All Episodes Discussion

[cooksdelight]

Re-airing Friday night at 10 pm eastern.

[Ohmo]

I have a question, and I'm not sure where to put it.  I'm going with here.

 

The Fall season is almost here, so we should be getting new episodes soon.  Problem is, Dateline's schedule is always freaky.  Has NBC announced anything in terms of a schedule yet?

[cooksdelight]

No, not that I am aware and believe me... I stay on top of this show more than others I am responsible for. I check the schedule each week, and they usually don't give a synopsis until the day of or day before it airs. I will let you all know if I find out anything going forward.

[saber5055]

I watched last night as this one was new to me. But what does this mean:

 

"Cops find a picture of Amyjane and Karen together on the same August date of Amyjane's murder, but 2 years prior to the murder, at a church function.  Cops & church folks find this a weird coincidence."

 

Out of all the women in Pendleton, how and why did the killer pick out another woman from that same church? I found 31 different churches in Pendleton proper in a google search. Police like to say there is no such thing as a coincidence.

 

Plus the killer was a missionary's son. Another church connection. What was up with all that? None of that was explained, there HAD to have been a connection.

 

And how could the killer have been living in the ceiling of the convention center for a year without anyone knowing? Don't they lock the doors? People just sit around in there drinking Cokes? If the cops hadn't put out his photo, he would have been ignored again, sitting with his drink in the cafeteria/lunch room.

 

And the cops recognized him and thought he was Danny Wu. What, they never asked for his license with his real name?

 

So many questions left unanswered.

 

ETA: The cops emphasized how busy the town is, more than 50 people walked by the motel during the hour they were there. So, one year later, how did the killer select that one woman to follow and attack with a pipe? There HAD to be a connection. If he wanted to kill someone on the anniversary date, why another woman from that same church? Why not one of the hundreds (or thousands) of other women? These questions bug me!

Edited August 29, 2015 by saber5055

[Ina123]

I need to add to my post above about William Macumber. Seems he was arrested in Colorado, accused of doing something inappropriate to his granddaughters. The story just gets stranger. I'm waiting for 48 Hours or Dateline to do an update to this whole mess.

I just saw an update after the replay of this epidode. It was replayed on "Dateline on ID". As we all recall, his youngest son had gradually been convinced over the years that his father was innocent and that his mother had framed his father, Bill Macumber. The son worked with Innocent Project to get him out. The clemency board unanimously voted to let him out but AZ governor, Jan Brewer, denied the clemency petition, They allowed Macumber to plea "no contest" and they let him out. His son, Ron, who had changed his name after his father went to prison, changed it back to Macumber and his father came to live with Ron and his family. That was the end of the episode as seen previously on NBC's Dateline. Everything peachy keen.

 

At the end of the repeat on ID a black screen was posted with the new info. Last fall Bill Macumber was convicted of sexual assault on Ron's 2 girls, his grandchildren and was sentenced to 8 years. Ron has completely disavowed his father and wants nothing more to do with him. Innocent Project says though convicted of this sexual assault  they stand behind their findings that Macumber did not commit the murders in the desert and was framed by his wife.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Ina123

[grumpypanda]

Going to play Devils advocate here. Sure it was wrong of the mom to run, but I'm always suspicious of dads who fight for full custody.

I know it's not a popular opinion but I agree with you. I believe a small baby should be with its mother full time unless the mother is completely incompetent. In this case, I don't believe that the mom was so out of it that she couldn't properly care for her child. If he was really worried about the baby then maybe he could have tried to get his ex help instead of destroying her life. Why not a 50/50 custody split? I think the dad wanted to win and he didn't care who got hurt including his daughter.

I have a small baby so this story really hit a nerve with me. If I were in that situation I would have ran too. No way am I only going to see my baby four days a month.

Edited September 2, 2015 by grumpypanda

[cooksdelight]

 

When Amber Dubois vanished in San Diego County, a search turned up nothing. Then, a year later, Chelsea King disappeared in a neighboring town. Dateline's Keith Morrison reports on the mystery of the missing California teens.

 

[cooksdelight]

This episode is re-airing on Friday night, 9/4, at 10 pm eastern.

[grumpypanda]

This case left me disturbed too. The janitor might have done it but the evidence really wasn't there. It's scary that a person can be convicted based on the theory that the police couldn't come up with another suspect. This isn't a game of Clue, this is someone's actual life.

Lie detectors are bullshit and that's why there not allowed in court. They're basically just a tool that police use to intimidate people. I'm shocked that the police would eliminate a viable suspect because they passed a lie detector.

[editorgrrl]

This episode originally aired September 24, 2010. The case was also featured on 48 Hours (“Taken: The Amber Dubois Story”) and in a book, Lost Girls by Caitlin Rother. Chelsea King's brother Tyler made a 2014 documentary, Chelsea's Light.

[cooksdelight]

Well, it showed up as "new" on my DVR and also on the TV listings. If you have future information on shows, please PM me in advance. Thanks!

[saber5055]

This episode showed up as "new" for me, too, so I watched. I remember seeing some of the Amber part, the killer leading the detectives to where she was buried. However, that show (whatever one it was) did not mention the lamb/FFA school connection, I def would have remembered that, plus the Chelsea part was all new to me. I would have remembered the mud-covered killer being found at Hernando's Hide Away. Amber's mom going to talk to the killer in prison also was new. I could totally relate to her actions, reactions and feelings in wanting to know what happened.

 

Not much mystery to this episode. It just left me feeling depressed, that someone can do what this guy did. So many people like him are "out there" these days, he's becoming "normal" in our society.

[callmebetty]

Not to mention how easily he fell through the cracks of the parole system. Those poor girls (all of his victims) lost so much due to an inept system. I love the dig the girl who got away gave him.

It is scary to think how many more people like him are out there and if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time there is nothing to protect you.

[cooksdelight]

He scared me. Period. I know there are many, many others just like him....walking around among us....

[callmebetty]

I forgot to add that psychiatrist who said he was not treatable. He was just a bad person who would do bad things.

I've always felt that way that there are some people who are just evil and they really just born that way.

[saber5055]

Okay, so I watched the repeat last night, which was a first viewing for me. None of the "things" that happened to the victim were told on this episode, nothing about the broken arm, bag over the head, hands bound ... I learned that from the posts above. The convicted killer said he agreed to a polygraph; the detectives said he wouldn't take one. Then the narrator said they just never got around to it. WHAT? Dogs were used to scent vehicles, including the husband's, but no dog was used to scent in the janitor's red truck? WHAT?

 

How can salaried employees "double dip" or triple dip by using a time card? Is that place so large that a fake employee has been fake hired with the salary going to the janitor's fake bank account? How can that happen? Another big WHAT? that was not explained.

 

A janitor would have keys to offices, right? Then why not come in EARLIER or LATER than some shift to steal time cards, IF that is what the motive was. Although I find it really hard to believe someone was stealing time cards to cover up a triple or double dip. There are payroll records, right? Did no one check those?

 

Why would a husband come to the wife's work to kill her where other people were around? Wouldn't that extra vehicle be on the video camera?

 

Did anyone search the janitor's house? Take a scent dog in there to sniff for blood? Of course not, because by the time they thought he might have done it, if he did, all evidence was long gone disposed of.

 

Did the janitor's wife also work there? That was not revealed on this episode, unless I just missed it.

 

Torn pants ... WHAT? How did he tear them, and where are they? Threw them away? WHAT? Can't sew them back up? If I'm at work and have to go home for something, like torn pants, I tell a co-worker, hey, I'm heading home to change THESE that I just tore. Be back in a few minutes. I can do that because I'm salaried and don't have to punch in and out. So he didn't say anything to anyone about leaving WHY?

 

I thought a perfect reason for leaving would be to run to MacDonald's for a breakfast biscuit. Do the drive thru, keep the receipt, then say he went to a park to eat breakfast, some place where there was no CC. If janitor DID kill the woman, he would know he would be a suspect so that receipt could be his alibi. Especially since his wife wasn't such a great one.

 

In all, a very unsatisfactory episode. So much left out, which is becoming a Dateline trademark. I get the feeling prosecutors want to just put someone in jail to make their quota for the month and, thereby, keep their own salaries coming in for doing "good work."

Edited September 5, 2015 by saber5055

[editorgrrl]

I know that 48 Hours did this case, but it was several years ago before Paige's body had been found.

48 Hours updated their 2008 episode, "The Secret Life of Paige Birgfeld," on September 5. Paige's three children are living with their father on the east coast. Lester Ralph Jones's trial is expected to begin in early 2016.

$6,000 is a lot of money. $72,000 a year. Plus all the other costs associated with owning a home.

Did we ever hear how much child support she was getting?

48 Hours said $500 per month.

Edited September 6, 2015 by editorgrrl

[Ohmo]

I really tired of the 48 Hours episode, and I've decided that I don't like Paige Bergfeld.  This is going to sound harsh.  I don't think that Paige deserved to be killed, but I do think that it is her fault that she's dead.  For those who read this and think that I'm victim blaming, you're absolutely right.  I am because Paige deserves some of the blame.  To hear her friends saying, "Oh, she was doing what she had to do for her kids."  That is a total crock.  We've already talked about the fact that she didn't need to live in that house.  Plenty of divorced parents live with their children in spaces that are smaller than 6,000 square feet and don't have pools.  Then we heard in this update that this was the second time that Paige had done this.  She made $400,000 and bought a house years ago.  I tried to have empathy for her father, but it got old listening to him describe his daughter like she was a cross between Betty Crocker and Mother Teresa.  Crime is wrong.  It should not happen, but just because it should not happen doesn't mean it will not happen.  Personal responsibility has to kick in somewhere because all punishment will do is punish the offender, not reverse the offense.  If anyone knowingly engages in behavior that has inherent risk in it (like the race car driver who was killed recently), then I believe that person takes on some of the responsibility should anything bad happen to him or her.  Jones should not have killed Paige, but Paige should also have had enough sense to not be a complete idiot.

[Jpxfactor]

She was greedy and selfish and throw in a lot of stupid.

[cooksdelight]

A young Iowa man is shot dead in his bed in the middle of the night, asleep next to his fiancée. Who would want him dead - and why? Bizarre coincidences and quick thinking help lead to a surprising answer.

[SAMWISEG]

Hi all,

I made this account simply to inquire about this specific episode. I watch a lot of Dateline and 48 Hours, but I just went through all the 48 Hours episodes and can't seem to find this story. It has been bugging me all day that I can't remember the name of the young man who was murdered, or the location where it took place.

He was a young man who was a musician, I believe a drummer, and he had gone out to get his hungover or ill girlfriend food, and somehow picked up or was kidnapped by a man who murdered him and left his body in an abandoned house. The interviews were with his parents, his girlfriend, and his bandmates, who played a sweet song for him at the end of the episode.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I have tried to find it on Google but cannot locate anything about it, and that has only made me more frustrated lol

Thanks in advance!

[cooksdelight]

Hi, and welcome! The episode was called "Taken" and I changed the title of the thread to reflect that. You can read more about it here:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39239780/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/taken-not-forgotten/

[walnutqueen]

Interesting episode.  The "drug induced violence/insanity" defense would've worked a lot better if it hadn't been anti-depressants the shrink was trying to blame; not to mention all the planning that went into this crime.  That accident and the cop who responded was a lucky break for the investigation.

[JudyObscure]

That was one of the best episodes in a while. I wasn't sure which man was the killer until it was almost over. I felt so sorry for the young woman who felt guilty for bringing this man into her fiancée's life. Reasonable or not, I would have felt the same way. Keith was very sweet to her.

[LGGirl]

The planning the killer did for the murder was chilling. He thought about this for a long time. That's what got me. IDK how anyone could have thought he was insane because of his careful planning of the murder. He was just pure evil.

I felt bad for the other former boyfriend who was thrown into the mix. I would have been freaking out and hiring a lawyer.

Sad case all around. This story could make a good movie, though.

[saber5055]

I agree with Judy, this was one of the best episodes. It was so different. Right away, police were on top of the crime and the suspect was found. We only had a short bit of "the girlfriend did it." I find that always so irritating, especially this time when the woman detective fingered the mom and girlfriend because they "were not emotional enough." WTH? Do women have to break down and cry their eyes out? We've all heard those fakety fake 911 calls the killer makes after he/she has fake-found the body he/she has just killed and is blaming an intruder. Plus a mom and girlfriend teaming up to kill a son and fiancé? I don't think so.

 

Anyway. It was a great coincidence the killer ended up in that ditch and the cop put two and two together to ask him if he'd just come from Grimes. The gun seller was excellent having all those records, but I wondered why no one said anything about checking the license-plate number the gun seller had written down. Who was the car registered to? Was it the same car that was in the ditch?

 

The cops impounded the ditch car (why wasn't it towed to David's house, or to a repair shop?) so knew it belonged to David. Yet David planted all the evidence against the old boyfriend near that same ditch. The heck? After all his elaborate planning, that wasn't very smart of him.

 

Good on Iowa for having an auto life-w/o-parole standing sentence so we didn't have to suffer through any pangs of remorse for sentencing the guy to that in a separate court session.

 

I cannot imagine the continued guilt everyone feels in this case. Everyone except the killer, that is, although he showed remorse in court for not wearing gloves when handling that flashlight battery. If the woman had never gone to that bar or met the killer, if the gun seller had never sold that gun, if they had installed CC to catch the guy who keyed the car and destroyed the fruit trees in the back yard ... the list goes on. The gun seller mentioned being in therapy. I'd have to see a therapist every week for the rest of my life if I were part of that family.

 

Well done, Dateline, best episode ever.

Edited September 12, 2015 by saber5055

[Lizzing]

I, too, was getting very frustrated at the start of the episode when the cops were suspicious of the fiance and the victim's mother because they were "not emotional" in questioning.  First, like saber5055 says, when would a fiance and her soon to be MIL conspire to kill the son, especially since the couple was only together a few months?  Second, the mom said she'd been in the squad car for 3 hours after the murder and prior to getting to the police station to be questioned.  Three hours is long enough to calm down and, were it me, I'd be more pissed at the cops for making me wait to tell my story, than a sobbing mess. 

 

I still think it's extra hinky that the killer worked in the same cubicle as the victim.   Maybe his family name got him placed at Wells Fargo where he wanted, so he could stalk the victim?

[callmebetty]

So glad I have this one taped. I only caught the end but this seems like an episode that was worth the two hours.

[walnutqueen]

So glad I have this one taped. I only caught the end but this seems like an episode that was worth the two hours.

 

One of the few in recent memory that actually warranted the 2 hour slot.  It was a good story, callmebetty.

[saber5055]

I still think it's extra hinky that the killer worked in the same cubicle as the victim.   Maybe his family name got him placed at Wells Fargo where he wanted, so he could stalk the victim?

 

 

I know. I wanted to learn more about that "coincidence." Because no way was it a coincidence. I wish a HR guy from Wells Fargo would have been interviewed, or some co-workers. For sure SOMEONE had to notice something hinky going on there.

[biakbiak]

I was both super annoyed about the detectives commenting on the fiancee and mothers demeanor and his questioning her about why she never brought up Dave. It was an hour or two after her fiancee had just been murdered beside her and they were asking about relationships not a dude she hooked up with a few times after drinking at bars 11 months prior. I was shocked when she came up with his last name, I could completely see forgetting it. She probably didn't even have his full name in her phone but the cops and Keith made it seem really odd that she couldn't remember it instantly. I bet the reason she knew it at all was because Dave brought her up to Justin when they worked together.

Was I the only person who thought it odd that a police officer on the way to work, even if it was in a different county, just left a dude alone on the side of the road at 4 am, I mean he did call for another unit but it still seemed odd. The second officer and the office person who recognized his name deserve all the credit for cracking the case.

The fact that they arrested and charged Dave within 15 hours of the murder made me question the need for the episode to be two hours with what was shown. Ireally wanted to hear from Andrew about how he felt being set up in such a detailed manner, that would have made the extra time worth it.

There is no way in hell I would have been able to choose between Dave and Andrew in a photo lineup, yes I know they weren't in the same photo array but once I saw the second one I would be confused and a bad witness.

Edited September 12, 2015 by biakbiak

[JudyObscure]

Saber: I find that always so irritating, especially this time when the woman detective fingered the mom and girlfriend because they "were not emotional enough." WTH? Do women have to break down and cry their eyes out?

I know. First they thought it was odd she wasn't sobbing more and then they thought it was odd she couldn't remember an old boyfriend's last name. They can't have it both ways. I think I would be just like that young woman, too much in shock and disbelief to cry, but my brain too stunned to remember names. Plus, it's my lasting fear that a crisis will come up and I won't have my glasses. I wouldn't ask the man's mother to go in that room and get them for me, though.

Does anyone else think it's sort of odd that police, mourners, etc. seem to give more sympathetic attention to the wives than the mothers. The young woman had known her fiancée for a few months and while I'm sure her situation is sad, even tragic -- that was the older woman's baby boy in there! To me, losing a child is number one worst thing ever. YMMV

[UsernameFatigue]

I can kind of understand the police being suspicious of the girlfriend when she was being questioned at the police station (and the fact that she was lying right beside the guy when he was killed yet did not have a drop of blood on her). I also thought it was odd (and incredibly insensitive!) that she asked Justin's mother to go into the bedroom where her dead son is laying to get her glasses. In the footage they showed she was very animatedly talking like she was there for nothing more serious than maybe a witness to a minor traffic accident. And unfortuntely we have seen many cases where the girlfriend/wife IS involved and that is exactly how she acts. However thinking the mother might be involved was a bit much.

 

I have to say the girlfriend did drive me nuts when she continually dabbed her eye(s) - it almost looked phony. I mostly felt sorry for the parents who lost their son due to his falling in love with a woman whose ex was a cold blooded killer. And yes, I agree with you JudyObscure - the girlfriend (engaged and wedding pending aside) hadn't even been with Justin for a year. Maybe he was the love of her life, maybe they would have been divorced in a year. They weren't together long enough to really know since the first year of a relationship is generally a honeymoon phase, married or not. But Justin's mother had been his mother for his entire life.

 

I do agree it was one of the better episodes though - the extent that the guy went to to set up the ex ex boyfriend was pretty amazing. Hard to believe that a lawyer would go for an insanity defense given that it was obvious the guy was quite clear thinking and devious in the extent of his planning. Sad too that I guess if you pay someone enough he will testify as an expert witness to pretty much anything.

Edited September 13, 2015 by UsernameFatigue

[punkypower]

Denise Lee. Eyewitnesses and Denise herself called 911 numerous times within a couple hours after her kidnapping but due to some incompetencies and rerouting issues among 911 dispatches over different counties, the necessary authorities weren't notified and she ended up being murdered despite all the attempted calls to save her. I think 4 or 5 calls to 911 were made in total.

I saw this one a little while ago. How unfathomable on everything Denise did and everything others did to help her and yet she still suffered and was murdered!!

Warning: the YT of Denise's 911 call may be hard for some to sit through.

https://youtu.be/naEkIoWvK9o

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Denise_Amber_Lee

Edited September 13, 2015 by punkypower

[Morbs]

I've been on anti-depressants that made me much more aggressive than I normally am. Of course, I knew that was a huge problem and switched. It's one of the main reasons my doctors think I am more likely Bi-polar 2, but really labels in psych can be so meaningless. And definitely anti-depressants can make you extremely suicidal, or even like obsessed with gambling sometimes. Definitely not a murder defense in this case though.

The guy who sold the gun was extremely responsible, but I do hold him somewhat morally responsible, just not legally, for the murder. No one in the US should own a gun like that, and they should not be selling them on the internet. I don't care what the laws say. Gun culture can be fun, shooting ranges even hunting if you are responsible, but when you start buying weapons like that it has gone too far if you ask me. It's like us, we love true crime, but now if we started buying serial killer memorabilia and stalking real life victims to meet them, our hobby has gone too far, IMO.

I completely agree best case in awhile, and Keith was pretty funny and good too.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Morbs

[saber5055]

Plus, it's my lasting fear that a crisis will come up and I won't have my glasses. I wouldn't ask the man's mother to go in that room and get them for me, though.

 

 

Yeah, that was very odd, plus the fact that the cops let the mom back in the murder room was just as odd, it's crime scene. And why not have a cop bring the glasses instead of making the mom look at her dead son again. Because you know she had to.

 

It's impossible to erase things you've seen. The image of her dead son will stay with the mom forever.

 

Yeah, my sympathy lies mostly with the mom, who lost a son. The girlfriend, however, might have a pretty difficult time with starting or maintaining (or ending) any relationship in her future. So there's that for her.

and the fact that she was lying right beside the guy when he was killed yet did not have a drop of blood on her

 

 

It was said Justin was shot at close range, execution-style, four bullets I think it was stated. The mom said she could see a bullet hole in his head. Someone shot point-blank would not have a lot of, if any at all, "splatter," so I can entirely believe this was possible. Was there blood splatter elsewhere in the room? Never said, but I doubt it, it just doesn't happen at close range. BEHIND Justin's body and head there would be blood, but elsewhere? No.

 

I can believe the girlfriend not remembering Dave's name, especially his last name. I've dated guys for a length of time and for the life of me, I can't remember first OR last of some of them, and can't remember last names of several. The cops could have checked her cell records though, for calls/texts coming in/going out.

 

Maybe a lesson here is, it's bad form to break up via text.

Was I the only person who thought it odd that a police officer on the way to work, even if it was in a different county, just left a dude alone on the side of the road at 4 am, I mean he did call for another unit but it still seemed odd.

 

 

I thought it was odd, too, since he's a cop and could have reported into his unit to say where he was. But maybe he's got a real stinker for a captain or there was some other HR reason he had to be to work on time. Being a cop is a job with rules too.

Edited September 13, 2015 by saber5055

[UsernameFatigue]

It was said Justin was shot at close range, execution-style, four bullets I think it was stated.

 

I missed that, but my point was more to the police being suspicious of her right away when questioning - the way she was acting on top of no spatter. I would assume at that point they did not have info as to how many times he was shot or range though I could be wrong.

[biakbiak]

I missed that, but my point was more to the police being suspicious of her right away when questioning - the way she was acting on top of no spatter. I would assume at that point they did not have info as to how many times he was shot or range though I could be wrong.

Given he was arrested 15 hours after the murder I wonder how long the questioning took.

[grumpypanda]

I'll never forget the Denise Lee case because it happened so close to my home. I remember watching the news footage while they were still searching for her. This case makes me to mad because there were so many opportunities for her to be saved. The murderer even took her to a relative's house (I think is was his brother) while she was still alive and the relative didn't do anything to save her. He actually saw her tied up in his car and let him drive off. I can't even watch this episode any more because I get so angry watching it.

Edited September 15, 2015 by grumpypanda

[Irritable]

It's so nice to come here and read reasonable people's opinions about this harrowing episode.  I follow Dateline on Facebook, broke my NEVER READ THE COMMENTS rule for some reason, and was completely shocked to see people - and I think the ones I saw were all women - saying that even though the fiancée and mother didn't do it, they still found it weird/fishy/suspicious that they weren't hysterical when they called 911, or during questioning.  There was also some criticism that she went around the house looking to find how the killer got in, because according to these people, she should have been sitting by her fiancée's body instead.  The phrase "I can't even with this!" kept running through my mind.  That's the takeaway from all this for some people? That the victims should still be under a cloud of suspicion?  Makes me feel crazy. 

 

I don't personally believe that if she had broken up with the guy face to face or over the phone instead of texting that things would necessarily be different now.  They had a few Friday night booty calls, and had never even spoken on the phone besides texting.  She had no reason to think his perception of their "relationship" was anything more serious than hers, and from her perspective, texting felt appropriate.  He was clearly already obsessing over her before that even happened, because he knew enough information about her ex-boyfriend to steal items from him in order to frame him later.  I can't think of any guy I've ever dated who wanted to know any details about my previous boyfriends.  They might know their first name, at the most, but to know his full name, where to find him, burglarize his car, create a fake ID in his name, etc., shows that this freak was already taking notes in anticipation of their eventual breakup.  I agree that there is no way him getting a job right next to her fiancée was a coincidence, either.  He's insane in the most dangerous of ways - the kind that allows him to function and appear as a completely normal person who can move about easily among the masses, doing weird things but not creating any real red flags, when really he is capable of the purest evil for the most delusional of reasons.  In his messed up head he truly believed that putting in all this hard work - getting rid of her fiancée AND ex-boyfriend (I guess that was for good measure,  eliminating the possibility that she could fall back into her ex's arms due to him being a convicted murderer)  that she would have no choice but to return to him.  The only logical outcome of this, to him, was that they would reconcile.  So, yeah, definitely insane, but thankfully not the kind of insanity that keeps you out of prison.

 

If it wasn't all so gross, it would almost be funny that in an effort to give himself a little extra padding, he went ahead and tossed in a jacket from the house of the local sex offender as "evidence".  Why not throw in a bloody knife stolen from the local butcher, too?  A few hair samples from a well known biker gang?  A horse's head to imply it was a mob hit?

 

I agree that the victim's mother's pain was sadly overlooked on the program.  That she had the terrible luck of being in the house when he was murdered makes it even that much worse.

[Ina123]

The best episode...ever.

[punkypower]

EXACTLY!!!

The cousin actually saw her escape, watched King shove her back in the car, and drive off. WTF?? Not to mention the gas can and shovel he borrowed--you need these things to unstick a lawnmower?? Wtff??

Can't imagine how hard it is for the Dad on so many levels, one of which being his own supervisor didn't fire the call center/dispatchers and gave them his support.

Here's an update on Nate from January:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20150110/ARTICLE/150119987

[cooksdelight]

I am just getting around to watching this one, and I totally agree.... best episode in a long time.

The reaction from David when he realized he'd left his fingerprint on the battery -- while wearing gloves when handling everything else -- told me he was guilty as hell. He realized he's screwed up. And having all of those notes and things at home was dumb too. But at least he was caught.

I really, really want to know how he got a job working with the guy he planned to kill. If I had a new relationship going and my ex started working with my new boyfriend, I'd be worried. I would not think that's just a small town coincidence. David must have done some wrangling to get that job in that cubicle.

Another thing.... BLOCK the ex from your Facebook page. That helped him find the house, the neighborhood, etc, by looking at her photos.

I've seen that defense expert before on television, maybe other publicized cases regarding anti-depressants causing people to kill, in his opinion. Sorry, dude, no way is the killer the victim in this case. He planned it out too well.

[saber5055]

Great post, Irritable. And good reasons to not read comments posted by "the masses" on any page anywhere.

 

While I was the one who said not to break up by text, I agree that a face-to-face would not have changed things, unless the girlfriend then could see his face and manner change, see him become irate, then do a personality swing, in person. That might have given her a different memory of the guy.

 

I wonder what this story would have been like if the guy hadn't missed that curve and gone off the road. We'd be back to the traditional Dateline story of "the girlfriend did it."

 

I wonder if the killer had other girlfriends or exes. Would have been interesting to hear from them. If there were any "thems."

[cooksdelight]

Dateline reveals the inside story of Richard Matt and David Sweat's escape and criminal history, and features new interviews. Joyce Mitchell, the New York prison seamstress who helped the two inmates escape, shares her story.

[gaPeach]

Why people think that only being hysterical in a time of that degree of trauma is the only correct reaction?  How  many killers have done just that and it came off as so phony.  Both of them appeared to be in a state of shock.  How do you accept seeing your son shot in the head?  The finance' was still referring to him in the present tense during the interview with police.  She still did not accept or get that he was dead. 

 

I want to read the book that is written about this case. You know someone has to write it.  There was so much we did not hear about.  I want to know more about the killer and what he did those months prior to the murder.  How creepy was it that he knew what all the neighbor's habits and comings and goings.  Ew creeps me out knowing someone was watching me. 

[callmebetty]

I finally got to finish this episode and it is so nice to have insightful and great posters here. I don't know what I can add because everybody's posts have been great and are some of the same things I was thinking.

The killer was a creep. That poor mom, not only having lost your son, but if the creep had an itchy trigger finger she could have also been a victim.

Totally understand the fiancé not being able to remember the creeps last name because really woken up in the middle of the night, dead fiancee next to you then being questioned. Hell, I've been calm and can't remember ex boyfriend's names sometimes.

This episode deserved and was the best two hour dateline in a long time.

[cooksdelight]

When Matt Lauer asked her "Did your husband know you were bringing all these cookies and brownies in there?" and she smiled when answering his question.... and he asked her why she's smiling and she suddenly stopped... all I could think was she is proud of what she was able to fool her husband about. And I believe she was having sex with one or both of them of her own choosing. She wasn't coerced. She needs her husband's support right now, so she'll say whatever, is my opinion. And now she's saying Richard Matt raped her.

Why were they both referring to these guys as "Mr." ??? Especially her... giving them a term of respect?? That right there blew my mind and told me she still thinks fondly of those two. I mean... WTF???

I really think she's full of it. She had so many opportunities to stop, or to tell someone, and she did nothing. I think she enjoyed it, being in a position of power.

And the ex-prisoner talking about stuff being easy to get... like a TV?? Holy cow, how does that get in? She said they never checked her bag in and out, as they were supposed to. I hope someone's in trouble.

What do you believe is truth vs. fiction? Was her husband's life really in danger or is that her cover story? Poor Lyle.

[Ailianna]

And the ex-prisoner talking about stuff being easy to get... like a TV?? Holy cow, how does that get in?

 

He didn't mean people were smuggling in TVs.  He means that inmates are allowed to have TVs (I don't want to say for sure, but I'm *almost* sure it's a "right"), and that with this honor floor, they were allowed to have TVs in their cells.  So with everyone watching their own TVs, it was loud and easy to cover other noises.

 

She's not a monster--she's a weak, pathetic, self-deluded wreck of a person.  I'm very sure she liked the attention, and that they played her, but she's also clearly not the great victim she's trying to portray herself to be.  She was getting her rocks off, in more than one way, and she abused not only her family's trust, but that of her employer, in order to bring "poor Sweat"--a COP KILLER--brownies, cause the widdle baby would obviously starve to death if she didn't bring him goodies.

 

Just ridiculous, the lies she is now telling herself and trying to sell others about it all.

[walnutqueen]

"Suck my dick and bring me tools." That is all.

 

^^^ THIS.  ;-)

 

I wonder if she was having a herpes outbreak while she was sucking the dick(s)? 

Because that's all I could see whenever I tried to look at her lying liarface.  I gave up and just pretended I was listening to the radio; I could still hear the deception loud & clear.