Season 5 Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers (US)

[Rhondinella]

I speculate that this show will continue to recycle the same 5 plot lines until they've explored every possible iteration of them, and then do them all over again at least once.  Oh. . . .wait.  They've already done that.  Then I've got nothin'.  But you guys feel free to speculate away. (Use spoiler thread for spoiled speculation)

[MissPrentiss]

The Blake-Mary-Tony triangle will be dragged out into boringness.

Edith and her secret baby is going to blow up in her face.

[Andorra]

My speculation is:

Sarah Bunting will come back worse and disappear midseason. I think she will come back as a political enemy for Tom and try to sabotage his political ambitions.

There will be a new love interest for Tom Branson and it will be a posh girl. My hope would be Madeline Allsop.

Mary will pick her suitor only in the second half of the season. My bet is on Evelyn Napier. Tony will fall in love with Rose instead and Blake will leave brokenhearted but with dignity.

Tom Branson will find out about Edith's Baby in the first episode. Something will happen with the Drewes and Edith will have tell her family the truth.

I think either Martha or Harold will die and Cora will go to America for the first two episodes.

[DeepRunner]

My speculation:

 

* One of three characters will die--Cora, Thomas the Vampire, or Bates

 

* Gregson is found in Munich, mangled and marred--sort of a Patrick Gordon scene, sans the burns

 

* Molesley and Baxter do NOT connect

 

* Gillingham the Greedy and Blake the Mud Wrestler both jilt Mary (Leaving Evelyn Napier, the old standby, well, standing by)

 

* More misery for Anna and Bates

 

* If Cora dies, Robert starts looking for contact info for Jane Moorsum

 

* Violet makes it to S6 (if there is one)

 

* Isobel is stuck in a love triangle between Merton and Clarkson

 

* Carson and Mrs. Hughes retire, get married, and go off to the Highlands

[helenamonster]

 

* If Cora dies, Robert starts looking for contact info for Jane Moorsum

 

Hee! Poor Jane. Forced to leave a job she was perfectly good at just because Robert was having a sad.

 

I predict something will happen to the Drews (Drewes?) and Edith will reclaim her daughter. And, instead of getting a scene of Robert, Cora, and Mary berating her for her bad choices, I will finally get my long-awaited Edith Smackdown where she tells her awful family exactly where they can shove it. Around the same time, Gregson shows up, alive and divorced, and he and Edith go off to have their HEA with their daughter. We're four years overdue for Edith finally having a victory.

 

We're also four years overdue for an Anna and Bates story that isn't accompanied by their trademark sad music. After the whole thing with Green is resolved (Bates will end up not being the one who pushed him in front of the Bus of Justice), we'll be getting Baby Bates. However, no pregnancy on this show is allowed to exist without some accompanying misfortune, and this still is Anna and Bates, so Anna will probably end up going into labor in a ditch with only Thomas around to help her before all is said and done.

 

Also, if this isn't the final season, I predict it will end in suspense and/or sadness, following the pattern of the previous four seasons.

Season 1 - WWI is announced (suspenseful/not good)

Season 2 - Mary and Matthew get engaged (happy)

Season 3 - Matthew dead on the side of the road (sad/suspenseful/shocking)

Season 4 - Carson and Mrs. Hughes holding hands and walking into the ocean (peaceful/cute/blessedly devoid of a dead body)

Edited June 10, 2014 by helenamonster

[CofCinci]

Also, if this isn't the final season, I predict it will end in suspense and/or sadness, following the pattern of the previous four seasons.

Season 1 - WWI is announced (suspenseful/not good)

Season 2 - Mary and Matthew get engaged (happy)

Season 3 - Matthew dead on the side of the road (sad/suspenseful/shocking)

Season 4 - Carson and Mrs. Hughes holding hands and walking into the ocean (peaceful/cute/blessedly devoid of a dead body)

Going by that pattern, I suspect that the 5th season will end with the Dowager Countess' death.

[Badger]

Julian Fellowes has already said he will not kill off the Dowager Countess.  If Maggie Smith decides she's had enough, Violet will just leave and maybe go to the seashore or something for her health.  

[annzeepark914]

Whew - after reading all these speculation posts, I'm getting nervous about the new season.

[helenamonster]

I hope Edith figures out that she is only a biological parent to her daughter and lets her foster parents raise her without interference.

 

Unfortunately, that ship sailed the second Edith decided to go back to Switzerland. She wants to have her cake and eat it too, and she seems totally oblivious to the fact that this whole thing is going to blow up in her face.

 

If nothing happens to the Drewes that would force Edith to reclaim her daughter, then I predict Mrs. Drewe (assuming she's been cast) will eventually get suspicious that Lady Edith has taken such an interest in the little girl she and her husband adopted. Then she'll present Edith with an ultimatum: either leave her family alone or she'll spill the beans about the whole thing. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Schroeders, out for revenge, do some digging and find out about the woman who had originally promised them a daughter and come to Downton to confront her.

 

I don't like disliking Edith, but this storyline has just started and it's already turned her into a selfish idiot. For once I won't feel bad about her misfortune. I realize she was in an impossible situation, but she chose the worst course of action and she'll have to live with the consequences. Unfortunately, so will her daughter, who I do feel bad for.

[lottiedottie]

The past season was so forgettable, that reading this thread has me going "Oh yeah...I forgot that happened!"

 

I think there is one thing we can most definitely count on--that the Mary love triangle being boring as hell. I miss the glory that was season 1!

[DeepRunner]

I am waiting for the great reveal that Edith is an adopted child, born to Rosamund. TPTB dropped loadsa hints that those two were more connected than as aunt and daughter. If that really does happen, then Downton will be in full soap opera mode. The parallels between them are interesting. Violet holds Rosamund with the same level of regard as Mary does Edith. In Season 1, both were pretty catty, Edith moreso only because she was there the whole season.

 

One other thing I hope happens in S5...Mary gets seriously taken down a couple of haughty notches. 

[helenamonster]

I am waiting for the great reveal that Edith is an adopted child, born to Rosamund. TPTB dropped loadsa hints that those two were more connected than as aunt and daughter.

 

At this point, I'd be very surprised if this does not happen. I just got my Season 4 DVDs over the weekend, so I've been rewatching it. The other night I was watching the episode where Edith sleeps with Gregson, and I was really struck by the scene with Edith and Rosamund the morning after. I remember people mentioning it on TWoP when it originally aired, but I hadn't taken much notice until now: Edith and Rosamund had the exact same shades of blue and orange in their respective outfits during that scene. As I go through the rest of the season again I'm going to try to see if they do this again, but that might have just been the biggest hint of all.

 

I'm kind of looking forward to a massive showdown now...Edith's and Rosamund's secrets coming out at the same time during some big dinner party at the Abbey. I could totally get into that.

[Badger]

I think at the very least, Rosamund went through a very similar situation as Edith. 

[DianeDobbler]

I think that nothing's going to happen with Tom Branson until/unless some suitor catches fire for Lady Mary. IMO, her current triangle isn't raising a pulse. Nobody cares. OTOH, people like Tom, and they like Mary. I've seen this before with show leads that the show runners don't necessarily want to put together, but one of the leads doesn't catch fire with anyone else, so the opposite person (in this case, Branson) is held in limbo as a safety net.

[helenamonster]

But would the show really ever put Mary and Tom together? That's a little icky, no? I mean, I know this is the same show where Mary was all but set to marry her second cousin, Patrick, and actually did end up married to distant cousin Matthew, but marrying cousins was a common practice among aristocracy and royalty at the time. In Mary's case, it was to keep the title and the estate in the immediate family (though she really did love Matthew and wanted to marry him anyway). But something about the possibility of Mary and Tom turning romantic rubs me the wrong way, even though they're not related by blood. Plus, how confusing for poor Sybbie if Mary suddenly became Aunt Mommy (tm Modern Family).

[Tetraneutron]

Julian Fellowes said Mary and Tom are staying friends. Which is good. I mean, his first wife's sister?

[Libby96]

Just give Tom someone besides Sarah Bunting. No more Sarah Bunting!

[helenamonster]

Madeleine Allsopp is single and looking!

 

Just finished rewatching Series 4 recently (I'll probs watch it one more time the week leading up to the Series 5 premiere) so I have a couple more predictions based on what appears to have been telegraphed. Regarding Ms. Bunting...I don't see her as a viable love interest for Tom. They've set her up as a direct antagonist to the Crawleys (saying Cora's coat of arms was a dollar sign, insisting that Tom will never really be one of them, etc.). So unless Tom decides to denounce the Crawleys and go on his merry way with Sarah (which would be a huuuuge step backwards in character development), or she gets to know the family better and changes her tune, where could this story be going? I'm thinking she's taking over the role that Edna played by making Tom feel bad for moving up in the world. Eventually he'll grow back his spine and tell her to either see types instead of people like he does or hit the road.

 

I'm also all but convinced that Baxter and Thomas will insert themselves into the did he/didn't he of Bates killing Green. Baxter made some comment about not liking London much, so I'm guessing that's where her big secret went down. At first I thought she might be another of Green's victims, but she got along swimmingly with him when he came back to visit so that's probably not it. I also think it will be revealed that Bates didn't kill Green. Anna was wayyyy too chill in the CS, and they deliberately kept her out of the business with the ticket. She knows where Bates was that day, but for some reason hasn't told anybody else.

 

Finally, I think Mary will choose Blake over Gillingham. Gillingham seems like he was just a glorified vehicle for Green and not much else. I really don't care who she chooses. They're both dull as dishwater and I'm tired of every single guy who walks through the front door slobbering all over her. I'd be much more interested in a triangle with Isobel, Lord Merton, and Dr. Clarkson (really hoping the actor properly grieved for his wife and was ready to come back to work, I miss him).

[Athena]

I'd be much more interested in a triangle with Isobel, Lord Merton, and Dr. Clarkson (really hoping the actor properly grieved for his wife and was ready to come back to work, I miss him).

 

This crossed my mind too when Merton started making courtly gestures to Isobel. I'd watch it because you never see that kind of love triangle of older people on TV. Even though each man has their faults, Isobel makes them both better when she shares screen time with them. Also, it'd be more subtle than the posturing of Blake and Gilingham.

 

Blake is basically Matthew so I can see Mary choosing him. Gilingham is better looking though and I'd like Cullen, aka Mr Tatiana Maslany, to keep working.

[oceanblue]

And both men make Isobel better too.  Still competent, but less insufferable about it.

[Badger]

My take on the Mr. Green mystery is that Bates is going to learn that he died and realizes that to some people, he's a suspect.  So he's going to try to figure out what happened.  I think Anna will initially believe he killed Green but will ultimately end up trying to help Bates.  

[DeepRunner]

Madeleine Allsopp is single and looking!

 

Just finished rewatching Series 4 recently (I'll probs watch it one more time the week leading up to the Series 5 premiere) so I have a couple more predictions based on what appears to have been telegraphed. Regarding Ms. Bunting...I don't see her as a viable love interest for Tom. They've set her up as a direct antagonist to the Crawleys (saying Cora's coat of arms was a dollar sign, insisting that Tom will never really be one of them, etc.). So unless Tom decides to denounce the Crawleys and go on his merry way with Sarah (which would be a huuuuge step backwards in character development), or she gets to know the family better and changes her tune, where could this story be going? I'm thinking she's taking over the role that Edna played by making Tom feel bad for moving up in the world. Eventually he'll grow back his spine and tell her to either see types instead of people like he does or hit the road.

 

I'm also all but convinced that Baxter and Thomas will insert themselves into the did he/didn't he of Bates killing Green. Baxter made some comment about not liking London much, so I'm guessing that's where her big secret went down. At first I thought she might be another of Green's victims, but she got along swimmingly with him when he came back to visit so that's probably not it. I also think it will be revealed that Bates didn't kill Green. Anna was wayyyy too chill in the CS, and they deliberately kept her out of the business with the ticket. She knows where Bates was that day, but for some reason hasn't told anybody else.

 

Finally, I think Mary will choose Blake over Gillingham. Gillingham seems like he was just a glorified vehicle for Green and not much else. I really don't care who she chooses. They're both dull as dishwater and I'm tired of every single guy who walks through the front door slobbering all over her. I'd be much more interested in a triangle with Isobel, Lord Merton, and Dr. Clarkson (really hoping the actor properly grieved for his wife and was ready to come back to work, I miss him).

 

Hmmmmmm...Sarah Bunting...hmmm...Why introduce her if not to try to put Branson with her? Not sure it is so much Ross and Rachel, Peter and Olivia will they or won't they. Branson doesn't feel like he fits in, no matter how much Violet assures him the Crawleys are his family now. Why would TPTB make Miss Bunting hit the bricks as fast as they did Edna?

 

Regarding Blake and Gillingham, each has the excitement of watching pavement be made. Matthew was at least interesting (big nod at Dan Stevens for his desire to do something different so that he wouldn't be typecast), and challenged Mary. Chahles (misspelling intentional) is...mmm...stuffy, and Gillingham is honest, earnest, and needy. Sort of like Evelyn Napier, only not quite as much of a yawner.

 

I think it is more likely that Thomas the Vampire rather than Baxter will be the one tracking the Green and Bates story. Remember S3 when Bates was in prison (Fellowes really could have let him out a few episodes sooner, although all the Bates and Anna shippers would not have had the payoff grasp and kiss), Thomas would have had Bates "hanged by the neck, until [he is] dead." Thomas has always had a jones for sticking it to Bates. Personally, as much as I dislike Thomas as a character, I think he is the essential evil in the cast. He makes it interesting, but they need to broaden his character, make him a bit more complex like they did in S2, and get gobsmacked a bit, as well. 

[helenamonster]

Idk there's just something about Sarah Bunting that's...off. I can't quite put my finger on it but I don't see her as a viable endgame for Tom. Cuz he'll either have to wash his hands of the Crawleys to be with her (and allow Sybbie to be raised around a woman who talks shit about her dead mother's family) or Sarah will have to have a "come to Jesus" and learn that the Crawleys aren't as bad as she thought. The first option is cringe-worthy and the second is pointless, so where is this going?

 

My take on the Mr. Green mystery is that Bates is going to learn that he died and realizes that to some people, he's a suspect.  So he's going to try to figure out what happened.  I think Anna will initially believe he killed Green but will ultimately end up trying to help Bates.  

 

Ooh, I like this idea. I could see in the first episode Gillingham coming to visit so that he can pant over Mary a little more and bringing a new valet. Everyone will wonder what happened to that fun Green fellow and the new valet will tell them about the Bus of Justice. Cue the tension.

 

I had really wanted this whole Green thing to turn into a proper whodunnit with Anna, Bates, Mrs. Hughes, and Mary as the suspects, but oh well. I'm still holding onto hope that Anna was the one who did it spontaneously, seeing him on the crowded street while out doing errands for Mary and taking advantage of the opportunity. Her anxiousness about Bates being away from the Abbey for the entire day could be chalked up to her worrying that on the off-chance an investigation was launched, he could become a suspect. By Rose's coming out next year, her fears had subsided and she was able to get the ball rolling on the healing process in a Green-free world. It's also possible that Bates bought the train ticket with the intention of going to London and killing Green and then changing his mind at the last minute (I remember we had a whole discussion on TWoP about how if he actually had taken the train that day, there wouldn't have been a ticket to find, as the stub would have been collected).

[oceanblue]

Maybe it was Anna's ticket and she shoved it into the pocket of a jacket she was giving away to get rid of it.  Why she would do this instead of burn it, I got nothing.

[Mrsjumbo]

The Mary romance- Gillingham is the safer bet, & more handsome, but would make for a duller story line unless after the wedding it comes out he was after her money.

If she picks Blake at least she will have arguments.

I would like to see more of Baxter's back story/ background. I agree that Thomas is going to get wind of the Mr. Green story & try to figure it out. I admit I want to know who pushed him into traffic. I thought when Mary burned the ticket stub that was their way of saying "this storyline is done", however, I would like to know.

It would be interesting if mrs. Drewe puts 2 & 2 together about Edith & the baby. Or a romance develops between mr drewe & Edith. Was I the only one seeing some chemistry between them? Then it could be made more dramatic by the sudden appearance of Mr. Gregson.

I hate Sarah Bunting & hope her character goes away. I find her very annoying.

I would like to see more of Rose's parents. Odd that they couldn't make it for her coming -out? And then we would see O'Brian again too. :)

[Llywela]

I would like to see more of Rose's parents. Odd that they couldn't make it for her coming -out? And then we would see O'Brian again too. :)

Not so very odd when you consider that the journey would have taken weeks. And then back again.

[Mrsjumbo]

True, but that's their only child, it's her coming- out (in front of the royal family no less), something that only happens once, like a wedding.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Mrsjumbo

[DeepRunner]

I would like to see more of Baxter's back story/ background. I agree that Thomas is going to get wind of the Mr. Green story & try to figure it out. I admit I want to know who pushed him into traffic. I thought when Mary burned the ticket stub that was their way of saying "this storyline is done", however, I would like to know.

 

I think the citizens of Downtonia fandom are eager to find out more about Baxter, and more importantly, what blackmail material Thomas has on her. I suspect she had a fling in a previous time. Some have speculated that she and Thomas are related. 

 

As for Green, The Fellowes Way would be to build all the drama around Bates, and then let it whimper out with Green just being staggeringly drunk and getting in the way of the Bus O' Justice. Regarding the burning of the ticket as an end to the storyline, to quote John Bates, "Nothing is over, and nothing is done." If we ever find out about who killed Green, it would likely be at the end of the show, where we find out Bates had been responsible for two deaths, Green and Vera.

[helenamonster]

Bates being responsible for Vera's death would be a ginormous retcon. Vera's page on the Downton wiki explains the little hints Fellowes dropped about her having ingested arsenic for a long period of time, namely the scrubbing of her fingernails (arsenic changes their pigmentation) and the "halo" that Mrs. Bartlett saw around her on the night before her death when she was standing under a street lamp (arsenic makes a person's breath florescent after awhile of being in someone's lungs). Fellowes should have had these couple of facts dropped in dialogue somewhere, since it's not exactly common knowledge (at least I don't think it is, but I almost failed chemistry) what arsenic does to the body. I myself was still doubting his innocence in that regard until I checked the wiki page.

 

I would like to see more of Baxter's back story/ background. I agree that Thomas is going to get wind of the Mr. Green story & try to figure it out. I admit I want to know who pushed him into traffic. I thought when Mary burned the ticket stub that was their way of saying "this storyline is done", however, I would like to know.

It would be interesting if mrs. Drewe puts 2 & 2 together about Edith & the baby. Or a romance develops between mr drewe & Edith. Was I the only one seeing some chemistry between them? Then it could be made more dramatic by the sudden appearance of Mr. Gregson.

 

I'm kind of amazed at myself at still being interested in Baxter, since we should have learned at least a smidgen of her backstory before the season ended. I attribute my continued interest mostly to the actress, who has done a really good job at playing Baxter as aware that she needs to make friends downstairs to please Thomas, but who also actually wants to get along with her coworkers and be liked. Also, the budding relationship between her and Molesley was a stroke of genius.

 

I don't think Fellowes would leave the Bates/Green thing unresolved. I'm not too plugged in to what the general consensus is about things among the fandom (avoiding spoilers is a full-time job) but I think it's safe to say that Anna is a fan favorite, and that the Anna-Bates pairing was, at one time, moderately popular, though Bates becoming increasingly unlikable isn't doing the couple any favors. But it doesn't bode well for a couple that is clearly endgame to never tell the audience whether one half of said couple is a murderer. This plot point needs to be resolved. Preferably towards the beginning of Season 5.

 

I'm still holding out hope that Anna will end up being the culprit, mostly because she hasn't had any semblance of control over the events surrounding the rape and it's frustrating as hell. I thinks Mrs. Hughes is awesome, a goddess among women (where is Phyllis Logan's Emmy nom?!), and I realize she only told Bates and Mary about the rape because she felt she had no other choice, but she still betrayed Anna by not keeping her secret. And while I loved, LOVED, the scene where she confronted Green and gave him the what for, I'm mad that Anna didn't get that kind of opportunity. If she was the one who killed Green, who could get a flashback of her bumping into him on the crowded street and instead of running away, giving him (quiet, unnoticeable to passerby) hell for what he did to her before seeing the BoJ and shoving him in front of it on impulse.

 

My main frustration with the rape story (besides the fact that I had to watch my favorite character get violently assaulted) is that it stopped being about Anna by the next episode. We should have gotten scenes of Anna talking about what the rape did to her personally, not just her marriage. She should have expressed some sort of annoyance with Mrs. Hughes for betraying her trust (twice!) before apologizing and understanding, instead of just handwaving it away. Instead of Anna telling Mary that she was terrified of Green and Bates being in the same room, she should have said that she couldn't stand to be in the same room with the main who clocked her clean across the face before dragging her by the hair into a room at her place of employment and raping her while her husband, friends, and coworkers sat upstairs, oblivious. JoFro played the fragility and anxiousness of a woman in that predicament to a t, but she was not given the story beats to back it up. It's like Fellowes was so focused on making sure that everyone involved got a PoV that he forgot about Anna's. As an Anna fan, I never really got closure on her part for the rape, and her killing Green would give me that. It's not outside the realm of possibility. Anna was in London the day Green died and her exact whereabouts at his time of death are unaccounted for. Brush off her worries about Bates as post-killing anxiety and you're done.

 

As for Lady Edith, I thought for a hot second they might be going somewhere romantic with her and Drewe, but I hope if she's learned anything from this ordeal, it's to not get involved with married men. I'm also super-intrigued about what Mrs. Drewe is like. Idk if she's been cast (and I'm afraid to look in case I come across other spoilers) but it will be interesting to see if she's unassuming and gets totally blindsided by the inevitable reveal, or she's calculating and does the reveal herself. Or if she's somewhere in between.

[DeepRunner]

I was not saying that I thought Bates killed Vera (or Green, for that matter). I am saying it would be an outcome that would only be revealed at the end of the show. In a DA panel a month or so ago, Fellowes said you could never be sure what Bates would do if provoked. Bates has become less a lovable oaf and much more Luca Brasi, not quite a henchman, but getting there. (I would guess there are more than a few in DA fandom who think Bates did either or both.)

 

As far as Anna goes, I find it plausible but not likely that she was the culprit, especially given how anxious she was to find out what Bates was doing in "York" while she was in London. It would not be a recon but a full rewriting of who the character is and has come to be with the audience, if she is the killer. I think either Green got loaded and staggered into Picadilly, or someone else he raped did it (I am pretty sure Anna would not have been the first he had sexually assaulted), or maybe, just maybe, Gillingham.

 

I heartily agree that TPTB did an egregious disservice to Anna by shifting the story away from the rape and its effect on her, and toward Bates, and makes it seem to many that the hideous attack was just a plot device. 

Edited July 25, 2014 by DeepRunner

[Mrsjumbo]

I would love it if it is revealed that Anna had a hand on Green's death. It would be in character- she would do anything to prevent Bates from doing something stupid & being hanged.

I watched a Downton special with Susan Sarandon & she mentioned the "suicide" of Vera. Not murder. Too bad I deleted it already.

[ZulaMay]

LOL helena, I thought you wanted Edith to give her family the smackdown and tell them to shove it?  Not that shoving it would be an option, since they all have sticks up their asses already.

 

I agree Edith has sowed some dangerous seeds here, but I understand her actions. She was postpartum hormonal; her maternal instincts were in large part biological and overrode her judgment.  I'm sure she wants her daughter to be happy and well-loved (she has certainly placed her with a good family).  As for being selfish?  Yes, she is to some degree.  But with all the hard knocks she has had, I think she has a right to consider her own happiness too.

 

I don't see it as "having her cake and eating it too" so much as finding a solution that works for both of them.  Whether it will work is a different matter.  She does love her child; but she was thinking with her heart and not necessarily her head.

 

But as Violet said, there is more than one kind of good mother.  Mary will be far more pragmatic, but Edith is more naturally maternal and emotionally involved.

 

Personally, if and when it does blow up in her face, I hope she acknowledges her mistake but doesn't allow them to shame and demean her.  They've made their own mistakes (worse ones in Robert's case) and been forgiven and supported.  She deserves the same.

[helenamonster]

My feelings about Edith are complicated, because she's one of my favorite characters but I also really disagree with the decisions she's been making lately. I believe she loves her child and thinks that what she's doing is best for her, but she's not taking into consideration the other people who are involved here. I know we never saw the Schroeders, but they were promised a baby and then had her taken away from them. When the secret comes all the way out, the same thing will happen to the Drewes. Children cannot just be passed around to different families willy-nilly. They need stability, familiarity, and a sense of security. I get that Edith is in a horrendous situation, but she is not doing what's best for her daughter right now. She should have stood up to her aunt and grandmother in the first place and just given the baby to the Drewes from the get-go. I can't blame her for thinking about herself (no one else does) but now there is an innocent child involved and that child's well-being should take precedent over Edith's.

 

When the secret does come out, and Robert, Cora, and Mary inevitably go off on Edith, I want her to stand up for herself and tell them to go kick rocks. Because they aren't going to criticize her for her choices post-birth, they're going to criticize her for getting herself into this situation in the first place and bringing shame upon the family. I couldn't care less if Edith did something to disgrace her family because her family has been awful to her. And I want Edith to tell Robert and Cora that they've been shitty parents and tell Mary she's been a shit sister and that she shouldn't have to care about their reputations because they could rarely be arsed to care about anything to do with her. That is the big moment, the win, that Edith so deserves. I will have no problem if that moment comes. Tbh, I'll be ecstatic. My issues with Edith lie in her current decision-making and the emotional damage she's set in motion. I understand if this isn't clear, but idk how to explain it any better.

 

As for Anna, I suppose it would be OOC for her to intentionally kill Green. Maybe he tried to grab her in the street and in the process of getting away from him he fell into the path of the BoJ. Idk, I just feel like she needs to have some element of control in this entire situation, and Green's death is the last opportunity.

[AZChristian]

Forgive me if this subject has been mentioned before (I'm still kinda new here and haven't read every word on every thread . . . yet!).

 

Edith:  Red hair, resembles neither parent, is treated obviously differently from "sisters."

 

Aunt Rosamund:  Red hair, seems more emotionally attached to Edith than her "parents" do, strange look on her face when Edith said to her, "You can't understand how I feel; you've never had a child." 

 

Is there a secret being hidden here?

[DeepRunner]

This is the VERY LAST thing I will say on Green's death (for at least 5 minutes. ;-) )....

 

The only way I can see Anna doing it, is if she did it and was worried that Bates, who went to "York" but quite likely to London, saw her in the area. That would be one way (and maybe the only way) to explain the nervousness she had when questioning Bates about his business in "York". But I just can't see "everyone's favorite character" doing it, or even being part of it. She might have entertained the idea, but...

[oceanblue]

It's entirely possible that Aunt Rosamund is Edith's bio parent, and has been speculated on here.  But it's really soapy.

[DeepRunner]

 

It's entirely possible that Aunt Rosamund is Edith's bio parent, and has been speculated on here.  But it's really soapy.

 

Is the red hair the red herring? Although they dropped some pretty loud hints about the possibility, I am having doubts now about Rosamund being Edith's mother. if she were, it would help explain why Edith was treated differently from Mary and Sybil in S1 and S2 as a "Crawley sibling," although it might retcon the exchange that Robert and Cora had in S1 about the "ghastly prospect" of Edith caring for them in their old age.

 

Of course, if it were true, and Mary the b****-goddess were to find out, that would make for some very interesting dynamics.

[helenamonster]

Edith being Rosamund's daughter has been pretty widely speculated (at least on this board and its late lamented predecessor) since at least the Season 4 CS, maybe even earlier. It wouldn't even be that egregious of a retcon...we didn't see Cora give birth to Edith (or any of the girls, but Mary and Sybil definitely have/had Levinson blood) and really only have the show's word that she's a "legitimate" Crawley sister. The hints the show may or may not have given us ("You don't understand, you're not a mother," that scene after Edith slept with Gregson where she and Rosamund were wearing the exact the same shades of blue and orange) are harmless enough that they could lead to something or nothing. In the real world, looking more like an aunt or uncle than a parent isn't out of the ordinary (it freaks my dad out sometimes how much I look like one of his sisters, and I know for a fact she's not my mother), but in fictional TV land it could be a huge clue.

 

My only question would be, if this speculation did pan out, whether or not the show had planned this from the get-go. If I'm remembering correctly, the first time we saw Rosamund was in the Season 1 finale, and she was wrapped up in Mary's story (convincing her not to accept Matthew's proposal until after Cora's baby was born). I don't really think she and Edith had very much to do with each other until Season 4 (someone please correct me if I'm remembering wrong). So if it does end up happening, I don't think it was necessarily always meant to be canon, which would be a little irritating, but whatever. We'll see. While I'm kind of expecting it to happen, I won't be disappointed if it doesn't. Some of the best scenes from Season 4 were the ones between Edith and Rosamund (the one at the abortion "clinic" is a stand-out) and I just want more of those in Season 5. Whether she gave birth to her or not, Rosamund has been a better mother to Edith over the course of one season than Cora has been for Edith's entire life.

 

Sorry to keep harping on about Bates/Anna/Green. I promise I'm done (for now, until I cook up a new ridiculous theory). But since Anna is my favorite character, her story is the one I'm most interested in. I wish it had all been resolved at the end of Season 4. The wait better be worth it.

[ZulaMay]

Laura Carmichael or someone else said at the TCA panel that Edith isn't Rosamund's daughter.  So that intriguing possibility is off the table.  Pity.

 

helena, I get what you mean about Edith.  Your points are valid.  Me, I give her a pass because the fact is she has tried to do the right thing and been screwed by life and her family.  Now she's taking her happiness into consideration, and into her own hands, her family be damned.  That should be her MO from this point forward: not to be entirely selfish (she would never do that), but to look out for #1 and her child, and do it her own way.  

 

I think Rosamund has been a champ and a pillar of strength and compassion and patience. For someone who is not a mother, she is ten times the mother Cora is.  But Violet?  Meh, we've heard her demean Edith often and she chased Anthony away.  So she doesn't get a pass for taking the baby thing in stride this time.  She mostly did it to protect the family name anyway.  Violet just sent her off and then awkwardly mentioned the baby as "it," trying to be understanding but struggling to show convincing empathy.

 

Now if Edith were going to keep her kid in a hovel while she turned tricks (see: Ethel), it would be different.  But luckily she did have other options.  Mr. Drewe is clearly a kind and reliable family man.  As for the Schroeders?  Edith may believe that they are nice people and will be good parents, but she can't know for sure that her daughter is really happy without having her close by.  I think she had a strong maternal instinct to be able to watch over her, which is one sign of a good mother.

 

I wish she had been firm with her aunt and grandmother from the start.  That was her failing.  But personally, I am glad she stood up for herself, even if it came later than it should.  And I really don't think the baby will suffer in the long run from one change of environment and caregiver.  So long as she being passed from one set of loving hands to another, she'll be OK.   Someone is going to suffer from the loss of the baby, and I'd rather it be the Schroeders than her.   She's her mother.  She made a mistake, but she's allowed a mistake.  

 

As a point of comparison, I don't think the baby will suffer more from this change than George did from his mother's rejection of him in the first six months of his life.  They didn't bond, and even after that she didn't exactly spend a lot of time with him.  Mary had a valid excuse:  her grief over Matthew.  Edith's excuses are just as valid:  excessive pressure from a judgmental society and her family to give up her child, followed by a period of intense bonding before the child was taken from her.  She could not have known in advance how that would feel, or how much she'd regret it.  Neither can either Violet or Rosamund, or the rest of her family, or me for that matter.

 

Sorry for the essay, LOL.  We'll agree to disagree on the decision she made.  What's done is done.  Now on to how the family will react and how Edith will handle them.

 

Like you I hope Edith gives her family the smack down.  But I am afraid she won't.   We will be asked/told to just be glad they eventually forgive her and leave it at that.  The writer will ignore the fact that everyone else has been almost instantly forgiven and embraced for their mistakes and wrongs, but I have not forgotten it.  They'll berate her and she'll absorb it, because it has been ingrained in her from the cradle that she is unworthy and does not merit the same forbearance, support and love her sister and father get.

 

I hope I will be proven wrong.  But I won't hold my breath.

Edited July 27, 2014 by ZulaMay

[DeepRunner]

Even though Laura Carmichael said that (and it's not like she could really come out and say, yes, Rosamund is Edith's mum), I don't know that we've heard the last of it.

 

The only person I really want to see Edith administer the beatdown to is Mary. "There's something about Mary"...that makes her a completely unsympathetic character. Scheming, bullying, snotty, self-righteous, insufferably smug...and cruel to Edith. I think Edith got what was coming to her at the end of S1 when Mary fixed her good re: Strallan, but Edith is the upstairs torture doll, and Mary has been happy to administer that treatment throughout the series.

[ZulaMay]

I'm with you, although I think her parents are ineffectual and dismissive of her too.  People often argue that Edith gives as good as she gets, but that hasn't been true since S1.  Mary got her vengeance and that should be the end of it.  For the past three seasons Mary's continued to be a petty, mean-spirited tyrant with her sister for no reason at all.  

 

And if anyone doubts this is how it is intended to come across, the actress and the script notes (AKA the writer) have confirmed it.  Mary's always been nasty just for the sake of it.  She takes pleasure in tormenting her sister. This is not so unusual in a child or even a teenager, but kids need to be socialized and develop enough empathy to grow out of it.  Mary hasn't, and at this point her behavior is clinically anti-social.  It's literally sadistic.

 

And she doesn't have the excuse of having been raised in a cave, or abused, or having some sort of inborn condition that makes it difficult for her to read social cues and adhere to standards of behavior.  She knows what she's doing is wrong, but she does it anyway and without remorse. 

 

As for Drewe, it was asked above if he would figure out the baby was Edith's.  He already knows.  It was pretty clear in the CS that he had figured it out, which is why he told her that he felt it should be "their secret."  He planned to write a letter to himself and say it was from an old family friend who was asking them to care for the orphaned baby.  He also claimed his wife "wouldn't question it," which seems a bit optimistic to me.  But maybe that's just how she is.

 

If he were not married I would not mind seeing a romance develop there, actually.  He's a very appealing man.  I remember after the CS aired, a few posters on a favorite (now shuttered) forum were quick to point out how attractive he is.  One of the first comments that appeared on the thread was something along the lines of "Before I found out he was married, I was wondering why Edith didn't just climb that farmer like a pole!"

 

But alas, he is married.  

 

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2928787200/nm0769084?ref_=nmmd_md_nxt

 

That's my favorite pic of Andrew Scarborough, AKA Mr. Drewe.  

Edited July 28, 2014 by ZulaMay

[Cameltoes]

I'm not necessarily in favor of Edith/Mr. Drewe but his wife could easily be killed off if they wanted to go there.

[David T. Cole]

This is a good thread for US viewers to talk about S5 before it airs stateside. No spoilers!

[Camera One]

Where would speculating about the rest of Season 5 after watching the first episode of Season 5 go?  I wanted to make a few guesses after the season premiere last night, but I don't read spoilers.

[photo fox]

Where would speculating about the rest of Season 5 after watching the first episode of Season 5 go? I wanted to make a few guesses after the season premiere last night, but I don't read spoilers.

Sorry for my delayed response - I've been away from "the office" for a few days.

I'd say the best place for that is the previous episode's thread. Just start with something like, "I'm not spoiled, but judging by this episode alone, here's what I think will happen."

[photo fox]

UPDATE!!!!

 

I've conferred with Management and the other mods, and we're dividing the spec topics into US and UK versions.

This topic shall be for US and other "waiting" viewers going forward.  The speculation should be based on NO spoilers (promos, articles, leaked photos).  If you have already seen episodes in the UK, speculation about the rest of the season should go in the Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers (UK) topic that I am about to start.

Once episodes begin airing in the US, this topic will turn into a "speculate about the rest of the season" topic.

PM me with any questions.

[Constantinople]

Six days until Season 5 starts in the US.

 

I've kept myself free of spoilers.  For all I know, everyone was killed in a freak gardening accident in the season finale.

 

I also don't have any particular speculation, such as finding out that Mary arranged a hit on Matthew (though I wouldn't object if that turned out to be the case).

 

Instead, I'll just guess that, if past seasons are anything to go by, some of the story lines will seem a bit familiar since JF is more dedicated to recycling than any environmentalist.

[helenamonster]

I've managed to avoid spoilers too, I'm so proud of myself.

 

Yeah, none of my predictions have really changed much. I've been going back to watch S4 just to remind myself of plotlines and see if there are any hints to anything, and the only thing I picked up on was something that made me more convinced than ever that Bates didn't kill Green. In the first (or is it second? they all run together sometimes) episode of the season, Edith goes up to London to see Michael and this is when we first learn that he's considering moving to another country that allows lunacy as a grounds for divorce. Michael meets her at the train station and the show made what I consider a very deliberate point to show Edith handing her ticket to the conductor on her way to Michael. They could have shot the scene differently and not included that detail, but they did. If Bates had really taken the train to London that day, there wouldn't have been a ticket for Mrs. Hughes to find. My guess is he seriously thought about it, but then reconsidered and never got rid of the ticket. If anything, that could have proved his innocence, not his guilt. Mary may have fucked up by burning it.

[Hanahope]

Spoiler free here too.

 

That's a real interesting point about the train ticket.  I just watched the last S4 episode last night, and you could be right, since there were two instances where Bates complained about not getting to go through the pockets of his overcoat and maybe he did want to toss the ticket he never used.  I kept thinking, why would he keep what I presumed was a receipt ticket, if he wanted to hide his trip?  But if he merely thought about it, bought the ticket, but then decided not to go, I'm not sure why he'd keep the ticket then as well.  That said, I'd like to hope that since we already had the "Bates on trial/in jail for something" plot line, we won't have it again.

 

I'm assuming they will continue with the Mary's suitors story line, although it seemed by the end of S4, she'd narrowed it down to two, Gillingham and Blake, and did seem to like Blake more.

 

Also expect we'll get Baxter's background and drama with Edith's daughter.  I do hope Grigson returns.  Edith needs some happiness in her life. 

 

I hope we don't see Sarah Bunting again.  I didn't like her character.  You can believe that the nobility aren't any better than you, and you're probably right, but that's still no reason to be rude and pushy.

[lottiedottie]

No spoilers, here either! It's a miracle because I'm the worst when it comes to finding stuff out. I just have to know. Looking forward to my Sunday night ritual.

 

No predictions, but I hope they reveal something about Baxter--after all that manipulating of her by Thomas it will be disappointing if nothing comes of it.

 

I'm with you, @hanahope. I hope Sarah Bunting doesn't have much to do with this show. Did not like her at all.