S10:E07: HOAs

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Main topic: HOAs (Home Owner Associations)

Also: WWE Vinca McMahon's new look; response to shooting in Tennessee including expulsion of state legislators; it's Easter, the most terrifying time of the year

Original air date 2023.04.09

[Annber03]

You've got to love (and by "love", I mean, "be incredibly appalled by the sheer gall of") these Tennessee legislators claiming they kicked out those Democratic lawmakers because they might "incite violence" while simultaneously continuing to sit on their hands and do nothing while children get gunned down in schools, and giving incredibly condescending, dismissive comments to students who do show up to protest. And these people have the nerve to go on about how they supposedly care about "the children" when it comes to drag shows or abortion or things of that sort. Shut the fuck up. 

We're not even going to get into the GOP's response as a whole to January 6th and how inciting violence was apparently A-OK then. Spare me the pearl clutching. I hope this pathetic stunt continues to backfire on them in spectacular fashion. 

I just. I don't get it. I do not get why people are digging in their heels so hard on this, why children dying in record numbers as a result of these mass shootings isn't enough to get the needle moving. This is beyond insane and embarrassing and disturbing. What the hell is wrong with this country? 

As for the main topic, every time I've heard stories about HOAs, it always involves them being super ntipicky about how people should decorate their lawns and homes and whatnot, and yeah, no, thank you. That alone would be enough to put me off wanting to be part of one of those, but then the reveal that they can basically trick and rope people into becoming part of an HOA without even being aware of it, and the stuff with the late fees, and all that other nonsense...times like these I'm kind of glad that I live in an apartment instead of a house. I know there's apartment versions of this, too, but luckily that's not the case where I live and that is just fine by me. 

I totally thought John was going to send one of those duck in a banana toys to the woman whose lawn decorations he was commenting on :p.

[possibilities]

I'm well over 35, but I watched this anyway:

https://www.lastsqueaktonight.com/

It's amazing, truly.

I'm grateful we don't seem to have HOAs here. I had no idea they were such a huge thing and that the vast majority of homes are now subjected to one. I am a renter, but if I veer manage to buy a house, I for sure don't want to deal with a HOA.

 

[ahisma]

I’m super grateful to not have another Easter Peeps spot, although some of those bunnies were eeeergh. And yet, the banana duck was even creepier. 

I knew HOAs were awful, but I did not know that state attorney generals could not intervene—that’s horrifying. Between discriminating against government rent subsidies and levying fees beyond “final payment” then buying the house secretly for $4… what a nightmare!

[buttersister]

Condo associations in Illinois follow board rules, but they can't conflict with their declarations and the Illinois Condominium Law.  Condo associations have been successfully sued here for excessive fines. Maybe HOAs of homes are different. 

I could listen to John describe Vince MacMahon all night. What a freak.

[Annber03]

6 minutes ago, buttersister said:

I could listen to John describe Vince MacMahon all night. What a freak.

I genuinely did a double take when I saw that clip of him in that interview. Wow, that was weird. 

[swanpride]

Frankly I have no words anymore when it comes to the topic of gun violence in the US. After parkland I had a spark of hope that something might move in the right direction, but apparently it is more important to protect the right that every crazy has easy access to a gun than to protect children. Speaking from a country in which children go to school on their own, where the schools aren't even completely fenced in never mind having weapon detectors and where the only thing which is trained is what to do in case of a fire alarm. 

I also don't get the concept of a giant Easter Bunny. Easter bunnies are supposed to be cute and fluffy. 

Home owner associations are something I just don't get. I mean, that is a reason why buying a house is preferable over buying an apartment: Because you can't be forced into paying for so called improvements by other people who just happen to have an apartment in the same house. The idea to buy a house and basically buy living under a dictatorship at the same time is just creepy to me. 

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I genuinely did a double take when I saw that clip of him in that interview. Wow, that was weird. 

Yeah, when that clip first started playing, I was wondering who the guy was, and then when I realized it was McMahon, I was trying to decide what happened and why. I was even trying to figure out if anything was the same. French Dracula indeed.

 

3 hours ago, swanpride said:

Home owner associations are something I just don't get. I mean, that is a reason why buying a house is preferable over buying an apartment: Because you can't be forced into paying for so called improvements by other people who just happen to have an apartment in the same house. The idea to buy a house and basically buy living under a dictatorship at the same time is just creepy to me. 

I can see some obvious benefits, like making sure houses don't become eyesores, though that of course can be subjective. But I think we can all agree that HOAs have gotten out of hand. Coincidentally, yesterday I learned from my SIL that their HOA used to use a private company to enforce the rules. I didn't know that. John confirmed it.

One HOA I dealt with issued us citations for trashcans being visible, for grass being too long, for mold on the siding (this was in Houston, so lots of humidity). It was aggravating. Our current HOA seems pretty laid back. We've been here a little over 2 years. I know the HOA rules are extensive, but I can't remember much of them. I assume there's something about trashcans, but we've never been cited, even though one of them is not put away. I do miss our previous neighborhood which had no HOA.

That whole Tennessee story was infuriating. After Sandy Hook I was positive something would be done with gun legislation. How can anything be worse than that.

[Welshman in Ca]

10 hours ago, ahisma said:

 

I knew HOAs were awful, but I did not know that state attorney generals could not intervene—that’s horrifying. Between discriminating against government rent subsidies and levying fees beyond “final payment” then buying the house secretly for $4… what a nightmare!

The thing is you only ever hear about HOAs when some mini dictator is running one rather than a normal sane person. We've lived in a HOA for 3 years now (renting) and we heard from them once via our landlord so being a renter doesn't exempt you from their rules. The writing is on the wall where we live though as the good HOA boss man who lived across the street has left the area & there is a new sheriff in town who seems to get pleasure in wandering around making notes of infractions to send to the homeowners as well as having cars towed without notice. Just as well we're moving as we couldn't afford to bail me out every other week.

[DoctorAtomic]

My parents live on an HOA. The residents are all retired people, so it's not as extreme as what was portrayed here. There are some weird things from time to time, mainly about cutting the grass. I think there's a length limit, like over an inch and you have to cut it. They have a rule about no big dogs, but a lot of people have big dogs. But you can't have cats running around outside. There is a whole deal about xmas displays, but it doesn't seem to get enforced. They're big on the decorations out there. 

I've never seen anyone 'inspecting' anything. 

One time a resident hung the flag upside down and everyone went ballistic. 

 

[swanpride]

Well, imho what is an eyesore and what isn't is really in the eyes of the beholder. For things which are dangerous, aren't there basic rules everyone has to follow? At least that's how it works where I live...if a neighbour thinks another neighbour doesn't follow the rules, they can call the "Ordnungsamt" (literally the office for order), and they will take a look and either take action or deem that no rules are broken. Naturally in general you first simply talk with each other. Yeah, strange concept, I know. 

And regarding the grass cutting: I plan to simply put wild flowers on my front lawn eventually. Less work, better for the environment and I feel better looking, too. I have no idea why so many countries have copied the obsession of the English with controlling nature to such a degree, but I am hopeful that the trend will go in a different direction soon.  

[possibilities]

We don't have a HOA here. But if someone's yard is actually a hazard, you can complain to the Board of Health. And they have due process! You would get asked to do something about it, you would get time to fix it before you got fined or they took forcible action. They don't take your house for godsake, or bankrupt you, over minor issues. And I've only heard of anyone actually needing intervention once. People are just not going to live in squalor if they don't have to. 

God forbid you should have to look at someone else's decorations that you don't like? I mean seriously-- get a life, fascists!

[ShadowKnight2]

I always thought of Vince McMahon as a scumbag. And looking at that clip of him, you can also add greasy slimeball to that!

I'd rather see John Oliver do a much broader story about what's going on in Tennessee right now, because what the Republican controlled legislation is doing right now is anything but democratic. Their gun control debate started because of the mass shooting that took place in a private Christian school in Nashville, a couple of weeks ago. Yet the only thing the GOP politicos were concerned about was that the shooter may have been a trans person, which also ties into their recent attempts at putting trans people under their thumbs. And now, they've added civil rights violations because they went and silenced two African American representatives who were angry at them for not doing anything to stem the tide of gun violence where they live. There's more to that story, and John Oliver isn't doing his viewers any good by condensing it in favor of his main story.

[Enigma X]

The Vince McMahon thing is bizarre, but being bizarre is his brand. I was going to ask if he put in brown contacts, but I just read that his eyes are hazel. He sounds as if he recently had a stroke. I just spent way more time on McMahon than I wanted or needed to.

[andromeda331]

I've had hope since Columbine that they would do something but when they did nothing after Sandy Hook I knew they'd never do anything. It doesn't stop being infuriating. Thousands of kids have been killed in school shootings and nothing has been done. The Tennessee legistlation decide to be more offended by a little shouting from two black politicians then more dead kids. It's nothing new.

I hate HOAs they are horrible. I was always fighting with mine over stupid stuff. When I sold my condo I was so happy to never have to deal wth them again. I loved them wondering how they saw the shed and other stuff. Mine actually went up to the house with a magnifying glass to see tiny chips of paint that had to be repainted and I could only buy paint from one specific store. It was expensive and they had no small paint cans. They also bitched about my tenant leaving her toddler's picnic table on the patio. Who cared? It was my patio and no big deal. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by andromeda331
magnifying glass not microscope.

[Hanahope]

I am sure that the big Easter Bunny costume was created because those companies that sell Santa photos wanted something else to sell.  there were not big easter bunny photo things when i was a kid.

i worked for a company involved with HOA lawsuits decades ago (where an HOA would sue the contractors for defects) and the homeowners had huge HOA fees because they had to pay attorneys.  i swore i'd never live in a place with one, where i had no control over stuff, and i've pretty much kept to that, except for a couple of years i rented a condo in a new state that had one (and it was a PITA then too).  i definitely made sure i didn't buy a house with one.  

when you buy a house, the seller is supposed to disclose there is an HOA, so no one should be surprised by finding out they live in one.  but yeah, people don't realize how much they control and how much power they have.  the only way to really take some power back is to become a member of the hoa board.  i expect that many fines are generated because the hoa board realizes they need more money for something and don't want to raise fees and piss off 100% of the members, so they decide to find things to fine against 10%.  

 

[IvySpice]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:24 PM, possibilities said:

the vast majority of homes are now subjected to one

The vast majority of newly constructed homes, which are a minority of the houses for sale almost everywhere.

I'm not quite as anti-HOA as this episode. I don't doubt that the cases of abuse are real. But there are also a bajillion HOAs mostly facilitating sharing among neighbors, like getting a better price on cable or on landscaping because the whole complex is buying together. I live in a high-rise that has full-time security and maintenance staff, which I could never afford as an individual household. I am planning to buy a home in a drought-stricken region, and I am looking only at units with HOAs, because they make it possible for groups of homes to share a swimming pool instead of each household wasting tons of water on a single-family pool that won't get much use. Unless I missed it, John didn't mention any of these upsides except the theoretical benefit of keeping property values up.

So yeah. Abusive HOAs are really bad. HOAs is general are not necessarily bad.

[swanpride]

Well, his segment was about the power HOA's have, that they basically take over policing from the state and have the right to do so. Sharing maintenance bills is something completely different. 

[wknt3]

On 4/9/2023 at 11:58 PM, Annber03 said:

I totally thought John was going to send one of those duck in a banana toys to the woman whose lawn decorations he was commenting on :p.

I did too. I was totally expecting that the stunt was going to be he was going to send them and pay fines and legal fees. To me that was scarier than any of the actually stated assertions or evidence. I mean the law has to be totally rigged if even LWT's legal team is saying "nah we can't screw with them John"!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

On 4/13/2023 at 5:14 AM, wknt3 said:

I did too. I was totally expecting that the stunt was going to be he was going to send them and pay fines and legal fees. To me that was scarier than any of the actually stated assertions or evidence. I mean the law has to be totally rigged if even LWT's legal team is saying "nah we can't screw with them John"!

I think they may have if the banana ducks were more impressive.  They were too small to be a good FU to the HOA. 

[Lantern7]

Not much I can add. Seeing Chris Parnell play an aggressive asshole was weird, mostly because he voices two of the most beta of males on Archer (Cyril Figgis) and Rick and Morty (Jerry Smith). He got the HOA vibe down. Also loved Cedric Yarbrough getting carried from his house, shouting "Damn, you're strong" at the guys lifting him up, Superman-style.

I'm gong to have to make time to see the Chuck E. Cheese bit. The HOA stuff seemed like fun for even the young to watch . . . especially with John telling us that trees are where squirrels go to "store some nuts and get some fucks." The guy might be easy to bruise, but he's got a way with words.

On 4/13/2023 at 8:14 AM, wknt3 said:

I did too. I was totally expecting that the stunt was going to be he was going to send them and pay fines and legal fees. To me that was scarier than any of the actually stated assertions or evidence. I mean the law has to be totally rigged if even LWT's legal team is saying "nah we can't screw with them John"!

If it was considered, I'm thinking it was taken off the board purely due to the potential overwhelming volume. Corporate Daddy won't give John that much money. Duck/Banana hybrid? That's more reasonable. john could've gotten a hundred thousand of those, and HBO wouldn't have blinked.

Events in Tennessee were appalling, even if John got to hear "cousin-mistress" for the first time.

ETA: Looks like the show is going cold turkey on the anti-Peep campaign. Creepy-looking Easter Bunnies don't measure up.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Lantern7

[peeayebee]

8 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Also loved Cedric Yarbrough getting carried from his house, shouting "Damn, you're strong" at the guys lifting him up, Superman-style.

And one of the guys carrying him almost cracked up.

[Ottis]

Oliver, and this show, is so completely slanted toward whatever point he wants to make that I’m not sure why anyone thinks what he says is more than cherry-picked incidents to “prove” what he says. Most things he covers I don’t have much experience with, so I don't have a comment aside from journalistic observations.

That said, I do have experience owning four houses in three very different states over the years, three of which had HOAs. We made extensive changes to our homes, as well as more routine additions such as fences and a new roof. All of those changes in HOA neighborhoods required HOA review and approval, and in every case we received it, with only one timeliness issue.

Of course, we read the bylaws and info on what was allowed before doing anything, and in a few cases asked questions of the HOA board so we understood parameters (and sometimes they didn't know, and we worked through it together).

The people who had problems with the HOAs? They bought materials or started (or even finished) changes without getting review or approval, and were pissed when they had to redo it. In one case, a family saw no issues with painting their home a near neon yellow, they thought it was pretty. Few others did. The poor people directly across the street said it almost blinded them in full sun. In another, a homeowner who wanted full privacy picked a solid, 6-foot wood fence that blocked sight lines and was expressly prohibited in the bylaws. In another, a cheap homeowner half installed a plain, chainlink fence before the HOA stepped in - it, too, was expressly forbidden in the bylaws and neighbors hated how cheesy it looked. In another, a homeowner wouldn’t trim an overgrown tree that blocked a sidewalk, forcing walkers and kids to move into the street. The HOA finally did it and billed him. We personally witnessed all of those examples, and more.

And THAT is why HOAs are helpful. Of course, Oliver won't cover any of that.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Ottis

[EtheltoTillie]

I live across the street from a very neglected house. The elderly owner died, and the children couldn’t agree about what to do with it for several years. It had overgrown weeds and a tarp on the roof. We called it Gray Gardens. They are finally! getting ready to sell. It’s a definite teardown at this point. Still, I would not want an HOA involved here, because I don’t want them telling me what to do with my house. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[shapeshifter]

I haven't been watching this show regularly, but my daughter and son-in-law let slip that JO did a segment on HOAs.
They avoided looking me in the eye while they mumbled apologies for having not known about HOAs when they were trying to convince me they were a good thing, then quickly advised me not to watch this episode, and changed the subject.
So, of course, I watched it. 
He didn't address my particular issues (😤😠) which are miniscule in comparison to the horrible injustices outlined in the episode, nevertheless, thank you, John.

Edited April 24, 2023 by shapeshifter