S02.E16: Isaac’s Book

[Annber03]

7 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Speaking of Baxter, I'm amazed at how long it took me to realize he has a bayonet sticking out of his chest!  Guess I was distracted by the fife.

I totally missed that, too, until somebody on another site pointed it out recently :p. Poor Baxter...

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Assuming Sam's book does eventually get published it would be interesting to see if any descendants of the Higgintoot family come out of the woodwork. I know Isaac didn't have any children but he might have had siblings who have modern descendants. 

In the episode where we saw Isaac's wife tending for him on his death bed in the tent, did they say what became of her? Could she have been pregnant and survived long enough to give birth to a Little Toot?

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

In the episode where we saw Isaac's wife tending for him on his death bed in the tent, did they say what became of her? Could she have been pregnant and survived long enough to give birth to a Little Toot?

They never did, no, but I've seen some people speculating about that possibility, too. Would be interesting to see Isaac's reaction to that kind of a reveal. 

(Also, LOL at "Little Toot" XD.)

[KarenX]

5 hours ago, ams1001 said:

That's a great idea! I'd read it!

Well… there’s a two-men Regency romance called Manners & Mannerisms by Tanya Chris that I borrowed from the public library for my Kindle. But I also would prefer to read a Nigel/Isaac romance. Especially if it ended up with them as ghosts at a romantic B&B getaway.

I’m surprised she didn’t document everything Isaac said and just pitch it as a novel.

As for Baxter and the fifing… when Nigel and Isaac took their first walk around the grounds to discuss the peace (and other matters), Nigel told Baxter to stand down and Baxter did. Has there been any fifing since?

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, KarenX said:

As for Baxter and the fifing… when Nigel and Isaac took their first walk around the grounds to discuss the peace (and other matters), Nigel told Baxter to stand down and Baxter did. Has there been any fifing since?

According to IMDb, Chad Andrews/Baxter has had some other projects.  
If he gets a main, ongoing part, maybe we’ll get an offhand query from Sam to Nigel.
“By the way, where’s Baxter, your fife player?”  
to which Nigel will reply:  
“Oh. I told him to stand down, and he was sucked off.” 
——followed by Sam making various faces, from amused to confused.

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, ChitChat said:

He probably disappeared much like the headless guy that was walking around.  I think that he was intact, but then his head fell off and he wandered off, IIRC!

We've seen him a east once since. He was going to be Flower and thor's third.

[chaifan]

Given the pretty good record keeping of the time, I could see Isaac's name being found in all sorts of historical records, it's just that no one paid any attention to him before.  But I agree, I can't see how there would be enough for Sam to write a true historical biography about Isaac.  I think historical fiction would be more appropriate, sort of a Revolutionary War Forrest Gump - the guy always in the background at famous events. 

Either way, it doesn't bother me what they do.  I'm not going to nit pick about historical accuracy on a show about ghosts. 

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Could she have been pregnant and survived long enough to give birth to a Little Toot?

OK, that made me think that if Little Toot was a girl, maybe her nickname was Tootsie.  And maybe she became the inventor (or inspiration) of the Tootsie Roll.  Now that would make Isaac, or at least his progeny, more famous than Hamilton!  Huzzah!

[shapeshifter]

31 minutes ago, chaifan said:

OK, that made me think that if Little Toot was a girl, maybe her nickname was Tootsie.  And maybe she became the inventor (or inspiration) of the Tootsie Roll.  Now that would make Isaac, or at least his progeny, more famous than Hamilton!  Huzzah!

I reacted to this👆with an LOL emoji because I'm, like, twelve, and, you know:
Tootsie Roll inventor's father died of dysentery. 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

OK, that made me think that if Little Toot was a girl, maybe her nickname was Tootsie.  And maybe she became the inventor (or inspiration) of the Tootsie Roll.  Now that would make Isaac, or at least his progeny, more famous than Hamilton!  Huzzah!

Brilliant!

27 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Tootsie Roll inventor's father died of dysentery. 

Oh, the irony!! :) 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Tootsie Roll inventor's father died of dysentery. 

Sounds like we found a major "spoiler"!!!!!!! Isaac's posthumous baby invented Tootsie Rolls! 

This is in line with the "spoiler" that Flower's pre-pot story was the inspiration for Love Story!

By the end of the show we find out that the reason the ghosts haven't been Sucked Off yet is that they are all supposed to be famous for something but haven't yet gotten the recognition they deserve. We've cracked the code Huzzah!

*No real spoilers have been uncovered, just some wildly fun speculation based on cool coincidences. 

So... Trevor is the real Wolf of Wallstreet, Alberta was the most powerful female bootlegger of the 20s, Pete is the most prolific serial killer of all time (could you imagine Thor's reaction? He'd be impressed) lol. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

In the episode where we saw Isaac's wife tending for him on his death bed in the tent, did they say what became of her? Could she have been pregnant and survived long enough to give birth to a Little Toot?

That doesn't seem at all likely. Isaac was away, out on the battlefield, for who knows how long. His wife only showed up because he was at death's door. Also, I got the distinct impression he never consummated his marriage. In the 1-hour pilot when he was dictating his story to Sam he said he and his wife slept in separate bedrooms to "keep the romance alive." 

[Chit Chat]

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

By the end of the show we find out that the reason the ghosts haven't been Sucked Off yet is that they are all supposed to be famous for something but haven't yet gotten the recognition they deserve. We've cracked the code Huzzah!

Another brilliant idea!!  I love it!

[enduringforce]

Another thing, I love that Sam and Jay have a way to talk to each other without the ghosts by driving off property. Jay is really a great guy to support his wife so well even though she seems to ignore him.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, enduringforce said:

Another thing, I love that Sam and Jay have a way to talk to each other without the ghosts by driving off property. Jay is really a great guy to support his wife so well even though she seems to ignore him.

He really knows how to walk that very fine line of rolling with the crazy situations Sam finds herself in while also trying to keep any potential fallout of those crazy situations from getting TOO messy, be it for her or anyone else. 

[Mabinogia]

34 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

He really knows how to walk that very fine line of rolling with the crazy situations Sam finds herself in while also trying to keep any potential fallout of those crazy situations from getting TOO messy, be it for her or anyone else. 

They really have hit the sweet spot with him. He's not a total push over, just accepting everything she says and does. But he also does seem to love the insanity of it all. He's along for the ride but isn't going to lay down and get run over by the speeding bus of crazy. 

I'm sure he has a fault but right now, he's the total package to me. I'm pretty sure if I start online dating my preference will be "Jay Arondekar from Ghosts". 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, enduringforce said:

I love that Sam and Jay have a way to talk to each other without the ghosts by driving off property.

The Sam & Jay car chats just over the property line remind me of the Cone Of Silence from Get Smart.

(My closest work friend and I got in the habit of going to our "Cone of Silence" to hash out issues, which was a spot between 2 public places, where people only rushed past, and was out of earshot of our boss's or anyone's offices.)

[Annber03]

15 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

The Sam & Jay car chats just over the property line remind me of the Cone Of Silence from Get Smart.

Ha! Yes! Luckily for them, though, unlike the Cone of Silence, Sam and Jay can actually hear each other when they talk in private :p. 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm sure he has a fault but right now, he's the total package to me.

What really won me over was when he got upset with the guest who said something bad about Sam's perfume, which was her mother's. When a man pays attention to those kinds of details, well, you know you've got a keeper!!

[possibilities]

I just wish they'd stop making Sam a liar so often, and also have her treat Jay as well as he treats her. She's getting less likable lately.

[basil]

16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, I got the distinct impression he never consummated his marriage. In the 1-hour pilot when he was dictating his story to Sam he said he and his wife slept in separate bedrooms to "keep the romance alive." 

Oh, I think Isaac was too much of a gentleman *not* to do his husbandly duty on occasion. It was not uncommon for gay men to marry women, father children - and enjoy their men discreetly elsewhere.

[Mabinogia]

9 hours ago, basil said:

Oh, I think Isaac was too much of a gentleman *not* to do his husbandly duty on occasion. It was not uncommon for gay men to marry women, father children - and enjoy their men discreetly elsewhere.

I agree. Isaac clearly cared about his wife and if he could manage to get her pregnant he wouldn't have to feel so guilty about leaving her alone, or about his dalliances elsewhere. I am sure he did his husbandly duty as much as it may have pained him. Back then it was very much expected that married people would have children so I'm sure they would have made some effort. 

I also can't imagine that she would have cared enough to bring his uniform for him to be buried in if he had never even bothered to consummate their marriage. Unless she, too, was gay and was equally pleased not to have hetro relations. In which case, that would be quite sad that they never knew about the other. . 

[shapeshifter]

25 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I also can't imagine that she would have cared enough to bring his uniform for him to be buried in if he had never even bothered to consummate their marriage. Unless she, too, was gay and was equally pleased not to have hetro relations. In which case, that would be quite sad that they never knew about the other. . 

I suppose Sam could meet Isaac's wife's ghost an find out that she too was gay and maybe spill the beans about Isaac, perhaps allowing her to get sucked off. 
That term never fails to deliver, does it?😂

[iMonrey]

Quote

I just wish they'd stop making Sam a liar so often, and also have her treat Jay as well as he treats her. She's getting less likable lately.

Aww, I don't think her propensity for lying makes her unlikable. She's flawed like everyone else and in this case she just didn't want to disappoint Isaac. That was actually rather kind-hearted of her, and she only got into trouble because Trevor posted on Facebook. 

Quote

Oh, I think Isaac was too much of a gentleman *not* to do his husbandly duty on occasion. It was not uncommon for gay men to marry women, father children - and enjoy their men discreetly elsewhere.

When he tried to "seduce" Hetty he couldn't go through with it. Also, Isaac was deeply in the closet, he did not have dalliances with other men despite what he was feeling for them. 

Whether or not his marriage was ever consummated is anyone's guess, until we hear from Isaac himself, but it's quite possible his wife would have been happy with a platonic marriage.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Aww, I don't think her propensity for lying makes her unlikable.

I don't like her frequent lies to Jay about what the ghosts are saying, like when they want her to do something she doesn't want to do, so Jay ends up doing it.  He's very gullible in that regard!  Trevor needs to warn him that he's getting played sometimes.  

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Trevor needs to warn him that he's getting played sometimes.

I really do want the ghosts to start narcing on her more. They do it to Jay, tattling when he does something he said he didn't. It just feels unfair. Either tell on them both or don't. It gives Sam too much power in their relationship. I still like Sam a lot, but I dislike that aspect of their relationship. 

Jay has to seriously and completely trust Sam, while she can spy on him any time she wants. I mean, he doesn't really know that the ghosts aren't watching him shower. He has to trust that this is true. He also can't sneak a snack without worrying that one of them is there and going to go tell Sam. And despite that, he is still awesome! I'd be a paranoid wreck.

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I really do want the ghosts to start narcing on her more.

They could also use this as leverage against Sam in getting what they want.  I'd like to see them help Jay out though.  

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, ChitChat said:

don't like her frequent lies to Jay about what the ghosts are saying, like when they want her to do something she doesn't want to do, so Jay ends up doing it.  He's very gullible in that regard!  Trevor needs to warn him that he's getting played sometimes.  

I thought Trevor being able to post in Facebook a comprehensive comment about Sam publishing a book was a sign of his increasing ability to use his “power,” which could be a hint at future communications with Jay. 
Or had Sam already posted all the information, and Trevor just had to add: “They accepted it!”?

[Badsamaritan]

Pete is right. Sam doesn't deserve Jay. 

They should get the ghosts a burner phone with only Jay's number in it so Trevor can text him "in case of emergency". Oh wait! Alberta can talk to Alexa! She could ask Alexa for something that could tip Jay off to Sam's lying. 😉

[kathyk24]

1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

They could also use this as leverage against Sam in getting what they want.  I'd like to see them help Jay out though.  

The ghosts will never tattle on Sam because she gives them what they want. Sam was able to connect the younger ghosts will their living family Jay can't do that. I've always wanted Jay to see the ghosts.

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought Trevor being able to post in Facebook a comprehensive comment about Sam publishing a book was a sign of his increasing ability to use his “power,” which could be a hint at future communications with Jay. 

Oooh, maybe all that laundry he and Hettie have been doing has been increasing his ghost powers. *wink wink*

[PaulE]

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I really do want the ghosts to start narcing on her more. They do it to Jay, tattling when he does something he said he didn't. It just feels unfair. Either tell on them both or don't. It gives Sam too much power in their relationship. I still like Sam a lot, but I dislike that aspect of their relationship. 

Jay has to seriously and completely trust Sam, while she can spy on him any time she wants. I mean, he doesn't really know that the ghosts aren't watching him shower. He has to trust that this is true. He also can't sneak a snack without worrying that one of them is there and going to go tell Sam. And despite that, he is still awesome! I'd be a paranoid wreck.

I totally agree.  In fact, I think that Jay has already been reduced to being either a dupe or a minor character in certain episodes because he can't be fully involved in the drama.  I didn't like it when Sam tricked him into eating the ram's testicles when in fact Thor asked her to eat them--not really a nice thing for a supposedly loving wife to do, especially when he had to do it twice.  I realize that Jay's inability to see the ghosts adds to the comedic conflict in the show (I think even Utkarsh Ambudkar admitted that in an interview somewhere), but the danger is that he becomes marginalized or just a joke.  The ghosts have reason to be grateful to him: after all, he can't see or hear them, but he's willing to do things for them anyway and doesn't resent them.  Sam at least has the reward of being able to establish relationships with them, but Jay is always left out.  He's a very special person, as a lot of people have already said.

I wish, when Sam and Jay fell though the floor, that Jay had been given the temporary ability to see the ghosts--maybe for just a day or two.  That way, he'd have been able to connect with them directly and they'd be more of a reality to him, even after the ability went away.  Another possibility could have been that he developed the ability to hear them but not see them.

[Babalu06]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought Trevor being able to post in Facebook a comprehensive comment about Sam publishing a book was a sign of his increasing ability to use his “power,” which could be a hint at future communications with Jay. 

I don’t know if Trevor’s skills have increased. I tend to think his communication is still painstaking but, since Sam and Jay moved in, he has access to better means (mobile phones, computers) and more motivation (establishing a relationship with Jay’s sister, saving Sam from the vault). But he could be getting better with practice, too!

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Babalu06 said:

I don’t know if Trevor’s skills have increased. I tend to think his communication is still painstaking but, since Sam and Jay moved in, he has access to better means (mobile phones, computers) and more motivation (establishing a relationship with Jay’s sister, saving Sam from the vault). But he could be getting better with practice, too!

Yes, I agree Trevor is motivated by opportunity, success, and inspiration. 🙂
And 😜 also:

9 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Oooh, maybe all that laundry he and Hettie have been doing has been increasing his ghost powers. *wink wink*

And, could lead to:

On 3/4/2023 at 10:54 AM, Mabinogia said:

By the end of the show we find out that the reason the ghosts haven't been Sucked Off yet is that they are all supposed to be famous for something but haven't yet gotten the recognition they deserve.

…with a last shot of an older Sam speaking to an audience at her book talk for a title something like:  
 “Lives That Could Have Been: A True History of the Almost Famous of Woodstone BnB”

[iMonrey]

Quote

He also can't sneak a snack without worrying that one of them is there and going to go tell Sam. And despite that, he is still awesome! I'd be a paranoid wreck.

Yes, if you really think about it, Jay's life is pretty creepy. Sam walks into the kitchen or the living room, Jay is there working, and the ghosts are all just standing around watching him! And he has no idea but knows it's a possibility. That would really freak me out, knowing that at any given moment when I'm alone in a room there could be up to eight ghosts just standing around watching what I'm doing. 

[Driad]

Sam can see and hear the ghosts.  Jay can do neither.  Maybe some people can see ghosts but not hear them, or hear them but not see them?

[Daff]

On 3/4/2023 at 12:25 PM, iMonrey said:

That doesn't seem at all likely. Isaac was away, out on the battlefield, for who knows how long. His wife only showed up because he was at death's door. Also, I got the distinct impression he never consummated his marriage. In the 1-hour pilot when he was dictating his story to Sam he said he and his wife slept in separate bedrooms to "keep the romance alive." 

But that would not have been public knowledge, and separate bedrooms were the norm. Any child she had would have been attributed to him and have his name. You know what they say about the aristocracy-half or more shouldn’t have those titles, legitimately.

[Ilovepie]

I think Sam should actually write a fictional ghost series with the setting being Woodstone. Each book could tell the story of a  "character" that died at the house, and she could sell their stories as historical fiction with actual facts weaved in - there is enough evidence that most of the more modern ghosts were real people, and the older ones like Sass or Thor that have no real evidence of existing could be explained as an archetype of people that she "discovers" have existed in the area over the centuries. She could start with Sass and say she was inspired to do it after what happened with the tree......

[Mabinogia]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

…with a last shot of an older Sam speaking to an audience at her book talk for a title something like:  
 “Lives That Could Have Been: A True History of the Almost Famous of Woodstone BnB”

I want this book. I want it bad!!!!!

[AncientNewbie]

Having some publishing/writing experience, I could say "that's not how that works" and laugh it off, whereas the following show about practicing law and illegally obtaining evidence drives me to throw things. I just get the feeling the writers made it "three books a year" to make it sound prestigious even if that's not a model that would actually work. 

I will be interested to see if Sam having an uncheckable primary source ends up being a plot point in the future, sort of like how her reliance on Sass burned her with the tree. Conflict with an esteemed scholar who is just wrong, but she can't really prove it would be a comic bit I'd like to see.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I will be interested to see if Sam having an uncheckable primary source ends up being a plot point in the future, sort of like how her reliance on Sass burned her with the tree. Conflict with an esteemed scholar who is just wrong, but she can't really prove it would be a comic bit I'd like to see.

I"m not sure why it would. She's not writing anything controversial or about anyone famous. In the pilot Isaac had Trevor Google him and all it said was where he graduated from and that he died of dysentery. He was a literal footnote somewhere. 

Now if he'd been famous, or had descendants that wanted to challenge the narrative, then it might be an issue. But if it's a story about some random Joe nobody's ever heard of before, so as long as the publisher is confident the story wouldn't be challenged, I wouldn't think there'd be a problem. 

[possibilities]

But it's TV. There can always be problems.

[Eindestand]

"Can I honeydew ya?"
OMG, too funny.
The illusory incongruence, and Wisocky's delivery, had me rolling.

[Annber03]

40 minutes ago, Eindestand said:

"Can I honeydew ya?"
OMG, too funny.
The illusory incongruence, and Wisocky's delivery, had me rolling.

She rattled those examples off awfully damn fast :p. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/5/2023 at 12:04 PM, Mabinogia said:

I agree. Isaac clearly cared about his wife and if he could manage to get her pregnant he wouldn't have to feel so guilty about leaving her alone, or about his dalliances elsewhere.

On 3/5/2023 at 12:32 PM, iMonrey said:

Also, Isaac was deeply in the closet, he did not have dalliances with other men despite what he was feeling for them. 

Agreed.

 

[Nialla]

On 3/6/2023 at 11:31 AM, Daff said:

But that would not have been public knowledge, and separate bedrooms were the norm. Any child she had would have been attributed to him and have his name. You know what they say about the aristocracy-half or more shouldn’t have those titles, legitimately.

I could easily see his wife being Involved with someone else right about the time Isaac died, maybe shortly after. She could have had a "10 month pregnancy" and folks might ignore the math in favor of saying it was her husband's child.

It could be interesting to see Isaac react to her "betrayal" then slowly realize her descendants aren't his, yet they're carrying on the Higgintoot name. I think that might mean a lot to him.