S08.E02: What's Up, Tiger Mommy?

[Demented Daisy]

After saving Kevin's mother from demons, Sam, Dean, and Kevin go after the Word of God which is being auctioned off by Pultus, the god of greed.

 

 

Love this episode.  Maybe because I love Mrs. Tran.  :-)

 

[Amerilla]

The only problem for me is that I'm a massive Futurama fan, and every time Mrs Tran opened her mouth, all I could think was Amy Wong.

[catrox14]

Was Sam in this? Was Crowley? Were the Trans? I really don't remember anything else happening besides this :

 

These two fuckers spent a year trying to protect each other and neither of them knew the other one was doing it. That is my cold dead heart growing three sizes.  My gods. This is more than sharing a profound bond. It's love. In whatever way that means. Gods, you fuckers. 

 

I love this episode more than the season opener and really wish they combined them into a 2 hour episode.  But again, I'm all about the Purgatory flashbacks. Everything with Mama Tran was great.  And I love me some Samandriel. Dean threatening Sam about Baby will always be funny to me. I mean c'mon, Sam!!! It's Baby!! WTF are you thinking?? 

 

But yeah....love this episode

Edited August 21, 2014 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

Overall, this was an okay one. Still not caring for the flashbacks, but this is one instance where they actually used them to tell us something useful--what happened to Cas in Purgatory--I still don't like the treatment they did to them, though. I like Ty Olsen and liked Benny from the go, so it was nice to see him, too. Still have no idea what exactly they thought they were doing with Sam, but I learned to let that go a while back, so whatever. Also, liked the idea of the supernatural action, just wish they had used it a bit better.  I'm not the biggest fan of Mrs. Tran, although I love Lauren Tom, so I'll take her too. The only part that bugs the living hell out of me is when Crowley possesses Mrs. Tran she speaks with a Scottish accent so that us dumb viewers would know that was Crowley in there. I hate it when my shows think I'm too stupid to follow along that they feel the need to tell me everything in nauseating detail. That's mostly why I've come to loathe S8 and S9, they tell us everything that I don't need to know--over and over and over again--in lieu of showing us important things that I wanted to know. It makes it harder for me to look back and find nice things to say.

 

Overall, I was still on board with the show and was entertained for another week.

[Demented Daisy]

Watching Bugs this morning and I never noticed that the kid in it and Samandriel were played by the same person (Tyler Johnston).  Bad SPN fan, bad!

[DittyDotDot]

I rather enjoyed this episode on re-watch; it's more in-tone with the show I know and love. There's some silly with the auction, some fun with Kevin and his mommy, and some heart and soul with Cass and Dean's purgatory stuff--even a bit of a scare with Dean going all Purgatory on that one guy's ass in the jail--and it melded together fairly seamlessly.

 

Still annoyed by Mrs. Tran speaking with a Scottish accent when possessed by Crowley, but I was prepared for it this time. And, I'm kinda amused that apparently angels grow beards in Purgatory, but humans don't (maybe it's just as it was explained to Jensen, though, Dean has knives). Nice to see that Bugs kid again, though. And, I'm amending my assertion that I want someone to stab Crowley in his neck, we can wait till after this episode, I find him really amusing here.

 

BTW, we were talking about the original score and how we haven't heard a guitar riffs for ages--it's here in this episode; Dean's Dirty Organ is in full display and it's glorious, IMO. It's a nice contrast to the flute tooting and piano plinking in the previous episode, IMO.

[Goldmoon]

Liked Mrs. Tran.  The auction was funny, and I always like Dean, Sam and Crowley in the same room.  Here is a problem hanging over from last season though.  When Sam and Dean first found the tablet I thought the FIRST thing Sam would do was take out a large thin sheet of paper and take a rubbing.  Since he didn't have that archeological kink, why didn't he take photos of it and store them on his phone, on Dean's phone and on his laptop?  How on earth do they not have a copy of the thing?

[AwesomO4000]

Liked Mrs. Tran.  The auction was funny, and I always like Dean, Sam and Crowley in the same room.  Here is a problem hanging over from last season though.  When Sam and Dean first found the tablet I thought the FIRST thing Sam would do was take out a large thin sheet of paper and take a rubbing.  Since he didn't have that archeological kink, why didn't he take photos of it and store them on his phone, on Dean's phone and on his laptop?  How on earth do they not have a copy of the thing?

 

I'm not sure if that's how the tablets work. I think they "say" a lot more than can actually be seen. Otherwise it wouldn't take Kevin so long to translate them. I always got the impression that Kevin had to actually be in contact with the tablet in order to "read" them.

 

That's my fanwank anyway.

[Dobian]

I love Crowley, and always look forward to "Hello, boys".  My favorite villain.  Fun ep, and Mrs. Tran got a good pop on him.  What did Dean do to Cass in purgatory?  Intrigued.

[JunebugWA]

Maybe because Crowley was the King of Hell because how he could possess Mrs. Tran after she got devil's trap tattoo? I thought she and Kevin got it so that they would not be possessed. 

[DittyDotDot]

5 minutes ago, JunebugWA said:

Maybe because Crowley was the King of Hell because how he could possess Mrs. Tran after she got devil's trap tattoo? I thought she and Kevin got it so that they would not be possessed. 

The servant of the God--a.k.a. Mr. Peanut--burned off the tattoo so Crowley could possess her.  

[Hanahope]

Ah, I really liked Mrs. Tran.  She has spunk!  I hope she snaps out of the possession.  Next time, get your devel's trap tattoo on a part of your body that's less noticable.  I loved how she just sat there, while Kevin squirmed and screamed. 

The auction was fun, but we didn't get to see much.  Why didn't Sam keep Thor's hammer?  That seems like a useful weapon, since he can obviously wield it (and what does that say about Sam?).  They should know never to let Kevin be alone in a room, he always has something up his sleeve.

And boy, you get the tablet out of Crowley's hands (via Ms. Tran) and then you just stand there while Crowley leaves the body and recorpulates into himself.  Dean had plenty of time to grab the tablet.

Ok, I chuckled over the angel willing to auction off the Vatican.  lol.

And Kevin, a bus station locker?  Seriously?  I thought he was smart.

[Hanahope]

Oh if Mrs. Tran's soul was her most precious item and that made it worthy to bid, I think if Dean put up Baby, that would have worked too.

[AwesomO4000]

14 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Why didn't Sam keep Thor's hammer?  That seems like a useful weapon, since he can obviously wield it (and what does that say about Sam?).

If I remember correctly, I think Sam broke the hammer? As for what that says about Sam... don't get me started. I was "out" for a few episode after this one. I applaud your ability to keep going

[DittyDotDot]

7 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

If I remember correctly, I think Sam broke the hammer?

We don't know what happened to the hammer in the end. The guy who Sam borrowed it from asked for it back, but I believe they cut away and we didn't see the resolution. 

[Pondlass1]

I thought the auction was stupid. Here's my Costco card!!!   But Dean covering his family jewels as he went through the  x-ray scanner was pretty funny. And why didn't they just take a photo or pencil rubbing of the tablets?  Lugging them about all the time seemed ridiculous.

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

And why didn't they just take a photo or pencil rubbing of the tablets?  Lugging them about all the time seemed ridiculous.

I think there was more to the tablets than what was on the surface, so I don't think rubbings or photos would've worked for them.

[bettername2come]

Lauren Tom will always be Julie from Friends to me. Mrs. Tran is awesome. I like Sam doing the reverse exorcism. I like when the boys are smart. Heh, Agents Neil and Sixx. I want to ask why Kevin would have Blue Book values memorized, but then he could just be bluffing. "No supernaturally flicking the two of you against a wall just for the fun of it." That would be a first. Damn, Mama Tran hit. Can she join the spinoff? Oh, shit, can she join the spinoff?!! Heh, "Do I know you?" to someone who's guest starred before. I discovered that topless Mona Lisa is a real thing. I like the angel refusing to barter souls and offering to help Kevin. I think he's now my second favorite angel.

On 7/26/2017 at 8:28 AM, DittyDotDot said:

We don't know what happened to the hammer in the end. The guy who Sam borrowed it from asked for it back, but I believe they cut away and we didn't see the resolution. 

He kills the guy after asking him where he got the 5/8 of a virgin. There's blood and lightning and then the hammer lands on the guy's clothing. Doesn't seem to pick it up, since we never see it again.

[Wayward Son]

On 09/03/2015 at 3:48 AM, Goldmoon said:

Liked Mrs. Tran.  The auction was funny, and I always like Dean, Sam and Crowley in the same room.  Here is a problem hanging over from last season though.  When Sam and Dean first found the tablet I thought the FIRST thing Sam would do was take out a large thin sheet of paper and take a rubbing.  Since he didn't have that archeological kink, why didn't he take photos of it and store them on his phone, on Dean's phone and on his laptop?  How on earth do they not have a copy of the thing?

Sam and Dean have never actually been in contact with the Demon tablet. The tablet from last season was the Levithian tablet. Kevin first heard of this tablet after Crowley kidnapped him and ordered him to translate it for him. Kevin then goes on the run with it and hides it at a bus station by the time the brothers find it. When they go to the station it has already been kidnapped by Pultus. Then at the auction there was something that prevented them from reading it. So there’s been no opportunity for photo taking :)

 

My personal favourite scenes were

- The Dean and Cas purgatory scene. Even if Benny was there and trying to stir up crap. 

- Mama Tran and Kevin getting the tattoo and her offering her soul for his. She’s such a good mum. 

- Kevin calling Dean out on trying to kill his mum and cutting off an unwanted speech. When you’re happy to let someone kill a possessed Sam then you can talk about “sometimes in this life” until then shut up Dean. At least Kevin had the sense to shut him down unlike 

 

Spoiler

Charlie who listened to a nauseating speech about letting go that Dean himself openly admits he’d never follow.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DeeDee79]

Just rewatched this ep today; one of the handful of ones from season 8 that doesn't make me throw my remote at the screen. I have to say my favorite scene is tied with Sam's reverse exorcism and Dean's Purgatory flashback that motivated his aggression during the interrogation with the prisoner. Also, the splashing of Kevin's mother with holy water by Sam & Dean and her startled expression never fails to make me laugh :)

[catrox14]

I love this episode. It has a special place in my heart because it's the first episode I watched and the Dean and Cas' reunion is the literal first scene of this show I ever saw. I was watching the Arrow premiere on DVR playback and when it ended, it dropped me smack dab into Dean finding Cas by the river and the hug. Not a word of lie, I thought they were a couple reuniting. So my lowkey Destiel shipping comes from that scene and I still ship it. It reminded me of BSG filming style and even the music was kind of like BSG. Never watched another episode until a year later when I binged the show from the beginning.

I love everything about Purgatory. I loved the tattoo scene. Loved Dean's PTSD shit making him so edgy and the transition between that and him looking for Cas. Loved Cas and Benny arguing over Dean. (That's another reason I though they were a couple. I saw a kind of protective Benny, and a jealous BF with Cas. And NO I don't see everything as romantic but I sure do about Dean and Cas (Leave me to my ship)

Edited October 18, 2017 by catrox14

[DeeDee79]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I love everything about Purgatory. I loved the tattoo scene. Loved Dean's PTSD shit making him so edgy and the transition between that and him looking for Cas. Loved Cas and Benny arguing over Dean. (That's another reason I though they were a couple. I saw a kind of protective Benny, and a jealous BF with Cas. And NO I don't see everything as romantic but I sure do about Dean and Cas (Leave me to my ship)

I love Purgatory also & I wished we had gotten more scenes out of it. I should have mentioned the Dean finds Cas scene because I loved that as well. I won't hate on your ship in that scene! Also can't go wrong with Benny! I loved his relationship with Dean almost as much as his relationship with Cas.

 

On 10/15/2017 at 5:23 PM, Wayward Son said:

When you’re happy to let someone kill a possessed Sam then you can talk about “sometimes in this life” until then shut up Dean.

When was Dean happy to let someone kill possessed Sam? I must be having a brain fart because I don't remember this.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, DeeDee79 said:

I love Purgatory also & I wished we had gotten more scenes out of it. I should have mentioned the Dean finds Cas scene because I loved that as well. I won't hate on your ship in that scene! Also can't go wrong with Benny! I loved his relationship with Dean almost as much as his relationship with Cas.

Yup. I love Benny. He was a great friend to Dean and IMO one of the big reasons Dean thought well of Benny is that Benny helped him find Cas. Sure Benny needed Dean to get out but at the same time he didn't have to help Dean. He could have just been like, okay. I'll wait but I'm not helping.

[Wayward Son]

2 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

When was Dean happy to let someone kill possessed Sam? I must be having a brain fart because I don't remember this.

There was never a point Dean was happy to let someone kill a possessed Sam. That is the point I was trying to make. That it would have been pretty hypocritical of Dean to lecture Kevin on how he should just shrug off the fact Dean tried to murder his possessed mother, which is why I’m glad Kevin told him to shut up when he tried to start his “sometimes in this life” speech. 

 

I would bet pretty much anything, if another hunter tried to murder a possessed Sam, or worse still succeeded in actually doing so, Dean’s response wouldn’t be the casual -shrug- “oh well, that’s what happens in this life” he expected of Kevin”. More likely Dean would try to kill the hunter for (trying to) murdering his brother. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Wayward Son

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

There was never a point Dean was happy to let someone kill a possessed Sam. That is the point I was trying to make. That it would have been pretty hypocritical of Dean to lecture Kevin on how he should just shrug off the fact Dean tried to murder his possessed mother, which is why I’m glad Kevin told him to shut up when he tried to start his “sometimes in this life” speech. 

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification; I thought that you were referring to something that had actually occurred on the show. Of course Sam & Dean have murdered vessels occupied by demons numerous times as you yourself have pointed out without regard for the person actually being possessed but I guess Mrs. Tran is different because Dean is the one that made the attempt in this ep. Gotcha.

[Wayward Son]

23 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification; I thought that you were referring to something that had actually occurred on the show. Of course Sam & Dean have murdered vessels occupied by demons numerous times as you yourself have pointed out without regard for the person actually being possessed but I guess Mrs. Tran is different because Dean is the one that made the attempt in this ep. Gotcha.

I have a genuine question for you...

 

If their positions were reversed and Kevin was the one to try and kill a possessed Sam, or worse still actually succeeded in killing a possessed Sam, how do you think Dean would respond? Do you think he’d just shrug it off and be like “Oh, don’t worry about it Kevin. That’s just the way things go in this life” 

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

There was never a point Dean was happy to let someone kill a possessed Sam. That is the point I was trying to make. That it would have been pretty hypocritical of Dean to lecture Kevin on how he should just shrug off the fact Dean tried to murder his possessed mother, which is why I’m glad Kevin told him to shut up when he tried to start his “sometimes in this life” speech. 

 

I would bet pretty much anything, if another hunter tried to murder a possessed Sam, or worse still succeeded in actually doing so, Dean’s response wouldn’t be the casual -shrug- “oh well, that’s what happens in this life” he expected of Kevin”. More likely Dean would try to kill the hunter for (trying to) murdering his brother. 

I don't know about that. IMO, if there was no evidence that Sam could be saved, which is what Dean was convinced of with Mama Tran, then IMO, he would have killed Sam himself and then probably taken his own life because he would have failed to protect Sam.  But Dean's "flippancy' if you will, in this situation, IMO, was more about Dean's PTSD made him kind of willing to jump to conclusions faster than normally. 

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I don't know about that. IMO, if there was no evidence that Sam could be saved, which is what Dean was convinced of with Mama Tran, then IMO, he would have killed Sam himself and then probably taken his own life because he would have failed to protect Sam.  But Dean's "flippancy' if you will, in this situation, IMO, was more about Dean's PTSD made him kind of willing to jump to conclusions faster than normally. 

I think we will have to agree to disagree. IMO based on what we’ve seen his responses would be something along the lines of... 

 

If they tried (but didnt succeed in killing Sam): -shoved them up against the wall and angrily growls- “Don’t you ever try to kill my brother again” 

If they succeeded: All bets are off and a grieving Dean very well could make an attempt to kill him. 

 

But I respect your opinions different :)

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

If they tried (but didnt succeed in killing Sam): -shoved them up against the wall and angrily growls- “Don’t you ever try to kill my brother again” 

If they succeeded: All bets are off and a grieving Dean very well could make an attempt to kill him. 

I'm not understanding you here. It seems like your spectrum is discounting that Dean himself would have made a decision that Sam was beyond saving. Like what he was saying about Mrs. Tran. Why are you not factoring that into this? Or am I completely missing something here? 

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not understanding you here. It seems like your spectrum is discounting that Dean himself would have made a decision that Sam was beyond saving. Like what he was saying about Mrs. Tran. Why are you not factoring that into this? Or am I completely missing something here? 

You’re right that it’s a possibility Dean could realise it himself. I personally don’t think he’d ever write off a possessed Sam as unsalvageable, but that’s JMO. 

However, putting that aside, I was trying to make the two scenarios as similar  as possible. So those are the reactions I would expect if Kevin tried (or succeeded) in killing Sam before Dean could react and do something about it himself. 

 

ETA: @catrox14 I really couldn’t see Dean as writing off Sam in this particular scenario. Not if he had only been possessed for an hour, two at most, and pretty much all of that time was spent in the company of them or Kevin. Perhaps if a demon had been riding Sam for months, or he saw Sam being  wounded in a way he’d die as soon as the possession ended, but definitely not in this scenario. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Hanahope]

On 10/18/2017 at 0:46 AM, Wayward Son said:

You’re right that it’s a possibility Dean could realise it himself. I personally don’t think he’d ever write off a possessed Sam as unsalvageable, but that’s JMO. 

However, putting that aside, I was trying to make the two scenarios as similar  as possible. So those are the reactions I would expect if Kevin tried (or succeeded) in killing Sam before Dean could react and do something about it himself. 

I agree that Dean would move heaven and hell to save Sam (and to some extent, he has).  But for someone he doesn't know, he'd easily knife them without a concern, he does that all the time, even when it has been a relative of someone else he's working with.  Now, someone like say Jody, he'd probably make some good efforts, certainly more than a 'just met' person, but probably not as much as he'd make for Sam.

[DittyDotDot]

11 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I agree that Dean would move heaven and hell to save Sam (and to some extent, he has).  But for someone he doesn't know, he'd easily knife them without a concern, he does that all the time, even when it has been a relative of someone else he's working with.  Now, someone like say Jody, he'd probably make some good efforts, certainly more than a 'just met' person, but probably not as much as he'd make for Sam.

I don't know, I think Dean just looks at it from a different angle. Usually, killing the monster, even if it kills the host, is saving the host. Even if they went back to exorcising the hosts, doesn't stop the demon from possessing someone else nor does it automatically mean the host survives. 

But, in this case, I think it had more to do with who was doing the possessing. It was Crowley and considering all he does throughout this season alone--not to mention before and after--maybe Dean had a point? Both options end in blood for someone; maybe a lot more someones if Mrs. Tran lives? 

That's not to say Dean isn't a hypocrite in this area, just that, he job is hard and there is no perfect answer most the time. So, maybe instead of giving Kevin the "In this life" speech, he should've just said he was sorry and left it at that?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I do love Mama Tran.  She would be awesome in the WS spinoff.  I'd love a scene with her, Jody and Donna.  This is a really good ep, especially for S8.  There's no angry vet, so that makes a big difference.  I thought the first Purgatory flashback segue was still a little rough and out of nowhere, but then it eventually made sense.  I like the guys popping up next to Kevin splashing his mom with holy water.  I don't understand why Dean was so reluctant to go check on her in the first place.  Damn, it's Kevin's MOM.  Interesting how Dean's priorities in S13 would be different.   I especially liked when Mrs. Tran stood up to the Winchesters about going with them. 

I liked in the pawn shop when she's threatening the guy to report him to the tax office and Sam blurts out the tax on the value of the car before Kevin can say it.   

I like Samandriel.  He was a cutie.

The one (two) ridiculous parts were: two perfectly good opportunities to grab the tablet and first Sam and then Dean just stand there and do nothing.  When Sam tackled the Crowley possessed Mrs. Tran, he could have easily ripped it out of her hands while she/he was caught off guard.  But nope - Sam gets up and faces her/him and waits for Crowley to get back to her/his feet and then take off.  That was awfully nice of you Sam, but pretty stupid.  Similarly, after Crowley smoked out and the tablet went skidding across the floor, Dean could have easily scrambled after it and gotten to it before Crowley walked through the door to leisurely pick it up.  I wonder the director didn't realize how stupid either of those times looked in final editing.  Probably too late by then though.  Oh well.  

I thought the auction was an interesting idea and the different forms of 'currency' were also  interesting.  I actually would have liked to see more of that.  

Maybe it was overly expositiony, but I also wondered how Sam made the demon go back into the host, so I appreciated the bit of dialogue about the reverse exorcism.  

[Iju]

On 10/1/2016 at 7:46 PM, DittyDotDot said:

The servant of the God--a.k.a. Mr. Peanut--burned off the tattoo so Crowley could possess her.  

yeah, i was wondering that as well until i had to remind myself of that as well, haha.

---------------------

i'm always ready for some freaking crowley, he pretty much stepped out of the picture in S7 but now he's more prominent. i can't hate him. i don't know what's about him, i just can't. that doesn't mean i don't find him hateable, it's just...i 90% hate him. that 10% is the pizzazz the character has and how well the actor plays him. so yeah, i can't hate him.
 

"I bet...my own soul!" come on now crowley you must be getting very desperate...

[The Companion]

There was a lot more to like about this one. I still hate the flashback storytelling mechanism, though there were some good ones in this episode that I wouldn't strike. I just would have preferred to have some purgatory episodes.

Mrs. Tran was pretty great. I liked the auction, and poor awkward Samdriel. I liked that the Trans didn't trust the angels or the boys to keep them safe.

Random observation: wtf was up with safety deposit box 1 being one column over and in the middle? 😆

[FlickChick]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:54 PM, The Companion said:

I just would have preferred to have some purgatory episodes.

There are many of us here that would have enjoyed that as well. The problem is that the writers won't separate the guys long enough to do, let's say, a purgatory episode and a MOTW. Besides, our other hunter was busy with a vet and a dog. 😞

BTW, I wanted to tell you how much I enjoy reading your posts. I enjoy your insights and it brings me back to my first viewing and how I felt about things - the newness of it all. So thanks for that!

[The Companion]

8 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

There are many of us here that would have enjoyed that as well. The problem is that the writers won't separate the guys long enough to do, let's say, a purgatory episode and a MOTW. Besides, our other hunter was busy with a vet and a dog. 😞

BTW, I wanted to tell you how much I enjoy reading your posts. I enjoy your insights and it brings me back to my first viewing and how I felt about things - the newness of it all. So thanks for that!

I was thinking it was probably nice nostalgia for awhile and maybe now more infuriating for people.  i officially apologize for reopening old wounds. 😆

But seriously, I am so happy to be getting responses from some of y'all. I did this for GOT a few years ago and got almost no responses. It has been great to both see everyone's insight on an episode and to have actual dialogue. I love it. Thanks to everyone who is willing to relive the highs and lows with me.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

But seriously, I am so happy to be getting responses from some of y'all. I did this for GOT a few years ago and got almost no responses. It has been great to both see everyone's insight on an episode and to have actual dialogue. I love it. Thanks to everyone who is willing to relive the highs and lows with me.

It's kind of challenging because there are so many things I'd love to say but can't because I don't want to give spoilers.  I'm pretty sure everyone here who've been reading your comments have been thinking: "oh, but just wait!" or "If you think this is bad, wait till...." or even (to be kind) "don't worry, ... happens in season x and I loved it."  I know I've been sitting on my typing fingers sometimes to stop from saying something I shouldn't. ☺️

Edited December 22, 2019 by ahrtee