S02.E04: Old Wounds

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, snickers said:

^totally agree with this….I always thought from season 1 some of them are still there, I originally thought Lottie was one of them, but whose to say Javi isn’t? Mari isn’t ? Javi does seem possessed, I don’t think he’s going to be the same person, might be easier for Travis as the seasons progress to let him go…

I don't see why any of them would still be there. There's not many of them to start with (only one charted plane) and many of them have already been accounted for. What would be relevent about some of the supporting characters deciding to live in the woods forever? 

11 hours ago, snickers said:

Another reason I think other people come into this is because so far it seems we have quite a few survivors ….7 that we know of….I’m counting what, 7-8 people still unaccounted for? Just doesn’t seem like enough people left to eat plus  they have at least one more winter but I’m thinking they might have another half of a winter as well until they are rescued…also the show creators said it was about warring clans right? Maybe that didn’t mean with each other-

They don't necessarily have to eat that many people. As you say, there's not that many people to eat and eating random strangers who conveniently show up isn't as meaningful as eating someone you know.

The "warring clans" thing has always been important to fandom because of the synopsis but I've always hoped it was just inaccurate. First, again, there's not that many people. They can have conflicts with each other without being some Hatfields and McCoys thing that truly separates them. A war is a different thing than them eating their own. Plus you always, as you said, get into the shelter issue--which must exist since Javi was somewhere, but settling places up just seems less wild. People are always imagining different shelters where they'll stay etc. The forest becomes more accomodating all the time.

 

4 hours ago, Shermie said:

I seriously doubt the plane crashed in Quebec. The flight path from New Jersey to Seattle only crosses Canadian air space over Southern Ontario; ending up in Quebec would mean going off course the minute the flight took off. The flight path gets close to the Alberta border so veering into the Canadian Rockies at that point makes sense. Although why no one in air traffic control noticed the flight going that far off course doesn’t make sense. Does anyone remember how far they were into the flight when it crashed? 

I don't think we know how far into the flight they were. I think in the rescue scene they're being taken to Seattle as the nearest city, so fairly far into it, I guess.

4 hours ago, Shermie said:

I’m still very curious about the outcome of Shauna’s pregnancy. So much speculation about random present day characters being that baby, but why would that be? If the baby survived, why would Shauna give it up for adoption? It would be what, 9 months old by then? And it’s her and Jeff’s child, the guy she marries, not the result of some one-nighter with a random guy. I really can’t see her having that baby in the cabin, the survivors bonding with it and helping raise it, and then when they’re rescued, she gives it away? No. I’m assuming the baby doesn’t survive.

Yeah, that's how I feel about it too. I see no need for soapy twists about the baby's identity. More trauma would come from the baby dying. Also some people suggest Jeff read Shauna's diaries but she didn't write about it, which seems impossible. Why would she write about stuff that could get her blackmailed but not being pregnant? The baby dying seems like it would play into Shauna's present personality as a mother.

1 hour ago, blixie said:

I think it's possible at some point they stop eating humans for sustenance and instead as purely ritual sacrifice. But again that only works for me if they are facing off against some other antagonist

Why would it only make sense with an antagonist--if by that you mean a human one? The gods could be the ones granting the gift/demanding the sacrifice. Lottie seems to infer exactly that in this ep. Them eating humans doesn't mean that's their main food source. It might only happen in the dead of winter when they feel like they've been given the sign to do so. They wouldn't need that many people in that case as well

1 hour ago, blixie said:

I have to think Shauna baby is another reason I'm guessing there is another non Yellowjacket faction out there. If it's not dead the only place it could be is the woods with someone taking care of it. Just like Javi. 

Sure, if the baby lived and grew up somebody other than Shauna raised it but that still seems like it's getting far away from forest nature cult and middle aged women's adolescent trauma coming back up to haunt them. In the original script that baby lived and was raised by Shauna and Jeff--not that that's relevent to what's happening now, but it does suggest that this baby is important as Shauna's, not as a symbolic Wilderness Baby. Shauna's the only YJ we've met so far who's given birth. It also gets away from the forest being a place where they were free to let what was inside them out, because now they're fighting against other people.

Edited April 17, 2023 by sistermagpie

[blixie]

Quote

if by that you mean a human one? 

I don't mean only a human one. It could of course be a god or other supernatural entity, which I'm also fine with.

 

Quote

it's getting far away from forest nature cult 

It's not if the people raising him ARE the forest nature cult which obviously predate the girls crashing there, even if it's a god, humans invented God's and it's followers carved the stuff in the trees.  The people carving them could be long dead, but this is clearly not He who wants blood's first time around the may pole. I don't see tree carvings and think yeah no way human did that. 

[Shermie]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

They don't necessarily have to eat that many people. As you say, there's not that many people to eat and eating random strangers who conveniently show up isn't as meaningful as eating someone you know.

I gotta say, never in all my days did I imagine this kind of conversation on a tv discussion board, and yet, here we are.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, blixie said:

It's not if the people raising him ARE the forest nature cult which obviously predate the girls crashing there, even if it's a god, humans invented God's and it's followers carved the stuff in the trees.  The people carving them could be long dead, but this is clearly not He who wants blood's first time around the may pole. I don't see tree carvings and think yeah no way human did that. 

It does get away from it, imo, because now the nature cult isn't something that came from the girls' minds and the forest. The girls are now representing civilization vs. the wilderness cult people.

I mean, we do, of course, know people have been there. Cabin Daddy built the cabin, had a plane, and drew the symbol on the floor of his attic--he may have also been the one carving the symbol on trees. But so far the actual meaning of that symbol to the girls comes from them, especially Lottie.

[KaveDweller]

7 hours ago, blixie said:

Those are definitely not the mountains of Eastern Canada far far to large, and the showrunners have said I think they are in Western Canada/Vancouver, and when they're rescued they get off a plane in Seattle. Almost everyone in Canada learns French and while Quebec is the Frenchiest, there are French speakers in most of the provinces. I think it's weird that they are that far west, but I guess they never said where the Nationals were being held, and they would have had to be in the air for over five hours and it didn't seem that long before it crashed.. 

Nationals was being held in Seattle, wasn't it. So they were flying cross country (via Canada) but I don't think we can guess how far in they were. Didn't the scene cut from early in the flight to them crashing?

[BitterApple]

At what point in Canada does the topography switch to very high mountain ranges? Wherever that is, it's a safe bet the plane crashed there or somewhere to the west. 

[Shermie]

12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

At what point in Canada does the topography switch to very high mountain ranges? Wherever that is, it's a safe bet the plane crashed there or somewhere to the west. 

Same as the US, since they’re one piece of land. Lower mountains in the east and the Rockies in the west. As I posted earlier, the flight plan from New Jersey to Seattle (where they were headed), doesn’t go over Canada except briefly over Southern Ontario. I’m assuming trouble started mid-flight and it veered north into Alberta and crashed in the Rockies. Their rescue flight lands in Seattle, so it all tracks.

[WaltersHair]

Hey, I'm willing to concede Vancouver is where the plane crashed because that's where it's being filmed. I just wonder why, through two seasons so far, that the writers have had Lottie become a French speaking Canadian when she's having visions if it wasn't important to the plot. Maybe it's not, but I'll be disappointed if it's just a scare tactic.

[MBayGal]

1 hour ago, WaltersHair said:

writers have had Lottie become a French speaking Canadian when she's having visions if it wasn't important to the plot. Maybe it's not, but I'll be disappointed if it's just a scare tactic.

Maybe one of her parents was originally from Canada, or she took a lot of French classes in high school.

[snickers]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Why would it only make sense with an antagonist--if by that you mean a human one? The gods could be the ones granting the gift/demanding the sacrifice. Lottie seems to infer exactly that in this ep. Them eating humans doesn't mean that's their main food source. It might only happen in the dead of winter when they feel like they've been given the sign to do so. They wouldn't need that many people in that case as well

Ok if it comes about that these sacrifices are “for the forest gods” then yes, I agree plot wise only a few people are needed as sacrifices….I think that opening scene of the pilot is still a big clue and yes, that scene did look very “sacrificial” followed by the cannibalism bonfire 

I say those now 3 established extras including Misty’s new BFF for sure will be those sacrifices, I”m just curious to see how it’s determined who’s dying…

we will see what happens to coach, he seemed better this episode 

1 hour ago, WaltersHair said:

Hey, I'm willing to concede Vancouver is where the plane crashed because that's where it's being filmed. I just wonder why, through two seasons so far, that the writers have had Lottie become a French speaking Canadian when she's having visions if it wasn't important to the plot. Maybe it's not, but I'll be disappointed if it's just a scare tactic.

I think after the seance Lottie became possessed by hunter guy or cabin daddy….I’m thinking he’s our French speaker or maybe it’s the unestablished forest gods? 
 

the problem with this show/fandom is sooo many wild theories out there….but I’m curious to see reactions when who knows how many years from now we (hopefully) get the answers of what the symbol/darkness/visions are all about 

[Anela]

10 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

Maybe one of her parents was originally from Canada, or she took a lot of French classes in high school.

Didn't they send her to a mental hospital in Switzerland? Maybe they spent time there before, since her parents are wealthy. Don't they speak French there? 

I know someone who lives there, and they seem to speak German in her area. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Hey, I'm willing to concede Vancouver is where the plane crashed because that's where it's being filmed. I just wonder why, through two seasons so far, that the writers have had Lottie become a French speaking Canadian when she's having visions if it wasn't important to the plot. Maybe it's not, but I'll be disappointed if it's just a scare tactic.

The French speaking Canadian is Cabin Daddy if anyone. He could have come from anywhere in Canada before building a cabin in the Rockies.

Lottie did take French in high school, but sucked at it generally as far as Jackie could tell.

[AstridM]

8 hours ago, blixie said:

I don't mean only a human one. It could of course be a god or other supernatural entity, which I'm also fine with.

 

It's not if the people raising him ARE the forest nature cult which obviously predate the girls crashing there, even if it's a god, humans invented God's and it's followers carved the stuff in the trees.  The people carving them could be long dead, but this is clearly not He who wants blood's first time around the may pole. I don't see tree carvings and think yeah no way human did that. 

I think I’m watching a completely different show than some of you. 

2 hours ago, MBayGal said:

Maybe one of her parents was originally from Canada, or she took a lot of French classes in high school.

It was established that Lottie did study French for several years. Most people in Canada study French in school as well, not just those in Quebec. I studied French in middle and high school, and while I was never very fluent speaking it, I did have dreams in French regularly. So it’s not particularly unusual or unbelievable that Lottie has visions or episodes in French, imo. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by AstridM

[Daltrey]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:42 PM, paulvdb said:

Quoting this from last week's episode topic:

So we get a hatch  but it was only in Lottie's imagination.

I laughed so hard at that scene after last week's discussion.🤣 I thought "no way!" Then I remembered, oh yeah, she has visions, lol.

Misty and Frodo systematically checking their separate rooms in equal fashion was a nice touch.

Loved Natalie going off on Lisa's mom, even though I initially thought she might side with her and say she'd been kidnapped into the cult herself.

The slow burn continues.

[tennisgurl]

Lottie finding that hatch only to have it be revealed to be a dream/vision was hilarious, you can tell that the show was screwing with us. Its like they wanted to say "show is getting weird, but we still aren't Lost weird, no magic hatches and polar bears" even as things get increasingly crazy. 

It would be wild if Javi really was just hanging around the cabin this whole time out of sight, although I still suspect that there could be another faction out there in the woods who were taking care of him. There are still those weird symbols they found marked on trees back in season one, and that could be the reason some of the Yellowjackets survived. Our very own Others? Has Javi joined their book club? 

Interesting that it seems like Lottie was sort of pushed more into the role of prophet, at least at this point, and that she was actually a lot less intense about things than some of her followers. Then we find out that adult cult leader Lottie doesn't even buy what she's selling, although she does seem to believe some of it, with all of the bleeding and such. She is even seeing a therapist, something all of the Yellowjacks clearly need. Is Tai going to end up being the actual cult leader? 

Poor Coach Ben is clearly not long for this world, especially with all of these cute flashback to him and his boyfriend. 

Nice to see Laura Lee again, even if just as a dream/vision. And adult Van!

[Guinnessgirl]

Loved hearing Angst in my Pants.  Brought back memories of watching Valley Girl.  

[Shermie]

On 4/17/2023 at 7:26 PM, WaltersHair said:

Hey, I'm willing to concede Vancouver is where the plane crashed because that's where it's being filmed.

Vancouver is not in the wilderness. The plane obviously crashed in the Rocky Mountains somewhere between Alberta and BC. I don’t know why that’s such a difficult concept, since it matches the flight path (with a deviation), the terrain, and the remoteness.

[AstridM]

3 hours ago, Guinnessgirl said:

Loved hearing Angst in my Pants.  Brought back memories of watching Valley Girl.  

The best part!

[WaltersHair]

11 hours ago, Shermie said:

Vancouver is not in the wilderness. The plane obviously crashed in the Rocky Mountains somewhere between Alberta and BC. I don’t know why that’s such a difficult concept, since it matches the flight path (with a deviation), the terrain, and the remoteness.

I should have said 'Vancouver area' . I've been there a few times, so I know what it looks like. And I've been far on the outside of it, so BC. Not a difficult concept at all.

Edited April 20, 2023 by WaltersHair

[Baltimore Betty]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:41 AM, Guinnessgirl said:

Loved hearing Angst in my Pants.  Brought back memories of watching Valley Girl.  

I remember "Eaten By the Monster of Love," That would have fit while the YJ's were chowing down on their teammate.

[Daltrey]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:02 PM, WaltersHair said:

I should have said 'Vancouver area' . I've been there a few times, so I know what it looks like. And I've been far on the outside of it, so BC. Not a difficult concept at all.

I mean, yeah, when you can drive an hour or so north out of North Van, straight up the mountain...we're not too far off, let's be honest.🤣

[chaifan]

On 4/18/2023 at 12:56 PM, tennisgurl said:

Its like they wanted to say "show is getting weird, but we still aren't Lost weird, no magic hatches and polar bears" even as things get increasingly crazy. 

No polar bears, but a mysterious white moose (or two)... 

I hate the concept of some mystery hatch appearing, but that really seems to be the only plausible explanation for Javi being gone for 2 months and returning in good shape.  It doesn't explain him not going back for his brother, or hiding somewhere to join up with him when Travis goes out hunting.  And I really hate the idea people are floating about another community.  Again, it makes no sense.  Anyone else in that area would have heard the multiple gun shots, possibly seen smoke from the cabin or campfire, and it would be weird for that to happen and not have anyone go and check it out.

I agree that they seem to be telegraphing something with the poop in the bucket, the missing bear meat and the mysterious dripping sound.  But it makes no sense for Javi to be in hiding, and somehow come into the cabin unnoticed by anyone, just to poop in a bucket. 

A better plan for moose retrieval would have been to cut a path in the ice and drag it in the water back to shore.  Still no way they could get it out of the water, but they could at least chop of it's head and limbs and go from there. 

I do like Misty and Walter, even though their plot line does nothing for the overall story for me.  But they're fun.  I'm liking Nat and Lottie as adults, and Nat choosing to hang with the purple people.  I think there's a chance Lisa is Shauna's daughter.  The age seems right.  It's possible the baby survived but Shauna's parents felt it was too much of a traumatic reminder, so had Shauna put her up for adoption.  They could have hidden that from the press, if everyone really was on the same page.

I think it's weird that Nat went through the trouble to steal a vase with water, grab the fish from the bowl and hide it in her mouth, instead of just walking out with the whole fish bowl.  But, that scene in the car was hilarious, so I'll take it!

Glad to see adult Van, but Tai's plot line is boring me.

 

[SoMuchTV]

I’m late to the (watch) party and maybe it was addressed before, but how do they have so many coats and other cold weather gear?  I know they’d likely have packed their team jackets and probably some sweats/warmup clothes, but it was May(ish?) and that doesn’t seem like it would account for how much they have. Found some in the cabin? Maybe if I went back and rewatched, I could trace everything back to what they packed or recovered from the passengers who didn’t make it, but it just seems like a lot for kids packing for a few days of soccer games. 

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

I’m late to the (watch) party and maybe it was addressed before, but how do they have so many coats and other cold weather gear?  I know they’d likely have packed their team jackets and probably some sweats/warmup clothes, but it was May(ish?) and that doesn’t seem like it would account for how much they have. Found some in the cabin? Maybe if I went back and rewatched, I could trace everything back to what they packed or recovered from the passengers who didn’t make it, but it just seems like a lot for kids packing for a few days of soccer games. 

There is a coat tree outside the cabin, next to the boot bush. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

I’m late to the (watch) party and maybe it was addressed before, but how do they have so many coats and other cold weather gear?  I know they’d likely have packed their team jackets and probably some sweats/warmup clothes, but it was May(ish?) and that doesn’t seem like it would account for how much they have. Found some in the cabin? Maybe if I went back and rewatched, I could trace everything back to what they packed or recovered from the passengers who didn’t make it, but it just seems like a lot for kids packing for a few days of soccer games. 

 

23 minutes ago, Affogato said:

There is a coat tree outside the cabin, next to the boot bush. 

Where are you seeing a lot of coats and cold weather gear? Some people have jackets that would be fashionable and make sense for teenagers to bring to Seattle in May--like Lottie's rabbit fur jacket--and I think that one plaid coat was in the cabin, but that's about it. Same for some girls bringing 90s-style trend heavy boots. Otherwise they're layering things, sometimes with torn up magazines etc. and started cleaning furs in S1. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by sistermagpie

[SoMuchTV]

16 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

Where are you seeing a lot of coats and cold weather gear? Some people have jackets that would be fashionable and make sense for teenagers to bring to Seattle in May--like Lottie's rabbit fur jacket--and I think that one plaid coat was in the cabin, but that's about it. Same for some girls bringing 90s-style trend heavy boots. Otherwise they're layering things, sometimes with torn up magazines etc. and started cleaning furs in S1. 

Yeah you’re probably right. It just seemed like they had more cold weather gear than I would have expected. I just can’t imagine surviving a winter with just the stuff I would have packed for a few days in the late spring. Not the most hand-wavey thing! 

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Yeah you’re probably right. It just seemed like they had more cold weather gear than I would have expected. I just can’t imagine surviving a winter with just the stuff I would have packed for a few days in the late spring. Not the most hand-wavey thing! 

It does seem odd. I think they are supposed to be scavenging but it seems very sophisticated for them. Teens notoriously underdress for weather, too.  Normal april lows in seattle are 40/45. 

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, Affogato said:

It does seem odd. I think they are supposed to be scavenging but it seems very sophisticated for them. Teens notoriously underdress for weather, too.  Normal april lows in seattle are 40/45. 

But what's sophisticated? If you're cold, it doesn't take much imagination to layer clothing or tie/stuff things around yourself or cut and wrap warmer sweaters around yourself, especially when you've got very little else to do. As athletes they would have layers to put on to be warm when not playing, and any teenager would want to take a cool fur or leather jacket they were fond of for 40/50 degrees. Nobody has anything that's made for freezing temperatures. (In fact, Nat and Travis hilariously trudge through deep snow, sinking on every step, when there's a pair of snowshoes on the porch!)

The most sophisticated outfits they have are in the pilot in the flashforward, where they're also making decoration for themselves, but we see how naturally that comes to them in Doomcoming.