Season 3: Prisons, Governors, and Phone Calls from Zombie Heaven

[Timetoread]

Great minds!  I too am re-watching S3.  And yes, I will burn in the same hell for those who cheered the death of Andrea.  Hell, I was rooting for the Governor when he was hunting her down in that one episode.  I didn't like Andrea but there were three moments that earned her a hearty "YOU GO GIRL!" from me.  1)  Riding Shane like the stallion he was. J. Bernthal, call me, man.  2.) When she told off Lori about being a snotty, hypocritical, selfish, self-centered, beyotch who's pitting two good men against each other because it suits her ego. 3.)  When she ran and ran and ran from the farm - awesome scene!  But the way she treated Michonne, and the ego trip she got over being a supposed "First Lady" when in reality she was his booty du jour was too much to bear.  I was so glad she got chomped.  Zombie Milton, you ROCK!

 

Now for Lori.  When all is said and done, I do hate Lori still.  Not for her "affair".  It wasn't an affair - it was two adults who found comfort in each other - they both loved and mourned Rick for real.  Not even for her horrible mothering skills.  She wasn't alone - Rick sucked too until Herschel started him on Daddying 101 last season.  Ironically the two best parents Carl has had have been Shane and Michonne.  The only two who took the time to comfort and listen to him and protect him and KNOW where Carl is.  My hate for Lori was for the mindfrack she played on Rick and Shane and that she pitted them against each other, both believing that they were defending her from the other.  I am the only one in the world, apparently, but I really liked Shane.  I didn't find him crazy or mean or particularly homicidal - to me he was a guy who had the rug pulled out from under him and absolutely had no recourse.  That said, I felt that Lori could have mitigated the situation so that hurt feelings didn't turn to murder.  Instead she stopped Shane from leaving (which would have been the best thing for him to do), then she tells him that he has no claim to the baby inside her, even though the baby is probably his.  Then she Lady MacBeth's Rick and then chides him for doing what she told him to do in the first place.  Honestly, without her machinations, Rick and Shane might have had a fist fight, had a good cry and ended up best friends again, Father and Godfather to both children.  But Lori looked out only for herself and ruined EVERYBODY.

 

BTW - I have yet another read on her pulling away from Rick.  I read it as the realization in that moment that her feelings for Shane were deeper than she ever acknowledged.  It's one thing to say that he has to go, it's another thing entirely for him to actually be gone.  Rick was her husband, but Shane was her man and the end result was a loss to all involved.  I do, however, feel she understood in the end her culpability and was trying to be as supportive of Rick as she could.  However, and I thought of this watching it yesterday, I think what she REALLY wanted to talk to Rick about, was the real possibility that she would not survive this childbirth and that she would need to be put down before turning and that Rick would be left to raise a baby that very well may not be his.  I agree, it was a conversation that needed to be had.  Too bad she died.  And I really mean that too - her death was brutal and hate her, though I did, I cried all the way through it.  

[ghoulina]

Last night I finished season 3 with "This Sorrowful Life" and "Welcome to the Tombs". I skipped "Arrow on the Doorpost" and "Prey" because they bore me to tears, thank you very much. 

 

This Sorrowful life contains one of my absolute favorite scenes of this season - the one where Merle tells Carol she must be a late bloomer and she replies, "Maybe you are too". Carol wasn't a huge fan of Merle. She thought he brought Daryl down. So for her to have even a little bit of hope for him was HUGE. And I think that comment really stuck with him and was pivotal in his decision to let Michonne go and attempt to take out some of Woodbury for Camp Prison. He realized it wasn't too late for him to try and do something good with his life. And Michael Rooker - what a fabulous actor. He took me from absolutely despising his character and HOPING he would die, to loving him in the end and sobbing when his sad, walker eyes looked up at his brother. Merle went out with meaning, his actions were fully selfless, he KNEW why he was doing what he was doing. He had finally bloomed. 

 

It was in this episode and the finale that my love for Michonne was solidified. I started out being annoyed as hell by her. She was right - about the Governor and Woodbury and everything. But all she freaking did was snarl and glower and I couldn't stand her. In "Clear" I finally began to change my mind about her, seeing how she was with Carl. But in the final moments of This Sorrowful Life, when Rick sees her walking across the field, and then later in her conversation with him ("You had to try"), she won me over. She understood and she forgave, it was just that simple. This was her home now and these were her people. "You could have just taken the formula" - GAH!

 

The first time I saw "Welcome to the Tombs" I felt incredibly let down. I found it to be one heck of an underwhelming finale. I was expecting more - a really big blow out between prison and Woodbury. Serious losses. To have the battle never really happen and it all be over halfway through left me all, "that's it???" But now when I watch it, I find it to be such a beautiful ending to this chapter of their journey. Everything was all tied up so nicely. I hate Andrea and her death didn't make me sad (in fact, it annoyed me when she kept saying "I didn't want anyone to die" - how'd that work out for ya!??). But I did love when she asked Rick if Carl and the baby and "the rest of them" were okay and he says, "US. The rest of us". It just reminds you the kind of person Rick is. 

 

But the best part of the episode is when the Woodburians show up at the prison and Rick looks up to the catwalk, and Ghost Lori is no longer there. He had finally let down his guard, learned to trust and let people in, started building a real community. His demons were gone. And then we get the beautiful shot of the sun rising over the field and the image of Lori's gravemarker on the screen, one final goodbye. I realize now just what a perfect ending it was. 

[kikismom]

This Sorrowful Life is one of the best episodes ever.

Sometimes, when you have those people that haven't seen TWD, you know that if they watched it they'd say oh crap I had no idea, I really love this but it's the getting them to sit for one episode that is the hard part. I put on "Clear" or "This Sorrowful Life" or "Nebraska" or "Beside The Dying Fire". It doesn't matter if it's out of context for a newb; it hooks them and they want to go to the beginning and get the whole story.

[ghoulina]

Those are definitely some good ones. From season 4 I love Internment, The Grove, and A. 

 

But really, the pilot is amazing. If I had to pick top 5 episodes, it would be in there. I was hooked from the get go. The back-and-forth between Morgan trying to shoot his wife and Rick heading back to put Bicycle Girl down - so beautiful. But that's season one, so I'll stop there!

[AngelaHunter]

And Michael Rooker - what a fabulous actor. He took me from absolutely despising his character and HOPING he would die, to loving him in the end and sobbing when his sad, walker eyes looked up at his brother.

 

I found Merle to be the most complex and intriguing character on this show as time went on and I really do wish we'd seen more of him.

[mandolin]

There aren't threads for each episode in season 3, so I thought I'd put this here. I just stumbled across it today. I found it really interesting.

http://www.bearmccreary.com/#blog/blog/the-walking-dead/the-walking-dead-welcome-to-the-tombs/

 

Bear McCreary's thoughts behind his music for Welcome to the Tombs. There are quite a few more entries to read as well.

[RedheadZombie]

Quote from the Shane thread:

 

Speaking of which, one thing I never bought is that the Governor was some nice kind Joe Schmo before the ZA and that losing Penny made him a monster.  Sociopaths are born not made.  We have NO confirmation at all that he was nice before things went down.  Grief doesn't make you a new person.  EVERYBODY in the ZA lost someone close to them and many lost children, but they don't kill humans and keep heads in tanks and sexually assault random strangers and feed people to walkers.

 

 

Actually, it's believed that psychopaths are born, and sociopaths are made.  Psychopaths have an almost miss-wiring in their brain which prevents empathy.  Sociopaths are capable of empathy and love, to a degree.  I guess it depends on whether you actually believe the governor loved Penny and his wife - I think he did, so I believe he became a sociopath.  In the opening of the first governor-centric episode, I initially thought we were seeing him before he created Woodbury, and I was fascinated.  I think they missed the boat there.

[ghoulina]

I agree. I would have loved to see a short snippet of how the Guv was before his daughter was bitten. 

[AngelaHunter]

Speaking of which, one thing I never bought is that the Governor was some nice kind Joe Schmo before the ZA and that losing Penny made him a monster.

 

I don't think losing Penny made him a monster. I think losing her (and the way he lost her) just stamped out his last shred of humanity - basically the last hope and last hold he had with his life pre-ZA.

 

He probably was just a regular guy before, doing his best to earn a living, maybe hating his job but caring about his family. Maybe not the nicest guy in the world, but not a sadistic murderer.

 

Look at some of the most notorious Nazis, infamous for their brutality and mass murders.  Before the WWII apocalypse many of them were also just regular guys, who probably would have continued to live uneventful and unremarkable lives had not the war come along, elevating them to positions where they could choose who lived and who died. It's always been true that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[LilySilver]

I think the Governor could have been an interesting character and Woodbury could have been an interesting place--though this show can't really be about people who actually think through the best ways to fortify a town, start raising food for themselves, create rule of law etc, ha.  Okay I'd totally watch that show, but that's me.

 

Somehow, the gradual slide or the sudden break the governor underwent in order to become the cartoon character that he was, was entirely left to our imaginations. (Well, almost--aside from Penny in the Closet.)  The degree to which his followers had to have known something was not quite squeaky clean was largely ignored too, except his also-cartoonlike inner circle henchmen.

 

You can see that if you really did want to build a community like Woodbury (and wasn't it lovely?! I would totally have stayed there if I was Andrea too. Not for the peen, just for the hot showers and clean clothes.), you'd have to gather a LOT of resources, putting your people at risk while doing so.  (Blocking streets with large vehicles was an obvious and awesome method. Digging trenches with heavy equipment, having guards posted, all necessary and effective.)  You'd have to maintain a tight grip on who was allowed in and how they behaved. Democracy (as Rick found) would be unwieldy to the point of being dangerous.  You'd encounter those who just wanted to take what you have, and you'd have to draw the line somewhere just as we've seen Rick do, in defending  yourself and proactively removing threats.  

 

What created the difference between the sociopathic monster the Governor became and the monster Rick is able to rather effectively integrate into his leadership abilities in later seasons?    

 

And I can't help but realize that the Governor provided a better quality of life for his people, who didn't know the horrible things that had been done in order to maintain that lifestyle.  There's no way any leader, including Rick, could have provided that level of safety and comfort without doing at least some really questionable stuff in the ZA.  And for me that would have been a more interesting idea to explore than the moustache twirling, zombie-aquarium watching, zombie-daughter-hair-combing, wife-dopelganger-boinking caricature  that the governor was.  Oh, how I hated devoting so much time to him, in such a silly and superficial storyline.

 

But then if we had seen his internal struggles and how hard it was for him to maintain his humanity, it would just be exactly like what we get with Rick.  And the governor was supposed to have been an interesting foil for Rick's struggle, I get that.  But I'd still watch the other show.

 

Edited because something weird is going on every time I post...

Edited October 22, 2014 by LilySilver

[ghoulina]

And I can't help but realize that the Governor provided a better quality of life for his people, who didn't know the horrible things that had been done in order to maintain that lifestyle.  There's no way any leader, including Rick, could have provided that level of safety and comfort without doing at least some really questionable stuff in the ZA.  And for me that would have been a more interesting idea to explore than the moustache twirling, zombie-aquarium watching, zombie-daughter-hair-combing, wife-dopelganger-boinking caricature  that the governor was

 

Agreed. For the most part, the Governor was actually really good to the citizens of Woodbury. But there was a cost to that security. I think he was trying to hold onto control and a previous way of life, because he couldn't cope with what losing his daughter truly meant - hence Milton and all his experiments, testing whether you could still reach them once they turned. It wasn't okay that the Guv killed people, like those National Guard men, to better provide for his town....but I could see how someone could travel down that slippery path whilst trying to provide. 

[JBody]

Yeah. I always thought he was living for a cure for Penny, dubious as that may seem to us watching at home. I thought he built Woodbury for her. When Michonne put an end to that dream he snapped. S3 had amazing moments but a lot of missed opportunities too.

[kikismom]

I guess I'm killing the mood but one of my best-loved scenes opens with light classical music playing softly and Phillip gently brushing his daughter's hair and a big chunk of the top of her head rips off. That's f#$%ing hilarious.

I'm a bad person.

[LilySilver]

I guess I'm killing the mood but one of my best-loved scenes opens with light classical music playing softly and Phillip gently brushing his daughter's hair and a big chunk of the top of her head rips off. That's f#$%ing hilarious.

I'm a bad person.

Ah yes, a subtle yet complex metaphor for the breakdown of society, so deftly crafted by our writers!

 

Definitely one of the all time best Gubnah moments in my book as well. Sick sick sick.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

Somehow, the gradual slide or the sudden break the governor underwent in order to become the cartoon character that he was, was entirely left to our imaginations. (Well, almost--aside from Penny in the Closet.)  The degree to which his followers had to have known something was not quite squeaky clean was largely ignored too

I found nothing gradual about it. The problem I had with this character and storyline is that the writers never heard of the words "Subtlety" or "Suspense". Nearly immediately, we're shown the heads in aquariums - including that of the innocent helicopter pilot -  and are beaten over our own heads that the Governor is evil - really really evil, more evil than all the evil we've ever seen.

 

It would have been so much better had we just been given little, jarring hints here and there that all is not as idyllic as it seems in Woodbury. That path would also not have made Andrea, who I liked as time went on, look like such a complete fool. 

 

But - I did put myself in Andrea's place as the scowling, morose MIchonne is accusing her of ditching a friend in favour of a "warm bed" and thought, let's see...I can run off with Michonne and spend cold days and nights huddled with her on the hard ground, eating twigs and bugs and getting eaten by bugs and fearing being eaten alive by walkers, OR - I can stay here, where there is food, light, warmth, hot water and picnics with lemonade!! and a sexy, clean man in my soft, clean bed every night. Let me think about it, 'kay Michonne? I'll get back to you.

 

But that's just me.

[ghoulina]

See, I kept waiting for there to be more the Governor. I agree - they hit us over the head and revealed all too early. I kept expecting something else....like maybe he was secretly brainwashing the town, doing horrible things to his own people, etc. There are definitely a lot of different ways they could have gone with him that would not have ended up so boring and irritating.

[lulee]

Just watched "Seed" - why the hell did Andrew have to encounter slow, disorganized, clumsy walkers instead of the savage ones that would tear him apart?

[ParadoxLost]

I was watching the marathon.  Did they ever give an explanation of where the helicopter(s), that led the herd to the farm and crashed leading to Andrea/Michonne meeting up with the Governor and Merle, came from.

Edited January 1, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[lulee]

I was watching the marathon.  Did they ever give an explanation of where the helicopter(s), that led the herd to the farm and crashed leading to Andrea/Michonne meeting up with the Governor and Merle, came from.

No, not that I caught.

 

On a totally unrelated note: I was reminded on rewatch that although Tyrese and Karen may not have dated long, they would have known each other for quite a while - during his time in Woodbury and then all the months - from when they and other Woodburyians moved into the prison - until her death.

[CarpeDiem54]

I was watching the marathon.  Did they ever give an explanation of where the helicopter(s), that led the herd to the farm and crashed leading to Andrea/Michonne meeting up with the Governor and Merle, came from.

They never said/showed anything about the helicopter in Atlanta. I always assumed the crashed helicopter (and the soldiers who were later slaughtered by Old Patchy) were escapees from Ft. Benning.

[Irishmaple]

I haven't caught very much of the current marathon but I was killing time before leaving to catch an early showing of The Hobbit and ended up on AMC not long after Clear began.  That episode, along with the pilot, are my two favourite episodes of the whole show to date.  I love Clear and watching it now that a couple of seasons have followed it, I'm reminded of how much I loved Morgan.  His grief at losing Dwayne, his self-loathing at failing to kill his wife, his bond with Rick "you gave me the gun", the walkie-talkie "you weren't there", all of it delivered with layers of meaning, thanks to Lennie James.  I'm so glad he's back on the show.  Lines spoken by Rick in the episode also have resonance this far down the line.  I especially love his words to Morgan about recovering from loss, despair and insanity.  I don't recall the exact quote but it was along the lines of 'you'll come back from this; you have to."  Which describes Rick so well.  He comes back because he has to; he sees no alternative.  No matter how far he goes - going vampire on Joe, driving down the Grady cop - Rick comes back.  The growing bond between Rick and Michonne and Carl was also visible.  Michonne refusing to put up with Carl's crap and calling him on it, while still respecting his mission was a great step in Carl's development, as was his respect for Michonne, culminating in him vouching for her before they left the town.  Rick not denying that he hallucinates, while Michonne shares that she talked to her dead fiancé, ending with Rick handing her the keys to the car is responsible for the fact I have never shipped a fictional couple harder than I do those two.  And, while I know it was divisive, I still love the sheer, grim pragmatism of reversing to pick up the orange backpack.

 

The episode that followed, the negotiation between Rick and The Governor struck me as stronger now.  I wasn't able to watch the whole episode, but I really liked Andrea.  She got the two leaders together, she broke up the dick-measuring contest between Daryl and Martinez, she took out a Walker with a knife.  If only I could forget how she was before and after that episode...  How could the writers and showrunners ruin a character who could have been so pivotal?  The episode also made me hate Philip even more.  The truce that Rick and Andrea proposed could have worked and the two communities could have been strengthened.  Time might have eased the hatreds and maybe a relationship between the two strongholds could grow.  People needn't have died by the dozens.

 

Finally Herschel.  I forgot how badass he could be.  His time with Milton made me smile, refusing to show his stump on the first date.  Herschel should have been a treasure to both communities.  He knew how to farm, he had medical training and he could handle himself when pushed.  Instead Philip treated him like he was disposable, like people as valuable as Herschel came along every day.  Gods, I hate Philip!

[kikismom]

I was just thinking last night that after seeing Self Help and Slabtown and Coda, the Governor arc--including Arrow On The Doorpost--is starting to look a whole lot better.

Edited January 1, 2015 by kikismom

[ParadoxLost]

I wasn't able to watch the whole episode, but I really liked Andrea.  She got the two leaders together, she broke up the dick-measuring contest between Daryl and Martinez, she took out a Walker with a knife.  If only I could forget how she was before and after that episode...  How could the writers and showrunners ruin a character who could have been so pivotal? 

 

I'm still of the opinion that the show is scared of killing off leads who have been on the show since season 1 so they characterize to minimize backlash while proclaiming that no one is ever safe.

 

Watching in marathon format did point something out to me around season 2/3.  It was one of the only times that they did a jump in show timeline to advance Lori's pregnancy and get to that part of the plot.  I think Andrea suffered for it.  I don't think I adjusted my thinking to reflect a passage a real time {months} vs. a period of days or weeks over hiatus.  It never once connected that Andrea had developed a eight month friendship with Michonne.  That Andrea had probably been away from Rick and group longer than or at least as long as she had known them.  That there was a span of months that stuff happened that could make Andrea weary enough to be willfully ignorant to the Governor.

 

I was all indignant that Andrea betrayed the farm group, but I think a lot of that came from her time with the group being a lot closer in time in my mind than in show.  And all her reasons for it happened offscreen and I still don't get what they were.

[Pete Martell]

I was just thinking last night that after seeing Self Help and Slabtown and Coda, the Governor arc--including Arrow On The Doorpost--is starting to look a whole lot better.

 

For me there was no arc to begin with. Having him gun down his army at the end of the season felt like a "we don't know what we're doing, none of this makes any sense...do-over!" I don't think anything can ever make me have any more use for that material, because it wasn't even material. It was poor David Morrissey glowering with one eye for half a season.

I'm still of the opinion that the show is scared of killing off leads who have been on the show since season 1 so they characterize to minimize backlash while proclaiming that no one is ever safe.

 

I think the show is probably willing to kill off anyone but Daryl and then maybe Rick and Carl. I don't think they intended to kill off so many season 1 people this quickly (it was backstage stuff with Dale and Andrea, apparently), but I think they do see most of the cast as ultimately disposable. They just seem to be more cautious now because they went so overboard in season 3. 

[Iguessnot]

Season two ended with Carl crying in Lori's arms. Yet season 3 episode 2, Lori says that Carl hates her. What happened besides Carl being a moody brat?

Edited January 3, 2015 by Iguessnot

[Nashville]

Season two ended with Carl crying in Lori's arms. Yet season 3 episode 2, Lori says that Carl hates her. What happened besides Carl being a moody brat?

 

He's a teen.  All other explanations are superfluous.

[kikismom]

Season two ended with Carl crying in Lori's arms. Yet season 3 episode 2, Lori says that Carl hates her. What happened besides Carl being a moody brat?

I remember when Lori is sitting on the cell cot when they first get in the prison, and she's telling Herschel that her son hates her...but she also says that Rick doesn't even speak to her or something because of the baby/Shane and Herschel says We've all been living with the weight of that all winter.

So all those 7 or 8 months living in storage units etc. must have got pretty tense and I would guess Carl got the message during that off-screen time that Lori was The Cause Of It All Going To Hell.

And yeah he's a teenager.

[RedheadZombie]

I found nothing gradual about it. The problem I had with this character and storyline is that the writers never heard of the words "Subtlety" or "Suspense". Nearly immediately, we're shown the heads in aquariums - including that of the innocent helicopter pilot -  and are beaten over our own heads that the Governor is evil - really really evil, more evil than all the evil we've ever seen.

 

It would have been so much better had we just been given little, jarring hints here and there that all is not as idyllic as it seems in Woodbury. That path would also not have made Andrea, who I liked as time went on, look like such a complete fool. 

 

But - I did put myself in Andrea's place as the scowling, morose MIchonne is accusing her of ditching a friend in favour of a "warm bed" and thought, let's see...I can run off with Michonne and spend cold days and nights huddled with her on the hard ground, eating twigs and bugs and getting eaten by bugs and fearing being eaten alive by walkers, OR - I can stay here, where there is food, light, warmth, hot water and picnics with lemonade!! and a sexy, clean man in my soft, clean bed every night. Let me think about it, 'kay Michonne? I'll get back to you.

 

But that's just me.

 

Beyond the show's apparent inability to slowly create suspense, I find that some readers of the comics accidentally (or even deliberately) spoil characters.  For instance, Michonne appeared for five seconds in the season two finale, and posters lost their minds.  Even though on TWOP they weren't allowed to say her name (stupid rules!), I got the point that this was going to be a phenomenal character.  There are also spoiled viewers who pick up on clues that are almost undetectable by someone not spoiled - for instance, who killed Joffrey on GoT - who go online and brag at how clever they are.  I imagine that it would be almost impossible for comic readers to pretend neutrality on the Governor at first, but I believe it can taint non-comic opinions.  One small example, I initially didn't know how I felt about Abraham.  But a poster made what was probably an innocuous comment about trusting the character, since he knows comic-Abraham, which told me he would turn out to be one of the good guys.  Most of it's innocent, but it's easy to pick up on and be swayed one way or another.

[CarpeDiem54]

I remember when Lori is sitting on the cell cot when they first get in the prison, and she's telling Herschel that her son hates her...but she also says that Rick doesn't even speak to her or something because of the baby/Shane and Herschel says We've all been living with the weight of that all winter.

So all those 7 or 8 months living in storage units etc. must have got pretty tense and I would guess Carl got the message during that off-screen time that Lori was The Cause Of It All Going To Hell.

And yeah he's a teenager.

Yeah, I got the impression Coral realized Lori was The Douchebag from Hell, was siding with his Dad and he's a teenager.

[Jamoche]

Posted this as a reply in the book thread (not that I've read it, but I'm not a spoilerphobe) but it's more relevant here:

 

So I'm new to the show, catching up via the marathon. 3AM the Governor will leave them alone if they hand over Michonne, and I'm falling asleep. Jump to 11AM, the Governor will *still* leave them alone if they hand over Michonne. Okay, then - did I really miss anything there?

[kikismom]

 

So I'm new to the show, catching up via the marathon. 3AM the Governor will leave them alone if they hand over Michonne, and I'm falling asleep. Jump to 11AM, the Governor will *still* leave them alone if they hand over Michonne. Okay, then - did I really miss anything there?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_Yib28IDo0ieMuIboTOSwD_Ef997djgBrbkn-sTwMzINWt3Rx8g

[lulee]

Posted this as a reply in the book thread (not that I've read it, but I'm not a spoilerphobe) but it's more relevant here:

 

So I'm new to the show, catching up via the marathon. 3AM the Governor will leave them alone if they hand over Michonne, and I'm falling asleep. Jump to 11AM, the Governor will *still* leave them alone if they hand over Michonne. Okay, then - did I really miss anything there?

For a more banal possible explanation: it wasn't a true *marathon*: the episodes didn't run all through the night and they rebroadcast some of the later evening episodes again in the morning. I don't think handing over Michonne was contemplated for more than 2 episodes.

[CletusMusashi]

And only by one person.

Merle knew perfectly well that the Governor would kill him on sight. He was only using Michonne as a tool to get close enough to kill The Governor first.

The only one who honestly bought into the idea that they could appease their way to safety by kissing Govern-ass was Rick Grimes.

[kikismom]

 

The only one who honestly bought into the idea that they could appease their way to safety by kissing Govern-ass was Rick Grimes.

Which was a gold-plated clutterbuck---who on earth would think it's possible to negotiate with a certifiable lunatic?

That's like herding cats or pushing a rope uphill.

The "each take one side of the river" plan would have probably appealed to a sane person but the number of times the Governor mentioned Rick's wife having another man's baby and Rick's best friend screwing his wife was a really strong hint that the guy didn't care about anything but one-upmanship---and that never includes compromise.

[Pete Martell]

Which is a great example of why I'll never miss the glorious writing of mid/late season 3. They obviously wanted the situation with Michonne's fate in the air (so we'd be more invested in her) and wanted Merle to be redeemed, and the idiot pills were popped as a result. I'm just glad they dropped the whole thing instead of having some earnest Darabont-esque conversations about how Rick had taken Michonne's choice, etc. because I just absolutely hated it. 

[Tippi Blevins]

Two most annoying parts - when Rick wouldn't let Carl eat the dog food. I get it, you have pride. But damn, if the kid's hungry and you don't have anything else, let him have it. I'd totally eat dog food if I had to in the ZA!

 

I hated that, too. Not just the fact that Rick wouldn't let him eat it, but the way he snatched it away from him. Rick feels humiliated that he hasn't been able to provide better, but now Carl feels humiliated, too. Thanks, Dad! Anyway, dog food is full of protein and vitamins, and would have given Carl a lustrous coat.

[ghoulina]

I so agree! Every. Time. we watch that scene I yell at Rick. (And I'm an ardent Rick defender.) I can tell you right now, if *I* were in the ZA (or any type of apocalypse), you can be damn sure I'm going to eat some dog food if I'm starving. And anyone who tries to stop me is going to walk away like Oned Eye Bri. 

[AngelaHunter]

If you think about what precipitated the whole Woodbury/CDB mess, wasn't it Glenn and Maggie, who just couldn't stop with the moony,  kissy-face shit for ten minutes, and let their ol' pal Merle get the jump on both of them in five minutes flat?

 

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for romance, but something about those two overly hormonal lovebirds just rubs me the wrong way.

[Nashville]

Yeah, I got the impression Coral realized Lori was The Douchebag from Hell, was siding with his Dad and he's a teenager.

  

At least Coral has a firm grip on reality.

No bunny-choking here.

The question of chickens, however, has yet to be resolved....

Anyway, dog food is full of protein and vitamins, and would have given Carl a lustrous coat.

Just had an image flash through my brain of Cousin Itt wearing The Hat - and it was good.

[Ocean Chick]

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for romance, but something about those two overly hormonal lovebirds just rubs me the wrong way.

 

 

They rubbed me the wrong way when they were too busy "coming" to help move the vehicles, even though they'd spent the night in the tower, according to Rick.  Love making is all fine and dandy, as long as it's on your own time, not the group's.  ;)

[kikismom]

If you think about what precipitated the whole Woodbury/CDB mess, wasn't it Glenn and Maggie, who just couldn't stop with the moony,  kissy-face shit for ten minutes, and let their ol' pal Merle get the jump on both of them in five minutes flat?

Yes, it was the same Glenn and Maggie who knew:

• how much trouble Randall and his gang were
• what it's like to be overrun by walkers
• just finished the whole winter running from walkers searching for a safe place not to starve to death in
• having to battle walkers to get into a prison
• then having to battle crazy Tomas and Andrew and....

 

...then discuss what to get on the run to town by yelling from outside a building to someone inside a building : "A BABY born IN A PRISON  needs toys and IT"S A STRAIGHT SHOT DOWN HIGHWAY ##  AM I GIVING INFO AND DIRECTIONS TO MY PARTNER WHO LIVES THERE ANYWAY AND DOESN"T NEED TO  BE TOLD GOD I HOPE SOMEONE LURKING NEARBY CAN HEAR ME..."

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

They rubbed me the wrong way when they were too busy "coming" to help move the vehicles

 

Ack! Yes. I hated that. For some reason (I don't know why since both are attractive), watching them go at it was distasteful to the point of making me sneer.

 

I liked each of them on his/her own, but together? I really can't stand them anymore.

 

ETA: I just thought about it and I think the reason I hate seeing them getting all intimate is that it seems..forced, or so fake, especially on Maggie's part. It's as though she merely tolerates Glenn as you might tolerate an exhuberant puppy licking your face. I see zero chemistry or heat between them and I think that's what is the turn off for me.

Edited January 6, 2015 by AngelaHunter

[CletusMusashi]

I loved them getting together. But as a solid relationship? Why wouldn't they suck? Everybody else does.

When in the history of this show has there ever been a positive and well-written relationship?

[Nashville]

When in the history of this show has there ever been a positive and well-written relationship?

Otis and Carl's - simple, direct and to the point.

[Pete Martell]

I loved them getting together. But as a solid relationship? Why wouldn't they suck? Everybody else does.

When in the history of this show has there ever been a positive and well-written relationship?

 

I liked Bob and Sasha, for the few episodes they were together. 

 

I also don't mind Glenn and Maggie. Someone has to be an idiot plot victim - someone always is. They didn't bother me most of the time in season 3. The only time they did was after Maggie was sexually assaulted, when the focus was on Glenn's anger and she mostly just had a few scenes sitting in a cell brooding. It felt like the show didn't know how to handle the topic.

Ack! Yes. I hated that. For some reason (I don't know why since both are attractive), watching them go at it was distasteful to the point of making me sneer.

 

It's never really that fun to watch people go at it. In hyper-stylized fantasy settings, it can be, I guess, but even then, I think the old days of showing a passionate kiss and a fadeout worked better than most recent stuff. The process of heavy making out and undressing and groping is awkward to watch (and for the actors to film). 

 

I like tender scenes more (I know a lot of people probably hated the picture-taking scene in the watchtower in early season 4, but I thought it was very sweet).

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

The only time they did was after Maggie was sexually assaulted, when the focus was on Glenn's anger

 

I really hated Glenn then. It was made ALL about him and his attempt to be a chest-beating macho man, outraged that anyone laid hands on HIS woman/property, but he seemed to be blaming her. Yep, I really hated him for that. Or maybe he was terrified that she was making comparisons. Maybe Maggie should have let them cut his hand off and give him something to really squawk about.

 

"Sorry about your hand Glenn, but aren't you happy nobody saw my breasties?"

Edited January 6, 2015 by AngelaHunter

[CletusMusashi]

The worst thing about it to me was how little Rick cared.

"The guy likes to sexually torment female captives? Hey, what a coincidence. I know just what to give him for his birthday. Then he'll be my BFF!"

[Pete Martell]

The worst thing about it to me was how little Rick cared.

"The guy likes to sexually torment female captives? Hey, what a coincidence. I know just what to give him for his birthday. Then he'll be my BFF!"

 

Rick was having a full-scale mental breakdown at that point. 

[AngelaHunter]

He didn't rape her, although he threatened to do so which wasn't enough to make Maggie give up the location of the prison. The gun pointed at Glenn's head did that. When you consider what he did to other people, making Maggie bare her breasts was mild, by Gov standards.

[RedheadZombie]

They rubbed me the wrong way when they were too busy "coming" to help move the vehicles, even though they'd spent the night in the tower, according to Rick.  Love making is all fine and dandy, as long as it's on your own time, not the group's.  ;)

 

That was to establish the stupid plot point that Carol was wearing the never before seen headscarf (to later prove that Carol was "dead").  It actually helped me.  I thought it was Maggie with the scarf until Glenn and Maggie popped up in the tower.   It was a stupid attempt to insert levity into a show that can turn relentlessly bleak.