S03.E02: Part Two - Disengage

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Aided by Seven of Nine and the crew of the U.S.S. Titan, Picard makes a shocking discovery that will alter his life forever -- and puts him on a collision course with the most cunning enemy he's ever encountered. Meanwhile, Raffi races to track a catastrophic weapon -- and collides with a familiar ally.

Dropping Thursday, February 23, 2023.

[cambridgeguy]

Hmm, apparently accents are genetic.  Or did Jack spend his formative years listening to Picard's old logs and other British people?

In a surprise to no one, Worf is the guy working with Raffi.  Unlike Riker and Picard he still seems pretty spry.

[starri]

Well, we know Klingons age more slowly than humans.  Kor, Kang, and Koloth were all still pretty intimidating after 100 years on DS9. 

I guess Terry Matalas is going to be hiring a lot of people from 12 Monkeys.  I did not recognize Aaron Stanford at all as Sneed; I kept thinking it was perennial Trek guest star Clint Howard.

I'm still chewing over the episode, although I do have two thoughts:

1) If Jack is Picard's son, I'm glad they didn't drag it out beyond the stinger at the end of the last episode and this one.

2) Amanda Plummer is a great villain.  I also love symmetry that after her father was the last TOS villain, she's the last TNG one.

[NeenerNeener]

Yeah, I didn't know accents could be inherited either. So does this mean we'll get more Wil Weaton in this season too? Making his half-brother a Traveler would be one deus-ex-Wesley solution to hiding him from all the folks trying to kill him.

[paigow]

Hide in Nebula must be the official Starfleet Plan B when facing a superior opponent...

• Riker & La Forge 2.0 use a shuttle to drop proximity mines
• Seven declares that Vadic is smart, but a two dimensional thinker 

[starri]

I wonder if meeting his father has Jack considering the future of his hairline.

[paigow]

Why not get DNA from Jack instead of dragging near-death Bev to the bridge? WTF Riker???!!!

[PurpleTentacle]

First of all, this season is shaping up to be the best Star Trek in almost two decades (we are not quite at the point where ENT ended, but coming up to it). The characters seem consistent, the story makes sense and there are relatable stakes.

That being said, I have some nitpicks:

 

- "Galarian fever is fatal at the rate of one life per minute."

That's not how diseases work, Jack. You can establish a rough mortality rate, but how many people die per minute will differ depending on how many people are infected.

 

- They mention that the Titan is an "exploritory vessel" and outgunned, before even scanning the other ship? How can that be? The Titan has always been one of the top of the line Star Fleet ships. Galaxy Class, Defiant class, etc. Rikers Titan was a Luna class, which as far as I can tell, was a pretty heavy hitter. I know she was retrofitted in the meantime, but they probably didn't make her worse, did they?

 

- How the Titan broke the tractor beam looked stupidly impossible. Did they warp in there or was it just high impulse into a dead stop? Good thing they have impulse dampaners, I guess.

 

- "I believe it is afternoon in the Sol system."

That's not how time of day works. Every point on every planet has another time of day. For example, it is afternoon here, while it is already after midnight in Australia.

Now, there is federation standard time, but then why would you single out the Sol system? Makes no sense.

 

- "How do we know he really is her kid." (Captain Shaw regarding Jack Crusher)

I don't know? How could you possibly know that? It's not like you have her in sick bay, him in the brig and could easily compare their DNA..........

 

- How can Jack be Picard's son? We were told Beverly disappeared from his life 20 years ago. That actor is 35 years old and looks it. Is he supposed to play a 20 year old? My suspension of disbelieve can only take so much...

[cambridgeguy]

7 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I don't know? How could you possibly know that? It's not like you have her in sick bay, him in the brig and could easily compare their DNA..........

That might be viewed as a violation of a person's privacy. Shaw might be kind of an ass, but he's still a Starfleet captain who was trained with those ideals.  Scanning for injuries and illnesses is one thing, but an impromptu maternity test is probably crossing a line.

[PurpleTentacle]

Just now, cambridgeguy said:

That might be viewed as a violation of a person's privacy. Shaw might be kind of an ass, but he's still a Starfleet captain who was trained with those ideals.  Scanning for injuries and illnesses is one thing, but an impromptu maternity test is probably crossing a line.

I think considering the situation they were in, the safety of the ship would outweigh these very minor privacy concerns. It's not like the DNA needs to be put in a database. It's a scan, compare, done.

Even if the privacy concerns were real, that should have been discussed.

"How do we even know?!" is pretty clearly the writers having a brain fart and not them considering the ethical implications of a DNA test.

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

That might be viewed as a violation of a person's privacy. Shaw might be kind of an ass, but he's still a Starfleet captain who was trained with those ideals.  Scanning for injuries and illnesses is one thing, but an impromptu maternity test is probably crossing a line.

The test is going to validate a claim made by a known con man / fugitive. This is a legitimate CSI tactic. If he refuses the test, beam him away.

[MissLucas]

Well, I know I'm in trouble with ST when I start to side with the antagonists - two out of three that is, Sneed had it coming. But so far I'm with Vodic and Shaw.

So, in order to get that emotional scene on the bridge we just ignore DNA testing *sigh* too bad it loses its impact due to weak writing. Not sure what Riker was seeing btw. all I see is that Jack Crusher looks like James Norton's little brother but that's on me.

How come Shaw does not know the standard tactic for any ST ship in trouble near a sensor-disrupting nebula??? Oh yes, to give Picard another hero/engage moment. This feels a lot like the Burnham-syndrome. But Shaw was probably still feeling dizzy from that anvil Vodic had dropped on his head about his psych evaluation. No ominous backstory there at all! 

Somebody please give Raffi a bottle of Bioderma micellar water - that 'I'm desperate'-eyeliner is just ridiculous. And of course her character gets kicked down some more. I wonder who Michelle Hurd pissed off on the writing team. 

Well, so far Amanda Plummer delivering delicious villain speeches (even if she does not know how time-zones work) is the best thing about this show. 

 

 

 

[paigow]

29 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

But Shaw was probably still feeling dizzy from that anvil Vodic had dropped on his head about his psych evaluation.

Military testing is far from perfect...

[MissLucas]

8 minutes ago, paigow said:

Military testing is far from perfect...

Yeah, we learned that last season when we found out Starfleet never bothered to unravel Picard's massive mommy issues.

Edited February 23, 2023 by MissLucas

[greekmom]

They have jumped the shark.  I have to say thank you to Goldsman and Kurtzman for turning TNG's legacy from a great show to a flaming piece of kaka.  You owe Rodenberry, Braga, Moore, etc a written apology.
I still do not buy that this kid is 20 years old, the seed of Picard's loins and that Beverly was a bitch to keep him from his father.  
The only redeeming quality is that Amanda Plumber can certainly play crazy well as her father. But it's not enough and it's wasted on this crap.

At this point I am not even hating watching.... it's worse than that. I am hate snarking.
 

[PurpleTentacle]

43 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I still do not buy that this kid is 20 years old, the seed of Picard's loins and that Beverly was a bitch to keep him from his father.  

I am currently going with the theory I read in the episode 1 thread, that he was born when Beverly was away at starfleet medical, which would make the actor the perfect age (35). But the writers better have a damn good explaination why she kept that from Picard.

Edited February 23, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[cambridgeguy]

7 minutes ago, greekmom said:

They have jumped the shark.  I have to say thank you to Goldsman and Kurtzman for turning TNG's legacy from a great show to a flaming piece of kaka.  You owe Rodenberry, Braga, Moore, etc a written apology.

Braga?  Oh, how times have changed if the man who was lambasted for killing the TNG era of Trek shows 20 years ago deserves an apology from the people who are supposed to be killing Trek now.

There's always a slim hope that it's not as straightforward as Beverly getting pregnant with Jean-Luc's kid the old fashioned way and then running off without a word.  Picard has had his DNA hijacked before (Shinzon).

[dwmarch]

I want to like this season, I really do but it does suffer from that same thing I have seen in Discovery where the writers have obviously never worked in an organization of any kind.

First and foremost, if Shaw is going to be disciplinarian, he needs to actually do things other than making faces and snide comments. There looked to be a few cells in the brig and you've got a few people who should be in there! Instead he's letting Picard and Riker wander the ship as they please and give orders to his crew!

Speaking of the brig, Jesus H. Christ do we not bother searching prisoners anymore? And that guard! I thought you said you ran a tight ship, Shaw!

Why does the Titan sickbay keep a cart full of stimulants right next to the bed of each patient? It would have been much better and funnier if Riker had given Crusher the injection followed by the Titan's doctor saying "I don't know why you just gave her a vaccine for Andorian measles but if you want to wake her up, we'll have to get a stimulant from the controlled supply dispenser."

Let's bring Beverly to the bridge because it will remind people of Star Trek II and so she can share a significant look with Picard. Her shit-talking son says "how well do you know her after all this time?" Well there you go, punk. They can communicate with a glance from across a crowded room during a red alert.

Worf got the Klingon TMP theme which was nice. He also got to straight up behead that Ferengi which I imagine he's been wanting to do for a long time. If I give this show credit for nothing else, I will credit them for giving Worf a nice scene where he gets to kick some ass instead of getting beat up to show how tough the bad guys are. But we'll see if this holds once he is face to face with Vadic and crew.

It's too bad no one told Raffi about the anti-intoxicants we've seen before. Also strange that one can prove they aren't a cop by taking narcotics which I don't think is actually a thing even today!

Sneed is a great name for a Ferengi. Did he come across as a little... stereotypical to anyone else? I liked the makeup redesign which is different from the TNG/DS9 era Ferengi but not quite as much of a departure as the really weird looking Ferengi on Discovery. Having said that, I could not deal with the five o'clock shadow. That just looked wrong. I don't think we've ever seen facial hair on a Ferengi other than tufts of hair growing out of the ears of the Grand Nagus.

Vadic sure has one creaky leather jacket. I wonder if it is made from rich Corinthian leather.

Now that we have established that Jack is Picard's son and that Vadic is willing to kill everyone on the ship, I guess we kind of did get "any of you Starfleet pricks move and I'll execute every MF last one of you!"

[PurpleTentacle]

29 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Braga?  Oh, how times have changed if the man who was lambasted for killing the TNG era of Trek shows 20 years ago deserves an apology from the people who are supposed to be killing Trek now.

I mean he did kill it. But he had a bunch of good year and just ran out of steam towards the end. Should have given over the reins a few years earlier and maybe we wouldn't have had almost 20 years of shit. Because once he did give over the reins (season 3 and 4 of ENT) it was actually really good... except for the finale, which he took over again.

24 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

First and foremost, if Shaw is going to be disciplinarian, he needs to actually do things other than making faces and snide comments. There looked to be a few cells in the brig and you've got a few people who should be in there! Instead he's letting Picard and Riker wander the ship as they please and give orders to his crew!

Agreed.

24 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Speaking of the brig, Jesus H. Christ do we not bother searching prisoners anymore?

Oh god yes. That bothered me so much. Can't believe I forgot that on my laundry list of gripes.

27 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Also strange that one can prove they aren't a cop by taking narcotics which I don't think is actually a thing even today!

That was going to be a complaint of mine, till it was revealed that the Ferengi already knew that she was a cop and was just messing with her. So my only remaining question was how Raffi could be so stupid to fall for this. But that seems to be in character at least.

[greekmom]

And how did Vadic know that Picard is synthetic and that Captain Douchebag has... issues!?!?!

[paigow]

5 minutes ago, greekmom said:

And how did Vadic know that Picard is synthetic and that Captain Douchebag has... issues!?!?!

One word: Moles

[greekmom]

58 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Braga?  Oh, how times have changed if the man who was lambasted for killing the TNG era of Trek shows 20 years ago deserves an apology from the people who are supposed to be killing Trek now.

There's always a slim hope that it's not as straightforward as Beverly getting pregnant with Jean-Luc's kid the old fashioned way and then running off without a word.  Picard has had his DNA hijacked before (Shinzon).

Didn't Braga along with Berman and Moore write First Contact??  That has to be my favourite TNG film.  Yeah I know some of his writing wasn't the greatest but it's better than what Kurtzman is serving up.  #sorrynotsorry.

The only positive thing I have to say is I like a bit of cray cray in the villain.

[paigow]

Braga deserves hate for 2 things. Undermining Voyager by dating Jeri Ryan during production. It gave the appearance of unfair treatment, even if not actually occuring.

Secondly, Enterprise.

[ch1]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I am currently going with the theory I read in the episode 1 thread, that he was born when Beverly was away at starfleet medical, which would make the actor the perfect age (35). But the writers better have a damn good explaination why she kept that from Picard.

Not only she would have had to keep him away but Wesley would have had to play dumb - or does he not know he has a brother?

Plus they would have to explain why she left her son when she already raised one on a starship

and they would have to explain how Deanna the empath never read Beverly as hiding something.

How do you write this without completely ruining Beverly?

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, ch1 said:

 

How do you write this without completely ruining Beverly?

By killing her. Riker, whose only medical experience is self diagnosing STD after a trip to Risa, likely ruined her recovery and she will soon die.

[Chaos Theory]

Can you be a Trekie and not be a gatekeeper or a nitpicker? am actually liking this season.   It is hitting the right notes for me.  Yes you can run a starship through the plot holes but who cares?   The idea that Picard can’t believe that Beverly Crusher would raise a con man for a son and then have that son remind him that he hasn’t seen Beverly in 20 years and doesn’t actually know her anymore is an interesting place to take the series.    

[greekmom]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Can you be a Trekie and not be a gatekeeper or a nitpicker? am actually liking this season.   It is hitting the right notes for me.  Yes you can run a starship through the plot holes but who cares?   The idea that Picard can’t believe that Beverly Crusher would raise a con man for a son and then have that son remind him that he hasn’t seen Beverly in 20 years and doesn’t actually know her anymore is an interesting place to take the series.    

I could swallow this person being Picard's kid if Picard knew about, told Beverly he couldn't parent for ... reasons.

I would swallow it like I swallow buckley's.  I don't like it but have to accept it.

Anything else ... see back to my original comment of flaming kaka.

[ofmd]

10 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Hmm, apparently accents are genetic.  Or did Jack spend his formative years listening to Picard's old logs and other British people?

Told y'all in the previous episode thread!

Good things first: I think I'm now ready to move on from Star Trek, so... thanks? After decades, it feels a bit like a friendly breakup where I just need to move on. No hard feelings. It's not you, Trek, it's - well, actually, it is you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at you. Just a bit disappointed.

I'm not even going to get into my personal shark jumping plot, Another Retconned Son aka Young Picard. Or the swiss cheese plot. But the writing is terrible. Cliched supervillain, cliched young dashing arrogant hero with father issues/ chip on shoulder, bad dialog... It seems so by-the-numbers to me.

I found myself bored by what was supposed to be intense drama/ action. The intrusive music underlining the dialog even during quieter moments didn't help, just as a steadycam doesn't make it more interesting. I had to force myself to watch until the end.

Young Crusher is extremely annoying. Now I'm sure he'll be the lead of the spinoff, no matter who the captain is. (As if the title of the first episode wasn't enough.)

They somehow manage that I'm not even interested in Seven, Laris or Raffi anymore. Seven is just an afterthought in this retread/ mishmash of trek movies around the TNG vets and the new-to-us crown prince. Laris was an intriguing character with a spy past and capabilities, a deep friendship with Jean-Luc, a catastrophe/ refugee background and apparently a great marriage; now she's reduced to Love Interest To Prop Up Protagonist. And Raffi, well...

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Somebody please give Raffi a bottle of Bioderma micellar water - that 'I'm desperate'-eyeliner is just ridiculous. And of course her character gets kicked down some more. I wonder who Michelle Hurd pissed off on the writing team.

No kidding!*

You know, Trek, I hear the 'NuTrek sucks cuz too woke' crowd loves you now. They're not the only ones, of course. And if it makes you happy, who am I to judge?

During the first season of Picard - flawed as it was - at least you tried to do something new. You created new characters, some interesting, some with potential you never developed, some legacy characters with a new spin on them. Attempts at world building and expansion to Federation/ beyond Federation life outside of Starfleet. A new, more critical look at said Starfleet.

Look, maybe I just need a break from you. You know, like during your Enterprise phase. Just to be clear, we are allowed to check out other franchises. Don't worry, Andor is awesome, but I think it's just a one-off (the rest of SW not being my kind of SciFi). In any case, we'll always have Deep Space Nine!

 

ETA: And I just realized how fitting the episode title is for me. Damn.

 

* The emo eyeliner of desparation only works in Our Flag Means Death!

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by ofmd

[greekmom]

45 minutes ago, ofmd said:

Young Crusher is extremely annoying. Now I'm sure he'll be the lead of the spinoff, no matter who the captain is. (As if the title of the first episode wasn't enough.)

Look, maybe I just need a break from you. You know, like during your Enterprise phase. Just to be clear, we are allowed to check out other franchises. Don't worry, Andor is awesome, but I think it's just a one-off (the rest of SW not being my kind of SciFi). In any case, we'll always have Deep Space Nine!

 

ETA: And I just realized how fitting the episode title is for me. Damn.

 

I remember reading something on WIL WHEATON dot NET where Wheaton was reviewing episodes of season 1 of Next Gen and he commented how immediately there was a we hate weasley.net forum. LOL.  Is a We Hate Jack Crusher Jr.net possible?

There's always The Orville. If Disney decides to bring it back. But the last season was solid.

[iMonrey]

Ugh. I so badly wanted to believe that this show was above pulling such a cheap gimmick as introducing a long-lost son for Picard. Hopes, dashed. It's just dumb. I'm not even talking about the (apparent) time discrepancy - even if they hired a 20-year old actor to play the part, the idea is still dumb, cheap, unimaginative and derivative. 

I'm bored with the Raffi subplot too. She's fine interacting with other characters I care about but  not in a subplot out there on her own. I was so hoping it was Elnor who saved her. Granted it was cool seeing Worf again but I miss Elnor. Why couldn't they have written Raffi off and kept Elnor? 

[PurpleTentacle]

4 hours ago, ch1 said:

Not only she would have had to keep him away but Wesley would have had to play dumb - or does he not know he has a brother?

If Beverly didn't tell the father, she most certainly didn't tell Wesley. He was also on the Enterprise at the time and not with her at starfleet medical.

4 hours ago, ch1 said:

Plus they would have to explain why she left her son when she already raised one on a starship

Like I said, they better have a damn good reason.

4 hours ago, ch1 said:

and they would have to explain how Deanna the empath never read Beverly as hiding something.

Yoinking this one from the episode 1 thread:

So Beverly clearly had some secret Diana never picked up on. Let's be real here, Diana was generally really crap at her job, until the last two seasons, where she became somewhat half-way competent. Maybe this one got grandfathered into her incompetence since it started in season 2.

4 hours ago, ch1 said:

How do you write this without completely ruining Beverly?

Don't know.  But Beverly kept him from Picard for decades. So how exactly would this predicament change if Jack was only 20 instead of 35? The circumstances would stay pretty much the same and it will be a very fine line to walk to not ruin her character in any case.

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Can you be a Trekie and not be a gatekeeper or a nitpicker?

How is anybody gatekeeping? Please explain.

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Yes you can run a starship through the plot holes but who cares?

Apparently Trekkies care. Tight plots with very little holes used to be a staple of Trek. Now those plots have more holes than a swiss cheese.

1 hour ago, ofmd said:

You know, Trek, I hear the 'NuTrek sucks cuz too woke' crowd loves you now. They're not the only ones, of course. And if it makes you happy, who am I to judge?

Is there such a crowd? I mostly heard "NuTrek sucks because the writing is abysmal". There are some who also think it's too woke, but first screw them and second that doesn't make the writing any less abysmal.

1 hour ago, ofmd said:

During the first season of Picard - flawed as it was - at least you tried to do something new. You created new characters, some interesting, some with potential you never developed, some legacy characters with a new spin on them. Attempts at world building and expansion to Federation/ beyond Federation life outside of Starfleet. A new, more critical look at said Starfleet.

Completely changing established characters is not new and interesting. It's the cowards way. It's trying to trade on established names, while doing whatever you want, not honoring what came before. If you want something completely new, make something completely new. The Star Trek universe is so big. Why do you have to dig up old characters you could have left buried?

Also you can take a more critical look at Starfleet, but it should really make more sense than Picard season 1 did... Though I question how that would be "new". DS9 did a pretty thurough job, exploring the dark side of the federation and how the ideals can('t) stand up in the face of war. If anything NuTrek watered that down with Section 31 being common knowledge and just your run of the mill spy agency.

Edited February 23, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[MissLucas]

Of all the things that bugged my about this episode Jack being Picard's son is pretty low on the list. There are countless ways to explain the how/when/why - some better, some worse. Apart from all the explanation already mentioned - maybe he's an Augment. That would explain Beverley going dark with him. And it would certainly track with his snobbish attitude. Of course that opens a whole lot of questions too 🤷‍♂️

I forgot to check - was shady yellow shirt in a scene?

[ofmd]

22 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Is there such a crowd? I mostly heard "NuTrek sucks because the writing is abysmal". There are some who also think it's too woke, but first screw them and second that doesn't make the writing any less abysmal.[/quote]

Ofc there are many who criticized the writing (myself included), but there seems to be a whole section who's all "The writing sucks bc wokeism" etc. I specifically mean them.

Quote

Completely changing established characters...

Agree to disagree.

Sorry, I messed up with breaking up the quote.

Edited February 23, 2023 by ofmd

[thuganomics85]

Worf!!!!

Part of me wants to wait and see because I still want to think that Jack being Picard's son is just way too obvious at this point.  But unless there ends up being a really good reason why Beverly wouldn't tell him he's wrong, I have to think this is going to be a thing.  Which... well, there better be a good reason why she never told him and kept Jack away from Picard.  I guess we'll wait and see.  Ed Speleers is competent enough here, but every time I watch him, I have a feeling that the description for the character was "Get an affordable Taron Egerton for the role."  Because he kind of feels like the TV budgeted version of Taron Egerton.

Once again, Captain Shaw might be a dick but I continue to think that a lot of his actions and reactions are actually understandable if you take things from his perspective.  He's basically had two veterans randomly show up and act like they own the place already, while his first officer keeps undermining him due to her previous loyalties.  He's not wrong to be frustrated about this: even if he has no tact about it.  I don't know: maybe it's my love for Todd Stashwick talking, but I kind of hope they don't go down the one dimensional path with the character and just make him a constant thorn in their sides.

I knew Amanda Plummer was going to be showing up here as the villain, but I was not prepared for how gloriously over-the-top it would be!  Between that accent, long speeches about birds, and freaking smoking a damn cigar in her captain's chair, it was like watching an actual Bond villain in Star Trek!  Loved it!

Thought Need sounded familiar.  So, we got both Aaron Stanford and Stashwick here.  Just need to get Amanda Schull and Emily Hampshire here, and we can ourselves a mini 12 Monkeys reunion!

Hope the Worf reveal is going to lead to Raffi and her story merging into the main arc soon, because her stuff isn't exactly grabbing me at the moment.

Time for another round of "Hide in the Nebula!"  Always a popular game in the Star Trek Universe!

[starri]

Just now, thuganomics85 said:

I knew Amanda Plummer was going to be showing up here as the villain, but I was not prepared for how gloriously over-the-top it would be!  Between that accent, long speeches about birds, and freaking smoking a damn cigar in her captain's chair, it was like watching an actual Bond villain in Star Trek!  Loved it!

She's absolutely channeling her father's performance as General Chang.  And I am here for it.

[Cattoy]

10 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

That might be viewed as a violation of a person's privacy. Shaw might be kind of an ass, but he's still a Starfleet captain who was trained with those ideals.  Scanning for injuries and illnesses is one thing, but an impromptu maternity test is probably crossing a line.

Both Crushers were beamed aboard. All they have to do is compare their respective logs. It's how Picard positively identified Beverly in the first episode. The transporter basically recreates a person. It's better than DNA.

As much as I was looking forward to this, right now the really bad writing is dimming my interest. If they come up with something that isn't a complete trope for Jack and why Beverly kept him a secret, maybe my opinion will improve.

[Lokiberry]

Reasons for Crusher to not tell Picard about their son: 

"It would impede your career" No it wouldn't.

"It would be a burden to you" How do you know if you didn't ask.

"I was emotionally distraught over the end of our affair" You were a grown-ass woman in her 50s, who'd already raised a Super Special Time Traveling Wonder son. Try harder. 

"We needed the DRAMA of pulling a surprise child out of our ass" There you go. 

This was bad. The Crusher/Picard love child is trite, Raffi being undercover while battling her addictions and conspiracy mania is dull and off-putting. Shaw being cowardly, obnoxious and incompetent is odd. Also, is he from the Mirror universe and that's why he won't turn on any fricking lights? Will Seven end up killing him and assuming command, and that's the next spin-off?

Worf was cool though. So, that's what? About a  minute of screen time that was interesting. 

[greekmom]

1 minute ago, Lokiberry said:

Reasons for Crusher to not tell Picard about their son: 

"It would impede your career" No it wouldn't.

"It would be a burden to you" How do you know if you didn't ask.

"I was emotionally distraught over the end of our affair" You were a grown-ass woman in her 50s, who'd already raised a Super Special Time Traveling Wonder son. Try harder. 

"We needed the DRAMA of pulling a surprise child out of our ass" There you go. 

This was bad. The Crusher/Picard love child is trite, Raffi being undercover while battling her addictions and conspiracy mania is dull and off-putting. Shaw being cowardly, obnoxious and incompetent is odd. Also, is he from the Mirror universe and that's why he won't turn on any fricking lights? Will Seven end up killing him and assuming command, and that's the next spin-off?

Worf was cool though. So, that's what? About a  minute of screen time that was interesting. 

The Green mist ghost took over Picard who had his way with Beverly.

Sounds like something from a show called Passions. Or a movie with Patrick Swayze. 🤣

[rtms77]

Sigh… first what has Gates McFadden done to her face! That’s not natural aging.

6 hours ago, ch1 said:

Not only she would have had to keep him away but Wesley would have had to play dumb - or does he not know he has a brother?

Plus they would have to explain why she left her son when she already raised one on a starship

and they would have to explain how Deanna the empath never read Beverly as hiding something.

How do you write this without completely ruining Beverly?

All of this! The writers threw out logic and sense for a gotcha moment, it’s terrible writing. 

I realize Picard did not want to step on toes, but man I’d verbally kick Captain Shaw into next week if he talked to a superior officer like that. Alas he’s on a frayed shoestring taking over the ship now.

I feel for Seven. I also think a year at least at Starfleet Academy would have prepared her better for an active starship role. Janway babied her, Fenris toughened her up but gave her a lot of freedom, while Picard offers pithy comments about becoming a captain soon! Well she would have made a perfect captain for La Serina but everyone insists she has to be the perfect little Starfleet star! 
 

Shaw is clearly a bigot and a huge jerk who hides his inadequacies behind rules because he can’t think outside the box the way Riker and Picard can or even Seven. Hence why he’s assigned a explorer ship that has apparently been downgraded from the capable fighter it was under Riker. Although if your going to send out exploratory ships, why would Starfleet cut them off at the knees and not arm and shield them well?

Im really hoping there is a twist to “Jack Crusher”, because again is such an old a stupid worn out trope at this point. I’m going to speculate that maybe he’s not fully Picard son, that maybe Bev was fiddling with DNA , augmentation etc hence why she had to keep him secret. Still as mentioned above, there is just no way Weasley or Deanna could not have known, heck even Starfleet Medical/Science had to know about him. Picard whines that Bev just up and left 20 yrs ago without a word and never contacted anyone from the old crew. He couldn’t look up what she had been doing in logs or records? If he was created during the second season when she was gone, when did she and Picard get it on? How on a ship the size of Ent D did gossip about them not circulate? Again I’m thinking some DNA messing about on Bev part. 
 

As for Raffi, I never even bothered with her scenes, until Worf came out. Raffi in the Underworld of crime is just not interesting. 

[marinw]

I have no doubt that in the 24th Century there is excellent birth control. Which nobody uses for some reason.

Vadic’s ship reminds me of something from Battlestar Galactica or Babylon 5

I like Shaw. I shouldn’t but he is fun to watch.

Edited February 24, 2023 by marinw

[Noneofyourbusiness]

What annoys me is that Jack is going by Crusher when he's not descended from the Crusher family. If it's not Picard, it should be Howard, Beverly's maiden name.

Also, it occurred to me that it probably never occurred to the writers this is a setting where it would be relatively easy to have a child by a deceased spouse.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Stardancer Supreme]

Sigh. I was hoping for a clone of Original Jack Crusher...  Okay.  I'll buy Jack (Should have named him anything but Jack Crusher!) being Picard's son if the writers come up with a really good, really plausible reason for Beverly to have gone dark with him and cutting everyone else off for decades.  Otherwise I am going to pretend that Jack is the con man he claims to be.

This last season of STP is all about legacy, whether Picard likes it or not!

Listen, Shaw may be an asshat who clearly doesn't have the respect of his crew, but Riker and Picard outrank him.  I would have handed the ship over to them and prepare a long report to Starfleet Command later.   I thought Riker was talking to Picard about taking so damn long to commandeer the Titan, not that "Icanseethatheisyourson" nonsense.  Like it was said above, this isn't the first time Picard has had his DNA swiped from him; the first thing I would have done was check to see if he is my son, damn privacy!

Worf is in play! Cool, cool.  So Raffi is still on the outs with her son and even played the "Starfleet before family" card again with her ex-husband. Oh Raffi.  You shouldn't even have bothered to have a family if you are going to always leave them for Starfleet.

 

[starri]

10 minutes ago, marinw said:

I have no doubt that in the 23rd Century there is excellent birth control. Which nobody uses for some reason.

Well, if Picard, like Sisko, missed his shot that month...

I ultimately don't think I have a problem with Picard and Beverly having a child, because I did always ship them a little, but they're going to really have to tapdance to make the timeline make sense.  

[MissLucas]

12 minutes ago, marinw said:

I have no doubt that in the 23rd Century there is excellent birth control. Which nobody uses for some reason.

Vadic’s ship reminds me of something from Battlestar Galactica or Babylon 5

I like Shaw. I shouldn’t but he is fun to watch.

Glad I'm not the only one who thought 'It's the Vorlons!'

[marinw]

On 2/23/2023 at 10:42 PM, MissLucas said:

It’s the Vorlons

That’s the one! It’s been a long time since I’ve seen Bab 5.

Worf looks great.

Edited February 26, 2023 by marinw

[Stardancer Supreme]

Oh, and while that scene between Beverly and Picard on the bridge was hella dramatic (not in the good way), I would have been petty enough to make her tell me out of her mouth that Jack was my son.  There was no need for that "look"; you should have been told me about him!

[paigow]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

Vadic’s ship reminds me of something from Battlestar Galactica or Babylon 5

Romulan mining ship commanded by Nero

[formerlyfreedom]

Please remember to be respectful to your fellow posters. Differing opinions are fine and discussing these respectfully is great — jumping on someone because you disagree with their opinion is NOT okay. Thank you!

[storyskip]

Anyone else considering the possibility that Jean-Luc is lying?

Just bear with me a minute.

Beverly said “trust no one” and especially not to bring in StarFleet.  Giving the writers the benefit of the doubt, Jean-Luc is fast on his feet and strained 20 years aside, by just coming out to the nebulae he’s backing Beverly’s play.

A quick, down and dirty “excuse” to override the sitting Captain and try to run/hide/buy time would be “kid’s my son so I’m going to save him!” Then unwind the details later.

The writers may prove me a fool, but I think Jean-Luc ran with a handy assumption that suited his needs in a tense moment. I don’t think it’s the reality of the situation.

[norcalgal]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Worf!!!!

bad ass Worf was the best thing about this episode 

Part of me wants to wait and see because I still want to think that Jack being Picard's son is just way too obvious at this point.  

this is what I think as well.  I feel there will be a twist and it will turn out he’s NOT Picard’s son (and maybe not even Beverly’s son)

 Ed Speleers is competent enough here, but every time I watch him, I have a feeling that the description for the character was "Get an affordable Taron Egerton for the role."  Because he kind of feels like the TV budgeted version of Taron Egerton.

omg, now I can’t unsee Speelers as Taron!
 

I knew Amanda Plummer was going to be showing up here as the villain, but I was not prepared for how gloriously over-the-top it would be!  Between that accent, long speeches about birds, and freaking smoking a damn cigar in her captain's chair, it was like watching an actual Bond villain in Star Trek!  Loved it!

wow, until I read it on this forum, I didn’t know General Chang/Captain Von Trapp was her IRL father!

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Thought Need sounded familiar.  So, we got both Aaron Stanford

I know Aaron from La Femme Nikita and X-Men 

Hope the Worf reveal is going to lead to Raffi and her story merging into the main arc soon, because her stuff isn't exactly grabbing me at the moment.

Yeah, the Raffi parts are damn boring 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by norcalgal