S02.E09: Storytelling

[peachmangosteen]

The resolution was horrendously written but I’m not sure it’s smart to waste more time on that pointless story. But yea they gotta fill the time with something so I could see them going back there.

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don’t remember it being specifically mentioned. I think it’s pretty easy to fanwank that Simone’s parents have Sammy and that Tai called her assistant to look after Steve but I think showing a quick little scene of that would have been nice.

I could swear Tai just says something about it, probably to Van when she gets to her place. I got the idea from somewhere. No point casting parents for it, but we know Tai has an assistant who knows she's away etc.

[Lady Calypso]

17 minutes ago, snickers said:

if he had staged it to look like Kevyn committed suicide, I think that’s more believable 

It seemed like he wanted to frame Mustache Cop, to get him to keep his mouth shut and to stop investigating. Not sure why he didn't kill him too, or why Walter would care enough to kill a cop and frame the other, but I guess we're just supposed to accept that these storylines are done for now.

26 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And yet your alternative has Misty reduced to somebody who barely has basic Google skills. Her not knowing she left the institution solves so many problems you're creating by needing her to know that. It leaves the question of why she thought that, but that could be explained in several ways if they do explain it.

That's assuming you can Google where Lottie's wellness center is. We may know she has the members of the compound go into town, but it doesn't mean it's such a wide known center that you can find it on Google. 

There are definitely ways for Misty to have lost track of Lottie, even with her wellness center and especially if Lottie had a head start before Misty figured out she left, but assuming Misty had no idea Lottie even left assumes that Misty didn't do a basic check into the institution to ensure Lottie was still there.

I think that this was a plot point that didn't make much sense, either way you look at it. Having Misty unaware, no matter which way it goes, is out of character for her. Given that we know how thorough Misty is to plan her crimes out and not leave a trail and ensure she knows everything about everyone to use against them. Like, she could rattle off personal information about the hotel manager last season but she couldn't figure out Lottie left the institution over a decade ago? She knew about Tai hiring Jessica and found Travis' new identity with ease, but can't find confirmation that Lottie was still in the institution?

It's just hard to believe Misty slipped up on keep tabs of Lottie, of all people, but could keep tabs on Travis, who changed his entire identity and went off the grid.

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I could swear Tai just says something about it, probably to Van when she gets to her place. I got the idea from somewhere. No point casting parents for it, but we know Tai has an assistant who knows she's away etc.

I thought something about a sister was mentioned, not when Tai was at Van's, but before she made the trip there, but I could be wrong.

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

That's assuming you can Google where Lottie's wellness center is. We may know she has the members of the compound go into town, but it doesn't mean it's such a wide known center that you can find it on Google. 

 

But don't you see how this is creating more questions to solve the first one? Why have to make up the idea that the compound is not on Google--which doesn't explain why Lottie herself isn't traceable as the normal person running a business she is, and assume that Lottie is specifically hiding from people when there's no indication that she is, and say Misty could find Travis who was hiding but not Lottie--when we can just focus on one thing that made Misty not even be trying to find Lottie which would far easier to do or explain? 

It is out of character for Misty not to know that she was out of the institution, but that's acknowledged by Misty herself. If she knew Lottie was out she's still having to say "How could I have missed this?" only she's adding that she's been trying to find Lottie, who's living far more openly than Travis was, and failed. This way Misty *was* keeping tabs on Lottie. She was tripped up by thinking it was easy to keep tabs on her because she was in the same institution for years. The other way she's acting like it's far easier to find a guy using a different name and living off the grid than it is a woman using her own name and openly running a whole wellness center and honey business and not hiding from anyone.

[peachmangosteen]

I just rewatched all of Tai’s scenes from the crash to when she arrives at Lottie’s compound and she doesn’t talk about where Sammy or Steve are.

[mmecorday]

Has Tai forgotten that she is a newly elected state senator? 

[Lady Calypso]

55 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But don't you see how this is creating more questions to solve the first one? Why have to make up the idea that the compound is not on Google--which doesn't explain why Lottie herself isn't traceable as the normal person running a business she is, and assume that Lottie is specifically hiding from people when there's no indication that she is, and say Misty could find Travis who was hiding but not Lottie--when we can just focus on one thing that made Misty not even be trying to find Lottie which would far easier to do or explain? 

It is out of character for Misty not to know that she was out of the institution, but that's acknowledged by Misty herself. If she knew Lottie was out she's still having to say "How could I have missed this?" only she's adding that she's been trying to find Lottie, who's living far more openly than Travis was, and failed. This way Misty *was* keeping tabs on Lottie. She was tripped up by thinking it was easy to keep tabs on her because she was in the same institution for years. The other way she's acting like it's far easier to find a guy using a different name and living off the grid than it is a woman using her own name and openly running a whole wellness center and honey business and not hiding from anyone.

Like I said, I personally find it bad writing when there were simple changes to the dialogue to have it make sense in terms of what we know about Misty. Even throwing in Lottie saying "I've been paying the institution to make it appear like I'm still a patient there to protect myself" would have worked for me. We know she's been paranoid about things that went down in the wilderness. Her paying off the institution to keep her name on current patient record would just add to that, and would have not made Misty look like she made a mistake by not keeping closer tabs on Lottie.

 

46 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just rewatched all of Tai’s scenes from the crash to when she arrives at Lottie’s compound and she doesn’t talk about where Sammy or Steve are.

Besides explaining to Van about what she did in the basement and brought up Sammy, she hasn't really mentioned her family since leaving the hospital. At the very least, she hasn't shown any concern for them or any will to return to them. 

[braziliangirl]

6 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

 

If it is intentional it makes even less sense to me tbh. Like how did TPTB really think that kind of OTT tone shift would work lol?

Maybe they thought that good lines and a famous cast was enough? Or that Misty was very popular and amped the comical tone? Maybe they watched too much Heathers between seasons? lol

I just think that the acting seems deliberate to be "funny" even if the storylines aren't or if it makes sense with the rest of the show. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by braziliangirl

[blixie]

Quote

I agree with this but the showrunners want to spread this out over 5 seasons (madness!) so they can't reveal much in season 2.

Of course but this season the only things "resolved" were:  will they get away with murdering Adam, and wilderness baby was essentially a still birth. One which was resolved in extremely unbelievable and ridiculous manner, when the writers could have just buried him and let him it be done, as we know Adam was "just a guy" not part of larger storyline. This was not a burning question nor a storyline most people wanted more of. The other we all could have guessed. And my bigger complaint is that we didn't see them leading up to the big moment with the card draw it just arrived because it was supposed to. What was the point of Crystal/Misty's arc in the past? What was the point of Coach hallucinating about hiding if only to just change the place he wants to hide from the little monsters? Why did we see Travis OBSESSED with finding Javi for like four episodes, only to see him process Javi's tragic and SUSPICIOUS death in the like 5 minutes before he ate his heart like an amuse bouche? Also not give one fuck about where he was all that time.

Like I said I think the one thing that worked especially in the finale was Natalie's arc, we did see her engaging with and confronting her past with Lottie all season, and I think that theme of jealousy and envy is still in play with Shauna in the past. They just need to get a better handle on the present storyline, in the past they do a good enough job riding the is it supernatural/rational but in the present there is no evidence of an IT that is stalking or manipulating them: it was just dumb Jeff, or Walter taking care of Adam, or Lisa/Callie showing up in the hunt. So anyway they will have a lot of time to think about it during the strike, I hears they were in the room breaking S3 before the season ended, so I'm not happy the studios are fucking them all around, but for this specific group might be a boon to take beat before moving forward creatively.

[BitterApple]

23 minutes ago, blixie said:

only to see him process Javi's tragic and SUSPICIOUS death in the like 5 minutes before he ate his heart like an amuse bouche? 

I can't remember the last time I laughed this hard. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, blixie said:

Of course but this season the only things "resolved" were:  will they get away with murdering Adam, and wilderness baby was essentially a still birth. One which was resolved in extremely unbelievable and ridiculous manner, when the writers could have just buried him and let him it be done, as we know Adam was "just a guy" not part of larger storyline. This was not a burning question nor a storyline most people wanted more of. The other we all could have guessed. And my bigger complaint is that we didn't see them leading up to the big moment with the card draw it just arrived because it was supposed to. What was the point of Crystal/Misty's arc in the past? What was the point of Coach hallucinating about hiding if only to just change the place he wants to hide from the little monsters? Why did we see Travis OBSESSED with finding Javi for like four episodes, only to see him process Javi's tragic and SUSPICIOUS death in the like 5 minutes before he ate his heart like an amuse bouche? Also not give one fuck about where he was all that time.

Like I said I think the one thing that worked especially in the finale was Natalie's arc, we did see her engaging with and confronting her past with Lottie all season, and I think that theme of jealousy and envy is still in play with Shauna in the past. They just need to get a better handle on the present storyline, in the past they do a good enough job riding the is it supernatural/rational but in the present there is no evidence of an IT that is stalking or manipulating them: it was just dumb Jeff, or Walter taking care of Adam, or Lisa/Callie showing up in the hunt. So anyway they will have a lot of time to think about it during the strike, I hears they were in the room breaking S3 before the season ended, so I'm not happy the studios are fucking them all around, but for this specific group might be a boon to take beat before moving forward creatively.

I can't like this post enough!

And yea, I hope the strike allows these particular writers to rethink the 5 season plan. I'm getting just a little worried though that the strike is gonna go on even longer than last time and I'm afraid a super long break between seasons 2 and 3 will be very bad for this show.

[peachmangosteen]

Has Tai forgotten that she is a newly elected state senator?

I find this easier to understand than her not mentioning or seemingly caring where her son/dog are. She is not actually senator yet and won't be for months. 

I actually care more about them just not mentioning Steve than Sammy. Sammy wasn't even in Tai's care anyway because Simone (rightfully) took him away from Tai after she found the dog head. But they even showed a scene of Tai being all 'It'll be different with you Steve!' just to completely ignore him when Tai went insane and hitchiked across the state to see her ex gf and then spend time with her old murder group lol.

[jsm1125]

Is Lottie’s compound supposed to be in upstate New York? Or another state?

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, jsm1125 said:

Is Lottie’s compound supposed to be in upstate New York? Or another state?

Upstate New York, yes. 

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure where the anger for season 2 comes from.  Yes you can be angry that your favorite character dies but to hate a series because it is doing exactly what it has always done is weird to me.  Yes there are a bunch of mysteries and storylines that has not been answered but in the current story it has been approx 1 week that Tai has disappeared and what happened to Simone and Sammy is not really vital to the story bc they are likely still at the hospital.  Next season will likely deal with Van being back in Tai's sphere of influence and the fact that Tai is technically a State Senator now with deep mental health issues is something that needs time to sit with and  season 2 was the rise and fall of Nat.  The Rise and Fall of Nat is something that was telegraphed as well as Jackie's ultimate demise if you take a step back and watch without getting angry at her death.  
 

Misty kills people she cares about most which was also shown in this season with Crystal.   And in the current timeline her killing Nat was something we should have all seen coming.  Misty doesn't save people.   So I am curious about what that means for Walter.  

I really  enjoyed the scenes between Jeff and Callie.  Both characters went from "Who is this asshole" to "If they die we riot." 

I am in the "does it matter?" camp when it comes to whether there is something guiding them all  in the wilderness.   I think they all in one way or another BELIEVE there is so that influences the people they are.

Nat's death was sad but I think her letting Javi die effected her more then anything else and next season we will see her darkness show in the past which will be a more in debth explanation for why she had to die in Lisa's place in the present.  
 

I get that not everyone likes what I like but YellowJackets is still one of my top 10 tv shows in the last decade or so.   I think season 2 works on the assumption that there is more to come and the show is telling a story and we only just finished Chapter 2

 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[Anela]

I think it's fine if people didn't like it. I don't have a problem with those who loved it, when I didn't.

I'm wondering when they decided to just make Van evil. Lottie was either having visions, or hallucinating, depending on how you view her character and the story. Van straight up wanted to kill someone, to try to cure her cancer. She seemed to be, anyhow. 

[BitterApple]

For all of S2's flaws, there's plenty of good material going into S3.

How do the kids adjust to the loss of the cabin? Sure, it wasn't the Four Seasons, but it was a house with furniture, a hearth, makeshift kitchen, etc. They were scrambling to grab an armful of belongings before they had to evacuate, so most of their stuff is lost. Life is going to get even more primitive than it was. 

What will happen with Coach Scott? Does he hide from them? Do they figure out he set the fire? Does he succumb to the cult? 

How will Nat perform as leader? Will they eventually find game? How long will it be before they have to do another human sacrifice? Will the groups split, with one taking residence in the plane and the other living in the cave? 

Adult timeline:

What will the fallout be from two deaths on Lottie's compound, especially when the media connects everything to the Yellowjackets?

Assuming Simone lives, will she sell Tai out to the press? Will Tai take office in the state Senate, and how will that work out?

Is Van's cancer cured?

What's Walter's agenda? I don't believe dating Misty is his endgame. 

How will Callie factor in? Are Shauna and Jeff really in the clear? 

Are there any more adult survivors lurking in the woodworks? 

[WaltersHair]

31 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

How do the kids adjust to the loss of the cabin? Sure, it wasn't the Four Seasons, but it was a house with furniture, a hearth, makeshift kitchen, etc. They were scrambling to grab an armful of belongings before they had to evacuate, so most of their stuff is lost. Life is going to get even more primitive than it was. 

I wonder if that's why pit girl was essentially in a slip and barefoot when she was running. If you get picked for the hunt, not only do you lose your life, but we're jacking your Nikes too.

[BitterApple]

41 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I wonder if that's why pit girl was essentially in a slip and barefoot when she was running. If you get picked for the hunt, not only do you lose your life, but we're jacking your Nikes too.

Lulz! I bet the girls are really regretting burning Jackie with her coat, jeans, shoes and sweater! Talk about hindsight being 20/20! 

Edited May 30, 2023 by BitterApple

[KarenX]

11 hours ago, snickers said:

As others have said, Walter just can’t fabricate legit bank records, plus the autopsy

Butbutbut… he’s a Tech Lord! He made money in TECH! We all know Tech Lords are good at everything.

And they can afford the special machines and paper.

[snickers]

10 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

just rewatched all of Tai’s scenes from the crash to when she arrives at Lottie’s compound and she doesn’t talk about where Sammy or Steve are.

Thanks for the info, I was pretty certain it was never mentioned, I get it had only been maybe 2-3 days, but parents still talk to their kids, even if they don’t have custody 🤷🏽‍♀️

And did you put Steve in boarding Tai? Such sloppy writing 😐

1 hour ago, KarenX said:

Butbutbut… he’s a Tech Lord! He made money in TECH! We all know Tech Lords are good at everything.

And they can afford the special machines and paper.

He is? Lol - I seriously don’t remember this, I remember him saying he didn’t work because of the head injury and he received millions in the settlement , but I don’t remember him saying his actual employment before 😆

For what it’s worth, still a big fan of the show, was just let down by this season compared to last

Edited May 30, 2023 by snickers

[blixie]

Quote

The women - except for Van, whom they should all be looking at more closely now - seemed to be playing along waiting for the medical team to arrive. (I think Tai maybe thought playing along would bring Lottie to her senses. 

I agree for the most part, but I also think that rituals have power and even to pretend around one that had so much meaning and familiarity, meant they got lost in that moment a bit, I don't believe any of them thought they were really going to kill Shauna, but I also am not sure what would have happened if Callie hadn't interceded. I do think Van called off the "plan" on the outside chance an exchange with the wood witch would heal her, so I agree she's a bit mercenary as she was in the past about Javi. 

Quote

I have a feeling that Van's terminal cancer is going to go away,

Cancer goes away often, and comes back often, and sometimes sometimes it never comes back. But remission is a real thing that happens and you can view that as science or faith or both. Van's cancer is for sure going to go into remission and she will probably interpret it as further proof of the wilderness giving back after a group sacrifice. She may also be happy to have Taissa back in her life. 

I'm not sure why it's such a hang up for everyone that Simone has family that are taking care of her and Sammy, I don't know why any of them would be running off to blab to the media about it. Just like I'm sure Misty hired a pet sitter for Caligula. Steve is probably shit out of luck though. 

Quote

They WILL kill him and with his disability,

Dude seems to have very easily got into and out of very deep cave all by himself and with his one legged disability. And burning a bunch of teenage girls alive, who he was literally the chaperone of is not justifiable at any level. Understandable within the story as he's obviously also experiencing a traumatic event/hallucinations, I can understand him feeling like he doesn't have the tools to help them now that they are this far over the edge. 

Count me as one who doesn't object to the camp/humor of this season at all or seeing the show as like a horror movie. I have always seen the show like a genre film/horror movie, because none of it is particularly interesting to me without that angle, maintaining the scepter of the supernatural in both stories is essential for me to continue to enjoy it. The more they lean into that the better, though I think it should never be definitive and that both/and makes more sense then either/or. Additionally I would watch a whole spinoff of Walter and Misty serial killer road trippers.

[Cosmocrush]

12 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just rewatched all of Tai’s scenes from the crash to when she arrives at Lottie’s compound and she doesn’t talk about where Sammy or Steve are.

I knew it!

 

2 hours ago, KarenX said:

Butbutbut… he’s a Tech Lord! He made money in TECH! We all know Tech Lords are good at everything.

And they can afford the special machines and paper.

I thought he got a six million dollar settlement from a falling brick injury???  He HAS a lot of tech because he can afford it all and plenty of time to learn it.  😉

[snarts]

12 hours ago, Anela said:

I think it's fine if people didn't like it. I don't have a problem with those who loved it, when I didn't.

This. 

It's disappointing that whenever someone critiques the writing, pacing, storyline, etc. some feel the need to jump in & defend it. This a forum to discuss the show, good or bad. It's a not a fanpage. 

If you're loving everything, that's great. I'm not, yet still watching, and I very much enjoy reading others thoughts, interpretations and opinions on it. 

[TakomaSnark]

14 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure where the anger for season 2 comes from.  Yes you can be angry that your favorite character dies but to hate a series because it is doing exactly what it has always done is weird to me.

The writing in S2 was unbelievably sloppy compared with S1. And it sure makes me annoyed to have invested nine hours in a season that clearly had no direction and by the finale was just throwing stuff at the wall.

Pointing out that S2 is a mess isn't 'anger,' just a fact.

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, snarts said:

This. 

It's disappointing that whenever someone critiques the writing, pacing, storyline, etc. some feel the need to jump in & defend it. This a forum to discuss the show, good or bad. It's a not a fanpage. 

If you're loving everything, that's great. I'm not, yet still watching, and I very much enjoy reading others thoughts, interpretations and opinions on it. 

 

4 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

The writing in S2 was unbelievably sloppy compared with S1. And it sure makes me annoyed to have invested nine hours in a season that clearly had no direction and by the finale was just throwing stuff at the wall.

Pointing out that S2 is a mess isn't 'anger,' just a fact.

I am all for critiquing.   But then I am all for jumping in and  defending the show as well.   I didn’t find season 2 sloppy at all.     I just found it different than season 1 because it wasn’t as focused.  But I also don’t want to start a fight or get into trouble so I will leave it at that because this is still one of my favorite shows currently on and I do like the site.    

[AstridM]

15 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure where the anger for season 2 comes from.  Yes you can be angry that your favorite character dies but to hate a series because it is doing exactly what it has always done is weird to me.  Yes there are a bunch of mysteries and storylines that has not been answered but in the current story it has been approx 1 week that Tai has disappeared and what happened to Simone and Sammy is not really vital to the story bc they are likely still at the hospital.  Next season will likely deal with Van being back in Tai's sphere of influence and the fact that Tai is technically a State Senator now with deep mental health issues is something that needs time to sit with and  season 2 was the rise and fall of Nat.  The Rise and Fall of Nat is something that was telegraphed as well as Jackie's ultimate demise if you take a step back and watch without getting angry at her death.  
 

Misty kills people she cares about most which was also shown in this season with Crystal.   And in the current timeline her killing Nat was something we should have all seen coming.  Misty doesn't save people.   So I am curious about what that means for Walter.  

I really  enjoyed the scenes between Jeff and Callie.  Both characters went from "Who is this asshole" to "If they die we riot." 

I am in the "does it matter?" camp when it comes to whether there is something guiding them all  in the wilderness.   I think they all in one way or another BELIEVE there is so that influences the people they are.

Nat's death was sad but I think her letting Javi die effected her more then anything else and next season we will see her darkness show in the past which will be a more in debth explanation for why she had to die in Lisa's place in the present.  
 

I get that not everyone likes what I like but YellowJackets is still one of my top 10 tv shows in the last decade or so.   I think season 2 works on the assumption that there is more to come and the show is telling a story and we only just finished Chapter 2

 

 

THANK YOU!!!

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, snarts said:

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by AstridM
NM

[Anela]

I don't hate-watch shows, so if I don't like the next season, I won't keep watching. As soon as I read that the writers had said there would be a lot of unreliable narration this season, it put me off, but I still watched. It definitely isn't worth arguing over. 

I think the actions of present-day Van, is just the sort of thing that would have scared Coach into setting that fire. She doesn't appear to be a serial killer, but she was willing to kill someone, in the hope that it would make her cancer go away. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Anela

[AstridM]

55 minutes ago, Anela said:

I don't hate-watch shows, so if I don't like the next season, I won't keep watching. As soon as I read that the writers had said there would be a lot of unreliable narration this season, it put me off, but I still watched. It definitely isn't worth arguing over. 

I think the actions of present-day Van, is just the sort of thing that would have scared Coach into setting that fire. She doesn't appear to be a serial killer, but she was willing to kill someone, in the hope that it would make her cancer go away. 

Agree, life is too short to continue to waste precious time on shows I no longer enjoy. I’ve quit watching more shows than I can count before their final seasons. 

[peachmangosteen]

Reading about some of the scenes they filmed but cut combined with the endless Coach hallucinations of the same damn thing, the time spent on the Adam investigation, and the horrible style of Natalie’s death scene makes me think the biggest problem this season might have actually been in editing. 

[AstridM]

4 hours ago, snarts said:

This. 

It's disappointing that whenever someone critiques the writing, pacing, storyline, etc. some feel the need to jump in & defend it. This a forum to discuss the show, good or bad. It's a not a fanpage. 

If you're loving everything, that's great. I'm not, yet still watching, and I very much enjoy reading others thoughts, interpretations and opinions on it. 

Aren’t all viewpoints welcome here? It’s not ok to try and gatekeep what’s allowed, imho. 

[meep.meep]

18 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

I really  enjoyed the scenes between Jeff and Callie.  Both characters went from "Who is this asshole" to "If they die we riot." 

I know!

I want to know how Walter managed to find heliotrope clothing so quickly.  He totally blended in with the rest of the cult.

When Travis is outside the cabin and the girls are bringing in Javi's body, isn't there another girl standing behind him?  She's wearing a knit cap.  It can't be Lotte.  So someone else declined to go on the wild hunt.  Who?

[peachmangosteen]

Just now, meep.meep said:

When Travis is outside the cabin and the girls are bringing in Javi's body, isn't there another girl standing behind him?  She's wearing a knit cap.  It can't be Lotte.  So someone else declined to go on the wild hunt.  Who?

I believe it was just Misty, Akilah, Tai, Shauna, and Van that went after Natalie. Mari and the other extra girls stayed behind.

3 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

I want to know how Walter managed to find heliotrope clothing so quickly.  He totally blended in with the rest of the cult.

They showed him getting a purple jacket out of his closet in episode 8. I can believe he happened to have a purple jacket. 

[snarts]

2 hours ago, AstridM said:

Aren’t all viewpoints welcome here? It’s not ok to try and gatekeep what’s allowed, imho. 

Yes, which is why it was disheartening to see those who are critical or questioning the direction of S2 being told they're wrong or angry or hate watching. 

[sistermagpie]

On 5/29/2023 at 1:29 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I just rewatched all of Tai’s scenes from the crash to when she arrives at Lottie’s compound and she doesn’t talk about where Sammy or Steve are.

I must have filled it in myself--though I think I filled it in on some comment I read because I never remembered the actual moment. It is something they needed to address, though. They've got Shauna as a mother elsewhere and had a whole story about Sammy, so they ought to know they can't treat him that conveniently. Even if he's with Simone's family, which would obviously make sense, she'd have to talk to him. His mother's in the hospital and he doesn't know where Tai is.

16 hours ago, blixie said:

I agree for the most part, but I also think that rituals have power and even to pretend around one that had so much meaning and familiarity, meant they got lost in that moment a bit, I don't believe any of them thought they were really going to kill Shauna, but I also am not sure what would have happened if Callie hadn't interceded. I do think Van called off the "plan" on the outside chance an exchange with the wood witch would heal her, so I agree she's a bit mercenary as she was in the past about Javi. 

That's how I saw it. I didn't think they were fully after Shauna--people laughed at how slow the chase was because I think all of them, including Shauna, were sort of unclear about what they were doing. It was Callie who was taking it fully seriously, and they ripped off their masks as soon as they saw her, like the end of Lord of the Flies, a little.

16 hours ago, blixie said:

I'm not sure why it's such a hang up for everyone that Simone has family that are taking care of her and Sammy, I don't know why any of them would be running off to blab to the media about it. Just like I'm sure Misty hired a pet sitter for Caligula. Steve is probably shit out of luck though. 

I assume since Tai has an assistant that can do things for her, she took care of it.

16 hours ago, blixie said:

Dude seems to have very easily got into and out of very deep cave all by himself and with his one legged disability. And burning a bunch of teenage girls alive, who he was literally the chaperone of is not justifiable at any level. Understandable within the story as he's obviously also experiencing a traumatic event/hallucinations, I can understand him feeling like he doesn't have the tools to help them now that they are this far over the edge. 

The thing about this for me is that people keep just saying they'll kill him because of his disability so it's practically self-defense whatever he does when that's just never there in the show at all. They picked cards with everyone participating (except Ben, who wasn't there). Yes, they didn't want to lose Lottie because she was their priestess, but nobody decided that less useful people had to pick twice. They're not doing a whole lot of traveling where Ben's lack of a leg has set him apart. Lottie, the person they were trying to save in this ep, was currently injured and was far more helpless than Ben. 

It just seems like projecting the idea that Coach is justified in murdering everyone because they're obviously going to kill him because he's only got one leg onto the story because it's logical as a spectator in ways it isn't to the people in there. Even more so when it's even presented as more justified than the kids killing a person or eating a corpse.

In fact, I realize it seems like even last season characters sometimes got described as being morally superior just for not being Shauna or Lottie. Even Laura Lee seemed to often get defined as demonstrating morality when she was demonstrating Christianity.

7 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am all for critiquing.   But then I am all for jumping in and  defending the show as well.   I didn’t find season 2 sloppy at all.     I just found it different than season 1 because it wasn’t as focused.  But I also don’t want to start a fight or get into trouble so I will leave it at that because this is still one of my favorite shows currently on and I do like the site.    

I can enjoy critiques of even shows I really like if they seem valid. I think there really are things in the Adam storyline that sometimes undermined things. But some criticisms I just disagree with--just because it's negative doesn't mean it's right. I remember years ago somebody righteously explaning how Don Draper's Carousel pitch was really bad, actually, and offered an alternative that was laughably terrible! So yeah, I can disagree with a critique with disagreeing with critique in general.

As to the pacing question, I don't identify with that one. It seems like some things people describe as filler or nothing happening were completely gripping to me, especially in the 90s storyline. But both, really. Same with not feeling like I'm not getting answers I'm supposed to be getting. So while I think procedural investigations aren't in the writers' wheelhouse, a lot of the other stuff they're doing is great. And I don't feel any preemptive anxiety about it going five seasons. I'm fine letting them doing their own plan and seeing what I think about it without cutting them off for their own good beforehand. 

2 hours ago, meep.meep said:

 

When Travis is outside the cabin and the girls are bringing in Javi's body, isn't there another girl standing behind him?  She's wearing a knit cap.  It can't be Lotte.  So someone else declined to go on the wild hunt.  Who?

 

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I believe it was just Misty, Akilah, Tai, Shauna, and Van that went after Natalie. Mari and the other extra girls stayed behind.

They showed him getting a purple jacket out of his closet in episode 8. I can believe he happened to have a purple jacket. 

The girls in the cabin had stayed behind to keep Travis from saving Natalie. They weren't refusing the hunt, they were making sure it continued.

Edited May 30, 2023 by sistermagpie

[Anela]

1 hour ago, snarts said:

Yes, which is why it was disheartening to see those who are critical or questioning the direction of S2 being told they're wrong or angry or hate watching. 

I wasn't accusing anyone of hate-watching. I was just saying I wouldn't keep watching and posting next season, if I think it's really bad. I stopped watching Grey's again, because I didn't enjoy it anymore. 

I disagree with the people who were clamouring for the girls to kill Coach, like picturing Misty getting her glorious revenge, because he didn't respond well to her sexual harassment. Who wanted the baby to be eaten, and also think the coach had no right to be scared of them. that makes no sense to me, but I haven't really seen that here. I stopped watching American Horror Story, precisely because it goes off the rails, every time, and they had babies being sold to be eaten by vampiric people, a couple of years ago. A play on the conspiracy theories about hollywood, I guess. On the other hand, I have a friend who disliked The Witches of East End, but loved that season of AHS - "Now *these* are the witches I was looking for!" was something she said, when she watched the first episode. 

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Anela

[peachmangosteen]

I absolutely enjoyed watching pretty much the entirety of the Adam investigation but it was poorly written, completely unrealistic, and they didn't need to spend anywhere near the time they spent on it when they chose to not show much more important/impactful scenes like the girls discussing the card draw or a tiny scene of Tai explaining she talked to Sammy and did something about Steve.

I just watched the behind the episode for this ep and the showrunners said that when the adult women were redoing the ritual that 'a force' took over them so I guess we were meant to think they really were going through with it at the time.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

I absolutely enjoyed watching pretty much the entirety of the Adam investigation but it was poorly written, completely unrealistic, and they didn't need to spend anywhere near the time they spent on it when they chose to not show much more important/impactful scenes like the girls discussing the card draw or a tiny scene of Tai explaining she talked to Sammy and did something about Steve.

Tai mentioning Sammy wouldn't have even taken much time, but I disagree strongly about the discussion of the card draw. I think it was much more effective just showing them doing it. We all understood it and I don't think there was meant to have been any big discussion or working out of the rules.

[peachmangosteen]

The card draw is such a huge part of the story. We're just supposed to think they all went yea cool I'm fine with this? I'm sorry that's stupid to me. And I don't even think that was what happened anyway because a scene was filmed apparently.

But maybe the Adam murder is actually somehow more important to the showrunners, which honestly yikes if so lol.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

The card draw is such a huge part of the story. We're just supposed to think they all went yea cool I'm fine with this? I'm sorry that's stupid to me. And I don't even think that was what happened anyway because a scene was filmed apparently.

 

Imo, yes! Unless the point is going to be some point of procedure that comes up during it, what would I need to know? If somebody had a problem with it they'd only be able to be convinced by the idea that it was them or Lottie or something like that, right? So I don't feel like I need people making the obvious objections to it at first. It doesn't seem like there's somebody being set up as the one who was bullied into it so will be trouble later or something.

I probably would have liked the scene and if they ever put it out as a deleted scene maybe i'll like it--if there's something in it I think made a difference I'll definitely change my mind. But I didn't feel like I missed anything by having it happen offscreen.

[peachmangosteen]

To show the gross cop smelling the fucking condom and not show literally anything about discussion of the ritual that started the murder cannibalism is just astonishing stupid to me. Like I can't even fathom it.

But clearly the showrunners don't see certain things as important that imo they really should lol.

ETA: To say nothing of them showing Coach hallucinate Paul and say the same things for like 3 episodes. And apparently they actually even filmed more that didn't get shown. Insanity!

[WaltersHair]

Years ago on the Ray Donovan thread, someone came in and complained about all the Abby hate. What I said then will apply here.

I hated Abby and if she died I wouldn't shed a tear (this was before the Big C arc).  BUT I would never tell anyone they couldn't like her. TV is precisely about choice and how great that choice has become. My very early years started with four channels and PBS.

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

To show the gross cop smelling the fucking condom and not show literally anything about discussion of the ritual that started the murder cannibalism is just astonishing stupid to me. Like I can't even fathom it.

But the two things are kind of the opposite. The card discussion scene is the equivalent to them not showing Randy squirting the hand cream into the condom before we saw Pornstache cop sniff it and pronounce it strawberry. 

[peachmangosteen]

Hey, good idea, they could have just not shown that Randy scene! And maybe replace it with a 30 second scene of Tai taking about her child and dog lol.

I read an interview with the actor playing Ben and he mentioned some deleted scenes that imo would have made Ben’s story this season better. Certainly would have been more interesting than 5 scenes of him hallucinating the same damn thing.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, WaltersHair said:

Years ago on the Ray Donovan thread, someone came in and complained about all the Abby hate. What I said then will apply here.

I hated Abby and if she died I wouldn't shed a tear (this was before the Big C arc).  BUT I would never tell anyone they couldn't like her. TV is precisely about choice and how great that choice has become. My very early years started with four channels and PBS.

I haven't seen anyone tell anyone else that they couldn't like someone. Did I miss something? 

34 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Hey, good idea, they could have just not shown that Randy scene! And maybe replace it with a 30 second scene of Tai taking about her child and dog lol.

I read an interview with the actor playing Ben and he mentioned some deleted scenes that imo would have made Ben’s story this season better. Certainly would have been more interesting than 5 scenes of him hallucinating the same damn thing.

They also didn't include him in any talks. They either didn't notice that he was missing, or they didn't care. What would happen the next time?

They didn't even consider the next person dying, maybe of starvation, and eating them first. They didn't find Crystal, and have them make the decision, in the light of day, to eat her next. They jumped to murder.

That also has me thinking of people who suggested they eat someone piece by piece. I think that would be awkward. Now I have Monty Python in my head, with some sort of wicked sketch. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Anela

[peachmangosteen]

I saw a comment on Reddit that Javi’s ‘she’ was probably just an hallucination and fuck me but I could definitely see them going there. With Javi dead though, it’d be hard to explain it that way. Although, they may just never explain it at all, unfortunately.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I saw a comment on Reddit that Javi’s ‘she’ was probably just an hallucination and fuck me but I could definitely see them going there. With Javi dead though, it’d be hard to explain it that way. Although, they may just never explain it at all, unfortunately.

And that seems to be a good question about how one's viewing the show. For me, while I'm open to Javi's "she" being explained in a realistic way, the idea that it's never explained or was some kind of imaginary thing seems absolutely fine, and potentially better. Same with who the Man with No Eyes is (a scary idea Tai's dying grandmother put in her head) and the Other Tai (the parts of herself Tai ruthlessly supresses.)

The card discussion scene seems like it was meant to be explained by the 7 episodes leading up to it wrt peoples' belief in Lottie, since it's not like there's anything they could have discussed that would make it more reasonable.

[BitterApple]

I'm fine with Javi's "she" being a hallucination or even Dark Tai. I don't want it to be some random tree woman who's been living in the cave for twenty years.