S02.E03: Ghost

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

TBD

Streaming on 2022.08.29

Original air date 2022.09.05

[chocolatine]

The "Allison fakes her death" premise doesn't make sense at all. Even if she can get away with assuming another woman's identity without anyone noticing, Kevin will report her missing if she disappears, and there might be a nationwide search for her. She won't officially be "dead" unless there's a body that can be identified as her.

I was hoping that, as she was lying in the freshly dug grave and flashing back to the night she first met Kevin, she would come to the realization that she needs to put on her big girl panties and tell Kevin that she's leaving him. But no, it made her double down on her harebrained plan.

[Spartan Girl]

Patty told Alison to “run for her life” the second she met Kevin, it’s not her fault that she didn’t listen.

I think Patty might be legitimately attracted to Alison. The vibes are getting stronger and stronger.

5 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I was hoping that, as she was lying in the freshly dug grave and flashing back to the night she first met Kevin, she would come to the realization that she needs to put on her big girl panties and tell Kevin that she's leaving him. But no, it made her double down on her harebrained plan.

Just like Kevin.

[chocolatine]

47 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Patty told Alison to “run for her life” the second she met Kevin, it’s not her fault that she didn’t listen.

Yeah, if someone's friends and/or family warn you against dating that person, that's usually a really bad sign. I understand how Allison, at a very young age and vulnerable state right after losing her father, would fall for a guy like Kevin at first. But staying with him and marrying him after learning what kind of man he really was, that's on her.

[Avabelle]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I think Patty might be legitimately attracted to Alison. The vibes are getting stronger and stronger.

I feel they’ve been telegraphing this since last season.

[Harvey]

16 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I think Patty might be legitimately attracted to Alison. The vibes are getting stronger and stronger.

It seems deliberate at this point, with them posting BTS pics like this.

[Avabelle]

Where does Neil live? I thought he lived with Patty.

[Avabelle]

I can’t deal with the police officer patty is dating. Not sure if it’s the actress or what, I can’t connect to her at all.

Anyone else see Douglas Heffernans mother in a lot of the Annie Murphy’s mannerisms and line delivery.

[Cranberry]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:45 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I think Patty might be legitimately attracted to Alison. The vibes are getting stronger and stronger.

On 8/30/2022 at 5:12 AM, Avabelle said:

I feel they’ve been telegraphing this since last season.

Yeah, for sure. When Patty finds Allison drinking and crying in the bathtub and gets in with her, Allison puts her head on Patty's shoulder and Patty gets that gay panic look. (An "Unchained Melody" cover is playing over that scene, and the lyrics are not subtle.) Right after she gets out of there, Patty goes to Tammy's to kiss her and say, "You are the right person. You." It seems like she's trying to convince herself as much as Tammy.

Then in the finale, when Allison gives that "You raised me from the dead. ...Without you..." speech, Patty really looks like she's almost expecting a confession. I don't think she's entirely off base, either, although I'm not sure Allison's figured out her own feelings yet.

I keep thinking about that exchange with the librarian from episode 1x02:

"Um, I was hoping to do some computer research. I'm writing a book."
"Mm."
"It's a romance novel, actually. It's about a woman who's sad. She's very sad, and she just wasted the last 10 years of her life on this terrible marriage. Very pathetic. It's very depressing in the beginning. But, um... but then, one day, she realizes what she wants... truly, and she has this brilliant plan. She keeps playing perfect housewife, but in the meantime-"
"Affair with her neighbor?"
"What? No. She decides to kill her husband."

The "neighbor" bit and Allison calling the book a "romance novel" are pretty specific choices. I'd be amused if they were foreshadowing.

[Cranberry]

This episode gave us some more info on Kevin and Allison's relationship timeline. We know from 1x01 that they're both 35 years old and they've been married for 10 years. The show is set in 2020. The flashbacks of their first meeting are from 2005, when they were both 20, so they dated for five years before getting married. That means that Allison's problems started before she met Kevin and even before her dad's death -- we know that through junior year of high school, she was popular, was on a successful swim team, was widely considered (by everyone but her mother) to have a good chance at going to a college out of state, etc. I'm really curious now about what happened to make her quit the team and isolate herself from everyone.

I'm also wondering about the student loan she mentioned in 1x01; Kevin used it to invest in Neil's failed "Hooters for Butts" business and never paid it back ("Why would I pay it back when you never went to college?"). Clearly she intended to go to college and took steps toward it, but it never happened.

(She also tells Sam in 1x05 that she'd been working at the package store for 16 years, which would predate meeting Kevin by a year, so I'm not sure how the paralegal job he got her fired from fits in there. Also, can a 19-year-old sell liquor? Maybe the writers just messed up.)

It's interesting that Allison's mother only appeared in multicam sitcom world, despite the funeral setting and the unpleasant conversation. Are some people so bad that we're only allowed to see them through the sitcom filter?

[Broderbits]

6 hours ago, Cranberry said:

That means that Allison's problems started before she met Kevin and even before her dad's death

Remember Allison's mother said she was just like her father, who had "lofty ideas". The mother said she had tried to keep him down to earth, which I take from her demeanor to mean she treated him much the way Kevin treats Allison: by scoffing at every "lofty idea" and ridiculing every effort for improvement. By marrying Kevin, Allison unconsciously kept that familiar dynamic; it's like when children of alcoholics marry alcoholics.

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, Cranberry said:

It's interesting that Allison's mother only appeared in multicam sitcom world, despite the funeral setting and the unpleasant conversation. Are some people so bad that we're only allowed to see them through the sitcom filter?

Maybe it’s to represent how before Allison’s life was dominated by a sitcom about an emotionally abusive manchild, it was dominated by a sitcom about an overbearing nagging mother. Another character that shouldn’t be tolerated in real life yet appears perfectly acceptable by sitcom standards.

Furthermore, it shows how Allison used Kevin as an escape from her mother, not knowing she trapped herself all over again. Falling into that open grave couldn’t have been more perfect symbolism.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[TakomaSnark]

8 hours ago, Cranberry said:

Also, can a 19-year-old sell liquor? Maybe the writers just messed up.)

Underage cashiers at grocery stores in Massachusetts are not even allowed to touch alcoholic products while checking out customers, they have to call in a supervisor. I'm not sure what work nineteen-year-old Allison could even perform in a liquor store.

[Avabelle]

Are people rooting for Patry/Allison to get together? I’m not. I like the friendship but the flashback implies there was always more between them and I don’t really buy it. I think It’s just Allison looking to get with the next Person she thinks wilL save her. Patty is a much nicer person than Kevin but I really don’t think the feelings would be legitimate on Alison’s side no matter how much the show tries to convince me.

[DrSpaceman73]

3 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Are people rooting for Patry/Allison to get together? I’m not. I like the friendship but the flashback implies there was always more between them and I don’t really buy it. I think It’s just Allison looking to get with the next Person she thinks wilL save her. Patty is a much nicer person than Kevin but I really don’t think the feelings would be legitimate on Alison’s side no matter how much the show tries to convince me.

No I'm not. 

This reminds me of will and Mike on stranger things. Fans get all into it and push it to try and make it happen but it never will. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by DrSpaceman73

[NoReally]

Am I the only one who thinks Allison wasn't really hit by a door?

I'm still very suspicious of Kevin, since we've only seen him in sitcom-land.

[seacliffsal]

If Patty has feelings for Allison, then that's on her-Allison is a mess (and IMO an annoying mess).  I appreciate Cranberry's timeline as I get totally confused about Allison's background.  Allison had issues well before meeting Kevin (and was that Roz from Frazier as her mom?).  Allison could have taken the identity that Patty found at the mortuary and they could have gotten out of there, but she didn't like the name.  Maybe one of her issues is that she is just never happy with anything.  Have we seen her happy?  Even when she had the affair with Sam I don't know that she was happy.

I wonder what happened to the other friend Kevin had in the bar when he met Allison.  We haven't seen him in any other episode (that I recall) so there may be a lot more back story there.

[Spartan Girl]

I honestly think Allison and Patty shouldn’t be with ANYBODY right now, especially with each other. They’ve both got their own shit to sort through.

[DrSpaceman73]

2 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

If Patty has feelings for Allison, then that's on her-Allison is a mess (and IMO an annoying mess).  I appreciate Cranberry's timeline as I get totally confused about Allison's background.  Allison had issues well before meeting Kevin (and was that Roz from Frazier as her mom?).  Allison could have taken the identity that Patty found at the mortuary and they could have gotten out of there, but she didn't like the name.  Maybe one of her issues is that she is just never happy with anything.  Have we seen her happy?  Even when she had the affair with Sam I don't know that she was happy.

I wonder what happened to the other friend Kevin had in the bar when he met Allison.  We haven't seen him in any other episode (that I recall) so there may be a lot more back story there.

That was peri Gilpin as her mom. Totally missed that. 

[cardigirl]

I don't get all the hate for Tammy, really. I applaud her dislike of Allison's hold over Patty. I see it as not so much jealousy but trying to figure out what is really going on there with Allison and Patty. Which goes back to me thinking it's less of a romance with Patty and more of a surveillance? 

She may truly be interested in Patty as a romantic partner, but I also think she's been suspicious of Allison's involvement in the drugs crimes, and may see staying close to Patty as a means to solving the crime. 

I liked this episode a bit better that the first two. 

And it looks like they are definitely going to go the route of showing Kevin as not only neglectful, self-centered, and a narcissist, but also as a physical abuser. 

Interesting that Tammy is about the same in the sit-com world as she is in the "real" world. 

[Barbarblacksheep]

On 9/5/2022 at 7:52 PM, TakomaSnark said:

Underage cashiers at grocery stores in Massachusetts are not even allowed to touch alcoholic products while checking out customers, they have to call in a supervisor. I'm not sure what work nineteen-year-old Allison could even perform in a liquor store.

I might be giving the writers too much credit, but they don't strike me as not having a grip on continuity. Can 19-year-olds work as stockers in a liquor store? I'm assuming they can put the product on the shelf, but not sell it? And perhaps she was doing that part-time before becoming a cashier? However, I'm not sure where the "paralegal" jobs fits into all this. I'm probably over-thinking this, but I'm still wondering if there's some kind of alternate timeline we'll be introduced to at some point. Maybe it has something to do with the Allison "hitting her head at a water park" thing mentioned last season. I don't know, though. I really hate sloppy writing (*cough* The Connors *cough*) so I hope that's not it.

On 9/1/2022 at 11:23 AM, Avabelle said:

Where does Neil live? I thought he lived with Patty.

I was wondering the same thing. Does he live in the house but on another floor? (I vaguely remember Patty saying something to him once about "we'll be downstairs".) Is he in the attic? Basement? But I noticed in this episode when he left (after skulking around Patty's...uh, living quarters at 4am), he left by the front door. It's confusing.

[racked]

17 minutes ago, Barbarblacksheep said:

I was wondering the same thing. Does he live in the house but on another floor? (I vaguely remember Patty saying something to him once about "we'll be downstairs".) Is he in the attic? Basement? But I noticed in this episode when he left (after skulking around Patty's...uh, living quarters at 4am), he left by the front door. It's confusing.

He called it a duplex, which I took to mean what we call a 2 family house/mother daughter house in New York. But the lighting is always so dark in the Patty scenes I can’t tell where they are. 

[Cranberry]

21 minutes ago, Barbarblacksheep said:

Maybe it has something to do with the Allison "hitting her head at a water park" thing mentioned last season. I don't know, though.

I've been wondering if they'll tell us more about the water park incident! Pete's line from 1x08 is: "Is this Fun Allison rearing her ugly head? I thought she drowned in that water park eight years ago." That would have been two years into her marriage, when she was 27. I don't know if he meant a literal near-drowning... we know she was an excellent swimmer in high school, with her team placing second at Nationals. The whole thing is weird.

 

[TakomaSnark]

1 hour ago, Barbarblacksheep said:

I might be giving the writers too much credit, but they don't strike me as not having a grip on continuity. Can 19-year-olds work as stockers in a liquor store? I'm assuming they can put the product on the shelf, but not sell it? And perhaps she was doing that part-time before becoming a cashier? However, I'm not sure where the "paralegal" jobs fits into all this. I'm probably over-thinking this, but I'm still wondering if there's some kind of alternate timeline we'll be introduced to at some point. Maybe it has something to do with the Allison "hitting her head at a water park" thing mentioned last season. I don't know, though. I really hate sloppy writing (*cough* The Connors *cough*) so I hope that's not it.

It's not just underage cashiers that can't handle beer or wine in grocery stores, underage baggers can't touch the products either, even to just move them down the belt and into a bag/cart. I assume this regulation precludes anyone underage being employed in a liquor store, even if it is just stocking boxes. The state is rather strict about this. I can't think of a position in a liquor store that would enable the employee to simply never touch the inventory. Even a janitor will have to clean up broken bottles/spills.

[TakomaSnark]

51 minutes ago, racked said:

He called it a duplex, which I took to mean what we call a 2 family house/mother daughter house in New York. But the lighting is always so dark in the Patty scenes I can’t tell where they are. 

And Worcester is filled with duplexes, many that accommodate three families/apartments. I assume Patty and Neil have different apartments in the same housing unit.

[possibilities]

22 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Are people rooting for Patry/Allison to get together? I’m not.... I think It’s just Allison looking to get with the next Person she thinks wilL save her. 

I see the attraction on Patty's part, but I am not rooting for them to get together. I agree with your ideas about Allison seeking a savior. Or, to put it another way, she's not used to anyone treating her nicely and it feels amazing and she gloms on to it like a lifeline.

[Cranberry]

I'd be fine with them ending up together in the future, but right now they both need to be single for a while -- Allison needs to learn to be self-reliant, and Patty needs to stop letting people walk all over her. 

[Barbarblacksheep]

11 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

And Worcester is filled with duplexes, many that accommodate three families/apartments. I assume Patty and Neil have different apartments in the same housing unit.

Ah! I did hear Patti refer to her living quarters as an "apartment", which confused me further at the time. This explains it. Thank you.

[AgathaC]

17 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I've been wondering if they'll tell us more about the water park incident! Pete's line from 1x08 is: "Is this Fun Allison rearing her ugly head? I thought she drowned in that water park eight years ago." That would have been two years into her marriage, when she was 27. I don't know if he meant a literal near-drowning... we know she was an excellent swimmer in high school, with her team placing second at Nationals. The whole thing is weird.

 

Me too! That was such a specific comment that it really stuck out for me. Even fabulous swimmers can have accidents. But given what we’ve seen of Kevin, his crazy antics and his utter lack of concern or consideration for others, I figured maybe one of his hairbrained schemes nearly got her killed. Or she had a legit accident unrelated to his actions and he either didn’t care or didn’t notice.

It just feels like there’s so much backstory . We’re getting pieces of it, but I hope there’s time to address these little clues they throw out. I’ve been burned before.

[Whimsy]

On 9/5/2022 at 10:52 PM, TakomaSnark said:

Underage cashiers at grocery stores in Massachusetts are not even allowed to touch alcoholic products while checking out customers, they have to call in a supervisor. I'm not sure what work nineteen-year-old Allison could even perform in a liquor store.

21 hours ago, Barbarblacksheep said:

I might be giving the writers too much credit, but they don't strike me as not having a grip on continuity. Can 19-year-olds work as stockers in a liquor store? I'm assuming they can put the product on the shelf, but not sell it? And perhaps she was doing that part-time before becoming a cashier? However, I'm not sure where the "paralegal" jobs fits into all this. I'm probably over-thinking this, but I'm still wondering if there's some kind of alternate timeline we'll be introduced to at some point. Maybe it has something to do with the Allison "hitting her head at a water park" thing mentioned last season. I don't know, though. I really hate sloppy writing (*cough* The Connors *cough*) so I hope that's not it.

I was wondering the same thing. Does he live in the house but on another floor? (I vaguely remember Patty saying something to him once about "we'll be downstairs".) Is he in the attic? Basement? But I noticed in this episode when he left (after skulking around Patty's...uh, living quarters at 4am), he left by the front door. It's confusing.

Actually, 18 year olds can sell alcohol in Massachusetts. My daughter and I worked at the concession stands at Gillette stadium (cheerleading fundraiser) and she was 18 so she could actually pour drafts. Kids under 18 in grocery stores, etc, do have  to call a supervisor/someone older to ring it through the checkout. 

19 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

And Worcester is filled with duplexes, many that accommodate three families/apartments. I assume Patty and Neil have different apartments in the same housing unit.

Worcester mostly has “triple deckers”. Less duplex’s but I’m sure there’s some. But, those pics are all triple deckers. 

[Starchild]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:06 PM, cardigirl said:

Interesting that Tammy is about the same in the sit-com world as she is in the "real" world. 

Good point. It's like, when Kevin is around, everyone bends and conforms to his expectations, for some reason no one has yet verbalized beyond "I always get what I want."

But Tammy is so new to the group dynamic that she hasn't experienced this "force" yet, so she doesn't.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Starchild