All Episodes Discussion

[ridethemaverick]

I think the Mr. stuff was likely advice from her lawyer to make herself seem less familiar with them. Calling them by their first names makes them sound like friends (which they obviously were) and she needs to distance herself from that perception.

Didn't work on me though. They were obviously having sex. He knew exactly what buttons to push...probably told her she was sexy and he couldn't resist her which, looking at her, she's probably not heard much in her life. By all accounts Matt was charming and handsome so yeah, she fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

I feel bad for her hubby. She's garbage.

[Miss Chevious]

Well I certainly didn't believe that part in her story about the proposed stop to kill her husband. She's supposed to meet up with two escaped convicts after they exit the manhole, then their first stop is going to be her house to knock off her husband, the "glitch". Yeah right, the first thing an escaped convict is going to do is go, go, go,.Get away from the area as fast as possible. Had she gone through with showing up at the prearranged time, providing them with a vehicle and  a shotgun, there's no doubt in my mind they would have killed her immediately and proceeded with their getaway. Thank goodness she didn't follow through.

[cooksdelight]

I think she believed they were going to kill her husband, and then take her away and live happily ever after. They truly found the perfect patsy.

[walnutqueen]

I think she believed they were going to kill her husband, and then take her away and live happily ever after. They truly found the perfect patsy.

 

Just as she found the perfect patsy in her husband, who is still on her team.

[tobeannounced]

She was afraid they would kill her husband if she told about the plot to kill her husband?  Mmmkay.  I couldn't believe the privileges the two inmates had.  I don't care how well-behaved you are, I think some crimes are so heinous, you can never be trusted again.

[cooksdelight]

My own personal thought on prisons? If you are maximum security, you get a cot, a sink, a toilet and a Bible. 3 meals, an hour of exercise. Nothing else. Prison is not supposed to be like Motel 6.

If the conditions were more harsh, people might not be OK with going back there.

[walnutqueen]

My own personal thought on prisons? If you are maximum security, you get a cot, a sink, a toilet and a Bible. 3 meals, an hour of exercise. Nothing else. Prison is not supposed to be like Motel 6.

If the conditions were more harsh, people might not be OK with going back there.

 

  I'd be on board with everything except the bible - that's cruel and unusual punishment!  :-)

[applecrisp]

Just could not feel sorry for her, she is weak and not very bright but she did not care.  But the lax rules and her superiors deserve a lot of the blame. Heck they did warn her about being too close but did nothing about it.  What a failed system!

[One Tough Cookie]

I haven't finished the show yet, real life intrudes!--but from what I could see she was a smirking liar.  She thought because she managed to pull the wool over the eyes of her husband and son America is going to buy her "I was a victim too!" act.

 

No sale.  The bitch turned two psycho killers loose.  She just damn lucky they didn't kill anyone during their little adventure, because she would then be an accomplice to it.  She is facing 7 years?  I think she ought to do every damn day.

 

This "public relations" appearance didn't work.  She showed herself to be a woman who made her own rules regarding her interactions with killers. She put the entire population at risk while being dickamtized by a sadistic murderer, and she sill cannot help smirking a little about it even now.  She was looking for a little adventure and by oh boy did she get it. I can't believe her husband and son are standing by her.

 

She should do some serious time and thank her maker that no one other than that low-life Matt died.

Edited September 19, 2015 by One More Time

[cooksdelight]

dickamtized

Oooh, I found a new word to work into conversation at the next trivia night! :)

[walnutqueen]

Oooh, I found a new word to work into conversation at the next trivia night! :)

 

I think it's supposed to be "dickmatized" (dicknotized?), and it is going in my repertoire toute suite, eh.  :~)

Edited September 19, 2015 by walnutqueen

[One Tough Cookie]

Yes indeed, finger work the keyboard  faster than the mind works.

[saber5055]

I saw a promo for this episode, where she tells Matt Lauer that the convict guy told her to ... and she couldn't say it while I was yelling "Give him a BLOW JOB!" from my couch. Seeing her lying liar face smirking on my tv, and me thinking the heck, some inmate forces her to give him a blow job and she's a what? A guard or something? Someone who is suppose to be in charge? And she just let it go and DID it? And never said anything to anyone? Oh, the heck with that.

 

No way was I going to sit through an hour of listening to her BS. I hope everyone who watched came away with the same impressions as what you guys have posted here. She needs to be put away for a long, long time. Maybe some sucker guard will bring HER cookies and brownies. But I hope not.

[cooksdelight]

This is re-airing tonight on TLC if anyone wants to catch it. 9 pm eastern.

[Meowwww]

Ahhhhhhh!!!! She is the lyingest liar who ever lied. It wasn't consensual, my butt.

Add me to the crew distracted by the Herpes sore.

Apparently the one guy grabbed her and kissed her against her will....because she is so attractive? He couldn't resist? Yeah.....

Liar liar.

[ElleBee]

The whole interview made me angry but I feel like the worst part was at the end, when she was sobbingly giving the moral of the story as "this will happen again to other compassionate people" as if it's all just because she was too nice and motherly and really any overly compassionate person could do the same. If she's so off-the-charts compassionate, where was her compassion for the victims of these murderers? Where was her compassion for other potential future victims, once these guys got out? She seemed very worried for herself, and questionably worried for her husband, but I don't believe she gave a moment's thought at all to the people these guys would potentially victimize once they were free.

 

There were so many questionable statements, and she was clearly eleven bulbs short of a dozen, but was she really trying to sell us that she was making it safer for her husband by helping them escape, especially after they told her outright that their first order of business would be to push him off a cliff? Sure, honey--you go on convincing yourself that you had his best interest at heart. What I saw was an unattractive, needy woman who bought into that these guys had fallen for her and that they'd kill her husband and then whisk her off to Costa Rica, where they could all live happily ever after in a grass hut on the beach. Fortunately for her gullible husband, she either grew a conscience (albeit way too late) or finally realized that they were probably going to kill her as soon as she handed over the vehicle.

[ChristmasJones]

The moment she smiled when asked about her husband knowing whether or not she had baked cookies/brownies for the inmates was such a perfect example of duper's delight -

 

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/lying/dupers_delight.htm

[saber5055]

While I can't believe one word out of this person's mouth, did she give a reason why her husband was targeted to be murdered? And what her role was to be in the escape, was she promised a life of luxury being the concubine of those two murderers?

 

I did see the end, where she tearfully said others would be snookered by murder-convicted inmates just like she was. All I could think was, REALLY? Not me, sister.

 

Oh yeah: And did the hubby know about her bringing in the baked goods? Not that we can believe what she answered to that question. I hate shows where the obviously guilty are given their Andy Warhol 15 minutes to lie about what great and honest people they are. Someone somewhere believes them, no doubt.

 

ETA: Was she asked how she felt about the one escapee being killed because of her? 

Edited September 20, 2015 by saber5055

[UsernameFatigue]

First of all I must say I wish Keith Morrison had been conducting the interview - no one does incredulous looks like Keith. And there were certainly many many places where they were warrented.

 

Like others, I don't for a minute believe the 'poor me, I was just protecting my husband' crap. These guys were wayyy wayyy smarter than Joyce, and played her perfectly. I did like that Matt asked her why they would kill her hubby AFTER she has helped them escape? I also thought it was odd that twice it was brought up that Joyce's husband knew the two criminals quite well - once when the police wanted to question both Joyce and her hubby for that reason, and when they said Sweat liked Joyce's husband and did not like the way she treated him. Did she start having her hubby visit them because they were such nice guys? WTH? Also I believe Sweat that it was Joyce's idea to kill her hubby as she seemed quite happy to run off with these two until she got cold feet.

 

I also can't believe that SHE believed that she was going to live with Sweat when they escaped because apparently she is such a hot babe that he really wanted her. Sheesh. She really is a dim bulb.

 

One thing that I noticed when Laurer was talking to her about not showing up to pick them up when they escaped. Her face was perfectly fine. Then he says to her that obviously they were going to kill her as they had no reason to keep her around. When they cut back to Joyce her face was bright red and wet with tears. Obviously there was some editing there in between those two questions/comments. It made me wonder if Matt said something similar and she broke down thinking that these guys she had been infatuated with really were using her. Just looked very odd to me - there was obviously something cut.

 

Obviously the prison has a big problem when Joyce could take in cookies, brownies, raw hamburger (?) hiding hack saws, etc. and never once be checked. They apparently don't even use a metal detector - she likely could have brought in a gun for heaven's sake. On top of that the inmates are apparently running the asylum.

 

Whenever they showed the outside of the prison I kept thinking those poor people who lived a block away and right where the manhole cover was. Yikes. Scary enough to live that close to a prison but to know someone can escape and turn up pretty much on your doorstep? Yikes.

 

Lastly I wanted to slap Joyce when she kept saying that you can't be a nice person like she was and work in the prison. I have a nephew in law who is a prison guard and he is a very nice person with a lovely family.  But he is a professional, had extensive training and knows boundaries. Maybe the prison needs to look at their hiring practices and have someone who is more qualified than a high school dropout with some experience in a factory and a course saying 'don't make friends with the killer prisoners', to have a position like she was given.

Edited September 22, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[ridethemaverick]

If they do a movie, George Clooney is perfect for the role of Matt.

[Miss Chevious]

Joyce could have stopped this runaway freight train a whole lot sooner. When pressed by Matt Lauer, she grudgingly admitted she was told not to cross the line at one point by one of her bosses. But she didn't. She chose not to heed the warning, she chose to throw common sense out the window and continue flirting, bringing in treats, etc. then going along with the whole plot as it escalated. I don't feel sorry for her in the least. I feel sorry for the taxpayers that have to bear the brunt of the cost of pursuing these human scumbags. It took 21 days to track them down, at a cost of one million dollars a day in manpower and resources.

 

That being said, the prison was way too lax in not checking employees bags, purses, etc. It makes no sense for them to establish rules then not enforce them. But then again, someone as determined as she was would have stuffed hacksaw blades in her pants instead. It will be interesting to see the outcome of her sentencing, I hope she gets the maximum. 

 

I found it ironic she was wearing the same type of prison stripes that she had spent years sewing for others.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Miss Chevious

[Lovecat]

I found ironic she was wearing the same type of prison stripes that she had spent years sewing for others.

I found it ironic (and distracting, honestly) that the stripes on the top didn't match up when the shirt was buttoned. Made me wonder if someone was messing with her by giving her a shirt that failed quality control ;)

[JudyObscure]

If the prisoners are grilling burgers on the inside then that's just one more thing the powers that be are looking the other way over.    I always wondered how so much drugs managed to get through to the prisoners and now I know.  I don't understand the way they run prisons at all.  Women guards in the men's section and male guards over the women?  That's how Susan Smith got pregnant. Prison could be a chance to get completely off drugs, quit smoking, give up sugar, get healthy, learn some useful skills, and some of the things a lot of them missed like how to read. 

 

I've heard it said that they use things like cigarettes as a control for good behavior, but they could use other things like movies  for that.  I don't understand stuff like computer access, weight lifting areas, tattoo parlors, hair salons, and TVs on all the time.  If they must have their own TV they can have earphones to use with them.  It's like life back on the streets only with free food, shelter and cable.

 

What chaos it must be if those two men could work on filing a huge hole night after night and no on noticed. All those things that they're allowed to have and do must result in cruel and unusual punishment for anyone who has a low noise tolerance.

[applecrisp]

I could never be a prison guard or work in a prison.

[JudyObscure]

I have a temper fit every time my husband or son leaves the toilet lid up -- not just the seat, but the lid -- because I don't want to see inside to the water.  I would be on continuous suicide watch over the open toilets.

[saber5055]

Good on you, Judy. I'm the same way about toilet lids. The argument about seat up or down means nothing because it's LIDS DOWN in my house.

It's like life back on the streets only with free food, shelter and cable.

 

 

Amen. Prisoners have more luxuries than I do, and I have to pay for mine. And for theirs.

[Miss Chevious]

If they do a movie, George Clooney is perfect for the role of Matt.

And Ed Norton would be perfect for Sweat. Very similar in looks. Hollywood, are you listening?

[saber5055]

Since you guys are casting a movie, who plays Joyce? Because she needs more than her allotted 15 minutes.

[cooksdelight]

Lena Dunham?

[saber5055]

You guys are way too generous. I'm thinking three character actors with looks along the lines of Steve Buscemi. For Joyce, too. Steve could play two roles.

[JudyObscure]

I doubt if there's anyone in Hollywood quite right for the role.

 

ETA Perfect , Saber!

Edited September 22, 2015 by JudyObscure

[UsernameFatigue]

I think Steve should play all of the parts. He would be great as Joyce's husband. They both have that 'not a bad looking guy with not great teeth' thing going on.

[callmebetty]

Don't hate me but I've thought that the husband reminds me of Adam Sandler's character from the Waterboy. So I say Adam Sandler for him. And please nobody even slightly attractive for those two psychopaths.

[cooksdelight]

Kathy Bates going cockadoodie do?

[glowlights]

First of all I must say I wish Keith Morrison had been conducting the interview - no one does incredulous looks like Keith. And there were certainly many many places where they were warrented.

 

Or Josh Mankiewcz (sp?). I wanted to see him slouched on a chair, one eyebrow raised, with that sarcastic look he gets.

 

(Add me to the "toilet lids down" team. Flushing with the lid up is beyond gross.)

[cooksdelight]

Quote

Susan Casey, a loving mother of four vanishes just 20 steps from her apartment in a small Montana town. Police soon discover that three men in her life were on her street in the early morning hour when she disappeared.

[Monkeybball]

I gotta say, I'm a little dismayed with all the comments about her looks.  Of COURSE she's not some beautiful sexy goddess - she's a 51 year old GRANDMOTHER from Upstate Bumblefuck New York!  But that's all the more reason she was easily swindled by these men.  I don't think she had any delusions about her being some super irresistible or desirable - I think she just enjoyed the attention.  By all accounts Richard Matt was a very charming guy, pretty handsome, and "very well endowed" as one cop put it.  Imagine being an older woman, not particularly attractive, living in the middle of nowhere, somewhat restless....of COURSE she was easy to manipulate!  

 

I don't think she was a monster.  I think she was INCREDIBLY stupid.  And I do believe that she took a certain amount of joy in the "danger" and "excitement" of it all.  But that doesn't mean that these men weren't master manipulators who knew exactly what they were doing.  

 

By the way...I've NEVER heard of "civilian" employees working in a prison before.  Only time we saw that in Orange is the New Black, for example, was this past season when they were selling panties for that company.  And C.O.s were always there.  Is this actually a normal thing?  

Edited September 24, 2015 by Monkeybball

[saber5055]

By the way...I've NEVER heard of "civilian" employees working in a prison before.  Only time we saw that in Orange is the New Black, for example, was this past season when they were selling panties for that company.  And C.O.s were always there.  Is this actually a normal thing?

 

 

I don't know if that's normal, but it is kinda funny using a fictional television show for real-life reference!

 

A prison built near me has been empty for several years because of state funding, political tie ups, blah blah. It is now starting to be filled with prisoners, and the news says more than 1,100 civilian jobs will open up once the prison is going full steam. So I'd say yeah, lots of civilians are employed by the state prison system.

[Monkeybball]

I don't know if that's normal, but it is kinda funny using a fictional television show for real-life reference!

 

A prison built near me has been empty for several years because of state funding, political tie ups, blah blah. It is now starting to be filled with prisoners, and the news says more than 1,100 civilian jobs will open up once the prison is going full steam. So I'd say yeah, lots of civilians are employed by the state prison system.

 

I don't get it... well I guess maybe there aren't enough people in the Correctional Officer business.  It just seems like NOT A GOOD IDEA!!!! to have civilians working in a prison.  

[saber5055]

I'm thinking, the way Joyce was so easily manipulated, it wouldn't have mattered if she were a civilian employee or NYS Correctional Department employee, the end result would have been the same. People can change the title on their business cards but not their personalities or mental make up.

 

Maybe if the corrections people had been doing their jobs, this couldn't have happened? But a job is a job is a job, whether one is a doctor, lawyer or guard in a prison. Some are good at their jobs, others are not.

[Monkeybball]

I don't know why the harping on her looks bothers me so much - I mean, it's not like the guys had the Victoria's Secret Catalog to choose from!  

[CaughtOnTape]

Matt Lauer cracked me up.  He didn't believe a damn word coming out of her mouth and he couldn't hide it. 

 

She's a liar from the word go.  What a disgusting human being.  She's very lucky they didn't kill anyone.

[glowlights]

I don't know why the harping on her looks bothers me so much - I mean, it's not like the guys had the Victoria's Secret Catalog to choose from!  

 

I hear what you're saying. Her actions provide more than enough fodder.

[glowlights]

Dateline ran this promo:

http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/video/preview-footprint-in-the-dust-529404995865

I spent most of last night praying that Keith Morrison will end up at a Grey Gardens-esque house and be forced to spend the hour with half-feral cats crawling all over him, being plied with dusty mystery snacks by a crazy lady wearing hot pants on her head. Please please please...

Edited September 25, 2015 by cooksdelight

[cooksdelight]

Fixed, and changed our thread title to reflect this. I do wish they'd put out reliable information sooner than the day of the episode.

[saber5055]

I don't know why the harping on her looks bothers me so much - I mean, it's not like the guys had the Victoria's Secret Catalog to choose from!

 

 

Those guys weren't picking her for her looks anyway, they needed a patsy. Her looks just made her their patsy. A woman with VS-model looks probably wouldn't have fallen for their manipulations, or have needed to. So I think a frank discussion of Joyce's appearance is directly related to a discussion of why those two chose her over some other female prison employee. If Joyce felt good about herself, she couldn't have been manipulated and swayed by those smooth-talking murderers. People believe what they want to believe, whether it's true or not. I'm guessing those two inmates made her feel good about herself for the first time in a long time, if ever.

 

Of course, it didn't last long.

Edited September 25, 2015 by saber5055

[cooksdelight]

I agree. A discussion of her appearance is in direct correlation as to why she did what she did. She loved the attention, and the promise of a more exciting life than what she had. If she looked like Cindy Crawford, A) she most likely wouldn't be working in a prison and B) she'd never give those two dolts the time of day.

[saber5055]

It's a sad commentary on the feminine psyche and how women in general are treated by society, and why. Sad but true.

[cooksdelight]

It is sad, but true. Ask me and my 50+ female friends all about it. :)

[Monkeybball]

Oh I totally agree that her looks made her the perfect patsy.  That's part of why she loved the attention.  BUT I think it's unnecessarily mean to make fun of her like "how could you ever think they'd ACTUALLY be into you?!"

 

(I mean of course it's true that they weren't, but...)