S05.E05: The Pirate Queen

[ProudMary]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:31 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Midge selling wigs is like Joan Rivers selling jewelry on QVC.

 

On 4/29/2023 at 5:39 AM, shapeshifter said:

Midge hawking wigs is reminiscent of Joan Rivers doing QVC. Both needed to pay bills. 

There's real-life precedent for the wigs. Eva Gabor was the celebrity wig hawker back in the later '60s and '70s. My Mom had 3 or 4 of Eva's wigs. I just did a quick search and Eva Gabor wigs are still a thing, available on Amazon. 

[gorgy]

I must be getting used to the flash forwards because this one didn't annoy me as much. I know the wigs thing is a reference to Joan Rivers on QVC but anytime I think of bad celebrity endorsements, I always go to Cher's informercials from the early 90s. I was like five years old when they aired and that's the first thing I probably ever seen her do. Anyway, a nightclub owner going to white collar prison for some sort of money laundering scheme doesn't seem too out of character, so no problem there. We haven't seen too much of Imogene or Archie this season, so it's nice whenever they show up.

Don't have too much else to add, but that is the nicest gay bath house I've ever seen. 

 

[kwnyc]

9 hours ago, gorgy said:

Don't have too much else to add, but that is the nicest gay bath house I've ever seen. 

A few years later, Terrence McNally wrote a play set in a gay bathhouse called "The RItz," which featured Rita Moreno as the resident girl singer!

[tennisgurl]

Things are really a mess by the time we hit the 80s. Midge is a big success but her kids don't talk to her, she and Susie are estranged, she isn't doing what she loves and instead is just trying to make money, and now we find out that Joel is in jail, presumably for some kind of white collar crime, because he was trying to help Midge. I wonder if we will just keep getting these bits or if we are going to see things improve. I hope so at least. 

I can see Midge and Joel going on and off for awhile, maybe even getting married and divorced again, they always end up being pulled back to each other. I'm waiting for Joel to call on his connections with Mei's parents to help with Susie's gangster issue. 

Good on Midge for standing up for the waitress, even if things took a turn pretty quickly due to an unfortunately timed gust of wind. I'm on the side of Midge not meaning to drop the jacket, but watching things continue to escalate in her crimes was hilarious. Just an accidental bit of light piracy. 

Gordan's certainly a charmer and he seems like a decent guy, but Midge is totally right about why they cant go out while she's working on his show. After that, she's going to just be Gordan's girlfriend before she's a comic or a writer, and that's not what she wants. 

Midge really did look incredible in that dress she wore at the wedding, she always looks great but her outfits this season are better than ever. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Good on Midge for standing up for the waitress, even if things took a turn pretty quickly due to an unfortunately timed gust of wind. I'm on the side of Midge not meaning to drop the jacket, but watching things continue to escalate in her crimes was hilarious. Just an accidental bit of light piracy. 

After my re-watch of the scene, I am speculating that the [unexpected by Midge] added weight of the harrasser's keys and wallet [and maybe a money clip] was what caused the jacket to fly into the river.
Midge immediately saying: "You didn't have your keys in there, did you?" is what started me on this interpretation.
Later we learned the jacket was also weighed down by the wallet. 

Love: "Just an accidental bit of light piracy." Hee!

[Straycat80]

On 4/28/2023 at 4:55 PM, Elbaite 2.0 said:

I'm getting confused as to the time period they're referencing. I thought we were still in the early 60s, but they were obviously alluding to Bette Midler starting her career at the Continental Baths. The Baths didn't open until 1968 and Midler's first appearance was circa 1970. Gay life, even in NYC, being as open and accepted in the early 60s as it was in the early 70s is a helluva time jump.

When Joel was in the church in the beginning of the episode it said it was 1961. 
 

 

[Whimsy]

It’s so interesting that we can perceive the same scene so differently!  When she started with the jacket I thought she was going to toss it on purpose, but the look on her face and her “huh” ( not “oopsie” as some have said here) told me that it was an accident. There was no smirk, no twinkle in her eye or any gleefulness to her reaction after it went overboard. 

[bybrandy]

I heard oop not huh or oopsie and I also thought it was an accident. She was totally fucking with him but I don’t think she intended to drop it. 

[chaifan]

I think what I like most about the jacket scene is that it isn't 100% clear, and subject to interpretation, and that the show doesn't (or at least hasn't in this episode) fully spell out Midge's intent.  I saw it as intentional fuckery, others see it as a genuine accident.  On stuff like this, that really has no bearing to the overall plot, I'm ok with not really knowing for sure. 

I am curious, though, whether in rehearsal/filming they played with the scene a little, trying it with various degrees of intent and/or accident.

 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

I saw it the same way, that is both ways, that they were leaving it ambiguous. 

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I think what I like most about the jacket scene is that it isn't 100% clear, and subject to interpretation, and that the show doesn't (or at least hasn't in this episode) fully spell out Midge's intent.  I saw it as intentional fuckery, others see it as a genuine accident.  On stuff like this, that really has no bearing to the overall plot, I'm ok with not really knowing for sure. 

I am curious, though, whether in rehearsal/filming they played with the scene a little, trying it with various degrees of intent and/or accident.

Yes, although I'm 99% sure Midge did not intend for the jacket to actually go overboard, I do think they staged it to look like she *might* have done it on purpose, because otherwise the piracy charge would have been totally bogus.

Also, I do think Midge could have *wanted* to throw the coat in the water accidentally-on-purpose, but at that the moment it happened, she did not intend it.

[basil]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I do think they staged it to look like she *might* have done it on purpose, because otherwise the piracy charge would have been totally bogus.

The piracy charge was an over-reach if not a complete invention. They were throwing the book at her. Notice how quickly everyone agreed to see that all charges were dropped once the star of the show wanted them to be.

That said, I am really sick of Midge getting away with and even being lauded and rewarded for being SUCH an asshole. I don't think I've ever despised a fictional character quite so much.

[qtpye]

On 4/30/2023 at 11:51 AM, maddie965 said:

I've reached the point where I just come here, find out what the best parts of the episode are and fast forward through the rest.

Can't stand the "future" scenes. Can't stand anything not related to Midge and can't barely stand her scenes. Keep waiting for Luke Kirby to miraculously come back. Sad end to a show that used to be one of my favorites.

 

On 4/30/2023 at 3:05 PM, dancingdreamer said:

That's  how I was feeling. Something  about episode  5 changed, and I became  interested  again. I was feeling  guilty, because  having loved all these characters,  for such a long time, this season  wasn't  doing it for me. I'm hoping  episode  6 is going to really  grab me, again.

Is it weird to people that this show seems to be getting absolutely no buzz when it came out of the gate so strong?

I never thought I would love Joel's parents and detest Midge's family that first season.

[AuntieMame]

8 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

Is it weird to people that this show seems to be getting absolutely no buzz when it came out of the gate so strong?

I never thought I would love Joel's parents and detest Midge's family that first season.

I think that’s because Joel’s parents are genuine and sincere when you strip away the over the top tacky nouveau gloss the writing has slathered over them. Joel learned to be a mensch from his father. The man who made sure that Abe and Rose weren’t homeless, who made sure Midge and the kids had the apartment, who rescued people from Nazi Germany even though he had not the first clue how to go about it.
 
The only sincere kind thing we’ve seen from the Weissman’s was Abe writing Moishe’s obituary. Which said he was a mensch. I’m not saying the Weissman’s are terrible people but where the rubber meets the road you can see that Maisel family is stronger on active love and kindness. 

[mostlylurking]

On 4/28/2023 at 6:35 AM, shapeshifter said:

The scene with all the mouths gossiping about where Susie confronted the producer on behalf of her client:
Was that real or in Susie's imagination?

I thought it was real just because we know that Susie became quite famous herself, so I thought this was kind of how she got her name known.

Her lines about Miriam being a pirate and the “argh!” At the end made me laugh so hard.  Her delivery is impeccable.

[mostlylurking]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:15 AM, AuntieMame said:

On 5/4/2023 at 10:40 PM, qtpye said:

I never thought I would love Joel's parents and detest Midge's family that first season.

I think that’s because Joel’s parents are genuine and sincere when you strip away the over the top tacky nouveau gloss the writing has slathered over them.

I thought it was so sweet Joel’s dad crying at the wedding and Joel giving him a tissue.  Plus his mom crawling on the floor to fix Zelda’s dress.  Hee!!  They would drive me insane in real life, but they really do mean well.  Miriam’s parents are all about themselves (as is Miriam).  They claim to love Zelda as family but really they were just upset they were losing their help.

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

I thought it was so sweet Joel’s dad crying at the wedding and Joel giving him a tissue.  Plus his mom crawling on the floor to fix Zelda’s dress.  Hee!!  They would drive me insane in real life, but they really do mean well.  Miriam’s parents are all about themselves (as is Miriam).  They claim to love Zelda as family but really they were just upset they were losing their help.

They didn't even bother to read the binder she so generously put together for them.

I'm glad Zelda went on to have her own life and stopped taking care of these ungrateful people 24/7.

[shapeshifter]

36 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I'm glad Zelda went on to have her own life and stopped taking care of these ungrateful people 24/7.

And yet, if the Weissmans had treated Zelda better, she likely would not have left them, so if she’s really happily married, it’s a good thing they were ungrateful employers.

[ProudMary]

I do think that Zelda really loved Ethan and Esther and probably stuck around much longer than she should have, for them. Although it wasn't dwelled upon by the writers, the children were probably the most affected by Zelda's departure. It was obvious that they weren't their mother's priority. Joel did try, but he didn't have primary custody. At least, Ethan was already at school. Poor Esther pretty much raised herself, although we know--thankfully--from Esther's flash forward that she was close to Abe.

[fishcakes]

I don't think Zelda was mistreated or that she thought she was mistreated. The Weissmans were high-maintenance in the way that children are high-maintenance, but clearly Zelda was part of the family, albeit the one who did almost all of the household work. It was Janusz who wanted her to stop working and cut off all contact; behind his back, she continued to talk to and do favors for them after she quit.

[bettername2come]

The long-winded explanation leading to Midge becoming a pirate amused me. I thought Midge only meant to fake the jacket going overboard. It was good to see that she actually stood up for someone. 

I appreciated Shirley's dedication to making sure Zelda's dress was perfect. I'm glad everyone loves Zelda, but Joel's parents were genuinely sweet and caring while they are also the least involved in her life.