S44.E06: Survivor with a Capital S

[meep.meep]

I completely agree that Carolyn's inability to connect socially is on her.  And I question the Three Stooges alliance if they didn't tell her they were voting for Josh.  She was the only one to vote for Kane and so knows she's out of the loop.

Her beef with Brandon and David (?) macho manning out and ignoring her at their meetup is totally legit however.  When three people are present and two of them ignore the remaining one, it's hard not to see it as deliberate.  Not getting your point across in a group of 6 exited people at the merge feast is on her.

I don't see her as a fantastic player.  If you can never convince anyone of what you're saying, that's somewhat on you.  Maybe they're giving us the reverse-Gabler edit because she can't be perceived as anything other than a goat by the rest of the players.

[eel21788]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

To bring this back to Josh, granted that his attempt to hide his job was clumsy and maybe unnecessary (as many are on this show),  and his gameplay in general was suspect...

I really have to wonder why he didn't play his Shot in the Dark. He seemed to know he was being targeted, and it wasn't going to be a situation where his own vote was going to make any big difference.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

I really have to wonder why he didn't play his Shot in the Dark. He seemed to know he was being targeted, and it wasn't going to be a situation where his own vote was going to make any big difference.

I was going to say that with the glut of gimmicks, maybe he forgot about it - but surely a producer would have brought up the possibility during a confessional sit-down. Just more of his bad read of his place in the game, I guess. Still didn't realize he had completely lost his old tribe before he even switched, and thought he had more votes on his side than he did.

Or this:

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by tracyscott76
Adding info from Josh's interview

[eel21788]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

I was going to say that with the glut of gimmicks, maybe he forgot about it - but surely a producer would have brought up the possibility during a confessional sit-down. Just more of his bad read of his place in the game, I guess. Still didn't realize he had completely lost his old tribe before he even switched, and thought he had more votes on his side than he did.

Or this:

 

I can't stand it that now he says he should have played the Illness Card. That would have immediately made me root for his demise.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Regarding the Survivor "showmances" it always grosses me out when the couples hug each other tightly and snuggle together. I'm in my living room thinking how bad they must smell and how bad their breath must be. Yuck. 

From what I understand they actually don't smell that bad. They spend a lot of time in the ocean and they aren't eating anything to speak of.

Quote

I didn't have an issue with the merge feast people not jumping on Carolyn's info as the driver of their plan.

She didn't really articulate very well why she knew Josh had a fake idol. She said Yam Yam called him out for getting it from tree mail but she didn't actually describe what it looked like and how it broke apart and how they knew for sure it was a fake. On top of that it's entirely possible Josh could have found another real one since then. Frankly I'm shocked he didn't, I half expected him to pull one out of his bag at the last minute. How often have players conveniently "discovered" idols right before tribal when they need them the most?

[lilysmom]

I didn't notice anyone else commenting on this, so maybe I just imagined this. During the voting, I thought that the camera focused on one particular chess piece for a longer than usual amount of time. I wonder if there is a hidden idol or power underneath? Did anyone else notice this or should I start going to bed earlier? 

[Angeltoes]

This episode had one of my big annoyances.  As Josh was leaving tribal, someone yelled,"Love you, Josh!"  Get outta here, you do not love him as you've known him for less than two weeks.  I've had friendly neighbors for years that I don't even consider telling them that I love them.  It's one of my pet peeves in life that our current culture throws that word around like birdseed at a wedding.

Egad, I'm expecting to see "Matt Loves Frannie" carved into a tree.

[IdEatThat]

What a snoozefest.  Puzzles I’ve seen multiple times before done by people I don’t recognize.  Rinse.  Repeat.   I miss old survivor where there was character development and interesting challenges.   This just strikes me as lazy production.   Blech.

[Skooma]

6 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I completely agree that Carolyn's inability to connect socially is on her.  And I question the Three Stooges alliance if they didn't tell her they were voting for Josh.  She was the only one to vote for Kane and so knows she's out of the loop.

Her beef with Brandon and David (?) macho manning out and ignoring her at their meetup is totally legit however.  When three people are present and two of them ignore the remaining one, it's hard not to see it as deliberate.  Not getting your point across in a group of 6 exited people at the merge feast is on her.

I don't see her as a fantastic player.  If you can never convince anyone of what you're saying, that's somewhat on you.  Maybe they're giving us the reverse-Gabler edit because she can't be perceived as anything other than a goat by the rest of the players.

I think maybe she voted for Kane in case Josh did find a last minute idol.  As I recall she looked surprised about the votes for Yam Yam so maybe it was a surprise to all Three Stooges even though Carson tried to ineptly "save" Kane earlier.  It still doesn't mean he didn't think Kane was still Plan B as well.  He just wouldn't want to write down Kane's name himself.

Be interesting to find out some future time in interviews.  But by then I will have forgotten this vote and won't care anyway, haha.

[violet and green]

6 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I completely agree that Carolyn's inability to connect socially is on her.

She connected with Bruce, before his untimely exit. She connected and remains connected with YamYam, and with Carson - who chose to side with her and YY instead of his other alliance with Helen and Sarah, as he connected more with her.

She was wisely dialled down for the premerge/all tribes on the beach, and mostly watching. I don't see her as the sort to do the fake social schmoozing, in any case.

She "didn't connect" with Danny and Brandon as they were deliberately excluding her in their bro-down. And she was discounted and dismissed when she offered inside info on Josh's idol situation, during the merge feast of six - during which she was again dialled down. 

I see no inability to socially connect in any of the above. Being dismissed, underestimated, discounted is another thing, and it's on the others. A bit like some of Gabler's tribe... She has also successfully downplayed her status as an intelligent observer and player of the game, at other times. If she was sitting off in a little selfmade hut to the side of the new merged tribe in a few episodes' time, then that would perhaps be different.

[blackwing]

11 hours ago, violet and green said:

She connected with Bruce, before his untimely exit. She connected and remains connected with YamYam, and with Carson - who chose to side with her and YY instead of his other alliance with Helen and Sarah, as he connected more with her.

She was wisely dialled down for the premerge/all tribes on the beach, and mostly watching. I don't see her as the sort to do the fake social schmoozing, in any case.

She "didn't connect" with Danny and Brandon as they were deliberately excluding her in their bro-down. And she was discounted and dismissed when she offered inside info on Josh's idol situation, during the merge feast of six - during which she was again dialled down. 

I see no inability to socially connect in any of the above. Being dismissed, underestimated, discounted is another thing, and it's on the others. A bit like some of Gabler's tribe... She has also successfully downplayed her status as an intelligent observer and player of the game, at other times. If she was sitting off in a little selfmade hut to the side of the new merged tribe in a few episodes' time, then that would perhaps be different.

I think the main reason why people aren't connecting with her, or she is perceiving that people aren't connecting with her, is that she is strange.  She seems all over the place, making random outbursts and weird observations.  She reminds me a lot of Noura Salmon.

16 hours ago, eel21788 said:

I can't stand it that now he says he should have played the Illness Card. That would have immediately made me root for his demise.

So Josh says he didn't play his Shot because he really thought that he was in a good place and Kane was going home.  Even though he says he knew he was in trouble.  He wanted to "save it for later", which obviously didn't seem like a well thought out plan.

I find it interesting that he says he would have played on people's sympathies by disclosing his illness and talking about his dead kidney donor and how much she loved the outdoors and how it's fitting that he is here playing this game for her.    If he was so sick that he couldn't function to play the game, the show wouldn't have cast him.  And trying to play on people's emotions... that's like Adam Klein and "my mom is dying from cancer and she wanted to see me on this show" all over again.  I find that disgusting.

On 4/6/2023 at 4:14 AM, mojoween said:

I hope Survivor got that footage of Carson putting together the 3D tree puzzle *after* the season was over, and they weren’t sitting on that footage but made that challenge anyways.

I found that suspect as well.  It really looked like the kind of video that he would have sent in with his audition application.  If they knew in advance that he had practiced this challenge and then included it in the game anyways, then that's really poor.  I agree that I hope that in footage that didn't air, they asked him how he did it so quickly, he mentioned he 3D printed it, and then they asked him to send them the video when he got home.  Otherwise it seems a bit fishy.  I hope this is a wake-up call to Jeffy and the producers that they need to design new puzzles and challenges.  They at least could have used the tree puzzle but made the pieces different.

[eel21788]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

  They at least could have used the tree puzzle but made the pieces different.

It would have been hilarious to watch if they had changed the puzzle, and he was trying to shove the pieces in for the way the puzzle used to work and couldn't figure out what he was doing wrong.

[gingerella]

I don't get all the Carolyn love. I loathe her. I'm so tired of her addled brain responses, the weird faces and gestures. She and Yam Yam are the worst kind of players IMO because they are too emotionally unstable to stick with a plan. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by gingerella

[ArtFossil]

23 hours ago, gingerella said:

I don't get all the Carolyn love. I loathe her. I'm so tired of her addled brain responses, the weird faces and gestures. She and Yam Yam are the worst kind of players IMO because they are too emotionally unstable to stick with a plan. 

Without doing the research I would guess that 70 to 80 percent of Survivor players who “stuck with a plan” got voted out. 
 

Go Carolyn!

[Rt66vintage]

22 hours ago, gingerella said:

I don't get all the Carolyn love. I loathe her. I'm so tired of her addled brain responses, the weird faces and gestures. She and Yam Yam are the worst kind of players IMO because they are too emotionally unstable to stick with a plan. 

I get you. Carolyn strikes me as having ingested lots of questionable substances for years that may have damaged her brain. Since recovering, now she's an expert to counsel other people? She seems sharply in tune about how others perceive her, ignore her, but like someone said above, we're not with her 24/7. Maybe she's just an insufferable weirdo. I was kinda surprised at the merge feast when the bottle of wine was revealed and Carolyn was the lone voice of excitement "Yeah!" More editing?

[gingerella]

2 minutes ago, Rt66vintage said:

I get you. Carolyn strikes me as having ingested lots of questionable substances for years that may have damaged her brain. Since recovering, now she's an expert to counsel other people? She seems sharply in tune about how others perceive her, ignore her, but like someone said above, we're not with her 24/7. Maybe she's just an insufferable weirdo. I was kinda surprised at the merge feast when the bottle of wine was revealed and Carolyn was the lone voice of excitement "Yeah!" More editing?

Yes, she appears to be highly paranoid, which if it's true and not manufactured drama, could be a result of too many drugs back in the day. But overall, I don't enjoy watching paranoid, unstable players. Has she made some astute comment and game play? She has. But overall, I could do without all the dramatic OTT histrionics with the facial expressions, etc. Enough already.

[Heathrowe]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:40 AM, blackwing said:

I hope this is a wake-up call to Jeffy and the producers that they need to design new puzzles and challenges.  They at least could have used the tree puzzle but made the pieces different.

Right? Up the puzzle budget, please. 

I love YamYam and find him funny, so I am happy he was spared this week. I did not like Josh. I know it's just editing but it looked like he stepped off the boat and was like "VOTE OFF YAMYAM!" - he didn't seem to waste any time before weaseling around. And then he came back to YamYam and lied to him about voting for Kane. (I am pretty sure Josh voted for YamYam, right?)

I would like to see Franny shake off Matt because she seems smart and funny and I also think he's holding her back/making her a target.

Kane actually should go home, being being such an idiot as to repeat what Carson told him right back to the source? Why would he do that? If I were Carson, he'd be dead to me going forward.

I also think Carolyn presents kind of crazy. She is fun to watch on my tv but I'm not sure how close I would want to get on a small island. That said - it's very interesting to watch her being ignored when we know she is right! And maybe the editing played up her being ignored because in the end - Josh WAS voted out.

Now that they've hit the merge, they can start picking off the big strong guys, right? The remaining players seem to tilt strongly toward nerd so I'm thinking big guys go down next...

 

 

[JH Lipton]

On 4/5/2023 at 6:04 PM, tracyscott76 said:

I could be totally off base, but that scene with Lauren and Heidi discussing options gave me "they make it far and have a hand in things going forward" vibes. 

When Jeff asked Heidi a question, I literally asked my wife "Who the hell is she???"  My wife didn't know either!

 

On 4/5/2023 at 6:04 PM, susannot said:

I feel badly for Josh.  He has been through a lot.  Plus I was looking forward to the GURRL alliance between Josh and Yam Yam.

God how I HATE it when gay men call each other "girl".  You are not female -- gay men have very different struggles than women do, and considering how many gay men seem to despise women (there was a term they used for women with gay friends -- "f** h**"), just Please Stop.

On 4/5/2023 at 6:21 PM, princelina said:

If it makes you feel any better I don't think it would have gone far because Josh seemed bent on holding that grudge 😄

To be fair, so did Yam Yam.  And Yam Yam was trying to vote out Josh -- Josh's only "crime" was stopping him.

 

On 4/6/2023 at 7:08 AM, Shermie said:

I haven’t watched Survivor for several years and started again with this season. Noticed that Jeff talks a lot to the men at tribal council but not much to the women; has it always been that way and I didn’t notice before? I don’t think Frannie and Heidi (?) said one word at tribal. 

Jeff has always had a thing for "manly men", but has dialed back a bit since they don't go far anymore,

[susannot]

Wow, that has not been my experience with gay men.  It sounds stupidly cliched, but I really do have a lot of gay male friends and they do not despise women at all.  They are good friends with me, and many other dear woman friends.  No doubt SOME gay men despise women, according to the typical range of human experience, but I would not say a lot.  And lots of my friends call each other girrl and I think it's funny.  They do too.

[Nashville]

On 4/7/2023 at 8:40 AM, blackwing said:

If they knew in advance that [Carson] had practiced this challenge and then included it in the game anyways, then that's really poor.

…Not specifically saying I don’t agree with this, but I’m not sure if I do agree with it either; IMHO it depends on how far in advance of the season the comp challenge lineup had been composed. If the season’s challenge puzzle lineup was established in advance of the contestant picks, then wouldn’t changing the lineup to penalize a single subsequently-picked contestant be just as bad as shuffling the lineup to accommodate a single contestant?

IMHO it doesn’t seem quite fair to penalize a contestant for the sole offense of demonstrating more-than-usual commitment to the game - particularly if, as others have mentioned, the simple solution exists of simply ensuring the puzzle in use is not an exact duplicate of the one the contestant used for practice.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

…Not specifically saying I don’t agree with this, but I’m not sure if I do agree with it either; IMHO it depends on how far in advance of the season the comp challenge lineup had been composed.

The challenge lineup was chosen what feel like at least 10 seasons ago. They do the same ones every season lol.

[Nashville]

On 4/14/2023 at 4:22 PM, peachmangosteen said:

The challenge lineup was chosen what feel like at least 10 seasons ago. They do the same ones every season lol.

Yeah, that was kinda my point.  😁