was just trying to buy time.