All Episodes Discussion

[Fable]

I don't know if she did it or not, but I don't think the evidence was there.  I too am perplexed how she could be found not guilty on the food tampering charge, yet guilty of murder.   What did the judge think, she injected him with it?  Strange case!  

[Tdoc72]

I wonder if this was a case of no evidence of suicide, so it must be murder. There were no fingerprints on the jug of antifreeze and no glass of antifreeze sitting around. So how did he pour it and drink it? If I was a jury member, I don't know if I would've convicted her, but I would wonder about that.

[Tdoc72]

I wondered about his hair too. It was strange. In one pic they showed, it was a lot more normal looking.

[Tdoc72]

I've seen this covered on another show. On the news report tape when he's crying, it is so obvious he's faking it. And I remember one detective saying he would stop crying until someone came in the room and then start up again with the wailing and 'tears'. Detective never saw any real ones. I think he's where he belongs and his mom is nuts. I feel bad for their kids.

[PepperMonkey]

I'm suspicious that she did it, but I would be hard pressed to CONVICT her if I had been on the (non-existent) jury.

 

I really don't believe someone of his intelligence would drink anti-freeze hoping to make himself sick so she would come back to him. I mean, how many of these anti-freeze poisoning shows have we seen???? So we know he would have to know how dangerous and painful it is and that he only had a small window to get the antidote or he would die.

 

Still, there was no evidence she DID do it and that's why I probably wouldn't be able to find her guilty and sleep at night. You can't send someone to jail because you don't like them. She and her defense team did her a great disservice by going to a bench trial.

 

Also, I have a hard time believing she's some sort of femme fatale, but it's NOT because of her looks. She's not Quasimodo, FFS. I find it hard because she seems so cold and I can't believe men warm to her so easily. Maybe her online persona is a lot warmer than she is in real life.

[ButterQueen]

I believe she did it. I believe she was found not guilty on the tampering because they could not find exactly what container the antifreeze was from. However, she admitted she was his only visitor that week and doctors knew from lab results that he was 12-24 hours into the poisoning when the wife's mother---coincidence?) found him. The mother didn't call 911, she called the daughter, Teresa, who called 911. I wonder how long the mother and Teresa waited to seek help. I think the Judge did the right thing.

http://2paragraphs.com/2015/12/raymond-kotomski-retired-cop-poisoned-with-antifreeze-by-second-wife/

Edited December 13, 2015 by ButterQueen

[Morbs]

Josh Mankowitz is not one to talk; he looks like he is dying of alcoholism. I don't know what's going on with him, but he looks more ill each episode.

[cooksdelight]

When a graduate student is killed, detectives believe that her fiancé is the key to solving the case.

[zxy556575]

Oh, no! NOT HER BOYFRIEND!!

 

I may be getting burned out on crime stories.

[cooksdelight]

I realized as soon as I saw the crime scene photos of the stairs that I've seen this case on Snapped.

[ridethemaverick]

This was a good one.

Shannon was absolutely NUTS and her mother seemed shady to me. Her eyes darted around way too much for me to believe anything she said. The tapes, the "rape", the planted knife, I mean it was all too much. The most chilling part to me was how Jamier called her to see if she was at work when he found out about the murder. He knew if anyone was capable it was her.

I'm glad Danita's mom has found peace.

[biakbiak]

I mean why wouldn't a rape victim not know that her rapist is just going to decide toss the knife he used in the assault in his own garbage 100 miles away!

[Tdoc72]

The whole story of how she was at the apartment and the janitor only saw her because Jemeir crawled into the car was off. Also her phoned pinged at the apt the day before. She claimed they had to do recon. Wouldn't the boyfriend already know the apt? I would assume he's visited her, so Shannon's story on that made no sense.
Her parents are in such denial.
I did want to see the phones records to see who was originating all of the stalking calls. Were they incoming or outcoming? I can't believe the police didn't mention them.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Tdoc72

[Tdoc72]

Had another thought: the gun

Shannon first said she didn't like guns, then later said she got one from a friend because she was afraid. Jemeir was a cop who had a gun. What gun was used to kill Demita? I thought they said it matched Shannon's but she never said anything about Jemier getting her gun, either by taking it or her giving it. Hmm...

Edited: found & watched the Snapped episode. Shannon's gun was a 38 and the murder weapon/bullet was a 38. Shannon claimed she threw the gun away after having it for one day so no ballistics. No mentij of comparing to Jemeir's gun.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Tdoc72

[cooksdelight]

I can't believe she sat there with a straight face and claimed the voice on those tapes was Jemeir. No way. I wish whoever it was would come forward. Her case was so full of holes that no matter how much she lied, she couldn't plug them up.

[Stampiron]

Shannon rejected a plea deal for 12 years (for murder!) and ended up with life in prison w/o parole. I have to think that if her family hadn't decided to jump on board the delusional bandwagon with her they might have been able to convince her that taking that plea was the best move.

[teebax]

I realized as soon as I saw the crime scene photos of the stairs that I've seen this case on Snapped.

I spent the entire episode wondering why my guide said it was new when I knew I'd seen it before. Thank you for posting this; I must have seen it on Snapped.

[ari333]

He already knows where his fiancée lives, so no need to go a day early and case it out.

 

Also, if he forced her to go to Denita's apt and if he left the vehicle, she could have run. Sheesh. She was not tied up. That woman makes me sick.

Jermeir is a cheating cheater who cheats, but he didn't shoot Denita. I agree with the judge, his choices/cheating caused this.

[Ina123]

I noticed her brother hardly spoke in the family interview. I'm betting it was him on those tapes.

[cooksdelight]

I noticed her brother hardly spoke in the family interview. I'm betting it was him on those tapes.

I hadn't thought about that. I bet you're right. She would tell him "You need to help me recreate these conversations so the police will believe me."

I got the impression that once she had her lies in place, there was no way she'd admit guilt and take the deal. Her parents don't strike me as the type to forgive and forget when their perfect child commits cold-blooded murder.

[ElleBee]

I hadn't thought about that. I bet you're right. She would tell him "You need to help me recreate these conversations so the police will believe me."

I got the impression that once she had her lies in place, there was no way she'd admit guilt and take the deal. Her parents don't strike me as the type to forgive and forget when their perfect child commits cold-blooded murder.

 

It was also really telling that her own defense team didn't use the tapes in the trial. If they were in any way plausible, the defense would have been all over presenting tapes to the jury proving the boyfriend had both confessed to murder and threatened her kids if she told.

 

I think Shannon's biggest failing was that she felt the need to seal her "innocence" with extras. The tapes and the alleged rape only made her seem more suspicious and showed she was a desperate liar. If she'd just told her story and stuck with it, they might have had a hard time convicting her. Even the detective admitted that her version--about Jamier initially getting into the SUV and then hiding in the back seat, so the maintenance guy wouldn't have seen him--was reasonable. Fortunately she wasn't smart enough to leave well enough alone.

 

For some reason, I felt a bit worse for Shannon's family than most other head-in-the-sand family members on these shows. They were completely delusional, with the stacks of evidence against their daughter, but seemed like nice, upstanding people otherwise. For some, it must just be completely incomprehensible to realize that they've raised a monster.

Edited December 20, 2015 by ElleBee

[Ohmo]

I'll admit.  At first, I thought Shannon did it.  By the middle of the episode, I bought her story.  The rape allegation flipped me back to she did it.  The fact that Jemair immediately called his department upon finding the knife spoke volumes to me.  If he was Shannon's rapist, the knife wouldn't be sitting in his trash can.  It'd be at the bottom of any nearby body of water.  Plus, the act of raping with a knife is just way too convenient an excuse for why there was no semen, and the dog was perfectly silent for four hours while all of this was happening.

 

I think Shannon's biggest failing was that she felt the need to seal her "innocence" with extras. The tapes and the alleged rape only made her more suspicious and showed she was a desperate liar. If she'd just told her story and stuck with it, they might have had a hard time convicting her. Even the detective admitted that her version--about Jamier initially getting into the SUV and then hiding in the back seat, so they maintenance guy wouldn't have seen him--was reasonable. Fortunately she wasn't smart enough to leave well enough alone.

 

I agree because him hiding in the SUV seemed plausible to me.  That was in Shannon's favor.  I bought that, but the rape was just too implausible with absolutely nothing to connect Jemair with being there, hundreds of miles from his home, at 2 am just as Shannon happened to be taking out the dog?  Reading this forum also makes me buy the theory that the brother could be "the voice."

[biakbiak]

Jermeir is a cheating cheater who cheats, but he didn't shoot Denita. I agree with the judge, his choices/cheating caused this.

That actually annoyed me. Cheating is wrong but the only person who's choices caused this murder was Shannon.

Edited December 19, 2015 by biakbiak

[ari333]

That actually annoyed me. Cheating is wrong but the only person who's choices caused this murder was Shannon.

 

You are right. But if he hadn't cheated..... but you are still right. :) I didn't mean to bold that and I cant unbold it. DOH! Anyway, I agree.

[damalanop]

Until reading here I didn't realize that I'd also seen this case Snapped. It's been a while, though. So long in fact, that I'd forgotten the particulars.

Like everyone else, I felt that Shannon's family is deep, deep in denial, especially the parents. The brother's comment that he wouldn't be interviewed if he had the slightest doubt about her innocence made me question him immediately. Not that I thought he was involved (although, the post above theorizing that he may have been the guy on the other side of Shannon's taped phone calls I think has real merit), but more so that I think he didn't actually believe in Shannon's innocence. Wasn't it also mentioned that Shannon has a sister? If I recall correctly, Shannon was at her sister's home when she was arrested. Interesting that the sister wasn't interviewed. Perhaps she isn't so convinced that Shannon is the angel the rest of the family thinks she is.

The whole situation is just sad: Denita losing her life, and so brutally; Denita's loved ones having to deal with the aftermath; and Shannon's family not being able to accept her guilt.

Edited December 20, 2015 by damalanop

[Ohmo]

I believe she did it. I believe she was found not guilty on the tampering because they could not find exactly what container the antifreeze was from. However, she admitted she was his only visitor that week and doctors knew from lab results that he was 12-24 hours into the poisoning when the wife's mother---coincidence?) found him. The mother didn't call 911, she called the daughter, Teresa, who called 911. I wonder how long the mother and Teresa waited to seek help. I think the Judge did the right thing.

 

I'd buy that explanation.  Additional red flags are Teresa's behavior when he died.  She shut his kids out of the decision, and I don't care if she did have the legal right to do so.  To shut his children out of such a decision about their father makes her look like a complete shrew at least, but it also is suspect behavior.  What is she hiding?  Then to compound it, she demands that he be cremated?  If he committed suicide as she claimed, why the dictate about cremation?  It wasn't anything that his daughter referenced as something he might have wanted.  Being not guilty about the tampering means that the judge probably felt it couldn't be proven, but I think a circumstantial case of murder was proven.  I also think her current boyfriend is a total sap.

 

I have to laugh.  I'm from Ohio (although not from that part of the state), and I was somewhat amused that Ashtabula somehow ended up on Dateline.  Josh was right when he referred to cold weather.  Ashtabula's usually known for lots of snow and for being the birthplace of Ohio State football coach Urban Meyer.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Ohmo

[ari333]

1.) That voice sounded nothing like Jermeir.

2.) Why if he had called "a million times" from his hone that he suddenly uses a pay phone for the taped calls?

3.) The words he used were just too... perfect. "Yeah I killed once and got away with it" and other such blatant statements such that I don't think a guilty person would overdo it like that.

4.) That rape was so fake it was an insult to real rape victims.

5.) Did she not kind of imply guilt when she was arrested with the , "raise them as your own" regarding her kids? As in, " I know I'm caught now."

6.) Who rapes a woman with a knife and then drops the knife in their OWN trash can? No one. That is a special kind of stupid.

Edited December 20, 2015 by ari333

[Cherrio]

This was a good one.

Shannon was absolutely NUTS and her mother seemed shady to me. Her eyes darted around way too much for me to believe anything she said. The tapes, the "rape", the planted knife, I mean it was all too much. The most chilling part to me was how Jamier called her to see if she was at work when he found out about the murder. He knew if anyone was capable it was her.

I'm glad Danita's mom has found peace.

I thought the same exact thing about the eyes.

 I feel her whole family was in on it.   The brother was the voice and her father thought he could outsmart the police.   Too bad for them, intelligence was not on their side.

 Too bad Denita got involved with that creepy man.    

[ButterQueen]

I think the judge was absolutely wrong to place any blame on Jermeir. He ended the relationship a year earlier and after that, proposed to Denita. The judge is not the moral police. The prosecutor didn't care for the comment either.

Shannon is nuts--!!! She premeditated the murder of Denita..period..end of story.

Shannon's family probably committed actual crimes trying to set up an innocent man.

[ari333]

I agree that the murder is on Shannon. But if he hadn't cheated, there wouldn't have been a triangle with a cray murderer. The cheating got the ball rolling. imo

[cooksdelight]

I've had boyfriends (and my ex-spouse) cheat on me. I didn't go out and kill anyone. It's ALL on Shannon, in my opinion. Only someone who's crazy, mentally unbalanced, whatever you want to call it... would kill over cheating.

[Ohmo]

I agree that the murder is on Shannon. But if he hadn't cheated, there wouldn't have been a triangle with a cray murderer. The cheating got the ball rolling. imo

 

I don't agree for the reason that it's deeper than that.  If Jemair hadn't cheated, nothing probably would have happened in this situation.  However, I think this is a reflection of how Shannon deals with issues.  If it didn't happen here, odds are it would have happened with another guy that Shannon dated or a workplace dispute that she could have had, or any other scenario where she felt wronged.  The cheating only brought about the revelation that this is how Shannon reacts to issues.  I do not believe that this reaction was solely caused by Jemair and is an exception to Shannon's behavior.  Rather, it is an indication of her behavior.

 

ETA:

 

2.) Why if he had called "a million times" from his hone that he suddenly uses a pay phone for the taped calls?

 

 

Did anyone else think it was odd that the authorities didn't put a tap on Shannon's phone themselves?  I mean, if these calls were supposedly happening all the time, wouldn't the cops want their own verification with their own equipment and personnel setting it up?  Shannon obviously didn't have any issues with taping the calls.  The fact that the cops didn't do it leads me to wonder if they suspected her story then and knew the calls were not likely legit.  I know that the state was not keen on helping her, but I also thought it was weird for them to effectively say "Bring us proof and you're in charge of the proof."

Edited December 20, 2015 by Ohmo

[saber5055]

I've had boyfriends (and my ex-spouse) cheat on me. I didn't go out and kill anyone.

 

Same here. And if I've ever had thoughts of killing anyone, it's always been the cheating boyfriend. I wouldn't have minded doing jail time for offing a couple of them.

 

I don't blame the dog for not barking during a FOUR HOUR RAPE! but I do question why any rape lasts four freaking hours, especially one that suppose to be outside in a residential back yard. Four minutes would have been closer to it, and more believable. 

 

I do think Shannon is one cool cucumber, she has a level head, perfect for being a 911 operator. She just needed to have a story in place without taking four months in jail to think it up. That was her downfall.

 

I wish the victim had known about Shannon, the pregnancy, her beloved skipping around on her. If she had, and had broken the engagement as her friend said she would, maybe we wouldn't have been watching this unfold on tv.

[Tdoc72]

Josh Mankowitz is not one to talk; he looks like he is dying of alcoholism. I don't know what's going on with him, but he looks more ill each episode.

Not sure if anything's wrong with him, but in the last few episodes, he's been very snarky w/some of the people he's interviewing.  Tina New from the Pegye Bechler case and the murderess Shannon from last weeks, for example.

[ButterQueen]

I watched this episode.  I wish they had explained how Lydia ran into the killer.  She was attacked in here home.  Did he follow her home and break in?  Did she let him in?  I wanted to know how she crossed paths with him.

I just watched this again. Apparently, Lydia met Travis at a bar and invited him back to her apartment.

I just cry watching Lydia speaking with Keith at the end, giving him the bracelet, and he is so gently patient with her...never trying to speak for Lydia...letting her take her time to find her voice. (sobs)

[aguabella]

In the States, if you've been married a while, and both parties contributed to the marriage, home, children's education costs.... everything.... money is split equitably. If she put more money into it (and the way he was spending, she may have) then he has to pay her back her fair share. I can't remember if she kept their marital home or he did. Whichever party keeps the home, they have to pay the other spouse their 1/2 share of what it's worth. Now, this is a generalized statement. Every case is different. Also, he made a LOT of money and if you're married more than 10 years you are entitled to 1/2 of your spouse's future pension earnings. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, so this is just what little I know based on personal experience. And every state has their own laws about who gets what and how much.

 

I'm not an AZ legal guru but I don't believe the spousal support related to either equitable distribution of the existing assets, marital home buyout or redistribution of future earnings in a long-term marriage.  I do believe it related to ongoing maintenance of her existing lifestyle (l/t marrage), given the wide disparity between their incomes.

 

Missed about 1/2 of the episode so hoping for another repeat.  It'd be nice if they had a twist instead of another bf/husband did it, rinse, repeat episode.  Sounded interesting, anyway.

[Ina123]

If you are addicted to Dateline, 48 Hours and the ID Channel one could possibly think, "Maybe I'll just avoid relationships and marriage."

[ButterQueen]

If you are addicted to Dateline, 48 Hours and the ID Channel one could possibly think, "Maybe I'll just avoid relationships and marriage."

TRUTH-!!!

[Ohmo]

Barry Beach Clemency Request Approved, Walks Out of Jail Free Man

 

OK Keith, you better be working double time on an episode update because I want one!

 

Afterwhich, I want the entire Montana Supreme Court stripped of their positions.

 

I want that shady-ass prosecutor (who now no longer is in practice, I believe) jailed.

 

I want that Tina woman investigated because I think it's very likely that she (and her group of friends) killed Kim.

 

I want Montana to pay Barry a crapload of money.  It won't make up for what the State did, but Barry deserves something.

[ari333]

I thought this was a compelling and enraging episode.

This was a repeat, but new to me.

The 911 call by the husband, Tom, was a huge red flag right off the bat.

I guess he didn't count on that neighbor kid hearing and talking about anything.

Also, was it odd to anyone that Heath's 10th b'day party was not to be held in his own home? It's not like it was a tiny apartment.

 

[One Tough Cookie]

I'd imagine no matter how much or little time she does in prison, it will not be a pleasant experience, even if she's isolated from the general population.  :-D

 

Karma's a bitch, Bitch!

 

HOWEVER, she helped two prisoners escape.  That might give her status in lockdown

[Katrina]

I just cant get over "SOMETHING WICKED" I keep on getting back to it.

  Edited January 2, 2016 by Katrina

[RedKoolAide]

I just watched this. Wow. Shannon is a real life Alex Forrest. I've seen fatal attraction cases before, but this one takes the cake. I'm convinced the other voice on the tapes was Shannon trying to sound like Jermeir. She's nuts if she thought anyone would be stupid enough to believe those tapes.

Poor Denita. It's really sad. She could've had a bright future, but it was stolen away. It pisses me off. How hard is it to just move on from a relationship? Shannon destroyed a lot of lives. I hope it eats her alive, but judging by her prison interview, she's steadfast in her delusions.

I have a lot of respect for Denita's mom that she was able to forgive Shannon.

[ari333]

Repeat from 2012, but really interesting and compelling case. If you didn't see it, it is worth a watch imo.

[ari333]

Holy crap, you guys. "12 Minutes on Elm Street" is a must-see eppy. It is on demand and probably on youtube. Omg..... must -see.  It is a case of two teens shot dead by a home owner while breaking into the home. Many twists and turns.

Edited January 4, 2016 by ari333

[walnutqueen]

ari333, on 04 Jan 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

Holy crap, you guys. "12 Minutes on Elm Street" is a must-see eppy. It is on demand and probably on youtube. Omg..... must -see.  It is a case of two teens shot dead by a home owner while breaking into the home. Many twists and turns.

 

That was a good episode, ari.  If you go back to Page 1 & 2 of this thread, Jan 17 thru 21, 2015, you can read the discussions about this case.

[Fable]

Holy crap, you guys. "12 Minutes on Elm Street" is a must-see eppy. It is on demand and probably on youtube. Omg..... must -see.  It is a case of two teens shot dead by a home owner while breaking into the home. Many twists and turns.

 

Yep, this was one of the best and most controversial episodes.  I watched it a couple of times over before forming an opinion.  No matter anyone's take on this, one thing is certain, it was definitely a tragic story.  

[One Tough Cookie]

The Stacy Castor story really got to me.  She poisons TWO husbands and tries to set up her teen-aged daughter feeding her a combination of drugs and alcohol.  There has to be a special lace in hell for such an uncaring, devious woman.  I hope her daughters are doing well and have happy lives in spite of their mother.

[Fable]

The Stacy Castor story really got to me.  She poisons TWO husbands and tries to set up her teen-aged daughter feeding her a combination of drugs and alcohol.  There has to be a special lace in hell for such an uncaring, devious woman.  I hope her daughters are doing well and have happy lives in spite of their mother.

Weird that you brought this up as I was just talking to my sister about this case since she reminded us of someone we both know.  This must have aired quite some time ago, and I couldn't even remember where I saw it.  The thing that really struck me is that Stacey's eyes were so dead.  I may have seen it somewhere other than Dateline, but I definitely remember this story.  

[Scorpiosunshine]

When it came to the cops though she was hilariously bad at manipulating them. I mean, saying she is extremely religious and prophetic and she has a great personal track record of being intuitive so they should just take her word for it that the other guy was the killer? I bet her marks were pretty vulnerable and unhappy so she didn't have to do much to trick them, because she really was an idiot.

I know this is an older post, but I just saw the new Dateline on ID "Devil in Disguise" episode, which is my first exposure to this case.

WOW, what a dumb criminal! Everything she did that she thought pointed to someone else instead pointed directly back to her. It would have been hilariously, laughably bad if it weren't so sad for Frank and his loved ones.

What an evil witch!