Fandom and Viewer Issues: "Fan" Is Short for "Fanatic"

[Rumsy4]

Do you mean this post, @Faemonic? It's certainly one of the more interesting relationships in the Show. Any further discussions should probably be in the "villains" thread, though. 

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Because I think the characters here are usually more inconsistent than complex, but I'm personally most likely to accept a complex relationship from these two characters particularly. 

I'm going to take this to the writers thread.

[Faemonic]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Do you mean this post, @Faemonic? It's certainly one of the more interesting relationships in the Show. Any further discussions should probably be in the "villains" thread, though. 

Whoops, thanks! From what I've read, though, this fandom is all too loud when it comes to main villain favoritism, like...we can't enjoy all three as characters? Why noooot? There might be some subtle friction between Snowing Needs Parenting Classes versus Nuh-uh Emma Swan Is Just An Adult Brat, and that's not as dominant. It's all mostly a fandom issue, anyway, I think, unless I missed a canon bawl, which is likely.

[sharky]

Apparently the SQ crazies are out in force on Twitter and Adam, bless his heart, has been responding to them. They seem to be taking some spoiler photos wayyyyyyyyy out of context and concocting this whole thing about Adam not being sensitive to Regina. I have no idea. I just... table flipping, hands up in exasperation, etc. etc. These people have no idea what happens for families in the real world.

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, sharky said:

Apparently the SQ crazies are out in force on Twitter and Adam, bless his heart, has been responding to them. They seem to be taking some spoiler photos wayyyyyyyyy out of context and concocting this whole thing about Adam not being sensitive to Regina. I have no idea. I just... table flipping, hands up in exasperation, etc. etc. These people have no idea what happens for families in the real world.

Spoiler

There was a Captain Cobra scene filmed. Which according to some apparently means Hook is now more important to Henry than Regina?? Go figure! lol

[Camera One]

I did like this comment

Adam Horowitz ‏@AdamHorowitzLA  

@SgtMac7 @schmemmm you are literally discussing nothing. Just rumors

[Souris]

I also liked this one:

Adam Horowitz ‏@AdamHorowitzLA  5h5 hours ago

@SgtMac7 @schmemmm you don't speak for the show or its goals

[YaddaYadda]

No, but they really don't think further than the tip of their nose with this whole stepparents and adoption nonsense they've been spewing. Isn't Lana stepmother to 3 boys? And she talks about them very lovingly. One of them was even with her at the TCA.

I don't get how their minds work.

[mjgchick]

I saw one say they were opressed. These people are comparing not having a canon ship to what PoC/LGBTQ/family members who lost their loved ones to awful police officers as not having their ship be canon. I can't take them seriously. They've lost reality at this point.

[mjgchick]

First of all that pic Jennifer posted of her and Colin each other's jackets is so childish and cute. Second of all thank god she doesn't really go into Twitterthat much because her mentions are on fire with hate and creepy obsession post

[ABitOFluff]

Jen is the captain of her ship. She and Colin are friends. I like to think she's stopped listening to the haters and posts whatever she likes now. It's one thing I love about her.

[maryle]

I think all the hate used to bother her and she did tryed to be inclusive at first. But, she learned that they only seem to liked her when she did stuff they wanted. Now she just do her  own thing without bothering anymore.

[Serena]

I think she basically doesn't check Twitter anymore, but simply has it synched to her Instagram account (which is starting to roll out more robust anti-troll measures for celebs, too). 

[OnceUponAJen]

That picture is awesome!  Twitter honestly needs to find some solutions to the troll problem or celebrities (who attract members) are going to keep moving to other less interactive platforms.  i can't say that I blame them.

[sharky]

Why did I respond to an illogical SQer on tumblr? Someone take the Internet away from me.

Also, in response to SQ fans charging that Captain Swan fans somehow bought votes for the Teen Choice Awards and are paying for Instagram bots, the CS fans have now responded with a contest to identity the supposed CS millionaire bankrolling all of this. It's funny and all, but DEAR GOD! This hiatus needs to end.

[maryle]

At this point it is not about the real show anymore it is about some head canon they have for their fanon show(1 )and relation between the actress and actors(2) in real life.

They seems not be able to cope when real life event do not add up with their version of 1 or 2 and lash out or use conspirationist theory to deal with it.

That almost scary! 

[Eolivet]

Fascinating article about new fandom, including the new intersection of shipping and social justice.

I agree with most of it, with the added caveat that I believe creators have brought some of this brought this on themselves by making themselves available through social media. When you didn't agree with a storyline, one used to write an angry letter or at most, submit an angry comment on a network Web site. Being able to have instant access to the object of one's distress is going to tacitly encourage more forward behaviors from already passionate fans.

It's akin to standing in the ruins of a burned down house after dousing it in gasoline and saying "I can't understand why it burned down. I literally had no idea someone was going to come by with a match."

[daxx]

Stop me, I'm looking up the accepted definition and signs of emotional abuse to respond to a rumbeller that dared CS to explain why Rumbelle is abusive on tumblr. Must.not.start.fight...

[Rumsy4]

Not worth it ... lol

[PixiePaws1]

I  don't know if this will help but if you have no respect for these people their opinion should have no value....or impinge on your life at all...

that said....if they go on the attack I know it is very difficult to not want to put them back in their box (preferably a box with no air holes)

[sharky]

And now an SQ fan is going on again about how JMo singled her out by name at a Once con last year because JMo doesn't like her. Seriously? People still believe that garbage? Because Jennifer has nothing better to do with her life. 

[daxx]

Instead of starting a fight I simply asked her to keep her post out of our tag (captain swan).

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, sharky said:

And now an SQ fan is going on again about how JMo singled her out by name at a Once con last year because JMo doesn't like her. Seriously? People still believe that garbage? Because Jennifer has nothing better to do with her life. 

Even if JMo actually named some blog, I wouldn't blame her. Some of these people constantly talk trash about her, and accuse her of vile stuff (like wanting threesomes with actors). So, if they got called out for it, they just need to deal with it. It's not a one-way street. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

4 hours ago, sharky said:

And now an SQ fan is going on again about how JMo singled her out by name at a Once con last year because JMo doesn't like her. Seriously? People still believe that garbage? Because Jennifer has nothing better to do with her life. 

You know, I don't believe it happened, because JMo is much too busy (and smart) a lady. But if it happened? I'm sure the "fan" did something to deserve it. 

[maryle]

So, since  I am on a vacation I decided to looked it up in the Jen tag. That was a mystake by the way, I Just cannot deal with their twist obsession for Jen anymore.

But I saw a post that claimed that Jen accused the blogger to manipulate impressionnable young to like SQ and others way? like they have bad agenda.

I Just  cannot when you say stuff like that you should be able to have real proof not the I heard from someone on the internet kind. But, people was basing her because of the blogger claimed.

I mean they really have this obsession with JMO it always about she is deep closeted or is a blond  promiscuous bimbo homophone.

Why can she just be a good actress who like her canon relationship and his friend with her co star. And maybe the reason it had becomes a little weird with Lana at least in public is because she know that they will twist everything and she is tired of it all. No, that she afraid they can really manipulate anyone who do not want it first.

[OnceUponAJen]

On 08/10/2016 at 3:19 AM, PixiePaws1 said:

I  don't know if this will help but if you have no respect for these people their opinion should have no value....or impinge on your life at all...

that said....if they go on the attack I know it is very difficult to not want to put them back in their box (preferably a box with no air holes)

Much like the box Belle is in right now!

[Shanna Marie]

This article about a situation with another show has been getting a lot of discussion on my Twitter feed. You could pretty much do a search and replace for the series name and character names and it would be about part of the fandom for this show (well, aside from the writer quitting Twitter instead of trying to argue with, reason with, and coddle the toxic part of the fandom).

For instance, does this sound familiar, or what?

Quote

While most of the Steven Universe fandom is supportive and welcoming, there is a small subsection that’s known for being extreme and hostile under the guise of inclusiveness.

[Souris]

I have never even heard of that show, Shanna Marie, but a very interesting article about a situation that does indeed seem VERY familiar!

[Serena]

That situation is indeed interesting, especially something that I had noticed in this fandom, but is pratically proved by that article: people are using "queerbaiting" to mean "the (gay) ship I like isn't happening", instead of the actual meaning of "queerbaiting". In that situation with SU, it's even more clear because *both* the ships are same sex ships, and still the fans of the "losing" one (I have no idea if it's losing, I don't watch the show, but I'm assuming) still call it queerbaiting that ANOTHER ship is happening even if it's a gay one. It's the "I'm mad things aren't going my way so I'm going to use a social justice buzzword to shame you into taking my side" aspect of fandom that has emerged recently.

[mjgchick]

This is why I get confused when people say the writers queerbait when that's not how that works. Does Adam and Eddy like giving Regina and Emma fans scenes? Sure but I just never get the vibe that they are queerbaiting them. No one ever questions it when it's Snow and Regina or most of S4a when Emma and Elsa were galpaling around and they had a more meaningful friendship then Emma and Regina's ever had. Then their are David and Killian scenes or the little scenes we got with Killian and Robin. Why is it only a thing when it's Regina and Emma when half the time Regina's an asshole towards her. That finale where she ignored or belittle the time Emma was DS was such a shitty thing to do and yet people called that queerbaiting. That's just not how it works. Do people honestly think being a douche to a so called friend is romantic?

 

If you want to see queerbaiting watch 2 Broke Girls, Supernatural or Rizolli and Isles.

Also speaking of creepy what happened to Jen during that award show she was getting honored at? I heard some fans crashed that award show or maybe I'm confusing with they wished they did so they could ambush her with shipper questions.

[TheGreenKnight]

Yeah, when I think of queerbaiting, I think of Supernatural and Teen Wolf. I just never got it with this show, but I'm sure many would disagree with that.

[Mari]

I think the queerbaiting comes less from the show, and more from how the show is promoted, at times.  I don't know what they've done with on-line promotions recently, but I remember that some episodes, including the horrific season 4A episode where Regina screamed and complained at Emma for most of the episode, was promoted with a Swan Queen hashtag and a big heart.  At times, it's gotten the same, or enough similar as to make no difference, promo treatment that the established canon couples have gotten.  I can't think of any other nonromantic relationship that's been promoted with a big heart.

It makes sense that a few Swan Queen fans would legitimately feel cheated, if they saw Season 1 and 2 as UST, and then eventually saw promotional postings on twitter and facebook treating them like a romantic couple, but now it's not ever going to happen.

[mjgchick]

Then they should talk to ABC about that not Adam and Eddy who even with their half assed writing has never written the show where Emma is secretly waiting for Hook to die just to be with Regina. This season has done everything they could to make the audience know that this is it for Emma. 

[RadioGirl27]

I don't know if it could be called queerbaiting but some writting and casting choices in season 4 were clearly made to bait the SQ shippers. 

[Rumsy4]

OUAT doesn't blatantly queerbait like Supernatural or Sherlock, but S4 was the point where the promo and the writing stepped into qb territory with Emma and Regina. The infamous 4.05 episode where Regina dumped her vituperative spite at Emma was promoted as a Swan Queen episode on social media by both abc and the writer for the episode. Also, casting a latin-looking actress as Lily drew another parallel to the so-called friendship between Emma and Regina. Add in the horrible shoving Hook's heart into his chest in front of the restroom and then having shrot with Regina 2 minutes later. Emma was obsessed with getting Regina a Happy Ending through the season, culminating in taking on the Darkness to "save" her. CS was obviously not the priority relationship for Emma in that season

I never felt that the writers were coding SQ as canon in S4, and there was a good bit of CS development in the background. However, I wasn't happy with the way Emma was obsessed with Regina's HE, especially when I didn't see Regina deserving of that kind of sacrifice from someone whose childhood she was largely responsible for spoiling. Who does that for someone they don't care for deeply? Guilt or pity alone doesn't explain it. The writers clearly meant it as Emma truly caring about Regina. They explain it as friendship, but where the "friendship" is so one-sided and toxic, people are going to look for other explanations. So, S4 is when I would least blame people for thinking SQ as canon. I also think the ending of Legend of Korra gave some of these people additional hope. For whatever reason, they thankfully pulled back from it in S5, with CS clearly getting the most development of Emma's relationships. But they again dialed back to Regina & Emma with the season finale, with Emma feeling guilty over Hook's return becasue Regina once again was not happy the same time as her. SQ is never going to be canon in the Show, and at this point most people know it. But I can't fully acquit the show of queerbaiting--intended or not. I blame it on their REC, where they see the need for everyone to worship at Regina's altar. So, no one behaves rationally when it comes to Regina, and show her excessive regard and concern. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Rumsy4

[maryle]

I do think people are not fair when they say that A and E. queerbait because they clairly said on numerous occasion that SQ as romantique relationship will never happen.

As soon at the comic con prior to season 3 when they were asked or when  they said it in the afterellen article too.  After that both actress when asked about it in real promotion article use the sister ans bbf title.

Now, sm seem often gave what the fans of certain relation want more than just stay with the canon. So, occasionnally they gave to some part of the SQ fantom who seem to want to be queerbait or are ok with some of it.  I guess the problem is when some of them take that more seriously than others of their shipmate.

[Souris]

I do think ABC promotion was queerbaiting a little in S4, with the SQ hashtag -- but they were clearly told to stop it at some point. They deleted some tweets with SQ hashtags and edited out the SQ hashtags on Facebook, and they haven't used it since.

I think A&E really like the "friendship" between Emma & Regina and think it's great (though it's shown as incredibly toxic & one-sided IMO); the eps they write tend to have a lot of E/R focus. Adam has done a lot of interacting with SQ fans on Twitter -- way more long, involved conversations with them where he's obviously thinking about his replies rather than his flippant "thanks" or few-words answers to other fans. Can that be considered queer-baiting? I don't know.

[Rumsy4]

19 minutes ago, maryle said:

I do think people are not fair when they say that A and E. queerbait because they clairly said on numerous occasion that SQ as romantique relationship will never happen.

But that kind of behavior is part of qb where it happens. For example in Sherlock. The creators dismiss people in interviews for thinking Sherlock and Watson will get together. But winks and nudges are put in the show like when people mistake them for a couple, etc.. 

Quote

Adam has done a lot of interacting with SQ fans on Twitter -- way more long, involved conversations with them where he's obviously thinking about his replies rather than his flippant "thanks" or few-words answers to other fans. Can that be considered queer-baiting? I don't know.

I don't know either. I'll never understand why Adam expends so much time and energy placating online bullies, many of whom don't even watch the show legally. I think Adam likes being liked way too much, and thinks he can convince people by arguing with them. 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

CS was obviously not the priority relationship for Emma in that season

I think CS still figured quite strongly in Season 4 despite the SQ-friendship with "Breaking Glass" and the whole Young Emma/Young Lily stuff.  Even when an episode was not solely about CS, there were some quality moments between CS, so it was about the relationship in some way or form.  It looked like in Season 4, the Writers did prioritize CS and SQ at least equally in that regard.  Whereas Rumbelle for example gets sole episodes and then get ignored for multiple episodes.  Emma/Henry tends to be once in a while, but ignored for episodes at a time.  While Emma/parents get practically no significant scenes alone, without others present.  But of course, if you look at the Twitter posts by viewers who watch solely for SQ or solely for CS, they would hound A&E saying their preferred ship did not get enough focus.

4-1: Emma and Hook had multiple conversations alone, where Hook asked Emma if she were avoiding him and 
4-2: Hook works with David to save Emma
4-3: Hook has conversations with Elsa about Emma and her walls
4-4: Hook and Emma's date
4-5: Hook and Emma share a private moment with the box of momentos
4-6: Hook and Emma have a heart-to-heart about their childhood

etc.

[Serena]

Okay, but think about this: what about Snow and Regina? Just for a moment, pretend they have the same passionate "shipping" fandom Emma and Regina has. Then look at their scenes in S1-S5 the same way you've just looked at SQ looking for queerbaiting. I would say they have an HIGHER amount of scenes where they care for each other (and I'm pretty sure there are tweets about their relationships on the official Twitter and FB, too). But people don't accuse A&E of queerbaiting Snow Queen like they do Swan Queen. Why is that? 

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I think CS still figured quite strongly in Season 4 despite the SQ-friendship with "Breaking Glass" and the whole Young Emma/Young Lily stuff.  Even when an episode was not solely about CS, there were some quality moments between CS, so it was about the relationship in some way or form.  It looked like in Season 4, the Writers did prioritize CS and SQ at least equally in that regard.  Whereas Rumbelle for example gets sole episodes and then get ignored for multiple episodes.  Emma/Henry tends to be once in a while, but ignored for episodes at a time.  While Emma/parents get practically no significant scenes alone, without others present.  But of course, if you look at the Twitter posts by viewers who watch solely for SQ or solely for CS, they would hound A&E saying their preferred ship did not get enough focus.

Like I said, I do think CS got a good amount of development in S4. However, I felt that the writing was prioritizing Emma's friendship with Regina over her relationship with anyone else, including both Henry and Hook (I'm not even going to mention Snowing). I'm not saying Emma should have had maximum screentime with Killian over others (The scene between Emma and Hook in the station with the box of momentoes was clearly meant as a "no homo" bracket to the rest of the epsidoe that heavily focussed on Emma and Regina). I still have no clear idea as to the ultimate point of S4, because with Robin's death and EQ!Regina's self-pity party back on track, the whole season seems moot. 

1 minute ago, Serena said:

Okay, but think about this: what about Snow and Regina? Just for a moment, pretend they have the same passionate "shipping" fandom Emma and Regina has. Then look at their scenes in S1-S5 the same way you've just looked at SQ looking for queerbaiting. I would say they have an HIGHER amount of scenes where they care for each other (and I'm pretty sure there are tweets about their relationships on the official Twitter and FB, too). But people don't accuse A&E of queerbaiting Snow Queen like they do Swan Queen. Why is that? 

Because they are step-mother and step-daughter. Plus Snow/Charming has been a thing since the beginning. And Snow's deep care for Regina at least makes sense. She was a kid when Regina saved her life, and justified or not, she still feels guilt over Daniel. There is much less justification within the show as to why Emma cares for Regina so much. Some people who shipped SQ did that since the beginning of the Show, before CS was a thing.

[Camera One]

Yes, and A&E also love that relationship (Regina/Snow)  I think it stems from the fact that people latched upon Emma and Regina right from the beginning, when both Emma and Regina were single.  Maybe there's also the sense that Snow is lame-o and is no match for Regina whereas Emma is more badass.  Still, the Writers clearly include Snow/Regina on their checklist of couplings to write for every season.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Camera One

[RadioGirl27]

48 minutes ago, Souris said:

I do think ABC promotion was queerbaiting a little in S4, with the SQ hashtag -- but they were clearly told to stop it at some point. They deleted some tweets with SQ hashtags and edited out the SQ hashtags on Facebook, and they haven't used it since.

I think that, during Season 4, both ABC and the writers thought that this strategy of baiting the SQ shippers was a good way to calm the bullies but they backtracked when they realised it was only encouraging them. 

[margiemyth]

Today in fandumb wank: several BA Sqers are trying to get Leanne Aguilera fired from ET by tweeting her boss  Brad Bessey with regards to her "unprofessional conduct" because she dared to BLOCK a few SQers who were continually harassing her on twitter.  This is a brand new low, even for them. The  woman is doing her JOB by promoting the show and all she gets in response is hate because she refuses to cater to a small group of people.

[Serena]

What is it with SQers and getting people fired? 

BTW I don't know if this info is true (at first glance I thought she was Christina Perri) but the idea is making me crack up.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Serena

[sharky]

I don't think I can roll my eyes far enough back in my head at this. I honestly can't believe they're dumb enough to think tweeting someone at ET about a reporter who doesn't cater to fanon will actually get that reporter fired.

[ABitOFluff]

4 minutes ago, sharky said:

I don't think I can roll my eyes far enough back in my head at this. I honestly can't believe they're dumb enough to think tweeting someone at ET about a reporter who doesn't cater to fanon will actually get that reporter fired.

But she's a homophobe! Because y'know. We all are.

But seriously, Leanne has a job she loves, meeting the cast of her favorites shows. What the hell are these people doing with their lives?

[KingOfHearts]

Isn't Leanne known for being sympathetic toward SQ? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Isn't Leanne known for being sympathetic toward SQ? Or am I thinking of someone else?

There's Natalie Abrams who is a SQ cheerleader, though she seems to have toned that down a bit. Leanna always makes sure she asks about everyone, including SQ.

Those guys on Twitter are just plain toxic. 

[margiemyth]

Its okay , Jennifer Still has promised to reach out to Lana about an interview, because she's a REAL and UNBIASED journalist.  Apparently it will be the"100 % interview of the century" because she had an SQ tumblr. Okay, good for them. AS for myself, I promise to stay in my own lane, and not harass her online because she chooses to fangirl.