S01.E17: The Friendly Skies

[secnarf]

Quote

When Ben leaps aboard a 1970s passenger jet as a flight attendant, he must outwit its hijackers before it mysteriously crashes into the Atlantic, and worse, he has to do it all without Ziggy's help.

Original air date: March 27 2023

[AnimeMania]

[Starchild]

Well we were right. Ian's a much better hologram than Addison. Ben the notPilot was trying to land a crippled jumbo jet and he was still 10x more relaxed with Ian than he's ever been with Addison.

Speaking of Ian, why are they so sure they were leaping without the team's knowledge? They have no way of knowing that Magic didn't actually send Ian back.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Starchild

[Irlandesa]

Ben's legs in that skirt looked amazing! 

Overall, I really liked this episode.  There were some complications because of the BIG mystery, but most of the time was spent on the smaller mystery. It had the vibe of the original because it gave the spoiled kid quite an arc.  (Although I was surprised he turned into a pilot instead of a benevolent CEO of the airline).

And we got a great little scene with Ian as the hologram.  I think someone must have realized that they needed to expand beyond just having Addison as the leaper, considering she's the least interesting character on the show.  I'd like to see Ian and Ben together in a longer episode.  They had some fun banter and I love that Ben remembered Ian.

That said, I'm not looking forward to next week. I hate apocalypse shows.

[KaveDweller]

I thought this was a good episode, and again it's because they spent a lot of time in the past storyline and delved into the characters there.  My only complaint is we didn't really see the motivation for the co-pilot and the woman ex-cop hijacking a plane. I guess they didn't intend to kill people, but that is a pretty big leap from cop to criminal. I know she worked with the annoying kid, but still.

Not sure it is believable Ben could land a 747, even with Ian guiding him.

I also thought it was funny at the end when Addison said Ben doesn't get the update on the people from the leap. My complaint in a lot of these episodes has been that they do the update back at HQ and not with Ben. Ben never gets to really hear about the long term good he does.

I guess next week is the finale? Seems Ian sent Ben leaping not because of Addison but because they some how cause an apocalypse? It ties with Ziggy being "the mole." Ziggy is always updating its predictions based on new information, so it is believable that 10 years from now Ziggy is all, "oops that thing I told you to do in 2023 ended up causing a problem, I'd better send a new leaper to undo it." 2023 Ziggy only knows data up until the current point, but future Ziggy will know more.

What's interesting is that it didn't occur to anyone else that maybe the other leapers are doing the right thing and they are the problem?

 

[Chyromaniac]

“So Cory, do you like movies about Gladiators?”

That was pretty good- although in a way it kind of made Ziggy seem redundant.  Back in the day, Al and the team relied on Ziggy for practically everything they knew about the leap.  But hey- these guys have the modern internet, so no big loss…. Overall though, it was fun watching Ben and the team work their way through the mystery, and reacting to the changing circumstances.  Tbh, I could have done without Ian’s crisis of faith - or maybe have it be something other than not using Ziggy.  But, I did enjoy having Ian in the imaging chamber.  Much like with Jen in the lawyer episode it was good to have a different perspective and skill set at work.  If there is a reason to have an expanded role for the team, this is it- helping Ben deal with skills and experiences that he doesn’t have on his own, or just from Addison.  Next week should be interesting, although it looks to be so unlike anything else in the show.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Chyromaniac

[possibilities]

This show really has improved as the season has gone on.

How did they figure out ziggy is the mole? I realize what's her name told them, but I can't remember how she figured it out.

In the first scene with the insulin, I heard the flight attendant say the passenger needed her insulin because her arthritis was acting up. Did they used to give insulin for arthritis?? I suppose it could be that the inflammation from the arthritis makes her blood sugar rise (inflammation will do that), but I still thought it was an awkward way to introduce the insulin. Why not just say she needed her insulin for her blood sugar? Also, wouldn't she give herself her own shot? She wasn't a child for godsake. She must have been giving herself shots multiple times a day for many years.

I was really annoyed by Jen and Ian wasting time talking about their feelings when they were at HQ trying to figure out how to stop the plane crash with not much time. If you want me to be on edge watching the show, then have the characters also act like they're in a hurry.

I like that they show Ben dealing with the harassment women deal with, and that's his only issue with being in a woman's skin. 

Ian has charisma to burn.

 

[Chyromaniac]

17 minutes ago, possibilities said:

How did they figure out ziggy is the mole? I realize what's her name told them, but I can't remember how she figured it out.

I believe they simply realized that if Martinez is using the same Ziggy as they are- but from the future- then by default it would already know everything that the 2023 team would do to help Ben.  Therefore he was always able to stay ahead of their moves.  What this all means about Martinez’s actual motives is another question.

[bybrandy]

Ian as the hologram was everything I think it should be.  I'm glad we got that.  I hope we keep switching it up.   I really liked this episode i think because Ben got to breathe in the time with the people and work the solution with less Addison?  But I'm not sure.  Maybe it was just more fun.  

[cuppasun]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

In the first scene with the insulin, I heard the flight attendant say the passenger needed her insulin because her arthritis was acting up.

...

Also, wouldn't she give herself her own shot? She wasn't a child for godsake. She must have been giving herself shots multiple times a day for many years.

Yeah, I had a "huh?" moment about that until I realized the point was the flight attendant was helping her with her shot because her arthritis was acting up, making it difficult for her to manage her own shot (not giving her insulin for the arthritis). I think the dialogue was clunky and maybe missing a few words that would have clarified ("I'm helping her with her insulin shot because her hands hurt from arthritis," or something). For the Chekhov's payoff, the word "insulin" had to be prominent in the exchange, but it was juxtaposed badly, I agree.

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Ian as the hologram was everything I think it should be.  I'm glad we got that.  I hope we keep switching it up.   I really liked this episode i think because Ben got to breathe in the time with the people and work the solution with less Addison?  But I'm not sure.  Maybe it was just more fun.  

I was thrilled when I saw them show up on the plane. They have more chemistry with Ben then Addison. 

[Nerfect Drifty]

11 hours ago, Starchild said:

Well we were right. Ian's a much better hologram than Addison. Ben the notPilot was trying to land a crippled jumbo jet and he was still 10x more relaxed with Ian than he's ever been with Addison.

Yeah that's true, but Ian is pretty busy doing a lot of computery stuff with Ziggy.  Ian is sort of like Gooshie from the original show, but presumably without bad breath.

This episode was okay.  Good leap story, decent service in present day.  I'm glad they are finally bring some real progress to the present day story arc.  I just hope they get some closure on it instead of a cliffhanger.  But I am about 99% sure there will be a cliffhanger.

[Nerfect Drifty]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

I like that they show Ben dealing with the harassment women deal with, and that's his only issue with being in a woman's skin.

That was Sam's major problem with it too the first time.  He leapt into an attractive 26 year old woman in the mid 60s and had to deal with a lot of crap.  Another time he dealt with being 9 months pregnant.  I kind of recall he got used to it after a while.

[iMonrey]

This show has grown on me, but the more I get to like it, the more frustrated I get with it. The potential is there, but it needs fixing, and I don't have a lot of confidence the show runners understand what's wrong with it.

This was a good episode, as others have pointed out, it focused primarily on the leap. When they bring in Martinez and Janis and they start talking in riddles is when it gets frustrating and irritating. It's fine to have a mystery behind why Ben leaped in the first place, but what little dribs and drabs we've gotten about that have been a confusing mess.

It didn't really make a lot of sense that Addison could still get intel off the hand-held device without Ziggy because the link was always to Ziggy. She looks at the thing and says "Ziggy says this" or "Ziggy says that" just like Al always did. They sort of tried to yada-yada that but it didn't really work for me. She could have just relayed info she was getting from back at HQ.

It's interesting that Ben has leaped into a woman as many times as he has leaped into a man. Sam only leaped into a woman a handful of times over five seasons. And since he wasn't actually possessing their bodies, the way Ben apparently is, it wouldn't have been nearly as profound for him. Yet Ben seems to have zero reaction to finding himself in the body of the opposite sex, aside from the awkwardness of the dress. I find that lack of reaction completely abnormal.

34 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I was thrilled when I saw {Ian} show up on the plane. They have more chemistry with Ben then Addison. 

A doorknob has more chemistry with Ben than Addison, and that's the number one problem I don't think the show can solve. I don't foresee them killing her off or recasting the role. They could maybe start using other characters as the hologram more often but she's still the albatross around the show's neck.

[Trini]

Thought this was a solid episode. Working without Ziggy (even though handheld Ziggy still worked??) was an interesting twist. Ian helping Ben as the hologram worked just by having a different dynamic than Ben/Addison.

I haven't been able to get into the season-long mystery, so I don't really have any thoughts on Ben's leap to the future; but I'm looking forward to the conclusion -- And there better be a conclusion.

[libgirl2]

20 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

A doorknob has more chemistry with Ben than Addison, and that's the number one problem I don't think the show can solve. I don't foresee them killing her off or recasting the role. They could maybe start using other characters as the hologram more often but she's still the albatross around the show's neck.

I think that would be a good idea, especially as they have to know she isn't being well received. I guess we will see next season. 

[possibilities]

I'm sure Ben will have more of a reaction to being in a female body the first time he has to deal with a tampon or menstrual cramps.

[Starchild]

Or sex.

[StaceyNotStacie]

7 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Ian as the hologram was everything I think it should be.  I'm glad we got that.  I hope we keep switching it up.   I really liked this episode i think because Ben got to breathe in the time with the people and work the solution with less Addison?  But I'm not sure.  Maybe it was just more fun.  

Since they’re finished taping the first season, I’m hoping that when watching the episodes the people in charge see what we see and decide to switch up the holograms based on the story. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I loved the idea of being on the plane with the limited setting. I also want to be on that plane. I mean, first class isn't like that! I liked the compressed time frame of only 45 minutes before the crash. 

The discussion about Ziggy was really well done. I'm not surprised Ian was concerned because guess who is going to have to do all the internet searches and message boards. "Pull the plug".  I agree with the decision though; Ben nearly got killed. Now future QL doesn't know where Ben is. The problem is when do you go back to Ziggy. On the other hand, they probably have his original 'new' code from the start of the season, so they still might know. 

I liked Ian leading the information gathering charge and the reddit theories. 

How young was the owner's son? It looked like he was in his 20s, but I guess he was only a teenager.

And we finally get Hologram Ian! They were holding out on us. I liked the callback to the team betting on everything. 

I know landing the plane was kind of ridiculous, but I still liked it. And that it took the kid, two holograms, and everyone at QL crunching data. 

21 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

My only complaint is we didn't really see the motivation for the co-pilot and the woman ex-cop hijacking a plane.

I think at QL when they speculated that both couldn't advance in their careers and got into some debt, then they hatched the plan. The  ex-cop mentioned something about how they were treated as well. 

They handwaved why the handheld (ha) was still working. Something like it is on a different server. I also liked how there was an explanation for the two holograms here. I know it's not a scifi show, but I appreciate that there is some effort or just acknowledgement that some viewers might ask those questions. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[iMonrey]

23 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I think that would be a good idea, especially as they have to know she isn't being well received. I guess we will see next season. 

Do they? I doubt very much the producers are looking at this forum. TV show runners tend to look only at social media like Twitter and Facebook and tend to ignore any criticisms in favor of the sycophants that want to pretend they are friends with them.

14 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Pull the plug".  I agree with the decision though; Ben nearly got killed. Now future QL doesn't know where Ben is.

Why? Pulling the plug on present day Ziggy does nothing to stop future Ziggy. Clearly future Ziggy is up and running or else Martinez wouldn't have all this intel on them. Nothing they do in the present can prevent whatever happens in the future which is why this premise is so problematic. They're just flying blind now, and that's not better.

[libgirl2]

Just now, iMonrey said:

Do they? I doubt very much the producers are looking at this forum. TV show runners tend to look only at social media like Twitter and Facebook and tend to ignore any criticisms in favor of the sycophants that want to pretend they are friends with them.

 

I don't know, I would think they might not look here, but what are people saying on SM? 

[ajsnaves]

36 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Do they? I doubt very much the producers are looking at this forum. TV show runners tend to look only at social media like Twitter and Facebook and tend to ignore any criticisms in favor of the sycophants that want to pretend they are friends with them.

I would almost guarantee that someone does. Lest we forget Aaron Sorkin and his journey through TWoP during The West Wing days.  As CJ did to Josh on the show, I hear NBC assigned someone to monitor to make sure Sorkin didn’t correspond anymore.  I would bet at the very least there is PA here right now.  (Waves Hello!). With that, I just read this week that they are already filming Episode 4, so if there are adjustments to be made, it would have already need to happen for those first few eps.

I really liked this episode.  I think this show is finally blending the two stories together in a cohesive way.  And I am all for rotating the holo-friend.  I would love to see Magic get in on the action too.  Was it just me, or did Ben have a bit more 5:00 shadow this week?  It really contrasted with the uniform. I do like that he seems to be getting more comfortable walking in the heals. 

[Mrs. Stanwyck]

Ian said in this episode that they wrote every line of code for Ziggy. That got me thinking about original Ziggy - where is it?  I'm sure they must have addressed it at the beginning of the series but I don't remember.  Can someone remind me?  What OZ destroyed?  I just assumed the current QL was using an updated version but that's not how it sounded.

[Nialla]

On 3/27/2023 at 11:02 PM, KaveDweller said:

My only complaint is we didn't really see the motivation for the co-pilot and the woman ex-cop hijacking a plane.

It wasn't really directly explained, but hijacking was super common at the time.

Per Wikipedia: "In a five-year period (1968–1972) the world experienced 326 hijack attempts, or one every 5.6 days. The incidents were frequent and often just an inconvenience, which resulted in television shows creating parodies."

The criminal duo would have been highly aware of this fact, and would also have better chances of getting away with it because they were familiar with the system.

Both seemed to have hit dead ends in their career, and the woman was vindictive towards her employer. Would make a skyjacking to live the good life where they couldn't be extradited sound like an easy out.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

Ian said in this episode that they wrote every line of code for Ziggy.

Ian said about writing every line for the 'restart'. That could be anything from updated encryption, parallel processing, accessing the internet (technically there was no internet for the OG), all modernized search engines, modern data analytics, training neural networks, etc. Writing all the would be a heavy lift, and I could see why Ian would be emotional about the whole plug pulling.

50 minutes ago, Nialla said:

It wasn't really directly explained, but hijacking was super common at the time.

When the episode started, and they were speculating about just a mechanical failure leading to the crash, I was surprised it *wasn't* about a hijacking at that point. 

[possibilities]

Berlanti used to read TWoP. I have no opinion about who is reading what anymore, but it's not beyond the possible that anybody reads this forum. They also probably have focus groups, and read reviews, and have other ways of getting feedback. There's a lot of money at stake, they want the ratings, so they probably have a whole team trying to figure out how to make the show popular. The opinions of this forum may or may not be the majority opinion of viewers or potential viewers, though, either way.

I don't think I've ever been on an airplane with an upstairs passenger cabin. Is that a thing that happens nowadays? I've only ever seen it in movies set in the past.

[DoctorAtomic]

Has anyone been on a plane with the spaceship seats?

[possibilities]

2 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Has anyone been on a plane with the spaceship seats?

Another thing I've only seen in movies, or on TV shows, where it's always a private jet, not a commercial airliner.

[DoctorAtomic]

No, I've been twice! It was Delta!

[Starchild]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Pulling the plug on present day Ziggy does nothing to stop future Ziggy. Clearly future Ziggy is up and running or else Martinez wouldn't have all this intel on them. Nothing they do in the present can prevent whatever happens in the future which is why this premise is so problematic. They're just flying blind now, and that's not better.

If they don't plug current Ziggy back in for a while, then future Ziggy has a blind spot that can throw in some unpredictability. And if they still have suspicions, they may not fill that gap for "him."

[Nialla]

5 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

When the episode started, and they were speculating about just a mechanical failure leading to the crash, I was surprised it *wasn't* about a hijacking at that point. 

Considering the time period and being set on a plane, my immediate reaction was it was a hijacking. I was expecting it to be just a passenger (or a group), not two employees.

It was surprising the team didn't seem to consider it an option.

I also got a laugh over Ian saying they would watch "Air Disasters" to go to sleep. I do that quite often.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, Mrs. Stanwyck said:

Ian said in this episode that they wrote every line of code for Ziggy. That got me thinking about original Ziggy - where is it?  I'm sure they must have addressed it at the beginning of the series but I don't remember.  Can someone remind me?  What OZ destroyed?  I just assumed the current QL was using an updated version but that's not how it sounded.

I don't think they ever said. But Ian said they wrote code for the relaunch, so Ziggy is based on the original, but was updated. It is not clear how, but it makes sense 20-year-old Ziggy would need updates. I'd assume some physical processing updates, but also more modernized code? Ziggy seems to work generally the same way, and it must have some parts of the original since Janice was able to access it via Al's old handheld.

Except in the original, didn't they refer to Ziggy as "she"? In this episode they just said "it."

8 hours ago, Nialla said:

It wasn't really directly explained, but hijacking was super common at the time.

Per Wikipedia: "In a five-year period (1968–1972) the world experienced 326 hijack attempts, or one every 5.6 days. The incidents were frequent and often just an inconvenience, which resulted in television shows creating parodies."

The criminal duo would have been highly aware of this fact, and would also have better chances of getting away with it because they were familiar with the system.

Both seemed to have hit dead ends in their career, and the woman was vindictive towards her employer. Would make a skyjacking to live the good life where they couldn't be extradited sound like an easy out.

I get that they felt they were at dead ends, and hated their employers, but lots of people feel like that. Most of them don't turn to crime.

[DoctorAtomic]

14 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't think they ever said. But Ian said they wrote code for the relaunch, so Ziggy is based on the original, but was updated. It is not clear how, but it makes sense 20-year-old Ziggy would need updates.

Just think about how far we've come in computing since 2003 or so. I would imagine there was a ton to do. The OG ran late 80s and early 90s; the show itself started in '1999', but they didn't have internet. In the 1991, we barely had 'Mozilla'. 

 

 

[Starchild]

17 hours ago, Nialla said:

I also got a laugh over Ian saying they would watch "Air Disasters" to go to sleep. I do that quite often.

Mayday is one of my favourites. Gimli Glider for the win!

Although I will try to avoid watching it before I actually fly.

[ramurphy2005]

On 3/29/2023 at 9:43 PM, KaveDweller said:

Except in the original, didn't they refer to Ziggy as "she"? In this episode they just said "it.

My mother often comments about that fact that they switch between 'he' and 'she' in the original depending on how the things Sam has done have impacted the present. 

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, ramurphy2005 said:

My mother often comments about that fact that they switch between 'he' and 'she' in the original depending on how the things Sam has done have impacted the present. 

Well now I feel like I have to rewatch the original to look for that.