Kitchen Nightmares (US) - General Discussion

[Yeah No]

This show is jumping straight from a hot mess of a restaurant to the renovation and new menu in the last 5 minutes of each episode.  How ridiculous is that?   "Juicy Box" is still open in spite of itself.  It's hard to believe that the father and son are even related.  And then now we're supposed to believe the son has seen the light and is now suddenly working hard?  There was absolutely nothing presented to make me believe that would ever happen.

[vibeology]

15 hours ago, Meowwww said:

This abusive jerk Chris and his mom and future mother in law babying him at Love Bites.   He disgusts me.  Yelling mean insults at his fiancee, blaming anxiety. He’s so much like my ex…I hate him so much.  I can’t believe his fiancée’s mom babies him, she needs to stick up for her daughter, she’s not what a mom should be. 
Narcissistic jerk, I’m glad the restaurant is closed. I hope Tess left him.  
Let me tell you how I really feel.  

I feel the exact same. The restaurant may be gone but he'll find another "source of stress" to use as as excuse to bully and abuse Tess. It'll be wedding planning, having kids, whatever job he has. Anything. Her only hope is to get away. Their dynamic is too established at this point that I don't think therapy will help.

And over the years we've seen disgusting walk-ins, rotting food, deplorable conditions but nothing has grossed me out more than Chris dry-heaving over the food he was about to serve people.

The concept of "person who dreamed of owning a restaurant finding out he doesn't have the personality type for it and getting in way over his head" was a much needed change from the rest of the assholes who thought restaurants would be easy money machines but I did not like Chris. Still an asshole just in a different way.

Even when everything was running smoothly he manufactured a problem just so he could abuse the people around him. 

There must not be many restaurants in that town for them to be so busy while the food was bad and the yelling could be heard throughout the restaurant.

Edited November 14, 2023 by vibeology

[seacliffsal]

I think this episode was insightful.  Usually we see that the owners had no idea how to run a restaurant, dirty kitchens, etc.  This time we saw the real emotional impact of being in a high stress situation.  We also saw that just because someone wants to own a restaurant that one should be willing to walk away and ignore how deep they are in to the sunk cost fallacy.  

Chris did get everyone around him to cater to him, including Tess' mom.  I think there was a lot of emotional abuse going on, but I also think Chris has some really unresolved issues.  I think Gordon realized a lot of what was going on so focused on separating them and getting Chris in to therapy.  No guarantee Chris will continue with therapy and Tess did go back to Chris.

Filming this show must be hard on Gordon as so many people don't listen to his advice and in this episode Chris and Tess were quick to put the restaurant up for sale after the renovation which they did not have to pay.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

Filming this show must be hard on Gordon as so many people don't listen to his advice and in this episode Chris and Tess were quick to put the restaurant up for sale after the renovation which they did not have to pay.

Maybe it’s the cynic in me, but I wonder if that was their plan from the getgo-get Gordon to renovate so they could sell it?

[Tango64]

Juicy Box: If I sit down to a meal that's probably going to be fairly expensive with items like whole snapper, and then you give me a plastic knife and fork, I'm walking out. 

They should have named it The Juice Box. Everyone remembers loving a juice box as a kid. 

Love Bites: What kind of person yells "Shut up!" at people all the time? Stress and dry heaves be damned, that's just a personality issue. You'd only get one opportunity to yell that at me.

[Madding crowd]

The last episode seemed more about mental health issues than running a restaurant. I couldn’t believe they had all those customers with the guy yelling and dry heaving all over the place. Tess seemed like a sweetheart and needs to run far away from this guy unless he gets some serious counseling. This show is too much like Bar Rescue now.

[Tango64]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

This show is jumping straight from a hot mess of a restaurant to the renovation and new menu in the last 5 minutes of each episode. 

That's what I don't like about this show. Gordon shows the food is terrible, the freezer and/or kitchen is a deathtrap, the owners and staff are incompetent and/or don't care and/or are just terrible people. Commercial break, heartfelt pep talk and hugs, reopening where everything goes well with a few hiccups. Credits. 

It never seems believable. People that dysfunctional don't just completely change overnight because Gordon talked to them

[Colorado David]

I cant handle this Love Bites episode. Poor Tess has been through so much in her life, and this prick Chris doesn't deserve someone like her. I hope she bails on him and I hope he is miserable and a failure wherever he ends up.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I hated the way Chris treated everyone, especially Tess.  I was sick when Tess's mother sided with Chris and made excuses for his treatment of her daughter.   

 

[rmontro]

5 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I hated the way Chris treated everyone, especially Tess.  I was sick when Tess's mother sided with Chris and made excuses for his treatment of her daughter.   

I wonder what he was doing to keep those three women on his side, considering the abusive way he treated them.  Maybe I could understand his own mother, but that's about it.  My guess is that after Gordon left, he quickly reverted to his old self, and they decided to sell the restaurant in a last ditch effort to save their relationship.  Hopefully they try working in separate jobs if they stay together.

This was one of the few episodes where they never talked at all about their financial situation, so maybe they weren't deep in the hole like most of the restaurants on this show.  It looked like they kept busy ("I'll have the dry heave special"). 

Maybe the reason they stayed above water was because with Chris cooking, they didn't have to pay a chef.  Maybe that wasn't feasible, because it seemed to me the logical solution would be to get somebody in there to do the cooking.  I didn't see any indication at all that Chris had any desire whatsoever to be a chef, or enjoyed cooking in any way, shape, or form.

[Yeah No]

19 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I wonder what he was doing to keep those three women on his side, considering the abusive way he treated them.  Maybe I could understand his own mother, but that's about it.  My guess is that after Gordon left, he quickly reverted to his old self, and they decided to sell the restaurant in a last ditch effort to save their relationship.  Hopefully they try working in separate jobs if they stay together.

This was one of the few episodes where they never talked at all about their financial situation, so maybe they weren't deep in the hole like most of the restaurants on this show.  It looked like they kept busy ("I'll have the dry heave special"). 

Maybe the reason they stayed above water was because with Chris cooking, they didn't have to pay a chef.  Maybe that wasn't feasible, because it seemed to me the logical solution would be to get somebody in there to do the cooking.  I didn't see any indication at all that Chris had any desire whatsoever to be a chef, or enjoyed cooking in any way, shape, or form.

I think Chris acting like the poor, trapped prisoner got the mothers' sympathy.  I don't know if he was doing it manipulatively or it just pressed their co-dependent buttons.  I've seen it over and over again, especially with mothers and mother figures and their sons where the women get sucked into a pattern of codependency and enabling.  I almost can't even think of any examples I am personally aware of where this pattern has happened with daughters.

Chris is clearly someone with acute anxiety brought on by stress.  He may like cooking but the stress of performing under pressure is too much for him.  If I were Tess I would have put my foot down with him long ago and told him he needed therapy or we were done.  I think she too was caught up in feeling bad and sorry for him and didn't want to shake things up because in her view he was the only person they had that could perform his role in the kitchen.  She also may have been suffering from fears of what the other potential consequences would be if she did that, such as them breaking up.  It would have been too hard for her to handle so she avoided it and unfortunately the situation just went on and on.  

I'm not surprised at all that they decided to sell the restaurant.  Perhaps that was what they were thinking about all along.  The problem with this show is that it is often beyond Gordon's ability to solve the REAL problem, which is usually something only the owner or chef can change themselves (and is either unable or unwilling to change) so how can he possibly save the restaurant?  It's a setup for failure.  Is this what whoever is choosing these restaurants think the viewers want to see?  Because I don't think it is.  

Also, while I think choosing to work on their relationship is admirable I hate to say I don't give that much hope either because Chris strikes me as someone that is going to be resistant to therapy at this point.  I hope Tess doesn't waste too much time on that relationship if that's the case.

[NJRadioGuy]

Love Bites was not fixable unless Chris The Jerk hired an actual chef to run the kitchen, and trusted him to do the job. The food seemed to be OK(ish), and they weren't lacking for customers, so finding a local cook who could run that tiny kitchen should have been an easy thing to do and relieve Chris' workload and the anxiety that came with it.

He definitely needs serious couch time and anger management counselling based on what was presented on screen. Tess was enabling him, and things would get even more toxic if they'd continued without GRRR's intervention. He treated her like garbage and there's no excuse for that whatsoever. But it's up to her whether she wanted to continue on with him in life. He's definitely shown his true colors, however.

[seacliffsal]

I think Tess stated that they couldn't find a full-time chef and that's why Chris was cooking.  They may have originally just wanted to own and manage a restaurant and not actually do the cooking.  But, after 6 years they should have figured out how to take some of the cooking responsibilities off of Chris.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

I think Tess stated that they couldn't find a full-time chef and that's why Chris was cooking.  They may have originally just wanted to own and manage a restaurant and not actually do the cooking.  But, after 6 years they should have figured out how to take some of the cooking responsibilities off of Chris.

I agree and I don't buy it that they couldn't find a chef after 6 years.  His standards must have been way too high or he was unwilling to pay enough to get a decent chef.  Let's face it, this is a joint not haute cuisine, so how hard could it have been?  Plus I've been to Saugerties, it's in the Hudson Valley/Catskill region mid point between Poughkeepsie and Albany, NY.  It's not exactly in the middle of nowhere.  It's about 80 miles from where I live in CT.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're hiding the fact that they hired people that quit because they couldn't deal with Chris's personality.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they're hiding the fact that they hired people that quit because they couldn't deal with Chris's personality.

Didn't that one line cook/chef? say that Chris wouldn't let anyone else do the cooking or something? Yet Chris admits to Gordon he doesn't like cooking? So many lies.

 

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, Yeah No said:

The problem with this show is that it is often beyond Gordon's ability to solve the REAL problem, which is usually something only the owner or chef can change themselves (and is either unable or unwilling to change) so how can he possibly save the restaurant?  It's a setup for failure. 

I think you're spot on there.  The real problem with a lot of these restaurants are simply beyond Gordon's ability to fix.  It would be nice to see restaurants that he could bring around more permanently.

They said Chris and Tess knew each other when they were 12, then later reconnected.  I think that might help explain how they're still together, because knowing someone when you're young like that can cause a deep bond.  Because I think most couples dealing with what they were would have split up by now.

[NJRadioGuy]

I don't think anyone would fault Tess for kicking his entitled arse to the curb. But with that said, the fact they were childhood sweethearts and that he's stayed with her through surgeries and accepted her lifetime medical issues that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, I think she has a connection with him that's not likely to be broken easily, and I think her mum understands that too. But he better wise up. I don't think he has the slightest idea of how good he had it.

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

I don't think anyone would fault Tess for kicking his entitled arse to the curb. But with that said, the fact they were childhood sweethearts and that he's stayed with her through surgeries and accepted her lifetime medical issues that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, I think she has a connection with him that's not likely to be broken easily, and I think her mum understands that too. But he better wise up. I don't think he has the slightest idea of how good he had it.

The story they were telling was that he was a different person outside of work than he was at work.  IF that is true, then they probably have a decent chance at a relationship.  The question is if it's really true.  And what other kind of work is he going to be able to find that isn't going to turn him from Jekyll to Hyde?

[oliviabenson]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:12 AM, jcbrown said:

And it's a terrible name for a restaurant, full stop. I get that they had a "-box" theme going for their other places but Juicy Box? Really? Am I a complete degenerate for not hearing that name as a restaurant name? Just me?

I thought hey that’s a cute nickname for girls private parts lol. 

[oliviabenson]

https://dailyvoice.com/new-york/northorange/hudson-valley-restaurant-to-appear-on-kitchen-nightmares/

Love bites was sold before the taping 

https://realitytvupdates.com/kitchen-nightmares/love-bites-cafe/

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

The story they were telling was that he was a different person outside of work than he was at work.  IF that is true, then they probably have a decent chance at a relationship.  The question is if it's really true.  And what other kind of work is he going to be able to find that isn't going to turn him from Jekyll to Hyde?

True, he seems so bad off that most jobs would probably give him the dry heaves and he'd displace his anxiety and frustration on his girlfriend when he gets home.  I wonder what he's doing now.  Do they have enough money to live on while he gets his act together?  There's so much here we don't know.

6 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

I don't think anyone would fault Tess for kicking his entitled arse to the curb. But with that said, the fact they were childhood sweethearts and that he's stayed with her through surgeries and accepted her lifetime medical issues that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, I think she has a connection with him that's not likely to be broken easily, and I think her mum understands that too. But he better wise up. I don't think he has the slightest idea of how good he had it.

That kind of relationship can end up like a trap with no way out and a roller coaster.  Really good in one way, toxic in another.  After the pan scale analysis is it worth keeping?  Perhaps, but maybe only as friends, not a romantic relationship.  It might end up taking too much of a toll on Tess if he doesn't work out his issues.  And issues that bad might take a long time to resolve.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Yeah No

[oliviabenson]

I’m so not interested I’m 2 episodes behind. 
 

Looks like I’m not missing anything amazing.

[Tango64]

14 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

Love bites was sold before the taping 

What? I read the link and it says they applied to be on the show, sold the restaurant in the meantime, then went ahead with the taping. And the producers apparently were aware.

So the whole episode was a sham. I'm not naive about "reality" tv, but c'mon Gordon, that's not cool.

[Colorado David]

4 hours ago, Tango64 said:

What? I read the link and it says they applied to be on the show, sold the restaurant in the meantime, then went ahead with the taping. And the producers apparently were aware.

So the whole episode was a sham. I'm not naive about "reality" tv, but c'mon Gordon, that's not cool.

that is so bogus if they did that. help a real restaurant, not this drama fodder.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Once the contracts are signed then there are huge penalties for pulling out of the filming. 

This came up in interviews with Trading Spaces participants who wanted to pull out of filming, or wanted to quit.   The basic contract says if you cancel filming, that you're responsible for all of the production costs, which is a hefty sum.   

Edited November 17, 2023 by CrazyInAlabama

[rmontro]

6 hours ago, Tango64 said:

So the whole episode was a sham. I'm not naive about "reality" tv, but c'mon Gordon, that's not cool.

Makes me wonder if Chris' behavior was real or just a reenactment.  To be honest, when he was doing that dry heaving, I didn't think it sounded real.

[Tango64]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 

Once the contracts are signed then there are huge penalties for pulling out of the filming. 

 

 

Sure, but production could call it off instead of blatantly lying to viewers. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

With most shows producers won't pull out, and enforce the contract to get film for the show.    They put too much planning and money into filming, and keep to the schedule no matter what happens. 

[Tango64]

Just good to know going forward that the entire episode may be fake, even by reality tv standards. Not good for your brand, Gordon.

[KeithJ]

I honestly don't see how Tess has stayed with Chris for this long.  I don't care how stressed you are, you don't talk to anyone like that, especially people you supposedly love.  I know they sold the restaurant but he'll just find another excuse to continue the abuse.  She needs to run fast and far.

[rmontro]

23 hours ago, KeithJ said:

I honestly don't see how Tess has stayed with Chris for this long.  I don't care how stressed you are, you don't talk to anyone like that, especially people you supposedly love.  I know they sold the restaurant but he'll just find another excuse to continue the abuse.  She needs to run fast and far.

Now that we know the episode was fake, it makes me wonder if the producers wrote Chris a particularly harsh script for causing them trouble.  

[Yeah No]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:27 PM, rmontro said:

Makes me wonder if Chris' behavior was real or just a reenactment.  To be honest, when he was doing that dry heaving, I didn't think it sounded real.

I thought so too even as it was happening.  I went back to look at it again and I think they sometimes edited that heaving sound into the video.  In some of those scenes his back is to the camera when he's muttering and cursing and on second look it doesn't look like he's actually talking in those scenes.  In some of them I can even see that his mouth isn't moving.

I'm wondering if much of the abuse we saw aimed at Tess was fake too.  Some of that may have been based in reality but maybe not as bad as it was made to look.  Both Chris and Tess's tears and emotionality seemed genuine though, which is interesting.  I think some of that was based in reality, just not present reality.

I was carping on episodes weeks ago about the obviously fake bravado of one of the chefs and those two social media guys acting like Jersey Shore wannabes seemed fake to me too.  So this doesn't surprise me at all and it's one reason I've been saying that this show needs to get with the times and cut out the fakery.  This crap may have worked over a decade ago but now not so much.  People know too much now and word gets out despite NDAs. 

Gordon's criticism of the food had to be fake too.  To get a 4.3 on Yelp you basically have to have excellent food.  And Gordon saying he'd never been in a kitchen as toxic as that was untrue.  What about Burger Kitchen or Amy's Baking Co., LOL?  Two I'll never forget.  Makes me wonder just how fake those were too.

It looks to me like the new owners were willing to wait for Gordon's visit to be over to take over the restaurant because they knew they were getting a free makeover. 

[seacliffsal]

Just watched the El Cantito episode and I feel like these owners will take to heart the advice from Gordon so hopefully they will be successful.  But, it is another cautionary episode about people opening restaurants with no practical experience or knowledge.  Their idea to open a restaurant because their mother was a good cook just isn't enough.  I guess Gordon assumes everyone watched "Next Level Chef" to the point that his secret guest had to wear a disguise?  Okay...

[Madding crowd]

I thought these owners wanted Gordon to pay for the broken AC, broken salad drawer, refrigerator etc, so they made up the burned out chef story. He sure seemed fine after everything was working well. I’m beginning to wonder if anything is real on this show.

[Drogo]

4 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I guess Gordon assumes everyone watched "Next Level Chef" to the point that his secret guest had to wear a disguise?  Okay...

I originally thought he said Mexico Chef and I was very confused why he was bringing the star of Mexico Chef to this Puerto Rican restaurant. 

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought these owners wanted Gordon to pay for the broken AC, broken salad drawer, refrigerator etc, so they made up the burned out chef story.

*pulls furniture away from walls *
* applies for Kitchen Nightmares *
 

”Nailed it.”

[Kenzie]

I wish Gordon had addressed the cook constantly wiping his sweaty, greasy, bald head with his sleeve.

Ugh. 

[Tango64]

Ho hum. Same formula, scene by scene. Same unanswered questions, same superficial fixes, same suspicions about fakery.

GR: "What you're lacking... (dramatic pause)...is love." 🙄

[rmontro]

10 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I guess Gordon assumes everyone watched "Next Level Chef" to the point that his secret guest had to wear a disguise?  Okay...

Lol, I was thinking the same thing.  I had no idea who Omi (?) was and I still don't.  The owners acted like Paul McCartney had just stepped into their kitchen.

[jcbrown]

I even watched that show and I only vaguely remember her and could not have picked her out of a lineup, with or without disguise.

14 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

  I guess Gordon assumes everyone watched "Next Level Chef" to the point that his secret guest had to wear a disguise?  Okay...

 

[KeithJ]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:12 AM, seacliffsal said:

Just watched the El Cantito episode and I feel like these owners will take to heart the advice from Gordon so hopefully they will be successful.

Thinking about this though, exactly what advice did he give them besides a pep talk?

[Yeah No]

Hah, I thought this restaurant looked familiar in the previews!  It's across the street from Carlo's, one of my favorite red sauce restaurants of all time which I have a very long history with going back decades.  Speaking of fakery, all the intro scenes of Yonkers were of the downtown area, but this restaurant is in a suburban neighborhood on Central Park Avenue closer to Bronxville and Scarsdale!  If you noticed, they didn't show much of the area right around the restaurant.  That's because it's in a strip mall on an access road where the main road goes into a small tunnel under Tuckahoe road.

I think the owners were out of their depth for sure, but I did feel sorry for them because of the bad timing when they opened the restaurant.  I'm sure that started them off on the wrong foot.  The thing is that the show only glossed over that and didn't drive home how much that hurt them. 

I didn't feel that there was as much fakery in this episode as in others, but the show glosses over so much and leaves the audience feeling like nothing really happened except Gordon coming in, criticizing everything, giving them a new menu and a makeover and that's it.  You don't get the feeling he spends any more time with them than what we see on the show.  It's very unsatisfying, especially after watching "Restaurant Impossible" for many years.  At least Robert Irvine made an effort to address the real issues in the restaurants and between the staff members.  That show wasn't perfect either but it seemed to accomplish more than this show does. 

[rmontro]

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

the show glosses over so much and leaves the audience feeling like nothing really happened except Gordon coming in, criticizing everything, giving them a new menu and a makeover and that's it. 

I'm always thinking about menu size when I go out, thanks to this show.  One restaurant I know has this huge menu.  I always think first thing Gordon would do is cut it down.  Thing is, IMO the food is very good.  Gordon would probably be picking through it, spitting it out, and sending it back though lol.  They are on the slow side though, so they probably could benefit from streamlining it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I swear I remember it being longer than a week in the series before this “return”-am I mistaken??

I know he spent more time in the UK series. Like in “The Curry Lounge” Gordon went shopping with the head chef to get the meat, fresh ingredients. Cooked with the team. Wanted to slap the owner upside the head; got the opinions of the customers. 

Does Gordon have money to throw away burn or something?

And oh @seacliffsal-AGAIN you forgot to mention Gordon’s cutting skillz with the chicken!  While it was only like a minute, I had a stoopid smile on my face!

I think I would rather Gordon just do this show in the UK! But only if it’s like the original!

[seacliffsal]

20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

And oh @seacliffsal-AGAIN you forgot to mention Gordon’s cutting skillz with the chicken!  While it was only like a minute, I had a stoopid smile on my face!

I think I would rather Gordon just do this show in the UK! But only if it’s like the original!

The only meager and totally non-justifiable excuse that I can offer up for not including the fact that Gordon did, indeed, show some of his unbelievably amazing skills is that I was getting ready to leave town for Thanksgiving and my birthday (yes, I was actually born on Thanksgiving Day so my birthday has always been celebrated with Thanksgiving).  I know it's not much of an excuse, but it's the only one I have...

[GHScorpiosRule]

56 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

The only meager and totally non-justifiable excuse that I can offer up for not including the fact that Gordon did, indeed, show some of his unbelievably amazing skills is that I was getting ready to leave town for Thanksgiving and my birthday (yes, I was actually born on Thanksgiving Day so my birthday has always been celebrated with Thanksgiving).  I know it's not much of an excuse, but it's the only one I have...

Birthday and holiday reason allowed.😉

[seacliffsal]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Birthday and holiday reason allowed.😉

Thanks, I appreciate that-but, I have to admit that there really isn't a reason good enough to not acknowledge Gordon showing his skills...

[KeithJ]

Here's a some interesting info about the show:

https://www.mashed.com/1453833/gordon-ramsay-kitchen-nightmares-lawsuit/

[Cineaste]

South Brooklyn Foundry- honestly, I was too distracted by the tragedy on that woman's head to pay much attention to anything that was going on.

It did seem like a repeat of last week, where the hard-working woman gets treated like crap from an ill-tempered man

[rmontro]

It's hard to believe they would choose this restaurant for an episode when the people running it didn't even agree about bringing Gordon in to help.  I got the feeling Gordon was really trying to push Sam into getting into an argument with him, but he just wasn't having it.  Didn't seem like he cared enough to argue.  Him leaving was a great step, because that's what prompted the show to bring in all the professional help, and that made a huge difference.

Sam returning at the end seemed like a step backward frankly, but according to the internet, the restaurant is still doing well.  So good for them, I hope it keeps up.

[seacliffsal]

I think Gordon pushed out the wrong person.  For all of her statements about being such a good front of house person, service certainly fell apart on opening night and it can't be blamed on the back of house as they were all from Gordon's restaurant(s).  For whatever reason, Gordon seemed really fond of Kelly.  Was Ray checked out?  Probably.  But, he also didn't want Gordon there and from what it sounded like, once he took over the bookkeeping things started getting a bit better.  I found it really telling that after Ray left, Daniel left as well-so he was loyal to Ray and not to Kelly.  Nevertheless, this seemed like a waste of Gordon's time.  I don't see anything really changing.