S02.E09: Storytelling

[AstridM]

8 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Frankly, I am happy not to have to see her constant bitchface smirk.  I used to like the actress, but her endlessly sour demeanor was irritating.  And she had no resemblance to young Nat, who I do enjoy.

They hired Juliette first, so if they had wanted the young/older versions of the character to look more alike, they should’ve hired a different younger Natalie. That said, I don’t think that matters at all in the context of the show .

[peachmangosteen]

I think all of the young and adult counterparts look similar enough most of the time. I think Sophie T. did an amazing job matching Juliette's mannerisms and speech patterns whereas I don't really see those types of similarities in any of the other pairs. Although, I thought Simone Kessell started to seem more in tune with Courtney Easton towards the end of the season. Many seem to think Lauren Ambrose is mimicking Liv Hewson really well but I don't really see it. But like I said, I honestly don't pay that much attention to Van.

[crashdown]

28 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Muddled I agree, but aren't we literally watching people make their own mystery box--not try to uncover it? They're cobbling together a folk religion out of stuff they have at their disposal and their experience/imagination and mental instability and their understanding of it changes with the circumstances and what they feel at the time. And now they're doing it all over again in middle age.

As a religion Ph.D., I should be duty-bound to find this all fascinating. But . . . yawn!

 

[WaltersHair]

Eating brains in general is not a good idea. See: Kuru, Prion disease, and Scrapie. The liver is also the organ that filters all toxins, so I wouldn't be in a hurry to eat it either.

Sometimes, knowledge can harsh your mellow.

I've never been a big Juliette Lewis fan, but thought she was great in this show. I'll miss her.

[Anela]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

And thus, the pit. Although, I love the suggestion I saw on Reddit of Ben making the pit to try to kill the girls again lol.

This cracked me up, because I could just picture it.

I saw this on reddit yesterday:

[peachmangosteen]

And to that I say: good for him lol!

[AstridM]

Definitely Team Coach Ben here!

[BitterApple]

That's hilarious!!! 😅😅😅😅

[Angeleyes]

https://people.com/jason-ritter-to-still-appear-on-wife-melanie-lynskey-s-yellowjackets-after-unaired-cameo-7504865
Apparently our suspicions that they will use the Jason Ritter footage next season has been confirmed. 
 

I’m also wondering if Juliette Lewis leaving was a preemptive cost cutting measure. I’m guessing she was probably the highest paid actor on the show. The network may have called for a cut in anticipation of the strikes and/or the show runners may have thought they had a better chance of renewal if they cut costs on their own. 

[braziliangirl]

I think it's "easier" for Coach Ben to judge and hate them because he was already pretty much checked out after losing his leg. The other ones are desperate to survive. He's not. 

Who would've thought I would ending up liking Callie? lol

The present timeline mostly seems like it's written and acted like it's a B horror movie/suspense. Or the Scream movies. 

The 90s storyline feels more like a drama series. The acting is more nuanced and a lot less comical. 

[heatherchandler]

 

On 5/26/2023 at 5:22 PM, Avabelle said:

Have the showrunners commented on whether or not it was Juliette Lewis decision to leave the show? has she commented on the exit?

I could have seen Nat dying at the end of the series but not two series into an apparent five season show. 

I’m very curious to know if she wanted out or if they wrote her out.  I kinda thought of this as “her show.”

 

On 5/26/2023 at 6:56 PM, WaltersHair said:

I screenshot this for my own amusement to make sure Natalie was seeing herself as the antler queen during her near-death episode. Glad I hung onto it.

 

This was from the first season?

 

4 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Many cultures eat brains.  In France I almost accidentally ordered brains a couple of times.  Steak and kidney pie is common in England. Granted, these organs are from animals, but I assume starving people would eat human organs if they are eating human flesh.  

Ok so I happened to have just watched a 20/20 or some special on the Andes plane crash victims.  I’ve heard the stories but I thought they just nibbled at the bodies but apparently they ate a lot.  There was absolutely nothing else to eat so I get it.

Anyway, one of the survivors said that after eating other muscle, they ate brain and the brain actually tasted good!

[blixie]

Quote

Sometimes part of growing up is realizing it's useless being jealous that you're not that person and embrace the value of what you are. But teenagers often struggle with it.

I thought the thread of jealousy was huge in this finale, particularly between Nat and Lottie. Nat is upset that everyone is buying into Lottie even though she and Travis are doing the hunting, she is jealous when Travis seems to form a bond with Lottie, she can not share. Then with the exchange of Javi, she is anointed by the Wilderness/Lottie, they will finally listen to her and she feels validation in spite of her reservations about, well, everything. But it's also the thing she can't escape after they are rescued, Joanna Robinson hypothesized that the Wilderness is like Final Destination, she could never forgive herself, for escaping death, and saving Lisa helped her get there. She showed up on the compound to stop Lottie, but she found her own redemption in saving Lisa. I think that's why Lottie is with her on the plane, she feels as if this jealousy she had for Lottie, led her to becoming the Antler Queen, let her love being the Antler Queen.

I read of lot people hated this ep but I really loved it and thought it all pretty much worked, bummer to lose Juliette, but I suspect she wanted out anyway, and maybe thats why we lost Nat v. Lisa or Walter or Jeff. No accidental non Yellowjacket exchange this time. I thought the seasons was a little messy and uneven, but still mostly entertaining, and I wonder how the writers strike will effect S3, in terms at the very least confronting some of the very valid criticisms people had this seasons pacing at the least. I hope they can tighten things up in the next batch of episodes.

Edited May 28, 2023 by blixie

[Cosmocrush]

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Ok so I happened to have just watched a 20/20 or some special on the Andes plane crash victims.  I’ve heard the stories but I thought they just nibbled at the bodies but apparently they ate a lot.  There was absolutely nothing else to eat so I get it.

But they were already dead from the crash and the cold.  Nobody killed anyone for food or even let them die.  

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

The present timeline mostly seems like it's written and acted like it's a B horror movie/suspense. Or the Scream movies. 

The 90s storyline feels more like a drama series. The acting is more nuanced and a lot less comical. 

And I think that worked in season 1 but less so this season. A lot of the present timeline was just too wacky to make sense with the drama of the '90s story. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, I binge watched season 1 and a good part of season 2, and then waited and binge watched the rest of season 2. I do notice a shift from season 1 to season 2. I'm not quite sure what the shift was, but it wasn't for the better. 

I think my biggest issue has been the present day plots. The teen flashback plots has been uneven and messy, but at least somewhat entertaining. The adult plots were mostly uninteresting for me. 

I think another issue I have is the adults doing shitty things so easily. Yes, I believe they're trying to infer that trauma sticks with you and if you don't get the help you need, it'll manifest and fester and come up eventually and blah blah blah. I think what I do NOT like about the adult plots is that they seem to be using trauma and their mental health struggles as an excuse, rather than an explanation. They will continue to have the survivors get away with doing shitty and awful things because of trauma, until the very last season. It's fine if it makes sense and they get serious help by the end, but the issue is that it's not making sense now AND it's frustrating to watch. Van/Tai call off the psych team? Misty continues to kill people, now doing it openly? Shauna going back and forth between admitting her trauma and burying it?

It kind of shows with how they wrapped up Adam Martin's murder in a neat little bow, allowing Shauna and her family to be mostly free for the next season, as well as having Walter being a murderer, allowing Misty to justify her own actions by making them a very likely serial killer couple. And they have Kevyn die, possibly so he can't look into Natalie's death, covering up yet more awful things. 

It's frustrating, because I thought the premise for the show was great and season 1 had some really great scenes, but season 2 was a total mess for me. Maybe because where they seem to be heading isn't what I personally would like, but I guess this series may not be for me, after all.

I'm not a fan of Tai's plot (I personally really am turned off by the Bad Tai stuff), and now not a fan of Van, at least the adult version. I'm not a huge fan of Lottie's wellness center plot, though I can at least see where she's coming from, and Shauna's family drama bores me. I like Jeff, not a huge fan of where their story is going. Shauna's dragging her family into her trauma, Callie's annoying, and Jeff is going to continue making stupid mistakes that get them into more trouble because of his naivety.

The adult scenes just aren't working for me. Natalie's plot all season was rough, but watchable, and now she's gone so I'm not really sure how invested I am in the adults. Even Misty's plot this season was a bit all over the place but they seemed to have found her path by the end with Walter. I just don't trust Walter and don't like him all that much.

The teens plot works better for me. It may not be perfect, but it has some good moments. I love teen Nat, though, which helps, and I'm on Team Coach Ben on burning down the cabin. Teen Van is interesting, and I can certainly see her being worse than expected, which leads to her adult self, but I just don't like her adult self much after this finale. And I like all the other teens, or at least know why they've done some of the things they're doing (besides them jumping right into hunting and killing their friends. I get they're hungry and all, but happily hunting their friends is what pushes it over the edge).

I do think I understand where the show is TRYING to go with its themes and its messages. I just don't necessarily think they're doing a good job at getting there and explaining it. Plus, they keep dropping plots and I'm not sure whether they'll ever get back to them or they're dropped for good.

And, overall, not a huge fan of the tease on "supernatural or trauma" theme they're exploring. It's most likely trauma, but they keep leaving the door open to "what if it's supernatural" and that's not the show I signed up for.

[sistermagpie]

57 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And, overall, not a huge fan of the tease on "supernatural or trauma" theme they're exploring. It's most likely trauma, but they keep leaving the door open to "what if it's supernatural" and that's not the show I signed up for.

This, to me, is where the show is most interesting, but I agree the way the adult plotlines play out it really undermines it. In the 90s it makes sense and I like watching them genuinely get into it, but in the present it just often doesn't seem like they're being motivated by it. "It "*doesn't* seem present--I think that's the key thing that's missing. In the first season I think it did much more. Maybe the handling of the Adam storyline is most to blame for it, because how can you feel darkness at work when the police investigation is played for comedy--and not even particularly dark comedy? And even Lottie's compound didn't really seem connected. Yes, her taking everyone's wallets obviously made her seem like a charlatan, but there was no sense that she was unwittingly feeding the forest god with it. It was more like she really was just doing a ditzy cult and the darker aspects were just there because we expect that from cult leaders these days. At worst she was...a bit of a Karen.

Re: Coach Ben, I can't really understand supporting him even in a meta way--like where you hate all the fictional characters so you like anybody who's going to take them out. The guy's mostly been characterized as driven by mild cowardice and inaction. He's the only adult in the group and while he certainly had reasons to not be able to take control early on, his choice at every turn has just been to turn away and hide and then act superior. 

It makes sense he'd follow Javi the child's lead now (just like he and Javi were the two people who didn't support Shauna during childbirth), but on a folktale level, it seems like he shouldn't be able to find shelter like the actual child did. Javi took a risk by trying to save Natalie and so died heroically. Ben just chose Nat to come with him to hide--more like Jackie pulling Shauna out of the plan--and accepted her telling him he was a good person.

[Lady Calypso]

23 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Re: Coach Ben, I can't really understand supporting him even in a meta way--like where you hate all the fictional characters so you like anybody who's going to take them out. The guy's mostly been characterized as driven by mild cowardice and inaction. He's the only adult in the group and while he certainly had reasons to not be able to take control early on, his choice at every turn has just been to turn away and hide and then act superior. 

Obviously, we know the outcome, roughly, on what'll happen so we know whatever Ben does, he won't succeed. But, I get his logic and totally get why he feels the need to burn down the cabin. Of course he's a coward, of course he hasn't been the adult and left these teens get to this point. He could have been a leader but he's cowered away time and time again, leaving them vulnerable to their own trauma. 

But in terms of Ben burning down the cabin, I think we know as well as he does that it's only a matter of time before he's next. With what he saw of Natalie being crowned the new leader, I think that was Ben's last hope of maybe making it out alive. At this point, he has established that he doesn't want to die (or CAN'T do it on his own) but he also has the inability to fight back and save himself. So, in his mind, he may think he's doing the best thing to save himself, or maybe just stopping them because he thinks they're far past the line. He's been disturbed by their actions all season, so it's no wonder he got to this point.

And, in terms of his reasons, he isn't wrong. They WILL kill him and with his disability, he will not be able to get away from them. So, he thinks he's doing the one thing that will not end in his death. Although, how long could he really survive out there on his own?

I don't think ANY of the survivors are good people, not by a long shot. They're all traumatized and have handled it in bad ways. And it's unlikely Ben even makes it to the rescue point in the timeline, so he's going to fail, anyway. I just can see from his perspective why he believed burning down the cabin would be the best plan. He's not exactly thinking clearly (as are none of the teens) so I see why he thinks it's his only chance. 

In terms of burning down the cabin, I figured they would get rid of their only safety net eventually because it makes for a more compelling story to continue exploring. I like that it pushes them ALL out of their element. 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

And I think that worked in season 1 but less so this season. A lot of the present timeline was just too wacky to make sense with the drama of the '90s story. 

I agree. I think S1 did a brilliant job of using levity in the adult timeline ("There's no book club?!!!) to balance out the sadness and gravity in the teen timeline. Like you just stated, they fell off the wagon by turning Adam's murder into a wacky cop caper. I'm reminded of an interview George R.R. Martin did where he talked about ending GOT. He said in any story there's only so many logical possibilities. Some people are going to guess it, but that doesn't mean you change your plan because it all has to make sense. That's where S2 Yellowjackets has gone wrong. We have characters doing dumb things nobody would do in the real world because the plot needs to go from A to B and the writers can't figure out how to get there 

Examples:

Kevyn, a law enforcement officer, accepting a drink from a stranger on a weird cult compound

The ladies feeding into Lottie's triggers by staging a hunt, and Misty Quigley, medical professional, not stepping in to say, hell no, this is not how you handle someone in the midst of a mental breakdown. 

Tai going AWOL despite having a wife in the hospital whose doctors probably need to reach her. 

The fact that an autopsy on Kevyn will reveal his cause of death was phenobarbital poisoning and not gunshot wounds. 

Despite my bitching, I still love the show and think it's salvageable. They just really need to figure out a clear direction for the adults and stick with it. 

[BingeyKohan]

36 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Yes, her taking everyone's wallets obviously made her seem like a charlatan, but there was no sense that she was unwittingly feeding the forest god with it. It was more like she really was just doing a ditzy cult and the darker aspects were just there because we expect that from cult leaders these days. At worst she was...a bit of a Karen.

So many missed opportunities with the way they positioned Lottie and the compound - with Nat's cutting remark about her wearing Rolexes and her showing disdain for the way her smoothie was prepared that one time -- if that's how they wanted us to see her they could/should have leaned more into how she got addicted to luxury. That isn't particularly interesting to me but they seemed unable to commit to it which is part of the problem around the character -- lack of writing commitment one way or another. Imagine if she were just using all the proceeds from the compound to fund some artifact collector zeal, like she had this side hustle/obsession with collecting artifacts and talismans from other tribes who'd done human sacrifice and had strange spiritual rituals. That would be interesting in a way that still shaded her character and left room for possibility she's not 'evil' but also still tethered to the wilderness and the way of life they made. When I heard rumors of the season ending with something burning down I actually hoped it was that compound so we never had to see it again. 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, BingeyKohan said:

So many missed opportunities with the way they positioned Lottie and the compound - with Nat's cutting remark about her wearing Rolexes and her showing disdain for the way her smoothie was prepared that one time -- if that's how they wanted us to see her they could/should have leaned more into how she got addicted to luxury. 

Yes! Especially because she doesn't really seem addicted to luxury, besides the Rolex Nat pointed out and the fact that she seems to change shift/cover up a few times a day--but those don't look designer either. (Someone suggested her liking to change clothes so often came from them being trapped in the clothes on their backs for a year now.) 

It seems more like what they were going for was her clinging to the idea she'd been delusional and wanting to help other people break free of their delusions, only for her own original beliefs to come back. But her compound's beliefs seem so scattered that it's hard to see what she's doing there besides generic new agey stuff. It would have worked better maybe if it was more recognizable as the anti-forest cult, as if she'd recreated it in a benign form, or just erased it and only later started to see darker interpretations.

Or even maybe make her a psychiatrist since she originally seemed to believe western medicine cured her!

18 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

But in terms of Ben burning down the cabin, I think we know as well as he does that it's only a matter of time before he's next. With what he saw of Natalie being crowned the new leader, I think that was Ben's last hope of maybe making it out alive. At this point, he has established that he doesn't want to die (or CAN'T do it on his own) but he also has the inability to fight back and save himself. So, in his mind, he may think he's doing the best thing to save himself, or maybe just stopping them because he thinks they're far past the line. He's been disturbed by their actions all season, so it's no wonder he got to this point.

And, in terms of his reasons, he isn't wrong. They WILL kill him and with his disability, he will not be able to get away from them. So, he thinks he's doing the one thing that will not end in his death. Although, how long could he really survive out there on his own?

To be fair, they chose cards without him, so his specific fears that he'll be killed because of his disability are more his own than the way he's been treated. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

To me it seems like since the past storyline leans into folklore type storytelling, he's just got to try to follow Javi's lead and be seemingly rejected by that shelter because he's not a child. 

And because he's rejected what his own flashbacks seem to be telling him, imo. Paul broke up with him because he didn't want to hide. He threw him out of his VHS flashback because he was using them to hide. That doesn't sound like a guy telling him to commit suicide or find someplace else to hide. It sounds like a guy telling him to do his part in the community, not just protect himself. 

[peachmangosteen]

If I accept that the girls are gleefully hunting and murdering each other because they’re hungry then I accept that Ben thought killing them was his only hope of survival. Plus, I’m sorry, but Ben burning down the cabin was just funny to me.

I’ve been thinking about how I kinda got the sense the writers probably weren’t actually that great after season 1. The showrunners claiming they didn’t expect people to look at Jackie’s diary made it obvious they are deeply naive and/or liars. Then after the finale, 1 showrunner was saying the dream was Jackie’s and the other was saying it was Shauna’s. Bit of a red flag lol. And now with this season I think it’s pretty clear they really don’t have a plan or even a clear idea of what the show is supposed to be.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

If I accept that the girls are gleefully hunting and murdering each other because they’re hungry then I accept that Ben thought killing them was his only hope of survival. Plus, I’m sorry, but Ben burning down the cabin was just funny to me.

 

But to be fair, the girls hunting and killing each other for survival is one of the things whose logic has been explained, whether or not we accept it. Ben thinking he needs to kill them all for his own survival isn't in the text at all. In fact, it makes more sense as part of an overall suicide attempt on his part.

[peachmangosteen]

It makes sense to me. He’s seen them eat 2 people, which was clearly horrifying to him (something I can get more than all the girls/Travis just being OK with it immediately). He didn’t have the full story on Javi so he probably assumes they killed him because he’s the weakest. Ben has absolutely no chance of fighting back against them. So he can either let himself get killed and eaten by them or he can get rid of them and try to get himself out. Which is a long shot but I can get him choosing to not be killed and eaten by a bunch of teenagers he clearly hates lol.

[peachmangosteen]

I also don’t think he went back to the cabin with the intention to kill them all. But once he saw even Natalie, the only one he liked, just devolving into this he knew there was no hope left and thought ‘you know what, fuck them kids,’ lol.

[Anela]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

It makes sense to me. He’s seen them eat 2 people, which was clearly horrifying to him (something I can get more than all the girls/Travis just being OK with it immediately). He didn’t have the full story on Javi so he probably assumes they killed him because he’s the weakest. Ben has absolutely no chance of fighting back against them. So he can either let himself get killed and eaten by them or he can get rid of them and try to get himself out. Which is a long shot but I can get him choosing to not be killed and eaten by a bunch of teenagers he clearly hates lol.

It makes sense to me, too. He came back from finding the hiding place, to see Javi chopped up, and blood all over the snow. They stopped respecting him as an authority figure, months before, so I'm not sure what he's supposed to do. 

I was listening to the show about the team that crashed in the Andes, and they didn't murder each other. They ate dead bodies, but one said the rescue team was afraid of them. 

[sistermagpie]

49 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

It makes sense to me. He’s seen them eat 2 people, which was clearly horrifying to him (something I can get more than all the girls/Travis just being OK with it immediately). He didn’t have the full story on Javi so he probably assumes they killed him because he’s the weakest. Ben has absolutely no chance of fighting back against them. So he can either let himself get killed and eaten by them or he can get rid of them and try to get himself out. Which is a long shot but I can get him choosing to not be killed and eaten by a bunch of teenagers he clearly hates lol.

Sure that story makes sense, but it's just projected onto him and has nothing to do with his whole arc during the season. The team are the ones keeping him alive and one of them even keeps him from killing himself. He has a whole arc that's about being depressed and hiding in fantasies of living life with Paul, who then tells him he's not there to help him hide. Then he decides to hide where the child told him to and hide like he wanted to. He's been the weakest the whole time, but there's no moment of him seeing himself that way and so thinking they're after him. Natalie even tells him she let Javi die in her place so there's even less reason to think this was about him being the weakest. 

He can fear and hate them without thinking he's letting himself get killed and eaten by them if he doesn't kill them.

36 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I also don’t think he went back to the cabin with the intention to kill them all. But once he saw even Natalie, the only one he liked, just devolving into this he knew there was no hope left and thought ‘you know what, fuck them kids,’ lol.

He's been "fuck them kids" practically before they left NJ. They didn't even include him in their draw the first time. But he failed to kill them, so now they might be ready to say "fuck him" too. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by sistermagpie

[MBayGal]

The thing that really ruined this episode for me was the rushed Walter-saves-Shauna through some incomprehensible machinations.  He poisons Detective Botox, then tells Detective Pornstache  that he has somehow in 10 minutes created some fake bank accounts and text chains proving that Detective Botox was involved in something illegal, and if Det P doesn't go along with it, Walter will make it look like he is part of that too.  Or something like that--it made no sense to me.

Like some others here, I can accept the wilderness storyline and find it interesting, but most of the present-day plot feels arbitrary and unfocused.  I am fine with Natalie dying and hope Lottie spends the next season in the psych hospital.  Which reminds me, why did the psych team show up after Tai called and told them they were not needed after all? And why did she do that?

[Anela]

11 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

The thing that really ruined this episode for me was the rushed Walter-saves-Shauna through some incomprehensible machinations.  He poisons Detective Botox, then tells Detective Pornstache  that he has somehow in 10 minutes created some fake bank accounts and text chains proving that Detective Botox was involved in something illegal, and if Det P doesn't go along with it, Walter will make it look like he is part of that too.  Or something like that--it made no sense to me.

Like some others here, I can accept the wilderness storyline and find it interesting, but most of the present-day plot feels arbitrary and unfocused.  I am fine with Natalie dying and hope Lottie spends the next season in the psych hospital.  Which reminds me, why did the psych team show up after Tai called and told them they were not needed after all? And why did she do that?

Maybe the police called them, but I hate how help arrives when it’s too late to help someone. I also agree that as much as Lottie went off the deep end, they all need to be committed for a while. 
I don’t like the way they shoehorned Walter into it all. That made it an entirely different show. 

[jsm1125]

I’m surprised we haven’t seen a single news story or a single non-YJ person ask about Jessica Roberts’ disappearance/death. Wouldn’t reports show that she died of a lethal dose of a drug? 

[TakomaSnark]

Quote

I get his logic and totally get why he feels the need to burn down the cabin.

Eeyup. I don't blame him one bit and to be frank: Has any one of the present day characters shown themselves to be better than they were in the '90s timeline? 

[In fairness, I'm excluding Nat, because her exit seems so much the end result of BTS issues with Juliette Lewis.]

Much as I love Melanie Lynskey, she cannot redeem her character with the writing she has been given. Misty is blackly murderous comic relief. Lottie woo-woo Oprah-boosted-caliber joke. Van is a casting stunt.

Edited May 28, 2023 by TakomaSnark
Elaboration

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, MBayGal said:

The thing that really ruined this episode for me was the rushed Walter-saves-Shauna through some incomprehensible machinations.  He poisons Detective Botox, then tells Detective Pornstache  that he has somehow in 10 minutes created some fake bank accounts and text chains proving that Detective Botox was involved in something illegal, and if Det P doesn't go along with it, Walter will make it look like he is part of that too.  Or something like that--it made no sense to me.

Don't get me wrong, I found all of Walter's scenes with Jeff entertaining as hell but yea it didn't make one iota of sense. Very poorly written. Still fun to watch though lol.

Quote

 Which reminds me, why did the psych team show up after Tai called and told them they were not needed after all? And why did she do that?

Do we even know for sure the psych team came? Lottie was just in an ambulance with a paramedic, I think. Also though, that scene was hilarious. Tai pretending they're gonna go see her, like girl no you are not!

25 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Eeyup. I don't blame him one bit and to be frank: Has any one of the present day characters shown themselves to be better than they were in the '90s timeline? 

Yea, they're all bad people. I don't see Ben as any worse. And I think some of them were mostly shit even before they could use 'the trauma made me do it' to absolve everything they do.

[peachmangosteen]

This whole convo about Ben made me realize that him burning down the cabin managed to be a surprise to me yet looking back they actually set it up well.

[braziliangirl]

I think it's interesting to set up Nat as the leader and Ben trying to kill them. It's a great conflict because they like each other and I think both sides can be argued: that the girls are completely out of their minds and scary and, at the sime time, he had check out and they had to survive mostly without him.

The 90s timeline it's constructed in a way that I can see everyones sides. Did Lottie tell them to kill Javi? No. Of course, not. Was Misty right is saying she beginned all the sacrifice to the woods thing? Not entirely but she has a point. Lottie started the rituals with blood etc (I can't remember. Did Lottie tell the girl she's out of her meds? Do they know she has a psychiatric diagnoses? Not hat it would matter at this point because they are all hallucinating.)

Is Mari annoying? Yes. Do I understand she clinging to Lottie and being extremely resentful of Misty? Also, yes.

The present storyline it's a slasher movie or a parody like Scary movie. I think it's intentional (Melanie and pretty much all the acting choices of the protagonists makes me think this.) But it worked better in season 1 probably because the tone wasn't so extremely comical and the 90s wasn't so extremely dramatic).

 

 

 

[WaltersHair]

I guess it goes without saying that neither Travis nor Natalie have to draw cards in the future?

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

I can't remember. Did Lottie tell the girl she's out of her meds? Do they know she has a psychiatric diagnoses? Not hat it would matter at this point because they are all hallucinating.

Nope, she never told them.

[blixie]

My issue with the present storyline isn't tone, it's just that it was so clearly designed as wheel spinning until all these big reveals in the last three eps. I literally hate mystery box stuff especially when shows like Vampire Diaries hit with great reveals almost every episode w/o losing steam for 22 eps a seasons. I pretty much feel like everything that happened in 7,8,9 should have happened 4,5,6 in both timelines, reunite the girls, condense the Javi stuff and get us to them eating him/Ben Burning them out by 8 and IDK maybe let us know what the fuck is going on with Taissa's alternate personality, and who the fuck told Javi to not come back. Stope being withholding re: reveals, show me the money.

I am also pro wood witch with the show because I find it easier to buy both the behavior in the past and the present. I find nothing about the premise plausible w/o a supernatural element at work. 

[jsm1125]

2 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

I guess it goes without saying that neither Travis nor Natalie have to draw cards in the future?

Why would Travis be exempt from drawing cards in the future? I don’t think the others will give a single shit that his brother was the first one to be sacrificed. I could see, however, that Natalie would have “won” her round where she was “supposed” to die, so that she would be exempt

Edited May 29, 2023 by jsm1125

[BitterApple]

I'm wondering if Misty eventually rigs the draw. Assuming they have to do several more before rescue, it's crazy that neither Travis, Van, Tai, Shauna, Lottie nor Misty pulled the Queen. It would be a bit too convenient if the only ones drawing the sacrifice cards are the redshirts nobody gives a shit about. 

[peachmangosteen]

10 hours ago, blixie said:

I pretty much feel like everything that happened in 7,8,9 should have happened 4,5,6 in both timelines, reunite the girls, condense the Javi stuff and get us to them eating him/Ben Burning them out by 8 and IDK maybe let us know what the fuck is going on with Taissa's alternate personality, and who the fuck told Javi to not come back. Stope being withholding re: reveals, show me the money.

I agree with this but the showrunners want to spread this out over 5 seasons (madness!) so they can't reveal much in season 2.

10 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm wondering if Misty eventually rigs the draw. Assuming they have to do several more before rescue, it's crazy that neither Travis, Van, Tai, Shauna, Lottie nor Misty pulled the Queen. It would be a bit too convenient if the only ones drawing the sacrifice cards are the redshirts nobody gives a shit about. 

I think there's still a chance, and probably a very likely one, that some of the survivors did draw the card. There's the theory that if you get picked for death but escape it (presumably by killing someone else first) then you become the new AQ. I could see that, especially with how Natalie was marked but got out of it and is now the leader.

Quote

The present storyline it's a slasher movie or a parody like Scary movie. I think it's intentional (Melanie and pretty much all the acting choices of the protagonists makes me think this.) But it worked better in season 1 probably because the tone wasn't so extremely comical and the 90s wasn't so extremely dramatic).

If it is intentional it makes even less sense to me tbh. Like how did TPTB really think that kind of OTT tone shift would work lol?

[Lady Calypso]

I also have to point out another really bad writing moment for the show, and that's with Misty.

So, Misty claims in THIS finale that she's been keeping tabs on all the survivors. She even tells Tai that she should have asked her for Van's address, since she's known where she's lived the entire time.

Yet, in this exact same episode, maybe not even a couple of scenes later, we have Lottie admit she hasn't been in the institution in, I believe, Switzerland in over a decade? And Misty was SO surprised by that? 

Didn't she JUST say she's been keeping tabs on EVERYONE? Yet she completely lost track of Lottie the last ten_ years to where she was surprised she wasn't in Switzerland anymore?

Misty isn't dumb, so the writers intentionally made her dumb by losing track of Lottie for years. 

This is just an example of the bad writing this season, all for plot reasons, rather than it making sense for the characters.

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Yet, in this exact same episode, maybe not even a couple of scenes later, we have Lottie admit she hasn't been in the institution in, I believe, Switzerland in over a decade? And Misty was SO surprised by that? 

 

Misty had a whole scene berating herself for missing that earlier, so no, that particular moment wasn't bad writing. Misty thought she knew where Lottie was and was wrong--and shocked. 

It's also not a contradiction for Lottie to be hearing "it" in the present day while saying she doesn't hear "it" anymore in that scene in the past. She's got her reasons for saying that there, and she's got a lot of time left for things to change.

Edited May 29, 2023 by sistermagpie

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, Misty not realizing Lottie started a whole cult in New York (Is that where it is?) was weird. It's not like she was hiding out. She didn't change her name.

[Lady Calypso]

19 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Misty had a whole scene berating herself for missing that earlier, so no, that particular moment wasn't bad writing. Misty thought she knew where Lottie was and was wrong--and shocked. 

They had her acknowledge it, but I still call that bad writing because then we have to question how Misty kept tabs on people. Because missing an important detail that Lottie hasn't been in an institution for over a decade is a PRETTY big miss. It's not like it's been a couple of years. I could MAYBE understand a couple of years. But Misty likely checks in to the survivors every year or two. So that means, at minimum, she's allowed Lottie's location to be missed at least a few times.

Like I said, Misty isn't dumb. If she's checking in to where each survivor is at, it wouldn't be a brief "oh, is their name still located in this place? Yeah, ok, cool, moving on!" 

Misty's smart and very thorough. She's had specific plans on taking care of a body and the multiple steps to take after that. But she missed out on a survivor completely moving locations to New York for over a decade? Nope, not buying it. Misty, Miss Citizen Detective, didn't know Lottie's been elsewhere for over a decade? How has she been checking up on her, then? What is checking up on the survivors means?

And this problem is easily fixed. All Misty had to say was "I lost track of Lottie after she got released. I kept looking for her but couldn't find out where she went." The show went the whole "Lottie isn't where I thought she was this whole time?!?!" and that's bad writing. No way Misty is so careless in checking in on the survivors, as she's stated, that she has zero idea Lottie left ten+ years ago.

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And this problem is easily fixed. All Misty had to say was "I lost track of Lottie after she got released. I kept looking for her but couldn't find out where she went." The show went the whole "Lottie isn't where I thought she was this whole time?!?!" and that's bad writing. No way Misty is so careless in checking in on the survivors, as she's stated, that she has zero idea Lottie left ten+ years ago.

How is that in any way more acceptable than her not knowing she was released? All the things you said about Lottie here apply even more so even Misty knows she's out and about and somehow can't find her now that she's become even more public?

The hospital makes more sense because for all we know there's some reason the hospital keeps her on the books a la Angel Heart if you've ever seen that movie. That would just be a case of checking one place and getting the answer she expects.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

How is that in any way more acceptable than her not knowing she was released? All the things you said about Lottie here apply even more so even Misty knows she's out and about and somehow can't find her now that she's become even more public?

The hospital makes more sense because for all we know there's some reason the hospital keeps her on the books a la Angel Heart if you've ever seen that movie. That would just be a case of checking one place and getting the answer she expects.

Well, because there's a difference between knowing she's left but unable to track her whereabouts after that, and not knowing she's been released at all. 

Lottie hasn't really been public, to be fair. She has a private wellness center, and I don't think we know HOW she recruits, but it's very likely everything is off the books/off grid for her. Hence why it could be possible that Misty wouldn't know exactly where she is.

Even though Misty wouldn't be able to get hospital records, it's her utter shock that Lottie even LEFT the institution, despite making it clear how she checks up on everyone, that's the issue. It doesn't make sense for Misty's characterization, someone who is SUPER thorough, to miss that Lottie hasn't been in the institution for over ten years. Because that means Misty hasn't been keeping tabs on Lottie or gave up on checking up on Lottie for almost half the time they've been back. Anyone else, I would understand, but Misty is not one to let something like this slip through her fingers.

IF we get an explanation that Lottie's been paying the institution to pretend she's still there, that's something I can buy. That's something that could make sense for me if Lottie didn't want the survivors knowing her new whereabouts and knowing she was building a wellness center. But we don't have that confirmation so it makes it seem like Misty just didn't check in with Lottie in the last decade, which goes against everything we've seen of her character, the same woman who got mad when Adam's body was found because she believed Natalie didn't dig the hole deep enough.

[snickers]

Do we know for sure Sammy is with Simone’s parents? I should re-watch, but at this point I’m only interested in rewatching season 1

at least it’s confirmed the cabin daddy storyline hasn’t been dropped, they better show us how he fits into all of this 

I have a feeling the Jessica Roberts/Adam Martin stuff is not dropped, I think another detective will come in and start looking at the YJs but be more discreet, like someone mentioned autopsies, and when both the Roberts and Tan ones come back, the cases will be reopened 

I never understood the point of the Adam storyline, even in season 1, I couldn’t believe Shauna killed him, and I refuse to believe the citizen detective can outsmart the cops, if the writers go down that path it just gives that movement a platform 

i am hoping for season 3, the writers go back to dropped storylines, Sammy/Simone/Steve the dog/cabin daddy/crystals body/the man with no eyes/and Tai and her vision of wolves back in season 1

But I did call it on Jeff trying to take the fall for Shauna, I knew he’d do that and to be honest, that would have been a more compelling storyline, to have him on trail and have Walter/misty either plant evidence or give fake evidence to give to Jeff’s court appointed attorney (unless Tai paid for one) to use in court to plant doubt to the jury and have jeff be found not guilty! That would have been way better.

I do wonder when this show finally winds down, if misty will finally confess about the black box, I think when that happens, one the YJs will kill her-

kudos to those who said coach Ben would bounce back, but I think for sure next season he either dies or has to share the cave because you know they are gonna take that cave

maybe next season the group finally splits up, one takes the cave/another finds some other type of shelter 

 

[peachmangosteen]

15 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Lottie hasn't really been public, to be fair. She has a private wellness center, and I don't think we know HOW she recruits, but it's very likely everything is off the books/off grid for her.

It’s not that private since they sold their jelly at the farmers market near the compound and the waitress that Misty and Walter talked to knew about them.

[sistermagpie]

11 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, because there's a difference between knowing she's left but unable to track her whereabouts after that, and not knowing she's been released at all. 

 

Yes, but the difference is that it would obviously be far easier to track her whereabouts if she knows she's out. 

Not knowing she was released just means Misty knew where she was, checked up on it periodically, and got bad information that said she was still there. That explains why she never went looking for her elsewhere. It's one glitch (or one cover up) that fooled a search that she thought would be easy so wasn't particularly on guard for being wrong.

Once she's out we're talking about someone with her own wellness center and many people finding her to be there. They have a business where they sell honey. As you mentioned, she's using her own name. Misty would be far more diligent about tracking her once she's out than if she gets easy confirmation she's still in.

13 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Even though Misty wouldn't be able to get hospital records, it's her utter shock that Lottie even LEFT the institution, despite making it clear how she checks up on everyone, that's the issue. It doesn't make sense for Misty's characterization, someone who is SUPER thorough, to miss that Lottie hasn't been in the institution for over ten years. Because that means Misty hasn't been keeping tabs on Lottie or gave up on checking up on Lottie for almost half the time they've been back. Anyone else, I would understand, but Misty is not one to let something like this slip through her fingers.

 

And yet your alternative has Misty reduced to somebody who barely has basic Google skills. Her not knowing she left the institution solves so many problems you're creating by needing her to know that. It leaves the question of why she thought that, but that could be explained in several ways if they do explain it.

8 minutes ago, snickers said:

 I refuse to believe the citizen detective can outsmart the cops, if the writers go down that path it just gives that movement a platform 

 

Why not? Police have a terrible record of solving murders. It's not uncommon when you're reading a true crime story to wonder if the police are actually working with the killer. Misty's probably unlucky that she's dealing with police on TV who even when played for comedy almost always get their man.

[peachmangosteen]

20 minutes ago, snickers said:

Do we know for sure Sammy is with Simone’s parents? I should re-watch, but at this point I’m only interested in rewatching season 1

I don’t remember it being specifically mentioned. I think it’s pretty easy to fanwank that Simone’s parents have Sammy and that Tai called her assistant to look after Steve but I think showing a quick little scene of that would have been nice. Maybe cut some of the endless Adam murder investigation stuff to throw in a 30 second scene of Tai making a phone call. But they didn’t even bother to show the girls coming up with the plan to draw cards to decide which of them is killed and eaten so I’m not surprised they didn’t show that lol.

[snickers]

As others have said, Walter just can’t fabricate legit bank records, plus the autopsy 

if he had staged it to look like Kevyn committed suicide, I think that’s more believable 

if what Walter did succeeds, and those storylines truly are dropped, that’s bad writing, but I don’t think they will be because what else are they gonna fill 3 more seasons with?

Edited May 29, 2023 by snickers