S03.E08: Part Eight - Surrender

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Vadic forces Picard to make an impossible choice: deliver what he can never give… or watch his crew perish. Their only salvation lies in the mind of an old friend and old foe.

Dropping Thursday, April 6, 2023.

[cambridgeguy]

Eight episodes down and we STILL don't know what makes Jack so super special.  At this point whatever it ends up being is going to be anti-climactic.

So, how many fans are going to bitch about how Changelings should be able to survive in the vacuum of space?  Even though these Changelings (for better or worse) are very different from the default DS9 version?

Raffi likes doing things the hard way, doesn't she?  A phaser would have been a lot neater than going into a 4 on 1 fight with just a pair of swords.  Worf knows how to get it done!

[Francie]

I read somewhere that the budget for this season was $100 million. It's a shame no one thought to use some of that money to hire real writers. 

[paigow]

Even the O.G. Founders would freeze in space. Regardless of 0% oxygen, they would be unable to function. 

[Francie]

I love Data. But that scene where he's pulling out memberberry after memberberry was painful. In a show filled with quip, move on, quip, move on, that scene became slow and clunky. Look it's a deck of cards - remember all those poker scenes!* And Spot -- remember Spot! All I could think was, "Data's not protecting the memberberries. He IS the memberberries."

(*Because it's not really about the poker games themselves. It's just about the fact that there were poker games. I'll re-watch the final scene of All Good Things if I want to feel genuine emotion and sentiment.)

Also, I had fun -- meaning I amused myself at least -- with this dialogue: 

Troi: "It's (She, I forget, and I don't care to look back) is so filled with rage and anger and ..."

Me: Rage and anger are the same thing.

Devil's advocate me: Well, rage is stronger than anger. Rage is strong, violent, uncontrollable anger. 

Me: Yes, but you agree then, rage is a certain type of anger. Anger is subsumed in the universe of rage. So, you don't need to say 'anger,' when you already have 'rage.' 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Francie
formatting

[cambridgeguy]

38 minutes ago, paigow said:

Even the O.G. Founders would freeze in space. Regardless of 0% oxygen, they would be unable to function. 

Changelings have been able to travel in space just fine - Laas was able to catch up to a runabout by himself.  It's possible they need to morph into a form that can naturally do so, but unless they're stopping on a warm rock every time they need to regenerate, being in space didn't freeze them into some sort of stasis.

[Zaffy]

"Monologuing protoplasms" !!!
😅😂 😂 😂

Apart from too much Vadic, I really enjoyed this one.

But I can't with the red door..
because of course... for me behind the red door it will always be ...this!

 

[Cattoy]

33 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Changelings have been able to travel in space just fine - Laas was able to catch up to a runabout by himself.  It's possible they need to morph into a form that can naturally do so, but unless they're stopping on a warm rock every time they need to regenerate, being in space didn't freeze them into some sort of stasis.

Not to mention the Changelings dropped piles of baby goop into space to explore and find their way home.

[dwmarch]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Eight episodes down and we STILL don't know what makes Jack so super special.  At this point whatever it ends up being is going to be anti-climactic.

When Jack said he was afraid of what was behind the door, I replied "Nah dude, we've been dragging ass on this mystery for so long it can't possibly be anything scary."

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Raffi likes doing things the hard way, doesn't she?  A phaser would have been a lot neater than going into a 4 on 1 fight with just a pair of swords.  Worf knows how to get it done!

That was bizarre. There is no shortage of phasers around. Maybe Worf told her to get some aggression out?

I am confused by the distribution of Starfleet leather jackets. Jack had one even though he's not Starfleet at all. Seven put one on at some point and I assumed it was because she is rebellious (like the TNG crew in Insurrection who did the same). And now at the end of this episode, the entire TNG crew has decided to start wearing them. Geordi even has the Commodore version. I guess they've been cooped up for a while and probably needed a change of clothes. Is it cold on the ship? Beverly has been wearing a coat all season and they did open the ship's front door so maybe that's it. Maybe the Titan is a ship where if you want to turn up the lights you have to turn down the heat?

I'm a little sad that they had Vadic promise to "execute" but not follow that up with "every MF last one of you" although I thought "fucking solids!" was hilarious.

Speaking of Tarantino Trek, didn't he talk about wanting to do a scene where someone is yeeted through the bridge window and leaves a trail of guts behind? Vadic's demise pretty much checks that off.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I will forgive all the lapses in plotting for the show scratching my nostalgia itch. Data defeating Lore via surrender using his precious memories, including Tasha, poker and Spot rocked. (I would have geeked out even harder if he explicitly or implicitly referenced how he busted up the Strategema grandmaster by playing a different game than he expected.) Having the main cast all around a single table, same. It doesn't matter that massive incompetence and coincidence had to exist on all sides to get to these points.

Jack has been hearing voices all his 20-something (lol) life, and he didn't say anything, Beverly didn't notice anything, but somehow Vadic knows all about it? I guess Big Bad could be the one who is talking to him and could have given Vadic the info.

Worf and Raffi manage to find the Shrike, board it, find and rescue Riker and Troi without serious opposition?

The Changelings never once use their morphing abilities effectively. It would be so easy to replace any one of the Titan's crew and find Jack or at least undermine the resistance.

Nor do they use their advantage over the Titan effectively. Once you have control of the bridge, flood the ship with knockout gas, use the sensors to figure out where life readings are and pick Jack up at your leisure.

A shame that the show couldn't be bothered to deliver the character moments and a reasonable plot alongside them.

[Peace 47]

Hilarious that Geordi also hates Chateau Picard wines.  That stuff must be swill.

I see a red door, and I want to paint it black—hey, maybe it’s The Rolling Stones behind there.  Troi did say it was an ancient, weak voice.

Things I liked:

- Riker and Troi had good chemistry in their scenes together.  I’m still a little bothered about how their daughter seems like kind of an afterthought to both of them (but I get how that can happen in the middle of grief over another child).  But on the lighter side, them dunking on Nepenthe was funny.  Whatever she said about it being a hipster paradise was funny.

- Geordi and Data’s two sentence exchange before the conference room scene was sweet.

Things I didn’t like:

- I have found Shaw to be an amusing asshole, with the thought/ hope that he was going to display some growth (especially after he kind of apologized for his Borg rant and seemed to realize how out of line he was).  But his refusal to call Seven by her name is really getting ridiculous.  Starfleet HR should be all up in that “hostile workplace” violation.

- Riker being so jealous of Worf greeting Deanna.  That was a scene played for laughs that was not true to the characters.  They’re all too good of friends for Riker to act like that.

- The plot and pacing of this show.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Peace 47

[PurpleTentacle]

God, I hate that stupid mystery box. I just know that whatever is behind that door is going to be extremely dumb.

[paigow]

Chateau Picard new products:

• Hard Prune Cider
• Romulan Ale

Edited April 6, 2023 by paigow

[PurpleTentacle]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Even the O.G. Founders would freeze in space. Regardless of 0% oxygen, they would be unable to function. 

There was that one changeling visiting DS9 who changed into a space whale and traveled the stars that way. He wasn't a founder, but I assume the founders would have mastered that in their long existence?

Edited April 6, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[Stardancer Supreme]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I will forgive all the lapses in plotting for the show scratching my nostalgia itch. Data defeating Lore via surrender using his precious memories, including Tasha, poker and Spot rocked. (I would have geeked out even harder if he explicitly or implicitly referenced how he busted up the Strategema grandmaster by playing a different game than he expected.) Having the main cast all around a single table, same. It doesn't matter that massive incompetence and coincidence had to exist on all sides to get to these points.

Jack has been hearing voices all his 20-something (lol) life, and he didn't say anything, Beverly didn't notice anything, but somehow Vadic knows all about it? I guess Big Bad could be the one who is talking to him and could have given Vadic the info.

Worf and Raffi manage to find the Shrike, board it, find and rescue Riker and Troi without serious opposition?

The Changelings never once use their morphing abilities effectively. It would be so easy to replace any one of the Titan's crew and find Jack or at least undermine the resistance.

Nor do they use their advantage over the Titan effectively. Once you have control of the bridge, flood the ship with knockout gas, use the sensors to figure out where life readings are and pick Jack up at your leisure.

A shame that the show couldn't be bothered to deliver the character moments and a reasonable plot alongside them.

 

Same.  I just had to shake my head at the continuing cliffhanger that is Jack... Jaaaaaccck.  Please tell us what is up with him!

I hope Kestra is safe somewhere.  Knowing about Marina Sirtis' limited availability, I am glad thay didn't show us the torture she underwent. Please tell me that Deanna was joking about the "good in bed, bad at pizza" quip.  And Vadic got what she deserved for being so poor at obtaining a prisoner when having control of the entire ship said prisoner is on.  So clearly she took damn near every changeling from the Shrike to the Titan, leaving behind 2 prisoners who should have been crafty enough to eventually get free without help? Riker just let his old manness out.  Also, does this mean that Picard's body is also destroyed for real now?  What is so damned special about Picard and Jaaaccccckk that we are going through this nonsense? Sigh.

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

God, I hate that stupid mystery box. I just know that whatever is behind that door is going to be extremely dumb.

 

Yep. Lowering my expectations to the floor for this one. Who's behind the damn door?

 

2 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Hilarious that Geordi also hates Chateau Picard wines.  That stuff must be swill.

I have found Shaw to be an amusing asshole, with the thought/ hope that he was going to display some growth (especially after he kind of apologized for his Borg rant and seemed to realize how out of line he was).  But his refusal to call Seven by her name is really getting ridiculous.  Starfleet HR should be all up in that “hostile workplace” violation.

 

Yeah. Seven needs a transfer stat. 

 

[FloatOn]

1 hour ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I hope Kestra is safe somewhere. 

Terry Matalas has now given an interview where he said her and mentions of her whereabouts "just didn't fit" in the dialogue and story for the season and that we're supposed to assume she's in early admission at Starfleet Academy. So...yeah.

I know people didn't like season 1 and it wasn't my favorite thing either. However, I find the constant digs at the Nepenthe episode and Matalas trying to make it seem like the Rikers only cared about their son this whole time to be in extremely poor taste. There were ways to get the story about grief and them feeling isolated on that planet across without direct digs at the other season and by making them seem like neglectful parents towards their daughter.

This mess with Jack should have wrapped up three episodes ago.

[Linda956]

I never forgave Star Trek for killing off Data in Star Trek Nemesis.  I was an emotional wreck and could never watch that movie again.  Despite the somewhat clunky writing, I'm glad they found a way to bring him back - even though it took over 20 years.  And yes, I teared up when he was together with the old crew.

[PurpleTentacle]

13 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

So, how many fans are going to bitch about how Changelings should be able to survive in the vacuum of space?  Even though these Changelings (for better or worse) are very different from the default DS9 version?

Nah. These changelings are dumb, but it makes sense that they couldn't survive in space, with them being very fleshy.

But if you want me to complain about something: Them being that fleshy it stands to reason that they would fare much the same as we would in space, right? So how in the hell did Vadic shatter into chunks after being in space for 10 seconds? Space is cold, yes, but there is also no medium to transport heat away from you. The only way you are going to lose heat in space is through infrared radiation and that is a sloooooow process. Being frozen to the point that you can shatter would take forever.

Edited April 7, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[Prevailing Wind]

The leather field jackets are discussed in this week's "Ready Room." (Or was it last week's? I watched both this morning.)

Behind the Red Door = an Elizabeth Arden salon.

Troi's bonding with Jack. I forget exactly what she said, "It's time you..."  and I yelled, "It's time you trimmed your bangs."  Good thing she's entering the Red Door. Those Arden stylists will fix her right up.

I also watched Nemesis today - Wesley made it back for the wedding. He's sitting behind his mom.  In the trivia section of imdb, it's said he had a bigger part, but it was cut, reducing him to a background extra.

I really saw her dad in Plummer's face in this episode.  Funny how I've never seen a hint of her mom in her appearance.

[Chit Chat]

37 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

Behind the Red Door = an Elizabeth Arden salon.

Bwah!!  I needed that humor considering how dark and heavy this episode was.  

[MissLucas]

Has this show just retconned itself? Last time we saw Troi and Riker they seemed to still be grieving (you never stop grieving a child) but also at ease with each other and trying to make a happy home for Kestra. Who I am sure would be thrilled to move to a city. Or is she already grown-up and doing her own thing? I've lost the timeline.

As for the rest: I never cared too much for Data post TNG so this whole trip down memory-lane did nothing for me. I knew he would come through. But I must admit "Monologuing protoplasms" caused the first real laugh I ever experienced watching this season. I'm also mildly amused by Zen Worf. 

Jack mindwalking through the Titan's corridors, seeing dead crew members was a bit of effective horror at least. And for once the bad lighting made sense.

Maybe Rafi was honoring Elnor with her badass sword stunt?

Two more episodes to tinker in front of that stupid door. I doubt this can be brought to a satisfying resolution but here we are.

[Chit Chat]

20 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I'm also mildly amused by Zen Worf. 

Although I can appreciate him becoming more sensitive, as I've said before, I feel like he's been neutered.  Some of his lines have been pretty funny though.  I will always love Worf, no matter what. 

22 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Maybe Rafi was honoring Elnor with her badass sword stunt?

Maybe so!  That's a good point!

[Francie]

I finally am beaten down to the point of apathy. What's behind the door and what cameos and  spaceship porn is left is of zero interest to me. My three takeaways:

1) This show/season (I only watched Nepenthe and I echo FloatOn's sentiment) has done one thing for me: it encouraged me to re-engage with a show that I had forgotten was so meaningful to me. For all my mocking of "memberberries," and I stand buy that disdain because what sparked my own memories and feelings were the actors themselves and not the pandering references, a flood of memories and emotions did came back. I'll occasionally catch an episode of TNG here and there on the Heroes and Icons channel, but I hadn't revisited the entire show since the mid-90s. I had forgotten how influential it was and how big a part of my teen and young adulthood years it was for me and my friends. For that prompting, I'm grateful. 

2) I can do without Paramount+ until it gets serious about its original content. Now, apparently, I have 20 days to watch 6 seasons of The Good Fight before my subscription ends.

3) The next time I see a set as dark lit as the ones on this show, I know to run! RUN! Run like the wind!! Run like I'm George Costanza and someone's yelled FIRE! in a room full of children!!!

[greekmom]

What the actual F did I watch now?
Riker didn't even test to make sure that Deanna is truly Deanna.  And what happened to Kestra when fake Riker came over?
And how did Vadic know that Jack can do that mind thing?
So it took 8 out of 10 episodes to get almost the whole gang together. **sigh** What a waste of show.
Theories on what is behind Jack's red door:

    1.    Denise Crosby 
    2.    Wesley the time traveller 
    3.    The Green Mist ghost 

Show. Why couldn't you hire better writers?  You had the money.

The only half decent thing was Worf's speech to Deanna.

Data has now died and been revived more times than Stefano DiMera.  We may as well call him The Phoenix.

I just can't with Captain Douchebag and Seven.  At this point I do think he secretly lusts after her and just calls her Hansen to get under her skin.
So sad show. So sad.

[iMonrey]

Ugh, enough with the Jack Crusher mystery already! Best line in the episode was him telling Vadic "if you'd like to stop talking in batshit circles I'm all ears." And then . . . she continued to talk in batshit circles. GRRRRR. At least we're done with Vadic now, there really was too much of her mustache twirling this episode.

Quote

I see a red door, and I want to paint it black—hey, maybe it’s The Rolling Stones behind there.  Troi did say it was an ancient, weak voice.

Bwah! Best post of the week!

Quote

But on the lighter side, them dunking on Nepenthe was funny.  Whatever she said about it being a hipster paradise was funny.

It struck me how unlikely it is that the word "hipster" will still be in use 300 years from now.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 minutes ago, greekmom said:

What the actual F did I watch now?
Riker didn't even test to make sure that Deanna is truly Deanna.  And what happened to Kestra when fake Riker came over?
And how did Vadic know that Jack can do that mind thing?
So it took 8 out of 10 episodes to get almost the whole gang together. **sigh** What a waste of show.
Theories on what is behind Jack's red door:

    1.    Denise Crosby 
    2.    Wesley the time traveller 
    3.    The Green Mist ghost 

Show. Why couldn't you hire better writers?  You had the money.

The only half decent thing was Worf's speech to Deanna.

Data has now died and been revived more times than Stefano DiMera.  We may as well call him The Phoenix.

I just can't with Captain Douchebag and Seven.  At this point I do think he secretly lusts after her and just calls her Hansen to get under her skin.
So sad show. So sad.

I will buy that Riker either tested that Deanna is truly Deanna off-screen or he just knows. They are supposed to have some low-level sort of psychic link, so they could have talked to each other through that.

I guess we're to think that the Changelings just nabbed Deanna and left Kestra to her own devices.

My theory on what's behind the red door is some sort of Borg offshoot, and that somehow Picard has passed on some sort of nanobot connectivity thing that allows Jack to have this quasi-warging ability.

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

It struck me how unlikely it is that the word "hipster" will still be in use 300 years from now.

Why not? Certain slang phrases we use now (though specific ones are not coming to mind) had their origins in the 1600s-1700s.

[greekmom]

2 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

My theory on what's behind the red door is some sort of Borg offshoot, and that somehow Picard has passed on some sort of nanobot connectivity thing that allows Jack to have this quasi-warging ability.

nah. My bet is green mist ghost or Darth Vader stating: "Jack I am your father! Join me and the dark side."

[Peace 47]

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Or is she already grown-up and doing her own thing? I've lost the timeline.

@FloatOn’s post above says that Terry Matalas stated that he felt that he didn’t have time to address Kestra, so just assume that she is off at Starfleet Academy.

One story beat of the episode that I kind of responded to was Jack’s temptation to go the bridge to turn himself in, and Picard chimed in as the veteran captain (admiral, whatever) he is and told Jack that if he did that, Vadic would just kill the rest of the crew all the sooner and leave with Jack anyway.  Jack was under enormous emotional pressure at that point, and I liked that Jean-Luc was applying Starfleet rationale to the situation:  it was a flash of the old Picard I remembered from TNG.  

So on this whole Jack situation:  Picard’s body was altered in some way by his Borg assimilation, in a way that mimics Irumodic Syndrome, and this is genetically passed along to Jack, but Jack was also further modified in some way before birth to give him powers to control others (Borg-like without the need for assimilation).  And the Changelings, who have already infiltrated (most of?) Starfleet and can control people anyway by replacing them, want Jack to exert further control over the Federation, and something from Picard’s brain will help them do that?

It all seems so complicated, so maybe all that is just overthinking the answer.  Like that one Simpsons episode where Milhouse presents the kids’ collective synthesized theory for where their parents are going at night:  “The Rand Corporation—in conjunction with the saucer people—under the supervision of the reverse vampires—are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner!”  My only takeaway from what we know so far is that Bev is coming across as a piss-poor doctor:  not being able to eliminate all the Borg-iness from Jean-Luc, misdiagnosing his Irumodic syndrome, not checking her kid out when he couldn’t sleep as a kid, misdiagnosing him.  Yikes, Bev.

My hot take is that I’m pro-leather jacket.  They look cool.

[paigow]

12 minutes ago, greekmom said:

    1.    Denise Crosby 
    2.    Wesley the time traveller 
    3.    The Green Mist ghost 

• Wheelchair!Pike with a Talosian PSW
• Georgiou
• Garak - with a fab outfit for Jack

[MissLucas]

11 minutes ago, paigow said:

•  
• Georgiou

I actually read Grogu there for a moment 😂

[Peace 47]

Just now, MissLucas said:

I actually read Grogu there for a moment 😂

Lol!  You put Pedro Pascal with Grogu behind that door and I’ll give this season an A+.

[paigow]

Irumodic Syndrome was a pre-existing condition before assimilation. Borg implants are irrelevant. 

[Peace 47]

1 minute ago, paigow said:

Irumodic Syndrome was a pre-existing condition before assimilation. Borg implants are irrelevant. 

But Data said this season that the diagnosis was most likely incorrect.  And Picard was only diagnosed with the disease post-assimilation.

[thuganomics85]

Man, they actually had Picard or Crusher (can't remember who) say that Jack is "special."  I swear, these days most shows avoid that particular line/word, because they know fandom either roll their eyes or mock the overused cliche, but this show is just wearing it on their sleeve for better or worse.  Mainly worse.

Looks like Vadic is finally no more, although she at least got to drop a F-bomb on her way out.  While I generally enjoyed her scenery chewing, I did like seeing her briefly just be flat-out ruthless with the way she played mind games with the captures and flat-out executed one.  I don't know if the writing ever really did the character the justice it could have (had it been better, she probably could have joined the list of iconic villains in Star Trek past, but I suspect she'll be forgotten about along with most of this show), but Amanda Plummer was delight throughout it all.  Her dad would have loved it!

So, they drop the barrier that was blocking Data and Lore inside the body's mind, and hope they would fight it out and Data wins.  Instead, Data "surrenders" and basically gives Lore his memories, but that in turn actually basically destroys Lore instead and now Data is Data.  Kind of.  He's still in human form and has more emotions/acts more human, but it's generally Data more or less.  Whatever, I'll take it.  Glad we got more Data/Geordi stuff too.

Wherever it is stabbing baddies, mentoring Raffi, or making things extremely awkward by reminding everyone about the time he and Troi where a thing, Worf will never not be the best!

They really can't seem to figure out how to play Shaw.  One minute, he seems like he's thawing and kind of becoming a fun, snarky ally, the next he's back to disrespecting Seven and just generally being an ass for no reason.  Pick a lane, show!

Still think a familiar face in Starfleet will end up being a Changeling they have to face against come endgame time.  Still thinking it might be Janeway.

Now it is time to address the Red Door, I guess.

[Chit Chat]

5 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

While I generally enjoyed her scenery chewing, I did like seeing her briefly just be flat-out ruthless with the way she played mind games with the captures and flat-out executed one. 

I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I sure didn't!  I seem to be getting particularly squeamish to TV violence.  I almost walked out of the room midway through, but I hung in there.  The episode just got so dark.  Ugh.

It didn't make sense to me that Troi couldn't sense something was off about Changeling Riker.  She said that she can't read them, but c'mon show! She senses almost everything else.  Troi is smarter than that.  I don't like how they've written her character this time around.  

[ch1]

I don’t think I have ever been tired of a character the way I am over Data.  Dear God let the character die and stay dead.  How many times does Spiner have to basically do the same scenes?
 

 

[greekmom]

13 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Still think a familiar face in Starfleet will end up being a Changeling they have to face against come endgame time.  Still thinking it might be Janeway.

Nah. The hacks that call themselves writers are really playing up the nostalgia. I'm thinking Tasha. 

Has Denise Crosby confirmed or denied she filmed this season?

6 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

It didn't make sense to me that Troi couldn't sense something was off about Changeling Riker.  She said that she can't read them, but c'mon show! She senses almost everything else.  Troi is smarter than that.  I don't like how they've written her character this time around.  

Agreed. She couldn't sense her Imzadi? 

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Data has now died and been revived more times than Stefano DiMera.  We may as well call him The Phoenix.

You can just call him Daniel Jackson if you're a fan of one of those other Star franchises.  Of course, now Data is allowed to be a snarky quipster.  To paraphrase another character who was really popular in the 90s, with a dry cool wit like that he could be an action hero!

[FloatOn]

48 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I sure didn't!  I seem to be getting particularly squeamish to TV violence.  I almost walked out of the room midway through, but I hung in there.  The episode just got so dark.  Ugh.

It didn't make sense to me that Troi couldn't sense something was off about Changeling Riker.  She said that she can't read them, but c'mon show! She senses almost everything else.  Troi is smarter than that.  I don't like how they've written her character this time around.  

She said she couldn't read them but knew that they were imposters as soon as they arrived.

[Prevailing Wind]

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

something from Picard’s brain will help them do that?

Somebody said they took the parts of his brain that were affected by the (alleged) irumodic syndrome.

I'm still waiting for those parasite things that infected much of the upper echelons of Starfleet that had everybody eating live meal worms.  Picard & Riker blasted the crap out of Remick to kill the master, but only after a signal had been sent to the home planet. Maybe that's what behind The Red Door.

With all our fun speculation, whatever it is, is going to be a let-down. Bwaahahaha

[marinw]

“My name is Seven of Nine” 

About time!

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

It didn't make sense to me that Troi couldn't sense something was off about Changeling Riker.  She said that she can't read them, but c'mon show! She senses almost everything else.  Troi is smarter than that.  I don't like how they've written her character this time around.  

Troi said she picked out the changelings who came immediately. The "good in bed, bad at pizza" was a joke. 

23 minutes ago, FloatOn said:

She said she couldn't read them but knew that they were imposters as soon as they arrived.

More specifically, she said she can't read OG changelings, but she knew that the changelings who came for her were imposters, IIRC. She seems to be able to read these Section 31-ified changelings emotionally -- the "rage and anger" another poster referred to her sensing was from them IIRC.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Chicago Redshirt

[marinw]

Loved loved loved the Riker and Troi scenes. And Worf rescuing them was everything.

[paigow]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:30 PM, marinw said:

“My name is Seven of Nine” ...

You ruined my life...

Prepare to die.

ETA - Shaw: Stop saying that!!!!

 

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by paigow

[Stardancer Supreme]

1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

It didn't make sense to me that Troi couldn't sense something was off about Changeling Riker.  She said that she can't read them, but c'mon show! She senses almost everything else.  Troi is smarter than that.  I don't like how they've written her character this time around.  

 

 

 

She did say that she knew that the changeling wasn't Will almost immediately. The lines that should have been cut was how charming she found the fakeWill. "Good in bed, bad at pizza." I know she didn't have sex with something impersonating her husband! In fact, they could have replaced that line with a "I'm so glad Kestra wasn't there and that hopefully she is safe at the Academy..."

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Stardancer Supreme

[Affogato]

I will treasure Worf: "One's personal space is a right"  I was thrilled to see Spot, although recast, not forgotten. Glad Data gets a chance at humor.

I'm enjoying this, although I'm getting a little tired of huge galactic freefloating intelligences. Of course this guy really isn't.

I'm assuming that the face is the same personage that is behind Jack's door. He is able to inhabit Jack because of the (I don't remember the word well enough to be confident I'm spelling it right) Irumedic syndrome. He has his own agenda, separate from the changelings.  The being wants the changlings to use the parts of Picard's abandoned brain to learn to imitate irumedic syndrome so he can inhabit all of them, all over the galaxy, at once. For some reason. Probably to take it over and restart his own civilization or something. The changelings will let him do this to get revenge on starfleet.  When they are finished he will leave them, taking their semisolid disease with him and they will go back to the link, leaving federation space to the great darkness. Deanna will be able to talk to the whatever and at some point a compromise will be reached.

In any case, that's my theory.

[Chit Chat]

39 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Troi said she picked out the changelings who came immediately. The "good in bed, bad at pizza" was a joke. 

Thanks.  Somehow, I missed that first part, so naturally I didn't realize she was joking about the second part.  That's why the whole scene was lost on me!

1 minute ago, Affogato said:

I was thrilled to see Spot, although recast, not forgotten.

I was happy to see Spot too.  I wish they could've squeezed in a cameo by Wil Wheaton.  

[Cattoy]

I'm not going to rehash all the nonsense and plot holes others have already pointed out. I found myself watching this and constantly checking the time. I was going to say a decent editor could have cut this down to 20 minutes, then I realized a decent editor could have cut this whole season down to 20 minutes. Even I don't know if that's hyperbole.

And just get to the damn point about Jack. I can't think of anything from the previous shows that would relate to whatever he's supposed to be. Borg technology isn't genetic, but they've thrown basic science, continuity and common sense out, so maybe they'll go there. 

Of course, maybe it's "God" from Star Trek: V.

[Colorado David]

i am sorry why is the shrike suddenly vulnerable to 3-4 photon torpedoes? it has been badass up to now.

[Affogato]

3 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

i am sorry why is the shrike suddenly vulnerable to 3-4 photon torpedoes? it has been badass up to now.

it's shields weren't up.