The Curious Case Of Natalia Grace

[Cobb Salad]

10 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

How many episodes is this? I watched Monday but last night was not able to. 

Tonight is the last episode.  I’m sure they’ll repeat it ad naseum. 

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Cobb Salad said:

Tonight is the last episode.  I’m sure they’ll repeat it ad naseum. 

Thank you. I will try to catch up tonight. Tomorrow is the Golden Bachelor wedding! lol! 

[Mswldflwr]

8 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Are people sworn in when they give a deposition? Because, if they are, I seriously hope Michael will be prosecuted for perjury for claiming that Natalia "ate her period blood" in an effort to conceal having a menstrual cycle at 8 years old. (Which, by the way, she did not have.)

 

Yes, they are sworn in for depositions.  I am a court reporter and I swear every witness before they say a word at deposition.  And they are advised that deposition testimony is the same as if they were in front of a judge and jury.  If at any time their testimony differs once they get to trial, that testimony can be used to impeach them.  

I realize that they've "proven" she is young.  But six just really seems extremely young.  There was a home video that Kristine took of Natalia reading the Bible  out loud and she was very articulate when reading aloud.  No six-year-old had reading skills that badass.   And she was supposedly 9 when they dumped her in that first apartment?  She was successful at living alone whereas I wouldn't think a 9-year-old would even make it through a night or two without completely wigging.

 

[Straycat80]

4 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

How many episodes is this? I watched Monday but last night was not able to. 

It’s suppose to be over three nights. I think the episodes are two hours apiece, so six episodes all together. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I’m taping it. 

[babyhouseman]

And the naked pervert at the apartments. Luckily, he didn't touch her. 

Natalia putting thumbtacks on the stairs? With her hands and poor mobility, she could do that?

 

[SoMuchTV]

39 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

It’s suppose to be over three nights. I think the episodes are two hours apiece, so six episodes all together. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I’m taping it. 

I’ve been watching on MAX, and it seems to be two 1-hour episodes per day over three days (one day to go, at this point). I also have it set to record on YouTubeTV, and I’m seeing a mix of 1-hour and 2-hour episodes, some of which seem to be different versions or combinations of the same thing. Haven’t actually tried to watch any of those, since MAX seems more straightforward. 

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I’ve been watching on MAX, and it seems to be two 1-hour episodes per day over three days (one day to go, at this point). I also have it set to record on YouTubeTV, and I’m seeing a mix of 1-hour and 2-hour episodes, some of which seem to be different versions or combinations of the same thing. Haven’t actually tried to watch any of those, since MAX seems more straightforward. 

While the case is fascinating, it does seem to be too many hours. 

[kwnyc]

How long before Michael is hustling personal messages on Cameo. He's one of the creepiest people ever.

I also think he will even end up in jail for some kind of embezzlement or another grift.

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, monagatuna said:

And should any of this new information reach the level of legal evidentiary support (provided it meets the chain of custody standards and is verified), yes, Michael can be retried on it. He's a dumbass but he's right that he can't be retried on the previous evidence, but if there's new evidence, he can be charged on that, and so can Kristine. And if the new evidence sheds a different light on the old evidence from the first trial, it can be reintroduced into a new trial. 

I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the last time Michael sees the inside of a courtroom. I have a feeling his theatrics will be tempered a bit the second time around. We can hope, anyway.

I just keep wondering what his lawyer's days must be like, how many times he's quietly, or not so quietly, muttering to himself, "Please stop talking, for the love of all that is good, please stop talking." 

I was thinking about this with the whole thing of Kristine hoping to make something out of Natalia as a means for her to get more media attention and glory...so...basically, her behavior with Natalia here is...not Munchausen by proxy, exactly, because she wasn't actively trying to make her sick and get sympathy points for it, but it's something close enough to it. She wanted to use Natalia's disability to get media attention and fame. Which is just...horrifying on so many levels. 

[babyhouseman]

Natalia has the same kind of dwarfism as Matt Roloff of the Little People, Big World tv show. He's 62 and uses crutches and scooters.

[Superb Owl]

On 1/3/2024 at 7:50 AM, TattleTeeny said:

What really pisses me off is that it seems like a decent amount of people are blindly believing reports of pubic hair and periods and various other things. These people documented so many other random things (that didn't necessarily put a remotely positive light onto them) -- like Natalia facing a wall...like Kristine scolding her...like Natalia pouring Windex (or whatever it was) into a coffee cup (which, [1] who the holy fuck wouldn't smell that before taking a sip, and [2] if you saw her pour it, why would you then drink it and then need poison control?)...like the family sitting around on the sidewalk (?)... . So why is there no documentation of pubic hair and/or periods? (I get that this would not be what normal people would photograph/video, but these have proven to be abnormal people -- and that is being kind). 

 

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing about lack of documentation (including all you said and more....how about the supposed feces on the car window?) considering the amount of random stuff they *did* record. And also...if your 6-year-old child had publc hair and then started having periods, would you NOT take her to the doctor toot suite? Yes, it's not completely unheard of, but it's certainly unusual enough to get her checked out. But they were just like "huh, that's weird, oh well"

Did they take her to a doctor/pediatrician at all? doesn't sound like it. But then again, it was driving me nuts during Season I when they never talked about taking her to the dentist, who could also give an estimate of her age. But then it turned out they DID, and then just blatantly lied about what was said.

Every episode of this blows my mind a little more. What evil, foul, malicious people the Barnetts are. 

Edited January 4 by Superb Owl
Pubic, not public, LOL

[Superb Owl]

Oh, and another thing I was wondering...I think it was the last episode of Season 1....when Jacob (oldest son) declared he was done with his interview, but forgot to take his mic off...and then proceeded to go upstairs and have a conversation with daddy dearest about "I didn't say anything about 'falling down the stairs" like you told me, then they both repeated the"falling down the stairs" line a number of times before Jacob realized he was still mic'd. But there was no follow-up to that! Who fell down the stairs (I imagine Natalia, but what was the story? )God, what shitty people.

I do feel sorry for Jacob. From outgoing child prodigy to just being this repressed, affectless shell of a person. And so vulnerable to brainwashing from both parents.So very sad. 

 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

There was a home video that Kristine took of Natalia reading the Bible  out loud and she was very articulate when reading aloud.  No six-year-old had reading skills that badass. 

No, but a six-year old can memorize a passage through rote repetition and be recorded looking like she is reading...

Quote

I do feel sorry for Jacob. From outgoing child prodigy to just being this repressed, affectless shell of a person. And so vulnerable to brainwashing from both parents.So very sad. 

What is that pink, cinder-block prison of a room that he is recorded in?

Quote

Natalia has the same kind of dwarfism as Matt Roloff of the Little People, Big World tv show. He's 62 and uses crutches and scooters.

Natalia's mobility might be better if she had gotten appropriate care, including surgeries, for her form of dwarfism.

[ShowsILoveToHate]

I just finished watching the last episode of “ Natalia Speaks”. I’m not even ready to comment on that! 
 

I just wanted to comment about where Jacob was being interviewed. He was in the basement of Michael’s “house”. It was mentioned in the first season.  I think it’s his rental home or something. 

Edited January 4 by ShowsILoveToHate

[Straycat80]

Michael had control over that whole face to face with Natalia. What an overacting douche, he made everything about him and blamed Kristine for everything. I’m glad the legal expert was explaining how he was lying. And he wasn’t sorry, he was relieved he got away with contributing to the abuse of a child. I’m glad they went through all the stuff like what Jacob, the psychiatric people, and the guy in the wheelchair said about Natalia (lies/misunderstandings).
I would not have forgiven Michael.

But, geez, the very end! This is not the end of Natalia’s story! Looks like more drama ahead! 

[Superb Owl]

11 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

What is that pink, cinder-block prison of a room that he is recorded in?

It's his basement room, he lives there. it was mentioned in Season 1.

Very weird, since it appears to be a fairly good-size house from the exterior shots, so I'm sure it has more than one bedroom. Which reminds me of Michael crying (of course) in S1, E1, that he "has nothing" and I think he specifically mentioned not having a house and a car. But he has a big house (probably a rental, but who the bleep knows), a yellow Corvette sitting out front that's "broken", but also has what looks like a late-model white sports car that he drove to the trial and to the meeting with Natalia (and away from, as we all witnessed the temper tantrum). I guess he hides that somewhere? What a douche. 

 

Edited January 4 by Superb Owl
clarity

[renatae]

On 1/2/2024 at 8:07 AM, rlc said:

All I want to know is why the Barnetts adopted Natalia in the first place, and to what end was the purpose of the re-aging scheme? I'm assuming I'll watch hours upon hours of this series and still not get any answer, but just become angrier and angrier about Michael's histrionics and the cruelty of this (former) couple. But I will watch...

 

I think what I am getting is that Kristine wanted to prove that she could turn any child into a genius like Jacob. They said at the time that she was writing a book about Jacob.

It seems Natalia, being just an average child with expensive medical needs, became an albatross to them.

As for Michael - what a ham! He's convinced he's a great actor and he's sure he's fooling everyone. If his mouth is moving, he's lying. Stop playing the victim, Michael!

I've been fooled before by people who proclaim their innocence, but Michael and his dramatics don't faze me one bit.

[renatae]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:04 AM, rlc said:

Right, but wouldn't presenting her at her actual age make more sense in that scenario?

I think they started that after she realized Natalia wasn't a good candidate for her scheme and they just didn't want to deal with her any more.

ETA: Sorry about re-addressing issues already answered. I should have read through all the posts first!

Edited January 4 by renatae

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Superb Owl said:

Oh, and another thing I was wondering...I think it was the last episode of Season 1....when Jacob (oldest son) declared he was done with his interview, but forgot to take his mic off...and then proceeded to go upstairs and have a conversation with daddy dearest about "I didn't say anything about 'falling down the stairs" like you told me, then they both repeated the"falling down the stairs" line a number of times before Jacob realized he was still mic'd. But there was no follow-up to that! Who fell down the stairs (I imagine Natalia, but what was the story? )God, what shitty people.

I do feel sorry for Jacob. From outgoing child prodigy to just being this repressed, affectless shell of a person. And so vulnerable to brainwashing from both parents.So very sad. 

I liked how they called back to that hot mic moment in tonight's episode, with Michael acting like he didn't know about some of the stuff Natalia went through in the home, and then...cue roll tape of hot mic moment from the first documentary. 

I remember thinking how very nervous and jittery and haunted and tense Jacob looked in the first documentary. I feel like there is a LOT more about the abuse Natalia suffered in that home, and Jacob being witness to it or being made to participate in it, that wasn't revealed here. 

(And on that note, well, they finally acknowledged the lingering theory I'd had, about Michael abusing Natalia, even if only briefly. He can deny it all he wants, but I have no doubt whatsoever that there's some truth to those accusations. I think that definitely explains some of Kristine's abuse of her, too - a sick, twisted jealousy of sorts that Michael's focus would be more on Natalia than her.

(I also think Michael abusing her would explain a large part of why they were so determined to insist she was actually an adult - potential way to skirt any charges of abuse of a minor. Which just adds a whole other stomach-churning level to this crazy saga.)

But yeah. I rarely ever use this term, but Michael debating Natalia about her thing of standing in their room with knives was some prime gaslighting. It was so obvious he was trying to make her question her recollection of things. Even if she was standing there with knives, I don't think it happened the way Michael and Kristine wanted to claim it did. I could totally see, for instance, Kristine putting a knife in her hand and putting her in the room, either to try and show how "psycho" she is or under the supposed guise of "protecting" the family from Michael. 

And then his whole thing of going on about how Kristine loved attention and cameras and the spotlight...I swear, my eyebrows nearly floated off my head, 'cause holy shit, is he ever one to talk about that. I have zero toubt whatsoever that Kristine was as horrific as Michael described her to be, if only because there's plenty of evidence to further back up that fact, but Michael is a perfect example of every accusation being a massive case of projection. 

Also, I have never seen Monsters, Inc., and even I know his comparison between that movie and Kristine is full of shit. 

I also rolled my eyes at his supposed claim that he doesn't know anything about statue of limitations. You went to freaking court, dude. You know. Don't pull that nonsense. 

His lawyer is a piece of work, too. I get that defense lawyers have a tough job trying to come up with a good defense for their client, especially in a case like this...but to claim that Natalia needed to take responsibility for her actions was...truly something. SHE WAS A MINOR CHILD, FOR GOD'S SAKES. She was eight or nine years old when all this crap went down. The responsibility was all on the adults in her life, and they all failed her spectacularly. The reattachment disorder argument immediately came to mind for me before they even addressed it in this episode, because I've heard how it's very common for children who are abused to act out and lash out and say inappropriate things and do weird things. So yeah, I have no problem believing that happened with Natalia. 

(I agree with everyone who said that Sue was an idiot. She's blaming Natalia for the inappropriate sexual comments, and acting like she chose to spend time alone with a bunch of creepy guys who invited her into their apartments? And she's acting like Natalia was fine with it because she didn't speak up? Pray tell, you moron, who the fuck was she supposed to tell? She had no trustworthy adults in her life, that's kind of the whole point of her issues.)

That ending was certainly quite a twist, and yet, given how over the top the reverend was, I also can't exactly say I'm surprised. I wonder if they'll do any further updates on that development. 

1 hour ago, Superb Owl said:

Very weird, since it appears to be a fairly good-size house from the exterior shots, so I'm sure it has more than one bedroom. Which reminds me of Michael crying (of course) in S1, E1, that he "has nothing" and I think he specifically mentioned a house and a car. But he has a big house (probably a rental, but who the bleep knows), a yellow Corvette sitting out front that's "broken", but also has what looks like a late-model white sports car that he drove to the trial and to the meeting with Natalia (and away from, as we all witnessed the temper tantrum). I guess he hides that somewhere? What a douche. 

My mom and I commented on that, too. And of course he's showing off that sports car any chance he can get in the documentary, because he so desperately needs to try and prove something, to himself and others. He really is a piece of work. 

Just. Whew. This is one hell of a wild ride, this case. I'm exhausted. 

[renatae]

Wow, that was quite the ending! I suppose we'll have to watch another long drawn out mini series to hear the rest of the story.

I'm truly amazed that after 10 years with the Manns, now something happens that they say she has caused issues and falsely(?) accused them!

[Bearcat]

I, for one believe everyone involved in this entire situation is half nuts. Kristine, Michael and yes I don't believe we completely know Natalia's true color's. I, like others, was shocked at the end when Antwon said they were done with Natalia. I thought I was hearing things 😆. I'll be interested in hearing the details behind that statement. Maybe miss Natalia has everyone fooled. Who knows. I do believe that even Michael was manipulated by Kristine and even possibly abused by her himself. But that doesn't let him off the hook. I think Michael has some serious mental health issues and definitely Kristine has. Not to mention the toll all this entire nightmare has to have taken on Natalia.  Although as I alluded to, it's possible that Natalia has everyone fooled to some degree. We'll see. 

[Cobb Salad]

I’m skeptical about that ending - Natalia has been living with the Manns for around 10 years and now after they’ve legally adopted her there are issues and they’re done with her?  I think it’s more like the cameras stopped rolling and everyone went home so they need to get them back somehow.  I suspect Natalia has ongoing issues that need to be dealt with.  

At least this time Michael behaved well enough that we got some answers but his talking about how he was a victim, ugh.  Nice way to muddy the waters.  Then how Natalia forgave him, was that part of the script for the show?  I really wonder if she’s forgiven him.  I know in general it’s a good thing to forgive so you can move on, but here with all the abuse she suffered I just don’t know. 

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, renatae said:

Wow, that was quite the ending! I suppose we'll have to watch another long drawn out mini series to hear the rest of the story.

I'm truly amazed that after 10 years with the Manns, now something happens that they say she has caused issues and falsely(?) accused them!

I fell asleep at the end! What happened? I know they mentioned she had problems. But they are finished? 

It is obvious to me that as a child, going all the way back to the Ukraine, there was serious abuse and neglect. Everyone failed her and I don't think she got the help she needed ever. 

ETA: Okay, I read the ending. There is a part of me that wonders if this is just a way to continue these specials for money. I mean after all this time? I'm suspect. 

Edited January 4 by libgirl2

[libgirl2]

43 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

I’m skeptical about that ending - Natalia has been living with the Manns for around 10 years and now after they’ve legally adopted her there are issues and they’re done with her?  I think it’s more like the cameras stopped rolling and everyone went home so they need to get them back somehow.  I suspect Natalia has ongoing issues that need to be dealt with.  

At least this time Michael behaved well enough that we got some answers but his talking about how he was a victim, ugh.  Nice way to muddy the waters.  Then how Natalia forgave him, was that part of the script for the show?  I really wonder if she’s forgiven him.  I know in general it’s a good thing to forgive so you can move on, but here with all the abuse she suffered I just don’t know. 

Like you (and what I posted), I'm skeptical too. Money? Or maybe, doing this special brought up a lot of long repressed feelings and emotions and she is acting out? Has she ever gotten professional help and not just prayer? I don't recall it being discussed. 

Michael had moments when he was making sense and then he had to cry "woe is me". I felt bad when he was talking about not seeing his sons. 

[CraftyHazel]

28 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I fell asleep at the end! What happened? I know they mentioned she had problems. But they are finished? 

It is obvious to me that as a child, going all the way back to the Ukraine, there was serious abuse and neglect. Everyone failed her and I don't think she got the help she needed ever. 

There is a recording of her newly adoptive parents saying she’s “tweaking” and has stabbed them in the back and that they’re done with her.

I can’t say I’m completely surprised, honestly.  That young woman is incredibly damaged and needs intensive therapy, which it doesn’t appear she has had.  Her issues go back to her orphanage years, and no adoption was going to magically fix her.

I don’t know what or who to believe anymore, but I don’t think that Natalia is as sweet and innocent as she would like us all to believe.  The family before the Barnetts (can’t recall their name) accused Natalia of injuring their son’s arm.  I have no doubt whatsoever that the Barnetts abused Natalia, so let’s just not include that in the equation.  One of her new siblings said that Natalia had bit her. That child was no more than 10 years old, a full nine years younger than Natalia at the time of filming, and had been bitten recently enough to remember it.  Say it was as long as 5 years ago…that would mean that Natalia, as a teenager, was biting a kindergartener.

All this is to say, although I find the Barnetts to be truly awful people, I don’t find Natalia to be this poor, innocent child that she would like us to believe she is.  This story isn’t a simple one.

[Whimsy]

2 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

All this is to say, although I find the Barnetts to be truly awful people, I don’t find Natalia to be this poor, innocent child that she would like us to believe she is.  This story isn’t a simple one.

I don't think she is, either, BUT I think it's directly related to how she was abused all of those years.  Like others mentioned above, she needs therapy and these very religious people tend to think prayer fixes everything, which it obviously does not.  So, another way Natalia was failed.  

Why would her adopted family contact the producers unless it was to get more TV specials?  That's why I don't believe that at all and find it super suspect.  It's a family matter.  No reason to contact TV people!

[Cobb Salad]

2 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

I can’t say I’m completely surprised, honestly.  That young woman is incredibly damaged and needs intensive therapy, which it doesn’t appear she has had.  Her issues go back to her orphanage years, and no adoption was going to magically fix her.

I agree, Natalia needs a professional therapist to help her deal with what she’s been through.  Watching the segments where she goes back to her old neighborhood and sits on the swings and reminisces made me wonder if that was really a good thing to do.  When planning this show I wonder if the producers consulted with any mental health professionals about the impact this could have on her.  
 

4 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

Why would her adopted family contact the producers unless it was to get more TV specials?  That's why I don't believe that at all and find it super suspect.  It's a family matter.  No reason to contact TV people!

Yes!!!
All along I’ve felt there was something “off” about the Manns but if Natalia is happy with them what do I know.  Anyway, for them it’s been a 10 year thing so now it’s over … what’s next?  MORE drama!

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

I don’t know what or who to believe anymore, but I don’t think that Natalia is as sweet and innocent as she would like us all to believe.  The family before the Barnetts (can’t recall their name) accused Natalia of injuring their son’s arm.  I have no doubt whatsoever that the Barnetts abused Natalia, so let’s just not include that in the equation.  One of her new siblings said that Natalia had bit her. That child was no more than 10 years old, a full nine years younger than Natalia at the time of filming, and had been bitten recently enough to remember it.  Say it was as long as 5 years ago…that would mean that Natalia, as a teenager, was biting a kindergartener.

All this is to say, although I find the Barnetts to be truly awful people, I don’t find Natalia to be this poor, innocent child that she would like us to believe she is.  This story isn’t a simple one.

Yes, I did see that part. I could see something like that if they were about the same age and Natalia wasn't a teenager, but that wasn't the case. 

I don't think Natalia is a poor and innocent child, but she was someone who was abused from the get go (probably since birth) and no amount of prayer is going to fix that. Maybe if she would have been adopted by a caring family instead of the Barnetts things would be different. 

Edited January 4 by libgirl2

[libgirl2]

17 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

All along I’ve felt there was something “off” about the Manns but if Natalia is happy with them what do I know.  Anyway, for them it’s been a 10 year thing so now it’s over … what’s next?  MORE drama!

I am not sure I felt something was off earlier but after this special, I am starting to wonder. I initially thought how good it was to be accepted into a family and finally  having some stability. 

[Quof]

30 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

It's a family matter.  No reason to contact TV people!

"But how else will we become famous and translate that into influencer status?  We would have to get jobs to support ourselves."  Every reality tv personality, ever.  

 

 

[Straycat80]

I’m side eyeing that ending. Why after ten years with the Mans, they adopt her, said she’s usually been fine with them except at first when she was a child. And six months after the adoption she ‘twerkin’, stabbing their family in the back, they’re done with her. I thought at times there was something sketchy about the Mans. 
Seems like they want to stay on TV and make more money. Fake. 
Get this young woman the help she needs and let her have a normal life away from the cameras.

[libgirl2]

10 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

I’m side eyeing that ending. Why after ten years with the Mans, they adopt her, said she’s usually been fine with them except at first when she was a child. And six months after the adoption she ‘twerkin’, stabbing their family in the back, they’re done with her. I thought at times there was something sketchy about the Mans. 
Seems like they want to stay on TV and make more money. Fake. 
Get this young woman the help she needs and let her have a normal life away from the cameras.

Everyone seems to want a Reality TV show. And TBH, they don't look like they are living in the lap of luxury (not that that stops people). 

Edited January 4 by libgirl2

[Pi237]

Forgiveness does NOT wipe away everything, Michael, you slime.  How the hell did that man find, at least, 2 decent looking women to marry/couple up with him!? He’s repugnant in every way.  And he must be on some kind of drugs. I’ve never seen someone mug so hard. He walked away, sighing in relief and strutting like his house was Clean now. Hell no, he allowed it all to happen, was instrumental in re-aging her, and he took zero responsibility. Those meetings were a total waste of time. Just this douche’s go for his Emmy reel.

I don’t know what to make of the Manns. I felt suspicious of their intentions from the beginning. Now, they’re done with Natalia, but conveniently didn’t give any details? The story of her hurting their daughter, and they denied it? Denying they told the hospital what was in the report.,,.That Kristine must have called the doctors? Please. Can one adult tell the truth just once in this story!? 

[libgirl2]

17 minutes ago, Pi237 said:

I don’t know what to make of the Manns. I felt suspicious of their intentions from the beginning. Now, they’re done with Natalia, but conveniently didn’t give any details? The story of her hurting their daughter, and they denied it? Denying they told the hospital what was in the report.,,.That Kristine must have called the doctors? Please. Can one adult tell the truth just once in this story!? 

It was odd. Where they trying to protect her at the time of the interview? Did they maybe have good intentions at that time? 

[shppr4ever]

Didn't anybody notice that with all the crying and sobbing Natalia did during the documentary, she never actually sheds a tear? She's wiping away nothing. Something is up. Maybe staged for the series?

[Whimsy]

2 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I’m side eyeing that ending. Why after ten years with the Mans, they adopt her, said she’s usually been fine with them except at first when she was a child. And six months after the adoption she ‘twerkin’, stabbing their family in the back, they’re done with her. I thought at times there was something sketchy about the Mans. 
Seems like they want to stay on TV and make more money. Fake. 
Get this young woman the help she needs and let her have a normal life away from the cameras.

Twerkin' lol.  I think they said "tweaking" but I only know that term in relation to drugs, so I don't know what they were actually trying to convey.  Honestly, they don't strike me as very educated.  The Mans' speak in a lot of hyperbole and twist a lot of common phrases into something... else. 

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

It was odd. Where they trying to protect her at the time of the interview? Did they maybe have good intentions at that time? 

I think they realized that once the adoption was done it was over.  I don't know what, if any, money they got the first time but I bet they are leveraging selling their "story" to get more. 

[Straycat80]

31 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

Twerkin' lol.  I think they said "tweaking" but I only know that term in relation to drugs, so I don't know what they were actually trying to convey.  Honestly, they don't strike me as very educated.  The Mans' speak in a lot of hyperbole and twist a lot of common phrases into something... else. 

I think they realized that once the adoption was done it was over.  I don't know what, if any, money they got the first time but I bet they are leveraging selling their "story" to get more. 

Yes, my bad spelling error lol! 
The way the Mans were speaking at the end almost sounded like they were reading from a script. 

[libgirl2]

Its interesting, I was checking comments elsewhere and as of a few days ago, she was still calling them her family. 

[kwnyc]

So many questions...

Starting with why Natalia's mother put her in an orphanage. Could she not take care of a child with a disability, or was she taken away from her mother.

It's definitely implied that there was some abuse in Ukraine, and she was also with foster families.

Then the first family that adopted her, the Ciccones, gave her the middle name of Lourdes, which is Madonna's daughter's name. I wonder if they were planning some kind of con, presenting her as a relative of Madonna.

And it seemed like they were definitely "shopping" her to Little People, and trying to make money on the deal.

I wonder if Natalia would have received the medical and emotional help she'd needed if she'd been placed with a family that understood her disability.

And the Florida adoption was definitely skeevy. I know there are a lot of under-the-radar adoptions, and undocumented exchange of kids, especially kids with disabilities. (As mentioned above, some people want to take kids as an evangelical mission.)

I do think Cristine wanted to make another "genius" and wanted to get rid of Natalia when she turned out to be of average intelligence.

I also want to know where they got all their money, for the McMansion, the driveway full of cars, and 15 TVs (and sofas!) Were they living off the proceeds of their daycare center (a non-profit), or were they mortgaged/in deep debt?

Certainly the money from the book was a big boost. But the lifestyle they aspired to, including the move of the whole family to Canada, was not sustainable on what she made with a one-time advance.

Through all of this Natalia was being abused (I believe that), neglected, left without adequate medical care and therapy. And possibly pimped out.

I hated the neighbors at the first apartment who called her evil, and beneath the exterior of Midwest Nice, were mean and suspicious. 

The re-aging was the most heinous thing. The Barnetts deliberately put Natalia out of the reach of children's services.

I'm glad she found some respite with the Mans, but clearly didn't get any further treatment, particularly with her attachment disorder (which is a real condition)

When she was finally adopted, the disorder could have kicked in. 

Tweaking could mean she's on meth (hillbilly heroin). Self-medicating.

I don't see a recovery in her future, unless she can actually find the proper medical care, and has people who will put her care over their need to make money/get on TV.

I do hope Michael ends up in jail. Kristine will probably continue to harm people.

And what's Michael doing now for money? Or is he piling up debt on his new house and latest sports car?

It's tragic.

[Cobb Salad]

@kwnyc Early in the episodes back in May they mentioned when Natalia was born the doctors in Ukraine told her mother it was better for her to give her up because of her medical condition because she never would have been able to care for her on her own.  Last night they showed her biological mother who said she wants Natalia with her.  I can’t imagine how she feels if she knows the stories about what happened with Natalia over the past 20 years.  

Good question about the Barnett’s finances, perhaps they were living above their means?  I think Michael was an assistant manager somewhere - or something like that, I don’t recall hearing that he had some high 6 figure salary.  Those comments about Kristine proclaiming that advance money was hers, who knows.  

IMO if the little people couple they interviewed were able to adopt Natalia she probably would have had a more stable upbringing, although she still had those preexisting issues from being in the orphanage in Ukraine.

[libgirl2]

5 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

IMO if the little people couple they interviewed were able to adopt Natalia she probably would have had a more stable upbringing, although she still had those preexisting issues from being in the orphanage in Ukraine.

Yes, she probably would have but maybe they would have been better equipped to deal with it. They struck me as a pretty sensible couple. 

[Hedgehog2022]

First...I have no doubt that Natalia was sexually abused as an infant in Ukraine. The orphanages in Ukraine and Russia are notorious for sex trafficking children and infants. In fact, these orphanages in Ukraine (back in the 80's/90's) and Russia (still as bad as they were in the '80's and 90's) have a reputation for sexual abuse, neglect and physical abuse of children. That photo that the producers found of Natalia as an infant in diapers lying on a table with that pervy old guy hovering over her was chilling. 

Second...it is absolutely shocking that Kristine is not in prison for her crimes against a child. She is a vile human being who exploited her austistic son for financial gain. She attempted to do the same to an orphaned severely handicapped child with dwarfism. She is a sadistic child abuser who should have been charged and tried in court. There should have been a full on investigation of her AND Michael who was a willing participant in all of these schemes and chose to turn the other way when he witnessed Natalia being beaten by Kristine. How he lives with himself after all this is beyond me. He is a vile human being also.

Third, I find it totally reprehensible that the residents of the first apartment that Kristine and Michael threw Natalia in did not call child welfare or ANY kind of local or state officials to alert them that a child had been dumped in an apartment in their complex. Instead, they accused her of being a fake...that she was really an adult. Even if that were true, wouldn't someone call the authorities or at the very least the apartment rental office manager. Unbelievable. 

Finally...Kristine is clearly a sadistic abuser. She is a dominant and Michael is a submissive. Clearly, their relationship was dysfunctional and Kristine was predatorial as well. Michael was compliant with ALL of her behaviors and he also participated in some of these heinous acts. He could possibly sue Kristine for parental alienation as she has basically absconded with his two younger sons. I don't know if she legally was able to get full custody or not but this seems illegal especially if her child abuse could be investigated fully and she could be charged. Does anybody know where she lives now? What a despicable human being she is and Michael has some serious mental health issues. His histrionics, his lies, his meltdowns, over the top behavior and emotional mood swings are really concerning. 

Don't know what happened with the family that adopted her...I wasn't too keen on the "Bishop"...he seemed to have a bit of a temper. I was cautiously optimistic about the success of this relationship between Natalia and this couple. I am by nature suspicious of people's "good" intentions so I was not surprised to hear this snippet of a phone conversation..I hope this gets explained at some point.

[libgirl2]

9 minutes ago, Hedgehog2022 said:

Third, I find it totally reprehensible that the residents of the first apartment that Kristine and Michael threw Natalia in did not call child welfare or ANY kind of local or state officials to alert them that a child had been dumped in an apartment in their complex. Instead, they accused her of being a fake...that she was really an adult. Even if that were true, wouldn't someone call the authorities or at the very least the apartment rental office manager.

And even if she were an "adult", she is a person with a disability, don't you think you would question why she was left there on her own? 

[babyhouseman]

Kristine

Above is a link to a People article saying Kristine denied the allegations on her facebook page. She also said Michael wasn't abusive and Natalia is a sociopath. Her re-aging explanation is strange: "A series of legal happenings based on Natalia’s own behaviors, statements, and much evidence led to her being re-aged at the recommendation of law enforcement," Kristine writes. "As a result she was allowed to make her own adult decisions of where to live and what to do with her life and time while living where she has."

 

[Cobb Salad]

@Hedgehog2022 I found a recent online article that mentioned Kristine lives in Florida now.  

[babyhouseman]

On 1/3/2024 at 2:13 PM, libgirl2 said:

How many episodes is this? I watched Monday but last night was not able to. 

I watched it on Discovery ID from 9 to 11 pm Monday through Wednesday. There was an aftershow with Nancy Grace and officials from the documentary.

[Hedgehog2022]

6 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

Kristine

Above is a link to a People article saying Kristine denied the allegations on her facebook page. She also said Michael wasn't abusive and Natalia is a sociopath. Her re-aging explanation is strange: "A series of legal happenings based on Natalia’s own behaviors, statements, and much evidence led to her being re-aged at the recommendation of law enforcement," Kristine writes. "As a result she was allowed to make her own adult decisions of where to live and what to do with her life and time while living where she has."

 

She's full of crap. But not untypical of an abuser...deny, deny, deny. 

7 minutes ago, Cobb Salad said:

@Hedgehog2022 I found a recent online article that mentioned Kristine lives in Florida now.  

Interesting. Don't understand how she was able to take their kids away from their father without any legal standing to do so. Maybe Florida law shields her from any kind of legal filings from the father? This all seems shady to me.

[babyhouseman]

MIchael's not innocent, but I wonder if there's parental alienation going on. In the documentary, she made him out to be dangerous, and maybe the other sons want nothing to do with him. 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Hedgehog2022 said:

Finally...Kristine is clearly a sadistic abuser. She is a dominant and Michael is a submissive. Clearly, their relationship was dysfunctional and Kristine was predatorial as well. Michael was compliant with ALL of her behaviors and he also participated in some of these heinous acts.

Yeah, they absolutely fed off each other. On the one hand, I want so desperately to know what they were like before Natalia came into their lives, how early they were giving off these "something is seriously wrong with this person" signs and vibes and how they wound up together in the first place.

On the other hand, that would mean having to potentially spend more time listening to them, or at least, listening to Michael, and...yeah, no. 

[shelley1234]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:24 AM, lkw said:

Why is ID even entertaining this girl? My opinion she is a liar, manipulative & evil... She is just wanting TV time.. And keep this stirred up.. she needs to leave this family only. And go on with their lives.. I don't understand why the father is entertaining this. If he wants this person out of his life why keep doing these stories. I'm tired of hearing that girls name.. I tried of seeing the commercial.. She needs to just go back to Ukraine and stop all this shenanigans... She is nothing but evil.. And fake.. " oh Micheal watched" no tears no nothing.. I watch Id all the time this is one time I will not be entertain by this story. 

I'd say this didn't age well, but it was just posted a couple weeks ago.  

She was a child.  She was abused and victimized.  It is Kristine and Michael who are evil and manipulative.  They deserve jail cells.  I hope that karma visits them and soon.