Chit-Chat: What's On Your Mind Today?

[Mindthinkr]

Some men get this from their fathers. So they view it as normal. It would make me uncomfortable too. Perhaps you should start with that. His chatting inappropriately is making you uncomfortable. This is a work place. Not a bar or somewhere else where it wouldn’t be so out of place. 

[RealHousewife]

 

4 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Some men get this from their fathers. So they view it as normal. It would make me uncomfortable too. Perhaps you should start with that. His chatting inappropriately is making you uncomfortable. This is a work place. Not a bar or somewhere else where it wouldn’t be so out of place. 

Thank you. I literally told him he can chat however he wants with his buddies at a bar, but he should watch it around women and at work. 

I feel like I go back and forth between trying not to be this uptight prude, and then feeling like I'm too lenient and allow stuff that's considered harassment slide. 

I've had a lot of negative experiences with male coworkers. People always talk about women and the drama, and sure, that happens. But my personal experience has been men cause the most drama and discomfort.  

[Mindthinkr]

2 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

 

Thank you. I literally told him he can chat however he wants with his buddies at a bar, but he should watch it around women and at work. 

I feel like I go back and forth between trying not to be this uptight prude, and then feeling like I'm too lenient and allow stuff that's considered harassment slide. 

I've had a lot of negative experiences with male coworkers. People always talk about women and the drama, and sure, that happens. But my personal experience has been men cause the most drama and discomfort.  

You should not have to feel uncomfortable in your work situation because a male engages in colorful discussions about women and sex. It’s really a HR problem although I would understand your not wanting to take it to them for many reasons. He probably feels as though he’s gotten away with it for so long that it has never mattered to you. You may need to spell that out. I hope he doesn’t make work harder for you. 🧸

[peacheslatour]

6 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

 

Thank you. I literally told him he can chat however he wants with his buddies at a bar, but he should watch it around women and at work. 

I feel like I go back and forth between trying not to be this uptight prude, and then feeling like I'm too lenient and allow stuff that's considered harassment slide. 

I've had a lot of negative experiences with male coworkers. People always talk about women and the drama, and sure, that happens. But my personal experience has been men cause the most drama and discomfort.  

Don't stress. Next time you see him, smile your biggest smile and hold your head high. Make eye contact.  That's what I've always done and for some reason, it intimidates  the living shit out of them. You did nothing wrong.

[annzeepark914]

He's lucky HR hasn't been on his case. He could easily lose his job for all this sex talk in front of co-workers. You should not allow any man to talk this way in front of you. 

[partofme]

I know you think he’s a nice guy at heart, but from what you’ve said, I think he’s a creep.   He’s definitely in violation of HR policies at most companies, it’s not okay to discuss sex in the office at all.  

[Laura Holt]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

You did nothing wrong.

Men who act like that always count on women feeling they've somehow done something wrong.  And all too often women do feel that way.  If he doesn't stop he needs to be getting a call from HR.

[emma675]

@RealHousewife I think you should post this in the Work thread here. We have several posters who work in HR and could give you some good advice.

[kristen111]

FYI .. “The Guilded Age” series is coming back for its second season tomorrow night (Sunday) HBO 9 p.m.    All about N.Y.C. In the eighteen hundreds.

 

 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Anyone have comforting words for me?…
He got upset with me yesterday, and I dread dealing with him next week.…

He may just have felt free to get mad at you on a Friday knowing you'd both have the weekend to cool off. 
Plus, if he's that kind of guy (runs his mouth spouting crude crap) he most likely really expects you to act like nothing happened by Monday.

I wish I was there to give him an icy cold piece of my grandmotherly mind.

You should feel free to at least play it cool with him, that is, only communicating about essentials.
If the workplace Powers That Be tolerate his behavior, and if he likes being crude (and probably worthless) there's not anything else you can do.
You tried to enlighten him. He prefers the dark. 
Unless maybe try again in a few months if you think he might be open to becoming a better person or at least a better communicator?
At least he's not pretending to be Mr. Nice Guy when he's really just a creep.

[kristen111]

On 10/22/2023 at 1:40 PM, oliviabenson said:

Adblock sucks lol. It works on this site. Other sites not too happy with. 
 

 

Now that I have Adblock,some sites asked me to unblock so they can show their advertisements.  WTH?

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Now that I have Adblock,some sites asked me to unblock so they can show their advertisements.  WTH?

Directly below the request to unblock their ads,
in fine print it should say something like: Or continue to the site without supporting us. 

[kristen111]

I think people are going nuts with over the top holidays because they are depressed with what’s going on in the world today.  A war, plus inflation.  They will do whatever it takes to make themselves happy again.  Thus, over spending and outrageous holidays.  It makes them feel a little bit better.  Just my opinion.

[kristen111]

48 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Anyone have comforting words for me?

Sorry up there.  Pressed the wrong thingy. 🤷‍♂️

[oliviabenson]

43 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Now that I have Adblock,some sites asked me to unblock so they can show their advertisements.  WTH?

Yeah that’s an issue… I block and unblock all day. 

[Laura Holt]

2 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Sorry up there.  Pressed the wrong thingy. 🤷‍♂️

 

I'm not sure if you want to edit but if you do all you need to do is click on the 3 dots in the top right corner of your post and choose edit.  It is the rare post of mine where I don't end up editing it for spelling, grammar or something or another!

[peacheslatour]

Oh wow. I was not expecting this.

 

 

Matthew Perry -- one of the stars of 'Friends' -- has died ... TMZ has learned.

Law enforcement sources tell us the actor was found Saturday at an L.A.-area home ... where we're told he appears to have drowned. Our sources say first-responders rushed over on a call for cardiac arrest. It's unclear where exactly on the grounds this happened.

Our sources say he was found in a jacuzzi at the home ... and we're told there were no drugs found at the scene. We're also told there is no foul play involved.

[kristen111]

1 minute ago, Laura Holt said:

 

I'm not sure if you want to edit but if you do all you need to do is click on the 3 dots in the top right corner of your post and choose edit.  It is the rare post of mine where I don't end up editing it for spelling, grammar or something or another!

It was the wrong person, but thanks.

2 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh wow. I was not expecting this.

 

 

Matthew Perry -- one of the stars of 'Friends' -- has died ... TMZ has learned.

Law enforcement sources tell us the actor was found Saturday at an L.A.-area home ... where we're told he appears to have drowned. Our sources say first-responders rushed over on a call for cardiac arrest. It's unclear where exactly on the grounds this happened.

Our sources say he was found in a jacuzzi at the home ... and we're told there were no drugs found at the scene. We're also told there is no foul play involved.

Oh Geeze.  I love his movies. 

[JustHereForFood]

4 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Anyone have comforting words for me? I got into an argument with a guy friend from work. I like the guy and think he's good at heart, but I called him out on the way he speaks around women in the office not being gentlemanly or appropriate. He likes to bring up boobs, butts, Playboy, his sex life, stuff that I don't think is respectful to us. (He dials it back around certain people but has always been crude around me.) I've also told him the way he talks will run off nice women. He's been with several women who've been crazy and/or cheated on him. (He's also admitted to cheating but makes excuse for it.) I think because he puts out the  vibe that he's all about sex, he is going to attract women who are mutually all about sex. He had excuses of everything-that he was going through a rough time when he said this, that he was just joking around when he said that, that since we're friends he thought it was cool to say that, that this particular woman dressed this way so he said that, that this woman who spoke about that way treated him like that, yet he insists those weren't excuses when I said they were excuses. 

He got upset with me yesterday, and I dread dealing with him next week. I've known him for quite awhile , and it's not the first time we've been candid or I told him I don't like the way he speaks. But he got really offended this time. I'm always leery of becoming friends with anyone in the office, but sometimes it just happens. There are people I go back with for several years now, have to interact with a ton, travel with, etc. Sometimes you develop somewhat of a bond and can see the good in them even if they have sides you don't think are pretty. I am going to try to be better about maintaining boundaries and minimizing any chat that's not work-related, but I sure miss when I could just work remotely every day. 

Good for you for saying that. Did you call him out in front of other people or just the two of you? If there were others, I hope that someone supported your opinion in front of him. I remember how it sucked the few times I tried to call out someone at work over racist/sexist/homophobic rhetoric with nobody backing me up. Just made me less likely to bother next time. And then when someone told me in private that they basically agreed with me, I was even more angry because that is something they should be saying in front of others, if they kept quiet then, they might as well stay quiet for all I care.

[kristen111]

3 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Good for you for saying that. Did you call him out in front of other people or just the two of you? If there were others, I hope that someone supported your opinion in front of him. I remember how it sucked the few times I tried to call out someone at work over racist/sexist/homophobic rhetoric with nobody backing me up. Just made me less likely to bother next time. And then when someone told me in private that they basically agreed with me, I was even more angry because that is something they should be saying in front of others, if they kept quiet then, they might as well stay quiet for all I care.

Tell him your boyfriend doesn’t appreciate the way he is talking to you.

[theredhead77]

57 minutes ago, kristen111 said:

Tell him your boyfriend doesn’t appreciate the way he is talking to you.

No one should have to appear to be the property of another to be treated with respect. In addition to that, potential repercussions (such as escalation in harassment, or violence) for lying about being the property of another to get an unstable harasser or predator to leave you alone are not worth the risk.

2 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Now that I have Adblock,some sites asked me to unblock so they can show their advertisements.  WTH?

Websites use ads to bring in revenue and ad-blockers prevent that.

[Gramto6]

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

Websites use ads to bring in revenue and ad-blockers prevent that.

Yes, and as @shapeshifter  said, click on the tiny sentence on their screen that you want to continue w/out donation and the note disappears.

I only have one site I unblock briefly. It is the Diabetes forum I moderate.  We have an Amazon link that if we purchase through that, the forum gets a small % of the purchase. I unblock to purchase and then block after. That is the only "ad" on the forum.  All the rest I just click on I don't want to donate.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Gramto6

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Websites use ads to bring in revenue and ad-blockers prevent that.

57 minutes ago, Gramto6 said:

Yes, and as @shapeshifter  said, click on the tiny sentence on their screen that you want to continue w/out donation and the note disappears.

I only have one site I unblock briefly

If I'm visiting a website for the first time, I click the fine print to bypass the ads.
If it's a site I visit regularly and I deem worthy of support, and then, only *if* the ads are not videos that jump around, I will turn off the ad blocker.

 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

he was found in a jacuzzi at the home ... and we're told there were no drugs found at the scene. We're also told there is no foul play involved.

Matthew Perry dying at 54 today was shocking, even though he's looked unhealthy for a long time. 
Coincidentally, today I was looking at a couple of indoor swimming places near my daughter's and, even though I'd never use a public hot tub, the very large lettered warning on it to not use the hot tub if you have heart conditions etc. was impossible not to see.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Tell him your boyfriend doesn’t appreciate the way he is talking to you.

That OP won't abide the inappropriate things the offender is saying in the workplace is enough, there's no need for her to invent a mythical man holding a non-existent proprietary position to justify her objection.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Bastet

[kristen111]

10 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Websites use ads to bring in revenue and ad-blockers prevent that.

Yes.  I was ordering a hoodie for my Grandson on a College Bookstore website.  Thanks.  Who knew?  So, I guess you have to keep blocking and unblocking?  I’m new to this.

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

That OP won't abide the inappropriate things the offender is saying in the workplace is enough, there's no need for her to invent a mythical man holding a non-existent proprietary position to justify her objection.

Ok .. I get it.  Thanks.

[shapeshifter]

13 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Tell him your boyfriend doesn’t appreciate the way he is talking to you.

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

That OP won't abide the inappropriate things the offender is saying in the workplace is enough, there's no need for her to invent a mythical man holding a non-existent proprietary position to justify her objection.

1 hour ago, kristen111 said:

Ok .. I get it.  Thanks.

Also:
As a 70-year-old, still trim woman who has lived all but 8 years of my life as a single female, I can assure you that any verbal retort you might use to make a harasser stop will just be turned around by him and used as a weapon to gaslight you. 

For example:
The day after I got home to my apartment after an emergency C-section with my first baby, a young man with a disarming smile knocked on my door and tried to convince me to let him in.
I was still too weak and sleep deprived to realize I didn't need to do anything but close the door in his face.
He shot down all the reasons I gave for why it was not a good time (like recovering from major abdominal surgery).

When I said "I'm more into being an artist," he replied "I don't think you're much of anything"
— which finally motivated me to close the door in his face.
[Interesting that he became insulting when he realized I had a sense of self-worth.]

@RealHousewife, closing the door in the face of a predator is your best defense. 
And someone who uses irrelevant innuendos in every conversation is a predator. Make no mistake about that.

Sadly, a year after I closed the door on that seemingly harmless predator in 1979, he wormed his way into another single-parent friend's apartment and raped her.

I didn't even realize the bullet I'd dodged until she told me about her experience.

Whatever you do, @RealHousewife, make sure you are not alone with him. 
I'm sorry to say that your story above sounds like he is grooming you.

Edited October 29, 2023 by shapeshifter

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Also:
As a 70-year-old, still trim woman who has lived all but 8 years of my life as a single female, I can assure you that any verbal retort you might use to make a harasser stop will just be turned around by him and used as a weapon to gaslight you. 

For example:
The day after I got home to my apartment after an emergency C-section with my first baby, a young man with a disarming smile knocked on my door and tried to convince me to let him in.
I was still too weak and sleep deprived to realize I didn't need to do anything but close the door in his face.
He shot down all the reasons I gave for why it was not a good time (like recovering from major abdominal surgery).

When I said "I'm more into being an artist," he replied "I don't think you're much of anything"
— which finally motivated me to close the door in his face.
[Interesting that he became insulting when he realized I had a sense of self-worth.]

@RealHousewife, closing the door in the face of a predator is your best defense. 
And someone who uses irrelevant innuendos in every conversation is a predator. Make no mistake about that.

Sadly, a year after I closed the door on that seemingly harmless predator in 1979, he wormed his way into another single-parent friend's apartment and raped her.

I didn't even realize the bullet I'd dodged until she told me about her experience.

Whatever you do, @RealHousewife, make sure you are not alone with him. 
I'm sorry to say that your story above sounds like he is grooming you.

Thank you and everyone else so much for your input. I did wonder if the reason he was so upset this time is because I said the way he talks only attracts crazy women and that he'd run off anyone nice. He seemed pretty pissed I wouldn't date him.  I used to think if he found me attractive he wouldn't talk to me or around me like I'm "one of the guys," but he's recently said stuff that leads me to believe otherwise. I hate thinking so negatively about someone I've known to be kind at times, have known for so long, who's been very helpful to me at work and that I always wanted to believe was harmless despite his mouth. I now question the sincerity of anything positive, and I think this time I really am going to talk to HR or someone about it. I shouldn't have to deal with tension in the workplace. I have dealt with someone who was really cruel to me every day at work because I wouldn't date him, and he's one of the few whose mouth was like this guy's. 

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Also:
As a 70-year-old, still trim woman who has lived all but 8 years of my life as a single female, I can assure you that any verbal retort you might use to make a harasser stop will just be turned around by him and used as a weapon to gaslight you. 

For example:
The day after I got home to my apartment after an emergency C-section with my first baby, a young man with a disarming smile knocked on my door and tried to convince me to let him in.
I was still too weak and sleep deprived to realize I didn't need to do anything but close the door in his face.
He shot down all the reasons I gave for why it was not a good time (like recovering from major abdominal surgery).

When I said "I'm more into being an artist," he replied "I don't think you're much of anything"
— which finally motivated me to close the door in his face.
[Interesting that he became insulting when he realized I had a sense of self-worth.]

@RealHousewife, closing the door in the face of a predator is your best defense. 
And someone who uses irrelevant innuendos in every conversation is a predator. Make no mistake about that.

Sadly, a year after I closed the door on that seemingly harmless predator in 1979, he wormed his way into another single-parent friend's apartment and raped her.

I didn't even realize the bullet I'd dodged until she told me about her experience.

Whatever you do, @RealHousewife, make sure you are not alone with him. 
I'm sorry to say that your story above sounds like he is grooming you.

Wow! Was he arrested and sent to prison? That is horrid. I rarely open the door when I'm alone (& even when I'm not alone). How do some little boys grow up to be rapists? What happened to Ted Bundy, a bright, young man on his way to becoming a lawyer? And then there are the monstrous dictators. They were all once little boys. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

Wow! Was he arrested and sent to prison?

Nope. Neither was the predator I identified and from whom I escaped in the early 70s. The cops said it was a he said/she said thing. I'm sure he had already raped and killed women and continued to do so. But he operated as a Canadian citizen, driving his prey deep into rural Michigan. 

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

How do some little boys grow up to be rapists? What happened to Ted Bundy, a bright, young man on his way to becoming a lawyer? And then there are the monstrous dictators. They were all once little boys. 

Mental illness combined with abuse, is my guess.
For example, Saddam Hussein's childhood.

I have a daughter who is very vocal about all imprisonment being wrong, but when I tell her the tales of my youth, she has nothing to say.

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by shapeshifter

[theredhead77]

2 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Thank you and everyone else so much for your input. I did wonder if the reason he was so upset this time is because I said the way he talks only attracts crazy women and that he'd run off anyone nice. He seemed pretty pissed I wouldn't date him.  I used to think if he found me attractive he wouldn't talk to me or around me like I'm "one of the guys," but he's recently said stuff that leads me to believe otherwise. I hate thinking so negatively about someone I've known to be kind at times, have known for so long, who's been very helpful to me at work and that I always wanted to believe was harmless despite his mouth. I now question the sincerity of anything positive, and I think this time I really am going to talk to HR or someone about it. I shouldn't have to deal with tension in the workplace. I have dealt with someone who was really cruel to me every day at work because I wouldn't date him, and he's one of the few whose mouth was like this guy's. 

When you report this, because at this point, you have no choice if this is the same guy you've been lamenting about, only talk about how it is inappropriate in the work place and how it impacts you, at work, at work functions, etc... Clearly state that you clearly asked him to stop, you left no room for misinterpretation that you were OK with this topic, yet he persists. You shouldn't have to ask him to stop, because it shouldn't be in the work place, you shouldn't have to ask him to stop before reporting but since you did, you should call that out. Don't speak on behalf of anyone else and keep in mind your thoughts on this type of conversation outside the workplace are irrelevant. 

[BlueSkies]

Education is a good thing.

 

But I tend to think too much book education leads to too much abstract/ivory tower trains of thought 

[isalicat]

1 hour ago, BlueSkies said:

Education is a good thing.

 

But I tend to think too much book education leads to too much abstract/ivory tower trains of thought 

Huh? How much is "too much"? I have lots of friends with Ph.D.s that don't think abstractly much at all (they are engineers and scientists, and very much grounded in physical reality). People are people, whatever their level of "book education" - many are incapable of common sense whether they have read a lot of books or not (see: my brother-in-law).

[BlueSkies]

19 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Huh? How much is "too much"? I have lots of friends with Ph.D.s that don't think abstractly much at all (they are engineers and scientists, and very much grounded in physical reality). People are people, whatever their level of "book education" - many are incapable of common sense whether they have read a lot of books or not (see: my brother-in-law).

When it skews one's thought process when that's how they form all their opinions/reactions.  

 

Like for example I was witness at work to someone in their 50's dying of cancer.  Book education doesn't teach one how to manage that or what to tell someone, etc....  

 

I'm not anti education at all.  Just dont think its the end all be all 

[JustHereForFood]

19 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

No one should have to appear to be the property of another to be treated with respect. In addition to that, potential repercussions (such as escalation in harassment, or violence) for lying about being the property of another to get an unstable harasser or predator to leave you alone are not worth the risk.

I suppose in some cases it can help, but I'm thinking more about emergencies with a complete stranger, not a situation like the above when it's an ongoing problem with someone familiar. My mother once had to deal with a taxi driver at night who started to have inappropriate comments and she got him to let her go by telling him that her husband is a cop and has means to find him.

[kristen111]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

I suppose in some cases it can help, but I'm thinking more about emergencies with a complete stranger, not a situation like the above when it's an ongoing problem with someone familiar. My mother once had to deal with a taxi driver at night who started to have inappropriate comments and she got him to let her go by telling him that her husband is a cop and has means to find him.

So true in some cases.  I was spoken inappropriately by an Engineer while taking dictation at my work place years ago.  Everytime.  When I finally told him my boyfriend was getting annoyed, he stopped cold, never to say anything anymore.  Then again, every case is different and people are different.  You really don’t know what these jerks are about.  It could be dangerous or not.

Edited October 29, 2023 by kristen111

[Ancaster]

22 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

 

I'm not sure if you want to edit but if you do all you need to do is click on the 3 dots in the top right corner of your post and choose edit.  It is the rare post of mine where I don't end up editing it for spelling, grammar or something or another!

I edit all the time too!  I just wish you could out and out delete a post.  I don't know what reason there could be not to allow it.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

this time I really am going to talk to HR

When going to HR about any problem, I have been told it is crucial to bring documentation of days, times, situations, words said, things observed, etc. 
Without documentation, your HR person could still believe you, but would not be able to take action.

But you could still go to HR and explain this is a long-standing, ongoing problem, and you'd like to know what documentation you need to gather.

Perhaps others could verify this or elaborated upon it.

 

++++++++

 

48 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

I just wish you could out and out delete a post.  I don't know what reason there could be not to allow it.

It's probably just a technical issue, such as allowing deletions might also disable a popular feature or requiring turning off an important security protection. 

But any time I've replaced a post with something like the word "deleted" or the snazzier "nothing to see here," a mod will eventually delete it.

 

+++++++++

 

4 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

Education is a good thing.
But I tend to think too much book education leads to too much abstract/ivory tower trains of thought 

2 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

I'm not anti education at all.  Just dont think its the end all be all 

For some people education is their reason to live, especially teachers. For others their "be all end all" is their pets; for others it's their religion; for others it's their kids; for others it's playing music; etc. etc.

I did grow up in a family where education was important. But my much wealthier sister never finished college and I didn't until my 30s and 40s. I have a Masters of Library Science which I got specifically to increase my income and opportunities to get a new job if necessary in order to support my children. I managed to get my MLS for just $9K in 1999. I would have studied something else if it wasn't just to build on my already established work résumé.

But something about "too much book education leads to too much abstract/ivory tower trains of thought" makes me feel offended, if not attacked — even though I don't think you are necessarily wrong.
Maybe this is how my dog-owning daughter and son-in-law feel when I react negatively to being jumped on by their dog because "he's so happy to see you!"
🤷🏻‍♀️

Edited October 30, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Ancaster]

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

 

 

For some people education is their reason to live, especially teachers. For others their "be all end all" is their pets; for others it's their religion; for others it's their kids; for others it's playing music; etc. etc.

I did grow up in a family where education was important. But my much wealthier sister never finished college and I didn't until my 30s and 40s. I have a Masters of Library Science which I got specifically to increase my income and opportunities to get a new job if necessary in order to support my children. I managed to get my MLS for just $9K in 1999. I would have studied something else if it wasn't just to build on my already established work résumé.

But something about "too much book education leads to too much abstract/ivory tower trains of thought" makes me feel offended, if not attacked — even though I don't think you are necessarily wrong.
Maybe this is how my dog-owning daughter and son-in-law feel when I react negatively to being jumped on by their dog because "he's so happy to see you!"
🤷🏻‍♀️

I share your offense at the idea of having "too much education", but I wouldn't equate it with being jumped on by a dog.  I was chased and bitten by a dog when I was a little girl and I am very wary around them.  A dog owner who allows their dog to jump on someone should not be a pet owner.  There, I said it.

[theredhead77]

5 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

Education is a good thing.

But I tend to think too much book education leads to too much abstract/ivory tower trains of thought 

 

3 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

When it skews one's thought process when that's how they form all their opinions/reactions.   

Counterpoint: not enough education leads to an entire populous or demographic with underdeveloped critical thinking skills which leads to insane trains of thought such as: a test of the emergency broadcast system will turn anyone who received the COVID vaccination into zombies, or, the COVID vaccination contains micro-chips to track people, or the COVID vaccination contains 5G chips, or... and I could literally go on for quite sometime listing all the ridiculous beliefs and behaviors that come from not having developed critical thinking skills.

3 hours ago, BlueSkies said:

Like for example I was witness at work to someone in their 50's dying of cancer.  Book education doesn't teach one how to manage that or what to tell someone, etc....  

Education sure does, if you're in a medical or hospice setting. The rest of us just have to try to get by the best we can using our empathy and community.

Edited October 30, 2023 by theredhead77

[BlueSkies]

28 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

 

Counterpoint: not enough education leads to an entire populous or demographic with underdeveloped critical thinking skills which leads to insane trains of thought such as: a test of the emergency broadcast system will turn anyone who received the COVID vaccination into zombies, or, the COVID vaccination contains micro-chips to track people, or the COVID vaccination contains 5G chips, or... and I could literally go on for quite sometime listing all the ridiculous beliefs and behaviors that come from not having developed critical thinking skills.

Education sure does, if you're in a medical or hospice setting. The rest of us just have to try to get by the best we can using our empathy and community.

I never said education was a bad thing.

 

You just need moderation in everything.  

[Mondrianyone]

22 minutes ago, BlueSkies said:

You just need moderation in everything.

So it's good to be moderately stupid?

[theredhead77]

24 minutes ago, BlueSkies said:

I never said education was a bad thing.

 

You just need moderation in everything.  

Some people can be highly educated but not others? Who should be making those decisions? Oh, sorry, society has enough people with a PhD, you can't continue with your education? Oh, sorry, we have too many scientists, you need to be a welder?

[BlueSkies]

20 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Some people can be highly educated but not others? Who should be making those decisions? Oh, sorry, society has enough people with a PhD, you can't continue with your education? Oh, sorry, we have too many scientists, you need to be a welder?

You’re completely twisting my words.

 

I’m done with this conversation.  Have a nice evening 

[Suzn]

The discussion about education has all been about formal education that results in diplomas and certifications.  I think it is important for people to continue educating themselves all of their lives.  That means pursuing whatever is interesting, useful and thought provoking.  What that's meant for me is that I know a great deal about a few things and little bit about many things.

I want to add that I don't think that education gets in way of common sense.

[emma675]

I wish my brain was still up for higher education, if that makes sense. I feel like the older I get, the less I'm able to learn and retain large amounts of new information. In college, I could study  apply, and regurgitate multiple subjects that were brand new to me with no problems. Now I'm lucky if I remember why I walked into a room, lol.

But seriously, I would love to learn a second language or study Egyptian history. 

[Laura Holt]

6 minutes ago, emma675 said:

I wish my brain was still up for higher education, if that makes sense. I feel like the older I get, the less I'm able to learn and retain large amounts of new information.

My mother went back to university after she became an empty nester and finally was able to take the subjects she would have taken if she'd had the chance when she was younger.  She loved it.  But I admit I'm like you.  I am done with school. I got as far as my masters and that's as far as I intend to go.  The idea of studying, writing papers and being graded does not appeal!

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

The idea of studying, writing papers and being graded does not appeal!

You can audit college courses for which you are not graded — but you would have to pay tuition unless, perhaps, you are an employee of the college.

I neglected to take Spanish language courses during the 19 years I was a college librarian. Since I'm often awake at night, maybe I could listen to one of those apps. But now that I'm retired, it doesn't seem worth the effort.

I do still like to learn things, but mostly I just look at YouTube videos. But I suspect that a lot of them are not sources of good information. For instance, I cringe when I see demonstrations of stretching watercolor paper in which the "expert" wipes off water from the surface, which can remove the sizing — and without sizing, the paper becomes a blotter that soaks up the paint such that the paint cannot sit on top of the paper, so, for instance, tiny tree branches are blurry instead of crisp.

[oliviabenson]

1 hour ago, emma675 said:

I wish my brain was still up for higher education, if that makes sense. I feel like the older I get, the less I'm able to learn and retain large amounts of new information. In college, I could study  apply, and regurgitate multiple subjects that were brand new to me with no problems. Now I'm lucky if I remember why I walked into a room, lol.

But seriously, I would love to learn a second language or study Egyptian history. 

Same here. My brain feels like Swiss cheese lol. My memory and trying to retain information is awful.

[JustHereForFood]

13 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Counterpoint: not enough education leads to an entire populous or demographic with underdeveloped critical thinking skills which leads to insane trains of thought such as: a test of the emergency broadcast system will turn anyone who received the COVID vaccination into zombies, or, the COVID vaccination contains micro-chips to track people, or the COVID vaccination contains 5G chips, or... and I could literally go on for quite sometime listing all the ridiculous beliefs and behaviors that come from not having developed critical thinking skills.

Also, lack of education in general, or lack of education specifically for girls often results in overpopulation and terrible conditions for children, not to mention a terrible track for human rights in general and for women and girls specifically. Not that I think the OP was meant in this way.

I agree that in some cases having a degree might seem like a waste, especially if it's done just for the sake of getting a degree and not because the person is interested in the subject or plans a career in that field. Everyone is different and some people can thrive in academic environment, some in manual work like carpentry or agriculture. We need all of them, after all. What is important, IMO, is that children and teenagers and even adults who are inclined to switch profession have enough opportunities to choose depending on their own strengths and skills without any unnecessary snobbery against either of those options. (Not that I've seen any here.)