Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Camera One]

The actors would probably just take it as part of the job if there are always the usual suspects milling around.   I would personally find it hella annoying though, and you'd have to smile like you enjoy it since they'll probably take a pic of you.

 

I found this interview with an amateur photographer in Detroit, who does it as a hobby.

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/the-superman-spy-we-get-the-inside-scoop-from-a-secret-100596829762.html

Edited July 16, 2015 by Camera One

[Serena]

They have to allow it because they can't restrict it. It's the same in the U.S. These scenes are being shot on public land or, if it's private, being shot within view of public land. Same reason why paps get away with taking photos of celebrities out to dinner or shopping or whatever. As long as it's public property, they have that right. If he sells autographs, I can understand him making some money that way. Autograph hounding has become a pretty lucrative job too in recent years. I just don't see a market for these types of set photos. There may be one website that would buy them, but they probably don't get paid much. And then you factor in the other set stalkers that are there on a regular basis and the photo pool becomes even more saturated.

 

Which brings me to something I've actually been thinking about lately for some other things as well. How do you make money if you're available to swing by the set whenever you want and take photos? I mean, are these people students or have no jobs or what? And at some point, do the actors think you're creepy and then do you realize that you're creepy?

I think if he had a website where he had some ads and he posted first-look photos of the Once set (especially if he did it really quickly, before others) he could get some money. I briefly had a Once website back at the beginning of season 2. It was half-assed, I didn't have any exclusives (I just posted the episode stills that came out really quickly) and you would not BELIEVE the amount of clicks the ads (normal ones you can get with Google adwords) would get. If he had a really good setup and started posting those kinds of pics for Once and other popular Vancouver shows (Flash, Arrow, I think they're shooting the new X-Files?) he could make some money. Not enough to live on, maybe, but a nice sum. But he just posts them freely on Flick.

[Amerilla]

I've followed Larry for a couple years on Twitter, because he does post some good pics from time to time. From what I've gleaned from his posts, he's employed in an actual job - it just isn't that interesting. So set-stalking (and going to hockey games) seem to be his outlet.

 

As far as I know, he doesn't have a website, just his Flickr and Twitter accounts, nor have I heard of him selling autograph pics like VancityFilming. It's just a hobby, and not an unusual one for Vancouver these days.

 

Is he pushy and entitled? Maybe, but he's also playing within the rules set by show....otherwise, those very large men with SECURITY on their shirts would run him off as soon as he appeared. They have a lot of open sets, but they aren't unsecured sets.

 

Proximity to the action makes it a more hands-on version of fandom-ing than, say, Tumblr, or what we do here, but it's still a group activity. You're going to run into the same people at the shoots over and over, so you form friendships based on this affinity.  It's not a huge leap from that to joining that group and going to Paris or SDCC for cons. Not how I would spend my vacations, but, to each their own.

[Joanh23]

i was next in line after Larry for a group photo at the Fairy tales convention, and Lana had seen him already during the day coz she made some comment during a Q&A, but Jen and hadn't seen him and she was pretty shocked when he walked up.  The way the pic was setup you sat in front between Jen and Victoria and Lana was standing right behind you, so for Larry's pic Lana covered his eyes.  They all laughed it off but I got the distinct impression they weren't too happy seeing him there.

[Serena]

LOL, I don't get why he would go all the way to France and pay for a photo, doesn't he have like 50 already?

What comment did Lana make? I don't blame her at all if she's annoyed.

[OnceUponAJen]

William Shatner just posted this link

http://mashable.com/2015/07/16/end-anonymous-comments/

[myril]

William Shatner just posted this link

http://mashable.com/2015/07/16/end-anonymous-comments/

I am so tired of this anonymity bashing. If that were the big one problem, then middle ages should have been paradise of humanity and schoolyards friendly save zones. What BS. It's the view of privileged people living privileged secure lives in comfort, enjoying freedom of democratic countries. It's so not about some problems with fraud crimes or marketers gathering data. Killing anonymity will hurt more victims of real life bullying, harassment and oppression and persecution than it ever will stop online bullies.

 

You don't kill herd mentality that way. As long as bullies feel like they're getting some applause for their crap and threats and harassing people, and believe even their views and behavior is in some warped way justifiable, they will do that. It might take a few days to track some bullies down who know to hide tracks online, but use of pseudonyms and anonymity is not the problem. What should kill anonymity, that people get only access to internet and any social site if they show their ID an get verified with finger or voice prints? Every time they access, because otherwise you will never be sure if it really the person. You really think that the worst of the worst can't hack it? Populist crap solutions solving nothing but causing more problems.

 

edit: And most fandom bullies are rather easy to track down, no real troll material, just people behaving badly.

Edited July 17, 2015 by myril

[Souris]

SQers have DESCENDED on Natalie Abrams' Twitter to berate her for writing that Emma sacrificed herself for the town, instead of writing "for Regina." Sadly, a bunch of them are tagging JMo, too.

[Shanna Marie]

Is it bad that I rather like the idea of one of the people who likes stirring that stuff up being on the receiving end of the crazy? Will she remain a SQ champion after seeing first-hand what they're like?

[Souris]

Heh, I had the same thought, Shanna Marie! So if you're bad, I guess I am too.

[sharky]

Someone needs to screen cap that so anytime some SQer says they never harass anyone, we can just pull that out. How many times can people from the show say Emma saved the town -- including JMo -- before they get it through their heads? Let's hope Adam and Eddy have paid attention. This is one time when I wish they would give in to fan service and clarify exactly what's going on in the premiere.

[Souris]

Well, Eddy said in one SDCC interview that Emma sacrificed herself for Regina's happiness, so I'm not sure that would help matters any, since the writers and JMo seem to be on totally different pages there.

[Serena]

Oh, Natalie. Karma is a bitch.

I saw some of them trying it with Leanne and she was just like "calm yourself".

[pezgirl7]

The thing that annoys me is that, Yes, Emma did it to save Regina, but the whole town was in danger. Regina happened to be the first victim, but I saw it as a sacrifice for the whole town. The SQers choose not to see it that way, ignoring the fact that the darkness would have apparently consumed everyone. They only want to focus on Emma saving Regina, and won't accept anything else. And Eddy saying that Emma did it to save Regina's happiness, or whatever it is he said, doesn't help matters.

Edited July 17, 2015 by pezgirl7

[ABitOFluff]

The thing that annoys me is that, Yes, Emma did it to save Regina, but the whole town was in danger. Regina happened to be the first victim, but I saw it as a sacrifice for the whole town. The SQers choose not to see it that way, ignoring the fact that the darkness would have apparently consumed everyone. They only want to focus on Emma saving Regina, and won't accept anything else. And Eddy saying that Emma did it to save Regina's happiness, or whatever it is he said, doesn't help matters.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but going by their logic, if Hook was the one being consumed by the darkness, would SQers see her making the sacrifice for him? Somehow, I doubt that.

[Camera One]

Emma pretty much sacrificed her magic for Hook in "Kansas" even though that would have presumably left everyone in town, including her family, defenseless against Zelena.  

[Serena]

Emma pretty much sacrificed her magic for Hook in "Kansas" even though that would have presumably left everyone in town, including her family, defenseless against Zelena.  

And, you know, even though I think that was an important turning point for her realizing her own feelings for him ("Come back to me") I'm also not gonna deny that yeah, she probably would have done it for anyone, including Zelena.

 

EDIT: this made me LOL. Someone just tweeted Stephen Jackson, the director of photography, "hope to get some Swan Queen behind the scenes pics". He answered with a laconic "Unlikely."

Edited July 17, 2015 by Serena

[october]

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but going by their logic, if Hook was the one being consumed by the darkness, would SQers see her making the sacrifice for him? Somehow, I doubt that.

 

Their 'logic' changes depending on the circumstances so Hook always 'loses'. Outside of dumping Emma and pushing her into Regina's arms I don't think there's anything he could do to earn their approval. If he spends time with Henry he's only doing it to get into Emma's pants. If he doesn't spend time with Henry then it 'proves' he doesn't care about Emma's life and only wants to get into her pants. If Emma tells him she loves him it doesn't mean anything because actions speak louder than words. If she jumps into his arms out of joy that he's alive that doesn't mean anything because she never said 'I love you'. If Hook tries to right his past wrongs he's only doing it to weasle his way into Emma's life. He doesn't try to redeem himself then he's not good enough for Emma. And so on and so on and so on until my eyes bleed.

 

The ones in that twitter thread complaining that Natalie is undermining the importance of female relationships piss me off especially. You know what really undermines a relationship? When one person has been thoroughly and repeatedly victimised by the other, has never received an apology for said mistreatment, and is expected (by the show's own writers no less) to drop everything to ensure the happiness of a person who, not too long ago, was creaming her panties at the mere thought of ruining the lives of innocent people. Swan Queen is like the ouroboros of ships, an endless and self perpetuating loop of nonsense that sustains itself by devouring its own ass.

Edited July 17, 2015 by october

[Souris]

 Swan Queen is like the ouroboros of ships, an endless and self perpetuating loop of nonsense that sustains itself by devouring its own ass.

 

Possibly one of the greatest things I've ever read. And ITA with your whole post. Nothing Hook could do would ever be good in their eyes. And I've had it with their using feminism and homophobia and other real issues as a cudgel to try to force their ship.

Edited July 17, 2015 by Souris

[sharky]

The thing that annoys me is that, Yes, Emma did it to save Regina, but the whole town was in danger. Regina happened to be the first victim, but I saw it as a sacrifice for the whole town. The SQers choose not to see it that way, ignoring the fact that the darkness would have apparently consumed everyone. They only want to focus on Emma saving Regina, and won't accept anything else. And Eddy saying that Emma did it to save Regina's happiness, or whatever it is he said, doesn't help matters.

They actually did notice it and in response came up with that condescending SwanTown nonsense. Because JMo doesn't understand her character as well as they do apparently.

I would like to see that quote from Eddy, like the WHOLE quote. And I want to know if he said it in more than one place. Saying it to one reporter once at Comic Con isn't much to stand on all things considered.

[Souris]

I would like to see that quote from Eddy, like the WHOLE quote. And I want to know if he said it in more than one place. Saying it to one reporter once at Comic Con isn't much to stand on all things considered.

 

 

It's from this video, sharky. I stopped watching A&E videos after Eddy said that, so I don't know if they said it elsewhere, too.

[BaggythePanther]

Here's what I don't understand. Why are people who ship SQ so desperate for Emma's sacrifice to be only for Regina? Do they think Regina will be overwhelmed with emotion from the sacrifice and when she sees Emma again the two of them will ditch their respective boyfriends and be with each other? There have been two other times I can think of when Emma explicitly saved Regina- the fire in season one and the wraith in season two. Back then neither had canon love interests yet Emma risking her life for Regina never lead anywhere in terms of their relationship, the situation was just used to further the plot (Are they repeating themselves?). So I don't understand why they're trying to push this idea, to the point of harassing people when nothing is going to come of it.

[Faemonic]

Here's what I don't understand. Why are people who ship SQ so desperate for Emma's sacrifice to be only for Regina?

I'm sure there are as many reasons for that as there are people who show this specific sort of desperation. But you definitely get more when desperate people see other people voicing the same desperation that they feel (or might not feel, but it's suddenly cool to act like you feel it, and then Kurt Vonnegut is cool to quote), and a small crowd gives them permission to join the crowd and make it a bigger crowd.

 

One could have a predisposition against any variety of headcanon in a fandom, so if that individual is not dogmatic and imposing then they are consumed by fight-or-flight inducing fear that they're wrong, so if they don't win this argument, they'll never get over the trauma of...I don't know, losing a past argument about whether the voice actress for Pinkie Pie and Fluttershy was the same, and getting bullied to the edge of suicide for that minor fandom detail. That person needs Saviour Town to be debunked into the ground in order to find the will to live.

 

One could have a repressed desire for lesbian representation in the media that comes out as disproportionately intense when it can be "acceptably" released to the point that Sleeping Warrior gets ignored for this specific kind of chemistry in this specific other couple (so it actually won't help to tell them all to watch Carmilla or read Sunstone instead, because those show healthy lesbian relationships).

 

One could be digging the awkward divorcees vibe from Swan Queen because they're a bitter divorcee themselves who needs the fantasy of their ex coming crawling back to do that person right for once...or else, if they don't get it from their fiction/fantasy fandom, they'll do something in real life to fulfill their emotional need, like kidnap their ex to keep locked in a basement with medieval torture implements.

 

 

But do you really care, Baggy? Because I cannot with these bad apples, I cannot care...to such an abysmal extent that it has broken past "neutral" and into putting several paragraphs of effort into concluding how much I do not care. I suspect the majority of them are just bored! It is hiatus.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Faemonic

[Shanna Marie]

Why are people who ship SQ so desperate for Emma's sacrifice to be only for Regina?

I suspect it has a lot to do with the fact that they felt they had onscreen validation for their position -- not just "if you squint and tilt your head sideways, you might be able to interpret the subtext that way" validation, but actual lines and action in the text. Never mind that this interpretation involves ignoring some text and subtext, there's text! They have proof of Emma's love for Regina that they can use to browbeat others in arguments from now on. And they don't want that taken away from them by any pesky actress talking about how she sees her character's actions.

[mjgchick]

Did a CSer delete some SQers social media accounts? SQers are @ the actors about this. This fandom is so embarrassing. lol

[retrograde]

A CS fan allegedly hacked some SQ blog or tumblr or something and deleted everything on it. Which is shitty, but I'm not sure why anyone thinks the actors would care. 

[Mari]

Seriously?  Why on earth would someone do that?  This is a TV show.  The characters are not real people.  You do not have to defend the honor of  Emma or Hook--and even if  Emma and Hook were real people, they'd both be pretty capable of defending their own honor.  What was the CS fan thinking?

 

Was it actually about the shipping, or had the hacker and hackee started some sort of on-line hate fest at each other that escalated?

 

And even if it was some sort of on-line hate fest, why would the actors care that two people (allegedly) are childishly vandalizing online entertainment?  What does it have to do with them?

 

I think I'm embarrassed for my fandom.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Mari

[Souris]

I've been trying to figure that drama out. The latest I can work out is that there was an SQer ("Ethan") who deleted his Tumblr. Some Tumblr account with "captainswan" in the name said they did it, but it was an account that no actual CSer had ever seen posting about CS and that account is now deleted. So who the hell knows 1) if they even had anything to do with it or 2) if they were actually a CS fan or an SQ fan trying to make CS fans look bad. It's the Internet. People lie. They can say anything they want, but that doesn't make it true.

 

I sincerely doubt it was actually a CS fan. There's certainly no proof of that and a lot to side-eye. 

 

IMO, people need to be way more skeptical about stuff that goes around the Internet and not just take things at face value -- especially in divisive fandoms where factions try to make each other look bad. I love the journalism motto, "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."

 

In any case, nobody should be tagging the actors and Adam about that sort of fandom fuckery. WTF are they gonna do about it? The fans doing that are just trying to gain ship-war "points."

Edited July 19, 2015 by Souris

[pezgirl7]

Some SQers are blaming a specific CS fan, but she has twitter messages with Ethan proving it wasn't her. Although those could be faked. Apparently her and Ethan had issues in the past. She thinks someone made a fake CS tumblr account just to make the CS fans look bad. So basically I have no idea what is going on, but I hope the drama dies down super fast.

[Faemonic]

I've been trying to figure that drama out. The latest I can work out is that there was an SQer ("Ethan") who deleted his Tumblr. Some Tumblr account with "captainswan" in the name said they did it, but it was an account that no actual CSer had ever seen posting about CS and that account is now deleted. So who the hell knows 1) if they even had anything to do with it or 2) if they were actually a CS fan or an SQ fan trying to make CS fans look bad. It's the Internet. People lie. They can say anything they want, but that doesn't make it true.

 

I sincerely doubt it was actually a CS fan. There's certainly no proof of that and a lot to side-eye. 

 

IMO, people need to be way more skeptical about stuff that goes around the Internet and not just take things at face value -- especially in divisive fandoms where factions try to make each other look bad. I love the journalism motto, "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."

 

In any case, nobody should be tagging the actors and Adam about that sort of fandom fuckery. WTF are they gonna do about it? The fans doing that are just trying to gain ship-war "points."

 

LOL #NotAllCS #JustThatOne #Probably #CouldStillBeAFrameUp #OfASockpuppet

 

#ButSureLetsBotherTheGenevaConventionToo

[Camera One]

I must thank Google News for "suggesting" this article to me:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/98147-once-upon-a-time-needs-to-make-swan-queen-official-because-no-two-characters-are-better

[Lieutenant]

I must thank Google News for "suggesting" this article to me:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/98147-once-upon-a-time-needs-to-make-swan-queen-official-because-no-two-characters-are-better

Omg- that entire article is the absolute epitome of DELUSIONAL. Makes me seriously wonder if we are even watching the same show. I think my eyes are about to roll right out of my head.

[Souris]

Based on the title of that article, I'm not clicking on it to give it hits, LOL!

[Serena]

I'm sorry, I've been laughing for a good 15 minutes over the latest drama after reading this. Those people should be be in the CIA and use their powers for good, because this is like... NEXT LEVEL. 

[october]

From the article linked above:

 

After all, what makes a good partner? Someone who trusts you, supports you, who pushes you to be better; someone who pulls you back from the edge and reminds you of who you are when you’re in danger of losing sight of it. Someone who doesn’t judge you from your past mistakes but loves you in spite of them; someone who has faith in you, who reminds you every day that the world is a better place with you in it and who doesn’t give up on you when you mess up but instead encourages you to try again. If you can’t see that Emma and Regina match that description 150 percent, then I think we’ve been watching different shows.

 

....

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA! *dies a little inside*

 

Yes, Ms Still I really think we're watching entirely different shows. I'm watching a show where the main character is in a relationship with a man which has pretty much everything that you've just listed (and that's only a fraction of the scenes I could've pulled up). I mean... do they just mentally superimpose Regina's head onto Hook's body when they watch the show or something (sorry for that mental image)?

 

Emma has rallied around Regina but so have the Charmings, Robin and Henry. It's pretty much the SOP for the show nowadays. But it's hardly reciprocated (or healthy). When has Regina reminded Emma that the world is a better place because she's in it or encouraged her to be her best? She's yelled at Emma for ruining her life (on multiple occasions this last season) and she's called her a waste of magical ability (twice!). That is the exact opposite of those things.

 

I mean the top image is from 4-01 where Regina makes Emma feel like shit for saving the life of one of Regina's old murder victims. So much for not judging someone 'from [their] past mistakes'. Regina held that grudge for multiple episodes despite Emma's apologies and for a long time she believed Emma had done it on purpose. That's before we get to the verbal abuse. I see nothing to celebrate about Emma taking that mistreatment on the chin and still wanting to be Regina's friend. The next gif is from the mid S3 finale where Emma is crying because she's going to be separated from her parents yet again, not because she's sad at losing Regina.

 

The one positive thing I remember Regina doing for Emma this season is talking her down from shooting Lily but the ground work had already been laid by Hook and Henry and even the Charmings (and I never bought that Emma would shoot Lily in cold blood anyway). Most of those 'looks' from Regina to Emma that people like Still squee over only happen when Emma agrees to drop everything to make sure Regina gets what she wants, when she wants and how she wants it.

 

The only way that paragraph makes sense to me is in light of Emma being Regina's cheerleader and whipping girl. I know some people defend Regina and say 'that's just how she is/how she shows she cares'. But honestly if this is how she shows her affection then she can keep it, it's not worth it. No one should have to weather insults and excuse cruelty in order to be loved. That's how abusive relationships work, not healthy ones.

 

I thought I was being unfair when I once wrote that these sorts of SQ shippers (ones like this writter and that blogger who annoyed Jennifer Morrison during that round table interview) only prioritised Regina's needs, but articles like this really illustrate what I was getting at. I don't think Still even stopped to wonder whether her standard for a good partner is reflected in Regina's treatment of Emma.

 

The “I’d Sacrifice My Soul To Make You Happy” Move

 

Oh god oh god oh god, this shit again? I don't think I'll ever be able to watch the climax of the S4 finale ever again. It's ruined now. And even if this were true that's an entirely unhealthy basis for a relationship.

 

I get that people interpret things differently and gravitate towards aspects of the show that apeal to them. But most of this article's arguments go beyond harmless fanwanking. They're deliberately misleading and they remove the characters and scenes from their context so that they're nearly unrecognisable. This might as well be a review for a piece of SQ fanfiction.

 

Part of me wishes that Swan Queen could be the f/f relationship mainstream tv sorely needs. I haven't really enjoyed a front and centre female pairing since Xena and Gabrielle to be honest, so it's overdue. But for that to happen the entire show would have to be turned inside out and rebooted from the beginning. I don't support CS because Hook is a 'hunk of the day'. I support it because everything Still imagines Swan Queen does? Captain Swan actually does on screen where I can see it.

 

Anyway... I think I've reached my limit for slamming this pairing for at least the next month so I'll shut up now.

Edited July 19, 2015 by october

[PixiePaws1]

Seriously I just crack up laughing at the lunatic fringe who think SQ are 'secret canon'. Regina is gay, is she?? Those sneaky writers slipped that one right passed me while I was watching her over react to the death of the very MALE fiancé that she was so desperate to bring back to life and devastated to lose that she murdered her own father in order to curse an entire kingdom..

A curse during which she was free to shack up with any woman she fancied because she controlled who was who when they came over from the EF...but I seem to remember she didn't choose to rape a woman and crush her heart she chose Graham..or didn't she notice his plumbing? !

Now , granted I suffer from myopia and I do have the odd spot of trouble with the multifocals..but even standing on my head, squinting and looking sideways around the corner. ...I seriously can't get the gay vibe from Regina.

..

[Serena]

That quote is hilarious. Oh my. Are they serious?

[YaddaYadda]

So everything is either yearning or flirting or jealousy?  The jealous stare?  Really?  I know we all sort of headcanon shit, but that was hmmm interesting?  Oh well!  Live and let live, I guess.

[hockeycat400]

I honestly don't understand the concept of SQ.  I really don't.   Yes, Emma and Regina are two attractive women...one fair and one dark..and perhaps some would find them to be an aesthetically pleasing pair.  But they are two completely straight characters...and one tried to kill the other as an infant...and they spend time/work together because of Henry and the good of the town, not because they seem to genuinely like each other...sorry, this SQ stuff makes no sense to me whatsoever.  Are there two versions of OUAT being broadcast, and I'm only watching one...???!

[Shanna Marie]

The latest I can work out is that there was an SQer ("Ethan") who deleted his Tumblr. Some Tumblr account with "captainswan" in the name said they did it, but it was an account that no actual CSer had ever seen posting about CS and that account is now deleted. So who the hell knows 1) if they even had anything to do with it or 2) if they were actually a CS fan or an SQ fan trying to make CS fans look bad.

Maybe I've been watching too many WWII documentaries this summer, but this smells a lot like 1939 Poland, the old "put some of our guys in their uniforms and have them 'attack' us" ploy, so you can play the role of victim and then you're not starting a war, you're defending yourself against aggression. But I have to wonder why? Do they really think that the writers are going to see this and go "Oh no! Someone who likes Emma and Hook being together did something bad on the Internet! Scratch all our plans! Let's break them up and put Emma with Regina instead. That'll show them!"? If they really think that would happen, then what do they think the writers think about their behavior in harassing and attacking the cast, crew, people who run conventions, and reporters?

 

On the other hand, if it's real, then what would that one person hope to accomplish, and we're still back to why bring in the writers and actors to an interpersonal dispute? What do they expect to happen even if it's real? A fan did something bad, so change the show?

 

I've been around online fandom since the early 90s and alt.tv.x-files on Usenet, and I've never seen a shipper war get this crazy. I've also never seen this big a shipper war involving a non-canon ship. The most intense wars tend to be over things that are viable possibilities on the show but that remain unsettled, like the shippers vs. the no-romos for will they/won't they couples or for the teams behind the points on an unsettled romantic triangle. The non-canon shippers have generally been pretty freewheeling because they know it's not real. They might point out subtext that suggests they're not entirely insane, and they may write fanfic vilifying the other party in the canon relationship, but I've never seen them drag it into real life to this extent or demand that the actors, writers, conventions, and reporters give their non-canon ship equal weight to the canon when talking about the show.

[mjgchick]

To be fair the show has never had any of the characters mention their sexuality. That's as much defending you'd get out of me with some of these people. I'm still waiting for them to use all their energy on the actual f/f relationship. They just let it slip by them. I'm still pathetically holding out hope for Sleeping Warrior yet these fools fighting a losing battle where a relationship is based on one of them being someone's lapdog. At least Mulan treated Aurora with respect. Regina most of the times seems like she hates Emma. The last nice scene those two had where it looked like they didn't hate each other was in AU world where Regina didn't know Emma. I just don't see what these people are seeing but I guess the shipper heart wants what it wants. Just don't go threatening the writers and acting like it's an injustice towards you.

[patchwork]

Tumblr post

 

This is starting to remind me of the Harry Potter fandom in its heyday.

 

IP tracking, seriously? 

Edited July 19, 2015 by patchwork

[Curio]

How old are these people? This is why I can't do Tumblr. I like scrolling through the pretty pictures, looking at gifs, and reading the occasional well-written meta, but I can't stand the high school (or are they middle school?) crazies. I'll stick to posting here where (most of) the discussion is based on canon and analyzing the show.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Curio

[Souris]

Tumblr post

 

This is starting to remind me of the Harry Potter fandom in its heyday.

 

IP tracking, seriously? 

 

Even after reading that, I still don't know exactly what happened or who's to "blame." What a ridiculous mess. There was some kerfuffle about that same Ethan person months ago -- like, he said something nice about CS and SQers went after him, or he may have been trolling CSers with fake nice comments for a bit. I don't know, there was something that happened, but I mostly ignored it because I had no idea who he was and I didn't care.

 

I do know that there's an SQ Tumblr, BadAppleHQ, that tracks the IPs of CS and OQ fans, and they were one of the ones tweeting about this situation to the cast and crew. The person who runs it purports to be an ex-miliary cyber expert who's now out on disability and thus has a lot of time to waste on this stuff. Who knows if that's true, but she is tracking IPs. I find IP-tracking of other fans to be EXTREMELY disquieting, over the top and borderline cyber-bullying. Really, resorting to IP tracking over a TV crackship???

Edited July 19, 2015 by Souris

[myril]

I honestly don't understand the concept of SQ.  I really don't.   Yes, Emma and Regina are two attractive women...one fair and one dark..and perhaps some would find them to be an aesthetically pleasing pair.  But they are two completely straight characters...

 

Using this quote just as an example. This is not against the poster, it concern all.

 

A suggestion. I am annoyed how a very few are using LGBTQQI and feminist ideas and issues in this fandom. But please, do yourself and others a favor, make it easy and take the question about sexual orientation of the characters out of the discussion. There is so much more between gay/lesbian and heterosexual, that arguments like "they've only been with men so far" or "are with men right now" or "never showed interest" always fall short and get you nowhere. If such arguments, that they are straight in your opinion,  are an important and at worst even your main point against SQ, then I think you should reflect, if maybe you have a bias if it comes to sexual orientations. No, to make that clear before everyone reads something else into what I am writing here, and gets all heated up, I am not calling any of you homophobic with this. But I do see frequently a bias in question of sexual orientation here and in other places. Just leave it out, because it doesn't matter, or it shouldn't. It will be hard eventually not to drop it sometimes in between, that you yourself believe that because characters like Regina and Emma haven't shown any interest in anything but male lovers so far they can't be anything but straight, but try it. Regina and Emma as couple have plenty and more important other issues.

 

You make it rather easy for them to shout "issue" claiming whatever phoby at all times.

 

And an advice. Don't make it that much about canon or non-canon either.

 

Just don't fuel the fire. Unless you want the heat.

 

Don't make it about what some people say but how they say it because that should be the issue. People can have different views on and interpretations of things, can be quite passionate or in our eyes somewhat crazy, we get it sometimes, some we find utterly not understandable, but that is life. If they threaten, offend, bully though - call that out. Regardless what and who it is about.

 

This is not the first fandom having big shipping issues and particular when it involves questions of representation of LGBTQQI (and I know usenet times as well, internet dinosaur so to speak, have different experience than others here). But there is a way to tone it down at least in some matters.

[pezgirl7]

Damn, that post was long and confusing, I had to skip most of it. The hypocrisy in this statement at the end of the post made me roll my eyes:

CS as a collective didn’t hack Ethan, but CS as a collective has a responsibility to foster a culture in which fringe elements like this hacker can’t exist, or at least a culture that it’s not so easy to believe that the hacker acted in the name of.

Each fandom has bad apples, and the good ones shouldn't have to be responsible for what any of the bad ones do or say. In an ideal world, it would be great if fandoms could police themselves, but that doesnt really seem to work well in the Once fandom. I can't really blame either side for what happened, because I think it was one or two people who caused this whole mess. I'm not going to apologize on behalf of CSers, nor would I blame SQers that had nothing to do with it. My problem is with people dragging the cast and crew into a fandom issue. How will that accomplish anything? Ah, I'm probably preaching to the choir, so I'll just stop typing.

Edited July 19, 2015 by pezgirl7

[RedKeep]

 

I do know that there's an SQ Tumblr, BadAppleHQ, that tracks the IPs of CS and OQ fans, and they were one of the ones tweeting about this situation to the cast and crew. The person who runs it purports to be an ex-miliary cyber expert who's now out on disability and thus has a lot of time to waste on this stuff. Who knows if that's true, but she is tracking IPs. I find IP-tracking of other fans to be EXTREMELY disquieting, over the top and borderline cyber-bullying.

I didn't really follow any of this "Ethan" drama and based on what little I have seen on my dash I don't have any intentions to change that, but I very much agree that this BadAppleHQ and the behavior of the person behind it (I think she has at least 2 Twitter accounts?) is extremely problematic.

 

I first came across that blog when they were insisting that someone in fandom is actually a gay man and not a straight guy as he supposedly told them. They were somehow trying to prove a point with that and trying to collect evidence of this person being gay. The same routine of IP tracking and what can only be described as cyber-stalking begun and resulted in several posts on Twitter and that blog about assumed "proof" for their theory about this guy and his sexuality. It was quite disturbing to be honest and I couldn't believe how this person convinced herself that what she was doing was a form of self-defense and totally okay.

[mjgchick]

Wow. I couldn't read that post because TL;DR but the gist of it just sounds insane to me. People it's a freakin show about fairytales. But yeah involving the cast and crew is so annoying. These people have lives. They don't owe us anything. Quit breaking the 4th wall.

[Serena]

Really? This person is supposedly a superhacker with military background who tracks people's IPs for fun and keeps a blog for "receips" and we're supposed to believe a rando CS fan who then disappeared is behind this supposed cyber attack... and not the person tracking IPs who's super invested in showing SQ "receipts"? Oh, okay. They DEFINITELY have too much time on their hands. I don't even wanna open their damn Tumblr accounts because who knows what kinds of cookies and IP tracking they have in there? So I'll leave it to you to report on this breaking "news".

Edited July 19, 2015 by Serena

[Souris]

I first came across that blog when they were insisting that someone in fandom is actually a gay man and not a straight guy as he supposedly told them. They were somehow trying to prove a point with that and trying to collect evidence of this person being gay. The same routine of IP tracking and what can only be described as cyber-stalking begun and resulted in several posts on Twitter and that blog about assumed "proof" for their theory about this guy and his sexuality. It was quite disturbing to be honest and I couldn't believe how this person convinced herself that what she was doing was a form of self-defense and totally okay.

 

Wait, what?? I never even heard about that instance! That's horrible. Yeah, tracking someone's IP to try to out them on the Internet against their will is totally OK and self-defense and not at all insane. ????????